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Rep. John Barrow (D-GA-12) is proud of his guns.

Well, good for him! I doubt very much whether he's bothering anyone with those dusty old pea-shooters. And if they've got sentimental value to him, well, what's it to me? Right?

Of course, when you're a member of Congress, those antiques can be your meal ticket, since you can take 'em out and wave 'em around once every couple of years, and—if you're willing to say the right magic words—convert 'em into NRA endorsements and cold, hard cash.

And the crowd loves it!

But let's face it. The NRA's real constituency is gun manufacturers. And the people who made Barrow's guns have been dead and buried for decades. It doesn't appear that anyone's sold Barrow a firearm since Jesus was in short pants. So he's not doing them any favors with the gun ownership.

No, where Barrow is useful is in holding the door open for them to push more weapons out. And that he has to do by voting to safeguard the manufacture of some very, very different weapons than the ones he's got in his commercial.

Now, I don't know if you've run into the same thing I have out there in the wide world of gun discussion, but maybe you're familiar with the kind of people who get all huffy and indignant when you inaccurately label things "guns" when they're really "firearms." (Why they sell them at "gun shops," I'm still not sure. But of course, it seems like nobody really wants to press a point with any of these folks, if you know what I mean.) And God help you if you try to talk policy after incorrectly identifying a "magazine" as a "clip!" You'll quickly find yourself deemed unqualified to participate in our grand "national conversation."

And yet, here we find Good Ol' John Barrow, a gun man from way back apparently (and yes, he says "guns"), a-frettin' that somebody might be a-comin' for to take his guns away. And he's not havin' any of that! "These are my guns now—and ain’t nobody gonna take ‘em away.” Only thing is, even most elitist liberal weenie gun wimps know the difference between the kinds of firearms some say they want to clamp down on, and the hoary old specimens Barrow is seen fingering. Why hell, son! Those ol' girls ain't even semi-automatic!

But if you're willing to wave a couple ancient guns around and say the magic words—especially while holding a seat in Congress, that is—you're considered a member of the club and I guess it just doesn't matter if you don't get the terms quite right. As long as you keep letting them back up the Brink's truck and load it up with suckers' cash every time they hit the panic button, they'll keep cutting checks.

Point is, though, that Barrow is cashing in on the line-blurring paranoia that is the NRA's stock in trade, and now is really a lousy time to be making common cause with those guys. Especially if all you've really got an interest in is a couple of sentimental old antiques, and mass marketing sliding stock AR-15s and 100 round magazines is the farthest thing from your mind.

In truth, they're no more interested in you and your old guns than you are in what they're selling. At least, not in what they're really selling. It's time to throw the firearms industry association and their cash overboard, and find ways to make common cause with people who like guns, but ain't crazy.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:00 AM PST.

Also republished by Repeal or Amend the Second Amendment (RASA), Shut Down the NRA, and Kos Georgia.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Brilliant observations (14+ / 0-)

    I think I might have to steal them for personal use.

  •  Excellent point. (7+ / 0-)

    Some non crazy gun aficionados should start an NRA competition, maybe ARRO: American Rifles Responsible Owners:-)
    Or ARA, American Rifle Association

    He who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.

    by Sophie Amrain on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:06:45 AM PST

  •  Our culture has been "militarized", wanting (7+ / 0-)

    to own the latest and greatest military style weapons is the logical departure point for a sizable number of civilian gun owners. The NRA may amp paranoia, but our culture has been saturated for years with military adventurism and the notion that law enforcement is incapable of protecting you from imminent harm,  best protect yourself with your own weapon. Dirty Harry may have had a revolver, but I've had online discussions w people who genuinely think they need a assault rifle to protect family and property. It's scary out there.

    Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther

    by the fan man on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:07:19 AM PST

    •  No it hasn't. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      allensl, luckydog, judyms9

      That's the fallacy of the NRA's argument and the irrational fear of gun owners in the political arena.  The paramilitary nuts are a small but vocal part of the population.  The NRA is selling and anarchistic Hobbesian "dream" to America and the reality is that most people aren't buying it.  Most people don't want shoot outs at the OK corral taking place when they go on their lunch break.

      The President of the NRA whining about receiving death threats after Wayne LaPierre said that the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is another guy with a gun was the hight of comedy, really.  Even the assholes pushing this anti-democratic conflict resolution trash don't like the idea of it when it really comes down to it.  These people are insecure wimps who need to be told to STFU.

