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Julian Castro, Mayor of San Antonio, Texas, delivers the keynote address during the first day of the Democratic National Convention in Charlotte, North Carolina, September 4, 2012.   REUTERS/Jason Reed
There will soon be lots of politicians like San Antonio Mayor Julian Castro leading the way in Texas
Two interesting data points today. First is this:
Petitions for secession filed from Louisiana and Texas [on the White House petition site] have already received well over 10,000 signatures. Per the website's own rules, petitions that garner 25,000 signatures or more within 30 days require a response from the Obama administration.
The Texas petition has well exceeded 25,000 signatures, which means the White House has to respond.

Then there was this:

"In not too many years, Texas could switch from being all Republican to all Democrat,” [Texas Senator-elect Ted Cruz] said. “If that happens, no Republican will ever again win the White House. New York and California are for the foreseeable future unalterably Democrat. If Texas turns bright blue, the Electoral College math is simple. We won’t be talking about Ohio, we won’t be talking about Florida or Virginia, because it won’t matter. If Texas is bright blue, you can’t get to two-seventy electoral votes. The Republican Party would cease to exist. We would become like the Whig Party. Our kids and grandkids would study how this used to be a national political party. ‘They had Conventions, they nominated Presidential candidates. They don’t exist anymore.'"
That's true. As I wrote in May:
Out of Laredo's 24,788 students, just 81 are Anglo. In Houston, just 8 percent of public schoolchildren are white, and that number is 5 percent in Dallas. In Fort Bend, 40 percent of kids were white in 2000. Today, it's 19 percent. Lubbok went from 42 percent to 28 percent.

In the entire state, 43.1 percent of public schoolchildren were Anglo in 2000, compared to just 30.5 percent. And if Republicans are hoping that those are undocumented immigrants, turns out that just 5.4 percent of Texans lack the proper paperwork. Yes, that's a serious number—1.2 million—but it won't save them in the long term.

Latinos are brown, and they're young, and if there's one thing Republicans can't deal with right now, it's young and brown. The only saving grace for Texas Anglos is that those Latinos are really young. But that won't last forever. Those kids grow up.

So Texans conservatives (you know, those "patriots") want to secede. I say, sure! Go for it! Take your Texas, and your two Republican senators, and your 24-12 House delegation (with its +12 boost for the Republican majority) and play at being an independent country for a few years. Maybe a decade.

And then you can all come back once Latinos have taken over the joint to help deliver even bigger Blue majorities.

Sound like a deal?

In the alternative, you can remain a part of America, respect this thing called "democracy," and brace yourself like you've never braced yourself. Because Texas is going to look like California some day. And that day is coming up fast.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I was going to make a "young and brown" joke... (42+ / 0-)

    ... about how that phrasing is emblematic of the GOP's chances disappearing down a swirling bowl, but I think I'll just skip it.

  •  You should write the WH's response... (31+ / 0-) the Texas petition.  Especially since you've just written it.

    You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

    by Rich in PA on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:33:52 AM PST

  •  And that's why we have a new George Bush... (14+ / 0-)

    George Prescott Bush, you know, one of the "little brown ones" filing to be a candidate in Texas the day after the election. For governor? Congress?

    •  well, I don't think Latinos are willing to (8+ / 0-)

      go for bullshit just because it's coming out of a brown person's mouth. Republicans would like to think Latinos are that stupid, but they're not.

      Studies show that Latinos like their government, they like Obamacare, they like Pell grants, they like it when they pay taxes and the government does stuff for them in return.

      It's not like they'll believe black people are a bunch of welfare grubbing scrubs and all the other Republican racist bullshit just 'cause George P Bush whatever says it.

      And while we're on about Latinos, let's not forget that 48 percent of Cuban Americans are now voting Democrat. Cuban Americans know what they Republicans are about. Half of them ain't buyin' it!

      My name is X. I'm a semi-military black woman and I voted for Barack Obama.

      by tha puddin on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:11:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Another spoiled brat -- with an arrest but (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chuco35, a2nite

      not prosecuted because he was son of a sitting governor, nephew of president, grandson of president........yada yada.

      De fund + de bunk = de EXIT--->>>>>

      by Neon Mama on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:27:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  But when? I keep reading that Texas is going to go (21+ / 0-)

    blue in 4 years, or 8 years, or 12 years, but then we never see any sign of Democratic gains in the state.

    •  Many a Tex. Dem. candidate has gone to his (15+ / 0-)

      poitical grave counting on the latino vote to show up....this time.

    •  It will be a spartan flip (10+ / 0-)

      give it time, it will be an all of a sudden. If you look at the election results over the last decade, you see voter numbers increasing and trending towards us.

      --Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day. - Thomas Jefferson--

      by idbecrazyif on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:38:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  You aren't looking very hard. (3+ / 0-)

      "I believe more women should carry guns. I believe armed women will make the world a better place. Women need to come to think of themselves not as victims but as dangerous." Anna Pigeon

      by glorificus on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:41:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I have to agree (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      v2aggie2, aeroplane

      I keep reading here about how "Texas is turning purple" but every election, the Democrats seem to lose by a bigger landslide then the one before it.  I guess I got to see progress to believe it.

    •  You mean back to blue. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tamar, entrelac, Neon Mama, pademocrat

      The Republican takeover occurred with the Romney phenomenon in the 80s.  First Repub governor was Clayton Williams.  We're trying to oust these usurpers, but it didn't help things when Rove teamed up with Cokie McCokespoon.

      "It's not like lightning or earthquakes. We've got a bad thing made by men, and by God that's something we can change." John Steinbeck

      by Snarky McAngus on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:45:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  funny, i've always heard "in a generation" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      "See? I'm not a racist! I have a black friend!"

      by TheHalfrican on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:57:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Consider how rapidly Texas flipped D to R (6+ / 0-)

      ...back in the early 90s, and 1994 in particular.  The reverse could happen with stunning swiftness when and if demographics reach a critical point and Latinos become more aware and motivated to exert their power at the voting booth.  Apparently, that's part of what happened this time around elsewhere in the 2012 Presidential election: political consciousness and motivation are growing against the dwindling angry older white male former majority.

      •  the D to R... (0+ / 0-)

        flip might have happened quickly but that's no different then what happened in every other single southern state. The south was tepid to national Democrats but local Dems were entrenched and seemed conservative enough and at times racist enough to hold on to power.

    •  I look at some data, and Obama got 44% in 2008 (7+ / 0-)

      but only 41% this time, so his support went down.

      2012 - Obama 41%
      2008 - Obama 44%
      2004 - Kerry 38%
      2000 - Gore 38%
      1996 - Clinton 44%
      1992 - Clinton 37%

      I don't see an obvious trend line toward Democratic gains here.

      •  Obama did not campaign in TX (9+ / 0-)

        and in fact, OFA had Texas volunteers working to flip the swing states.

        It was hard and depressing to NOT be working so much in our own backyard but the overall campaign strategy for Obama was to have all hands working the swing states.

        There is a lot of excitement on the ground here for up and coming young (and latino) Democrats, and the energy to work in state is growing.

        That the the slide in TX is only 3% given how much energy was spent shoring up the swing states is rather encouraging.

        Locally, we shipped a tea bagger (Canseco) back home and have a Democrat back in the 23rd Congressional District...a great flip for this cycle! We have a lot to do though...the downballot races were terrible in many cases. But the energy is building and with Julian Castro getting such prominence, the party will hopefully be putting lots more funding into supporting the state Democrats.

        "one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress" -- John Adams

        by blue armadillo on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 09:03:13 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  well (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        entrelac, ball911

        Obama didn't campaign or spend any money in Texas.

        Look at the demographics of the state:
        - 27% of the state population is under 18 years old,
        - black persons make 12% of the population
        - persons of hispanic or latino origin make 38%

        Census 2000:
        - white - 52.4%
        - latino - 32%

        Census 2010:
        - white - 44.8%
        - latino - 38%

        It's Always Darkest Before the Dawn

        by Friar on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 09:18:52 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well Done (0+ / 0-)

          The numbers cited above are virtually meaningless since there is no campaign in Texas and little effort to turn out Dem voters or to sign up new voters en masse.  When the time comes that a real effort is made in Texas, then we will see where the state actually stands.  Most don't understand the size and cost of going after Texas full force.

    •  It will take another 1994 (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bwintx, blackjackal, Lawrence

      The 1994 elections were a disaster for Democrats and really inaugurated the roughly equal standing the two parties have had nationally since then.  While Reagan and G.H.W. Bush had just finished 12 years in the White House, Republicans hadn't made many inroads into the U.S. House or state houses.  Prior to 1994 it had been four decades since Republicans had a majority in the U.S. House(!) and it had also been several decades since Republicans controlled a majority of state governorships and legislatures.  A lot of this had to with a significant portion of the South flipping from nominal Ds to actual Rs that year.  But it also had to do with a change in the electorate.  While they certainly had a seat at the table during Reagan and G.H.W. Bush, 1994 saw an explosion in turnout by white evangelical Protestants as a unified group supporting the Republican Party; somewhere between 27% and 33% of the voters that year were WEPs---a significant increase over even 1992.  Their numbers had risen along with their group consciousness over several years (along with a simultaneous decline in the number of non-evangelical white Protestants), and in 1994 they finally flexed their electoral muscle, to the detriment of the country and the world.  They have remained a consistent voting block, turning out in large numbers for Rs ever since.

