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Hey Kos community...a friend of mine is trying to convince me that there has not been any instance of a company relocating to a right-to-work state like South Carolina that has had to import workers because the native workforce of South Carolina (or any other state) is too unskilled.  Can anyone help?  I could have sworn I read something like that before, but I can't seem to locate an article in Google.  Any help is much appreciated.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Much of the Midwest Industrial Belt Starting In (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cassandracarolina, Oh Mary Oh

    the early 1970's.

    The Rubber Capital of the World was Akron Ohio through the 60's. As I recall it started moving south in the 70's.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 11:29:43 AM PST

  •  "RIGHT TO WORK" (0+ / 0-)

    What a joke of a name for a "law".

    We (citizens and ARC-holders, and other immigrants, and non-immigrants on certain visas), ALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO WORK IN THIS COUNTRY!

    Buy Aldus Shrugged : The Antidote to Ayn Rand, and tear Ayn and the GOP new orifices. Plus, I get a small royalty, and Jeff Bezos and his employees get the rest. Not a bad deal, as CEO Bezos is not much of a dick, relatively speaking. @floydbluealdus1

    by Floyd Blue on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 11:34:45 AM PST

  •  The BMW plant in Greenville, SC (3+ / 0-)

    had to import workers temporarily when it opened.

    I lived there at the time, and knew a ton of Ohioans, New Yorkers, and Michiganders that relocated there temporarily to train the local hires.

    Almost none of them ended up staying, because the bennies, and pay was crap, but they paid big to get them down there to train people at start up.

    This was the late 90's, 98, or 99, can't remember the exact year, but it was when I was in college.

    "It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion." Oscar Wilde, 1891

    by MichiganGirl on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 11:46:34 AM PST

  •  Why are you redefining failure this way? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dr Erich Bloodaxe RN, Oh Mary Oh

    The failure of RTW laws is the demolishing of the middle class.  In the new era of Citizens United, it also is the means to take away the biggest gun on the Democratic arsenal (excepting Barack Obama).  THOSE are the aims and the impacts.  So, call it what you want, that is what it does.

    Certainly from our standpoint, this gives us a sense of momentum -- when the United States has accolades tossed its way, rather than shoes. - PJ Crowley

    by nsfbr on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 11:52:12 AM PST

  •  Is Alabama a RTW state? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Oh Mary Oh, Neon Mama

    There is the 2005 example of Toyota deciding to build their plant in Ontario, Canada, rather than Alabama because the workforce is better educated and labor costs would be lower because they didn't have to pay health insurance.

    These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert, to fleece the people... -Abraham Lincoln

    by HugoDog on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 11:57:03 AM PST

    •  Yes it is. (0+ / 0-)

      I remember that, though.  Although labor force quality was cited, it was really an issue of Canada being able to come up with the subsidy money, and Alabama not being able to.

      Toyota later apologized for the remark (and already had several factories in Alabama)

  •  Every Southern State that has it. n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Oh Mary Oh

    The 47% also "pay all the taxes that are legally required and not a dollar more" but when Romney does it he thinks it's a virtue, while when they do it, he thinks they are deadbeats.

    by jsfox on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 11:59:35 AM PST

  •  Florida constantly brings nurses in from out of (3+ / 0-)

    state to staff hospitals.   For decades we can't keep enough in state nurses due to poor pay and a two year wait to get admitted to nursing classes.    

    The alien nurses work to gain extra high paycheck here -- for their inconvenience. overly long shifts & share apartments leased by hospital.  They leave their families back home for @ 6 months at a time ---

    I can't swear unionism is involved.  But the same lack of foresight -- pinching pennies then wasting dollars --- seems to apply.  

    If they paid our local nurses enough, they would not have so many quit for private duty cash or go into entirely new careers.  It costs more to import constantly rotating newbies and probably causes way more mistakes from overwork & being in unfamiliar workplace.    

