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A recent poll has come out of Fairleigh Dickenson stating that a majority of Americans believe in one or more of four supposed conspiracies. I suspect a lot of Kossacks believe the same things I do about two of them. How many of us would have said "yes" to those on the poll? Follow me below the squiggly......

I haven't been able to confirm the exact wording of the poll questions, but the media is reporting it something like this:
1 - belief that Bush supporters committed voter fraud in 2004
2 - belief that Bush knew about 9/11
3 - belief that Obama supporters committed voter fraud in 2012
4 - belief that Obama is hiding the truth about his early life.

We have had a lot of discussion here about right wing conspiracists - the people who think that Obama was born in Kenya, or that Acorn stole the 2012 election for Obama, in spite of the fact that it was hounded out of existence after the 2008 election. But what about #1 and #2? The two that supposedly prove that "liberals do it too"? How do people feel about those?

Here is what I believe about 9/11....
I believe that our intelligence community picked up a lot of evidence prior to 9/11 that an attack was planned on US soil, and that it would involve airplanes. I believe that memos to that effect were sent to members of he Bush administration, and to Bush himself. I believe that then security czar Richard Clark made a trip to Crawford shortly before 9/11 to personally tell Bush that there was a threat, and that Bush dismissed it. Clark has publically described that meeting, and I do not believe that anyone with the Bush administration has ever denied it.

Here's what I do not believe.... I do not believe that Bush was told that so-and-so was going to fly airplanes into the World Trade Center on this date. I do not believe that Bush "wanted" the attack, or made a conscious decision to allow it, in order to justify invading Iraq. I simply think he was an incompetent moron. So, do I believe in a "conspiracy"? How do I answer the poll?

Here is what I believe about the 2004 election....
Republicans in charge of the mechanics of voting in 2004 (and 2008 and 2012) made the conscious, willful decision to try to suppress Democratic votes. The ballot design that caused Dade County voters to mistakenly vote for Nader in 2000 was suspicious, but might have been simple incompetence. But I don't think it was incompetence that the number of voting machines sent to traditional Democratic areas was intentionally inadequate for expected turnout, and that the number sent to traditional Republican areas was intentionally generous. I do believe that happened, and was intentional. So, how do I answer the poll?

If I had been polled, I likely would have said "yes" to belief in both of these supposed conspiracy theories. I suspect that many of us here would have. Are we nut cases? Should we be questioning the media's conclusion that "both sides do it"? Is there some analysis that people can make about questions number 3&4 that would make them answer "yes" without being nutcases?

This poll has bothered me ever since I first read about it. I would appreciate other people's take on it.

Edited to correct year of Nader on he Florida ballot


Which conspiracy theories do you believe?

65%21 votes
34%11 votes
0%0 votes
0%0 votes

| 32 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Lead foil is MUCH more effective (5+ / 0-)

    Due to its higher density, it's much better at blocking most frequencies that mind control waves are broadcast at. Actually the most effective system is 3-layer; lead foil to block out high energy waves, copper mesh for lower frequencies and dispersing thermal heat signatures, and carbon fiber overlay to remain undetectable by radar.

    "Teach a man to fish, he can feed himself for a life. Don’t feed fish." - Future President Paul Ryan

    by Fordmandalay on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 11:30:55 AM PST

  •  1 is ELECTION not Voter Fraud, and the Belief Is (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sylv, bontemps2012

    it was done in Ohio enough to throw the election.

    It's interesting that they don't list a conspiracy theory that Bush stole the 2000 election.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 11:40:21 AM PST

    •  Exit polls and follow ups in Ohio (0+ / 0-)

      and Florida were out of range for the tallied election results.

      In Florida we didn't get two whole majority-Black precincts tossed out, like 2000 in Duval County. But still the GOPer vote theft in 2004 was shameless.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012 "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army/McCarthy 1954

      by bontemps2012 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 04:00:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I think the poll does imply sinister intent (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    for all of the above. So #1 would imply 9/11 trutherism, that Bush knew about the impeding attacks and allowed them to happen, or that he was involved in an inside job, controlled demolition yadda yadda.

    I'd agree that the questions are too vague. For #4 it does not make it clear if it's asking do you believe Obama was born an American citizen, was his father Frank Marshall Davis, yadda yadda. Just about anyone who doesn't like him could answer that they don't believe he's telling the truth about his past.  

    •  ddn: i think Bush can be explained, albeit pain- (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      fully so, under my SO's favorite maxim:

      Never ascribe to malice what can be explained by incompetence.

      The dude had demonstrated so flipping much incompetence and we had so much dissatisfaction with him, in 2001. Fourteen months into his first term the GOP had a dozen or so folks ready to primary him, remember?

      Remember the plane the Chinese captured for dissection?

      LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

      by BlackSheep1 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 12:07:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  "The ballot design that caused Dade County (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012, Caj

    voters to mistakenly vote for Nader in 2004 was suspicious..."

    wasn't that pat buchanan or am i think of something else?

  •  And now the horrific Newton Massacre. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    these people have NO boundaries--

    It needs to get out that all of these conspiracy theorists have been brainwashed into believing conspiracies perpetuated by a race of evil super beings operating from moon bases from the future.

