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A photograph of a
A sign at a vigil after the assassination of Dr. George Tiller, who was murdered by a "pro-life" terrorist
Ah, January in Washington D.C. Bare trees, icy sidewalks, inauguration plans underway—and terrorists dressed up like sweet little grandmothers bussing to the nation's capital, ready for their annual celebration of restricting women's access to health care.

That's right, it's time for Fetuspalooza 2013!

Ever since the Supreme Court held in 1973 that yes, women have the right to decide whether and when they want to have children—a right that has been redefined, restricted and outright denied ever since—the fetus fetishists have gathered for the "March for Life" to either celebrate or mourn, depending on just how successful their war on women and doctors has been in the preceding year. In 2012, 19 states passed 43 new laws restricting reproductive rights, so you figure there will be an awful lot of celebrating at this year's march.

Sarah Kliff at the Washington Post writes about one such fetus fetishist who has devoted her life to terrorizing the Allegheny Reproductive Health Center in Pennsylvania and is very excited about her upcoming four-hour bus trip to "to spend the day with 100,000 other people who feel the same way that I do"—meaning, of course, a big group hug with thousands of other like-minded terrorists.

Helen Cindrich got her start in 1972, when "she saw a woman on a television talk show describing her pregnancy as a 'parasite.'" Cindrich turned to her local Catholic diocese to find out what she could do to stop women from having non-Cindrich-approved feelings about their pregnancies. Naturally, her diocese was only too happy to help her get involved in the movement because Jesus was all about preventing women from accessing health care, even when it means they're going to die, because that's so lifey.

From there, Cindrich started harassing people in shopping malls, which eventually led to the position of executive director of the anti-women's group People Concerned for the Unborn Child, a position that apparently involved getting carted off to jail regularly for terrorizing patients outside the health clinic she'd targeted. This health clinic:

The violence escalated at the clinic’s new location. A firebomb caused $5,000 in damage. Several hundred protesters would turn out at the clinic on a regular basis. Some jammed a Chevrolet Chevette into the clinic’s door. Police had to cut the car in half to remove the two protesters inside.
Because of course when you think of wanting to protect "life," you think of violence and firebombs.

Eventually, the movement to deny health care to women by any means necessary started to shift its tactics, and while "pro-lifers" still regularly use violence as a means of trying to shut down the clinics—like in Florida and Wisconsin and Georgia—they've also moved on to pushing for absurd legislation intended to so restrict women's access to health care that their protection under Roe v. Wade might as well not exist at all. Legislation like the law passed in Pennsylvania in 2011, which established nonsensical requirements for abortion providers, has succeeded in its intended purpose:

Eight of Pennsylvania’s 22 surgical abortion providers failed to gain approval under the new law. They can offer medical abortions, using a prescription drug, but not perform surgical procedures. To comply with the regulations, abortion clinics will need to install hospital-grade elevators and have a set number of parking spaces.
Because obviously a health clinic cannot safely provide health care to women without hospital-grade elevators.

These are the kinds of victories Cindrich and her fellow terrorists will celebrate as they gather in Washington D.C. later this month. Of course, they don't call themselves terrorists and don't consider what they do terrorism. But when your movement employs threats, intimidation, violence, bombing and even assassination—like the cold-blooded murder of Dr. George Tiller in his very own church—to achieve the political goal of scaring people away from exercising their protected rights, well, as the saying goes, it's a duck.

Originally posted to Kaili Joy Gray on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 10:07 AM PST.

Also republished by Pro Choice, DKos Pennsylvania, Abortion, Pittsburgh Area Kossacks, and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Hospital Grade Elevators (9+ / 0-)

    The Right has an Elevator Fetish thanks to Romney

    As the Elites Come Together to Rise Above to Find a Third Way to do Rude things to the 99%

    by JML9999 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 10:22:24 AM PST

  •  We've GOT to elect more Democratic women (8+ / 0-)

    across the board - county, state, and federal levels.

    The bishops are interested in power. The nuns are interested in the powerless. ~Garry Wills

    by tejanablue on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 10:41:41 AM PST

  •  And time for the news' annual Balanced Coverage (9+ / 0-)

    of the Roe vs. Wade anniversary:

    1) One story giving plenty of time or column space to woman-haters oozing lies about 'post-abortion stress syndrome' and Planned Parenthood's jihad against babies.

    2) And one story about ONE (maybe two) women who Had An Abortion Once and Now Regret It With All Their Hearts and Souls and Empty Arms and Know It's the Worst Thing They've Ever Done. Extra points if the woman/women needed therapy for depression afterward, or were found to be infertile in later years.

