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front page of Danbury CT paper describing heckling of Newtown victim's father at gun control hearing, as well as Newtown police chief going to DC to support Obama's gun control initiative

Jan 29, 2013 front page of Danbury News-Times

The talk of this town is gun control, gun safety and gun rights.

Danbury News-Times:

Father of Newtown victim heckled at hearing

The sometimes boisterous public hearing -- after nearly four hours of testimony from State Police, parents of slain Newtown first-graders and city mayors -- seemed dominated by gun owners, who railed at more than 90 proposed bills.

"The Second Amendment!" was shouted a couple of times by as many as a dozen gun enthusiasts in the meeting room as Neil Heslin, holding a photo of his slain 6-year-old son, Jesse Lewis, asked why Bushmaster assault-style weapons are allowed to be sold in the state.

"There are a lot of things that should be changed to prevent what happened," said Heslin, who said he grew up using guns and was undisturbed by the interruption of his testimony.

"That wasn't just a killing, it was a massacre," said Heslin, who recalled dropping off his son at Sandy Hook Elementary school shortly before Lanza opened fire. "I just hope some good can come out of this."

Danbury News-Times:
Seeking to disarm the next Adam Lanza before it's too late, a key Republican lawmaker and upholder of the Second Amendment wants the state of Connecticut to require gun owners to lock up their weapons if they live with someone who is mentally unstable.

State Sen. L. Scott Frantz, R-36, a gun owner himself who represents all of Greenwich and parts of Stamford and New Canaan, recently introduced a bill that would tighten the law applying to safekeeping of firearms...

Advocates for the mentally ill such as Mattias urged lawmakers to do their homework before racing to enact legislation.
"We certainly support efforts to reduce gun violence," Mattias said. "I would think a gun owner who has a license for a gun should lock it up no matter who they're living with, as there is no evidence that people with mental illnesses are more likely to be violent than someone else. The latest research suggests that they're 11 times more likely to be victims of crime."

Complex issues, with advocates on every side weighing in. We need to act carefully, but we need to act.
Today we hit 1,400 gun deaths since 12/14.
@KagroX via TweetDeck

Reuters:

A Hispanic Republican, Senator Marco Rubio, complained that Obama's speech neglected border security and left the impression that "he believes reforming immigration quickly is more important than reforming immigration right."

"I am concerned by the president's unwillingness to accept significant enforcement triggers before current undocumented immigrants can apply for a green card," he said. "Without such triggers in place, enforcement systems will never be implemented and we will be back in just a few years dealing with millions of new undocumented people in our country."

Republicans will likely oppose any immigration plan that doesn't put border security first.

Rubio is going to be tossed to the wolves by his nativist party. Just you wait and see.

More Republican infighting stories, even more punditry below the fold...

Politico:

The fight on the right over immigration
David Lightman:
Republicans are split into two camps. There are those such as Rubio who will consider a path to citizenship along with tighter border security. They’re willing to talk to Democrats over how to deal with illegal immigrants and have strong business community support as well as a willingness by key senators to listen.

Then there’s the hard line, championed by Limbaugh and others, who insist on tougher border enforcement and suggest “paths to citizenship” are a euphemism for amnesty.

“The word compromise is thrown around, we have to compromise, seek common ground. Where is the common ground (with President Barack Obama)? I don’t see it,” Limbaugh told his large radio audience Tuesday.

LA Times:
Obama and immigration: 'right tone' or 'same old story'?
The press is having a cow over the concept of Obama getting stuff done in his second term when everyone knows he wasn't nice enough to Republicans in his inaugural (he's doooomed, I tell ya).
We're still asking? @politico: Hillary Clinton still deflecting 2016 questions: http://t.co/...
@ron_fournier via Twitter for iPhone

Will someone please do a tut-tut piece about the focus on the Kerry-Clinton-Biden '16 race rather than THE REAL PROBLEMS FACING OUR COUNTRY?
@RalstonReports via TweetDeck

Leonard Pitts Jr:

So while some people are asking what Te’o knew and when he knew it, some of us simply marvel that we have come into a time when such a story is even possible. Apparently, however, what supposedly happened to Te’o is common enough that it even has a name: catfishing.

It is relatively immaterial whether he lied or not. What is of greater interest is that the story illustrates a sea change in what now constitutes interpersonal relationships. And the new norm cannot help but seem a little odd to those of us who remember when a relationship — or at least an intimate one — presupposed that you and the other person had actually met.

Of course, that was the olden days. Now so much of our world is digital — movies, music, shopping, books — it’s easy to believe everything just works better that way.

But guess what? Not everything does.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:30 AM PST.

Also republished by Repeal or Amend the Second Amendment (RASA).

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Comment Preferences

  •  Thank you for the excellent roundup, Greg (28+ / 0-)

    The photo of the grief-stricken father says it better than words, doesn't it?  How revolting that gun owners dominated the meeting, shouting about their rights to own lethal weapons intended only for mass murder!

    Truly, half of this country seems to be deranged.

    We all have digital relationships--I have Kossack friends who live on the other coast, whom I'm likely never to meet in real life--but, Great Scott, I wouldn't ever claim a "romantic relationship" with someone I'd never met in real life!  What is the world coming to?

