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I mean, why is anyone thinking that an obstinate bunch of know-nothings would all of a sudden start living in reality?

Republicans live in a bubble of their own design where tax cuts create jobs and lower deficits.

John Boehner said yesterday that tax hikes would be bad. He continues to keep saying this despite the election results and so do many other Republicans.

A lot of the more intelligent Repubs say that Boehner and the House will cave because they won't want to be seen as causing middle class tax cuts to increase, but I beg to differ.

Come January 1st, if Boehner et al allow them to go up, they'll triple-down on the fact that the President is incapable of bringing anyone together on anything because that is the only narrative they understand on Bullshit Mountain.

Republicans are going to bring us to the brink on this and every other important thing, including the debt ceiling, while Obama continues to use the term "we" instead of "Republicans" when he says that "we" should not hold the middle-class hostage.

What's happening at the moment is the same crap that happened 18 months ago as all of us educated people guessed that Republicans wouldn't actually play chicken with the entire country, but they did and the President caved.

So.....WHY would Republicans suddenly awake from their invented fantasies from up on Bullshit Mountain?

Don't tell me it's that they don't want to end up getting voted out in 2014. If Republicans stick to their guns and allow us to go over the fiscal cliff, that would be perfect for them. They need another recession so they can pin it on our guy, and there's no reason to believe they won't allow it to happen.

It should come as no surprise that Republicans don't seem to understand the consequence of things like math and elections, facts and learning, so why would anyone think they're going to actually help this President do anything?

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Comment Preferences

  •  They don't have to cave (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boudi08, JL, nupstateny, Russgirl

    as long as Barack Obama doesn't.

    •  That doesn't make any sense.....splain! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Repubs NEED the narrative to be that Obama is awful for the economy. By not co-operating on anything, they force Obama's hand.

      By not co-operating, maybe we get another recession and that's when they get to say their narrative is correct.

      They don't care about the economy, so why should they start now?

      •  Because... (7+ / 0-)

        It was repeated ad nauseum during the election that Obama would let the Bush Tax Cuts expire. The Repubs were holding them hostage.  And now, re-elected Obama is making it very, very clear that if the BTC's expire without the middle-class getting their own tax break it is solely on the Republicans.  Period.

        So if Americans get hit with that tax hike, it's on the Repubs because they chose to let it happen.  Period.  Obama wants to give the middle-class their tax cuts, but the Repubs won't let him do so without giving the 2% their cuts as well, which is ridiculous.

        You're right, the Repubs don't care about the economy, but they do care about staying in power and if the economy starts to spiral again SOLELY and WELL-KNOWN because of their bullishness in not raising taxes on the wealthiest, they will lose whatever power they have left.

        We all made this journey for a reason. -- President Barack Obama (February 10, 2007)

        by arabian on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 05:02:48 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  There was a exit poll that said 53 % of Americans (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Deep Texan, Russgirl

        will blame the Republicans if we go off the Fiscal curb because they opposed ending the Bush the tax cuts..

  •  Because if they don't then Obama will round (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Thousandwatts, Cedwyn, white blitz

    them up and send them to the FEMA reeducation camps?

    (the above is obviously snark)

    You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

    by Throw The Bums Out on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:14:59 AM PST

    •  See, that's what I'm getting at.... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Throw The Bums Out, Russgirl

      ...there really is no reason for them to give into anything Obama wants, because that would help our economy and make the President look good, which totally goes against everything they believe in.

      Obama seems to have the upper hand right now, but he needs the economy to get better more than the Republicans do, and so far no one can tell me why it is they should actually extend the tax cuts on the middle class or even try to do something about the sequester on defense.

      The Repubs WANT to see defense cuts so they can accuse Obama of being weak on defense. It all plays into their narrative.

      •  they can't build narratives that shape (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        or change minds anymore.  well not enough of them.

        i've said the same things...  they have no motive for working with obama. nothing to gain.  everything to gain by continuing their obstruction.

        we'll see a rule change in the senate and that will put pressure on the house.

        -You want to change the system, run for office.

        by Deep Texan on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 06:19:52 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Send all the (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Throw The Bums Out

      secession petition signers to the FEMA camps too!!!

