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Originally posted to Comics on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 06:50 AM PST.

Also republished by Shut Down the NRA, Repeal or Amend the Second Amendment (RASA), and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Yup, clearly a fly-by night security operation. (12+ / 0-)

    Flag's pointing the wrong way, and his finger's on the trigger with no obvious threat nearby.

    Willing to bet it's "Joe-Bob's Security and Rifle Range (Free BBQ with every handgun!)"

    I don't blame Christians. I blame Stupid. Which sadly is a much more popular religion these days.

    by detroitmechworks on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 06:52:46 AM PST

  •  Is this what (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, blue aardvark, quill

    Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

    by A Siegel on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 07:12:02 AM PST

  •  ouch (5+ / 0-)

    just a little bit bored.

    by terrypinder on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 07:19:14 AM PST

  •  Uh, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blue aardvark, hnichols


    May today be greater than yesterday, and tomorrow be greater than both! Go Ravens!

    by secret38b on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 07:19:37 AM PST

  •  We should run with this! (12+ / 0-)

    I want 6 fully trained, armed, and equipped guards at every elementary school!

    And 12 at the middle and high schools.
    And a requirement for all public gathering places to hire equivalent numbers: churches, theaters, concerts, sporting events, malls, universities, and so on.

    I'm figuring something on the order of 10 million people will have to be hired. Throw in some government people to enforce training and equipment standards, require that all the gear be of US manufacture by union employees, and so on, and full employment is just around the corner!

    Economics is a social *science*. Can we base future economic decisions on math?

    by blue aardvark on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 07:24:01 AM PST

    •  Agreed. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      drmah, Hangpilot

      A willing teacher with a CCL is a much better choice.

      The whole decade needs an asterisk.

      by James Kresnik on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 07:56:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  By which you mean, utterly useless (18+ / 0-)

        There was an armed police officer at Columbine. He was useless, despite being trained. There were armed police at Virginia Tech, and they were useless. Colorado has permissive concealed carry laws, and they were useless in the Aurora theater. Arizona has permissive concealed carry laws, and they were useless in Tucson.

        If you want to engage a killer with a rifle and body armor, you need multiple people with similar equipment. Because if the killer is smart - as many of them seem to be - he's going to know where the security forces are, and he's going to take a single guard out. As happened at the Holocaust museum.

        Economics is a social *science*. Can we base future economic decisions on math?

        by blue aardvark on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 08:09:27 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I know this is an off-the-wall idea, but I thought (17+ / 0-)

          the idea was teachers were to teach children and youth.  The concept that they should be armed security guards  certainly diminishes their role as instructors.  There is barely enough time to cover all the malaraky necessary to get students to pass standardized tests now, so how in the wolrd is there time to carry out militia duties, too????

          •  It also only reinforces the theme of the NRA (12+ / 0-)

            teaching kids from an early age the only way you can protect yourself is with a gun. Parents might feel safer knowing there is an armed guard at their child's elementarty school, however kids will just accept it in their stride, and the lesson will be implanted in their young minds, that guns are necessary to protect yourself. That is a danger that I have not heard discussed at all. I don't think I want the little children growing up with that mindset.

            •  NRA's reasoning fails, totally, to comprehend the (5+ / 0-)

              basic purpose of schools.  Just sending kids off to armed camp becomes more like summer camp at the police academy rather than going to learn to read and cipher!

              •  You learn more at school than just to read and (7+ / 0-)

                cipher. That part is easy, what is hard is to teach children right and wrong, how to get along with others, and be good citizens. Teachers have to deal with conflicting information when it comes to teaching these values, reading and ciphering offers no conflictiing inforamtion.  Try telling children there are better ways to settle your differences when they come to school every day seeing armed guards. Better we should limit the amount of guns and protect our kids that way, then we are not just protecting their little bodies, but their little minds as well.

            •  Yep (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Kevskos, blue aardvark

              My fear too. And it's not just that incidents of violence will increase (which they will, of course).  The saturation of guns and the mindset of "you must be armed to be safe" is an inherently violent society.  The threat of violence would be pervasive, a daily experience of trauma and fear.