    "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

    by Diana in NoVa on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:38:31 AM PST

    •  the heckling of the grieving.... (22+ / 0-)

      and those who talk about the real slaughter from guns is standard issue.  I have been posting in the firearms diaries foryears and years here and seen it among us liberals.  We need to keep going in the face of the hecklers and those who use the second amendment to cut off all regulation and even enforcement of existing laws.  Too many times they have silenced us because we have avoided the conflict with people devoted to a single issue- we fear losing the 25% of liberals who own guns over this.  We even did the same on gay marraige, and now we see the value of a sea change.  I think we need to press the issue now that there is a moment of national empathy and concern.

      You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

      by murrayewv on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:51:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And while we are at it.... (10+ / 0-)

        we should write to support Boy Scouts in considering acknowleging gay scouts as members.  My two nephews and brother are supporting this- All Eagle Scouts.  One nephew is gay and would like to be involved in an organization he loves once again.  If the US military can accept gay and lesbian service members, then surely Boy Scouts can as well.

        You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

        by murrayewv on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:55:56 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I haven't read anything that says (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Heart of the Rockies, lurkyloo

          gays are now going to be allowed in the Boy Scouts.  Maybe I missed something, but I thought the national level decided that they would no longer be the rule maker.  I think it's going to be up to the local groups and that doesn't mean it's going to happen in many places.


          The religious fanatics didn't buy the republican party because it was virtuous, they bought it because it was for sale

          by nupstateny on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:17:24 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  He wasn't heckled (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jo fish

        as has been pointed out here. It was yet another deceptive edit by NBC.

        •  Okay, he wasn't heckled (5+ / 0-)

          He was treated badly by unsympathetic gun owners who think owning any gun they want trumps this father's grief over the senseless loss of his 6 year old child.
          Better?

          “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

          by skohayes on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 06:25:25 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  "2nd Amendment !" "Shall not be infringed !" (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            skohayes

            Yelled out as reasons for keeping high-capacity massacre-enabling guns out there.

            That's not heckling.

            It is far worse.

            "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army Attorney to Sen. McCarthy, 1954. "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012.

            by bontemps2012 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 11:09:11 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  The diary you refer to took (3+ / 0-)

          umbrage of the word "heckling," saying that the outbursts in the audience were responding to Mr. Heslin's question in order to "correct the record."  In his testimony Mr. Heslin had given his considered opinion that there was no need whatsoever for individuals to own semi-automatic weapons with magazines that were capable of spraying 30 or more bullets in a matter of a few seconds, blowing apart whole groups of people.  There is no record to correct here - this was the father's opinion.  His question was why - why anyone needed a weapon such as he described.

          And the respondents never answered that question.  The outbursts were loud and chaotic, but what replies could be understood in the din were variations of "It's our right" which didn't answer Mr. Heslin's question at all.  Because there is no answer to why someone needs these weapons - none at all.

          The only reason people have the "right" to own such weapons is because no law has been passed to prohibit it; the constitution doesn't grant to right to own any weapon.  Certain weapons can be, and should be, prohibited by law without infringing on the Second Amendment.  And guns like those used at Sandy Hook should be.

          "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

          by SueDe on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 07:28:20 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I do not disagree with your (0+ / 0-)

            sentiments on some weapons, But that isn't the point. look at the entire video. They may not have answered his question but they were not shouting him down or heckling.

            •  So blame the headline writers. (0+ / 0-)

              They often write inaccurate headlines.  You're correct that what happened wasn't heckling, and that term should not have been used by anyone who viewed the video or read the entire writeup of the meeting.  However no one should be able to claim that the outbursts were answering the father's question, either.  That's at least as inaccurate as "heckling."

              "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

              by SueDe on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:29:34 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  He most certainly was. MSNBC ran the whole thing. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          StrayCat, buffie, blugrlnrdst

          He asked a question and the shouted responses were not answers to his question. Shouting "the second amendment" to every question is not an answer or a legitimate response.   Lawrence O'Donnell's commentary was spot on.

        •  bullshit (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ratcityreprobate, Mr MadAsHell
          Hint: if the moderator of a public meeting says you will be cleared from room if you don't shut up, you are heckling
          @davidfrum via Twitterrific

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 08:34:21 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Classy reply (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            LS Dem

            Look I am NOT defending those clowns, but he clearly asked for a response and sever seconds later several gave some. They were not shouting. They appear bad enough, no need to exaggerate the nonsense.

            •  see frum (0+ / 0-)

              I agree it doesn't need to be exaggerated, but Frum is right and you aren't. It's really that simple.

              "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

              by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 08:52:47 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Look at the UNEDITED video (0+ / 0-)

                And then say he was heckled. Please ... Its NBC for goodness sakes.

              •  See Frum indeed (0+ / 0-)

                http://www.thedailybeast.com/...

                "In retrospect, I'll concede this: the CTPost' s use of the word 'heckling' was misjudged, and it was not the right word for me to have repeated."
              •  Jeez dude (0+ / 0-)

                A "sorry about the vulgarity and I stand corrected " would be nice for a front page  writer?

                •  this Newtown resident has little patience (0+ / 0-)

                  for what I perceive as rudeness to one of my stricken neighbors.

                  You are not right and there's no apology warranted.

