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The New York Times takes apart the Republican counteroffer to President Obama's fiscal cliff plan:
Which programs would be cut? The letter doesn’t say, and Republicans don’t seem to care, as long as they blindly achieve their goal of cutting a big chunk out of government. The offer was a transparent attempt to appear responsive to Mr. Obama’s detailed proposal from last week, without doing any actual math or hard work.

If Mr. Boehner had used a calculator, for example, he would have discovered it is impossible to produce $800 billion in revenue from eliminating deductions without severely curtailing the deduction for charitable donations, which is vital to the nonprofit sector. Doing so without limiting the charitable deduction would inevitably raise taxes on the middle class, as nonpartisan analysts have concluded, and would have a much greater effect on the upper middle class than on the very rich.

The only way to produce the necessary revenue is to combine some limits on deductions with an end to the Bush tax cuts on the rich, and Mr. Obama, fortunately, has been adamant he will not consider any plan that does not do so. The Boehner letter, by contrast, actually advocates lowering rates, suggesting that Republicans are still clinging to the notion, rejected by voters, that was put forward by Mitt Romney.

Goldie Taylor at MNSBC:
We learned last week that Romney 's pollster was relying on bad math based on bad assumptions, and I think here again you have the republican party doing the same thing. what are we talking about? Closing loopholes to try to fix the gap. We already had that conversation in the context of the election, and a number of economists said that that wouldn't work, which is part of the reason that the president is insisting on this conversation about the rates set for the top 2%. What do we hear about? the job creators. time and again. Governor Romney was not able to convince a majority of americans that by protecting the job creators and trickle down economics, we were going to solve our problem. 53% of americans thought he favored the rich and wasn't going to help the middle class for the poor. I think it's a deeper problem. Most of the rhetoric sounds a lot like the Romney plan.
Indeed, the AP lede calls the Republican counteroffer what it is -- a rehash of the same, uncredible policies offered during the election:
Republicans are proposing a "fiscal cliff" plan that revives ideas from failed budget talks with President Barack Obama last year, calling for raising the eligibility age for Medicare, lowering cost-of-living hikes for Social Security benefits and bringing in $800 billion in higher tax revenue.
Since Republicans know their plan wasn't a serious one, Jonathan Karl at ABC News reports that Republicans are prepping this gameplan:
Republicans are seriously considering a Doomsday Plan if fiscal cliff talks collapse entirely.  It’s quite simple:  House Republicans would allow a vote on extending the Bush middle class tax cuts (the bill passed in August by the Senate) and offer the President nothing more:  no extension of the debt ceiling, nothing on unemployment, nothing on closing loopholes.  Congress would recess for the holidays and the president would face a big battle early in the year over the debt ceiling.

Two senior Republican elected officials tell me this doomsday plan is becoming the most likely scenario.  A top GOP House  leadership aide confirms the plan is under consideration, but says Speaker Boehner has made no decision on whether to pursue it.
Under one variation of this Doomsday Plan, House Republicans would allow a vote on extending only the middle class tax cuts and Republicans, to express disapproval at the failure to extend all tax cuts, would vote “present” on the bill, allowing it to pass entirely on Democratic votes.

Alex Seitz-Wald at Salon:
Essentially, Republicans are proposing a way to preserve tax cuts for the wealthy by likely increasing taxes on the middle class, even if just a little.
Meanwhile, also at Salon, David Woolner argues that Obama needs to channel FDR. Woolner says that the best way forward for the country is to fixate less on debt/deficit and more on much-needed stimulus:
Roughly three-quarters of a century ago, when faced with a similar set of circumstances—including a conservative right that was fond of labeling his policies socialist—Franklin Roosevelt did not shy away from addressing the conditions that led to the collapse of the world’s economy. He well understood—as did the millions of Americans who lived in or on the threshold of poverty—that “the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself.” He also understood that “the Federal debt, whether it be twenty-five billions or forty billions, can only be paid if the Nation obtains a vastly increased citizen income…The higher the national income goes the faster will we be able to reduce the total of Federal and state and local debts. Viewed from every angle, today’s purchasing power—the citizens’ income of today—is not at this time sufficient to drive the economic system of America at higher speed.”
Woolner is absolutely correct that we need a more robust discussion on income inequality and corresponding policies to help remedy the wage crisis. In the meantime, though, you know the president is doing something right when you have conservatives whining that he's "going to far." Michael Gerson:
Either of these heavy-handed strategies — the budget overreach or the attack on the filibuster — could backfire. Taken together, they might light Obama’s inaugural festivities in a glow of burning bridges.
And Marc Thiessen:
Congressional Republicans need to buck up — Obama and the Democrats are overplaying their hand.
Eugene Robinson gets the win for calling out this concern trolling for what it is:
How dare he? President Obama, I mean: How dare he do what he promised during the campaign? How dare he insist on a “balanced approach” to fiscal policy that includes a teensy-weensy tax increase for the rich? Oh, the humanity.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Doomsday Plan: Bring it on (15+ / 0-)