      I think what we're looking for is a "Latino 1994," where Latino turnout, which is now less than 50%, rises a bit and that community actually flexes its potentially very strong electoral muscle.  Given the Latino community's growing numbers, absolutely and as a percentage of the population and electorate, a rise in turn-out to even 55% (following a catalyst, say, comprehensive immigration reform?) would be, given recent voting trends, devastating to the Republican Party all over the place but especially in Texas.

    •  Poco a poco. This year Democrats got 7 seats (7+ / 0-)

      back in the state house to end the Republican supermajority.  They held their senate seats.  No, there wasn't a tsunami, but progress is being made.

    •  Texas Latinos don't register/vote (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Latinos in Texas don't register to vote, or vote, at nearly the rate of Latinos in, say, California. We need to support our Texas brothers and sisters in a grassroots effort to get Latinos to the polls. We've got the power. We need to use it.

    •  When Latino Texans decide (0+ / 0-)

      it's their time.  Their numbers keep going up and the Democratic Party is undoubtedly their vehicle, but there's a collective decision/feeling of some kind that it's not time yet engage the contest for control of the state in earnest.

      The next big turn in popular cultural and political generations in American society will likely be in 2018/19/20.  We had one in evidence in 1918-20, the next in the midst of WW2 i.e. around 1943, an obvious one in 1968, and the latest one in 1993/94.  Each of these had a couple of years of run up.

      The 1968-93ish period was politically basically all about White Americans.  As a white person, I found it mostly nauseatingly narcissistic and horribly banal.  But a lot of low status white ethnic groups that felt inferior and marginal and separatist became assertive and involved and mainstream.  

      1993ish to present has been fundamentally a period of grossly excessive obsessing and politicking about and with Definitely Not White Americans, i.e. African- and Middle Eastern- and Asian-Americans.  And these groups have become politically active and selfconfident and assertive and responsible about their share of power and say in American society.  How much more integrated into the (still) heavily white mainstream is hard to say at this point (this takes time and lots of outmarrying), but undoubtedly more assimilated and less fractious and combative.  This set of arguments is past peak and more or less decided, with everyone tired of it now and nothing novel to shock and upset them.  I give it five to ten years of slowly petering out and people quietly doing the right things- of no longer taking as much offense and no longer giving as much, and thereafter no longer having the terrible anxieties and fears about each other as in the past.

      Anyway, the point: around 2018-19-20 the current set of issues and arguments and major player groups in domestic politics will be exhausted and pretty much done and will fade.  Another generational change in the culture much like ones in 1968-69 and the early/mid Nineties is inevitable- and with it new groups ascendant, and new popular art and fashions, and new/different thinking.

      It's hard not to see Latino culture and social and political power and Latino issues be what finds its time and opportunity then, there probably being a kind of vacuum in these in American public life at that point.  White and black American pop culture are already running in ruts now.  The voters and tweens of the 2020s will be ever more heavily Latino or part Latino and increasing in total and relative numbers.   Who/what will be there to stop them?  I don't see what other than really untenable reactionary stupidity.  

      Given that, maybe it really is wisest for Latinos to wait a bit longer to be openly assertive and (in Latino eyes) let white and black Americans hash out their dreary internal and legacy problems (relative to Latinos) for a while longer.

      I think all of us here now will be quite surprised by how quickly and thoroughly a modern Latino culture and Latino people will be ascendant throughout U.S. society in the 2020s and 2030s.  Texas, Schmexas...what's coming is a lot bigger than just a change of who runs Texas.

  •  I know progressives in a small, red county (34+ / 0-)

    in Texas who are registering Latino voters every year. They have set themselves goals for each year with the intent of turning their county blue. I think they can do it just with the Latino vote alone. Their Letters to the Editor program is just icing on the cake.

  •  Sure, go ahead and seceed.. (16+ / 0-)

    As long as I can be airlifted out of Dallas and granted asylum in CA..

    "This ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no foolin' around..."

    by cgvjelly on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:34:25 AM PST

    •  Yes the US can provide asylum to those who want (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      doingbusinessas, annieli

      out of Texas.  A great jobs program would be to build new towns in other states for those who wish to leave any state that has decided to secede.

      Follow PA Keystone Liberals on Twitter: @KeystoneLibs

      by wishingwell on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:44:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I vote against secession for several reasons, but (6+ / 0-)

      the main one is all the decent citizens, Latinos and others (mayor of Houston anyone?) who would then be quickly disenfranchised by the white/Republican/crazy hierarchy in the state. They need our protection!
      I would also like to point out that Texas has produced some of our most beloved heroes -- Molly Ivins, Jim Hightower.
      And what about Austin?
      I was born in Texas, left at 3 mos of age, and my only contact with that state in the 64 years since is when I hitchhiked through on my way to Mexico. But I think there is value even in a disgruntled, difficult and dyspeptic state like Texas.
      Come on folks -- is Texas really worse than Mississippi or Alabama or South Carolina. I don't think so!

      We're not perfect, but they're nuts! -- Barney Frank

      by Tamar on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:58:08 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Or (0+ / 0-)

      we just keep a small part of north Texas so that Dallas is ours.  I <3 that city so much I can't see it leave.

      •  Houston and Austin will want the same deal n/t (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative. --Martin Luther King Jr.

        by Egalitare on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:24:51 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The brush country south of the Nueces (0+ / 0-)

          River, with Laredo as its capitol, and a warm water outlet from Corpus to Brownsville.

          But no deal unless we get to keep the military bases as is. And you guys up north keep all the national debt.

          "Force is as pitiless to the man who possesses it, or thinks he does, as it is to its victims; the second it crushes, the first it intoxicates.” Simone Weil

          by chuco35 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:55:04 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Or, to paraphrase someone whose name (4+ / 0-)

    I forget, Texas Republicans could promise to be to the left of Ted Kennedy on immigrant rights.

  •  when the gop has to fight for texas (8+ / 0-)

    it's game over.

    i suggest we find a nice european country to repatriate these disgruntled euro-americans. if any will have them.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:35:29 AM PST

  •  Blue Texas = dustbin of history for R party. (6+ / 0-)

    Oh, the huge manatee!

    You have exactly 10 seconds to change that look of disgusting pity into one of enormous respect!

    by Cartoon Peril on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:36:08 AM PST

  •  Can we keep Austin? (13+ / 0-)

    No sense in punishing Austinites duing the transition

    •  Austin can be part of the United States , I like (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annieli, Womantrust, loblolly

      that idea. ...the rest can go and progressives and moderates will flee to Austin and we can welcome the others into our towns and cities and even build some new towns and businesses.

      Follow PA Keystone Liberals on Twitter: @KeystoneLibs

      by wishingwell on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:46:47 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You're making it sound like West Berlin (10+ / 0-)

        Do you foresee an airlift?

      •  Do you like that idea (3+ / 0-)

        because Austin is mostly white, and the other parts of Texas that are shining bright blue are mostly made up of "brown" people? That is the only reason I can see for making an exception for Austin, but not the Rio Grande Valley, Houston, El Paso, Dallas, San Antonio, oh hell, about half of the voting population.

        But hey, throwing over 25 million people, just under half of whom are not white, under the bus is okay if 60,000 angry white people sign a petition.

        •  Oh, you're so full of (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          numbers, and math, and factgs and stuff!

          Thenks (from Dallas).

          I'm part of the "bedwetting bunch of website Democrat base people (DKos)." - Rush Limbaugh, 10/16/2012 Torture is Wrong! We live near W so you don't have to. Send love.

          by tom 47 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 10:55:01 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I know very little about Austin or Texas, was (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          just responding to the persno who asked if blue Austin could be excluded and not part of Texas.  I am sorry if I offended anyone when joking around about this.

          Follow PA Keystone Liberals on Twitter: @KeystoneLibs

          by wishingwell on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:49:47 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Thanks for posting this. (0+ / 0-)

            Seriously, it shows you are a better person than what that initial post implied as well as displaying humility. It is damned rare in this age of cyberspace pseudo-anonymity and should be commended when observed so have a rec too.

            BTW, I see you are in PA based on your signature. Keep up the good fight. I saw more stars and bars traveling through central PA than in some equally red parts of east TX. Needless to say I was a little confused considering the geography. We all gotta work to turn the whole country blue.

    •  Exactly. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      No Hate in 08, Odysseus, fuzzyguy

      And our country (Jefferson), despite all the racism, went for Obama.  We have a very active Progressive Democrat group here.

    •  Might have to build... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Red Bean

      ...the Austin Wall if we did that.  That's OK, we could airlift in supplies.

      Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power -- Benito Mussolini

      by drcraigphd on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:49:26 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I like this comment from cardinal (9+ / 0-)
      Nice work. I seldom rec (10+ / 0-)

      diaries with this much vitriol directed at a fellow progressive -- but, after reading his interview here a few weeks ago (after which I had to take a break from the site to avoid flaming out), I'd say it's well deserved.

      I've never seen overt racism from the South bashers. However, their arguments often carry tacit premises that have unpleasant racial undertones when unpacked. The classic one about Texas always goes something like:


      Yeah, fuck 'em. Let 'em secede or fall into the Gulf or whatever. We can keep Austin, though. It's a small sea of sanity amid a big red cesspool of human filth.
      Why Austin, though? Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and El Paso all voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012; so what distinguishes Austin from them? Oh yeah -- it's the only one with a preponderance of White Democrats. If you don't accept the racial implication, then perhaps it's the only one with large numbers of college-educated Democrats, or hipsters, or whatever. But that still sounds pretty douchey.

      by cardinal on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 09:43:25 PM CST

       [ Reply to This ]

      •  What you said! (0+ / 0-)

        It'd be nice if real facts, information, numbers, and math could guide ill-though-out opinions sometimes.  And we've heard the same ol' crap here, again, AND FROM SOME OF THE SAME FOLKS.

