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I just had to kick someone off my Facebook friends list because he advocated arming the teachers.

As a teacher, I cannot express in words how stupid an idea this is. I tried, and got attacked for not backing up my "emotional reaction" with facts. I said that his position was immoral (which it is) and I then said I was done discussing it. He kept on commenting, trying to rile me up enough to respond to him. So I defriended and blocked him, because frankly, I don't need that shit, I said I was done, and I'm not good with people who keep pushing after I say cut it out. There's this whole consent issue, you know. Lacking a safeword, I cut him off for my own sanity.

I kind of wish I'd kept him on long enough to send him a message, though. Not that he'd listen, but here it is, for what it's worth:

You know what, jackass? Your position by definition supports the status quo for guns. Worse, actually. It increases the chance that a kid will get shot, because we all know that kids like to mess with stuff in the teacher's desk (and let's not pretend this doesn't happen). It means people like me, who are sworn pacifists, would be forced to be ready to shoot someone - to kill someone - in order to keep their job.

I categorically refuse to live in a world where that's required.

Your position supports things I cannot be part of. It supports continuing to enable people to take lives so that you can keep your precious penis substitute. It's immoral.

Finally, as I have already said (and just this morning) that if you spout an NRA talking point, you should just defriend me now and save us both a lot of trouble, and since you don't seem to follow directions well, and since I told you I was done discussing it and you kept nagging me, you no longer get the pleasure of my online company.

Bye-bye, jackass. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Get new friends! (8+ / 0-)

    I've probably told you that before, and yes, I know it isn't really that easy, but there's something about not intentionally causing yourself stress.

    -7.75, -8.10; Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? . . . and respect the dignity of every human being.

    by Dave in Northridge on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 07:53:47 PM PST

  •  Killer - has anyone suggested that it be (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    suesue, rockhound

    mandatory that teachers be armed? I thought that the proposals were to allow those who wish to be armed, and would be trained in the use of a weapon, to have access to a gun.

    "let's talk about that"

    by VClib on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 07:54:46 PM PST

  •  Missed opportunity. Facebook allows for comments. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Killer of Sacred Cows

    Your reasonable comments can make her and others think more deeply about an issue.

    Might be better option?

  •  When I feel (4+ / 0-)

    I'm being baited like that I politely say I don't want to continue the situation. If the person doing the baiting keeps trying I usually say something really nice -- "Holiday best to you and yours" "I hope you have a joyous and meaningful day", whatever. I've never had an instance where someone kept pushing after that.

    Don't ask me nothin' about nothin'. I just might tell ya the truth -- B. Dylan

    by ponderer on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 08:00:55 PM PST

    •  I did that, twice, and he ignored it. (7+ / 0-)

      This guy REALLY wanted me to agree that arming teachers is a good idea and would not stop pushing. That told me that no matter what else we had in common, he was a Seriously Ungood person for me to have in my life - both because of his belief system and because of his refusal to take no for an answer.

      "Compassion is not weakness, and concern for the unfortunate is not socialism." - Hubert Humphrey

      by Killer of Sacred Cows on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 08:04:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Arming teachers or allowing teachers to carry is (8+ / 0-)

        the most dumb idea I have ever heard. If the killer knows what the weapon is they can bring ammo and whack the 5'3" 110 lb teacher across the back of the head and take the gun shooting her first. The he can kill her class and move on. How many in republican budget schools classrooms nowadays? 35 ... 45...60. Or maybe the teacher has a really bad day...will teachers be tested frequently for thier mental health, If not one of those teachers can have mental or emotional issues AND he is armed. Never happens in other work places ... yeah sure tell that to the postal workers.

        I guess this is the gun lovers shortcut ... have the teachers either kill the students OR get bonked and have thier gun used to kill them Or have some teacher who is terrified by the size of a kid suddenly seeing a weapon in their hands  and bang an innocent kid killed by an armed teacher who is now a police guard too for lower salaries... Wow a triple + a bonus : lower teacher salaries, arm em to serve as guards and shortcut the process for the mass killers... they now will not even have to find a gun (its already there) and the gun manufacturers and ERs gain more customers.

        Fear is the Mind Killer...

        by boophus on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 08:29:21 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Good for you!! (13+ / 0-)

    As a mother, I don't WANT my children's teachers to be armed. I find the idea appalling. Educators are not prison guards, vigilantes, avengers, or killers. I cannot imagine the atmosphere it would create, and the fear that it would engender in most children, to see their teachers packing.

     It would teach the children that school is a dangerous place, a place where it is so unsafe that the teachers must be armed, because somebody might walk in at any time and try to kill them. That's not conducive to learning.

    My daughter's third-grade class wrote letters to Sandy Hook Elementary and practiced their lockdown drills earlier this week. Each child is assigned a hiding place in the classroom. The teacher is seated on the floor, his or her back against the door, which is solid on the bottom and has glass on the top half. My daughter said, "That way Ms. E can keep the bad guy from coming in."

    I had to blink fast before I cried. Thank you, and thank all the educators like you, who care for our children when they are away from us.

