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On the Election Day edition of Daystar's Joni, while guest Kelly Shackelford of the Liberty Institute was mentioning the story about a high school valedictorian from Texas who wanted to say a prayer during her graduation speech, Joni Lamb (the show's host and also the co-host of Celebration with her husband Marcus) made a quote attacking anyone who didn't conform to her very narrow worldview by stating that "if you don't like that America is a [conservative] 'Christian Nation', then you shouldn't live here."

Also at the table was notorious history revisionist liar David Barton, Benita Arterberry, and Cindy Murdock.

Dear Joni, I have some news to break to you: America has NOT been a "Christian Nation" (except demographically), despite what many people of your ilk like to wish it as such.

From the 11.06.2012 edition of Daystar's Joni:

Right Wing Watch:

During the discussion, Shackelford mentioned a legal fight that took place in Texas last year over a high-school valedictorian who wanted to say a prayer during her graduation speech.  The student ultimately won the right to do so, which prompted host Joni Lamb to declare it a victory for free speech, saying "that if you live in America and you understand that we are a Christian society then you can't be offended by things like that or you shouldn't live here."

Originally posted to JGibson on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 01:37 PM PST.

Also republished by Street Prophets .

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Comment Preferences

  •  Is it War on Christmas time already? (18+ / 0-)

    Jeez, earlier and earlier these days.

    I don't blame Christians. I blame Stupid. Which sadly is a much more popular religion these days.

    by detroitmechworks on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 01:49:35 PM PST

  •  'Ware the tyranny of the majority (9+ / 0-)

    After all, a majority currently supports marriage equality for same-sex couples.   By their own "love it or leave it" logic, all those opposed to marriage equality had better start packing, tout suite.

    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

    by lgmcp on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 01:54:17 PM PST

  •  Still searching my copy of the Constitution... (13+ / 0-)

    for any mention of a "Christian Nation".

    Nope, not there. Nada, zilch, zip, zero, nuthin'

    You'd think they would have mentioned it once or twice if they thought it was that important.

  •  What the hell is Daystar? (5+ / 0-)

    When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That is my religion. - Abraham Lincoln

    by EntrWriter on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 02:01:11 PM PST

    •  Kind of the "Hostess" of religious programming (5+ / 0-)

      from what I can tell.  Every once in a while I bump the rabbit ears and I can pick it up here in Columbus, and it's always been some kind of oddball community access gospel hour thing.

      "If the Senate, in its wisdom, wants to vote down John Bolton, that's a verdict we can accept ... but the post cannot remain unfilled." - John McCain, June 2005

      by here4tehbeer on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 02:11:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  There are a whole boatload of "Christian" (6+ / 0-)

      cable channels that devote 95% of their time begging for money. Daystar is one of them. Televangelists 24 hours a day. Funny story though. There is a guy in the Tampa area on one of these channels on Saturday nights for one hour. He never asks for money.  Spends most of his time denouncing  the money hungry televangelists. Invites people down to his small church for service and free lunch afterward. And he has a booming Northern Irish voice that bellows damnation of the televangelists. And like I said he never asks for money.

      •  My husband has discovered the channel (2+ / 0-)

        owned by Jimmy Swaggart and his family. Sometimes late at night,  he goes there and eats popcorn and sips wine. Says it's the best comedy channel.  They HATE Catholics. I suspect your Northern Irish guy does too. Is his name Iain Paisly, by chance?

        The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

        by irishwitch on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 04:11:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  The basic problem is that many people, who claim (5+ / 0-)

    to be Christians, are simply pursuing their own agenda and calling it Christianity.  Christianity, at its core, is concerned with inclusiveness, with being a type of spiritual umbrella which shields even non-Christians from adverse circumstances.  Once, when Jesus was informed that his mother and siblings wanted to speak with him, Jesus responded that his family was composed of those people whose actions comport with the Will of God, i.e., those people who routinely treat each other right.  Thus, Christianity's central rule, as taught by Jesus, is the simple requirement that we all learn to love one another.  Those who would erect any type of barrier between individuals are Christians in name only.

    •  And that's not the only time Jesus was rude (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      to his mother!  

      By the way, Jesus was never a Christian, and he said he came only for the Jews.  One of his "simple requirements' also was that grown men should leave their wives and children to fend for themselves while they go off wandering around listening to sermons from a cult leader.

      What's the message there?

      Never mind. And you can keep that umbrella- thanks!

    •  Here, let me fix that for you: (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Marti, CherryTheTart

      Christianity, at its core, used to be concerned with inclusiveness, with being a type of spiritual umbrella which shields even non-Christians from adverse circumstances.

      202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

      by cany on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 03:52:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Kooks like this batshit brained lunatic lady (7+ / 0-)

    are an embarrassment to this country, and I really don't think that they should live here.....

    About 20 or so years ago, I really believed in a live and let live society, each goes about on their path.  But now these psychopathic christians changed my mind about that when they started to try and shove their views down my throat.  

    Since then, I realized that fighting right back against this tyranny is a necessary option.

  •  what to do with people like that: (9+ / 0-)

    Get right in their face and say, in an indignant tone as if talking to someone who just peed on your shoe (feel free to edit as needed;-)

    "You anti-Semitic son of a bitch!  (note 1) I'll bet if it was World War 2 right now you'd be wanting to make peace with the Nazis!"  [YES go there!]  "You're not standing with Jesus, you're standing with the God damned (note 2) Pharisees!  You should be ashamed of yourself!" (note 3)

    Generalization: they are expecting you to get all "explainy" and "back-downy" and in general submit & surrender.  What they don't expect is that you'll roll up your sleeves and fight back strongly enough to send them spinning down the whirlpool of verbal oblivion.  So DO IT.  



