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On one hand we have private Bradley Manning serving in the US Army, observing military obscenities and deciding to blow the whistle and wake the world up to what was really going on.

He turned whistleblower on the US actions in the war in Iraq, a war that has been proven to be false in every way.

Hes been tortured, imprisoned and will most likely never again be a free man.

On the other hand we have HSBC, a British bank admitting to laundering drug money, aiding terrorism either directly or indirectly via banks and countries aiding terrorists, and openly committing international crimes by ignoring sanctions on countries like Iran.

There is absolutely no question about which party committed the worst crimes, but Bradley Manning is still in prison and HSBC receives a fine and avoids any other consequences from committing those crimes.

America is such a hypocrit.  If I were a greedy criminal pig, I think I would choose to be a banker.

I agree with Cenk Uygur from TYT when he said today, "if you are not mad about this you are either part of the elite or you're are profoundly stupid...we should be in the streets over this."  "There is no justice at all....the elite have bought the justice system."

So true.  I am very angry about this.

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Comment Preferences

  •  This isn't hypocrisy, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    allenjo

    it's hypocrisy on steroids.

    There is no such thing as an off year election. Every election effects each other. We need to work as hard in 2014 as we did in 2012.

    by pollbuster on Thu Dec 13, 2012 at 08:03:36 PM PST

  •  Yep. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    arlandbaee, ffour, allenjo

    I made a comment about this in an open thread a few nights ago. I'm very concerned that this story hasn't resulted in more diaries here at dkos.

    I agree 100% with Cenk. I'm not at the point yet where I think the majority of folks here are profoundly stupid. Close, but not yet there. This should have been the biggest story of the week. For a Constitutional Law guy, the President continues to be tone deaf on some of the bigger issues revolving around the concept of Justice.

  •  If Manning had released 4 documents (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    johnny wurster, misslegalbeagle

    to "blow the whistle" on bad acts, I'd agree he's a whistle-blower and hope that his sentence would reflect that. But he released 400,000 documents. So unless you believe that he personally read all 400,000 documents, he released a massive amount of classified information without even knowing what was in it. That is very bothersome to me and completely destroys any chance I'd ever consider him a hero.

    •  he'll deserve every day of the sentence (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      doc2, misslegalbeagle

      he serves.

      •  What did HSBC deserve? (0+ / 0-)

        Do you think their fine was too high for actions that got a pass in the US justice system?

        Do you feel you live in a country that practices "justice for all?"

        "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand? David Crosby.

        by allenjo on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 04:49:34 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I haven't followed the HSBC stuff closely (0+ / 0-)

          enough to have a view of what the appropriate punishment should be.

          I do have a view of lame green party shrieking, though, and I feel reasonably confident that if the US shuttered a UK bank for violating US rules, there'd be several equally vacuous diaries about US hegemony and the imposition of US law on the rest of the world.

        •  I'm stumped. Comparing (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          misslegalbeagle, Kickemout

          a large organization you are accusing of civil infractions involving finance with an individual charged with criminal infractions involving military intelligence and classified information. I have no idea what these two topics have in common.

          •  Perhaps you might want to gather more information (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Calamity Jean

            about that large organization who committed criminal activity, but escaped criminal charges - so you will not be stumped.

            Money laundering used to be a crime in the US.

            Now we have this exception for this TBTF/TBTJ banking "large organization."

            I have no idea what these two topics have in common.
            How about a legal system that once supposedly was based on "Justice for All?"

            "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand? David Crosby.

            by allenjo on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 07:06:12 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  So.... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              doc2

              Because one criminal escaped prosecution, all criminals should escape prosecution?  Or all prosecutions should be put on hold until the backlog is cleared?  doc2 is correct - this is an apples to aardvarks comparison.

              •  if Manning was offered the same deal as HSBC (0+ / 0-)

                I suppose if Manning was offered the same deal as HSBC, we could say equal justice had been administered.

                But HSBC avoided criminal prosecution for their criminal activity, by paying a fine, and Manning awaits trial and faces life in prison.

                A 2 tiered justice system in action.

                "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand? David Crosby.

                by allenjo on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 10:22:57 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Typical one sided view. (0+ / 0-)

                I never implied nor suggested that Bradley Manning didn't do something wrong.

                What I wrote was that HSBC admitted to committing felonies and even funding terrorist organization and only received a fine, whereas Bradley Manning is only accused of aiding terrorist organizations and has already been imprisoned and tortured.

                How is it that you can accept that HSBC escaped prosecution?

                Are you suggesting that it's ok that no one is held accountable at HSBC for supporting terrorism?

