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This is from last week, but well worth a replay:

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Comment Preferences

  •  no real surprise that there has been backlash (7+ / 0-)

    as it appears that only the most extreme among gun advocates get radio and tv time to air their views.  Unfortunately this radicalizes and polarizes the argument.  The first order of business would seem to be to get folks who actually represent gun owners air time instead of these gun manufacturers' shills who behave as if they are an astroturf operation  

    •  Does anyone know of a concise list of URLs that (0+ / 0-)

      basically ask for story leads, such as this, for media outlets -- kind of a voting system?  For instance, do people such as Rachel Maddow have a hot button on the front page of both blog and show that invites important story ideas along with their sources?  Make it easy - get the fodder down to where the sheep can reach.  

      Are there no major organizations who represent the significant majority of NRA members who are actually sane, and who have a stable of speakers who can put some sound and numbers in front of the people, and their representatives?  This is marketing 101 folks.  The only way to push back is to push back.  And right now, pushing back is a loud numbers game.

      •  asdf (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        shaharazade, Bisbonian
        Are there no major organizations who represent the significant majority of NRA members who are actually sane
        Disagree. Sanity and membership to that organization are mutually exclusive. Sane gun owners should be speaking out long and hard against the NRA - as much out of self interest as empathy and compassion.
        •  "Should" being the operative word. Some here do, (0+ / 0-)

          some basically support the NRA's position(s) without claiming to be (and perhaps not being) a member.

          It's dicey.

          202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

          by cany on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 04:49:57 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  ? (0+ / 0-)

      So you're saying the Head of the NRA, the ex President of the NRA and Sheriff Joe are not a very good cross-section of the Gun Owners and the Members of the NRA?

  •  There is no national gun registry. (6+ / 0-)

    People who argue for gun safety and those gun wingnuts know it. There is no national gun registry. In fact there is no registry to track guns from the manufacturers to the gun dealer. But so much of the general public don't know that.

    The NRA nonchalantly floats the idea of national loony registry. Medical privacy laws be damned. Subjective nature of loony evals be damned. But buying and owning a gun is such a clear object thing. But they fight tooth and nail any attempt to create a national gun owner registry.

    Folks, most people don't know that. There is no gun owner registry. We should repeatedly say it till all people know this there is no gun registry. We should suggest to the writers of TV shows like CSI to mention, "there is no gun registry" in plot lines.

    It is crazy. There are these farms that grow tomatoes and salad greens that mark every packet of spinach and tomato with serial numbers we are able to track a contaminated packet of salad greens to the very patch of the farm where it was grown and harvested. But there is no gun registry.

  •  Hunters and Sportsmen need an alternative to NRA. (8+ / 0-)

    The overwhelming majority of gun owners neither own semi-automatic AR-15s nor think the right to bear means unregulated ownership.
    The gun nuts have given people like me a bad name.
    What part of "well regulated" doesn't the NRA understand?

    "Your opponent can't talk when he has your fist in his mouth." - Bill Clinton

    by MethuenProgressive on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 03:23:34 PM PST

    •  McDonald v Chicago + DC v Heller (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      McDonald  v.Chicago


      Writing for the majority, Justice Alito held that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment incorporates the Second Amendment right recognized in Heller.[21] Writing a concurring opinion, Justice Thomas reached the same conclusion regarding the incorporation issue on different grounds: Privileges or Immunities Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.[22] The plurality decision also reaffirmed that certain firearms restrictions mentioned in District of Columbia v. Heller are assumed permissible and not directly dealt with in this case.[23] Such restrictions include those to "prohibit...the possession of firearms by felons or mentally ill" and "laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms" [2

      Supreme Court

      The defendants petitioned the United States Supreme Court to hear the case. The plaintiffs did not oppose but, in fact, welcomed the petition. The Supreme Court agreed to hear the case on November 20, 2007.[21] The court rephrased the question to be decided as follows:

          The petition for a writ of certiorari is granted limited to the following question: Whether the following provisions, D.C. Code §§ 7-2502.02(a)(4), 22–4504(a), and 7-2507.02, violate the Second Amendment rights of individuals who are not affiliated with any state-regulated militia, but who wish to keep handguns and other firearms for private use in their homes?