  •  I don't know much about cars either.. (17+ / 0-)

    Did you know that Ford Motor Co. should actually be Ford Engine Co.? You don't care, right?

    Still, vehicle safety is something that most people support, and it has saved a lot of lives.

    This Rover crossed over.. Willie Nelson, written by Dorothy Fields

    by Karl Rover on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:08:14 AM PST

  •  I've never needed 30 shots (12+ / 0-)

    I've taken hunter safety.
    I've fired a weapon.
    Never in my life did I need 30 shots to hit any target.
    Only someone who shouldn't have a gun is such a terrible shot that it takes them 30 rounds to hit something.   Or a psychopath.

    Only the criminals will have guns.  Sure, criminals will have a 30 round clip.   But, Mr. Barrow, I know you're probably a pretty good shot.   So you should only need 1 to disarm a psychopath.

    I'm counting on all the NRA loons to wake up to reality: either you are all lousy freaking shots, your compensating for a small penis, or your a loon.   Because outside of a shooting range, there is NO reason in the world you need 30 shots for anything.


    Oh, and BTW, a real sportsman hunts deer with a bow.  Give it a try.

    Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

    by Chris Reeves on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:09:53 AM PST

    •  I do both (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      and bow hunting isn't for everyone. My husband and I used to bow hunt together until he injured his shoulder. We enjoyed it very much, but he just can't pull what he used to, or aim steady enough anymore. Now I bow hunt on my own, but we can still rifle hunt together.

      Bow hunting, in my opinion, also requires more time and effort to gain proficiency than rifle hunting does, although both require time and effort long before you hit the woods. Again, not everyone has the time to do it properly.

      I know a few meat hunters who are good enough to rely solely on their bows, but most depend on the rifle to make sure the freezer is full.

      I do love bow hunting, though. And I second encouraging those interested in hunting to give it a try, if they are able.

      Almost 10 year old Daughter: "Boys are pretty good, but daughters have sentimental value." Me: "I don't think that phrase means what you think it does." Daughter: "None of them do, Mom. More's the pity. Words have to be flexible in today's world."

      by left rev on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:31:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Will sound stupid, but there is a zen component (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        judyms9, luckydog, Mr Stagger Lee

        To bow hunting.   You're right, it takes a lot more time and it's far more likely that you will come back with nothing than hunting with a rifle.  I've seen a lot of people assume they can fire an arrow with serious accuracy much farther distances than they can.

        But the still and the quiet of it puts it in teh same reason why I love going fishing even if I catch nothing.

        It's hard to explain, but there it is.

        Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

        by Chris Reeves on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:34:51 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I went bow hunting a few times... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tmservo433 the '80s with a laminated bow I made myself and arrows I fletched myself. But I never managed to take a deer. I suppose my ancestors looked down at me from wherever they reside and shook their heads: "tsk-tsk."

        Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 11:00:18 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Some people need high capacity magazines.... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Karl Rover

      to commit suicide

      As you will note, these folks came close, but didn't quite succeed in quite a few cases.

      Quick...get their names on the national registry....

      Free markets would be a great idea, if markets were actually free.

      by dweb8231 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 09:09:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Police-oriented publications (0+ / 0-)

      are full of stories of dangerous people who stayed dangerous after having multiple small holes in their bodies.

      In the infamous Miami shootout, one of bad guys was still shooting at FBI agents until the 12th time he was shot. He was going to die at the hospital eventually but hadn't collapsed yet.

      I stop short of drawing conclusions. The FBI shootout was an outlier, police periodicals are funded by advertisers who sell high-capacity weapons, and someone who's not wedded to guns might reasonably conclude that if they're so unreliable in stopping bad guys then they're not worth the risks.

      My point is only that the case for higher capacities is not necessarily guano-psychotic.

  •  Neither "guns" nor "firearms" are mentioned (6+ / 0-)

    in the 2nd Amendment.  Just "arms" and no body is talking about people's arms being taken away.  People can keep their arms, hands, fingers - that's no problem, at all.

    Just sayin'.

  •  The Barrow ad is beyond sick. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aunt Pat, luckydog, Bisbonian, Karl Rover

    Complete unreconstructed ignorance.

    What is truth? -- Pontius Pilate

    by commonmass on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:11:23 AM PST

  •  If cash is the lifeblood of politics (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    laurnj, Aunt Pat, Hillbilly Dem it seems to be, then nothing is going to change any time soon.