  •  The "promise" of reduced tax rates to (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eXtina, lurkmodeallthetime

    corporations is designed to encourage those corporations to deliver the votes of their work force and secure the jobs of Congressional incumbents. The only thing Congress critters care about is their own longevity in office and the power to inflict damage that comes with it. Since the corporations did not deliver enough votes and the Republican majority is slipping (people sponsored by the Tea Party, btw, are not reliable Republicans), if the corporations want to escape punishment, they'd better make nice now.
    In the age of universal suffrage and freedom of information and grassroots and social networking, the Congressional elites have only one concern -- how to keep their traditional powers without having to do any work. The Senate has not been described as a club for nothing. The old timers are fully subscribed to "talk softly and carry a big stick." Their obeisance to the executive is just pro forma.

    We organize governments to provide benefits and prevent abuse.

    by hannah on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:18:37 AM PST

  •  Even if Boehner can count higher than 10... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    white blitz

    and can recognize that a tax increase is both necessary and unavoidable, that does not mean for an instant that his psychotic tea-bagger caucus will bow to reality.

    Not gonna happen. The anti-tax fundamentalist lunatics simply cannot yield on this. It'd be like the Pope sleeping with a hooker.

  •  Because they can read polls (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cedwyn, wwjjd, Deep Texan

    They know that the Republican Congress will be blamed. They are being blamed for the situation we are in now.  Many of the Republicans don't care about 2014, they are in safe districts.  However, there are a few who seem to understand how the GOP brand is being hurt and will come to the table.  If they we're serious about the debt they would be good with all of this happening.  In 10 years the deficit and thus the debt would be much smaller.  I think that for House Republicans it would be easier to do this in the new Congress because of the Grover Norquist pledge.

    •  Yeah, but so what if the Congress is blamed? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      white blitz

      The Congress went into this election with a 10% approval rating and they only lost 7 or 8 seats!

      I think they've got their heads so far up their asses on taxes that it doesn't matter what their polls say.

      They NEED the economy to fail, so why would they start helping Obama fix it now?

      Pressure is the only thing I see that could sway some of these people and I'm not sure if we're good enough at exerting it on them in order for them to actually pass what the people voted for.

      •  It didn't work (4+ / 0-)

        How well did blamining Obama do for the Republicans last week?  Let's see...
        Obama wins a landslide EV and has a nice lead in the popular vote.
        Scott Brown lost and there will be more Democrats in the Senate.
        Joe Walsh & Allen West lost, Michelle Bachman barely won and the residents of Janesville finally figured out the Paul Ryan is a republican.  There are more Democrats in the House.  
        Fewer members of the new Congress have signed the Grover pledge, not just because there are more Democrats, so that helps with the "I'll be an adult" factor.
        If they can't vote for a tax hike then in a few short weeks they can all vote for a tax cut.  
        Right now people are not blaming Obama they blame the Republicans in congress.  If the President continues to try to push his plan then he wins.

        •  It did work (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          witness 2010.  And it can certainly happen again in 2014.

          •  Then it is hopeless (0+ / 0-)

            There is nothing we can do so just give in to the Republicans.  The Democrats have learned nothing since the 2010 election.

            •  I don't see any indication Democrats have lost the (0+ / 0-)

              yellow streak.

              Send conservatives to for re-education.

              by filthyLiberalDOTcom on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 06:11:42 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  I really hope (0+ / 0-)

              that Democrats have a better strategy this time.  Because, from my vantage, Republicans are just going to continue to  scream "Benghazi" and "Petraeus" and refuse to talk about anything else.

            •  I don't mean that it's hopeless.... (0+ / 0-)

              it's just that we can't sit around kidding ourselves in thinking that they'll come to the table offering anything serious.

              Only pressure being exerted on them will work and I'm worried that progressives are just sitting back hoping to see Obama wave a magic wand around or that Pelosi and the Democrats will magically peel away 18-20 Republicans.

              That won't happen.

              What will do the trick is bugging the Republicans day and night with tweets and petitions and letters and voicemails. Don't let up until they give in.

              What's more, the President should do what the President did in that movie The Contender, which is have a prime-time address where he forces an up or down vote on national teevee in order to clarify who exactly is voting for the middle class tax cuts and who is not.

              We won. But we're too afraid to govern with strength.

          •  it only worked in 2010 because of massive (0+ / 0-)

            unemployment and fake grass roots organizing by republicans to rebrand.

            can't do that again.  their tea party candidates are losing.