    They think they will get "equal billing" for not standing in the way of extending current taxation for the bottom 98%.

    When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative. --Martin Luther King Jr.

    by Egalitare on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 04:42:21 AM PST

    •  Bring it on, indeed. (5+ / 0-)

      Then lay the groundwork for 2014 by relentlessly pummeling the utterly worthless do-nothing Republican Congress and its economic flat-earthers for the next two years.

      •  I like your sentiment, but bills DO have to get... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skohayes, IL clb, Stude Dude

        ... passed.

        That said, a series of talks to the people - with graphics and clips from the campaign, if necessary, to remind us what was at issue - could be quite devastating to the GOP.

        This is a president who has the rhetorical skill to take the big issues of politics directly to the American public. He could make things as "as simple as possible", carve away all the Capitol Hill machinations of procedure and put the questions to be decided in context, not in pollster form, but in the form of sensible choices and tradeoffs.

        I like this You're-smart-enough-to-see-through-this approach to voters over breaking crockery up on the Hill for two years. It would hold the hope of actually getting something done, educate the media and some of the voters and it would pave the way to the Election of 2014 and a new way to govern.

        (This Barack Obama version of FDR's fireside speeches might well drive the GOP apoplectic. More apoplectic.)

        2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

        by TRPChicago on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 05:30:16 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Nothing is going to get done (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SuetheRedWA, Minnesota Deb

          Nothing HAS gotten done in the last 2 years.  They're not interested in getting anything done.  The only way anything will get done is if we beat them to a bloody pulp and make them work with us.  End this filibuster nonsense in the Senate for starters.  Campaign in their hometown from now til 2014.  Let them take us off this cliff all to protect their uber rich sugar daddies and then lay the blame at their feet.  Follow them everywhere videotaping their every move, their every glass of $1000/bottle champagne.  Make them regret ever going to DC to do the bidding of a few rich assholes.

          This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

          by DisNoir36 on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 05:39:13 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Start the groundwork NOW (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skohayes, Stude Dude

        for starters Virginia has a gubernatorial race in 2013.  Maybe the Dems should start laying the ground work now there to take Virginia back from these Cooch led teabagging nutsacks.  Then maybe after that the Dems can draw up some fairer districts in Virginia.  As opposed to the crap 3D-8R map that's there now where the Dems are packed into 3 60% districts.  

        The Dems should also start targeting every single GOoPer who won by 10% or less in 2012.  Let their voters know they're the ones screwing us all in exchange for gifts to their sugar daddies.  

        The only way we take back the House and stop this fucking insanity is to hit them early and hit them hard.  Keep hitting them until they're down and then kick and stomp them for good measure.  

        This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

        by DisNoir36 on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 05:34:04 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Doomsday plan (13+ / 0-)

      spells more doom for us.  Once again these rat fucks are more than willing to screw us all in exchange for more gifts to their uber wealthy sugar daddies.  

      Fuck them.  If that's the way they want to play, I say we not only go over the cliff/curb but let the gov't default when the debt ceiling hostage negotiations inevitably occur.  Then blame the GOP for the mess they created.  Hang it over their heads like a fucking noose and tighten the rope.  Watch them squirm and hang on the rope as we keep feeding them more to hang off from.  