    Barrow raised over $2.5mil to stave off his Republican challenger. Barrow had been expected to have trouble in his redrawn district, that went from supporting Obama 55% in 2008 to less than 40% in 2012. Instead Barrow won fairly easily by over 7%.

    So, for many of these conservadems, guns are their lifeline to re-election. Which means they're not going to give them up.

  •  A "gun" is.... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aunt Pat, allensl, luckydog, Karl Rover

    an artillery piece with a high muzzle velocity and fires on a flat trajectory. As opposed to a "howitzer" which has a high muzzle velocity and a high trajectory, or a "mortar" which has a low muzzle velocity and a high trajectory.

    I'll bet more that one NRA member doesn't know that. Heh.

  •  National Firearms Association, NRA seems to omit (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aunt Pat, Karl Rover

    handguns (with or without bayonets or grenade launchers attached).

    If you can't explain it in an elevator, it isn't real!--KagroX

    •  If that word matters to you (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dogs are fuzzy

      The Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership and the Pink Pistols solve the problem for you.  They aren't wimpy moderates like the NRA, either.

      And, with all respect, if you really really want a grenade launcher for some reason, well, they build them as separate units, too.

      In Massachusetts, "Firearm" refers exclusively to pistols and revolvers, at least in one part of MGL, the part that until it was fixed set a minimum standard for jams -- the weapon was required to jam a certain fraction of the time.

      We can have change for the better.

      by phillies on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:26:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Words matter to sophisticates who understand these (0+ / 0-)

        issues. Bayonets and grenade launchers are not allowed
        on assault rifles per se, but nobody said anything about pistols or blunderbuses or arquebuses either.

        I am concerned about  your lack of sophistication on these weighty matters. (Schnark)


  •  Random drug testing for gun permit holders (8+ / 0-)

    just might be in order.

  •  If you think (0+ / 0-)

    that people arguing for their interpretation of the second amendment are doing it for PAC money, not for the voters in their district, you may be in for a bit of a surprise come election time.

    Also, mocking older people for not buying new toys, rather than keeping older ones that still work well, like my 13-year-old and in fine running condition car, is also not likely to win you votes.

    Of course, some of us think that appropriate accommodations for the physically differently gifted are a good thing.  That's wheel chair ramps for the disabled.  Knurls in the ramps so that the blind can tell they are walking into the street.  Adjustable steering wheels and seats in our cars.  And, yes. adjustable stocks on guns for people with different reaches.  

    My distinct impression is that this country is not doing too well because there are an increasing series of issues on which both sides think that the other side is not only crazy but down right dangerous.

    We can have change for the better.

    by phillies on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:16:51 AM PST

  •  In an otherwise informative rec list diary, (15+ / 0-)

    kossacks who don't know the fine points of guns are castigated for their "stunning ignorance."  Now I think it's useful to know something about subjects that we take a stand on, but not everyone who bemoans the warming of the planet is a climate scientist; not everyone who worries about the privatization of public schools has a Masters degree in education; not everyone who worries about limits placed on abortion rights is a woman; not everyone who bemoans the grip insurance companies have on people who need healthcare are trained doctors.  That doesn't make them ignorant--they can see the results of bad policies on their fellow human beings, and want them changed.
    The anger and emotions around the topic of limits on gun sales makes it almost impossible to have a useful and rational discussion of the policies we might adopt that would serve everyone best.

    "Why reasonable people go stark raving mad when anything involving a Negro comes up, is something I don’t pretend to understand." ~ Atticus Finch, "To Kill a Mockingbird"

    by SottoVoce on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:18:14 AM PST

    •  Tell me about it (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rodentrancher, Karl Rover

      My personal facepalm is some of our fellow community members insisting that registration would inevitably lead to confiscation. I think it's one of those "Then a miracle occurs" circumstances...or something.

      When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative. --Martin Luther King Jr.

      by Egalitare on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:43:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I concur. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SottoVoce, Dogs are fuzzy, KenBee

      Despite that inflammatory title, there was useful material in the body and the following discussion.  While expertise is not required, I believe that some knowledge of the basic mechanics of the topic is important, though. When regulation is finally crafted and proffered, it will be useful in recognizing if the legislation will be effective or merely a sop.