              And what kills me about this "arm everyone" approach is that it is self-fulfilling, and you can see this in the gun-rush that happens after each massacre.  The NRA and gun manufacturers have a vested interest in more episodes of violence precisely because it makes the all-violence-all-the-time world they imagine closer to a reality.  It's that classic pathology of that guy who's entire identity is premised on "protecting" his family--it's only a matter of time before that entitled violence is directed inward, against those he's supposed to be protecting.  

        •  The last thing we want to do is throw out a (5+ / 0-)

          challenge to people with a pathological obsession to the mentality, "I'll show them!"

          Less accessible fire arms, Better screening, mental health care covered in single payer system.

          •  That's your hangup. (0+ / 0-)

            'Showing them' is having a panic attack then demanding every law abiding, peace-loving citizen trade their tools of self defense for the security theatre of a 'gun free zone.'

            The whole decade needs an asterisk.

            by James Kresnik on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 10:03:25 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Different guns are designed for different purposes (6+ / 0-)

              As we have seen, killers can and do come armed with weapons that you aren't going to be carrying, and body armor to boot.

              You are, as the policeman at Columbine was, essentially unarmed if the killer has an AR-15 and you have a pistol. Your "tool of self defense" may as well be a paperweight.

              So, either everyone carries heavy weapons, or no one has access to them. And since option one is silly, option two is your only option.

              If your .45 or .357 makes you feel safe, that's because you've seen too much theater of the Dirty Harry variety. We have yet to have a heavily armed killer stopped with a handgun, despite numerous chances.

              Economics is a social *science*. Can we base future economic decisions on math?

              by blue aardvark on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 10:11:17 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Oh yes James do please tell me how very (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              blueoasis, blue aardvark

              dangerous the world is and then try and convince me that guns are the answer to every confrontation. Because really I have no experience there.

              I live in a bubble, like all women do. [snark]

              It's not a hang up. And I never said it had to be a gun free zone.

              Making guns less accessible to belligerent asses who show a lack the ability to consider their actions in terms of effects on their neighbors, family members or community? though--I don't have a problem with that at all.

              It still shocks me that the Conn Shooter's Mother KNEW he had issues, and not only kept guns in the house with him, but took him out and showed him how to use them with accuracy. If I face palm myself any more, I will leave a dent in my head over that one.

              And If this makes me a bad guy--well, if some feel the need to stock up on ammo like they are going to be living in some War-Front somewhere, then I am going to look at them sideways. Who else will they be going to use all those bullets on, but the people in their community?

              Having a gun for self defense in the home I get. But if you need more than a box of bullets to get the job done, then maybe you need to move.

              Having a gun for hunting, I get that too. But once again, sportsmanship dictates not decapitating your prey with a spray of bullets. Killing for meat is one thing, Killing for the pleasure of killing is simply disturbing.

              And if your family members show signs of mental instability like suicidal or homicidal ideations, it seems that common sense would dictate that it's time to either get rid of the weapons, or at least store them in another location.

              Is that really too much to ask?

              Because the technology our government has now, not including the drones, well I don't care how well trained your militia is, it wouldn't take much to clean a place out, no matter how much you stockpiled in your basement.

              If some of these paranoid gun owners were really worried about the direction our government was going, perhaps they should have protested the patriot act instead of the new medical care coverage. Perhaps they should be more concerned about police brutality against peaceful protesters, rather than illegal immigrants, god or abortion.

              •  So you want to give Michael Bloomberg (0+ / 0-)

                the power to determine who exactly is a 'belligerent asshole?'

                I really don't think that will work out as well as you think:

                Sorry, but I simply trust my fellow citizens to do the right thing far more than I would trust the likes of Michael Bloomberg.

                Dropping gun and violent crime in the face of soaring gun  sales demonstrate that that trust is well placed.

                The whole decade needs an asterisk.

                by James Kresnik on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 06:32:38 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  At last! The GOP Job Creator nt (5+ / 0-)

      When someone is impatient and says, "I haven't got all day," I always wonder, How can that be? How can you not have all day? George Carlin

      by msmacgyver on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 09:31:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Don't forget... (5+ / 0-)

      Those guards are members of NTEU and paid at GS-7 minimum.  And it takes at least 100,000 managers to coordinate them.