        Ya, basta!

        I'm part of the "bedwetting bunch of website Democrat base people (DKos)." - Rush Limbaugh, 10/16/2012 Torture is Wrong! We live near W so you don't have to. Send love.

        by tom 47 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 10:57:41 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  You know Austin isn't the only blue city in TX (17+ / 0-)

      Dallas, Houston, San Antonio proper are all blue too as well as the entire valley.  Sure all of those are blue because of being minority majority populations instead of white college educated populations but they blue and I would hope people would see them as equally as valuable.    

      I just really bristle that every time anyone talks about Texas that they don't acknowledge the other cities besides Austin that are blue.  It denigrates the other blue areas of the state.

      For example did you know the county of Dallas has a Lesbian Hispanic Sheriff?  That the city of Houston has a Lesbian mayor, one of the first openly gay mayors of a major city in the United States?

      Just something to think about about before write off the entire state besides Austin.

      •  I gave up on trying to inform the haters (7+ / 0-)

        along time ago. That's when I learned that not even progressive blogs are immune from bullshit.
        Texas never had a deal to seceed. It could break-up into 5 states, but that withered on the vine long ago.
        The Austin-San Antonio corridor is frozen blue. We never laid down with the rest of the dogs and we ain't got no fleas. When it all starts to flip, this will have been from where it started.

        Fuck Big Brother...from now on, WE'RE watching.

        by franklyn on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:30:21 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, but Austin is white and blue. (0+ / 0-)

        Those "other" cities/regions are brown and blue, but hey, progressives can't be racist you know, because, ummm orange squiggles!

        The bullshit does stink a bit on this site when the south comes up. I really do wish Markos would do more to quash the regional bigotry nonsense, especially since it has undertones of racism.

        •  Again, (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lawrence, fuzzyguy, divineorder

          what you said.

          Don't forget the Dallas County DA, Craig Watkins.  Known nationally and INTERNATIONALLY for 25 DNA-and other evidence-based capital case exonerations.

          And our Latina lesbian COUNTY Sheriff will now be on  her THIRD TERM after cleaning up the mess in the County jail left by decades of GOP good ol' boy petty corrupt predecessors.

          Secede, my ass!

          I'm part of the "bedwetting bunch of website Democrat base people (DKos)." - Rush Limbaugh, 10/16/2012 Torture is Wrong! We live near W so you don't have to. Send love.

          by tom 47 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 11:03:11 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  best bumper sticker (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      scott5js, llywrch, pademocrat

      i've seen recently:

      travis county: seceed from texas

      If only Michael Phelps hadn't smoked that pot...imagine what he could have accomplished with motivation and good lung capacity.

      by papa monzano on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:28:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  i'm picturing (0+ / 0-)

        dallas, houston, SA, Austin and the valley connected by high-speed rail...long beautiful elevated rails passing over the conservative areas of the state (though the trains will probably need to be armored underneath since the locals that seceed might be of a mind to shoot at them giant sky-snakes...)

        If only Michael Phelps hadn't smoked that pot...imagine what he could have accomplished with motivation and good lung capacity.

        by papa monzano on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:31:02 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  How about Dallas County? (0+ / 0-)

      Or Bexar, or Harris ? They all went for Obama.
      Hell, Dallas was a clean sweep for the Dems in County Gov.

      Putting on the spectacles of science in expectation of finding an answer to everything looked at signifies inner blindness. -- J(ames) Frank Dobie

      by cactusflinthead on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 02:14:53 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Look like California? (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Red Bean, Churchill, annieli, askew, pademocrat

    I think we'll need a little more rain.

  •  Lets start a Texas Secession Fund. Im in$$$$$$ (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Churchill, wishingwell
  •  GOP anti latino rhetoric up since election. (7+ / 0-)

    Every GOP and/or conservative post mortem uses rhetoric that excludes latinos and others from the "real america" and insinuates the most base and selfish motives for their votes.   Before the GOP can even consider latinos as GOPers, they have to internalize that latinos are americans just as much as anyone else.  

    One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

    by Inland on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:37:00 AM PST

  •  Stop sugar coating it (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Churchill, Notreadytobenice

    Tell it like it is.

  •  One of the biggest challenges Jeff Davis faced (15+ / 0-)

    in his leadership of the confederacy was that some states felt that they had the right to secede from the confederacy as well (in a not entirely unrelated move West Virginia seceded from Virginia to become a state). So what next after Texas secedes from the US, East Texas secedes from Texas? Houston secedes from East Texas? Tom Delay secedes from Houston? Tom secedes from Delay?

    There's a reason the Articles of Confederation were replaced by the Constitution.

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:37:04 AM PST

    •  Sovereign Citizens Whackjobs Seccede Individually (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      entrelac, mightymouse, Aquarius40, Miggles

      They try it now, and end up in roadside shootouts with cops mostly because they are so foaming at the mouth crazy.

      There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

      by bernardpliers on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:40:30 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm not sure Tod DeLay is still in TX. (0+ / 0-)

      "I believe more women should carry guns. I believe armed women will make the world a better place. Women need to come to think of themselves not as victims but as dangerous." Anna Pigeon

      by glorificus on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:42:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  There is that thing... (0+ / 0-)

      ...about being able to choose to split into 5 pieces.  Maybe they can try that and create their own United States of Texas.

      Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power -- Benito Mussolini

      by drcraigphd on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:53:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  A point that Lincoln made. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kovie, entrelac, mightymouse, pademocrat

      If everyone has the right to secede where does it end?

      For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

      by Anne Elk on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:13:33 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  When a racist authoritarian hypocrite says so (0+ / 0-)

        Didn't you get the memo about how democracy works? It's a political system meant to preserve and protect the prerogatives of racist white rich men.

        You know, FreeDumb!

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:20:09 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Did Ireland not have the right to secede (0+ / 0-)

        from the United Kingdom?  Did India not have the right to secede from the British Empire?  Did the Thirteen Colonies not have the right to secede from the British Empire?

        The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

        by lysias on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 09:25:48 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Ireland and India were forced to become (0+ / 0-)

          a part of the British Empire and so had the moral if not legal right to secede from it. The colonies were founded by that same empire so their right to secede derived from elsewhere. I see it as the difference between a slave running away from his owner to seek freedom, and an employee quitting and breaking his contract because he believes the employer violated it first.

          "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

          by kovie on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 10:22:37 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  And the southern states' seceding (0+ / 0-)

          is more in line with the latter, but with far less legal or moral plausibility since the US didn't really violate any laws or agreements.

          "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

          by kovie on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 10:23:40 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  What laws or agreements had King George's (0+ / 0-)

            government violated?

            The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

            by lysias on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 11:07:10 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Imposed taxes w/o colonial input (0+ / 0-)

              Being forced to quarter troops sent their to oppress them. Not being allowed to organize politically and militarily. Not having a written constitution, there was room for debate on whether these were illegal or not.

              But basically, the notion that the colonies had no say in what laws or taxes were imposed on them or how they were governed.

              "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

              by kovie on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 11:13:14 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Anyway, my point was that it's wrong to argue (0+ / 0-)

            that, if you allow secession anywhere, you allow it everywhere.  Because secession is sometimes right.

            The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

            by lysias on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 11:08:41 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  No. They didn't. (0+ / 0-)

          Rights are rights to the extent they are recognized to be so. In all of those examples, a long and often bitter struggle was waged to establish the right of secession. To the extent that the Civil War determined by force of arms that no right to secede existed in the USA, no right of secession exists. If, however, Texans were prepared to wage a war of independence or struggle through massive civil disobedience to assert such a right, then perhaps the rest of the country might be persuaded to grant Texas such an asserted right. But I doubt whether such an endeavor would gain much support in Texas or any other State. We are, therefore, condemned to remain a fractious national family.

          For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

          by Anne Elk on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 10:42:54 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Did the USSR's suppression of the Hungarian (0+ / 0-)

            revolution and the Prague spring determine that no member of the Warsaw Pact could leave it?

            The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

            by lysias on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 11:25:46 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Did the British suppression of the Great Mutiny (0+ / 0-)

            establish that India had no right to leave the British Empire?

            The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

            by lysias on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 11:27:27 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Rights are only rights when they can be sustained. (0+ / 0-)

              Otherwise they are only assertions.

              For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

              by Anne Elk on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 02:31:50 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  Texas s/b Latino friendly, of all states (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    but they aren't.  Thus, Texas will go blue in 10-15 years.
    Texas is where the Dem action will be the next dozen years.

    80 % of Success is Just Showing Up !

    by Churchill on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:37:28 AM PST

  •  Low information voters are easily swayed (14+ / 0-)

    This is why the control of school boards and texts are so critical. Texas is trying to "grow" little republicans knowing that otherwise the numbers work against them as you've stated.

    •  Not that smart (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      What's fascinating is that so many Texas school districts don't even use text books anymore - the text books we're exporting.  The districts usually buy them, but they don't hand them out to students to study over like they used to in my day.  

      I don't think they're trying to grow little Republicans this way.  They think they're already Republicans and they're just preaching to the choir.