                  A very fair and neutral reporter, Ken Dixon was there.

                  Later, a dozen or so of the enthusiasts actually heckled (definition: "objections designed to embarrass") and interrupted Neil Heslin, the father of Jesse Lewis, a first-grader among 20 dead.

                  He rhetorically asked what gave people the right to own the type of military-style weaponry that killed 26 in the school, when they piped up "The Second Amendment," until Senate Majority Leader Martin Looney offered to empty the room.

                  While rude and indicative of a certain strata of gun owners who are defeating their own arguments through boorish public behavior, these angry, mostly white guys seem to be embarrassing outliers.

                  http://www.ctpost.com/...

                  "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                  by Greg Dworkin on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 07:28:37 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  more definitions (0+ / 0-)
                  heckle [ˈhɛkəl]
                  vb
                  1. to interrupt (a public speaker, performer, etc.) by comments, questions, or taunts
                  heckled  past participle, past tense of heck·le (Verb)
                  Verb
                  Interrupt (a public speaker) with derisive or aggressive comments or abuse.
                  Heckle is the correct word. He was heckled.

                  "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                  by Greg Dworkin on Sun Feb 03, 2013 at 08:17:00 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Nope, he asked for a response (0+ / 0-)

                    And again I am not defending the jerks, just trying, as I stated before, to set the record straight. He wasn't "heckled" by an stretch. Your definition does not match what occurred, as even your authority Frum admitted. I wouldn't even be persistent if it weren't for your juvenile and rude vulgarity.

                    Have a nice day.

    •  very kind of you to say that (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Stein, skohayes, Amber6541

      thanks!

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:07:48 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Those rat bastards (5+ / 0-)

      I've just about had it trying to be civil with some of these "guns-at-all-cost" people. It's against my upbringing to wish them to share the experience of a family who loses loved ones to senseless gun violence. But it's getting more difficult to restrain when I hear stories like the one from Danbury. The aftereffects of losing his son in that massacre will not go away for that father from Newtown until he is laid to rest. Our family knows.

      This reminds me of what was done to Cindy Sheehan.

      There has never been a protracted war from which a country has benefited. The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. - Sun Tzu

      by OHeyeO on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:10:48 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The rabid gun crowd, I fully believe, (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        eagleray, skohayes, tb mare, bdop4

        have now hit a wall - that being 12/14.

        That has changed the route of the river, so to speak.

        There will be changes; a variety of nuts and bolts changes/restrictions and a general tightening up of the process of scrutinizng legal gun buyers.

        I alsop think though, as clearly evidenced by everything from people stocking up on AR-15's, ammo and parts, we will see an increased black marketing in these weapons. A ban won't even be necessary to cause it.

        So many people are just fucking delusional about these weapons, their importance, and this bullshit "government tyranny" thing.

        I gots news for you: the government ain't going to be the enemy: it will be the corporations who own the government.

        And they don't care about dead people.

        We'll put some things together and we will reduce rates of violence and accidents.

        We won't stop these wild, random, never-saw-that-coming kinds of events. They are less frequent than hitting a giant lotto.

        We'll have prevented some tragedies, and that will be good; we cannot win them all. Even with the most draconian of laws.

        Just this morning, outside the Atlanta Federal Penn, a cop caught 4 guys trying to smuggle the following into the prison:

        2 30-packs of beer, protein powder, 2 dozen cell phones, and 2 loaded handguns.

        Superbowl party in prison.

        We cannot keep drugs, phones, and drugs out of PRISON.

        that should be a reality-based hint for some....

        The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

        by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:38:59 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  it would seem to me the rabid gun crowd (7+ / 0-)

          actually represents very few of gun owners; I would hazard a guess that most of this fringe group are not actual collectors or hunters or recreational shooters but would come more under the rubric of hoarder.  The problem is that media today tends to make everything about the clowns and ignores the rest of the circus so we have people who would never under normal circumstances be handed a microphone suddenly finding themselves in the spotlight

          •  yep - thats why I used the term. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            skohayes, bdop4

            I am not going to badger the RKBA crowd the way others do because thet's not ehlping and they are most likely not a danger to you or yours.

            People have to accept that some people are responsible gun owners. It's just reality.

            Some people who THINK they are 'responsible gun owners" are rabid, foamy-mouthed cranks who disrupt the discussion, such as the hecklers of the Man in Newtown and those numbnuts who still spew the Sandy Hook CT.

            They are minorities, but loud and fronted by the NRA which has a lot of money and political muscle.

            They won't derail reforms this time.

            Let them huff and puff.... High winds do not last all day.

            The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

            by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:49:44 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  CT as in conspiracy theory (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              skohayes, entlord, xxdr zombiexx

              not CT as in Connecticut.

              "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

              by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:53:14 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  most of the reasonable suggestions I have (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              xxdr zombiexx, Amber6541, StrayCat

              seen for gun regulation (I have given up on the term "control" as too emotionally charged at this point in the discussion) simply include measures which most gun owners would already practice themselves.