    See? We talked about both sides equally fairly, the Babysavers and the Babykillers, we're a real news outlet!

    •  In most years, the MSM does a fantastic job... (0+ / 0-)

      ... of ignoring this event, actually.

    •  since you mentioned jihad, a simple observation (4+ / 0-)

      that the countries with the most restrictive reproductive policies are either under Catholic influenced law such as Ireland or are under a form of severe Sharia Law.

      Since several states have now passed laws that Sharia Law cannot be the law of the land, I hope choice groups will take these legislators for violating their own laws, where it can be shown that their state laws mirror Sharia Law in other countries.  Are there no more innovative civil rights lawyers out there who can not force states to obey their own bans on all vestiges of Sharia Law?

      •  The problem is that the religious have been (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Pandoras Box

        hammering the idea of personhood relentlessly for so long that they have created an at large cultural belief in it.
        Young adults and teens while saying they are pro-choice, would never terminate a pregnancy or request a termination choice of their girlfriend or wife.  These "kids" have bought into the notion of personhood of the fetus for themselves personally whether they are religious or attend church or not.  Most "kids" think that going through with a pregnancy is the moral choice no matter what.  Culturally, choosing abortion is considered immoral and shameful and now, killing a person.
        Dehumanizing the fetus has lost us the battle in the long term.  We need to change our stale and sterile and clinical arguments before it is too late.
        I know that we don't like to hear this but, I am begging for pro-choice people to open their hearts and minds to the fact that we are going to lose reproductive rights with the same tired assertions.
        I am not arguing that I personally believe in personhood per se.  I am older and am pro-choice.  I believe that abortion is a moral choice and I feel alone in that assertion even here.

  •  I was there in '93 (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LinSea, hnichols, Mayfly

    One of a dozen or so counter-protesters - against maybe 50,000 pro-life folks.  It was eye-opening, although about as non-threatening as it could be given the sheer number of them.  

  •  I feel the word "terrorism" is too often overused (5+ / 0-)

    or used wrongly.  I dislike seeing it used to describe any act of violence that has the result of frightening people -- the Sandy Hook massacre, for instance.

    This is a precisely correct use of the word.

    threats, intimidation, violence, bombing and even assassination ... to achieve the political goal of scaring people away
    That right there?  That is terrorism, plain and simple: terrifying people for the purpose of achieving a sociopolitical goal.  They're not even pretending that isn't exactly what they're doing.
    •  Rachel had a segment about the last (11+ / 0-)

      clinics in several states and focused on the re-opening of Dr. Tiller's clinic.  It was such a moving and inspiring story of people committed to providing abortion services and the sacrificies they all make.

      One woman discussed her interaction with the anti-abortion terrorists who harass clients and staff.  She recounted a story which sent a chill up my spine where one of the protesters continually called her by her first name.  Up close and personal terrorism.

       

      When someone is impatient and says, "I haven't got all day," I always wonder, How can that be? How can you not have all day? George Carlin

      by msmacgyver on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:28:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  problem right now is the left accepts the (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DvCM

      appellation while the Right is successful in claiming that they are never terrorists, arguing that either their killers are Muslims and Leftists on false flag missions like McVeigh or else lone wolf operatives such as Tiller's killer  

  •   People Concerned for the Unborn Child (5+ / 0-)

    It's always the unborn child isn't it? How can they be so concerned about fetuses and so absolutely heartless about actual living children? What is it about the fetus that makes them go all G.I. Joe to accomplish their goals but they'll watch actual children starving and not even give it a second thought.?

    •  hnichols, I think it is because the "unborn child" (4+ / 0-)

      costs them nothing.  A living breathing child, on the other hand, requires care, food, clothing, education, etc.--in other words, some financial and/or physical commitment.

      So, after you're born--you're on your own, kid.

      Fiscal conservative: a Republican ready to spend $5 to save a dime--especially if that dime is helping a non-donor.

      by Mayfly on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 01:00:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  They have no concern for the unborn (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LadyMiseryAli, hnichols

      Because they don't want to help with food, shelter or health care for the mother. They don't want to reduce pollution that affects the fetus far more than anyone else. They don't want to help the mother get out of abusive situations, which is harmful for her and the fetus.

      They only care about forcing birth, that's why I call them forced birthers.

      Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

      by splashy on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 05:02:04 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Forced Pregnancy (3+ / 0-)

        not t even forced birth.  Deep in their black little hearts, they give a nasty little cheer when the pregnancy kills the woman, irreparably harming her children, etc.