      Frankly, I'll make up the $17 a week I currently get in my tax cuts.  I've already managed to cut a considerable amount from my expenses and my situation cannot get much worse.  I want the uber rich to pay their share as well.  These bastards drained our economy and put us in this goddamn hole with their tax cuts and their stupid and illegal wars and their subsidies to the oil, and PHARMA industries.  They're STILL living large while we all suffer in this economy they fucking tanked.  Make them pay for it.  Larry Blankfein motherfucker extraordinaire has a giant set of balls to go on TV and tell us we need to make cuts to my Social Security and Medicare which I've been paying into for 26 years now all because we had to bail his motherfucking ass out every which way til Sunday after the economy tanked in large part to him and greedy motherfuckers like him.  

      These assholes STILL don't get it.  Either they pay up or the sans culottes are going to go French Revolution on them.  That's your counteroffer, you fucking orange dildo.  The middle class won't tolerate our social safety net being ripped to pieces all so you can give more money to rich bastards who don't need any more.  NO amount of hostage taking will stop us.  We spoke up loudly in November when we rejected your nominee.  We spoke up in far greater numbers than the 47% your piece of shit candidate got.  So if you want to bring on your bullshit Doomsday plan, then fucking bring it on.  It will be your doom, not ours.  We have very little else to lose at this point thanks to you and your party's bullshit policies.   Our doomsday already happened.

      This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

      by DisNoir36 on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 05:09:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I love it that one of the Doomsday Plan (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      alrdouglas

      variations includes Republicans abstaining, so that only Democrats will be voting to extend the middle class tax cuts.
      Giving credit to the Dems for tax cuts-- great idea there, Republicans! Go for it!

  •  Meanie Obama is mean to GOP Assholes (4+ / 0-)

    "Rick Perry talks a lot and he's not very bright. And that's a combination I like in Republicans." --- James Carville

    by LaurenMonica on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 04:42:43 AM PST

  •  Pretty interesting stuff. (4+ / 0-)

    Haven't seen this kind fight over the size and nature of government in a long time.

    Hope the president's communication team is rested and ready to go.

    Show us your tax returns !!!!!!

    by Bush Bites on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 04:44:28 AM PST

  •  Republicans losing blame game on fiscal cliff (14+ / 0-)
    A majority of Americans say that if the country goes over the fiscal cliff on Dec. 31, congressional Republicans should bear the brunt of the blame, according to a new Washington Post-Pew Research Center poll, the latest sign that the GOP faces a perilous path on the issue between now and the end of the year.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by Greg Dworkin on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 04:45:07 AM PST

    •  Republicans didn't believe the polls (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skohayes

      on the election, either, and see how that worked out for them.  If they shut down the government or hold the country's ability to pay its debts hostage, the majority of Americans (including the upper 2%) will be out for blood.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 05:08:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  check out Roger Simon today (4+ / 0-)
        Unfortunately, this is more than sour grapes. It is another attempt to delegitimize Obama. The first attempt was the “birther” movement, which tried to make his 2008 victory illegitimate by claiming Obama had not been born in the United States. (That in 2012 Romney warmly and publicly embraced Donald Trump, the most high-profile person to question Obama’s birthplace, speaks for itself.)

        But birtherism failed to catch on. And now it has been replaced with the theory of “racial destiny”: Obama was born a minority and so minorities (and anyone else who can be easily bribed) will vote for him. Simple as that.

        http://www.politico.com/...

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 05:32:12 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Roger Simon is, how can I say it delicately? (0+ / 0-)

          an idiot. and a water boy for the RWNJ's.

          "I'm totally pro-choice in the matter of abortion. But of course I'm also so radically pro-life that I think every person from birth onward must have full and affordable access to healthcare." - Gail Collins

          by gritsngumbo on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 07:38:32 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Greg - these same people didn't have (0+ / 0-)

          any problem with McCain's being born outside the United States.  I don't remember anyone's questioning his legitimacy as a candidate.

          These people won't stop.  And neither will the Republicans in congress - both houses, both leaders.