              For example, waiting periods don't particularly bother me because I acquire most of my firearms by auction which requires transfer to an FFL holder ( i relinquished mine years ago) which means a normal wait for me of 2-4 weeks.  Adding a week or so to the wait time for a thorough background check gives me no grief (though if I fail such a check, I should have the right to appeal the decision since I once held both FFL and explosive permits from the BATF and I would want to know why the change in status)

              The problem arises when folks want to take away my 10 gauge Damascus twist wall hanger (with both barrels more or less rusted out due to neglect by a previous owner) when it is no more dangerous than my pair of genuine Gene Autrey cap pistols.

    •  Did you watch the video? Heckling? (0+ / 0-)

      There was no heckling.

      He asked the audience a question.  there was a long pause and a few people said something that has been reported "The Second Amendment".

      That is not heckling.. and reporting it as such is pathetic pandering for political purposes.

      •  It was a rhetorical question. (5+ / 0-)

        The response was meant to shut him down...aka 'heckling'.  

        The guy just lost his kid, and a bunch of assholes are more concerned about being members of a well armed militia...which, if we were being constitutional and literal about it, would mean that they'd need to register themselves and their AR-15s so they could be official members of said militia.

        Let's see someone propose that and then watch the gun nuts freak out.  And I'm not against guns...I grew up hunting.  I am against assault rifles and the people who masturbate with them.

        Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

        by darthstar on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 06:49:15 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  the response was meant to answer his question (0+ / 0-)

          He really looked like he was looking for an answer from the audience.

          •  thats not how people there reported it (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ratcityreprobate
            During the hearing on Monday, Heslin asked why Americans needed “to have one of these assault-style weapons or military weapons or high-capacity clips?” Several gun advocates shouted about the Second Amendment in response. Those who shouted were admonished by the chairman, who threatened to clear the floor.

            “It didn’t really phase me,” he told CNN’s Piers Morgan. “It was no more or no less than I would have expected. It wasn’t the answer to my question.”

            Heslin said he supported the Second Amendment, but believed that assault weapons and high-capacity magazines should be restricted. He also supported universal background checks on gun purchases.

            “I am in support of the Second Amendment and I think people do have the right to bear arms and have guns.”

            http://s.tt/...

            he wasn't shouted down, but they were rude.

            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

            by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 07:57:02 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  more specifically (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ratcityreprobate

            no, he was not 'looking for answer'.

            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

            by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 07:58:57 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  ... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ratcityreprobate, darthstar
            Hint: if the moderator of a public meeting says you will be cleared from room if you don't shut up, you are heckling
            @davidfrum via Twitterrific

            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

            by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 08:33:27 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  No you are not (0+ / 0-)

              "heck·le  (hkl)
              tr.v. heck·led, heck·ling, heck·les
              1. To try to embarrass and annoy (someone speaking or performing in public) by questions, gibes, or objections; badger.
              2. To comb (flax or hemp) with a hatchel."

              Neither of these took place.

          •  You can't be serious. (0+ / 0-)

            Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

            by darthstar on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:21:31 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Kind of a weird phrase to throw in there. (20+ / 0-)
    ...a key Republican lawmaker and upholder of the Second Amendment wants the state of Connecticut to require gun owners to lock up their weapons...
    I could see "gun rights proponent" or something, but "upholder of the second amendment" sounds like everybody to the left of him is trying to repeal the second amendment.

    "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

    by Bush Bites on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:41:35 AM PST

    •  That is how they shape the argument.... (12+ / 0-)

      filled with straw man statements about folks confiscating all weapons so our socialist government can round us up for the gulag.  It is pervasive.

      You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

      by murrayewv on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:59:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I understand that. (5+ / 0-)

        I was just surprised that a newspaper reporter or editor wound use a loaded term like that.

        Appears to show a bias.

        "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

        by Bush Bites on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:04:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The News Times IS biased. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Bush Bites, Tool, skohayes

          Cancelled my subscription and stopped reading it long time ago.  

          This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

          by DisNoir36 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:17:01 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Then that explains it. (4+ / 0-)

            It was like a phrase Fox News would slip into a story.

            Had to either be bias or incompetence.

            "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

            by Bush Bites on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:21:23 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  The Times sucks. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              StrayCat

              Ever since it was bought out it's gone increasingly rightward.  It all but fellates our Nazi fuckwad of a mayor in print and doesn't give any coverage to the other side at all.  Last mayoral election nobody even knew who was running against him.  It was a fucking joke.  Last year Occupy Danbury and that same mayoral candidate got together to occupy a space in front of Town Hall with homeless people to bring to light his promise to end homelessness in the town.  They were treated like they had the Black Plague by local news.  

              This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

              by DisNoir36 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:25:02 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Local news in PDX (0+ / 0-)

                was biased against Occupy here, too.  Especially the NBC affiliate - they send this cocky little jerk out; he was sneering at the protesters and sucking up to the cops (who were restrained by city government from cracking heads.)

    •  they seem to overlook Article 1, section 8, (0+ / 0-)

      clauses 15 and 16.

      ecstatically baffled

      by el vasco on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:10:17 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  These are some of the portions of the constitution (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        el vasco

        I think the SCOTUS ignored in their decision in Heller, specifically the definition and description of militias in disregard of the designation of militas in the Second Amendment.  Since the Heller decision, though, several of the justices who voted in the majority have made statements to the effect that the government does have the authority to limit the numbers and types of weapons that individuals can own.  The legislature just hasn't passed any laws to do that.  

