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Loophole allows dealers to hijack Seattle’s gun buyback with makeshift gun show

Following the mass shooting at an elementary school in Connecticut last month, Seattle raised $120,000 to hold the first gun buyback effort in 20 years at a downtown parking lot on Saturday.

The plan was to trade gift cards for guns that would later be destroyed, but a number of dealers set up a mini-gun show just a block away in a effort to buy up the guns and keep them in circulation.

The Police plan was to provide gift cards versus cash, apparently $100 and $200 denominations. The gun dealers simply paid cash up front.

A couple of the dealers expressed the sentiment that they would hate to see historical firearms destroyed, and another dealer  added

“I would rather see it turned back into the gun community here and used to promote shooting sports,” a dealer explained to KING.
A man bought a rocket launcher from somebody (pic at the link) but it s taken away by the police who 'suspected' it might have been stolen from 'the military'.

No word on an arrest. Of course it wasn't like he had marijuana or anything: just a rocket launcher.

Seriously: a lot of people are gearing up around the country to do these gun buyback programs. I have to admit I am sort of shocked at the effort these guys go through to prevent guns from being taken out of circulation/off the streets..

This isn't a 'constitutional concern':

This is OCD.

Originally posted to Toking Points Memo on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 02:37 PM PST.

Also republished by Koscadia and Shut Down the NRA.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Totems like the Gun to the US (6+ / 0-)

    Wingnuttius Domesticus are very powerful to them. It is all they have that makes them feel secure.

    "Til you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules" John Lennon - Working Class Hero

    by Horace Boothroyd III on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 02:42:08 PM PST

  •  While the police are working in the army (6+ / 0-)

    about where the empty, one use rocket launcher came from - it's probably going to end up as military surplus that someone stupidly sold.

    The 'rocket launcher' in questions is just the tube of a Stinger missile if I'm reading correctly. It doesn't work, can't be reloaded and is essentially just a tube of scrap metal. So it's not even really a weapon. I wonder if they reimbursed for it?

    Look, I tried to be reasonable...

    by campionrules on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 02:44:13 PM PST

  •  Yup, that rocket launcher incident (4+ / 0-)

    Apparently LA and Seattle have both had idiots with rocket launchers show up at gun buy backs. I'm waiting for the inevitable anti-aircraft gun or maybe a 105mm cannon to show up.

    What's wrong with America? I'll tell you. Everything Romney said was pre-chewed wads of cud from Republicans from the last 30 years and yet he managed thru a combination of racism and selling the (false) hope of riches to get 47% of the national vote.

    by ontheleftcoast on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 02:45:50 PM PST

  •  In Arizona they're using a state law that says (10+ / 0-)

    abandoned property must be resold to the highest bidder to stop the melting down of guns. The guy who started the Tucson buy-back program, a Republican, said he's getting threats. I'm sure Seattle and Tucson are just the tip of their efforts to put a kink in the buy-backs.

    NRA Vows To Stop Tucson From Destroying Guns

    stay together / learn the flowers / go light - Gary Snyder

    by Mother Mags on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 03:08:04 PM PST

  •  It is OCD- (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nota bene

    and this is not a game of one upsmanship.

    "Hey----Hey---NRA---How many kids have you killed today?"

    by lyvwyr101 on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 03:10:20 PM PST

  •  I have to rec your diary for the laugh, I can't (7+ / 0-)

    believe it really.  ON the other hand, since the law allows these purchases to occur, is it really subverting the law or stopping the guns, etc  from being on the streets?

    Seriously, how many deaths in the US have been caused by rocket launchers?

    Isn't it better we know the guns are going to legitimate gun dealers and not on the black market?

    OCD, I don't see that, I see pure greed.  They can sell the guns at a much higher price and make a handsome profit.

    That IS the American way, isn't it?

    -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

    by gerrilea on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 03:11:20 PM PST

    •  How many would it take (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      trumpeter, S F Hippie
      Seriously, how many deaths in the US have been caused by rocket launchers?
      before you became concerned ? 1 ? 10 ? 100 ?

      Would you have a stolen from the military rocket launcher on the open market ? If so why ?

      "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

      by indycam on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 03:20:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't answer questions meant to create fear (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        annieli, Otteray Scribe, oldpunk

        I'd only be concerned when our military tells us they have been stolen along with the rockets and they don't know where they are.

        Then it gets serious.  

        I still am shocked someone actually thought they could sell it.  You can't get the rockets for it, not live ones.  Those are kept under strict protocols.

        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

        by gerrilea on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 03:34:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Interesting (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          nota bene, trumpeter, S F Hippie
          I don't answer questions meant to create fear
          Care to share how the question/s "create fear" ?
          I'd only be concerned when our military tells us they have been stolen along with the rockets and they don't know where they are.
          So if only the rocket was stolen you would not mind much if it was sold at a gun show because the rocket launcher was not part of the deal ?