          "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

          by SueDe on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 02:54:59 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  While Robinson's piece is excellent (7+ / 0-)

    the above-the-fold, front-page WashPost article treats the Republican 'proposal' as something serious and certainly suggests that Boehner/et al are making a serious effort toward compromise.

    Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

    by A Siegel on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 04:46:27 AM PST

    •  The Post's editorial policy is at best "confused" (4+ / 0-)

      by that Janus personality result of trying to ride two horses even when one is deep into loco weed delusions. Reporting has increasingly faded so that even front page pieces are byline semi opinion pieces.

      Part of the problem is cost cutting with loss of real editors to the point some hilarious and not so amusing blunders pass on to print and web. The main cause is apparently a "business decision" to try to please both sides of the partisan divide; idiotic since the TP/GOP reflexively hates the paper.

      It is still the best paper in the capital region with any amount of readership. The other one is Moonie, a print Faux. There is a right wing rag that litters my driveway along with every other in the neighborhood. That is the sorry, sad state of "journalism" in the United States now with the exception of a very few lighthouses among the rocks.

      The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

      by pelagicray on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 05:21:29 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Editorial policy (Opinion) (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pelagicray, A Siegel

        and Newsroom Policy and Procedures (FACTS) should be two separate and distinct things. Although you would think the Opinion side would at least read the Facts side of their own newspaper to find out what's really going on. Yes, I'm talking to you NYT.

        "I'm totally pro-choice in the matter of abortion. But of course I'm also so radically pro-life that I think every person from birth onward must have full and affordable access to healthcare." - Gail Collins

        by gritsngumbo on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 07:41:29 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  More Mirror-Dodge Drill (0+ / 0-)

    Or if you prefer,every single one of these colossal fights can be broken-down into simple application of cold-war era game theory.

    And now it's all right. it's ok. And you may look the other way. We can try to understand The new york times effect on man.

    by Marcellus Shale on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 04:51:31 AM PST

  •  What a crack up (5+ / 0-)

    watching the Republicans incensed that President Obama is proposing what he campaigned - and won - on. Time to cut in to Jay Carney's press briefing and put a quick end to their theater before the both sides do it/Republicans have a serious offer pundits blur the lines.

    I'm pretty tired of being told what I care about.

    by hulibow on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 04:54:33 AM PST

  •  Whatever you do GOP....don't let Obama have a (4+ / 0-)

    victory....I mean...that would be the end of the world as we know it.

    •  I was thrilled to hear (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      One Opinion

      that my representative, Huelskamp, was thrown off the budget committee (for voting against the leadership too many times, LOL).

      Huelskamp, who lost his seat on the Budget Committee, was particularly stung. The budget is his main issue, and he sent a blistering statement Monday evening, saying “the GOP leadership might think they have silenced conservatives, but removing me and others from key committees only confirms our conservative convictions.”

      “This is clearly a vindictive move, and a sure sign that the GOP establishment cannot handle disagreement,” Huelskamp said.

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 06:33:55 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Just do it! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    maryabein, glitterscale, skohayes

    We've spent over a year now addressing this "cliff."  Why isn't anyone talking about preparations for the inevitable?  Why all the talk about "teh badz thingz iz gonnuh happenz" malarkey?

    We've (1) put a new roof on the house, (2) loaded in 44 bales' worth of blown-in cellulose insulation, (3) replaced the old, leaky, 19th-century windows, given the furnace and A/C unit a complete tune-up and properly sealed all the ductwork, (5) replaced old, inefficient toilets, shower heads, and faucets with a energy-saving units, and (6) paid off the car a full year early.  Our combined savings on the monthly bills alone will more than offset this so-called, dreadful tax hike.

    Bring on that cliff!  We are prepared!

    I count even the single grain of sand to be a higher life-form than the likes of Sarah Palin and her odious ilk.

    by Liberal Panzer on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 05:00:21 AM PST

    •  The dreaded tax hike equals (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      maryabein, ratcityreprobate, skohayes

      me not eating out for pizza with my son every Friday night.  Frankly, my time and money is better spent buying a pizza at Costco, heating it and eating at home watching TV with my son.  

      I think I'll manage.  Already managed far worse.