        •  That's All They Are About: Forced Birth. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bfbenn

          They care absolutely nothing at all about the fact that millions of women's lives (yes, the QUALITY of their lives) has been greatly enhanced by our ability to decide whether and if to reproduce. This includes the right to terminate a tragic, unwanted pregnancy as a back up,  if one's contraception fails (and yes, if someone makes a mistake by failing to use contraception, it is still their decision to decide whether to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term).  I know many women who hate to think where their lives would be right now if they had to give birth while being an unmarried high school teenager or college student, etc.

          I cannot think of a more anti-woman movement than the Forced Birth movement that hypocritically calls itself "Pro-Life". The havoc they wreak on women's lives is nothing short of obscene.  

          If Not Us, Who,..... If Not Now, When?

          by VirginiaBlue on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 11:58:02 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The religious constant pounding of the notion of (0+ / 0-)

            personhood has become the cultural default for even the non-religious.
            Until a woman can hold her head high for the choice of abortion, reproductive control will be at jeopardy.  
            The choice of abortion is a moral one.

    •  ask the protestors how many of them have (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pandoras Box, METAL TREK, irishwitch

      adopted any children.  Very few is the answer.
      If they argue abortion should not be birth control, then ask them why do they attempt to hamstring the other methods? If they say pregnancy is God's punishment, ask them when God became so impotent He needed them to enforce His will?

    •  In all fairness ... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dogs are fuzzy, bige1030

      ... Catholic charities and many, many other Christian groups that happen to believe abortion is wrong also do a tremendous amount of good work, stocking and running food banks, providing clothing for underprivileged children, helping families with heating bills, providing medical care, and so on.  I'm obviously not a Christian, but I admire much of what is done by many who follow that faith.  It's unfair and untrue to state that just because they disagree with abortion, that they also don't care for born children.

      It's also unjust to lump them all together as terrorists.  Yes, there are dangerous nutcases among the Christians, but they are the exception rather than the rule.  The anti-abortion folks are mainly just people, with good and bad qualities, just as you are, and just as I am.    

      To use such hyperbole is as disingenuous as the right making the claim that environmentalists care more for trees than they do for people.  

      Footnote:  I admit to occasionally wondering if a tree might be of more intrinsic worth than all of the extremists, right and left, combined -- especially when it's 100 degrees out, and I'm reclining in the shade.

      Additional footnote:  Hnichols, my comments aren't aimed at you in particular.  Your comment just seemed like a good place to insert my thoughts in the larger discussion.  

      The wisdom of my forebears ... Two wise people will never agree. Man begins in dust and ends in dust — meanwhile it's good to drink some vodka. A man studies until he's seventy and dies a fool.

      by Not A Bot on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 12:32:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  After John Salvi murdered 2 women & injured 5 (4+ / 0-)

    other people at women's clinics in Brookline, Mass. in '94, I was concerned that we would lose volunteer escorts at our clinics in another state.  

    Far from it.  Not only did all our original escorts stay on, many more young women came out to volunteer.  My job the weekend after was to make sure our city's clinics were all covered. I remember driving past one, and seeing a young college student wearing her "volunteer" vest standing on a rise near the clinic parking lot, her long hair blowing in the wind like a flag.  

    I was proud of my gender.

    Fiscal conservative: a Republican ready to spend $5 to save a dime--especially if that dime is helping a non-donor.

    by Mayfly on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 12:54:33 PM PST

  •  Dear "Angry Mouse"... (0+ / 0-)

    Who would have thought that someone with "Joy" in her name could be so angry?  

    Life is too short to to spend it demonizing innocent grandmas (or fresh-faced teenagers, or middle-aged fathers, or kids with balloons, etc.).  Saying that pro-lifers, in general, are violent terrorists makes about as much sense as saying that liberals, in general, are bloodthirsty baby eaters or something.  In other words, I don't do it, because I know darn well it's not true.

    You've conveniently left out some details from the Washington Post that deflate your claims.  Helen Cindrich was not arrested in connection with any violence or vandalism, and her "harrassment" at the mall consisted of manning a booth with brochures and cookies.  Horrors!  Are you going to say the cookies must have been poisoned, or is that one notch too over-the-top?

    Look, reading this, I mostly just feel bad for you.  It can't be healthy to harbor such intense vitriol toward imaginary terrorists.  If you lived in my area you'd be welcome to come down to our 40 Days and see how harmless we really are.  The clinic's security escort doesn't even stick around to make sure clients catch their ride; we've assisted some girls who seriously looked like they might pass out while waiting.  You could even come down to the resource center where we keep all the clothing, diapers, grocery cards, etc. if you'd promise not to try to scare people away from our help.  The only terror we want anyone to feel is the fear of having been wrong about something vitally important -- and only for as long as it takes to switch sides.

