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There are no responsible gun owners, only lucky ones.

Keeping a gun in your house is like keeping high explosives in your garage.  It doesn't matter how careful you are, all it takes is one unlucky slip-up to bring tragedy to your family or your neighbors.  No matter how many precautions you take, you're still creating a dangerous situation for the entire community by your actions.  Keeping guns in your house is an inherently irresponsible thing to do.

All tools of destruction have their uses.  We don't ban high explosives entirely; we treat them with the respect they deserve.  We keep them  locked up away from where people live in order to minimize the harm if there's an accident.  We keep a careful accounting of who has access to them.  And we don't give people access unless they can clearly demonstrate why they need to have it.

We need to treat guns with the same degree of respect.  If you want to own a gun, you should have to state why you need one, and then regularly demonstrate that your usage conforms to that need.  If you're a sportsman, you should be required to store your weapon at an approved club with clear procedures for signing it in and out.  If you want to contribute to community defense, you should be required to store your weapon at a neighborhood armory with similar safeguards in place.  Before anyone picks up a gun, there should be a volunteer who looks that person in then eye and asks himself "Is this person who they say they are?  Are they capable of making life or death decisions?  Are they calm?  Sober?  Sane?"  And if the answer to any of these questions is "no", the gun cabinet should stay locked.

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Comment Preferences

  •  bupton - you have been here six years (14+ / 0-)

    one comment when you first registered and now, six years later, a diary. Where have you been?

    Your idea has no chance in Congress and will not even be discussed by the people negotiating on this issue. It basically takes away the right to private ownership and control of guns. That's not going to happen.

    "let's talk about that"

    by VClib on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 05:44:46 PM PST

    •  (bupton is my husband) (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      splashy, WakeUpNeo

      I read dailykos more than he does, but we also talk about many things here.  He hangs out more on the straight dope message boards.

      I read and comment, but only published one diary as well.

      In any case, if we don't stake out positions far far away from the status quo, there will be no space in which to negotiate.  

      •  eru - no laws will be passed without some (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        support from Republicans. If you start with the position that their are no responsible gun owners it is easy for the GOP to take the position that you are not negotiating in good faith and just walk away and the status quo is maintained. My experience in negotiating is that you have to start with an aggressive but defensible position. bupton's view does not meet the defensible criteria. Even here, on a very progressive blog, the overwhelming percentage of comments think the view is nonsense.  

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 11:21:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I still think it's important (0+ / 0-)

          to let people know that many Americans do indeed want a total ban on gun ownership.  Practical or not, defensible or not, that is my opinion.  I think modern guns are horrible, and I don't want anyone to have any.  

          •  eru - your view is understandable (0+ / 0-)

            but the discussion is about legislative tactics and strategy. There are million of people like you who would like to see a total ban on guns. However, the current SCOTUS has stated that people have an individual right to own a gun and we have a long history as Americans of gun ownership. Public opinion seems to center on reasonable gun control, rather than a ban.

            "let's talk about that"

            by VClib on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:01:49 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  I'm sorry, but that is like saying there are no (18+ / 0-)

    responsible automobile drivers.

    "If you tell the truth, you won't have to remember anything", Mark Twain

    by Cruzankenny on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 05:45:50 PM PST

    •  Let's repeal the second amendment. (0+ / 0-)

      That vile human who runs the NRA whips up fear that we liberals want to repeal the second amendment.  I'd never heard that!  But now that I know they fear it, it seems like a good idea to me.

  •  Hmmm (16+ / 0-)

    I think you are inherently wrong, so take this:


    All knowledge is worth having. Check out OctopodiCon to support steampunk learning and fun. Also, on DKos, check out the Itzl Alert Network.

    by Noddy on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 05:48:33 PM PST

  •  Even Tho I'd Back a Repeal of the 2nd, I Don't (10+ / 0-)

    agree with this.

    I'd be reasonably comfortable with gun ownership being a commonly granted privilege like car ownership because millions of people can be responsible managing dangerous equipment.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 05:56:07 PM PST

  •  The country is full of responsible gun owners (18+ / 0-)

    who take every procaution to ensure that this particularly dangerous tool is not misused to the detriment of themselves, their family, or their neighbors.

    What you advocate is wrong and it is not practical. I know that this is a highly emotional issue for all of us but let's try to stick to practical solutions that positive impacts on the problem of gun violence.

    "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

    by Andrew C White on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 06:02:41 PM PST

    •  I'd be happy with open carry, insurance (0+ / 0-)

      One each and every gun, with the insurance corporations pushing for safer guns.

      Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

      by splashy on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 01:48:48 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  You have gone a little to far , imho . (7+ / 0-)

    An unloaded gun with a high quality trigger lock , stored in a real safe ...

    "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

    by indycam on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 06:02:43 PM PST

    •  and a requirement to pass safety training (0+ / 0-)

      before purchase...