    The rent a nurses are not thrilled enough with job here -- to relocate here permanently --- once they find out actual pay of local nurse jobs.      They also claim it is extremely difficult to get anyone to teach new nurses -- again due to poor Florida pay.    

    We've been right to work for peanuts --- way longer than most states.

    Here's a thought ------------------ when all states are right to poor pay and conditions  ------ what good will stealing jobs from neighbor states have done?    

    De fund + de bunk = de EXIT--->>>>>

    by Neon Mama on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 12:09:39 PM PST

  •  Here is what a right to work law does. (6+ / 0-)

    My wife works for a big employer in Florida. She is represented by a union. The union negioates working conditions benefits wages and work rules. She chooses to pay her dues and be a member. She believes in the union and supports it. But because Florida is a right to work state the company is under no obligation to recognize the union. And no employee is required to support the union. But if that free riding employee needs the help of the union the union is required to give that help. The union is then forced to represent everybody but not require the support of everybody. Which weakens the union. And it means that union reps are unable to provide all the services that a union provides in a no right to work state. Which means that it is more difficult to persuade people to support the union.

    One of the topics surrounding health care reform is that if you do not "have skin in the game" you are likely to abuse the health care system. Should we not think about union representation the same way? I know that there are some anti union voices here on Daily Kos who buy into the idea that public workers unions are the cause of unbalanced budgets and that public workers are paid too generously. But if I get the benefits of union membership without having to pay union dues than I would have to be an idiot to pay union dues. Or a believer in fair play and the rights of workers. If no union dues paying employees did not get the benefits of union membership then the right to work people might be on to something. But right to work sets up a system of free riders until the union withers away. Which is exactly what corporate America wants.

    Does anyone think Democrats would have supported the bailout of the auto industry if we knew that Right to work was down the pike? It should have been a condition of the bailout that Michigan and other auto states would respect unions. But we just got royally screwed. And we should have seen this coming and planned for it. So much for bipartisanship. So much for working with Republicans. We need to make them howl in pain over this. Through the tax code. punish them with high taxes. We need to be rat fuckers too. And if we can not right this wrong or punish the wrong doers then we do not deserve to be trusted with government again.

    •  yes, i think Democrats would have supported (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Oh Mary Oh

      the auto bailout regardless.

      pseudoscience can kill

      by terrypinder on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 12:31:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I was with you until the last paragraph (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Oh Mary Oh, FG

      Your description of the effects of RTW is spot on. But the attempt to link the auto bailout to forced respect for unions is a non-starter. First, because there is no way to enforce the tie you want; the bailout was essentially an agreement between the Federal government and a group of corporations, with no specific participation from state legislatures, and thus no way to force state legislatures into specific agreements. Second, because I think you're wrong; Democrats would have supported the auto bailout one way or the other, because it saved an enormous number of jobs at a time when the economy couldn't have taken the hit of losing them. Third, because I can't agree that it is EVER good public policy to use legislation, and especially the tax code, to punish any group of people for their political activity, no matter how self-interested or wrong-headed they may be. That's just fundamentally wrong.

      "Do it in the name of Heaven; you can justify it in the end..." - Dennis Lambert & Brian Potter

      by pragmaticidealist on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 01:42:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sorry if my anger got the better of me. I (0+ / 0-)

        understand that my outburst would of course be illegal. But it angers me that unions have bent over backwards to accommodate the auto industry and yet this happens. Where is the auto industry on this? Do they publicly support this or would they prefer to remain silent while their workers get screwed. Obama took massive political heat for bailing out the auto industry and the state of Michigan thanks Obama for his efforts and us Democrats by doing this in a lameduck without debate. If there had been open debate I would not be this angry. This legislation is the product of cowardice.