    More and more people are seeing through the hyperbole and hysterics and caricatures.  I hope someday you will see too, and be as embarrassed by this piece as I am for your sake, and not regard me as an enemy.  I won't sit on my laurels and wait, but it would be nice.

    •  Anti-abortion terrorism is not imaginary. (17+ / 0-)

      Among medical personnel, it's only abortion providers who have to go to work wearing bulletproof vests, because some of their colleagues have been shot dead in cold blood.
          Abortion clinics have been firebombed, pipe-bombed, and contaminated with butyric acid.
          At various times when I have done clinic defense, I've been shoved and pushed up against a plate glass window so hard I wondered whether I was going through it and had gentle Christians stomp at my sandaled feet with their heavy boots.
          When abortion is illegal, women die from illegal and/or self-induced abortions. While you continue to work to make abortion illegal, you are my enemy. I am glad that Kaili Joy Gray uses her talent at writing to defend women's reproductive freedom, and I don't think she has anything to be embarrassed about. You, on the other hand, may someday come to feel some embarrassment about the bullies with whom you have chosen to associate yourself.

      I could have been a soldier... I had got part of it learned; I knew more about retreating than the man that invented retreating. --Mark Twain

      by NogodsnomastersMary on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:21:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  These Forced Birthers Cannot Be Reasoned With.... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        qofdisks, Pandoras Box, bfbenn

        ...all they care about is trying to force women to carry unwanted pregnancies to term against our will by any means necessary. They care absolutely nothing about the fact that millions of women are light years better off as a result of safe, legal abortion and contraception. The only thing they care about is fetuses and themselves. They care absolutely nothing about your nor my circumstances nor anyone else's.  

        If Not Us, Who,..... If Not Now, When?

        by VirginiaBlue on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 12:01:16 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Unfortunately, the pro-choice people are not (0+ / 0-)

          putting forth this rational argument as a moral basis for the choice of abortion.
          The keep repeating the dehumanization of the fetus argument which has no emotional appeal at all.  It is shallow thinking that is losing the right to choose in this nation.
          We should acknowledge the potential actualization of personhood and parenthood and honor the choice of no actualization for the sake of the well-being of the living.  This makes the choice of abortion socially acceptable and moral.  It is a deeper rational for a sane and correct and moral choice.

      •  enness should make us all aware that the notion of (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Pandoras Box

        personhood has become common place and considered normal and obviously a moral default.  Soccer moms in the mall with bake sales.  They don't have to bomb clinics anymore, they are passing legislation.  Regular calm folks are making access to reproductive choice less and less available.  It is insidious.
        I keep screaming for the moral stand that no child should be born into lack of preparedness and time poverty.

    •  sad that you choose (11+ / 0-)

      to ignore the data on your anti-choice teammates. None of the facts that Ms. Gray cited in her essay are incorrect. Women's health clinics HAVE been firebombed. Women's health providers HAVE been murdered. Anti-choice brigades standing outside of women's health clinics HAVE terrorized and harassed patients and their escorts. And so on.

      I understand that you have a radical sense of your rightness, but that doesn't make you right.

    •  You are defending a woman whose entire (4+ / 0-)

      adult life has been spent attempting to deny women the legal right to make their own choices.

      Roe at 40: ‘It’s never been this frightening before.’
      Posted by Sarah Kliff on January 14, 2013 at 8:30 am

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

      When someone is impatient and says, "I haven't got all day," I always wonder, How can that be? How can you not have all day? George Carlin

      by msmacgyver on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:40:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Enness, You're Playing Ostrich (10+ / 0-)

      ...and ignoring reality.

      I've escorted weekly at a PP clinic for over nine years and have seen everything from sweet little misinformed or willfully ignorant (take your pick) ladies to salivating terrorizers and everything in between. I've even witnessed a pitch verbal battle, with lots of shoving, between the civil protesters (the minority) and the terrorizers (the majority).

      There is nothing nice about the terrorizers. They scream falsehood after falsehood and threaten patients, their companions, the staff, and escorts. They take photographs of license plates and faces, show up at the homes of doctors and escorts in an attempt to intimidate, and get real ugly in the face of patients when they can.

      Despite these efforts, I've yet to see them succeed in dissuading one woman from entering the clinic. But I've seen them issued many citations for disorderly conduct, blocking access, or refusing to obey an officer's order.

      With a few exceptions they are not civilly disobedient or informative. At best they misinform. At worst they threaten violence (I know because I've been threatened multiple times).