      Early to rise and early to bed Makes a man healthy, wealthy, and dead. --Not Benjamin Franklin

      by Boundegar on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 09:34:17 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  But make sure (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blue aardvark, happymisanthropy

      you cut funding first.  Nothing protects children more than a man with a gun who just got laid off.

      95% of all life forms that once existed on earth are now extinct. It is only a matter of time until the Republicans follow suit.

      by PRRedlin on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 12:58:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  We already hire something like 40M for (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blue aardvark

      just reading our email and listening to our phone sex, so why not?

      American Television is a vast sea of stupid. -xxdr zombiexx

      by glitterscale on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 01:05:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  According to CBO we have 15,000 armed guards (4+ / 0-)

    under contract to protect federal offices around the USA.   We have spent almost $4 TRILLION on "defense" and "homeland security" in the past 4 years.

    So why are our children left unprotected?  Well, aside from some posters saying "Gun Free Zone". Those worked so well at Sandy Hook, no?

    Although I must concede that  nothing promotes a political agenda like martyrs --especially child martyrs.

    How many airliners have bene hijacked by AL Qaeda since our pilots were armed, armed federal marshals were deployed and basic physical protections were added to the cockpit doors??

    The gun control bill will do nothing to buy up the existing 15 million+ Assault rifles.   Plus the common shotgun used by hunters is far more deadly than the assault rifles -- and is more concealable when sawed off.

  •  What a skewed analysis (7+ / 0-)
    Although I must concede that  nothing promotes a political agenda like martyrs --especially child martyrs.
    The implication that those people who have been wounded, shocked and motivated by the tragedy to prevent it happening again to other families are really just exploiting the deaths of children for something you deride as a "political agenda" is so cynical and vicious that I find myself sickened by its meanness.
  •  Regardless of how the gun control fight turns out (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Not A Bot, Boris49

    the kids need better protection.   Even if you banned every gun out there, unopposed maniacs could still kill them --with Molotov cocktails, cars driven into them,etc.  

    A lot of the measures involve things other than armed guards -- federal protective specialists need to look at the problem and design surveillance systems, drills, protective barriers, special tactics, etc.  

    The problem is that the threat facing any one school is very low but unpredictable and disasterous when it occurs.
    So I think the idea of having some teacher volunteers covertly trained and  armed --in exchange for a hazard pay supplement -- may be a frugal approach.

    The Commerce Business Daily contracts list the Federal Protective Service's requires for private armed guards to get a gun: (1) A GED or high school diploma (2) Passing a police background check (3) 2 days of training.

    An armed guard does not need the months of instruction in the entire body of the law that police receive -- he does not need to investigate burglaries or enforce traffic laws.  He should call the police and act only in narrow specific circumstances when a kid or teacher's life is in danger.

    Police scanner log for Sandy Hook indicates it took the police 15 minutes to respond and find the killer.   Depending on remote offsite police does not work.

    •  We are already having issues with a militarized (10+ / 0-)

      police state.

      I believe that a lot more could be done on simply strengthening communities for starters. Encouraging more tight knit neighborhoods, neighbors, etc.,

      Maybe talking to gun owners about the dangers of guns in a house where there are concerns about family members behavior? The time is right for that sort of discussion. I wouldn't wait too long.

      Encouraging to people to think about long term consequences.

      We could arm everyone, and ramp up the fear and paranoia, increase divisions of communities along race, creed, religion and economic status, and then throw heavily armed guards, mercs and police in there, to make a truly spicy mix.

      Or we could start treating each other as human beings, start talking more, working together more, sticking together more for the local common good, and maybe guns can be considered that last ditch effort, rather than the first resort to everything.

      •  I read and post to Comments section (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        zinger99, GreenMother, mungley

        of HuffPo.  Yes, really.

        I recently engaged with a guy who whined that even though he wears his NRA baseball cap and encourages a discussion, he doesn't seem to attract the kind of people he wants to talk to.  In other words, he's looking for a fight, not a discussion.

        We went round and round a bit and finally I said that his choices and his rhetoric are effecting everyone in his life...he denied this.  His replies were argumentative and defensive and it's a good guess that those in his life either enable him, support his point of view or shut him down.  