  •  I just unfriended someone over guns, too! (6+ / 0-)

    Truth be told, he was a borderline case already.  I hadn't done it already out of a sense of obligation to other friends with whom this guy had kept in closer contact after high school, and because, on rare occasions, I'd been able to get him to a point where, even if he still didn't agree with me, he at least recognized that my position wasn't based on wanting America to be overrun by terrorists.

    But the other day he posted something that said something to the effect of, "If you don't think we already have too much gun control, unfriend me."  Roger that.  I didn't even bother commenting.  It's the first time I'd done something like that, and it felt rather liberating.  And not having his asinine posts to clutter my feed makes keeping up with other friends far more relaxing.  :-)

    "Forecast for tomorrow? A few sprinkles of genius with a chance of doom!" -Stewie Griffin

    by quillsinister on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 08:06:48 PM PST

  •  I'm RKBA and think this is an insane idea (16+ / 0-)

    mr.u is a custodian, he is in the school for hours after everyone has left. Can you imagine if, as some have suggested he was armed? An empty school is spooky as it is and what would happened if the Principal decided to nip in to do some business?

    Teachers are trained, taught, skilled in teaching children not shooting people. Crazy, crazy idea.

    "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

    by high uintas on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 08:08:00 PM PST

  •  Refuted By The Magnificent 7 (4+ / 0-)

    Defending against an armed attack is about fast eyes to discern the threatening positions and movements, and fast hands to respond.

    Remember The Magnificent 7 featured an audition of a young would-be gunfighter by Yule Brennan playing a gun vs hand-grab game.

    This is your interview process for teachers of toddlers?

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 08:10:50 PM PST

  •  Look. No school has enough teachers... (19+ / 0-) be everywhere at once. So the solution is obviously to arm the kindergarteners.

    Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 08:11:23 PM PST

  •  I am considering unfriending someone for (3+ / 0-)

    the same reason right now. I did respond once but really don't like arguing politics on facebook since I can get pretty passionate and I am sure it annoys some people. I just don't want to hear the bullshit because it raises my blood pressure and generally pisses me off. I unfortunately live in W Mich where the Tea Party is a little too left for them and I have to tolerate more than my share of ignorance.  So I have tried to cut back on facebook politics and am unfriending those who are just batshit crazy.

  •  days like this (3+ / 0-)

    I am glad that I've resisted Facebook.

    I'm the lone liberal in my family, but Mom, a moderate at heart, has a "no politics!" rule for family gatherings.

  •  School, not a combat zone. (7+ / 0-)

    Teachers shouldn't be armed. They're teachers, not soldiers. What's next? Body armour for the students? You can't keep militarizing society. It's profoundly insane.

  •  I like weapons... (5+ / 0-)

    ...they just have as much business in the public arena  as rat crap has on top of a cupcake.  Contrary to the NRA's fevered dreams, we don't live in the streets of the old west or the far off battlefields of some distant shore.  Real life isn't the movie that plays on loop in their head that is a endless cycle of consequence free actions.  All of us being set pieces in the awesome movie of their life if only we would allow them their chance at glorious armed combat.

    I had power fantasies growing up as well, but like most children I did grow up and stop thinking that when the bad guys came I'd spontaneously gain access to abilities that take years of training to possess.  That's the problem, the gun nuts are a bunch of dorks who think they will turn into green berets as soon as the shooting starts.  The tragedy for them isn't the dead people, it's that they weren't there to be the real world version of what Chuck Norris plays in movies.

  •  I checked ... It wasn't me :) (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    suesue, Killer of Sacred Cows

    :: phew ::

    I'm all for debate, but like you I do not need people in my life like that.

    I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
    but I fear we will remain Democrats.

    by twigg on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 09:35:38 PM PST

  •  I've unfriended people for far less (3+ / 0-)

    They had me at Obama is a Muslim.

    O great creator of being grant us one more hour to perform our art and perfect our lives. ::: Jim Morrison :::

    by Kevanlove on Thu Dec 20, 2012 at 10:42:23 PM PST

  •  Classic. (3+ / 0-)


    You have to go away now.


    Okay. I have to go away now.  Bye.

    I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

    by CherryTheTart on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 03:43:50 AM PST

  •  I defriended two old schoolmates (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Killer of Sacred Cows

    Who were posting a message saying that the reason this happened is because there is no god in schools.

    It makes me angry on multiple levels.

    You can't take the sky from me!

    by wrights on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 04:20:21 AM PST

    •  Heh. Got one of those, too. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Killer of Sacred Cows

      An outlier I'd neglected to give the boot after the election.

      I'm not sure "god" wasn't a typo in that--or that they just didn't know the difference between how to spell "God" and "gun". Three letters, right? Both start with G, vowel in the middle, consonant at the end!

      Funny thing, before I booted them all, they "liked" a post where I described teabaggers as "morans"

      I think it's because they thought I didn't know how to spell moron, and were self-righteously thrilled to death this intellectual, n-loving liberal down there in the big city couldn't spell moron!

      Really, folks, this is how stupid these morans are. It's scary. And I think the best thing we all can do, collectively and individually, is to shun them.