      This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

      by DisNoir36 on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 05:23:37 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Oh, the humanity, indeed! The Romneys might (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes

    be reduced to ordering all their Thanksgivings from Boston Market!

  •  I like the Republican "Doomsday Plan" (4+ / 0-)

    It preserves the lower tax rates on middle class earners while, Republicans suppose, putting the president in a box over debt ceiling negotiations.  Actually, though, the president will be the one in the driver's seat.  He has the ability to ignore the debt ceiling by invoking the 14th Amendment, and what will the Republicans do then, especially when their Wall Street backers come knocking on their door?

    "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

    by SueDe on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 05:01:45 AM PST

  •  could a member of Daily Kos give the Republicans (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes

    who are willing to walk away from their Norquist written pledge some kind of suitable for framing smiley face / certificate of appreciation? Does anyone have the Photoshop skills to create a certificate of appreciation like that?

    Brand new favorite RSS feed of Daily Kos Radio Podcasts http://kagrox.libsyn.com/rss
    Jobs, Jobs, Jobs

    by We Won on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 05:03:30 AM PST

  •  Hang in there, Mr. President (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes, Minnesota Deb

    Again, I say: Preserving the tax cuts for the first quarter-mil would be nice but if push comes to shove, it would be okay to go over the "cliff." We can do it.

  •  The Doomsday Scenario will not save the GOP. (8+ / 0-)

    They will still have to deal with the Sequester next year and Obama can extract pretty much anything he wants in exchange for foregoing the scheduled defense cuts.  He can veto any kick the can down the road solution to the sequester the GOP comes up with.  Defense contractors will be screaming at them to surrender.

    Boehner is in a tough spot of his own making.  It is fun watching them squirm.

    Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a Republican. But I repeat myself. Harry Truman

    by ratcityreprobate on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 05:04:55 AM PST

    •  Grover Norquist as Dr Strangelove. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Omir the Storyteller, skohayes
    •  It won't save them in 2014. All Democrats (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skohayes

      will have to do is say that this Republican congressman voted "present" instead of voting for middle class tax cuts in order to protect millionaires and billionaires.

      President Obama, January 9, 2012: "Change is hard, but it is possible. I've Seen it. I've Lived it."

      by Drdemocrat on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 05:40:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Or just say they (0+ / 0-)

        "FAILED to vote FOR" the middle class tax cuts. Easier to understand for most.

        "I'm totally pro-choice in the matter of abortion. But of course I'm also so radically pro-life that I think every person from birth onward must have full and affordable access to healthcare." - Gail Collins

        by gritsngumbo on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 07:43:56 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Especially this idea: (0+ / 0-)
      Under one variation of this Doomsday Plan, House Republicans would allow a vote on extending only the middle class tax cuts and Republicans, to express disapproval at the failure to extend all tax cuts, would vote “present” on the bill, allowing it to pass entirely on Democratic votes.
      How is this a net win for the Republicans?

      We don't want our country back, we want our country FORWARD. --Eclectablog

      by Samer on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 07:48:53 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Burning dead end bridges? Ha Gerson! Great! (0+ / 0-)
    Taken together, they might light Obama’s inaugural festivities in a glow of burning bridges.

    The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

    by pelagicray on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 05:05:24 AM PST

      •  Dead end and to nowhere are the ONLY bridges I (0+ / 0-)

        can see involved in the Obama and TP/GOP relationship. I had to chuckle at the image that came to mind along with the old Kelly's Heroes visual memory and song:

        Republicans in Congress and nearly every where else standing over smoking ruins of bridges they'd torched from 2009 on talking about Obama burning bridges.

        Hell, now I'd just recommend throwing some gasoline out there on the embers, turn our back on those idiots and going full bore on driving them from the public forum in disgrace.

        The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. [Elbert Hubbard]

        by pelagicray on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 10:10:28 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  If we're bringing back FDR? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Stude Dude, Minnesota Deb, lurkyloo

    Bring all of FDR back.

    Get people up, off the couch, and into work-for-pay situations.
    WPA and CCC wasn't slavery, it was a good means for a banker to relate to a stevedore, side-by-side laying bricks.