    •  nice dream world you're living in (4+ / 0-)
    •  I have experienced your Christian concern (9+ / 0-)

      at close range. I was a counselor at a rape crisis center, escorting a victim who hadn't reported the rape because she never saw the ace of the man who raped her in a dark alley. You and your pals were so "concerned" you called her a babykiller and me a Nazi. You didn't know her from Adam or EVe or Ateve for that matter. She was there for STD testing and the early form of Plan B. But you felt the need to demonize her, who had already suffered a cruel violation.  And some of the people there were sweet-faced grandmothers and Good Christian Ladies.

      You can take your concern and stick where your head is --and the sun don't shine there.

      The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

      by irishwitch on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 11:04:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Wow The honey oozes from your dipper (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pandoras Box

      Are you from that 40 days for life group that drives out demons by praying and fasting?    

    •  Don't waste your time (0+ / 0-)

      responding to comments posted by people who just joined DailyKos, probably to troll diaries such as this one.

      "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." - William Pitt

      by blueinnc on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 05:48:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I escorted at a clinic (4+ / 0-)

      for 3 years.  During those three years we had protesters every Saturday, sometimes a half dozen, sometime hundreds, the door locks were filled with glue, stink bombs and stinky chemical were tossed into the clinic.  The electricity was cut several times.

      The protesters regularly broke the law, trespassed into spaces where they had been forbidden to enter (by law) physically blocked and harassed patients, and lied about what they did when the police were called.  I saw women chased onto buses by a man screaming 'Murderess, you have a murderess on this bus."  They hurled themselves to their knees and prayed for 'your lesbian souls' all they while speculating graphically on 'lesbian sins'.  They screamed at women, they screamed at men, they brought their children into a potentially dangerous situation and pointed us out to them as 'evildoers.'  I saw one woman with 4 kids under about age 7 (including an infant) who marched them in the cold for 2 hours, then piled them into a car - none of the children were belted in and she held the infant in her arms as they drove away.

      We finally stopped the harassment by putting a camera in the bar across the street and filming their illegal behavior.  Then we took them to court, showed the film and got a restraining order that kept them across the street.  After a couple years the clinic moved to a place where they couldn't get anywhere near the entrance and they gave up.  The 'pro-life' crowd in Oregon is relegated to showing up in Salem and whining a couple of times a year.

      Plus, the Supreme Court of Oregon ruled that the state constitution requires that the state pay for Medicaid abortions.  

  •  Attacking activists (0+ / 0-)

    Well I'm used to this. Having been in the peace movement for more than 5 decades, I've gotten all sorts of insults as supposedly pro-Communist or pro-terrorist or traitors or yellow bellies. Having been in the civil rights movement, I've heard the charges that peaceful civil rights demonstrators are causing the violence of the racists against them. And in the pro-life movement, we get all sorts of accusations like those in this "article."

    All of this serves to obfuscate the truth and justify the killing and ill treatment of human beings. I refuse to be intimidated. I insist on standing for the dignity and worth of every life. If that causes me to be insulted by the right and left, Democrats and Republicans, so be it. They have persecuted those standing for the dignity and worth of life for millenia.

    •  20% of the gyno/maternity beds (17+ / 0-)

      in the hospitals in this country used to be routinely allocated to the care of women with perforated uteruses, peritonitis, vaginal burns from caustic chemicals, and gas gangrene, among other sequelae of illegal abortions. Those beds are no longer needed for such purposes. If people like you succeed in making abortion illegal, I suppose you will congratulate yourself when the abortion casualties start again, as you congratulate yourself for participating in the peace and civil rights movements.
          Unwanted pregnancy breeds desperation. Making abortion illegal will not end abortion. All it will do will be to force pregnant women into risking their lives to retain control over their own bodies.

      I could have been a soldier... I had got part of it learned; I knew more about retreating than the man that invented retreating. --Mark Twain

      by NogodsnomastersMary on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:30:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  NogodsnomastersMary Is Right (9+ / 0-)

        Staff throughout the country commonly called them

        ...Coat Hanger Wards...
        Restrictions on access to abortion do not reduce their frequency. They only push more abortions outside the health system and move hospitals closer to resurrecting them and make the procedure riskier to a pregnant woman than a pregnancy carried to term when the opposite is true in a world of rational access.
      •  And 40 years of legal abortion (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Pandoras Box, qofdisks

        means that no one under about age 55 remembers what it was like before Roe v Wade.  

        I'm 64 - I remember girls in the dorm who went to a motel,  I worked with a married woman who douched with Lysol because she and her husband didn't want another child just then, I know a woman who was rendered infertile because of a botched abortion.  ER docs and nurses were some of the most vocal proponents of legal abortion because they saw the results every day.