          "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

          by indycam on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 03:41:34 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Nope, don't trust your motives here. n/t (4+ / 0-)

            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

            by gerrilea on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 03:55:35 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  My motives ? (0+ / 0-)

              Are you afraid of answering my questions ?
              If so why ?
              Are you afraid that the truth of your opinions might be seen ?

              "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

              by indycam on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 04:04:03 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  The framing, the manipulation and distraction (4+ / 0-)

                you just engaged in.

                This isn't about me.

                Why do you want it to be?

                See my point yet?

                -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                by gerrilea on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 04:11:35 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  So asking your opinion , (0+ / 0-)

                  asking you questions in response to your comments is making you afraid of something ?
                  I'm doing you some harm by asking you questions ?
                   

                  "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                  by indycam on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 04:21:01 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  ???? This isn't about me but thanks for asking, (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Kentucky Kid, Otteray Scribe, oldpunk

                    I really don't have many fears these days, life is full of work, home, feed the kitties, work, home, play with the kitties, work, home, buy food for the kitties, work, home, buy food for me, work, home and repeat.

                    I might throw into the mix a shower now and again, wash my clothes for work, you know...just to keep up appearances.

                    :)

                    -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                    by gerrilea on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 04:36:06 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You made comments , (0+ / 0-)

                      I asked you questions based on those comments .
                      If you are unable to post your own opinions because you fear my motivation , you have fear , fear of something .

                      This isn't about me
                      What isn't about you ?

                      "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                      by indycam on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 04:54:41 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Indycam, please stop saying I fear, I never said (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Otteray Scribe, oldpunk

                        that I did say: I don't trust your motives.

                        As in "distrust":

                        distrust - definition of distrust by the Free Online Dictionary ...
                        www.thefreedictionary.com/distrust
                        tr.v. dis·trust·ed, dis·trust·ing, dis·trusts. To have no confidence in. distrust [dɪsˈtrʌst]. vb. to regard as untrustworthy or dishonest. n. suspicion; doubt. distruster n ...
                        Trust is something you earn, you haven't earned my trust, it's that simple.  That has nothing to do with fear.

                        Let's end this now please.

                        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                        by gerrilea on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 05:23:21 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Confidence vs Fear (0+ / 0-)

                          You don't "trust" so you will not answer .
                          I never quoted you as saying "fear" .
                          Fear is the word I use to describe what appears to be fear ,
                          a fear to answer questions put to you .  

                          You can say
                          A) A rocket without the rocket launcher being sold at a gun show is fine because there is no launcher . It should be sold .
                          Or
                          B) A rocket without the rocket launcher being sold at a gun show is not fine . It should not be sold .
                          Or
                          C)

                          "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                          by indycam on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 05:58:00 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                    •  Smart on your part.... (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      gerrilea, Otteray Scribe, oldpunk

                      Way too many here now just ask the "why" question to bait you

      •  Has there been 1? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gerrilea
    •  LOL (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      trumpeter, S F Hippie
      Isn't it better we know the guns are going to legitimate gun dealers and not on the black market?
      How do you know that?
      •  Why wouldn't we assume they are? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        annieli, oldpunk

        I guess it depends on perspective really.

        If I recall correctly the guns used in the the Pentagon and Las Vegas courthouse shooting(s) came from the Police selling them.

        That's a bit unsettling.  Many police stations sell guns to make up budget shortfalls.

        And the Las Vegas shooting was prompted by what?

        The man's SSI payments being cut and the despair that ensued.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/...

        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

        by gerrilea on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 04:09:16 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  maybe I'm just dumb (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gerrilea

          but I really have no idea what point you intended to make.

          Let me back up and try to parse this....first, you support the spoof of the police buyback because the guns are going to "legitimate dealers and not on the black market," which seems to me to include two assumptions of facts not in evidence. I wasn't saying you're wrong, just credulous. (The best adjective I can come up with for anybody that feels compelled to compete with a police gun buyback program is "ideologue.")

          Then, I take it you don't believe Seattle PD was planning to destroy the guns, but rather to sell them, which means they would be on the "black market" (?), and could turn up at crime scenes. Which totally couldn't happen if the guns were bought by those dealers. Or something.

          Do I have all that right?

          •  Hum, I guess I never went that far with the (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            oldpunk

            thought process, thanks.

            Okay, I don't think there was any "spoof" of the police gun buyback program, what was done was and still is allowed by law.  I'm seeing business men trying to make money, as they've always have here in these United States.

            And yes my concerns that the police sell guns that were once evidence or in those buyback programs have ended up killing people after they were sold by the police.

            It a big circle to make money, not to save lives, taxpayers being the one to foot the bill for that folly.  We give the police money to buy guns to get them off the streets and then they buy the guns then sell them to make money to shore up their budgets, it doesn't make sense.