  •  Racial Apartheid States Owned By Senile Donor (5+ / 0-)

    ....billionaires.  Doing that under the radar was their incentive  in 2012.

    There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

    by bernardpliers on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:38:40 AM PST

  •  Democracy in Name Only (5+ / 0-)

    RE: "And then [Texas] can all come back once Latinos have taken over the joint..."

    This statement assumes that, if it were to secede, Texas would remain a democracy. No doubt, Texas Republicans would eliminate the right to vote for anybody who might, or has ever, voted for a Democrat.

  •  You mean Cowboys fans will be illegal aliens? (4+ / 0-)

    Where do I sign?

    Reagan signed an amnesty bill in 1986 and how's that helping Republicans today?

    Once immigration reform is passed, Democrats have to perform on the economy.

    People that move to Texas know that it is full of Texans.  They know what Texans are.  If they had a problem with them, they would move to California.  Or Vermont.

  •  I used to live in Houston (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Notreadytobenice, mightymouse

    That is an amazing stat as it did not seem to be that high in minorities at the time.  I left there 9 years ago.  It must be indicative of an aging white population there as I didn't have any kids at the time so I had few glimpses of the school environment.

  •  I have to agree with the idea (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    let'em go.  

    Good luck, god bless and by all means, Texas, go "build that" all by yourselves.  

    When you fail, when you fall apart, call the United States of America - I think we'll take your call.

    You might have to say you are sorry... but that'll be a small price to pay.

  •  Texas state house in Austin bigger than US Capitol (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I'm not kidding, it really is.

    80 % of Success is Just Showing Up !

    by Churchill on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:41:07 AM PST

  •  Does Texas still have the legal right to split up (4+ / 0-)

    into more states, up to four, as it was granted by the treaty of annexation to the U.S.?

    If it does, this might be a way for the Anglo parts of the state to separate from the Hispanic parts.

    The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

    by lysias on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:42:16 AM PST

    •  Made moot by Kansas-Nebraska act 1854. (4+ / 0-)

      It was all about the slavery issue.
      No section of Texas has the power to enforce it.

      Fuck Big Brother...from now on, WE'RE watching.

      by franklyn on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:38:55 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Snopes says it's "partly true" (0+ / 0-)

      Seems any state can break into pieces with the approval of that state's legislature and the U.S. Congress.

      There's a good explanation at snopes if you google "snopes texas split into states."

      In the TV series "revolution" there's the Texas Republic:

      In Season 1 Episode 5, "Soul Train", a map of the former Contiguous United States is shown. The map showed the former continental United States divided into five nations. These are the Monroe Republic, the Georgia Federation, the Plains Nation, The Republic of Texas (consisting of Texas, parts of Mexico, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Oklahoma), the California Commonwealth and the Wasteland
  •  Texas can secede and anyone who wants to leave (5+ / 0-)

    Texas and relocate to another state, the US government should provide a place for them to go.  Maybe as part of a jobs bill, we can build towns in sparsely populated states like SD or MT or ND or KS ....somewhere there is a lot of land available to start new towns in those big states with lower populations.

    Then Texas can just form their own military,  their own federal goverment and no more aid of any kind from the United FEMA, no FDA, no federal help of any kind. Then they can worry about another country invading them and taking them over.

    Follow PA Keystone Liberals on Twitter: @KeystoneLibs

    by wishingwell on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:42:41 AM PST

    •  True, but overall a "maker" not a "taker" (0+ / 0-)

      I think Texas is actually about the only really red state that doesn't suck off the teats of the blue states.

      So we might not gain financially by not sending our hard-earned money to them as we do to the all the other red states who manage the trifecta of being too cheap to tax themselves, too mean-spirited to provide services to their residents, and too hypocritical to stop biting the hand that feeds them.

  •  First, we stop the new George Bush (6+ / 0-)

    from taking power. He can definitely centralize the Latino voting power in Texas against Democrats.

  •  perhaps we can start a voluntary deportation progr (0+ / 0-)

    bullshit mountain.

    Howard Dean will always be my president.

    by 4democracy on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:42:50 AM PST

  •  Texas is not turning blue anytime soon (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Notreadytobenice, lzmd

    Obama lost 2x both by +15.  Dem senators can even compete. Same with Govs. For god sake, Rick Perry wins in Texas.  

    it'll be 2030 before Texas is purple.

    On DailyKos nothing is significant unless Obama doesn't do it.

    by glutz78 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:42:55 AM PST

    •  11.76% in 2008, 15.93% in 2012 (0+ / 0-)

      McCain got 73% of the white vote in 2008. I'd expect Romney did even better than that but there weren't any exit polls in Texas this year.

      Bottom line, in a state where the Republicans enjoy a 50%+ advantage among white voters we're kidding ourselves that demographics alone will turn that state around.

    •  Gore lost VA 52-44 in 2000, so it isn't really (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fuzzyguy, Lawrence

      all that far away, especially when you consider all those 10 year old Latino Texans  who will be voting for the first time in 2020.  Yes, Obama lost 57-41, but those margins will inexorably shrink every year from here on out.

  •  those public school numbers ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Laredo, Houston, Dallas, Lubbock.

    What is the effect of white kids moving to private schools/home schooling?

    An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

    by mightymouse on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:43:42 AM PST

  •  Would Texas rejoin the U.S., or would it (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    rejoin Mexico?

    The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

    by lysias on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:43:45 AM PST

  •  We are going to turn Texas blue (14+ / 0-)

    We are really working hard here in Texas to turn it blue.  So, please support us progressives down here.  Thanks.

  •  "Petition For The Redress Of Grievances" (0+ / 0-)

    Is in the Constitution.  The don't like to pay taxes?  Fine, let them opt out do without all the goodies the fed gives them.

    The first states should be the national cash cows like NY.  Let Alaskans go back to living off fur trapping.

    There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

    by bernardpliers on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:43:50 AM PST

  •  Hardin Co, TX Republican treasurer Peter Morrison (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, mightymouse
    Like the remainder of Lee’s army after Gettysburg, it is our duty to keep fighting to the bitter end, in hopes that Providence might shine upon our cause before it is too late.  We must contest every single inch of ground and delay the baby-murdering, tax-raising socialists at every opportunity.  But in due time, the maggots will have eaten every morsel of flesh off of the rotting corpse of the Republic, and therein lies our opportunity.


    “They” re-elected Obama last night.  He is their President.  And we must admit to ourselves at some point, it is now their country.  Just as Scotland is currently contemplating her own independence from Great Britain, it is time for the more conservative constituent parts of this country to consider whether this sacred union is really quite so sacred anymore.


    In this respect, Texas can lead the way.  Texas was once its own country, and many Texans already think in nationalist terms about their state.  We need to do everything possible to encourage a long-term shift in thinking on this issue.  Why should Vermont and Texas live under the same government?  Let each go her own way in peace, sign a free trade agreement among the states and we can avoid this gut-wrenching spectacle every four years.
  •  Not that it would ever happen but... (4+ / 0-)

    Given the core beliefs of the people who want secession and the fact that they know they will soon be outnumbered, if they were somehow successful they would almost certainly form a new apartheid regime to prevent any racial change in government control.

  •  Anders Breivik/Sovereign Citizens/Civil War 2 Book (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chrismorgan, wishingwell, chipoliwog

    All these have as their theme terrorism and creating white homelands.  You can find "Civil War 2" on line as a pdf.  It goes back to the early 1990s and talks about breaking up the US into white ethnic homelands.  This stuff is deep in the DNA of movement conservatives.

    There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

    by bernardpliers on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:47:06 AM PST

  •  I'm trying to figure out how to convince (6+ / 0-)

    the Latinos here in Texas that in 2014 they need to vote at the same percentage as everyone else in the state.  They have two years to get ready.  If they do that, it would rock the state, and as this article states, the Republican party.

    "But the problem with any ideology is that it gives the answer before you look at the evidence." - President Clinton

    by anonevent on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:47:23 AM PST

    •  Maybe let them convince you to do x. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fuzzyguy, Miggles, mightymouse, pademocrat

      I'm black I've spent most of my life in predominantly black areas -- and turnout is and has been relatively small compared to the number of people who could vote.  Even in 2008 -- turnout was better than before in my precinct -- but only 40% of the eligible black population voted.

      I didn't vote in 2010.  In the name of trying to appeal to white voters in Texas -- Bill White seemed to think it worth it to offend me in ways that seemed to suggest he didn't even want my vote.  His "we're not from the same place" regarding Obama seemed to include me -- too.  He didn't even email me or call me during the campaign.  BUT -- AFTER he lost -- I started getting emails from his campaign asking me for donations to help Texas Democrats in the future.

      I wrote back -- asking them not to contact me, anymore.

    •  The core part of convincing people to vote is to (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fuzzyguy, hatecloudsyourthoughts

      have good candidates and run good campaigns.  We aren't entitled to having Latinos vote for Democrats.  Such a sense of entitlement leads to disasters like we suffered in 2010.  We have to convince people why they should vote for our side -- as it should be.

  •  the way the demographics (0+ / 0-)

    are moving in the not to distant future the gop will be just another hateful group of white bigots not unlike the kkk, maybe they can merge and become repuklicans or something like that, then as they die off the only industry that will benefit from the merger will be cross selling, i know one thing, i can't fing wait.