        The NRA has created a sub-set of gun owners who are more interested in muscle flexing and ranting than listening to sane and well thought out solutions.

        When someone is impatient and says, "I haven't got all day," I always wonder, How can that be? How can you not have all day? George Carlin

        by msmacgyver on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 10:30:33 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Re "we could start treating each other as human (0+ / 0-)


        I agree.   But WHO is promoting and glorifying extreme violence and AGGRESSION to our youths?

        The NRA?  Go to their site and look at their publications.  
        Boring technical manuals with  exhortations about gun safety.   The manuals on police tactics/shooting are restricted to the police and not available to the general public.

        Compare that to the products of the computer game industry and the movies put out by Hollywood producers like Quintin Tarentino.

        •  That is a silly question. (0+ / 0-)

          Adam Lanza was not a child.
          Jerrod Loughner was not a child.
          The Arizona Theater shooter was not a child.

          These were not minors.

          If you are worried about children acting like assholes, I suggest one observe either their parents or other adult role models.

          •  Does rearing have no effect on the eventual (0+ / 0-)


            How many parents are abandoning their children to play computer games and watch violent movies?

            Schools have been vulnerable to these kinds of attacks for over 100 years -- the weapons to commit these atrocities have been available for at least that long.   The Winchester pump shotgun was used to clear trenches of German soldiers back in WWI.

            But these school massacres  have been happening only recently.   Why?

            I don't know the answer -- it requires a lot of study of the incidents.  I've seen several factors mentioned -- single moms afraid to stand up to teenage sons, pressures of the economic recession, middle class collapse into poverty, widespread availability of guns, a culture --even among Hollywood liberals -- that exalts the power of guns, side effects from anti-depressant drugs, etc.

            But the attacks are occurring -- and a broader response is needed than just stopping the future sale of some types of guns.  (Per the Fifth Amendment , to actually ban the 15+ Million assault rifles would require the government buying them -- the no taking without compensation clause.)

            •  I thought I was pretty clear back there. (0+ / 0-)
              ... a broader response is needed than just stopping the future sale of some types of guns.
              Yea I covered a broader response, my answer is an And-if, not an either-or.

              The reasoning promoted for why people want to keep weapons with high capacity rounds, could also be used to justify the collection of explosive devices or vials of deadly pathogens.

              Guns are for defense, target practice, and hunting.

              If you need that many bullets for any of those three things, then perhaps you don't really need one at all because you are either blind or over eager.  

              I am lucky, I can keep my kids at home. There are millions of other Americans who are not in position to make that call, and probably just as many who wouldn't want to. And even then, we have to leave the house some time.

              Why is this happening now? Well in the old days when most people had bolt action rifles and shotguns, or just plain old six shooters, it was more difficult for them to spray innocent unsuspecting civilians in a rapid manner with a large number of bullets.

              Speed Loaders are a helluva a lot more bulky than clips.

              Any death in this manner is unacceptable, but leaving ourselves open to be attacked by nutcases with guns that can fire more than a couple of bullets without reloading, makes absolutely no tactical sense whatsoever.

              I know that only gun owners are supposed to think of tactics, but the funny thing is, non gun owners are totally allowed to take that word and use it too.

              If you really need more than a couple of bullets to defend yourself from enemies, then you either need to work on your people skills, or move.

              Post 1980, people started organizing in large numbers, preparing for one of the following with guns: Race War, Apocalypse, Foreign Invasions, or Coup by various groups believed to be ring leaders in various consipiracy theories--it's a multiple choice test--Jewish folks, NATO, Commies, Satanists, etc., {and no I don't believe in any of this crapola]

              The NRA sided with these people and fed these deep seated fears-- see Ruby Ridge for starters. When 911 happened, it near about pushed them all over the edge. The GOP decided it could use this fear to win them votes, and it did for a short period of time. But neither the NRA nor the GOP can control this deadly narrative, that they have taken so much time to cultivate with religious nationalism and fearful conspiracies.