    1)  Yes we know the B-word is a not-nice word.  But the flow and rhythm of the words works out nicely using the SOB cuss here.

    2)  The G.D. cuss is also pretty heavy stuff but it'll pass on TV and it'll shock these people, and the seriousness of it (in effect asking the deity to condemn them) will make very clear that you're not backing down.  

    3)   "You should be ashamed of yourself" is strongly parental, and will typically push someone into a reaction that's characteristic of their age range as of the last time that one of their parents said that to them.  

    We got the future back.

    by G2geek on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 02:21:38 PM PST

    •  I bet you are popular at cocktail parties. nm (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:


      •  I live in GA. I run into these idiots. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I don't do holidays with the in-laws because we have to put up with this caap. I had 16 years of Catholic education, and while I stopped being Catholic at age 20, the nuns trained me to be polite which means I put up with a lot of ignorant and insulting comments about anyone who isn't the Right Kind of Christian from the niecds does. Instead I'd sit there and THINK it, and end up with a migraine.  Really, why do we have to be nice when they aren't?

        The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

        by irishwitch on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 04:17:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I agree that we're a Christian society. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    US Blues, CherryTheTart

    It's the source of all of our problems, starting with the pervasive cruelty that's co-defined our country (in tension with a whole lot of good stuff, none of it religiously derived) pretty much from its origins.  And that's why Christianity has to be extirpated from our civil culture.  

    You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

    by Rich in PA on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 02:35:08 PM PST

  •  Your title quote is completely misleading (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    You have twisted the actual quote to get people to view your Dairy.  You could have addressed the "christian nation" ideal without misquoting those you seek to criticize.

    Additionally, it is a victory for free speech.  Just as an atheist has a right to say what they want, if they are valedictorian.  I would defend their right or yours as an American, to say what you like, regardless if I agree or not.  

    •  You're the one who doesn't get it. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      that if you live in America and you understand that we are a Christian society then you can't be offended by things like that or you shouldn't live here."
      What part of that don't you grasp? She said if you're not a Christian, and don't think this is a Christian nation, you should leave.  She may CLAIM to be defending free speech, but would she do so if it had been an atheist valedictorian whop wanted to read a passage from Bertrand Russell? I doubt it.

      There were  enforced prayers over the loudspeakers at public high schools before Football games.  The case I am thinking of  had a coalition of parents--Jewish, Catholic and Mormon--who didn't try to get prayers banned but merely asked that the prayer be lrd by clergy of different faiths, rather than the one fundy asshole who always led it--allow it to recognize religious diversity. School board refused.  

      I doubt this broad would ahve been happy if the girl has been Muslim. Or Hindu. Or WIccan. Prayer is only good to these people and "free speech" if it's CHristian.

      The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

      by irishwitch on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 04:24:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's likely to get pretty old, defending the free (0+ / 0-)

      speech of bat-shit crazy bigots who would happily flush you down their terlit if you didn't/don't believe what they believe.  I'm all for free speech.  It doesn't have to be polite free speech, or even reasonable, but I kinda figure the founding fathers thought free speech ought to be both those much as possible...unless you're dealing with one's oppressors.  No one is oppressing these assholes.

      The longer I live, the clearer I perceive how unmatchable a compliment one pays when he says of a man "he has the courage to utter his convictions." Mark Twain

      by Persiflage on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 05:05:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I take issue with your claim (0+ / 0-)
      Additionally, it is a victory for free speech.  Just as an atheist has a right to say what they want, if they are valedictorian.  I would defend their right or yours as an American, to say what you like, regardless if I agree or not.  
      Various kinds of art and actions have been protected as free speech over the years, so it's not just about verbal utterances.

      Imagine if the valedictorian had wanted to sacrifice a goat.  Free speech?  

      The valedictorian can talk all day about what she believes and why I should accede to her authority on the matter, no problem.  But as soon as she compels a captive audience (these are high school students, remember) to participate in a religious ritual, that is not speech in the protected sense.  

      I have no special knowledge on the matter, it's a matter of common sense.

  •  I'm pretty sure I'm going to convert to (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    irishwitch, CherryTheTart

    Unitarian Universalism.

    These Jesus Freaks are NUTS!!!

    "I believe more women should carry guns. I believe armed women will make the world a better place. Women need to come to think of themselves not as victims but as dangerous." Anna Pigeon

    by glorificus on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 03:09:27 PM PST

  •  If all non-Christians did leave the country (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    then the various sects of Christians would turn on each other for being non "True" Christians.

  •  Why should I leave a country just because it is (0+ / 0-)

    infested with an obscene corruption of the Jewish wisdom teachings of Jesus, a Jew from birth to death?

    The fact that Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and the Ku Klux Klan are all voting Republican is all the reason I need to vote straight Democratic

    by ZedMont on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 04:47:05 PM PST

  •  Republished to Street Prophets. nt (0+ / 0-)
  •  This is the war against (0+ / 0-)

    all of us who do not fall in line with what these people want. They have no time or respect for anyone who does not toe their line. If I listen to them the fires of Hell await me I will bring the hot dog whos got the marshmallow's?

  •  Four minds (0+ / 0-)

    without a single intelligent thought.

    "There ain't no sanity clause." Chico Marx

    by DJ Rix on Mon Nov 19, 2012 at 06:51:46 PM PST

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