  •  But please do leave the Nuclear weapons at (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chrismorgan, wishingwell, Check077

    Your doorstep somebody will be by to pick them up

    The 1st Amendment gives you the right to say stupid things, the 1st Amendment doesn't guarantee a paycheck to say stupid things.

    by JML9999 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:47:30 AM PST

  •  Something I noticed yesterday (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    entrelac, Odysseus, PDiddie, Check077, Lawrence

    In Texas we had close to 3.3 million Obama voters. The difference between Obama and Romney in the national popular vote was just over 3.3 million. Without the Texas Obama voters the national popular vote would have been just about tied. As a Democratic voter in Texas, I find that encouraging.

    Travis County, where I live, voted 60%-36% for Obama. If you look at the red and blue breakdown across the whole country, whether you're talking Georgia, Wisconsin, or California, most urban areas, especially ones with large universities, tended to vote Obama, while rural areas voted for Romney. Texas is rapidly becoming more urban with some of the fastest growing cities in the country. Many of those new urban Texans have migrated from California, the NE, and the upper Midwest, and they bring their political values with them. Between the rapidly growing urban areas and the growing Latino population, Texas will be a swing state like Virgina or North Carolina in 8-12 years.

  •  Go for it! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    A recent Kos diary asked essentially this question:  Would the country be better off if the southern states actually seceded?  You bet your life it would!  If they are miserable being a part of us, then let them go their own way.

    Republicans, don't you think it's about time that you grew up?  Your stupid hissy fits and temper tantrums may be more appropriate for 3- and 4-year-olds, but they are SO unbecoming to supposedly mature adults.  Until you grow up, my ears are closed to any message you may want to give me.

  •  I say (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    before we let them secede, let's give them a taste of what's in store. Cut off all of their Federal funding, you know, the money that States like New York and California funnel out of their coffers to their states, close every Military base in those states, move NASA out of Texas, and let them see how they get more than they give. I'm so sick of these moochers complaining about the States that are supporting them, because of their inability to practice what they preach.

    •  Actually, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Americantrueandblue, mightymouse

      if you bothered to get your facts straight first, you'd know that Texas actually contributes more in taxes than it receives from the fed, but hey, don't let facts get in the way of your racist attitude to get rid of all those brown people in Texas. Sure, only almost half the state, 3.3 million people voted for Obama. I guess that isn't good enough for New York. You visit upstate lately? I've seen a lot of stars and bars in my travels about the finger lakes....mostly white people too.

      •  how have you interpreted any of this to be racist? (0+ / 0-)

        For one thing, I have lived and worked on and off in Mexico for many years.  If had a problem with those "brown people" as you put it, do you think I would have spent so much time there, working side by side with Mexicans? In all cases, Mexicans, not Americans, were my employers. Do you really think a person who was racist would willingly go to Mexico and work? As far as Texas, I was not singling them out, except for my comment about NASA. It is known that, in general, red states get more in revenues from the blue states than the other way around. My statement was a bit of hyperbole, aimed at the assumed white people that are behind these petitions that think that they are giving more to the federal government than not.  I guess some are a tad sensitive around here. Is this any more racist than any of the other comments here saying that it's alright for them to secede. Could you imagine how minorities would be treated if that were to actually happen? Not that it will.

    •  Ha ha. Or put up a "demonstration" border (0+ / 0-)

      check along State Line Avenue in Texarkana, subjecting white, Republican voting Texans to the same treatment that Mexicans receive when entering the US.

  •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

    Who could have guessed that America's violent and immoral seizing of Texas in the Nineteenth century would eventually lead to the moral and non-violent shift of the cowboy culture to the culture of Democracy and community in the 21st?

    Karma can be a bitch sometimes! :D :D

    Sadly, everything Communism said about itself was a lie. Even more sadly,, everything Communism said about Capitalism was the truth.

    by GayIthacan on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:51:00 AM PST

  •  let them secede (0+ / 0-)

    but don't let them back in. No Deposit no return.

  •  Tejanos are coming back to kick Thugs arses. (4+ / 0-)

    Texas was an independent country before it was a state.  Texas latinos, otherwise known as Tejanos, were a large number of its citizens and critical to its independence and success. See, Seguin, Navarro, et. al.

    There would be no Texas without them.

    These racist Thugs aren't even Texan, let alone American.

  •  Something for Secessionists to Ponder: (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Hohenzollern, entrelac, joy221

    If demographics in Texas are trending such that Texas, as a state, will lean blue in a decade -- then Texas, as an independent entity, would also lean blue in a decade.

    The only way for right-wing Texas white folk to hold power would be to pull a South Africa. And an independent Texas engaging in apartheid would be economically sanctioned into the stone age.

    ad astra per alia porci

    by harrije on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:54:48 AM PST

  •  Let 'em go... (0+ / 0-)

    and we'll throw in Oklahoma. Make DC and Puerto Rico states and we won't even need to redo the flag.

    Austin can be relocated to Sante Fe, NM. They can keep their shitty, oil soaked beaches from Galveston to Corpus. And the Cowboys well definitely no longer be "America's Team".

    If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

    by ord avg guy on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:54:54 AM PST

  •  Sounds like another temper tantrum. (0+ / 0-)

    We dealt with this over the last 4 years hoping they would "get over it".  I don't know about the rest of ya'll but I am over their shock when they realize the numbers are anything but "white".  Seriously didn't any of these people listen to Pat Buchanan?  He was quite clear about this day and all the days moving forward.  

  •  If Texas seceded. (5+ / 0-)

    Couldn't we invade them and take their oil?

  •  Maybe the solution... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shoeless, chipoliwog for Obama to say, "OK, form up your 'citizen's militia (since unlike 1860, the guard reports to the federal government, not the state).  We'll give you a month or so to get organized and train.

    After that, go ahead and line up with your shotguns and squirrel rifles bought at the local 'Guns R' Us' and we'll line up the might of the United Stated army on the landward size and blockade your ports on the gulf side and then we'll have at it - Civil War II.  Dare I say most most of your chicken hawk selves would have run home to momma by late afternoon and this whole secession thing will be over."

    Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power -- Benito Mussolini

    by drcraigphd on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:57:26 AM PST

    •  Civil War I was a deadly mistake. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      entrelac, fuzzyguy

      Why should we repeat it?

      The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

      by lysias on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:04:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The point is... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        ...we wouldn't repeat it.  They would run home to momma before they "got kill't".

        And, I would dare say that Civil War I was not a mistake insofar as the abolition of slavery was necessary.  That would not have occurred as soon as it did otherwise.

        Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power -- Benito Mussolini

        by drcraigphd on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:06:36 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  To buy the freedom of the slaves would have (0+ / 0-)

          been a lot cheaper than the Civil War, even in monetary terms.  And 600,000 lives would have been spared.

          The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

          by lysias on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:20:40 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  But you don't pay... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            ...for something like that.  Slave holders should not have been rewarded for that, and they wouldn't have accepted it anyway, since that was their only means of livelihood.  They wanted the ultimate cheap labor - like good little capitalists - and they would not have then been willing to pay for the same services.  In other words, there's no amount of money they would have been willing to accept in compensation for all future lost free labor.

            Then, like now, their ranks were filled with people who ran their mouths a bit too much and thought a bit too little, and they weren't going to back down from their rhetoric, which included war.

            Besides, even if it was a wasted war - which I don't personally agree with - it wasn't the first or last one the US has fought or will fight.  But maybe, just maybe, it was one of the most just ones we've fought.

            Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power -- Benito Mussolini

            by drcraigphd on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:27:56 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  don't be foolish.. 15 military bases in Texas (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Many in the military would side with Texas.  The equipment on those bases would be confiscated and would arm a small army more than large enough to defend against anything short of a nuke attack.

      And Texas would also be a nuclear power, remember.

  •  When the GOP goes boots up, two parties will exist (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lysias, AmericanAnt

    Honestly, the country's political system is set up for two parties because that is the logical, mathematical number for winner-take all systems (if you want third or fourth parties, you have to adopt a parliamentary system that requires coalitions).

    What's going to happen when the Republican Party squabbles itself out of existence is we'll have two parties: The Democratic Party, and "The Democratic Party Plus". The current Democratic Party establishment and policies will be the "conservative" part of the electorate, and I strongly suspect the TDK community or its successors a generation hence will be in the Democratic Party Plus.

    Now, we've had polarity flip before: the Democrats and Republicans flipped, in a sense, around the 1912 election with the socialists and Bull Moose parties dragging the Democrats over to the "left" from the odd mixture of urban ethnic populism and rural conservatism it had represented before, while the Republican party morphed away from Progressivism and national strong government to its current big business-social conservative incarnation. It took a full century for the illogical aspects of that coalition to get to the point they're at now, so nobody's saying its dissolution into Whiggery won't take a little longer. But it will happen. The party can't pivot because there's nothing about any of its wings -- crony capitalism, extreme controlling social conservatism, laissez faire libertarianism -- that resonates with modern society, and in the meantime the cooperative approach of Democrats on security has proven far more effective than the old shovel-money-at-the-arms-industry approach of the Republicans.

    Some people are intolerant, and I CAN'T STAND people like that. -- Tom Lehrer

    by TheCrank on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 07:57:36 AM PST

  •  hope (0+ / 0-)

    I hope the Cruz comments empower latinos even MORE in Texas.  From Cruz's lips to God's ears.  

    •  Yea, knock yerself out (6+ / 0-)

      If Republicans are putting their hopes on Cruz, they are in big trouble deep down in Texas.  Firstly, Cruz is a Cuban-heritage Hispanic, not a Mexican or Central American.  Secondly, Cruz is as freakin' batshit crazy as Bachman, Perry, and Santorum.  He may be capable of doing teh crazy in Spanish, but he will not be very appealing to the majority of American Hispanics--about as appealing as Allen West is to African Americans.