              The people in these groups are so fearful, they cannot distinguish their friends from their enemies. Is that who you want armed with high capacity weapons? Many want to secede from the Union every time something doesn't go their way, and by their way, I mean every time legislation or national consensus doesn't reflect their bigotry. They carry guns openly to political rallies, to intimidate voters who disagree with their positions.  Because of them, we are so busy watching their antics, that we have to divide our resources between them and a genuine corporate enemy. These people are lose cannons. And their fear mongering periodically results in some fringe adherent going nuts and killing fellow citizens, because they cannot take the self inflicted pressure.

              If the NRA and the GOP, and the Gun Community are incapable of policing it's own behavior, and it's own communities, then someone has to do it for sanity's sake. No matter how responsible I might be, my example is a silent one. No news is good news in this case. So that means the worst make a name for us, and have they ever! And the response from the NRA--More Guns! Not better, more affordable health care screenings for mental health conditions, not raising the age that one can buy a gun, not hiring more police officers, or reconsidering the kinds of guns that are the issue, but no--More guns for everyone! Lets have a gun extravaganza!

              Now we have nutcases with guns, wearing body armor attacking people in public venues. Their [NRA-GOP] answer--Not forbiding civilians from getting body armor, but no--More Guns! Lets arm teachers and and everyone, so we can have wild west shoot out every time someone farts on the bus.

              I have a shotgun. I use it to control varmits.  But for shit's sake, do you mean to tell me I will have to buy thousands of dollars in body armor for me and the kids, and an automatic pistol with a huge clip, just to go to the grocery store or the library? Or the Park? Just in case I have to deal with a crazed shooter?

              We have laws in place that are supposed to prevent nut cases from getting guns, but they work haphazardly. We don't take care of our people, we don't screen them, and then we expect the members of these groups mentioned before, to detect someone slightly more nuts than they are and make the call.

              You can blame this all on parenting, but since there isn't a whole lot we can do about that, then the answer seems pretty clear. Limit access to High Capacity weapons.

              I wish I could say I knew we could do something about mental health in this country too, but I don't have much hope for that. Hell we can't even take care of our own vets, much less look after our own civilian population. And you think we--as a nation are responsible enough to be armed to the teeth?

              America doesn't seem to know the difference between a Warrior Code and a Bully Culture. Maybe we don't deserve to be armed.

              And words at this point are meaningless for a response. If you want to be right, then you and thousands of other Americans need to go out and put your money where your mouth is, make it right.

              I don't want to hear what you think you can do. I want you all to show me and everyone else that you and others are responsible citizens who are committed to contributing to a greater communal good.

    •  There was an armed guard (6+ / 0-)

      at Columbine.

      Not convincing? Ft. Hood is considered the largest military base in the world. The shooter there killed 13 and wounded 30 more.

      •  The problem at Columbine (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        is that the police focused on establishing a perimeter  and waiting for SWAT instead of rushing to immediate confront the attacker.  

        IN fairness , It is hard to come INTO a situation from a remote location and not know if there are snipers, where they are etc.

        You evidently have little knowledge of military bases-- the military locks guns up on armories and keeps tight control of them.   Aside from the MPs, you don't have just every soldier strolling around ladened with weapons like Rambo.

        •  Clarification -- I was referring to military bases (0+ / 0-)

          in the continental US.

        •  why not? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MaikeH, Kevskos, Red Bean

          Why does the U.S. military keep guns locked up and tightly
          controlled on their (U.S.) bases? After all, the folks on those
          bases are arguably the best-trained, most responsible gun
          carriers in the entire population. Shouldn't they be able to
          "exercise their 2nd amendment rights"?

          Perhaps the U.S. military believes that having everyone carrying weapons is actually not ideal, and is not really the way to ensure a "polite society".

          Reminds me in a way of those "gun rights" politicians who are
          happy to prevent anyone from carrying a gun into, say, the House of Representatives... wouldn't they feel safer and more polite if their colleagues and random folks in the visitors gallery were all packing heat?

  •  Freedoms? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drmah, Not A Bot

    The right our children enjoy is be educated.  The right the rest of us enjoy is to have a educated cohort of young adults that will share basic cultural values, like working and not using social assistance when they don't need it.