        So the question is no longer one of constitutionality; it's been thrown back into the political realm.

        "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

        by SueDe on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 07:41:05 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  That's the ultimate aim.. (0+ / 0-)

      You cannot have significant gun control without repealing the 2nd Amendment.

      Some on the left are honest enough to say it out loud.

      •  No it isn't (0+ / 0-)

        What is needed is to change the public perception of gun ownership.  It has started and needs to continue.

        Gun ownership needs to be treated like cigarette smoking - used to be socially acceptable, now smokers are restricted and smoking is regarded as a negative behavior.  We need to make gun ownership something that 75% of the country regards as unnecessary and not to be done in public.  People can continue to own guns, they can continue to shoot in restricted areas, but they can't carry them into public places and will be fined (at a minimum) if they do.

        And please don't tell me the Second Amendment forbids any of that - people are still allowed to have guns, just not to wave them in my face.

  •  Dearest Marco....your approach should be more (8+ / 0-)

    empathetic....leaving the right-wing yahoo stuff to the right-wing yahoos......Oops....you are a right-wing yahoo.

  •  I was disappointed MSNBC didn't have Ralston on... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Heart of the Rockies

    ....when Harry sold the Dems down the river on filibuster reform.

    He seems to know how Harry's brain works better than anybody.

    Why wasn't he interviewed?

    "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

    by Bush Bites on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:46:35 AM PST

  •  In what universe (13+ / 0-)

    did the Framers favor guns over human life? Where does it say that in the Second Amendment?

    The willingness of gun absolutists to shrug off gun deaths as unfortunate human collateral shows that there will be a special Circle of Hell just for them -- but we still need to figure out how to enact sensible gun regulation here on Earth!

    •  I believe if the framers saw how distorted (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skohayes, tb mare, Silverleaf, lurkyloo

      and perverted all of this has become and the weaponry at hand today, they themselves would rewrite the 2nd amendment.  I honestly do not believe the framers could imagine those kinds of weapons. They had cannons but did not feel the need to park one in front of their homes.   Maybe they were less fearful and more humane and felt they could protect their own by their own ways than relying on a piece of metal which seems to have replaced courage.  They didn't need some club to reinforce their ability to protect their families.  They were stronger in belief of the worth of life than people of today.   Makes one sad to think people are so afraid, they feel naked without a piece of metal attached to their bodies.  It is indeed perverted.

      We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

      by Vetwife on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:15:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I would point out that during our all too frequent (4+ / 0-)

      foreign adventures, you see the same sort of attitude among some members of the public, so the deaths of  (fill in blank) villagers is either because they were insurgents, were used as shields by insurgents or were sympathizers or were "unfortunate collateral damage".  I believe you are only seeing a transfer of attitude and vocabulary

  •  Gee, heckled by gun advocates? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Desert Rose, Iberian, Egalitare, Inland

    Why does that sound familiar?

    Fuck me, it's a leprechaun.

    by MBNYC on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:48:37 AM PST

  •  Scarborough: We shouldn't be obsessing over the (6+ / 0-)

    debt.........WTF?.......This is the GOP's only talking point Joe.

    •  First gun control, now this. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tb mare

      NYC must be finally rubbing off on him.

      "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

      by Bush Bites on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:54:11 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  How long before he loses his... (0+ / 0-)

        ..."cool kids club" membership and is forced to turn in his secret decoder ring???

        When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative. --Martin Luther King Jr.

        by Egalitare on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:50:24 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  krugman got to him n/t (6+ / 0-)

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:56:53 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Krugman's blog post about incestuous (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skohayes, tb mare

        reinforcement pretty much highlighted Morning Joe as Exhibit A.

        That's not even "gun control". It's more like "massacre control".

        by Inland on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 06:18:34 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  And Joe wrote a "guest" blog (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          buffie

          in Politico yesterday (pretty sure it was Politico) that completely misrepresented what Krugman said and has said in the past.
          I'm pretty sure he is too stupid to understand the basics that Krugman laid out for him.

          Mr. Krugman's view is that Americans would be better off if its government ran deeper deficits and ignored its longterm debt.

          Read more: http://www.politico.com/...

          “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

          by skohayes on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 06:41:17 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Joe's right that Krugman proposed (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            skohayes, offgrid

            running deeper deficits now (to get us back to higher rates of economic growth), but it was Richard Haas, who knows nothing whatsoever about economics but was sitting at the same table, who threw out the accusation that Krugman was ignoring the longterm debt.  Krugman specifically stated that once the economy was sufficiently recovered (i.e., unemployment  substantially reduced and a greater rate of growth restored) that would be the time to turn to deficit and debt reduction.

            Richard Haas is a foreign policy "expert" and Joe is a lying blowhard.

            "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

            by SueDe on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 07:53:36 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Thanks, Sue (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SueDe

              I didn't see the clip, because I don't watch Morning Joe- I get all my entertainment from people yelling at him on Twitter every morning. :)

              “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

              by skohayes on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 07:59:22 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  Here's hoping your political crystal ball (8+ / 0-)

    is right on this one:

    Rubio is going to be tossed to the wolves by his nativist party. Just you wait and see.
    I will wait with baited breath.