      All forms of fundamentalist thought breed magical thinking.

      by YankInUK on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:15:22 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly. Latinos aren't going to vote for him (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        just because of his last name.  From reading my local Spanish language weekly newspaper here in the DC area, they aren't fawning over Marco Rubio.  They point out his policies that are inconsistent with latino interests.  The same will be true and then even more so for Cruz, given that he is a RWNJ.  He'll probably end up looking about as sane as Hugo Chávez, which isn't saying much.

  •  It's not that far off either (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    If 70% of the public school kids are "minorities" (is that even a valid description anymore) then by 2024 ALL of them will be voting. If the Dems can hold the White House the next two elections, the GOP is toast...

    Progress 365 not just a slogan a goal - 300 progressive seats in the House and 65 progressive seats in the Senate.

    by jusjtim35 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:00:29 AM PST

  •  why don't national DEMS mega-organize in TX now! (4+ / 0-)

    there are still a good number of Latinos in TX who vote  Republican or who do not vote. I think this needs to be a national project for the DEMS - organizing and registering TX Latinos and other minorities and an better outreach to Whites. TX afterall had a DEM governor in the 90s. That is not so long ago.

  •  Just reimpose Civil War Reconstruction (0+ / 0-)

    On any of the States that do these petitions and send in Federal troops to Remove Republican Governors/Legislatures from those States.  Reconcstruction was ended via Executive Order and the original law id probably still on the books.

  •  How glorious this would be! (0+ / 0-)
    We would become like the Whig Party. Our kids and grandkids would study how this used to be a national political party. ‘They had Conventions, they nominated Presidential candidates. They don’t exist anymore.
  •  If the GOP is doomed to lose once Texas goes blue, (0+ / 0-)

    maybe they can be persuaded to support the switch to deciding presidential elections by the national popular vote.

    The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

    by lysias on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:02:46 AM PST

  •  kinda fits with the last panel in Bors' comic (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    "YES we want free birth control now!"

    "especially in Latino communities"

    A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

    by dougymi on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:03:11 AM PST

  •  After they secede, they better not try (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    to cross the border into the US as illegal immigrants.

    When you don't vote, Mitt happens.

    by shoeless on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:04:40 AM PST

  •  They take 30-40% of this country's energy (0+ / 0-)

    along with them.

    40% of all oil refined in the US is done in Texas.  They have 25% of the nation's natural gas reserves.

    If we're talking about the whole gulf coast seceding, the north is in trouble at least for several years.  Gas and heating oil prices would double easily.  But, it might make alternative sources all that much more profitable.

    I guess it would depend on whether Texans would even sell gas up north, or simply ship out the refined products on tankers to other countries in spite.

    I mostly laugh at these notions of secession.. but I see troubling times ahead.  Another recession/depression, especially a world-wide one, could be the spark.

  •  Makes more sense for TX than many other red states (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fuzzyguy, Americantrueandblue

    Unlike a lot of other red states, at least Texas does not receive more in federal benefits than it contributes in taxes. It receives in benefits about .91 on the dollar (I'm too lazy to look up the exact amount right now). So if they did secede, at least they wouldn't get immediatley hammered by the withdrawal of federal money.

  •  what happens when they apportion EC to CD? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    There have been several posts on this headlined here.  If the electoral college is assigned to congressional districts, it doesn't matter how blue the cities get.  Every vote over a majority in that district is thrown away.

    TX,, OH, PA, and many other states will go red.  They controll the gov and state seats, they control how the rules get written.

    Can't win by the rules?  Change the rules.

  •  TX is not CA or AZ (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bon Temps

    As dim and tunnel-visioned as Republikkkanischen tend to be, in Texas, they haven't given forth with the dumb ass legislation that turned CA blue and will do the same in AZ.

    No 1070 and none of the dumb props Wilson used to win in 1994.

    TX remains red. The Krazy Klown Kult, for some reason, knows better there.

    Dig the new single from Papa Knuckerhole himself:

    by Johnny Wendell on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:08:44 AM PST

  •  If it hasn't been mentioned already (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I refer everyone to read the seminal book The Emerging Democratic Majority.

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:08:49 AM PST

  •  Shouldn't Texas become something (5+ / 0-)

    of a Democratic Party project over the next few years? It seems a bit unwise to just think that demographics will do our work for us. Surely Republicans, if Cruz is any indication, are well aware of their peril, and are likely to work hard to counter their decline. I do not mean to suggest that they will be successful. But there is every reason to invest considerable effort in rebuilding a very diminished Texas Democratic Party.

    For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

    by Anne Elk on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:10:15 AM PST

    •  Texas has already changed (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fuzzyguy, 88kathy, Penny Century

      it will turn blue, it is just a matter of when.  Rebuilding Dems should be a priority today in Texas.

      •  Building the bench up on local (3+ / 0-)

        positions is key to having Dems ready to run for mayors, congress, senate, and governor positions. The biggest problem in Texas is that there is little National Democratic Support in an insanely expensive and diverse media market which leads to many D's not bothering to run because they lack the funds.

        It is hard to flip uncontested races. It is infuriating.

        •  you don't have to work rural districts to have (0+ / 0-)

          the most impact.  Just the major cities and the border and that alone would speed things along and be much cheaper.

          •  School boards (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            are very very important and basic training and assistance in getting D's elected to them even in rural districts would cost very little and hold the potential to net huge gains in the long term with better rural public education, accountability with tax payer money, and D's with some campaign and public office experience to spring board to ever higher levels of public office.

    •  Thank you, Anne Elk. (0+ / 0-)

      Do you have Thanksgiving plans?  You're welcome at my house--here in the Heart o' Texas--anytime.  You don't need to bring anything but your smart, sane, lovely self.

      •  Well, that's a lovely invitation. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tea and Strumpets

        You have quite made my day. I do have an affection for Texas born of my Australian upbringing. Texas and Australia have more than a little in common. I am reminded of a line from a classic Australian poem we all learned at school, "...her beauty and her terror, the wide brown land for me."

        For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

        by Anne Elk on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:49:34 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Ah, Australia. (0+ / 0-)

          That would explain your smart, sane, lovely post.  I'm from wide, brown West Texas, so the poetry touches my heart.  

          •  Dorothea McKellar wrote that. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tea and Strumpets

            Here is the full poem. I think any Texan would recognize the terrain:

            The love of field and coppice,
            Of green and shaded lanes.
            Of ordered woods and gardens
            Is running in your veins,
            Strong love of grey-blue distance
            Brown streams and soft dim skies
            I know but cannot share it,
            My love is otherwise.

            I love a sunburnt country,
            A land of sweeping plains,
            Of ragged mountain ranges,
            Of droughts and flooding rains.
            I love her far horizons,
            I love her jewel-sea,
            Her beauty and her terror -
            The wide brown land for me!

            A stark white ring-barked forest
            All tragic to the moon,
            The sapphire-misted mountains,
            The hot gold hush of noon.
            Green tangle of the brushes,
            Where lithe lianas coil,
            And orchids deck the tree-tops
            And ferns the warm dark soil.

            Core of my heart, my country!
            Her pitiless blue sky,
            When sick at heart, around us,
            We see the cattle die -
            But then the grey clouds gather,
            And we can bless again
            The drumming of an army,
            The steady, soaking rain.

            Core of my heart, my country!
            Land of the Rainbow Gold,
            For flood and fire and famine,
            She pays us back threefold -
            Over the thirsty paddocks,
            Watch, after many days,
            The filmy veil of greenness
            That thickens as we gaze.

            An opal-hearted country,
            A wilful, lavish land -
            All you who have not loved her,
            You will not understand -
            Though earth holds many splendours,
            Wherever I may die,
            I know to what brown country
            My homing thoughts will fly.

            For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

            by Anne Elk on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 02:36:09 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Ted Cruz hardly is a typical Texan hispanic. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      He is half Cuban, was born in Canada, and doesn't really have much in common with Texas Latinos.

      Making Texas a Democratic project is a good idea, but I think North Carolina and Arizona are closer to turning into blue leaning states.

      "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

      by Lawrence on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 11:59:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  My Questions are (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bon Temps

    would that turn Texas and other seceeding states into a magnet for angry racist whites? Would that change the demography?  

    Or do I need to check the ground for fallen bits of sky?

    God be with you, Occupiers. God IS with you.

    by Hohenzollern on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:10:37 AM PST

  •  And the White House responds: (8+ / 0-)

    Dear Texas, thank you for your Petition to Secede.  Your petition is very important to us.  Please pay attention because our options may have changed. Press one for Spanish.  Press two for Spanish.  Press three for Spanish.......

  •  Two stupids don't make a bright (3+ / 0-)

    What a waste of bandwidth (even as cheap and plentiful as it is these days).

    My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.—Carl Schurz
    Give 'em hell, Barry—Me

    by KingBolete on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:15:59 AM PST

  •  Let them go (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Let them take all the beachfront property, South Padre Island, Galveston, even throw in the Florida Keys and Hilton Head and any other Confederate sand bar they want to raise a flag on.  

    I'm sure they will get back to us if there is a problem with, say, global warming.

  •  The Irony of History (0+ / 0-)

    now on display in the Lone Star State.

    They want their Country Back. The "Way it Used to Be"

    I guess they Forgot that BEFORE they arrived, the folks
    living there had that Brown Skin tone that they now Despise.