            I don't know that the Seattle PD was going to sell or destroy the guns in this case however. If they were going to sell them, then what was the point again?  Just to make extra money for their P.Department?

            If they were going to destroy them, they should have known this was allowed by law to occur, they are the ones we hire to enforce said laws, right? No excuses for not knowing this exceptions, right?

            Now if they didn't want this to happen but they knew they couldn't stop it because they law allows it, Why didn't they petition to get the laws changed.  

            Since they didn't do that, I must question their motives, intent and reasoning skills.  They held a gun buyback program knowing it could and most likely would attract licensed gun dealers that could legally buy the guns right out from under them and they still went ahead with the program????

            So, did they really want to get the guns off the street or not??? Their actions tell me they did not.

            Or is this their way of forcing the laws to be changed? That too is a very real possibility, I don't know much about the politics in Seattle.  I do recall reading about that department being rife with corruption however.

            http://www.liveleak.com/...

            http://www.socialism.com/...

            I guess in the bigger scheme of things I trust the licensed gun dealer more than the Seattle Police.

            http://www.youtube.com/...

            Thanks for asking for clarification.

            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

            by gerrilea on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 05:10:03 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Thanks I don't believe you are, so stop beating (0+ / 0-)

            yourself up. I just wasn't clear enough in my own thoughts though...

            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

            by gerrilea on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 05:14:01 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Seriously (0+ / 0-)

      Seriously, how many deaths in the US have been caused by rocket launchers nuclear bombs?

      Isn't it better we know the guns nuclear bombs are going to legitimate gun nuclear bomb dealers and not on the black market?





      Anyone wanna buy shares of the Brooklyn Bridge? (Bombs not included)

      "What could BPossibly go wrong??" -RLMiller "God is just pretend." - eru

      by nosleep4u on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 04:12:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sweet and funny, how much for the shares? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Otteray Scribe, Samulayo, oldpunk

        Listen, I know everyone's emotional these days, it's gotten to me as well, but we have nothing to fear here.

        You can get legal rocket launchers at army surplus sales, the firing pins and the rockets are illegal to possess by civilians.  The "rocket launcher" is just a metal tube, nothing more, that is sold.  

        It's not about a fictitious scenario that can never happen, really, it is about the stoopid things people do. Or at least that's how I took it.

        And, FYI, the LA Police last year got one in their buyback program too.

        http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/...

        They're not functional and it's impossible to get the rockets for them.

        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

        by gerrilea on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 04:30:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yup. I can build a working rocket launcher (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gerrilea, Samulayo, oldpunk

          in my workshop with stuff I can get at Lowe's or Home Depot.  A working rocket is quite another matter.

          The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand. - Sun Tzu

          by Otteray Scribe on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 06:08:01 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Uh ? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    xxdr zombiexx
    they would hate to see historical firearms preserved

    "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

    by indycam on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 03:14:20 PM PST

    •  To quote from (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      antirove

      the first Indiana Jones film:

      "What a fitting end to your life's pursuits. You're about to become a permanent addition to this archeological find. Who knows, in a thousand years even you may be worth something."
      That kind of historical.

      I am not religious, and did NOT say I enjoyed sects.

      by trumpeter on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 04:00:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Who is the "they" in this ? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        trumpeter
        A couple of the dealers expressed the sentiment that they would hate to see historical firearms preserved and another added
        It read to me that "they" are the dealers .

        A couple of the dealers expressed the sentiment that the dealers would hate to see historical firearms preserved and another added

        "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

        by indycam on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 05:03:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Fixed. I was using drugs when I put this (0+ / 0-)

      together..

      The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

      by xxdr zombiexx on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 05:41:18 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  One of the prominent members of the RKBA (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, S F Hippie, Odysseus, WakeUpNeo

    community here told me if there was a buy back program near him he would set up at the previous exit and buy the guns people wanted to turn in.

                      Just letting people know,
                               Heather

    Torture is ALWAYS wrong, no matter who is inflicting it on whom.

    by Chacounne on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 03:36:41 PM PST

  •  Despite the gun dealers, the buy back was a (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Debby

    success.  The Police gave out $200/Assault Weapon and $100 for anything else.  All $118,000 in privately raised money was paid out in less than 4 hours for thousands of guns.  In addition to the rocket launcher tube, which was confiscated from a dealer, a non-working 1940's Tommy Gun and three working semi-automatic 12 round, 12 guage Street Sweepers were turned in.

    Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a Republican. But I repeat myself. Harry Truman

    by ratcityreprobate on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 03:42:20 PM PST

  •  It wouldn't have mattered if he had marijuana. (0+ / 0-)

    It's legal to carry up to an ounce since 12/6/2012.  Which reminds me that I'd really like to see the study comparing WA and CO gun violence to the rest of the nation now that weed is legal and that gun violence data is supposed to be tracked.  