      As for the heightened emotions, while I have empathy for them for a variety of reasons, I also know from experience that too much emotion is an impediment in productive argument, whereas pointed use of controlled emotion is powerful.  Legislators and jurists, who are the parties holding the key to our predicament, will deal more with facts than feelings.  Having had to argue before the courts many times on the emotional matter of child abuse, this was a lesson I learned early on.  My outrage on behalf of the victim was initially a stumbling block for me.  I still feel all that outrage so I won't pretend it is always easy, but it is necessary to control those powerful emotions to effect the resolution desired.

      You are my brother, my sister.

      by RoCali on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 09:00:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Full Metal Jacket/Hollow Point/Armor Piercing (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Where I really draw the line is where people start tossing around harebrained ideas about banning certain bullets where they clearly have never even seen a bullet. But that doesn't stop them from thinking that they can draw really fine distinctions legislatively about stuff they know nothing about.

      There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

      by bernardpliers on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 09:15:53 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I love the stunning good sense of Kossacks... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    allensl, Aunt Pat, Bisbonian, judyms9 the morning.


  •  Those Old Guns And The Surplus Ammo They Shoot (5+ / 0-)

    I have an old Mauser (first issued in 1898) and maybe 1,500 rounds of 8 mm surplus ammo for it. But On noes!, it's imported, and the ammo is full metal jacket (not the same as "armor piercing", and many people would say I own "too many" bullets which I bought when there was a lot of  cheap 40 year old surplus on the market for 75% less than the cost of new rounds.

    Start messing with the simple fun of shooting relics like this, and there will be considerable political backlash.

    There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

    by bernardpliers on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:24:35 AM PST

  •  None of the guns that Rep. Barrow showed (4+ / 0-)

    us in his paranoid grandstanding would be outlawed anyway...

    The most perfect political community is one in which the middle class is in control, and outnumbers both of the other classes. Aristotle

    by progresso on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:24:36 AM PST

  •  And he's a Democrat. n/t (0+ / 0-)

    Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

    by mahakali overdrive on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:29:22 AM PST

  •  If you are a hunter, the NRA is your enemy (19+ / 0-)
    It's time to throw the firearms industry association and their cash overboard, and find ways to make common cause with people who like guns, but ain't crazy.

    The NRA has a track record of supporting candidates who destroy the natural resources needed for wildlife. They have also pushed policies that privatize publicly owned lands, eliminating access for hunting (except for the well-heeled and well connected).

    And their obstructionist, absolutist positions on gun regulations may just bring closer the time when civilian possession of firearms is completely banned.

  •  Actually, that bolt action rifle would be banned.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    under Feinsteins law it has more than one military're correct about the revolver...

  •  So why can't the resident RkBAers here at dkos (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, luckydog, Bisbonian, Miggles, KayCeSF

    come up with something?

    They see all the flaws with what everyone says, but never offer their own proposal.  

    They never come unglued when James Yeager, Turd Nugget, the Supreme Sheriff, or the NRA misrepresents them. They seem real quiet about that.  

    But the RkBAre rip anyone posting on dkos a new one for even suggesting that maybe it would be a good idea regulate people who want to keep enough guns and ammo to mow down the neighborhood in 3 or 4 minutes.

    I wish gun owners would keep their guns, but they come crying to me if the bad guys take it away from them.

    by 88kathy on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:34:45 AM PST

    •  I've wondered the same sorta things... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      ...there doesn't seem to be much inclination among RKBAers here to lead on the issue.


    •  Here's one (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      luckydog, denig

      The President's proposal actually is a very decent starting point, but it has a few weaknesses.

      First, "military-style assault weapon" is both vague, and has too many potential loopholes. Here's what you to do instead: ban centerfire semi-automatic rifles. "Centerfire semi-automatic rifle" is a term with a very precise, clear definition, unlike "assault weapon".

      This ban would capture everything that people mean when they say "assault rifle", and a good deal besides. Unfortunately, that includes some rifles traditionally viewed as sporting weapons, and a certain number of collectible old military relics like M-1 Garands. But I think some "collateral damage" is worth it for the sake of a clear and unambiguous law. Perhaps those who obtain C&R licenses from the ATF could be allowed to keep semi-automatic weapons that were over 50 years old.

      Second, ban detachable magazines for handguns with a capacity of greater than 10 rounds - actually, that's already in the President's proposal, but only applies to new manufacture, not existing units.