      This represented the first time since the 1939 case United States v. Miller that the Supreme Court had directly addressed the scope of the Second Amendment.[17]

      of Note in Heller
      (2) Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. Pp. 54–56.

      As the Elites Come Together to Rise Above to Find a Third Way to do Rude things to the 99%

      by JML9999 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 03:45:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  We actually have many (4+ / 0-)
      Maybe our most influential below
      The folks below are lefties with a lot of clout out west
      But without doubt the folks with the most money and the most lobbying experience and the ones that are the most effective in advocating for hunters are

      Below are the dirty dozen, the twelve orgs most apposed to hunting. When I see their names on any post on this web site the spit rises up in my mouth. They've done more to harm rural people and hunting than just about anyone I can imagine.

      I too only own bolt guns and a double barrel. I might make snide remarks about semi auto handguns or tupperware plastic guns but I fully support people in their wish to have them. The greatest danger to law abiding gun owners is suicide, and that's an issue they need to deal with themselves. For homicide you have a different demographic.

      The overwhelming number of gun victims are young, male, minority, and live in the center of a large city. I  value their lives,  and would support any effort to end the overwhelming toll on them and their families. They need a police system they can rely on, a way to make a good middle class wage no matter their education or prior convictions, and a general fair shake at life that they are denied by our society.

      How big is your personal carbon footprint?

      by ban nock on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 03:45:23 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Open thread stunner in Arizona: (8+ / 0-)
    Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer took advantage of her annual State of the State speech to deliver big news: that she plans to agree to a large expansion of the state’s Medicaid program as part of President Barack Obama’s health care overhaul. AZ Republic
    Somebody, wake me up. No, don't.

    stay together / learn the flowers / go light - Gary Snyder

    by Mother Mags on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 03:24:24 PM PST

    •  too much "business" to pass up... (5+ / 0-)

      From your link...

      The Republican governor’s decision...would bring the state an additional $7.9 billion in federal funds over four years to restore and expand the state’s health-care insurance program...She has personally met with hospital CEOs and business leaders who are urging full expansion of Medicaid.
      2 billion dollars was too much business to pass up for ideology's sake - at least to the big-money providers. I'm thinkin' that similar scenarios are working on other republican governors who want to turn down the expansion on ideological grounds.

      Thanks for postin' that, M...


    •  Perhaps she's been "spoken to" by the Doctors and (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Stude Dude, Mother Mags


      As the Elites Come Together to Rise Above to Find a Third Way to do Rude things to the 99%

      by JML9999 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 03:33:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Reminder: Ronald Reagan was shot... (11+ / 0-)

    ...while surrounded by the best trained armed guards in the history of the world.

    It's the guns.

    Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. -Abraham Lincoln

    by jexter on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 03:24:34 PM PST

  •  One of the best comments I read (8+ / 0-)

    from somewhere by someone (sorry, forgot who) about the NRA reaction to the Newtown massacre was:  What if, after the Jerry Sandusdky / Penn State scandal, a bunch of spokespeople from NAMBLA went on every TV show to argue against more laws to protect children from sexual predators?

    This shirt is dry clean only. Which means... it's dirty. -- Mitch Hedberg

    by Greasy Grant on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 03:28:31 PM PST

  •  Blackburn, Again with the Hammers (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jexter, shaharazade

    Tea Party Rep: Gun Regulation Won’t Work Because Hammers And Hatchets Exist

    On Sunday, Republican Rep. Marsha Blackburn (R-TN) denounced the recent push for anti-gun violence measures, blaming hatchets, hammers, video games, and “psychotropic drugs” for the nation’s homicide rate. Appearing on CNN’s State of the Union, Blackburn claimed that the conversation after the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre should focus on mental health instead of guns, because disturbed individuals could use “a hammer, a hatchet, a car”:

       BLACKBURN: We need to do a couple of things. Number one is to drill down on the mental health issue. Number two is to look at the psychiatric and psychotropic drugs, because that is many times linked to the individuals who carry out these crimes. They are also wanting to make certain that we begin to get in behind these video games. [...] The problem is it could be a hammer, a hatchet, a car.
    Anyone sufficiently training in hand to hand can disarm a hammer / hatchet wielding opponent .   Mjölnir not applicable to this discussion.