    As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter words, but to live by them. John F. Kennedy

    by JaxDem on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:52:02 AM PST

    •  Cruz is waiting in the wings. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JaxDem, DRo
      •  He appears to be a joke. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JaxDem, DRo, skillet, skohayes

        From what I've seen.

        "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

        by Bush Bites on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:55:05 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Cruz is not a joke. (0+ / 0-)

          He's a highly educated man who previously served as Solicitor General for the state of Texas.  He has access to huge pools of money from both business interests and the teapartiers who financed his Senate campaign.  He's a very dangerous man - don't underestimate him.  He may sound like just another teatard blowhard, but he's not - his constituency is big business which is more than willing to back his political career.

          "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

          by SueDe on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 08:00:43 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  So is Raul Labrador (0+ / 0-)

        ha.

        I'm pretty tired of being told what I care about.

        by hulibow on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:21:39 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Rubio is screwed (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skohayes, DRo, Heart of the Rockies

      If he supports immigration reform he loses the nativist base.  Hell he'll lost the nativist base anyway for showing ANY support for modest reform.

      If he opposes it or obstructs it then he'll get trounced by the non Cuban Latinos who don't particularly like Cubans anyway.  In Florida for example there is an ever growing population of non Cuban Latinos who will all turn on him.

      So he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.  Frankly I love to see that lying sack of stupid shit squirm.

      This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

      by DisNoir36 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:21:26 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  If there is a Hispanic equivalent to... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JaxDem, DRo

      ..."Uncle Ruckus", Rubio, Cruz and Labrador are all finalists for that designation.

      When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative. --Martin Luther King Jr.

      by Egalitare on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:53:47 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Land of the free; home of the brave: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MBNYC, Sue B

    Where honesty and decency, and the people who hold these things to be of value, are held hostage by cowardly bullies with guns.

    Proponents of gun violence own guns. Opponents of gun violence do not own guns. What part of this do you not understand?

    by Liberal Panzer on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:53:46 AM PST

  •  Still no reports of deaths from marijuana. (7+ / 0-)

    Please contact your representatives and tell them to keep arresting Americans for nothing.

    Thank you.

    The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

    by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 04:58:11 AM PST

    •  This has to be disheartening to those who like (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Desert Rose, skohayes

      marijuana being legal. I know they sit around WAITING for somebody to die from marijuana so thy can show, once and for all, that it wasn't abjectly stupid to ban marijuana in the first place.

      Because, in America, things that kill people are ILLEGAL.

      Only things that are safe and good are legal.

      Like tobacco.

      And alcohol.

      And guns.

      Stock up on the goodness.

      The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

      by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:05:07 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  you just don't hang around the right sites (0+ / 0-)

      where any weed related death is counted as a weed caused death i.e. such as the pedestrian who wandered into traffic after a Bogart festival or the auto driver who tested positive for weed after a wreck or dealers shot when a deal went South and so on.  bit of a reach to be sure, but at least you know some folks do collect stats in this manner

      •  Have spent ten full years searching stuff (0+ / 0-)

        on the internet about weed; have never seen anything like that.

        A coroner in the UK about 4 years ago tried to write "MARIJUANA" on 2 toe tags and was quite savagely castigated about that.

        People who are against marijuana that much are simply stupid.

        The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

        by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:50:11 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  That bloated sack of excrement, Rush Limbaugh... (4+ / 0-)

    would have a hard time seeing any ground past his repulsive girth, let alone common ground.

    Why is it that so many Republicans rely on vile ideologues (and charlatans) like Limbaugh and Wayne LaPierre for their inspiration?

  •  Mark yer calendars..... (6+ / 0-)

    Feb 23: AR-15/.223 Appreciation Day

    Gun rights activists are planning a nationwide “day of resistance” on 23 February, a date that bears a typographical similarity to .223 assault weapon cartridges used in the Sandy Hook and Aurora shootings.

    Organisers said they chose the date – whose common short form in the US is 2/23 – as a “clever way” to attract “the gun crowd” to the event, but denied it would be seen as insensitive.

    A series of rallies by Tea Party activists and pro-gun campaigners will be held across the US in response to the 23 executive orders introduced by President Obama that organisers say are “unconstitutional”.

    Oh no....Not insensitive at all......

    The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

    by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:03:01 AM PST

    •  Give em more rope (4+ / 0-)

      let them hang themselves with it.  People are turning against them en masse and are increasingly becoming disgusted with their antics and BS.  Especially here in CT.  When you have the Republican Senate minority leader telling a gun lobbyist to cut the shit and republican representatives from towns which go 80%-20% GOP advocating for gun control, you know something has changed.  The reality is many of the GOP people here in CT are GOP for fiscal reasons.  The gun nuts are a very small minority, especially in SW CT where all the power and money resides.  I work in these towns and these people more than anything care about their personal safety and that of their children.  They live behind 6ft walls and fences and drive their kids in their SUV's to school.  They are for gun control by 3 or 4 to 1.  These are blood red towns like New Canaan, Darien and Greenwich.  These are wealthy people, many who come from other countries with strict gun laws who see the madness from a different perspective and want it stopped or prevented.  Gun rights advocates will have a very hard time stopping the tide here in CT so if these tea bagging assholes want to have their .223 rally so they can shoot themselves I say go for it.  The more they push, the more they look like insensitive and crazy assholes, the more likely, at least in CT , we'll get real meaningful gun control legislation.      