        I live in one of the 17 states that pay for Medicaid abortions, and which has managed to pretty much marginalize the forced birther crowd, but I would guess that in some of the states that are doing everything they can to stop women from making their own decisions it must be approaching those days again.

    •  ah, so the women's health providers (11+ / 0-)

      have been firebombing their own clinics?

      The citizens who support women's legal right to choose whether or not to continue a pregnancy have been standing outside your place of business insulting your clients?

      Sorry - I must have missed that somewhere.

    •  You are not pro-life (9+ / 0-)

      You are anti-choice.

      When someone is impatient and says, "I haven't got all day," I always wonder, How can that be? How can you not have all day? George Carlin

      by msmacgyver on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:42:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  when you don't give ONE SHIT about any aspect (8+ / 0-)

      of a woman's life except that she might want an abortion, and you don't want her to have one ? THAT, my friend, THAT is the ill treatment of human beings...human beings that are already born, already have a life, may even have other children they are responsible for.

      You know NOTHING about these women, NOTHING about their lives, NOTHING about their medical history, because YOU DON'T FUCKING CARE about any of that.  ALL you care about is forcing women who don't want to be pregnant to give birth.

      •  Now, why do you think they believe that (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Pandoras Box

        Pandoras Box?
        It is a cultural default that choosing abortion is killing a person and is immoral.
        Nothing can stand up to that belief.  We need to carry our arguments farther to justify the moral choice of abortion.  Prolific unwanted babies born into sub-optimal circumstances is a detriment to ALL OF US in society.  Honor the woman that chooses to wait until circumstances warrant reproduction. Be grateful for the moral choice of reproductive control by any means.

    •  RIP Shannon Lowney (8+ / 0-)

      A vibrant young woman I knew, murdered by John Salvi in 1994 along with her co-worker Leanne Nichols at Planned Parenthood in Brookline, Mass. She was doing her job as a receptionist, helping women have access to health care.

      Your "movement" gets the labels it deserves.

    •  Well, wsamuel, I acknowledge the worth and dignity (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pandoras Box

      of life.  Have expressed that sentiment, any species that does not cull degenerates.  That all conceptions should morally be carried to term is not true.  Culling our young so that our children are born into preparedness and time wealth from adults as required for optimum development is more dignified and respectful of life than birth at any cost under any circumstance.
      There is nothing respectful or moral about birthing children into sub-standard nurturing and lack of devotion for that nurturing by prepared adults.
      If women where choosing not to have children until the circumstances were right, our social policies would accommodate our children.
      If it was culturally immoral to go through with pregnancies only to give birth to a lack of prepareness and time poverty, then society would change for the better as we all suggest here.
      I honor women that choose reproductive control by any means with gratitude and respect.  Abortion is often the moral choice.

  •  In Canada, abortion has been (7+ / 0-)

    Legal, safe and readily available for decades.

    Thanks to Henry Morgenthaler.

    Sorry for no linky. Look him up.

    Your country needs someone like him: brabe, bold, intrwpid and willing to stand trial, in the knowledge that in th last analysis, our supreme court will rightly interpret our Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

    Best.

    Td

    I know you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. -- S.I. Hayakawa

    by tapu dali on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:14:34 PM PST

  •  Fetuspalooza is awesome. T&R for that alone! (7+ / 0-)

    Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

    by tekno2600 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:20:24 PM PST

    •  I wonder what other right wing crazy fests they (4+ / 0-)

      are planning:

      Instead of Burning Man, I am sure they'd like to do Burning Woman. In fact, I think they would like to make that a prelude to bringing back Witch Burning in as many places as possible.

      Instead of South by Southwest, I think they like prefer South by Nothing Else...cuz Republicans are pretty much an old, White, male, Southerner party today.

      Instead of Summer Fest, they have Teabagger Fest, etc...

      I could go on, but help me out here, people. My music festival lore is limited. Please give me your suggestions.

      Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

      by tekno2600 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:32:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Fetishists? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ctprog
    Fetish - An excessive attachment or regard.
    Is it wrong to wish that a mother won't kill an unborn child?  

    When does the attachment become excessive?  Somewhere on the continuum between the morning after pill and partial birth abortion, I guess.  

    I don't believe in abortion.  Being a man, I don't think it's my place to tell a woman she can't have one, but don't tell me that people who think that in most instances a fetus deserves a chance to come to term, i.e. in circumstances where the selection of the sex of child is the determining factor, are fetishists.  