      Third, apply these bans to existing items, not just new manufacture, but buy back what's been banned, at fair market value. This is what the Aussies did when they banned semi-automatic rifles. You can't realistically expect people to be happy about surrendering property without fair compensation. You might even run into some (non-second Amendment) constitutional issues if you try that.

      With those changes, I think the President's proposals address things nicely.

      As far as you last comment, I see no need to regulate the number of firearms a person owns, or the amount of ammo she/he uses. Apparently neither did the President.

      •  a fellow kossack has a petition up for a buy back. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Sign his petition urging President Obama to create a firearm or magazine buy-back program related to any effort to restrict sales of same.

        But it took me a month of begging to get 30 signatures on mine, because it wasn't perfect, it wouldn't do any good, because the marijuana petition failed to legalize marijuana, nobody writes serious petitions, they made a joke of President Obama's petition page  -- a million reasons why people just can't be bothered.

        I was so glad to hear they are firing up OFA because dKos is not a movement.  We can't field a couple of hundred signatures on a freaking petition.  Talk about dry vocal chords.

        I wish gun owners would keep their guns, but they come crying to me if the bad guys take it away from them.

        by 88kathy on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 03:35:07 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  So why not write up a petition and get people to (0+ / 0-)

        sign it.  

        I mean if you are going to criticize then just walk away all smug.  It doesn't really do anything but make everyone angry and wastes everyone's energy and time.  

        See if they are wrong they would have figured it out themselves without your 'help'.  Now they are wrong and mad and that just isn't productive.  

        Better you should have made your own stand, then people could sign on to what you present, than to kick the slats from under everyone who is working for solution.

        You have your criticism all figured out and nicely worded.  Where was your petition the month they were working on these proposals?  Seems like you weren't offering any 'help' then, only when someone stands up with a proposal, then you 'help'.

        I wish gun owners would keep their guns, but they come crying to me if the bad guys take it away from them.

        by 88kathy on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 03:47:25 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Actually (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      some of are critical of the far right folks.  However, we tend to do it in places where far right folks read.

      We can have change for the better.

      by phillies on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 10:12:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You could always crow about your work here. (0+ / 0-)

        People like to hear that kind of stuff instead of constant criticism, name calling, and general know-it-all troll behavior.  At least that's what I got from many tag teams I have interacted with in the dKos gun control arena.

        Many people post stuff here they have also posted in other places.

        I wish gun owners would keep their guns, but they come crying to me if the bad guys take it away from them.

        by 88kathy on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 03:38:43 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  John "Wheel" Barrow full of NRA cash nt (0+ / 0-)

    I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

    by JML9999 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:36:37 AM PST

  •  more guns (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Should we assume that all people not labelled a criminal or insane are not criminals and/or insane.  If everyone not in an asylum, or prison, gets assault weapons, more soon to be sick and nefarious  people will be armed and dangerous.
    BTW--shouldn't there be armed guards at libraries--children's camps, playgrounds, Chucky Cheese, etc?  These nuts need to be ridiculed, not debated.  They need to be treated for insanity.  "1984" was mild compared to present day misuse of language.

    Apres Bush, le deluge.

    by melvynny on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:37:03 AM PST

    •  Hoarders (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Hoarding is a diagnosed mental disability.

      Hoarding tons of weaponry could be considered signs of anxiety, phobias and all the key traits of that diagnosis.

      Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

      by Chris Reeves on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 08:45:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Confusing hoarding with collecting (0+ / 0-)

        is going to cost you the votes of every stamp, coin, etc collector in the United States.  It is fairly easy to tell the difference.  Collectors take care of their collections.  Hoarders have three feet of rags on the floor in case they need a rag.

        We can have change for the better.

        by phillies on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 10:11:31 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not at all (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Karl Rover

          There is a huge difference between the two.  If you have a collection, then that's fine.

          If you have a bomb shelter full of weapons and tens of thousands of rounds of ammo, you are a hoarder.   (see: St. Marys, Koresh types and a lot of the "Doomsday Preppers", in fact, I'd argue Doomsday Prepping is a mental condition)

          Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

          by Chris Reeves on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 10:12:38 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  This. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    judyms9, RadGal70, Karl Rover, Miggles
    No, where Barrow is useful is in holding the door open for them to push more weapons out.
    No one. Is coming. To take. Your fucking guns.