      My dad was hit in the back of the neck with a bullet fragment when some doofus accidentally discharged his hunting rifle in his truck. He "thought it was unloaded!"

      You treat every weapon as though it was loaded, just in case.

  •  Bullshit! (7+ / 0-)

    You clearly don't know enough—about the subject or the broad range of people you're trying to paint with that epithet.

    Gun ownership isn't anything like, say, storing a can of lawnmower gas in the garage. And since it isn't, your premise fails.

    Fail diary, an insult to responsible gunowners, and deserving of deletion. Maybe even a mea culpa.

  •  Absolutely not true (17+ / 0-)

    Dude, I grew up in Idaho surrounded guns. I can assure that most gun owners ARE responsible. Yes, there are some who are just setting themselves up for tragedy, but the majority of people who own guns aren't nuts stockpiling them.

    I have been through many, many lectures about guns and their dangers by responsible gun owners. I can assure you they take that shit seriously.

    P.S. I am not a crackpot.

    by BoiseBlue on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 06:10:16 PM PST

  •  Sorry (11+ / 0-)

    This doesn't hack it.  I'm anti-NRA, not a supporter of DK RKBA, and I support a fairly broad range of gun restrictions....and I'm a gun owner.  I like the idea that I can get up on a day off and decide, "Hmmm...I think I'll go walk some trails this morning and take a grouse or two."  That's no threat to you or anyone and I'll never claim I need a semiauto with a 60 round clip to do it.  

    Go after the real gun problems...there are plenty of them.  

    Political compass: -8.75 / -4.72

    by Mark Mywurtz on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 06:21:30 PM PST

  •  Growing up in a town with gun violence, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pHunbalanced, eru

    people still get their hands on those that are banned for sale to civilians. Does it seem like I'm immune? I'm not. I have seen dead people and it takes me a few days to shake that feeling. It's even harder for me to imagine dead children. I don't want to cry in my office during my coffee break.

    Gun control (at least what Diane Feinstein is proposing - ya i'll probably spell her name wrong, damn me.) is like appeasement. Let me tell it to your face like a jackass: it's a joke.

    Advocating and reminding gun owners about safe gun practices and storage habits is like getting your safety training in other very dangerous things. Lately, mentally disturbed people have had way too easy of access to firearms. We do have laws on the books about mentally ill accessing guns but it apparently is not well enforced if enforced at all. Problem (as I present it) is threefold: BUYING them and somehow managing to take them from someone sane who bought them so BUYING is a law/regulatoin problem; storage habits are the OWNER'S responsibility; and golly gee we just have so many gosh darned guns around.

    You can't see X-rays and radioactivity. You only feel the aftereffects if the beam/source is strong enough.

    I work with an x-ray diffractometer everyday. I remind myself of that gruesome thumb picture the radiation safety specialist showed me during the radiation safety training. I want to keep my flesh the way it is and I sure as hell don't want anyone around me getting hurt with those sources either.

    You can tell me the big difference between ionizing radiation sources is that they're stationary! Guns are way more mobile and you don't need a giant power source! I say so what! Guns are a tool for the hunters (yes, agree that you shouldn't need giant clips or tactical style weapons). X-ray beams are mine for probing crystal structures. X-ray sources are by default meant to shut down/close the shutter in case of bad things happening like the dolt forgot to turn the safety lock keys to open the chamber door.

    I prefer we have a society without guns but we have to work around the fact that there are guns every f'ing where. NO matter what legislation you put on the table, the criminals will still get their guns. First enforce laws on the books because laws are worthless without their enforcement. I wanna beat that point to death because that's what I bang my head against the wall with (ok not literally)

    so 1. reduce guns over a long term period - this can be up for discussoin as to how this means should be accomplished.
    2. for existing gun owners, reiterate fucking gun safety and safe fucking storage methods for their precious guns.
    3. schools need to be retrofitted to allow for very, very controlled access to the pupils... in a way that stalls even random whackos of any kind (my elementary school is a good example if you are coming from the parking lot - other places have the stupid chain link fences that the 2nd grader can just climb over)
    4. guns have no places in public gatherings... you know where people don't fucking expect guns. I like to go to the mall without fear of getting turned into swiss cheese too.
    5. limit amount of ammunition you can buy at any given time (we kind of do this with OTC meds containing decongestants)
    6. enforce the laws!!!! laws are fucking worthless without enforcement.

    k, this is my last post about guns. i'm just not a big fan of guns but i know why people own them.. more than the 2nd fucking amendment.

    Why hello there reality, how are you doing?

    by Future Gazer on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 06:47:19 PM PST

  •  What a bunch of crap. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cherie clark, exatc

    This post reflects such a low head-density that it's a wonder the diarist doesn't just float off into space.