            -You want to change the system, run for office.

            by Deep Texan on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 06:21:34 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  And if (0+ / 0-)

              Republicans refuse to deal on the tax cuts and they affect the economy negatively, how is this different?

              Historically, the 6th year of a president's term end up in big losses for the president's party.  I hope that when (not if) Republican obstruction causes real harm to our economy and our nation, Democrats have a way to hang it on them.

              Guess we'll know in a couple of months.

              •  we gained pts in this area (0+ / 0-)

                they lost them.  unemployment is under 8%.

                you know i follow history and the future will be very similar to the past, right up until it isn't.

                like the election and re-election of Obama.  it was historical for many reason, both elections were.

                -You want to change the system, run for office.

                by Deep Texan on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 06:33:18 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

      •  Democrats are cowards and don't know (0+ / 0-)

        how, or are completely unwilling to exert pressure. They are afraid to fight hard and dirty and effectively against fascists who will do and say anything. I've seen this so many times I'm truly sick of them. We so need a third party (or maybe fourth, once teapartycrazy splinters off).

        Send conservatives to for re-education.

        by filthyLiberalDOTcom on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 06:13:34 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  George Washington answered your (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    question in his Farewell Address. He warned us about "cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men." Human nature has not changed, so the Republicans in office will do what "cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men" do. They will cunningly calculate what course of action will help them achieve their ambitions, no matter what principles they may throw overboard along the way.

    Might and Right are always fighting, in our youth it seems exciting. Right is always nearly winning, Might can hardly keep from grinning. -- Clarence Day

    by hestal on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:25:10 AM PST

  •  because if nothing happens (8+ / 0-)

    the tax cuts expire for everyone and the sequester kicks in.  the sequester contains a 10% defense cut, but exempts SS, medicare, UI and all that good stuff.

    the 113th congress has fewer house GOP and teabaggers, and a stronger dem majority in the senate.

    so boehner can compromise and only piss norquist off a little, or they can reach no deal and taxes go up, at which point the next congress can extend the tax cuts for the lower brackets, where boehner/GOP get nothing for it.

    Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

    by Cedwyn on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:31:37 AM PST

    •  This is what happens when you predicate (5+ / 0-)

      your entire strategy on your belief that you are going to win the next election. They kicked the can past the election on the premise that they would be able to come in a fix all of the bad stuff (to them).  That is probably the biggest takeaway from discussions of the Republican "bubble".  It turns out that not only did they believe they couldn't lose, they made policy based on that assumption. So this election is a growing disaster for them.

      "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

      by stellaluna on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 04:53:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  oh absolutely (4+ / 0-)

        they kicked this can because they were sure there would be a GOP president right now.

        sucks to be them!

        Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

        by Cedwyn on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 05:12:03 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  there's also the 2013 budget (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Deep Texan, TheLizardKing

        due out februaryish.  if boehner doesn't play ball now, his options will be very limited.

        Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

        by Cedwyn on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 06:15:33 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  why does this entire thing have to involve (0+ / 0-)

        th ehouse leadership...obama cant get 35 repubs to go along with the democrats in the house???  there's 14 pennsylvania
        republican house members--you're gonna tell me we can't pick one off?  regan had the boll weevil dems to do his bidding; bush
        the younger had dem support for certain initiatives.

        can't the president twist some low level arms?? forget boehner

        •  Regan and Bush had co-operative Dems to work with (0+ / 0-)

          while Obama governs over a teabagger caucus where at least half of them think he's the anti-Christ and the other half thinks the jury is still out on whether he's American.

          Gimme a break, what kind of arm-twisting can he do on these biggots other than publicly shame them on national tv by addressing the nation from Congress and forcing an up or down vote right there on teevee!

  •  Ans: Changing public opinion (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wwjjd, Deep Texan, TheLizardKing

    Republicans want to win elections too.

  •  Because they have no hand (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wwjjd, Deep Texan, TheLizardKing

    they have no negotiating leverage. They will be blamed for raising middle class tax rates

    "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

    by eXtina on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 05:31:54 AM PST

  •  Depends on Which Republicans. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The dedicated tea baggers will not budge.