    Many school districts do have a trained police force.  Many schools do have an officer in the school.  The officer should be there only to protect against extreme threats.  However, as we have a tendency to not like people who appear to not do work, there has been cases where the officer has used force in situations where force may have not been appropriate.  So this is a dilemma that must be resolved t the local level.

    There are many points of egress and ingress in a typical school, so metal detectors and other point security protocols are not effective, except at the lower levels where they can keep the odd kid from sneaking a weapon in.

    I did not go to what many considered safe schools, but I do feel my right to a good education was never infringed.  And there were stabbings and other things at the schools I went to.  I do not see how having a police officer in the school necessarily infringes on the right to be educated.  It may help.  An example may be an abused child who might only trust an officer he or she sees every day.  Not that I am saying an officer in school is a good solution, just that it carefully implemented it may be a net benefit.

    As an previous post suggested, we are really wasting time thinking of extraneous issues in education.  Like morning prayer.  The issue is not if the kids feel free.  School is all about limiting freedom.  Freedom to eat candy all day, freedom to listen to you ipod, freedom to make out in the hall or go off campus and have sex.  It is a controlled environment, and i would suggest that most parents would want this.

    •  Teachers as instructors, social workers, parent (5+ / 0-)

      substitutes, custodial staff, computer technicians, curriculam specalists, artists and classroom designers is really a full time job.  Adding security patrol on top of this is absurb.  A good security guard must be aware  of the total environment, which takes the teacher out of the classroom and diverts her attention from all the other things society thinks a teacher should be doing.

      •  Being a copilot and pilot is demanding (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        but we still gave them them means to defend themselves and their charges.

        The idea that if an armed intruder comes into a school then the teachers need to focus on continuing with the lessons and curriculum is not serious.

        And it does not have to be teachers.   It could be admin staff, janitor, cafeteria cook.   Out of 200 staff at a school it should be possible to find two or three volunteers who will take several days training and pass the tests in exchange for extra pay.

        While I think the identity of the guards needs to be hidden from everyone but the principal and a few others, I think that fact the teachers are guardians would reflect well on the profession as a whole.

        •  The idea of being forced to carry a gun and being (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mungley, Red Bean

          evaluated as a teacher on the basis of my shooting range score scares me spitless.  If you don't think this will be the final result you are naive.  The right=wing nuts are setting school agendas and teacher evaluations now.  Adding "carrying" to the job requirements isn't even a slight stretch.

          •  I , of course, would be utterly opposed to forcing (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            any teacher -- or any other citizen -- to carry a gun.
            I think most Americans would agree.

            (The only case I know of that occurring in the past is in the military draft in times of major war.  And even then there were exemptions for religious objectors.)

            It would also be stupid -- there is no value in coercing someone into being a guard -- they will merely run when faced with the threat.   Rightfully so.

            Any volunteer should be accepted only if they are willing to fight for the kids in the unlikely event a threat ever arose.  Obviously, such volunteers should be compensated for accepting that duty.   Even so, I have no way of knowing if any teachers --or other employees -- would volunteer at some schools.

            •  but putting down teachers who don't want to carry (0+ / 0-)

              WILL happen.  That's how the right-wing gun nuts get their agenda pushed through. Making money the bottom line is dirty pool.

              •  srsly? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                there are plenty of good arguments against the suggestion, but this one is ridiculous.

                Look up "concealed" in a dictionary.

                "The Taibbi article is a defense of status quo" -- citizen k

                by happymisanthropy on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 02:18:39 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  You, obviouly, can't comprehend pressure teachers (0+ / 0-)

                  are already under.  Then to introduce gun requirements ion them is absurb. I know 100s of teachers with hair=trigger tempers who should never be near a weapon of any kind, and I also know 100s of excellent teachers who would be absolutely terrified to carry a weapon.  Making this a job evaluation issuw is even more absurb.

                  •  and who would do that? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    You, obviouly, can't comprehend pressure teachers (0+ / 0-)
                    are already under.
                    I only substitute taught three classes this morning, I'm obviously unqualified to talk about the subject.
                    Making this a job evaluation issuw is even more absurb.
                    "Concealed" means nobody can be sure whether you're armed or not.  If licenses are too easy to get, get one and let your boss think you're carrying.  If they aren't too easy to get, stop complaining about how easy they are.