    Having a large section of the drug black market legalized and regulated  - hypothetically assuming the DOJ manages to not screw thing up (HA! I know!) - will result in a significant decrease in gun violence.  That's my hypothesis anyway.

    Oh yeah, and screw those gun show bastards right in the throat.  I was down there this weekend on unrelated business and the King 5 report was charitable in their portrayal of the gun nuts.  

    "If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people." -Tony Benn (-6.38,-6.36)

    by The Rational Hatter on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 04:15:06 PM PST

  •  "shooting sports" lol. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    vacantlook, Debby
    “I would rather see it turned back into the gun community here and used to promote shooting sports,” a dealer explained to KING.
    Yes, a gun is just like a bowling ball or a catcher's mitt. Not.

    Alternate response: Just who are the 'sports' they want to shoot?

    It is more important to be a confident and articulate speaker than to know jack shit about anything.

    by VictorLaszlo on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 04:29:30 PM PST

    •  Shooting sports (0+ / 0-)

      Odd you wouldn't know these exist, but I'll assume your comment was in good faith and meant as a sincere outreach for more information.

      So I'll help you out and list some shooting sports:

      -trap and skeet
      -cowboy action shooting
      -biathlon
      -3-gun/tri-gun
      -silhouette shooting
      -IPSC
      -CISM Rapid Fire
      -Pentathlon
      -ISSF (there's actually six types under this rubric)
      -benchrest
      -military service rifle

      That's enough to get you started, I think. Mind you, I didn't include archery, airpistol, or crossbow sports even though they are shooting sports. I also didn't include hunting, even though one could definitely argue for it being sport as well (most hunters in the US hunt with the intention of eating what they kill or destroying pests, which is why I personally don't think of it as a sport).

  •  $200 for a green aluminum tube? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    oldpunk

    what a country.

    not that I have any use for a spent AT-4 trainer, except for a bigass birdfeeder.

    I see a very beautiful planet that seems very inviting and peaceful. Unfortunately, it is not.…We're better than this. We must do better. Cmdr Scott Kelley

    by wretchedhive on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 04:30:24 PM PST

  •  I think the RkBRers are going the way of (0+ / 0-)

    HAL9000 and other in the 9000 series.

    My gun control petition was shot down.

    by 88kathy on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 04:34:58 PM PST

  •  Great diary, thanks. (0+ / 0-)

    Spray tons of carcinogens into the ocean to hide petroleum spewed from a hastily-drilled hole from a greedy corporation, but don't smoke pot. -xxdr zombiexx

    by DontTaseMeBro on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 04:44:17 PM PST

  •  Clever. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Samulayo

    Protest and make a buck, too.

    BTW, that "rocket launcher" is a disabled Red Eye.  You can tell because by the yellow stripe on the tube.  They are completely legal to own, but you'd have to have some serious idiots running a buyback program to pay for a hunk of scrap that only collectors would find interesting.  Reminds me of the jokers that paid out for an AT-4 at a recent LA buyback.

  •  Points on Pink ref. (0+ / 0-)

    Thump! Bang. Whack-boing. It's dub!

    by dadadata on Mon Jan 28, 2013 at 06:24:30 PM PST

  •  Used rocket launchers like this are sold openly (0+ / 0-)

    You can buy one at a military surplus store or even online if you want. Completely legally, too, as what you're buying is a big metal tube with zero function. Once the rocket launcher's fired, it's used up. You can't reload or repurpose it. They're purely collector's items for folks who like military surplus gear.

    The foolishness here is on the police's part for depriving the man of a perfectly legal item. Arguably some foolishess also attaches to the assumption that police are experts on military firearms (or any other type, for that matter).  And, of course, for the news outlets that pick up this story and run with it: they are simply being sensationalistic at best ("OMG Gun nut toting rocket launcher!!!"), but more likely are really that uninformed and inept at basic investigative skills. (Also probably still deliberately sensationalistic.)

  •  I read this & I see males waving their penises at (0+ / 0-)

    each other in displays of power & aggression.

    The rocket launcher tube just set off all the limbic system neurons because it was the biggest 'piece' there.

    Logic has nothing to do with it.

    Something that doesn't make good sense, makes bad sense. That means someone is being deliberately hurtful & selfish. Look for motives behind actions & words.

    by CA wildwoman on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 03:03:45 PM PST

  •  My husband read a blog blaming long lines... (0+ / 0-)

    I'll have to ask where he read it, but my husband read a blog on this event (he works in Seattle; we live nearby), that claimed it wasn't well organized, and the very long lines allowed it to turn into a gun flea market.

    I'll leave aside the other issues, but thought I'd toss that out there. As someone who has organized events, whenever you end up with a long line you will have folks who choose to bail, especially if offered an alternative.

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