      This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

      by DisNoir36 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:35:33 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  who are the "geniuses" who are doing this? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tb mare, xxdr zombiexx

      It appears they wish to have a superheated environment to make any sort  of discussion impossible

    •  How many will show their "appreciation" (3+ / 0-)

      by winning a Darwin Award?

      •  The last "Gun Appreciation Day" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Heart of the Rockies

        ended up with 5 different people shot at gun shows.
        This one should be just as good at showing the rest of the public that many "law abiding" gun owners have no business owning a gun.
        If you're on Twitter, follow our own KagroX (@KagroX, I think) for daily updates on gun accidents. It's really eye-opening.

        “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

        by skohayes on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 06:47:56 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Here's a nice quote from organizer. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skohayes
      Dustin Stockton, one of the event organisers, denied the date had been chosen to capitalise on the recent shootings. “This is not something that is aimed at that at all. It’s not a reaction to those events specifically at all,” he said. “Everybody feels terrible for those families, but this is really a message to Washington, and is separate from those events.
       
      “It wasn’t intended in any way to connect with any weapons used by any crazy people.”
      Asked if people might make that connection, he said: “I see how people will try to make the connection to shootings committed by crazy people. Not that there is an actual connection, though.
      Wait, this is a day of appreciation for the very weapon used by crazy people.  Isn't that a connection, and not just random and coincidental?

      That's not even "gun control". It's more like "massacre control".

      by Inland on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 06:23:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  This should work out almost as well (0+ / 0-)

      as the Day of Appreciation for Chick-Fil-A.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 08:05:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  morning! (8+ / 0-)

    in addition to APR (link), there's This is not your father’s NRA from our new Sen, Chris Murphy.

    there's Gov politics/polls:

    Republican disapproval of New York's tough new gun-control law could be taking a toll on Gov. Andrew Cuomo, whose all-time high 74 - 13 percent job approval rating last month drops to a still-solid 59 - 28 percent in a Quinnipiac University poll released today.

    Voters in non-gun homes approve of the governor 68 - 19 percent. Voters in households with a gun disapprove 50 - 40 percent.

    Republican approval of the governor, 68 - 18 percent in a survey by the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University on December 12, just two days before the Newtown massacre, is a split 44 - 43 percent today.

    http://www.quinnipiac.edu/...

    and

    Gun-control laws in the Keystone State and in the nation should be stricter, Pennsylvania voters say, with overwhelming 19-1 support for laws requiring background checks for all gun buyers, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today.

    Pennsylvania gun-control laws should be stricter, 57 percent of voters tell the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University poll, while 4 percent say less strict and 35 percent say keep state laws as they are. National gun-control laws should be stricter, 60 percent of statewide voters say, with 5 percent saying less strict and 32 percent saying keep current laws.

    There is strong support in Pennsylvania for a number of measures at the national level:

    95 - 5 percent for requiring background checks for all gun purchases;

    60 - 37 percent for a nationwide ban on the sale of assault weapons;

    59 - 39 percent for a nationwide ban on the sale of magazines with more than 10 rounds.

    There is less support on most gun-control questions among voters in households where there is a gun, but 95 percent of voters in these gun households support stricter background checks.

    http://www.quinnipiac.edu/...

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:05:58 AM PST

    •  I loved the Murphy op-ed (3+ / 0-)

      especially the title, oh and the comments because Politico comment sections always make me feel better about myself - grateful that I am me. When I was a kid in Michigan, hunting types went to the NRA with their children to earn gun safety certificates - nothing even close to the monied lobbyist for the gun industry that it is now. This is important and should be said often by everyone who is passionate about passing gun-related legislation.

      I'm pretty tired of being told what I care about.

      by hulibow on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:33:01 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  he is quite correct about the NRA (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skohayes, LS Dem

      though he did not go into as much depth about the NRA as I would wish.  Traditionally the NRA was anathema in the South where the KKK took the NRA to be a "Yankee Invention" and as proof pointed to its early officers, mostly former Union officers.
      Murphy is correct that the NRA has supported gun regulation during much of its history but circa 1972, there was a sort of "coup" where the hierarchy was purged and replaced with more conservative leaders (and also it appears its new policies were more acceptable to many former Dixiecrats.  I find the coup and the date birth of the GOP Southern Strategy significant).  Later there was another coup by even more extreme RW elements in the organization and finally the coup which brought LaPierre to power.
      The question is why was there this series of changes in leadership, each more radical than the last, and who financed each change in leadership?  I believe there is a direct connection (if anyone ever got into their books) between the sources of financing, shifting from individual members to institutional members, and the radicalization of the organization.
      (disclaimer: I am not and have never been a member of the NRA)

  •  Don't let them stop us! (5+ / 0-)

    Keep pushing.
    Keep fighting.
    Keep talking about Gun Control.

    Don't let these loud gun nuts screaming about the 2nd amendment drown out getting something changed here and now!

    A majority of Americans want some form of Gun Control legislation passed now. The NRA, GOP and Tea Party lunatics are just being the loud minority in the room. We cannot and should not let them derail real, effective Gun Control legislation just because they are whining.