                    "The Taibbi article is a defense of status quo" -- citizen k

                    by happymisanthropy on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 03:08:24 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

        •  Your silly ideas are unworkable in most school (0+ / 0-)

          Firstly, I don't take your proposals seriously I think you are just plugging for the NRA, but if you are serious, you need to learn more about schools and buildings.

          Secondly, the number of dead kids and teachers  before your imaginary armed hero gets to the murderer can be astronomical.

          It's fun to pretend that you ideas would work, but they are based entirely on fantasy.

          Take back the House in 2014!!!!!!!!!!!! (50 state strategy needed)

          by mungley on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 12:45:57 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I am not a member of the NRA and I have (0+ / 0-)

            no relationship with them.   I think it is silly to say you need to have firearms to fight off a dictator some time in the distant future -- and then do nothing when Dick Cheney destroys half of the Bill of Rights.

          •  You need more than guns (0+ / 0-)

            School guardians need body armor -- and surveillance systems that let a monitor in the principal's office identify the location of an armed intruder and broadcast that to the first responders in code over the intercom.   I think a 30 second to 1 minute response time will save more children than the 15-20 minute one we have now.

            Federal Protective specialists need to examine the problem to work out the best tactics, protective measures,etc.  

  •  violence (0+ / 0-)

    Facing an end-of-the-month deadline, the Obama administration is calling gun owner groups, victims' organizations and representatives from the video-game industry to the White House this week for discussions on potential policy proposals for curbing gun violence.

    Biden will meet Wednesday with gun violence victims' groups and gun safety organizations, a White House official said. On Thursday, he will hold talks with gun ownership groups, as well as advocates for sportsmen. The vice president also plans to meet this week with representatives from the entertainment and video-game industries. The official was not authorized to discuss the meetings before they were publicly announced and thus spoke on condition of anonymity.

    In addition to Biden's meetings this week, Education Secretary Arne Duncan will meet this week with parent and teacher groups, while Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius will meet with mental health and disability advocates.

    The White House said other meetings are also scheduled with community organizations, business owners and religious leaders.


    You stand here now in the footsteps of so many women who would have liked to have been here but didn't get the shot. You have a band of sisters and we're going to change history. ~ Sen. Barbara Mikulski D-MD speaking to Senator Elizabeth Warren

    by anyname on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 09:14:12 AM PST

  •  Maybe this has already been posted.. (6+ / 0-)

    Stanley McChrystal coming out for gun restrictions this morning on Morning Joe.

    Retired Gen. Stanley McChrystal backed banning assault weapons on Tuesday, saying guns like the M4 and M16 belong in the hands of soldiers, not on the streets.
    ”I spent a career carrying typically either a M16 and later, a M4 carbine,” McChrystal said on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.” “And a M4 carbine fires a .223 caliber round, which is 5.56 millimeters, at about 3,000 feet per second. When it hits a human body, the effects are devastating. It’s designed to do that. That’s what our soldiers ought to carry.”

    He added, “I personally don’t think there’s any need for that kind of weaponry on the streets and particularly around the schools in America. I believe that we’ve got to take a serious look — I understand everybody’s desire to have whatever they want — we have to protect our children and our police and we have to protect our population. And I think we have to take a very mature look at that.”

  •  sick of this (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kevskos, mungley, happymisanthropy

    we wouldn't have to have this whole school-gun debate if they'd just employ drones and flamethrowers.

    ** just kidding- the whole affair really pisses me off big time.

    thanks for cartoon. my kids are grown... otherwise, i don't think i would like it.

    People who say they don't care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don't care what people think. -George Carlin

    by downtownLALife on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 09:15:34 AM PST

  •  Giffords launch group to counter (5+ / 0-)

    gun lobby:

    “In response to a horrific series of shootings that has sown terror in our communities, victimized tens of thousands of Americans, and left one of its own bleeding and near death in a Tucson parking lot, Congress has done something quite extraordinary - nothing at all,” the pair wrote in an editorial published Tuesday on their site and in USA Today.