    They are the Same Village Idiots that think the Name "Pontiac"
    came from the Marketing Dept. at General Motors.

    On Giving Advice: Smart People Don't Need It and Stupid People Don't Listen

    by Brian76239 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:22:19 AM PST

  •  ted cruz (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    entrelac, fuzzyguy

    that's easily the sanest thing to have ever left his mouth.

    it kills me when people here talk this nonsense. i love my texan pride as much as the next texan, but we have all the tanks and a lot of the planes and quite a bit of the lockheedy/gen dynamics stuff too.

    plus, have the right-wingers talking this shit mentioned it to the oil and gas companies headquartered in houston? they might have something to say about their base of operations suddenly being in a fledgling nation.

    secession is a lot of things, stupid and unamerican chief among them.

    If only Michael Phelps hadn't smoked that pot...imagine what he could have accomplished with motivation and good lung capacity.

    by papa monzano on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:26:21 AM PST

  •  I think this response goes... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    to everyone of the epic dumbfucks across the country who sign ANY petition to "secede" from the union because a scary black man just won reelection.

    As a Democrat, I remember wailing and whining a lot when Bush won reelection, maybe some even threatened to go to Canada, but for crying out fucking loud, NO ONE threatened to or proposed to secede.

    These people are an embarrassment.

  •  "Well, son, as I recall (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    we sold Texas to Mexico back in '13.  El Presidente de Norte Mexico, Ricardo Perito was last seen giggling and digging around in his pocket for his cue cards.  Los Caballeros joined the Mexican League de Futbal where they were told to 'put on some shorts and lose the helmets.'"

    Can you call yourself a real liberal if you aren't reading driftglass?

    by CJB on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:30:31 AM PST

  •  This article just drips with irony. (0+ / 0-)

    A brown dude (a "Mexican" to the average Republican/Tea Partier) who was born in Canada (yeah, that won't be a problem) who is a Republican and wants to run for President.

    It makes sense that he wants to put a bigger fence on the southern border, considering it wouldn't be "his" people being left out.

    My wife was once a died-in-the-wool Christian Republican. It took a couple of years, plus separation from her family, but she's now an Athiest Democrat. My work here is done.

    by Grindhousepolitics on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:31:59 AM PST

  •  I live in Texas (6+ / 0-)

    I'd rather it not secede, thanks.

    Anyway, who should really secede? I think the only people who want secession, in Texas or anywhere else in the south, are the country folks. Have you been to Houston lately? It's more like Chicago than it is Dallas. I live in Austin, which is more like Berkeley than even Berkeley is these days.

    The notion of secession is for simpletons whether their politics are blue or red.

    •  Well said. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      The secession talk by people on this site drives me batty. Especially since most don't get that their argument is inherently racist. They want to keep "white" Austin, but don't mention the valley, El Paso, San Antonio, or even Houston.

  •  I want to secede from Texas (0+ / 0-)

    The Annexation Treatyof 1845 allowed Texas to split into as many as 5 states.
    So here's my split: Houston (my state), Dallas, Austin/San Antonio, El Paso, and Texas. Houston would have out-of-state workers who live in Fort Bend and Montgomery Counties.

    Censorship is rogue government.

    by scott5js on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:36:23 AM PST

  •  Funny (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The GOP still think female, young and brown vote for people who are female or look young and brown and not people who understand the challenges of being female, young and brown.

    It's why they promoted Michael Steele after Obama was elected.  It's why they promoted JC Watt.  It's why they believe Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio are the keys to unlocking the minority vote.  It's why they chose Sarah Palin.

    What they don't understand is that most females, the young and brown know what old, white and male people want to do.  And that is retain their "entitlement" to superiority, power and riches.  And they're willing to hire people, at great personal advancement, to sell why status quo ante of individual old, white and male leaders makes sense for them.

    What Democrats have figured out, is that people of color, the young, and the female offer perspectives that can help solve problems with outside the box thinking.  They understand that hierarchical systems, although safe feeling, are really a ruse.  The safety is personal empowerment, and equal justice.

    Texas has a history of racism it is still dealing with.  It has a system that relies financially on fossils, quite literally.  And they want to believe that this change happening under their feet is somehow temporary, transient.  And if they just close their eyes long enough, the realities of the world will just go away.  And this is reinforced with their churches, their families, their fathers.

    So, rather than anger, give Texas your patience.  They're petulant children, and if you ignore the tantrum, they'll probably stop having them.

  •  Ay Caramba! Adelante! n/t (0+ / 0-)

    Macca's Meatless Monday

    by VL Baker on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:43:08 AM PST

  •  Public School Children % (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I did not read every single comment above, but has anyone looked into what the percentage of Latino children is just as percentage of the total population of children.  I am told that no white southerner with $2 to rub together sends their child to public school.  I think evaluating demographics by evaluating public school attendance in the South would be about as accurate as evaluating demographics by analyzing the race of country club members.  

    •  Private school isn't cheap, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      and the "Texas Miracle" meant lots of low paying jobs. Employment, but most of the jobs are low paying rubbish jobs. There are a LOT of very poor white people in Texas who send their kids to public schools as well. There just happens to be fewer of those white kids than there are "brown" kids.

  •  Triumphalist nightmares (0+ / 0-)

    It figures that right wing triumphalists who believed (ridiculously) that their way would Rule Forevermore now have paranoid delusions about a left/Democratic tilt also being permanent. On behalf of people who saw the Age of Roosevelt give way to their Age of Reagan, we can assure them that nothing lasts forever--though things we don't like may last a long time.  The system still responds to population realities,even if all of us, some time or other, wish it didn't.  Get a grip.

  •  There are over 20 million people in Texas. 60,000 (6+ / 0-)

    signed the petition. They forgot that secession battle was fought over 147 years ago. They lost!! Allowing them to secede (a pipe dream) would be an insult to the Union troops who died in the civil war. To just give it back to a small bunch of confederates, hell NO. Should be a serious crime to talk about dividing OUR country. We, my ancestors fought and won that Texas land. So if they want to secede, they can secede and get their racist butts off OUR LAND. I don't know where they will go, but they GOT TO GIT THE HELL OUT OF HERE.

    •  Exactly. What kind of lesson does that teach (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      88kathy, OrganizedCrime

      their kids.  When you don't get your way just pout and throw a fit!

      We had to put up with 8 years of Bush.  I didn't hear California asking to leave the union......what gives with these blowhards!?

    •  Apparently, many of (0+ / 0-)

      the people who signed this petition (and those from other states as well) don't even live in them, they live in states such as California and New York, which makes this even more ridiculous. You get 60,000 signatures many not even from people in Texas (as well as the other states) and so many just jump on the bandwagon of  "Dump moochers, we're better of without em! Oh, and by the way despite the fact that we sound exactly like Republicans, we're better than them!"

      "The government of the many, not the government of the money" - Nancy Pelosi

      by Americantrueandblue on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 09:23:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Texas Unionist of a different era (0+ / 0-)

      Noah Smithwick (Evolution of a State), on departing Texas at the beginning of the Civil War:

      And now all the advantages accruing to us under Uncle Sam's beneficent rule were to be thrown to the winds. In vain our leading men - Houston, Culberson , Hamilton , Hancock, Throckmorton , Duval and many others - tried to reason with the excited populace. They were deaf to reason.

      As the son of a revolutionary soldier, I could not raise my hand against the Union he had fought to establish. I had fought to make Texas a member of the Union, and I would not turn round and fight to undo my work.
       I went to see General Houston and had a long talk. "General," said I, "if you will again unfurl the Lone Star from the capitol, I will bring you 100 men to help maintain it there."

      "My friend," said he, "I have seen Texas pass through one long, bloody war. I do not wish to involve her in civil strife. I have done all I could to keep her from seceding, and now if she won't go with me I'll have to turn and go with her."

      And so we parted ways. It was with a feeling of inexpressible sadness that I bade farewell to old Austin and the many friends who had been associated with me in our early struggles. Many of them were Unionists, some of whom like myself fled the country, while others, like General Houston, acquiesced in the will of the majority. Hamilton and Hancock were among the former.

      "You're only allowed a certain number of flips before people begin to doubt your character." - Mitt Romney

      by rsmpdx on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 10:03:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  That's total nonsense. Dead people don't (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      get a vote.

      If a serious majority of Texans wanted to leave the union, there's no basis for denying it to them.  People have a right to decide their own government.

      Now, in such a scenario, depending on geographical concentrations, there'd almost certainly be modifications to the territory to retain areas that don't want to leave.

  •  More of the Latinos live in urban areas and the (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    major urban counties, except Tarrant (Fort Worth) went blue.  These areas are growing while the rural areas are shrinking.

  •  Actually ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Latinos are mainly the descendants of Iberian immigrants and native peoples. Anglos are mainly the descendants of English and other western European settlers, and many of them also claim descent from native peoples. So these ethnopolitical groups are constructed.

    That means that some Latinos could hypothetically be constructed into a core conservative group. I mean the conservatives claim Giuliani, Scalia, Alito, and other Italian Americans as ideological members. Now, tell me, does Antonin Scalia strike you as particularly Anglo?

  •  Julian Castro (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    NEEDS to run for a higher office, maybe Senate or Governor in 2014? Surely he can give Perry a run for his money but it would be tough to knock off Cornyn, no?

    He's truly a gifted speaker, his speech at the DNC was right up there with Patrick's for me.

    Clinton-Castro 2016!