                For someone to think that we are suggesting Manning go free rather than that the guilty at HSBC go to prison like Mr. Manning is telling.

                At least everyone knows how you view things.

          •  Civil infractions? You think the laundering (0+ / 0-)

            Of money from Mexican drug cartels is a civil infraction?  Bradley Manning committed a crime but HSBC committed a civil infraction

            I will not continue this discourse because you doc2 have no idea what a crime is.

            I refuse to allow comments such as yours to pollute the public discourse.  Take your lies elsewhere!!!

      •  No one suggested that Mr. Manning (0+ / 0-)

        Didn't do wrong.

        Your assumption that that is what people are saying here tells everyone how biased you truly are.

    •  How do you feel about HSBC? (0+ / 0-)

      Is that not bothersome to you?

      "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand? David Crosby.

      by allenjo on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 04:46:57 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Since when is "HSBC" a retort (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        misslegalbeagle

        to Bradley Manning? You think it is on point, but huh?

        •  I assumed you had read the diary you're commenting (0+ / 0-)

          in, which said.....

          On one hand we have private Bradley Manning serving in the US Army, observing military obscenities and deciding to blow the whistle and wake the world up to what was really going on.
          And
          On the other hand we have HSBC, a British bank admitting to laundering drug money, aiding terrorism either directly or indirectly via banks and countries aiding terrorists, and openly committing international crimes by ignoring sanctions on countries like Iran.

          "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand? David Crosby.

          by allenjo on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 07:35:00 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  False equivalence (0+ / 0-)

      The point is the disproportionate treatment vs. harm done, you know it, and you refuse to speak to the double standard.

      YES WE DID -- AGAIN. FOUR MORE YEARS.

      by raincrow on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 08:29:46 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      doc2

      He was, IMO, tortured.  However, he was not a whistleblower.

      •  Is that your opinion? (0+ / 0-)

        From what I understand about why he acted the way he did, he was a whistleblower.

        The majority of people believe he was trying to prevent further harm not cause it and that is what differentiates a whistleblower from a traitor or criminal.

        For one second just presume that Mr. Manning was doing exactly what he says he was doing, trying to bring attention to a major injustice he witnessed during his deployment.

        Having served in the military I can attest to the difficulty that would be involved in accusing the military of wrong doing.  The pressure to conform, the consequences of disobeying a direct order and the retaliation that occurs when you do doesn't readily allow for an open and honest critique of military actions.  A person of conscience doesn't normally remain in the military for very long.  Especially if they are fighting in a war begun on false pretenses and continued out of pride and arrogance.  

        It is much, much more likely that Bradley Manning was acting from a moral conscience than from a lack thereof.

        After what has happened and continues to happen to Mr. Manning, it's no wonder why no one else in the military ever speaks out about anything.

        Women get raped and nothing happens.
        Our forces commit unspeakable crimes and no one is brought to justice.
        Drones kill innocent civilians and they are ignored.
        I have my doubts regarding the guilt of Bradley Manning because I know horrible acts are being committed routinely yet no ones is speaking.

        Either everyone in the military has become corrupt or the consequences of speaking out are too severe.

        Personally I don't believe that there are that many bad people in our military.  So I choose to believe Manning is being made an example of.

  •  What has happened to Bradley Manning is appalling! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean

    You don't need to compare it to the numerous banksters that are scamming the system like bandits.  

    The NY Times published many of the documents after carefully reviewing whether they would put anyone at risk. So a precedent is about to be established that not only should a soldier who sees things that are criminal and pose a threat to our Constitution shut up or be tried for treason (didn't we try Nazi soldiers and convict them for doing the opposite?) but newspaper reporters better not publish any of their investigative work without running it by the Dept of Defense first.  That last works great for freedom of the press.

    Is the freedom in Tunisa and the Arab Spring a good thing for the world?  People in Tunisia say it was Manning's releases about their leaders complicity with US corporate desires that left most poor there, thus starting the whole thing in their country that has led to their democracy.

    Oh, and we torture the guy to see if we can get him to turn on Julian Assange and wikileaks, leaving him in solitary for ages without a trial for good measure.

    I agree, Daily kos, is remiss on this one.  Where is everyone?

    Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them. George Orwell

    by 6079SmithW on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 07:36:19 AM PST

  •  Money talks -- and walks (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean

    If Manning were a Walton heir (a) he wouldn't be in the military, but (b) if he were, he would've been handled with kid gloves and given 100 hours of community service.

    YES WE DID -- AGAIN. FOUR MORE YEARS.

    by raincrow on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 08:26:38 AM PST

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