    When someone is impatient and says, "I haven't got all day," I always wonder, How can that be? How can you not have all day? George Carlin

    by msmacgyver on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 09:23:46 AM PST

  •  It'll be easy! Just recruit from the same... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    population as the one where we get those fine TSA robocop wannabees...

    Amercia's finest.

    Meh. TSA.

    Ugh. --UB.

    "Daddy, every time a bell rings, a Libertaria­n picks up his Pan Am tickets for the Libertaria­n Paradise of East Somalia!"

    by unclebucky on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 09:40:41 AM PST

  •  Cradle to grave (3+ / 0-)

    as a slave in the prison industrial complex.

  •  Living in a police state is the only way to defend (0+ / 0-)

    the sacred freedoms of the Second Amendment.  Why would anybody want it any other way?

    Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

    by DefendOurConstitution on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 12:40:56 PM PST

  •  ARGGG!!!!!! (2+ / 0-)

    Why does that soldier have his finger in the trigger well!!!! redraw this cartoon immediately!!! That is NOT proper weapon posture!

    breathe... slow deep breaths...

    Sorry about that, 10 years in combat arms will do that to a guy.

    You can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America.

    by Eric Stratton on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 12:54:31 PM PST

    •  Also, the flag on his shoulder is wrong way round. (2+ / 0-)

      For those who don't know why.

      And yeah, weapon should be a low ready too, since right now he's probably flagging somebody.

      I don't blame Christians. I blame Stupid. Which sadly is a much more popular religion these days.

      by detroitmechworks on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 01:06:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's the trigger finger that makes me flinch. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        It should be straight, extended across the trigger well. That little piggy never touches the trigger itself unless you're gonna fire the weapon.

        Years of weapon immersion training will make you never want to do that in public for the immediate negative consequences which will follow if anyone sees you doing it. It's how you tell a professional from an amateur.

        You can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America.

        by Eric Stratton on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 02:24:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  As a father of 5 grown sons and a trend junkie... (0+ / 0-)

    ...I'm very very pessimistic that anything truly substantial regarding anything 'gun.'

    And if the evil soothsayers keep spinning hate rhetoric to the contingents of psychotic, pissed off tea baggers toting assault weapons- truly believing that their warped since of liberty is threatened....
    we could have some real shit come down.

    Get money involved as a counterweight to the gun lobby:
    Mandatory liability insurance. Let the gun lobby and ins lobby and aba battle it out. Pay a cut off the top to the states, locals, municipalities- entice those tea bag jerk offs

    Sadly, we're deeply embedded in 'show me the money' culture.
    We manipulate it to our favor, or just express outrage and add it to our shit list of disillusionment.

    RePosted part of this from other diary comment because I feel very strongly about it

    People who say they don't care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don't care what people think. -George Carlin

    by downtownLALife on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 01:59:19 PM PST

  •  Matt, what a great piece! It captures more than (0+ / 0-)

    all the discussions and pie fights we have had about giving up some rights and balancing some rights versus others.

    Sadly the irony is lost to many that to preserve a "sacred freedom" we must sacrifice all others; it kind of reminds me of Vietnam: "we had to burn the village in order to save it.".

    Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

    by DefendOurConstitution on Tue Jan 08, 2013 at 02:02:47 PM PST

    •  Well get this: The Pen is mighter than the sword (0+ / 0-)

      Especially if the pen wrote a US Army technical manual titled "Improvised Munitions Handbook".  Created back during the Cold War when we were training Freedom Fighters.   Widely available on the Internet.
      Unless you want to ban the First Amendment as well.

      You can ban every gun in existence and you are still going to have massacres if some moron is willing to die.  As I noted above, the schools were just as vulnerable 100 years ago --but we didn't have so many sick sonsabitches, for some reason.

      We need to protect the schools, the teachers and the kids.  Now.  

  •  Petition: Teachers Against Guns in Schools (0+ / 0-)

    Please read this petition, and sign if you agree that arming our teachers is a really bad idea. We are working hard to build the coalition for new legislation to replace the awkward 'gun free zones' law that has been constitutionally challenged. Join us! Everyone should sign, but the comments from teachers will be particularly persuasive.

    TAGS: teachers against guns in schools.

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