    This ridiculous notion that "the guvmint" is should be laughed at and, ahem, shot down at every opportunity. I suspect that most of the NRA and its GOP lackeys damn well know this, but the paranoid fever dream they feed -- the most recent version being Obama's hordes of UN mercenaries repelling out of their black helicopters and forcibly wrenching away your hunting rifle, or something like that -- is what has always poisoned discussion about guns in America.

    People like Barrow know this, and ridiculous and cynical displays like that in the video above should be routinely ripped to shreds as propping up gun manufacturers and shilling to keep weapons of war - not of home protection or hunting - in our communities. Sickening.

    •  You have a basic problem with your argument (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dogs are fuzzy, glitterlust

      It is not credible.

      Try searching out "California" and "SKS".  People came and took.

      You are welcome to argue it is a good idea, or not, but your claim is historically weak.

      We can have change for the better.

      by phillies on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 10:09:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I've searched California and SKS (0+ / 0-)

        I've found a lot of confusion and angst regarding the implementation of Roberti-Roos in California, but I haven't found anything about guns being "taken" away. Please supply sources for your claims; I would be happy to learn.

        My point and my argument is that people like Barrow are arguing that "we" are trying to take away hunting rifles, small arms, et al. Such claims are false and insane beyond comment.
        Anyone on the left arguing for gun control knows that the genie is out of the bottle to an extent.  What we want is dialogue.  

  •  NRA Board includes some Congress-folk (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rodentrancher, Karl Rover

    Interesting to review this list. Includes Grover Norquist, Ted Nugent, Tom Selleck, Larry Craig, John Bolton, Chuck Norris, Oliver North, etc

  •  Bait and switch (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Over the Edge, Karl Rover, KayCeSF

    There's a name for that kinda thing.  The bluster's easier if you've not been shot, nor lost someone you love to a bullet.

    If gun's make you safer, the ol' US of A would be one of the safest areas in the world.  It definitely didn't work out that way for Nancy Lanza.

    What do we make of the contrast between heroic teachers who stand up to a gunman and craven, feckless politicians who won’t stand up to the N.R.A.? -- Nicholas Kristof, NYT --

    by Land of Enchantment on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 09:06:16 AM PST

  •  While Barrow's original ad was full of BS, (0+ / 0-)

    I found that Gun Violence ad rather sickening. Yeah, his ad propagated the stupid "Liberals wanna take your harmless old guns away!!1!!!" myth, but that response ad took his words out of context. Way to leave out the "stop a lynching" and "keep us safe" parts.

    British guy with a big interest in US politics; -1.88, -4.05. A liberal, a moderate and a conservative walk into a bar. The bartender says "Hey Mitt".

    by General Goose on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 09:07:41 AM PST

  •  John Barrow-Democrat (0+ / 0-)


    I'm sure there are some very good samples of NRA hugging dems but this guy is a dino through and through.  Just in case anyone wants to use him as an example of a liberal against gun control.
    That he would appear in this embarrassing NRA ass kissing video is no surprise.

    Also, the video that the one in this diary uses was made in Oct. 2012 for his re-election campaign, before Sandy Hook happened.


  •  I don't want to take anyone's guns (4+ / 0-)

    Own as many as you want, go hunting, go target shooting, hell, shoot those home invasion gangs I keep hearing about, shoot up your house for fun - I don't care.

    But I don't want to see (or in the case of concealed carry, not see) your guns in the mall or the movie theater or walking thru my neighborhood or in schools.  And 'responsible gun owners' have pulled out their guns and/or left them behind in all those places in the last month.  Just in the state where I live.

    You have the right to own a gun; I have the right to not have to deal with your hobby or obsession or love affair with guns when I am in the public arena.

  •  Cal. Republicans seem as gun obsessed as southern (0+ / 0-)

    "They are used to defend our property and our families and our faith and our freedom, and they are absolutely essential to living the way God intended for us to live."

     -- California Rep. Tim Donnelly (R), talking about guns on The Bottom Line.

    I imagine his Jesus is the Stephen Colbert one (with a gun),or maybe the South Park one where it was no more mister nice guy.

    "They will not collect a ransom in exchange for not crashing the American economy. The full faith and credit of the United States of America is not a bargaining chip."

    by TofG on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 09:24:30 AM PST

  •  The NRA's real constituency is gun manufacturers. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Karl Rover


    “The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius

    by LamontCranston on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 09:52:32 AM PST

  •  The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun... (0+ / 0-) a good guy with a gun.