    •  Not likely. Texas remains a solidly Republican (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      state, right now.  There's not really much chance of a Democrat winning statewide office, which is why Castro's prospects are pretty unclear for the next little while.  There's not really an elective office above him that he could run for, unless he wanted to primary his brother.

  •  Any rule that the White House response.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    ..has to be verbal or written? 'Cause I have a few choice gestures in mind that might constitute a "response."

    Maybe one day the Fourth Estate will take their jobs seriously. Or not..

    by Anthony Page aka SecondComing on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 09:15:40 AM PST

  •  I am not one of the 25K (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    please refrain from casting all Texans with our redneck bretheran.  My family helped found this state as a nation and bring it to statehood in the 1840's - every major city in Texas went for Obama and Obama got a higher percentage of Texas votes than Romny got of California votes

    Republicans love America, they just hate half the people living in it" - Jon Stewart

    by thedave25 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 09:19:41 AM PST

  •  Secesh TXans should remember (0+ / 0-)

    what happened to Virginia during the Civil War.  West Virginia seceded from Virginia, 1861, and remained part of the Union.

    Now, all these folks who place such great store in local control, how will they like it when the pro-Obama counties, with the populations of Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Austin and El Paso, not to mention a healthy swath of the Rio Grande Valley, secede from the newly created Republic of (Much of the Land of) Texas?

    "You're only allowed a certain number of flips before people begin to doubt your character." - Mitt Romney

    by rsmpdx on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 09:20:23 AM PST

  •  Sign the other petition (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The one to deport all the people who signed the petition to secede from the US.  And by the way, we here in Texas will be glad to keep our "Dreamers."  They're the REAL Americans.

  •  2014 Project for Kos and other progressives (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rsmpdx, citizenx

    Texas has a gold mine of potential Latino Democratic voters that has yet to be tapped.  They are there.

    Kos, in conjunction with other Progressive sites, online and on cable, should start a concerted effort to register and educate these voters, etcetera.

    •  Educate them? (0+ / 0-)

      I'm not latino, I'm black -- but I'm sure latinos are just as sick of reading/hearing that some of you think you need to "educate" them as I and other black folks I know are of hearing it about us.

      When I don't support some Democrat, it's not because the GOP/life has somehow conspired to make/keep me stupid -- it's because that Democrat has at a minimum failed to inspire me to support him and quite often has lost my support by saying things similar to thinking it necessary to "educate" me.

      I think some Democrats need to be "educated" on how to speak to and about other people with at least the appearance of regard for them.

      It's getting better.  The Obama campaign did a good job and I believe Democrats will build on that progress and continue to draw more people in.

  •  As Rick Perry would say... (0+ / 0-)

    Adios mofo!

  •  Time to move to Texas (0+ / 0-)

    Seriously. Turn it blue.

  •  7,000 Dem party members (0+ / 0-)

    showed up for the Democratic state convention in Austin that I attended in 1996? as an exhibiter in the hall. Wow. What a party. What great Dems!

    Did you know that [in those days anyway] you could vote all Dem with one selection on your ballot? No picking through the list of candidates - one bubble for all Dem all the way.

    What's good about that? You can promote your party in ads - instead of choosing among so-called independent personalities, like we just had in Washington state. I noticed that some east Texas [poor] counties went about 80% Dem. Made me feel better about my neighbors there - even though I had to endure hearing "You Yankees" crap.

    Republicans have to pretend to be liberal independents, and Democrats don't mention their party - hoping to attract majorities in eastern WA. Dems never do.

    "I've got this pen. I'm ready to do it."

    by mrobinson on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 10:05:47 AM PST

    •  You can still vote "all Dem" with one selection (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      "Straight party" voting. Not the best idea in the world.

      If there is no Dem at all in a particular race you don't have  a vote in that race. Absent a good Dem choice would you rather the right leaning Libertarian or the left leaning Green? Neither is likely to win, but at least you register a preference.

      Texas elects judges. On partisan basis. However, judges often swithc parties as the wind blows, and their stated party says little about their views or effectiveness.

      In some down ticket races I spotted a few Dems that looked a bit like trojan horses. Not moderate dems. Not blue dogs. Reading their responses to candidate questionnaires a few were further right on some issues than a moderate Republican. Far further.

      " can’t find any oxygen from outside the aircraft to get in the aircraft, because the windows don’t open. I don’t know why they don’t do that. It’s a real problem." Mitt Romney

      by Catte Nappe on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 10:31:08 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Counter Petition (0+ / 0-)

    Can't we just start a counter 'Let 'Em Go' petition that highlights all the reasons (sub-standard education, discriminatory policies, lack of church/state separation) why we should no longer allow the knuckle draggers in the Union any longer?

  •  Brown young people (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    If they could get past the "brown", and focus on the "young", I wonder if they would realize they are staring at a solution to their concerns about Social Security?

    " can’t find any oxygen from outside the aircraft to get in the aircraft, because the windows don’t open. I don’t know why they don’t do that. It’s a real problem." Mitt Romney

    by Catte Nappe on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 10:24:11 AM PST

  •  Ha! (0+ / 0-)

    Do they not realize that Houston would be wrecked with the loss of GD?

    Phoenix would lose GD and Honeywell.

    St. Louis would lose Boeing.

    Also, cities would secede from the states of dumbfuckistan.

    I'll always be...King of Bain...I'll always be...King of Bain

    by AZphilosopher on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 10:26:42 AM PST

  •  As much as I enjoy seeing Republics twist in the (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    wind, I have to say, single party politics would be very, very, very bad for America.

    That's one of the reasons I support the compact to effectively abolish the electoral college and allow the heathens to elect their own president without the blessings of the nobles.

    If anything, we need MORE parties in the US.
    That's the reason I also support Rank Choice Voting.
    This would allow the Greens to vote their favorite candidate without the fear of tossing the election to Republicons.  And Ron Paul crazies could vote for him without fear of Democratics.   This would vastly expand the political dialogue and raise important issues (like Global Warming) that were all but ignored this election cycle.

  •  Okay, I take back my prediction (0+ / 0-)

    I said 3 years tops. But I should be realistic. I think an independent Texas will come running back to the Union within 5 years. What is going to happen to I40 etc meanwhile :-)

  •  Hm. (0+ / 0-)

    So, this will have to work like when India and Pakistan separated - a period of time when people can relocate back and forth across the border.  After that, people who wanted to leave Texas would have to apply for political asylum, which I'm sure would be generously granted.

    I'm sure that for some people who aren't republicans, this will essentially be exile from the home they love, and I'm sorry for that.  But it'd be better for you and your kids in the long run, because Texas is going to stop teaching science, feeding the hungry, caring for the elderly, etc.  A new immigrant saga.

    Could it be done? with border checkpoints on the interstates, and a place for everyone who isn't leaving to surrender their US passports?

  •  Does this mean my bottle of Shiner Bock (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Major Kong

    will suddenly come with an "IMPORTED" label on it?

    Way to class up the joint a little!

    Intended to be a factual statement.

    by ipsos on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 11:29:50 AM PST

  •  Well shoot (0+ / 0-)

    I was going to say:
    Good Bye. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

    But you've raised a very good point. Thanks!

    -5.38, -2.97
    Romney went to France instead of serving in our military, got rich chop-shopping US businesses and eliminating US jobs, off-shored his money in the Cayman Islands, and now tells us to "Believe in America."

    by ChuckInReno on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 12:58:54 PM PST

  •  I think the GOP has a plan with the new (0+ / 0-)

    demographics. At the moment, they own the education system in Texas and so therefore they have the perfect opportunity to indoctrinate them with good conservative principles while they are still young. I think they're probably counting on using their power now to pay dividends later. I'd be very surprised if they don't have a strategy like this lined up

  •  I am a proud Texan and (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    A house divided against itself cannot stand.
    This talk of being better off without my fellow Texans is madness. It's every bit as bad, in its own dividing way, as the secessionist talk and shines a light on people's prejudices just a brightly.

    I am a Texan but, most importantly, I am an American and I, and my state, deserve to be treated better than this bullshit. We bring more to the table than crazypants petitions from Redneckia. Medical research, oil & gas exploration, space exploration, computer technology, etc... all have a home in Texas.

    Sure the lunatics have 70,000+ signatures on this stupid petition but they aren't actually going to do anything and feeding the flames only empowers them to push the issue more in the same way that giving a temper tantrum throwing toddler attention makes them that much more dramatic.

    I have to wonder if this is what the talk was like in the lead up to the Civil War?

  •  Kos, how many of those kids are in private... (0+ / 0-)

    ....schools? Without that it's just spin.

  •  Markos, I have an alternative solution for the Rep (0+ / 0-)


    1. Free birth control for the poor.  Especially poor Catholics.

    2. Free abortions for the poor!  Again, especially for poor Catholics.

    It might not solve all their demographic problems, but, gosh, it might alleviate it just a little.  Why, them brown people, they breed like FLIES!  They're practically born pregnant!  Give them back their abortions and birth control before it's too late!

  •  Houston Schools (0+ / 0-)

    The statistic about Houston schools having a small white participation is misleading. The City of Houston sprawls over a number of other school districts. Texas school districts are independent of other governments. Almost all Texas districts have their names in the form of 'AREA' Independent School District.

    For example, my kids - white - attended Spring Branch School District which is on the west side of and in the City of Houston. The SBISD schools were mixed but many majority white.

  •  Oh my fellow Texans... No. (0+ / 0-)

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