        You can not work with cowards. You can not trust them to honor their promises. We need higher taxes to fix our economy. Why not take that money from the wealthy. They talk of fairness yet they skulk around in the dark passing bad laws under cover of a lame duck legislature without the normal procedures. This is not political activity this is a declaration of war on working people. Workers without union representation are serfs. Past history indicates what company owners will do when they get the opportunity. Low wages dangerous conditions wage theft etc.

        Does Corporate America wish to return to the conditions described by Marx? Do they want to take that risk? It seems so. And they only solution will be the further radicalization of the working classes. The American labor experience, which many believe responsible for the failure of leftist politics in America is coming to an end. And leftist politics may fill in that vacuum. Like it or not. And this is not of our doing.

        A FOX correspondent got beaten up at a protest in Lansing. That may not be an isolated experience as workers feel more and more impotent. There is a history of violence in labor history on both sides. We may be returning to those days. I think that would be terrible but it will happen because of the Michigan fiasco.

  •  speaking from SC what happens is that (5+ / 0-)

    usually companies relocating here in the 70's brought in their management teams from the states they had left with the other workers hired locally.  By relocating they saved money by having to only pay minimum wage, by not having to provide retirement or health benefits and by receiving large tax breaks from the state and county, along with a wink at substandard working conditions.

    RtW is a bald attempt by RtW states to steal industries from states with strong unions.  The problem is that those industries polluted the environment, used up their tax breaks and then moved on to SA or Mexico, leaving it to the Superfund to clean up their mess.  So there was 10-20 years of work provided for populations, moving them off the farm, forcing farmers to mechanize and modernize or to bring in migrant workers.  Then when the plants left, there is nowhere for the workers to go, leaving local counties here with permanent unemployment of 12% or more.  

  •  Mississippi lost chance at a couple of auto (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dickensgirl, Oh Mary Oh, KenBee

    plants that moved on to greener pastures when they figured out the state was tapped out re: skill base with the two auto plants already.

    I've never understood the hatred of unions in the South. With all of the working poor down here, the only thing that makes any sense is either a) "unions" sound too much like the other side in the War Between the States, or b) that the working poor are "those black people" who must be hurt at all costs. Could be both reasons, of course ...

  •  I work for a national retail chain (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Oh Mary Oh

    who expanded its operation to TN several years ago. Management makes no secret of the fact that one of the things that made TN so enticing is that it's a "right to work" state.

    That's Rovian language if I've ever heard it.

    Here are some of the advantages of which this company takes full advantage:

    Keeping payroll low by using more temp than full-time labor.

    Taking away employees sick time and bundling it with vacation time.

    Firing employees with whom management simply disagrees.

    Firing employees because someone in management doesn't like him/her.

    Promoting employees because s/he is attractive or plays golf.

    Open bigotry against certain employees by management, who have no fear of repercussions.

    Determining pay raises based on arbitrary "goals" which are almost never met to management's satisfaction.

    Hourly and salaried employees operating under two different sets of rules (hourly workers forced to work all weekend, but salaried employees still get two days off a week; salaried employees able to come and go or take days off as they please, whereas hourly workers held to strict attendance policies).

    Harrassing workers who "just don't fit," whatever that means.

    Demanding increased production through financial extortion.

    Putting certain employees in no-win situations to make them either quit or get fired.

    Firing employees rather than paying insurance claims.

    Telling employees point-blank that management literally can do no wrong, and anyone who claims otherwise will be fired.

    Honestly, I could keep going. But I think you get the picture.

    All of this is perfectly legal, because in a "right to work" state the employer holds ALL the cards. The employees must perpetually EARN THE PRIVELEDGE of working there. We're often told, "If you don't like it, there's the door."

    It'd be tempting if not for the fact that other places are WORSE (assuming you could find another place to work anyway).

    There are two types of Republicans: millionaires and suckers.

    by Phil T Duck on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 04:17:38 PM PST

    •  Businessses salary employees that they... (0+ / 0-)

      typically want to work even more without having to pay them more, especially overtime pay that hourly workers get.

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