    Intolerance betrays want of faith in one's cause. - Gandhi

    by SpamNunn on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:25:26 PM PST

  •  wow - I am surprised at all the anti-choice trolls (10+ / 0-)

    here...I somehow thought we had grown beyond this.

    sigh

    compassion for the fetus without any to spare for the woman - that is fetus worship

  •  new proposals for access to healthcare (4+ / 0-)

    in the future, new patients would have to:
    : hit 3 successive 3 point shots from midcourt
    kick 2 field goals from the 50 yard line
    balance the national budget while singing the national anthem
    and bring about world peace.

    After doing all this, they can complete a new pt application and return 3 days later to see if their application has been accepted.

    This makes as much sense as some of the state restrictions, such as clinic docs having to have hospital privileges,    

  •  Just another lifelong tax (5+ / 0-)

    On so many who are being put in a situation where access to care is far away.  Thus, they end up with medical expenses they can't pay, a child they can't afford or didn't want, and for all of that they will soon be attacked by the same conservatives who put them in this position as dead-beat medicaid recipients.

    What's funny is that the anti-abortion people never consider that the most effective way to lower abortions - keep it safe, legal and rare is to make better access to birth control and to provide better sex education.

    They could also embrace gays and lesbians, but I think that kind of thinking would baffle them too much.

    Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

    by Chris Reeves on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:56:27 PM PST

    •  More than tax. A child requires much more than (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pandoras Box

      money.  A child requires adult time and attention.  Multiple adults are actually required to properly raise a human being.
      It is immoral to bring children into the world for which optimal conditions do not exist.  It demeans both mother and child.

  •  To the whackos who think abortion is murder, tell (5+ / 0-)

    me this.

    Do you believe in God?

    Do you believe a fetus has a soul?

    Do you think a soul can be killed?

    So, what difference would it make it a soul entered a little clump of embryonic cells and then left a few days later when the cells were ejected from the body? Two thirds of the time, a fertilized embryo fails to implant successfully, and is naturally flushed out of the body, making God the world's greatest abortionist.

    So, do you seriously think that a just God would punish an innocent soul for entering and leaving a body through no fault of its own?

    Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

    by tekno2600 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 09:16:49 PM PST

  •  Should we fight them as terrorists? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    irishwitch

    Should we fight the anti-abortionists in the same way we fight terrorists outside the US?  When these terrorists have gatherings like this Fetuspalooza, should we destroy it using a drone missle?  And should we also use Navy SEAL teams to eliminate Sarah Kliff and Randall Terry and the like?

  •  Trouble with Christians (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tardis10, RadGal70, Pandoras Box

    is that they don't remain cute little fetuses forever.

  •  Diary recommended for two reasons ... (0+ / 0-)

    First, Kaili Joy Gray once again stirred up debate -- some thoughtful, and some not so -- which is an important goal of any editorial.  And the piece is well written, even though I don't agree with piling all protesters into one big terrorist heap.  I already said that, though.

    Geez, abortion is a tough subject, one of the most volatile -- if not THE most volatile -- trigger topics in American culture.  Very few people are unpolarized on the matter.  Me?  I don't like abortion.  It hurts to think about it.  I dislike every part of the process, and I hate to think that there is a need for it.  But in spite of all that, I believe that if a woman's life or physical health or emotional health are endangered, abortion is permissible.  It's a difficult choice between two lives, one established, and one barely beginning.  The woman is the party responsible for making that decision, along with whatever counsel she chooses to seek, if any, whether it be from rabbi, priest, pastor, clinic counselor, doctor, husband, boyfriend, girlfriend, dog or cat.  It's up to her.  I wouldn't want to have to make that decision.  

    I didn't always see abortion from this perspective, so I guess my thought process has evolved over the years.  You warred-on wimmenfolks can claim a victory of sorts -- a somewhat begrudged victory, but a victory nevertheless.    

    Oh, the second reason for the recommendation?  I just realized tonight that I could recommend a diary, and I've always thought Kaili Joy was a beautiful name, made more so by the fact that it befuddles my spell checker, so rec'd for a nice name, and because I can.  

     

    The wisdom of my forebears ... Two wise people will never agree. Man begins in dust and ends in dust — meanwhile it's good to drink some vodka. A man studies until he's seventy and dies a fool.

    by Not A Bot on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 01:46:57 AM PST

    •  gee thanks... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RadGal70, Not A Bot, bfbenn
      You warred-on wimmenfolks can claim a victory of sorts -- a somewhat begrudged victory
      for your begrudged quasi-approval
      •  I apologize for my tone (0+ / 0-)

        Pandoras Box, I guess what I was trying to say is that it's possible for a person (an fairly conservative old geezer in this case) to acknowledge that the choice is a woman's, and hers alone, without the old geezer in question feeling all warm and cuddly about the act of abortion.  Does that make sense?