      Make this level of stoooooopid socially unacceptable. Period.

  •  Both approaches are needed (0+ / 0-)

    This seems a vexing question. I'm not a gun owner nor an NRA member, and I too am a teacher. While I wouldn't want children to see teachers strapped in the classroom, I can't help but wonder whether a few select, specially trained administrators armed with a concealed or lockered weapon, electronically coded to only operate in their indvidual hand, might have made some real difference.

    We tell our children from a young age that visibly armed police officers are their friends, and occasionally invite armed law enforcement to speak to elementary school children, so I don't feel that mere knowledge that an adult is armed would bring fear to a school. To be clear, I'm not advocating the NRA's ridiculous, open carry, wild west fantasy, rather, the select placement of firearms in specially trained and accountable official (non-private) hands, and only in certain locations and protection circumstances. It just seems disconcertingly apparent that even had a ban on assault rifles and high-capacity magazines been in place it still would not have prevented the brutal murder of a lot, if any, of those helpless children and teachers. Little will stop the truly homicidally insane apart from deadly force applied in their direction.

    In conjunction with the above, I feel that we ALSO should re-institute and expand the assault weapons ban. I don't see the best approach as coming only from one diametrically opposed view or the other, but rather, from an integrated combination of the two. At least until/if this nation grows out of the culture of violence which has characterized it since it's relatively recent founding.

    •  It's the culture, not this. (0+ / 0-)
      I can't help but wonder whether a few select, specially trained administrators armed with a concealed or lockered weapon, electronically coded to only operate in their indvidual hand, might have made some real difference.
      It wouldn't, and no amount of Monday-morning quarterbacking will change that. The point is that we MUST stop the flow of guns into the hands of people who have no compunctions about using them.

      We need to change the culture. Putting armed guards into the schools is not the answer to that.

      "Compassion is not weakness, and concern for the unfortunate is not socialism." - Hubert Humphrey

      by Killer of Sacred Cows on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 09:14:47 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Grow up (0+ / 0-)

        Your comment strikes me as purile wishful thinking, as well as stupidly snarky. So, tell me, how many more children will die while you are busy clicking your heels three times wishing for a culture change? All we need is a culture change and then police officers will no longer be needed on our streets, yes? Can you see what magical thinking this is? As adult citizens, we take reality based steps to protect society against it's criminal element and foreign enemies. So, we established the police and the military. I don't see why schools or movie theaters would be off limits from such protection as they are not impenetrable sanctuaries, as should be only too apparent by now.

        By the way, we are supposed to be participating in a political discussion forum here. In the future, please either make a thoughtful response or just don't bother. Your rather silly snark isn't welcome.

        •  Working to change the culture starts with (0+ / 0-)

          removing the sources of the problem. Get rid of the guns and you change the culture. That doesn't mean we won't still need police officers - but fewer of them will die from gunshot wounds.

          Magical thinking? Wishful thinking? You should be bitching about the NRA's ridiculous claims. In the meantime, show some respect.

          And if you want to see snark, go read jbou's diaries. I was not snarking. I was and am serious.

          "Compassion is not weakness, and concern for the unfortunate is not socialism." - Hubert Humphrey

          by Killer of Sacred Cows on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 12:41:57 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  We can take more than one step (0+ / 0-)

            The lack of respect began with you, my friend, by offensively calling my comment on such a serious and tragic matter akin to, "monday morning quarterbacking". My calling that characterization snark was about the kindest way I could express my feelings about it.

            We are not going to simply "get rid of the guns". The second amendment would first have have to be repealed, which ain't gonna happen in our lifetimes. Neither are we going to change our violent culture overnight, if it ever changes. Our country was founded in violent revolution. Moving west, we used our armies to mass murder the indigenous population so to steal their land. We grew economically by riding the despicable violence of slavery. We split and reunified in hugely violent civil war. Post civil war, we long tolerated a domestic terrorism group who hid beneath white hoods and carried burning crosses while dragging fellow citizens out of their homes at night and murdering them in front of violence fevered onlookers. The wild west style shootout, Al Capone gangland style shootouts, such violence are perversely admired by many Americans as expressions of American individuality and initiative. No, you are not going to overnight change our cultute of violence which is, unfortunately, so much a part of our national identity and heritage.

            In the meanwhile, gun control, yes. Better protection for school children against the homicidally insane, yes. Change our violent culture, also, yes. These three actions, some short term some long, are not mutually exclusive. Ideology cannot be allowed to trump all reasonable (a notion for which, I grant, is in the eye of the beholder) pragmatic action.

  •  It would definitely alter (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Killer of Sacred Cows

    the classroom discipline situation.

    Light is seen through a small hole.

    by houyhnhnm on Fri Dec 21, 2012 at 11:51:43 AM PST

  •  Why people want to have automatic weapons (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Killer of Sacred Cows

    "penis substitute" = That's exactly what they are. Or, as Leonard Pitt said, "moral masturbation." Same meaning: The self-justification of a dangerous, useless instrument just for the excitement of having and using it.  I have a safer alternative. It's obvious, and doesn't cost anything.

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