    If the best way to raise revenue is to raise incomes?
    Then let's put people to work in taxable jobs, not funded by the government.

    Receiving 25% back on every dollar spent isn't profit, it's loss.

    Let's eliminate the 1.5 Trillion in loopholes - per the Simpson-Bowles plan, and let's drop the effective rate on persons making less than $140,000 per year.  I'd rather get taxed at 11% and lose the mortgage interest deduction, than my current 28% with it.

    Who doesn't want this?  Realtors, who sold inflated value homes and reap a higher dollar per percentage of sale.
    Bankers who charged 7.8% and said:  "It's really like 3, when you take the deduction."
    No.  It's really like 8.4%, and "the deal" is supposedly on my income taxes.

    A $240,000 house isn't worth $400,000 - ask anyone with that $400,000 house, who's trying to sell it, let-alone remortgage for 3.55%.

    "Your house doesn't appraise well, and we don't do underwater mortgages." - said by the exact same people who sold you the sonofabitch and wrote the mortgage.

    So WHY are we listening to these people, and their industry groups, when re-visiting the tax code???

  •  "Doomsday plan"? HHHHHhhahahahahahaha!!!!!! (5+ / 0-)

    What is the one lever that the GOP has? The Middle Class tax rates. If all else fails, they are going to give up their hostage?
    Channeling Cleavon Little?
    http://www.youtube.com/...
    They've really gone round the bend.

    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

    by CwV on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 05:11:54 AM PST

  •  Republicans have been fighting for a flat tax (0+ / 0-)

    for decades.  Their willingness to do away with tax deductions only gets them closer to their goal  I don't believe that it really helps matters, or helps middle class folks much at all.  The other thing we should be paying attention to are slightly upper middle class people.  These are the folks who will be screwed the most.  The rich pay only a little bit more percentage wise, that really doesn't hurt their bottom line at all, but the people who have made it a little bit out of the middle class, pay the most.  Isn't that what we really want, for everyone, to make it out of the lower income classes and make it to the upper middle class?  We can't really be for keeping people liberally poor.  Sure we want everyone to pay their fair share of taxes, but unless we fight like hell to protect those of us who reach escape velocity and make it out of the realms of the chronically "poor" or the chronically over-taxed middle income tax bracket, what have we to reach for? What do we set as a goal?  It is not just about making money, it is about achievement.  It is about people reaching for the stars, whether that is in the arts, sciences, technology, or business.  It shouldn't be about stifling attainment for the sake of protecting the lower income classes to remain exactly that, it should be about encouraging achievement for everyone so that we have a fair and balanced playing field that encourages, and provides the stepping stones and building blocks, educationally and economically, for anyone to achieve their dream of a decent and fulfilling life within a system of economics that encourages, promotes, and rewards innovation, cooperation, teamwork, hard work, diligence, shared economic gain or loss, and value, .  It takes a village to build a product or a Company that will be successful, the village should get paid, treated with respect, and appreciated for their service.  No one builds success alone or in a vacuum.  But it also isn't worthwhile or life affirming, to throw the baby out with the bath water.  Success should be celebrated and shared, and never demonized if it benefits the most amongst us.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy -7.8., -6.6

    by helpImdrowning on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 05:35:51 AM PST

    •  Marginal rates don't work that way (0+ / 0-)

      If you are only just barely over 250k income, you only pay extra tax on the "just barely" part of your income.

      Pretty much, if you are earning at a high enough rate to qualify for a ~4% increased tax rate, you are already meeting all of your "must have" needs (yes, even in expensive zip codes).

      Someone who makes 300k isn't paying that extra 4% on all of his income.  Only on the last 50K of it.  Which means $1-2000 more in taxes than he pays today.

      I guarantee you (speaking as someone who makes half that), their monthly budget can absorb the extra ~$150 in lost revenue without noticing it a bit.

  •  While those bums are fiddling with their tax (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Minnesota Deb, One Opinion

    loopholes, Rome is burning.  Small businesses, unable to get bank loans or investment, are dropping like flies, acquisitions are delayed because of the uncertainty, and innovative technologies are being put on the shelf.  Anyone who doesn't realize that doesn't own a small business. Many of us are already over the cliff and headed for the rocks below.  But they don't care because they're more interested in who won and who lost The Big Game last month.