        Believe me, please, this is a victory, or a bit of progress for your side.  Thirty years ago, or 50 years ago, I would have agreed to abortion only in cases of rape, incest, or when the mother's life was endangered, and I would have expected that decision to be made by a physician.  Now, I'm willing to admit that it's permissible for emotional well being, and further, that the determination of what is good for her health is the woman's alone, as I said in the above post.  That is a considerable change in view.  Probably not as far as you'd like, but the me of back then would have argued long and hard with the me of today on this topic.

        Take what you can get.  I won't be around in another thirty years, so there's not much chance of further measurable movement (for that matter, probably not much chance of measurable brain activity in the next couple of hours -- calcification does wondrous things to neurons).  And, you know, what I agree to, or what I'm willing to admit is right or wrong, doesn't really matter.  It's the woman's decision no matter what I think, right?  And that's as is should be.

        I hope you're enjoying a good start to the week.

        The wisdom of my forebears ... Two wise people will never agree. Man begins in dust and ends in dust — meanwhile it's good to drink some vodka. A man studies until he's seventy and dies a fool.

        by Not A Bot on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 04:18:35 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  See what I am saying about a cultural default for (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pandoras Box

      the personal feeling regarding the dignified and moral choice of abortion?  Here it is even on this site.

      Me?  I don't like abortion.  It hurts to think about it.  I dislike every part of the process, and I hate..
      This is why choice is losing.  While choice may be acknowledged as a right...for now, culturally, most people's default felling is that it is shameful, disgusting and wrong.  This is what we need to concentrate upon if we expect reproductive freedom to prevail in the long run.
  •  I wonder if Cindrich (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pandoras Box, Themistoclea

    suffers from high blood pressure....or diabetes.....of high cholesterol.  I would also wonder if she dares to take medicine to control any.  I mean, didn't God afflict her with these condition?  Couldn't God make thathem go away?  AND if Cindrich takes medicine to control them, isn't she spitting in the eye of God?  Isn't SHE denying God's will?

    AND if she has any TWO of these conditions?  How more strongly does God have to speak!

    What an unGodly woman

  •  Simple question that never gets an (7+ / 0-)

    answer:  why does your religion trump mine?  

    My God says my life comes first.  I find your God hostile to life.  Does that mean I have a right to make laws that take away your right to believe what you believe and choose what you choose?  

    I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

    by I love OCD on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 04:15:48 AM PST

  •  Imagine if restrictions like these were imposed (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    milkbone, Pandoras Box, bige1030, maryru

    on the purchase of guns. Want to buy a handgun? Step right up for your transurethral ultrasound.

  •  No coffee yet (0+ / 0-)

    My mental question mark alarm was ringing off the hook for a moment when I misread the title to include:

    Festuspalooza.

    Why have a party celebrating Festus from Gunsmoke fame, sez my befuddled brain for a microsecond..

    Makes as much sense as the fetish-fetishists though.

    More.

    The Aggressively Ignorant Caucus is getting aggressively ignorant again.

    by Anthony Page aka SecondComing on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 05:42:16 AM PST

  •  Ghettoizing abortion services in clinics (6+ / 0-)

    Enabled many of the restrictions we're left with today. There is no medical reason why physicians and nurse practitioners can't provide 1st trimester abortions in their offices, just as they do with D&Cs.

    Of course by now it would be far too risky for practices in most places to provide abortion services in their offices, and many Catholic hospitals impose all sorts restrictions on ob/gyns as a condition of maintaining privileges. But what I'd like to know is why we ended up relegating abortion services to clinics while most other ob/gyn services are provided in the privacy of an office?

  •  One thing (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pandoras Box, varro

    I have never been able to understand: why do these people insist that their opinions give them the right to break our laws and commit violent acts--up to and including murder?

    Abortion is legal.

    Because they do not agree with that----they have the right to break the law?

    Quite the interesting mentality---and a pretty damned messed-up and criminally inclined--one---too.

    The Onion says----scholars have discovered---the Mayan word for "Apocalypse" in fact---translates more accurately as: "Time of pale obese gun monsters."

    by lyvwyr101 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 09:42:08 AM PST

    •  Because their religion trumps secular law. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lyvwyr101, bfbenn

      The same way that 19 radical Muslims went against the hadith that murdering one person is like murdering the human race.....by flying jets into the WTC, Pentagon, and the ground in rural Pennsylvania.

      9-11 changed everything? Well, Katrina changed it back.

      by varro on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 07:26:26 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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