    Now that's a full throated endorsement of Hollywood, if I ever heard one. Wayne Lapierre obviously grew up watching John Wayne movies. Now, let's all ride off into the sunset together.

    ego sum ergo ego eram

    by glb3 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 09:54:59 AM PST

  •  This the first time I heard the NRA state (0+ / 0-)

    "It's the guys with the guns who make the laws."  Clearly the NRA is an evil anti-democratic movement dedicated to destroying America.  Why isn't the government protecting Americans from these evil people?  

  •  Not all are "Parmilitary Nuts" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dogs are fuzzy, KenBee

    Ducks Unlimited, for example, is a good organization.  I realize that DU does not promote firearms as their central mission, rather, they are interested in promoting hunting access, water fowl habitat and safe shooting sports.  I'm not sure how much they are interlinked with the NRA.  In my limited dealings with DU, they are about access, safe hunting and conservation.

    I don't like the actions and general crassness of the NRA's political arm.  The NRA does use its pro-gun rating system to promote its preferred candidates.  In the last Montana senate race, Tester and Rehberg had virtually the same stance on gun control but Rehberg got the higher rating from NRA, and (probably not coincidentally) is also a republican.  NRA and gun manufacturers are in bed with each other.

    However, I know several individuals who are NRA members and they are good people and not "paramilitary nuts."  I have taken a couple of NRA shooting safety classes and have found them to be professional, focused on safety and promotion of shooting sports, and absent of political messages.  This is actually the larger component of the NRA, but it doesn't receive the coverage and doesn't have the voice that the political arm does.

    Also, keep in mind that progressive organizations like ACLU, Sierra Club, and the active LGBT rights organizations are often perceived as being extreme by those who lean right.

    A hungry man is an angry man. (Bob Marley)

    by montanamatt on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 10:19:20 AM PST

    •  The ACLU, Sirra Club and LGBT organizations (0+ / 0-)

      do not arm their members and advocate that guys with guns make the laws.  A few nice guys in the  NRA does not white wash the organization no more than one or two nice guys in any other criminal cabal exonerates the entire organization.  

      •  Thanks for your response. (0+ / 0-)

        You are correct, ACLU, Sierra Club and LGBT organizations do not actively promote gun causes.   My comment was more aimed at the perception of these organizations by many on the right.

        But, if I read your response correct, it seems that you imply the NRA arms people and advocates that only guys with guns make laws?  I think that this is not true.  The NRA represents gun owners but does not arm them and the NRA advocates that gun owners have a voice when those laws are made, not that gun ownership is somehow necessary for law making.  If I misinterpreted your comment.  My apologies.

        Your comparison of the NRA to a criminal cabal is wrong.   As far as I understand they act within the framework of the law.  Also, the NRA is a member-populated organization and is more than one or two nice guys.  Wiki and NRA website reports the membership at 4.3 million, could be inflated but its probably safe to say that they have a lot of members.   I'm not a member and I'm not advocating on  behalf of NRA, I live in a western state and I have friends who are members.  They are honest, responsible people who (I think) are poorly represented by the leaders of the NRA.

        I've asked my friends the question:  "why don't NRA members demand better from their leadership?"  I haven't really received a solid answer but do sense frustration.  I think the members stick with the leadership simply because they don't feel like there is anywhere else to go.  

        A hungry man is an angry man. (Bob Marley)

        by montanamatt on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 11:38:33 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I would suggest that any other org. other than NRA (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    would only be infiltrated by the "crazies."  Ya think?

    I hate guns, period, so I can't add a thing that would be positive for the gun owners on this site, but I'll say this:  This Congressman galls me to the point of tears.  He certainly doesn't represent me, yet he and others like him attend the floor of the Congress, pretending to represent ME and the others like me who want this horse chit to stop.  

    Your point that they actually represent the gun industry is well understood by most here.  But I do not believe, as suggested by many in this thread, that other organizations would not be infiltrated by the crazies, even as they would be set up for gun owners who aren't "paramilitary nuts" to gather so they can proudly waive their guns in the air.  