    Perhaps they would become convinced that their belief in conspiracy theories are all evil conspiracies and something to disbelieve...
    or better, they would go fucking nuts chasing their own smelly tails...

    sorry about the language
    they piss me off

    good good post

    People who say they don't care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don't care what people think. -George Carlin

    by downtownLALife on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 11:49:26 AM PST

  •  There was also one about Bush stole 2000 as well. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wonkydonkey, RWood

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White -6.00, -5.18

    by zenbassoon on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 11:51:16 AM PST

  •  what's worse: conspiracy or stupidity? (0+ / 0-)

    We say that the conspiracists derive a certain grim comfort from the belief that the bad things that happen in the world are part of a master plan, with the implication that the plan and its executors can be fought and defeated.

    Who's to say that we don't derive a certain grim comfort from the belief that all the bad things that happen in the world are the doings of "lone wolves" who are either blinded by privilege or psychopathically indifferent to the suffering they cause in pursuit of their selfish little desires?

    While evil for evil's sake may not be their goal, I have no doubt that everything is going according to plan.

    Something's wrong when the bad guys are the utopian ones.

    by Visceral on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 12:33:38 PM PST

  •  The JFK assassination being something other (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    than a lone gunman was considered CT for years, but it is  now pretty much accepted that it was indeed a conspiracy.   I think there will be a gradual change in the belief about the 2000 and 2004 elections  over the years.  Who knows about 9/11, that one is too scary to contemplate.

    We should not be fighting about equal pay for equal work and access to birth control in 2012. Elizabeth Warren

    by Leftleaner on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 01:51:05 PM PST

    •  My impression (0+ / 0-)

      was that a majority of people have always believed that something was fishy about the official JFK story. Is that not true?

      We decided to move the center farther to the right by starting the whole debate from a far-right position to begin with. - Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay

      by denise b on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 04:04:37 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Many people did believe it (0+ / 0-)

        but there were many who believed the official version as well.  And you couldn't get a media story that would even consider that it was not CT for years.  They treated anyone who questioned it as a crackpot until maybe sometime in the 80's.  Sorta like the commenter below.

        We should not be fighting about equal pay for equal work and access to birth control in 2012. Elizabeth Warren

        by Leftleaner on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 08:31:56 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Look up "1994 Air France 8969." (0+ / 0-)

      Clearly, airliner cockpits had to be secured after that -- the plan was to crash the Airbus 300 into the Eiffel Tower. When it was constructed, that was the tallest building in the world.

      Everybody else did it. ICAO published a standard.

      Not America's FAA.

      "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012 "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army/McCarthy 1954

      by bontemps2012 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 04:06:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  asdf (0+ / 0-)
      ...but it is now pretty much accepted that it was indeed a conspiracy.
      Only because the conspiracy theory has better PR, and they're willing to make their case with eerie music.

      Creationists have also been very successful, with 44% of Americans now reporting a belief in young earth creationism.

      Taking jokes seriously is the exact mirror activity of laughing if someone says they have cancer. --jbou

      by Caj on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 06:54:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Just research the antics of one Secratary of State (0+ / 0-)

    from Ohio named Kenneth Blackwell and just what transpired during the 2004 Presidential election at the polls throughout Ohio.....

    Is the question of widespread voter suppression in other states in the last election cycle going to be the next Tin Foil Hat topic/question as well?

    Were not talking about black helicopters, FEMA detention camps for Americans and the UN scare here......  Now that's Tin Foil Hat "stuff", for sure.

    “The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius

    by LamontCranston on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 04:16:27 PM PST

  •  One stat: 7.5-million paranoids. (0+ / 0-)

    That's based on a somewhat loose 2.5% estimate for Paranoid Personality Disorder.

    But these are people who generate their own false-threat delusions.

    50-million people, at least, are susceptible to manufactured false-threat delusions. Sometimes it's everybody, or a strong majority, where the delusion has media support.

    The effects can be similar.

    -- Recall when Saddam Hussein had nuclear weapons and missiles to deliver them in seconds ???

    -- Today the Fox News audience listened and believed that Real Americans are angry at Obama for infringing on the 2nd Amendment ?

    Artificial paranoia is the key to keeping the Birch Society Republicans in control of their party. They hold 150 seats in the House to 84 for the Business Republicans.

    It's working.

    Maybe not for presidentials.

    "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012 "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army/McCarthy 1954

    by bontemps2012 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 04:31:50 PM PST

  •  hat, please (0+ / 0-)

    somewhere today I read that a neutral article with emotional and biased opposing comments inspired people to dig in their heels further on their previously formed but milder opinions.  

    the defensive reaction is heightened by the offensive comments.  

    power down instead of up.

    sometimes I spend more time reading the comments than the diaries. no offense to diarists: thanks for the launch pad.

    by dunnjen on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 05:27:26 PM PST

  •  I believe two things about Bush (0+ / 0-)

    besides the fact he makes rocks look smart.

    1) He never went after Osama Bin Laden because of his hamiles ties with the Bin Laden family.

    2) I think he knew all along what enron was doing and did nothing to stop them. It wasn't rocket science to figure out. Yet he denied for months there was a manufactured crisis.

    And yes I believe he was warned of 9/11 and dimissed it that sounds like him.

    I wonder how they will rewrite history to make thisone look like anything other than the biggest mistake this country ever made.

    It is the heart that makes a man rich. He is rich according to what he is not what he has -Henry Ward Beecher

    by PSWaterspirit on Sun Jan 20, 2013 at 06:52:51 PM PST

  •  25-30% rug-chewing crazy: (0+ / 0-)

    That's enough to seriously damage democracy, or even start a civil war.

    The "free" white population of the Confederate states at the beginning of the Civil War was about 9.4 million, out of a total US free population of 27.1 million.

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