  •  and yet my sister and I grew up in a home with (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Utahrd, cherie clark, cynndara, VClib, Ahianne, elmo

    guns . . . guns that were taken with us to protect us on camping trips in the Colorado high country (bears and puma), and help feed us (hunting was used to augment a teacher's salary)

    and here I am 50 years old and my sister is 47 ... my parents are both alive and my Dad at 79 still goes hunting, now to augment a retirement income.

    However on that same retirement income I doubt whether they could afford the storage charges . . . so should they go hungry?

    Bumper sticker seen on I-95; "Stop Socialism" my response: "Don't like socialism? GET OFF the Interstate highway!"

    by Clytemnestra on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 07:36:00 PM PST

  •  Kinda ridiculous.. (5+ / 0-)

    like the crowd that rejects any controls whatsoever on guns, because the Second Amendment.

    This Rover crossed over.. Willie Nelson, written by Dorothy Fields

    by Karl Rover on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 07:44:10 PM PST

  •  What a colossal jerk you are! YOu have no idea (4+ / 0-)

    about gun owners in this country and I don't need you telling me I'm not responsible. I collect guns, antique and collector  shot guns, have a few vintage hunting rifles altho I haven't hunted in years. My guns, ALL of them are locked in a gun safe bigger than a double door refrigerator bolted to my basement floor with a combination lock much like a bank safe. I don't have ammunition for most of them but I have a few shot gun shells, reloading equipment, brass and a couple of boxes of 22s since I do have a Winchester Model 90 I like to plink with. I do that behind the barn on the farm of a family member not at the park down the street. The ammunition is stored in a locked trunk at the foot of my bed. Do I need them, not really but I enjoy collecting them, to me the older classic shot guns particularly are works of art. I have a one of a kind Greener prototype nitro safe damascus barrel, unfired except for the nitro test. My kids all know how to handle a gun and respect them, we are not stupid people,  was I a careless mother. So Mr.bupton, fuck you and the little dog you rode in on!

    The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die. ~ Edward M. (Ted) Kennedy

    by cherie clark on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 08:23:25 PM PST

  •  So let's hear it (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Okay, all you self-declared responsible gun owners:  What reasonable new gun control laws would you support?  

  •  i understand how you can reach this conclusion in (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    theory. and in fact, i do not want to live with weapons in my home and i would not weapons in my home with kids , even though i grew up in a home with a few guns.  i think it a travesty that Adam Lanza's home came equipped with an arsenal
    there are in fact a lot of reasonable, nice, even liberal folks who have  a gun somewhere... .
    yes those weapons can and often are stolen , misused, etc.
    shit happens, all we can do is figure out where a reasonable place is to draw a line with the law.

    i will  tell you that my own brother stole the shotgun my dad had, and killed himself with it.  they were both adult men. my dad should have had the stupid gun locked up, though in his note, my brother insisted he would have found another way to take his own life.  though it was  tragic my brother killed himself, i also know   on another day, when he was more filled with rage than depression,  he might have killed others , so ,outrageous as this sounds, i am glad my father had only a single , old fashioned gun, not an arsenal of weapons.

    as a side note, my brother belonged to a fundamentalist church that saw psychiatric or medical treatment for mental illness as a leftist plot... so he tried to heal himself with the bible. namely the book of Revelations. you could say that  was not very effective. the difficulty is, there was no way to save this grown man from himself, as long as he stayed within the law and harmed no one else, he could refuse treatment. there is a stigma about mental illness. a strong willed yet unbalanced person is is tragic, especially if they are a loved one.

    there are no easy answers

    me personally, i have no interest in firearms at all anymore, but we  need moderate, sensible people to help tilt the table back to reasonable..and many of those reasonable people actually do own firearms  and i hope they speak up and become part of the discussion.

    even with the tragedy i personally endured ,I tell you it is not reasonable to think that the government should even try to confiscate every weapon in every home.  like it or not.

  •  Ugh. (0+ / 0-)

    "The government of the many, not the government of the money" - Nancy Pelosi

    by Americantrueandblue on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 10:06:58 PM PST

  •  There are many, many responsible gun owners (0+ / 0-)

    and to causally dismiss out of hand the traditions of proper use and safety of firearms passed down father to son, sometimes for generations; to blithely ignore the skull sweat, careful consideration and situational awareness employed by responsible gun owners is insulting.

    And once again the attitude that only sportsmen have a desire or a need to own firearms is displayed. I assume it's because it makes your own argument seem more unassailable - Hey, why do they really need guns anyway?  The proper use of them is only for sport and a blood sport at that, so let's call bullshit and tell'em they'll have to give up their immature scary hobby.

    I'm thinking of small family owned farms here because that's my background but your controls outlined above would not be workable, IMHO, in these types of rural situations.  While it may, may mind you, be tolerable in situations where one needs to defend the livestock, it would not work out in practice in situations such as the swift, humane dispatching of rabid animals, sick livestock etc.

    Good day sir!

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