    I know someone close to me who has a vault FULL of guns of all types, and recently purchased 1 more semi-automatic and 1 more military style assault weapon, with all the clips, etc. His wife now packs a concealed hand gun in her purse. WHY? They are both "good people" but when you talk to them about the future of this country, even after having voted for Obama, they both spew out the same CRAZY chit that this Congressman spews out in this video.  You see, they NEED their guns to fight the crazies in the future who... NEED their guns. What's the difference?  Well...Maybe the difference is their vault that protects anyone else from getting those guns.  Of course, these were the same people who were made out to be fools when they were frantic about Y2K and are now left with 3 generators and a garage FULL of old food and everything else they thought they would need to survive Y2K, so maybe that gun vault full of guns they need for the future, will just be another left-over huge symbol of their own idiocy.  Oh, and while they try to convince me that the future of gun fighting "the crazies" is real, they are also trying to convince me that they are just "gun collectors, nothing more."

    BTW.. these "good people" confessed to me they only purchased the huge vault after their nephew, 9 years of age, almost shot himself and the bullet went through his bedroom to their bedroom and hit their bed pillow where their sleeping heads were --- ear-ly in the morning. Close call. Could have been too late for someone to finally get that vault?

    How about instead of collecting more guns, we collect our sanity for our children, and together provide safe harbor at schools or anywhere else by passing these proposals offered by our President and Vice-President, and continue to work harder on changing the hearts and minds of even the "good people" who have this obsession with guns? Sadly, I actually believe that legislation is more possible to pass rather than the latter suggestion that we can ever change hearts and minds of gun people who will NEVER give up their guns.

    I am incapable of understanding gun obsession.

    I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

    by KayCeSF on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 11:19:13 AM PST

  •  Anyone going to point out the obvious? (0+ / 0-)

    This ad is disgusting.  Moreso than the NRA ad about Obama's kids.  The direct implication is that John Barrow murdered those poor kids in Sandy Hook.  I'm ashamed that this was posted at DailyKos.

    Not, I have no love for the NRA.  I go out of my way to say that the NRA is an industry front group that protects the rights of psychopaths to butcher 20 innocent children without the burdensome gubmit regulation of having to reload.

    That said, this ad is not meant to change John Barrow's mind.  How could being so objectively offensive possibly accomplish that end?  The point of this ad is to grab attention not for the debate about guns, but for CSGV.  It's disgusting, and we should have no part in it.  Much less celebrate it.

  •  Please give John Barrow a break! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I've lived in Georgia for 30+ years and Barrow is the only Dem I know who can get elected in a rural Georgia district. Whatever his faults, his competitors would have been far worse members of Congress. Be grateful that Barrow has kept a real nutjob out of the House.

  •  Non-crazy ones get less press (0+ / 0-)

    A recurring complaint I see from gun activists is that when they hold a rally with a hundred people in business suits and one drooling idiot in camo, it's the idiot who becomes their representative on the six o'clock news.

    For years now their organizing materials have been saying in effect "For FSM's sake don't dress like an asshole when you come to our demonstration!".

    Who's going to get ratings by having a sensible gun-rights advocate on their show?

    Then the crazy ones make themselves way, way too available.

  •  We're here, I swear (0+ / 0-)

    This is an incredibly frustrating time to be a Liberal gun owner, believe me.

    I own several guns, and I really enjoy going shooting. But I also absolutely support stronger legislation for gun control. Ten round magazine limit? Bring it on, I'm fine with that, I really don't need more than ten rounds anyway. Licensing? Sure! It should be at least as hard to buy a gun as it is to get a driver license. Safety requirements? Absolutely, common sense. When Obama announced his 23 executive orders, I read through all of them carefully, and every one seemed like a good idea to me.

    At the same time, every single time a right-wing gun nut opens his mouth, I just want to bury my face in my palms and hide. These guys, the paranoid lunatics who are ABSOLUTELY SURE jack-booted thugs are coming for their guns, they're nuts. We know that. They do not speak for me, as a gun owner, as a self-admitted "gun enthusiast". They're not people I would want to hang out with. They're people I would avoid at the gun range.

    All that said, right now I'm also feeling very defensive because the right-wing gun-nuttery has caused some reactionary responses from the left. I don't want to be lumped in with those guys, I'm not like them. I just want to take my guns out to the range every few months and enjoy an afternoon of target practice without my friends assuming that I want to overthrow the government. Honest, I'm just this normal, boring guy!

  •  He's from GA. (0+ / 0-)

    'Nuff said.

    And once again I get to apologize for the state in which I reluctantly reside.

    The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

    by irishwitch on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 09:33:21 PM PST

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