    It all depends on how many more pragmatic Boehner types there are, and whether the lessons of the election will move enough of the nonbaggers that they can put together a coalition that will compromise.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 05:33:37 AM PST

  •  I think you raise a good point. There are (0+ / 0-)

    "reasons" why they will go along, but since when does reason figure into the Repubs actions.  There is way too much consensus around here and in the media that Obama has the upper hand and that the Repubs can't do what they've been doing for the past 3.5 years to make me think it will go as so many think.  But then, I'm a contrarian by nature, which in the long run tends to be advantageous.  Just look at Warren Buffet. [For the record, though, I am not a multi-billionaire. :)]

    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

    by accumbens on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 06:09:26 AM PST

  •  Obama will cave. He's done it so many times (0+ / 0-)

    all Republicans have to do is hang tough. There's no reason they should cooperate with his weak track record of facing them down. And here's the sick part - after he caves he'll tell us what a success the "bipartisan" talks were.

    Send conservatives to for re-education.

    by filthyLiberalDOTcom on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 06:10:36 AM PST

    •  completely wrong (0+ / 0-)

      obama set them up and now we are going reap the rewards of winning.

      -You want to change the system, run for office.

      by Deep Texan on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 06:24:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I hope you are right. I really do. But (0+ / 0-)

        I, personally, will not be surprised to see the cave in. He has become predictable. And I really, really hope I am wrong.

        Send conservatives to for re-education.

        by filthyLiberalDOTcom on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 10:25:26 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  sure you do (0+ / 0-)

          -You want to change the system, run for office.

          by Deep Texan on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 11:35:52 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You know what, you shit kicking dumb ass? (0+ / 0-)

            Why don't you visit my site some time and then tell me how much I love fox news, how much I hate liberals, and how much I dislike the President, and how much I would lie about this. If you do that and still can't form an accurate image of what I think then you truly represent the Texas intellect I'm suspecting you possess. Understand this: Obama is NOT a progressive, he's center with a rightward leaning aspect. Don't expect him to fight for SSecurity if he can make a deal with the Republicans using it as a bargaining chip. I expect him to cave and spin it as a "win", and I will state, again, wether you believe it or on, that I truly hope he does not. But I expect it. Now do your homework. If you can't figure out that I'm actually a liberal and well grounded in reality then I don't know what else to tell you because clearly you're reacting in a knee jerk manner to my posts and it's idiotic if you actually understood where I'm coming from.

            Send conservatives to for re-education.

            by filthyLiberalDOTcom on Fri Nov 16, 2012 at 07:46:41 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Because Obama has them (5+ / 0-)

    by the balls, that's why. Here's how it works: If nothing is done, everyone's taxes revert to Clinton era rates. Obama proposes essentially a new round of cuts for the middle class. Republicans refuse, unless their wealthy patrons are included. So, who looks like the ones standing in the way of cutting taxes for the middle class? Who will be seen as allowing taxes to increase on the average Joe? They will have to go on record voting against a bill--let's call it the Obama Tax Fairness Act, maybe Obamafair for short--to prevent a tax hike on every American. Their chief tactic, just say "no", will not work this time.

    Obama has their shriveled little scrotums firmly in hand, and they know it.

    "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

    by happy camper on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 06:14:33 AM PST

  •  hopefully they don't cave (0+ / 0-)

    and the tax cuts expire.

    it's a win win for us.  the public is going to blame them more so than us.

    -You want to change the system, run for office.

    by Deep Texan on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 06:17:32 AM PST

  •  You might want to put a comma between your tags, (0+ / 0-)

    otherwise it is just one long tag that probably won't help anyone.

    "I cannot live without books" -- Thomas Jefferson, 1815

    by Susan Grigsby on Thu Nov 15, 2012 at 06:52:35 AM PST

  •  Getting rid of ALL Bush Tax Cuts (0+ / 0-)

    That will cost me as a middle member of the Middle Class a grand total of $36.00 a month or about a dozen beers at my favorite watering hole.

    A price I'd gladly pay in order to make folks like Romney pay their fair share.  This so called Fiscal Reset is really about making EVERYBODY sacrifice and pay their fair share.

  •  Who cares? (0+ / 0-)

    A return to Clinton era tax cuts will be a short term shock, but nothing fatal. In fact, in the long run, we're better off at the former rates.
      And the Southerners in the TPub coalition will be desperate to avoid defense cuts. Just get a list of military bases in key TPub districts and start announcing closings. Also...weapons systems in progress headed for the crapper.
      The administration holds the hostages now. There is no reaon for him to compromise with these guys...unless he buys into the Villager conventional wisdom.

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