    The Conga Line of Crazy continues.

    As the Elites Come Together to Rise Above to Find a Third Way to do Rude things to the 99%

    by JML9999 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 03:32:26 PM PST

    •  And the crazy continues (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JML9999, slothlax

      The latest I heard from my window in wing-nut-land is that Dems want to ban and regulate knives, because they can be used to kill people, too.

      That's it.  Take a crazy idea that no one has suggested.  Say it's crazy.  Therefore, the rational, reasonable ideas that people actually do advocate are crazy, too.

      And ignore the fact that the only crazy in the area is you . . .

      In Washington, whenever anyone does something wrong, everyone else gets punished.

      by Noziglia on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 03:41:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Have lived in the US since 1999... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jexter, stevej

    but still don't really get the whole 'gun owning democracy' thing.

    Right now, there's a Whitehouse petition asking to ban semi-automatic weapons which is about to fizzle out tomorrow for lack of interest, while half a dozen versions of How dare you take our guns away! are heading to the president's desk.

    As a Brit, whenever I visit my parents I drive past Hungerford where back in the 80's a guy with a couple of semi-automatic rifles shot up a neighborhood.  A year later we banned them.

    The UK is not a huge country (only 2.5 Shanghai's) but we managed to find 750,000 signatures for a total ban on private ownership of hand guns.  Are there really not 25,000 people in the US willing to ask the president to take machine guns off the streets?

    •  There have been a ton of petitions... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shaharazade, eglantine

      ... on the issue, and the White House has responded to 32 of them here. What I find encouraging is that the petition that appeared soon after the shooting in Newtown passed the required 25,000 signature threshold only days after it was posted, and ended up receiving 197,073 signatures!

      Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. -Abraham Lincoln

      by jexter on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 04:07:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Good to hear (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        shaharazade, jexter

        The one I saw was also from very soon after the tragedy, but I guess got missed in the original response - right now the petition site is really, really lopsided.

        I've been mostly outside of the US for the last couple of years, so I'm not really up to speed with the current mood - would be, so so good if there's a real change in attitude right now.

  •  On a lighter note Glenn Beck is writing laws in IN (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Indiana GOP Lets Glenn Beck Set Legislative Agenda: Introduces Bill To Fight U.N. Conspiracy Theory

    You’d be forgiven for having not heard of Agenda 21. Developed at a summit in Brazil in 1992 with support from President George H.W. Bush, Agenda 21 is a series of non-binding UN recommendations for ensuring that economic growth does not undermine the environment. The agreement aims to encourage “international cooperation to accelerate sustainable development in developing countries” through voluntary actions by UN member-states. You can read the full, innocuous text here.

    But right-wing Republicans have somehow come to believe that Agenda 21 contains a secret, nefarious plot to destroy American life and society as we know it, birthing a cottage industry devoted to spreading misinformation about the UN proposal. The most recent evidence of this movement’s reach is a proposal by two Indiana lawmakers to ban the implementation of any Agenda 21-inspired initiatives in the state. The Republican state legislators, Rep. Tim Neese and Sen. Dennis Kruse, proposed laws prohibiting the implementation of Agenda-21 inside Indiana. Neese worried that the document — which has no legal power to reshape American law — was a “mandate” that threatened his freedom:


      I don’t see it as a battle with environmentalists, as long as people have the ability to choose. So when any type of special interest tries to — through a policy whether it be a legislative body or local or state official — to mandate that a specific type of material has to be used. That’s where I think the Agenda 21 policy is going beyond what is neutral.

    As the Elites Come Together to Rise Above to Find a Third Way to do Rude things to the 99%

    by JML9999 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 03:52:15 PM PST

  •  the most extreme (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slothlax, eglantine

    among gun advocates seem to be the only ones who are totally against any discussion of controlling guns. Everyone of the gun owners I've come across who refuse to even look at regulating and controlling guns use the same insane arguments against any control as those Colbert featured. They lose me completely with their insistence that semi automatic guns should be legal and that restrictions on clips are infringing on their right to protect themselves or indulge in their hobby of shooting at targets with military grade weaponry.  