  •  I Love the Republican's "Doomsday" Plan (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes, SuetheRedWA, Minnesota Deb

    Or at least Jonathon Karl's version of it.  Frankly, I don't see any downside to it for President Obama & Dems.  And here are the good parts:

    1.

    "Under one variation of this Doomsday Plan, House Republicans would allow a vote on extending only the middle class tax cuts and Republicans, to express disapproval at the failure to extend all tax cuts, would vote “present” on the bill, allowing it to pass entirely on Democratic votes."
    This would give President Obama a clear win in the game of chicken, forcing the passage of the middle-class tax cut this year as he is demanding.  It would separate forever the tax cut for the 98% from any tax cut for the upper 2% and the Republicans would lose that leverage to try to force a tax cut extension for the 2%.  And the sweetest part is that the Republican leadership would try to prevent any House Republican from voting for a middle-class tax cut extension, leaving the Dems. to bask in the political glory and giving us the ability to use the Republican's failure to vote for such a tax cut as a stick to beat them with in 2014.

    2.  

    "House Republicans would allow a vote on extending the Bush middle class tax cuts (the bill passed in August by the Senate) and offer the President nothing more:  no extension of the debt ceiling, nothing on unemployment, nothing on closing loopholes.  Congress would recess for the holidays and the president would face a big battle early in the year over the debt ceiling."
    So they want to push everything else off to the next Congress.  GREAT!  That's the Congress where the Republican's House majority will be 16 instead of 25 seats, making it easier to pick off some Republican moderates who don't want to ruin the Country.  A number of the House Tea Party crazys will be gone.  And, with any luck, the Senate will be working under new filibuster rules which will make it more difficult for Republicans to tie things up in the Senate.  Also, as an added Bonus, a House recess leaving all this unfinished business will leave the Republicans in line as the sole recipients of any consequences.

    The Republican's Doomsday Plan may not be as good as a President Obama's Plan to avoid the fiscal curb this year, but its certainly the next best thing!

    "Some men see things as they are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that never were and ask, 'Why not?"

    by Doctor Who on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 06:00:22 AM PST

  •  Tax rates and job creators (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes, SuetheRedWA, Minnesota Deb

    We know Mitt Romney faced an effective marginal tax rate of 15% or less.  This is a lower effective rate than that paid by many in his income bracket.

    Republicans claim that lower tax rates lead job creators to create jobs.

    Therefore, Mitt Romney should have been an exceptional job creator, no?

    If the theory doesn't work with the Republican standard bearer, then just where should it work?

    •  That whole "job creators" myth (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lurkyloo

      needs to be blown out of the water. The rich are richer than they've ever been, corporations are making record profits and have been for years, and CEO's are still making obscene bonuses. If the lie that the rich are job creators were true, Everyone in the US should have TWO jobs.

  •  What a great word (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Samer, lurkyloo

    "Uncredible."  The word "incredible" means essentially the same thing but has lost its literal meaning; I like "uncredible" a lot and it's a very useful word when writing about anything to do with Republicans.  Good usage.

    Arrrr, the laws of science be a harsh mistress. -Bender B. Rodriguez

    by democracy inaction on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 07:02:48 AM PST

  •  Only in Republican land... (3+ / 0-)
    Republicans are seriously considering a Doomsday Plan if fiscal cliff talks collapse entirely.  It’s quite simple:  House Republicans would allow a vote on extending the Bush middle class tax cuts (the bill passed in August by the Senate) and offer the President nothing more...
    Only Republicans would classify rescuing the middle class/working poor from draconian tax hikes as "Doomsday".
    •  Draconian named after Draco (600 B.C.) (0+ / 0-)

      Draco's wiki:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/..._(lawgiver)
      How appropriate

      The laws, however, were particularly harsh. For example, any debtor whose status was lower than that of his creditor was forced into slavery. The punishment was more lenient for those owing debt to a member of a lower class.

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