    The most chilling to me is a idea of a data base of mentally ill people, instead of infringing on their sacred tight to own whatever gun they can lay their hands on. It's threatening all of our rights when unrestricted gun ownership trumps the lives and rights of everyone else especially people who are mentally ill. In a society this fearful and violent it's really hard to define who's mentally ill and whose sane enough to own a Bushmaster. Judging from the attitude of many of the gun ownership advocates I've run into I find them extreme and as Cobert said about teh crazy.....

    Armed, intimidating, belligerent, paranoid and loving their guns and shooting as a 'hobby' and their insistence that we all should be packing for self defense is extreme. Their is nothing sane about America's gun culture.  


  •  Still need T-shirts for a quilt! (0+ / 0-)

    For those who've not seen it already, I did a diary this morning to help get donations of old band T-shirts that'll be used to create a healing quilt for a friend of mine with very serious cancer.

    If you've got an old Grateful Dead shirt you don't wear any more, or one from any other band, sitting in a drawer, please send it along!

    Information, including an address to send the shirt, is in my diary, here.

    Thanks a lot!

    Please proceed, governor

    by Senor Unoball on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 03:58:24 PM PST

  •  Israel and Switzerland? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    How restrictive are the gun regulations there?

    I have a feeling that those two places aren't exactly the gun luggin' "shoot-opias" that a lot of Conservatives on Facebook and elsewhere are claiming that they are.....

    "If this Studebaker had anymore Atomic Space-Age Style, you'd have to be an astronaut with a geiger counter!"

    by Stude Dude on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 04:02:56 PM PST

    •  I can't speak for Switzerland (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Stude Dude

      I can speak to the situation in Israel, though.  There, it isn't easy to obtain a handgun, however you can if you show need (jewelers, bankers, anyone who regularly transports high value commodities).  As to long guns, there is no game hunting in Israel -- the various occupiers over the centuries pretty well obliterated most game animals.  Guns in Israel are not a sporting tool.

      However, although it is a bit difficult to obtain privately owned firearms, the government distributes an awful lot of military weapons to citizens for various reasons, and it's unusual to not see at least a couple of real assault weapons (not the lookalikes at debate in the States) wherever you go in the cities.  It's not only current military members who carry weapons in public, but also settlers and others in risk zones who are given weapons by the government.  Of course, almost every person who is issued a firearm is either active duty IDF or reserve, and has been well trained.

      It's a very different scenario than in the States.  In Israel, you can't buy a rifle at Walmart, yet a relatively high percentage of the populace is armed by the government -- including many teachers, college students, retail workers, farmers, and so on.  There is no Second Amendment, yet firearms are commonplace.  It is, as I noted above, an entirely different situation than in the U.S.  Israel has been either in a state of war or at risk of war for its entire modern existence.    

  •  Hannity on the radio today, workin' the crazy (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shaharazade, eglantine

    He had some insane woman guest on, both of them really obsessing that we don't have enough guns, that the answer is concealed carry so everyone is packing everywhere all the time.

    They played a tape of Diane Feinstein explaining why she got a gun for concealed carry and trained to use it - she was targeted by a terrorist group that tried to bomb her house once and later shot out windows in her house. This was back in the 1970s; she's since backed a number of gun control proposals. The right wingers are all over this as "gun grabber" hypocrisy - they just want the same rights as Feinstein. They're all talking it up, not just Hannity.

    And they do have a point - armed terrorists are out there right this minute waiting to target each and every one of us. Right? Right?

    His guest was ridiculing the idea of limiting magazine size - because sometimes 6 or 7 shots isn't enough. She talked up the story of a woman in Georgia who went upstairs to hide with her kids when an intruder broke into the house. She only shot him when he found them - and put 5 out of 6 rounds into him.

    Hannity's guest was outraged that the burglar managed to get out of the house and drive away. (He's now in the hospital in critical condition.)

    I think a point is being missed. Guns are no longer enough - it's time to go to hand grenades.

    "No special skill, no standard attitude, no technology, and no organization - no matter how valuable - can safely replace thought itself."

    by xaxnar on Mon Jan 14, 2013 at 04:15:51 PM PST

  •  NRA's arguement that Newtown grief should not be (0+ / 0-)

    considered since it is "emotional" is frightening.  If discussion of  killing little children isn't allowed because of emotion, what kind of hearrless monsters are there in the NRA?

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