    Children died.
    Many others died before them.
    It's time we put an end to this.

    NOW!

    "I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately." -- George Carlin, Satirical Comic,(1937-2008)

    by Wynter on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:06:19 AM PST

    •  Loud gun nuts screaming about the 2nd (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skohayes

      Amendment will not stop the process of determining what actually will help lower gun accidents and general gun violence.

      We'll jut have to listen to them.

      Terrorist gun nuts will be an issue because they are delusional and WILL act on those delusions.

      But it will not stop the process of finding effective interventions.

      Effective interventions will probably be nuts and bolts kinds of things, nothing terribly dramatic.

      it won't be a blanket ban, as dreamed of by some, nor will it be a house-to-house gun hunt, as feared by some.

      So let's get the drama out of the discussion ASAP.

      Thanks.

      The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

      by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:27:07 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  A long debate favors 2nd Amen Restrictions (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Heart of the Rockies, RadGal70

        Because the measures on the table now will not stop more slaughters from happening, and there will be more slaughters whether or not this round of reforms succeeds. Eventually, a consensus will emerge that we have to follow Britain and Australia, get rid of all semi automatic weapons, handguns, rifles, ban their possession and prosecute offenders. The total number of guns in circulation also needs to be reduced.
            At the moment this seems as unlikely and near impossible as say, legal gay marriage did 20 years ago, or a black president. But demographics favor us, and the bitter clingers are dying every day. reason will ultimately prevail.

  •  NY State already has laws that (0+ / 0-)

    require firearms to be locked up and for some to have a trigger lock.  We've had these laws for a while.  For some strange reason there were some complaints but there were no aggressive protests when the law was enacted and nobody was alleging a violation of their constitutional rights.


    The religious fanatics didn't buy the republican party because it was virtuous, they bought it because it was for sale

    by nupstateny on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:13:22 AM PST

    •  Practically speaking, gun safes and trigger locks (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Heart of the Rockies, nupstateny

      ... are unenforceable requirements. Nevertheless, they are very wise conditions of gun ownership.

      When Adam Lanza represents the Second Amendment to those gun crazies and they shout down the First Amendment rights of a grieving father, they are not civilized enough to enjoy either.

      2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

      by TRPChicago on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 06:03:18 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  which is one reason I advocate "safe rooms" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skohayes

        such as closets or other such rooms where gun safes can be kept and where there can be multiple layers of prevention to prevent unauthorized people from gaining access.  That being said, there are always ways to frustrate any security.  For example I remember some would be thieves who hitched their truck to the bars on a pawn shop's door but only managed to pull the bumper off their truck and another set of geniuses who cut a hole in the roof and tried to "fish" for guns in the racks with a noose (no noose is good noose?) but were unable to overcome that the guns were secured by a chain through their trigger guards  

        •  Adam Lanza or someone else so bent on getting... (0+ / 0-)

          ... a gun that he'll kill his mother will, I suggest, not be deterred by a second or third set of locks.

          Yes, locks will deter kids and many others, and gun safes and trigger locks should be required. But only as one measure. SCOTUS has held that you can't require the gun that's for self defense to be locked ... and therefore be less available.

          2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

          by TRPChicago on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 08:02:08 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  which is the reason for safe rooms which gives (0+ / 0-)

            you time to access your weapons.  In my case, the triple locks are on the door to the safe room, along with a door bar as a final line of defense.  Once in the safe room, there are the gun safes which are supposedly fireproof and lockpick proof.  Inside the safe, the guns are secured with a chain through the trigger guard; handguns are in their separate locked safes within the safe and have trigger locks. (the long gun safes are self fabricated)  I can afford to have this many levels of prevention because the safe room in theory affords me the time to access any weapons.

            The safe room itself is constructed so one wall is actually the roof and two walls are over a sheer stairwell.  The fourth wall is a single metal door with a metal frame attached to the studs (2"x8") with lag bolts.  The time the room gives me is the time to call the cops and let them deal with the situation  

            •  And safe rooms are an answer for gun control? (0+ / 0-)

              We require gun owners to have safe rooms?

              I well understand the concept of safe rooms, having seen them in nice homes in third world capitols, Nairobi comes immediately to mind. But these are, you're suggesting, necessary and appropriate in America? As an answer to violence against gun owners?

              2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

              by TRPChicago on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 12:48:08 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  each gun owner has to come to his own (0+ / 0-)

                conclusions.  I will defend myself in defense of my life or my family.  However I will retreat given the chance as I have no desire to kill another human being.  I will give up property simply because I can buy another TV (I buy one every 20 years whether I need it or not) and have little that would be more valuable than a human life.  

                So is a little extra architecture worth having to deal with the aftermath of killing another human (and despite what hollywood would have you believe, killing another human leaves a deep and indelible mark for years afterwards)?

                •  No dispute, here. Do what you need to do. (0+ / 0-)

                  But I'm not a gun owner. And I don't want to have to invest in a safe room. I want to stanch the flow of guns!

                  2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

                  by TRPChicago on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 07:05:03 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

      •  Mostly they're enforced after the (0+ / 0-)

        fact, after someone is seriously injured or killed and it's usually a child.


        The religious fanatics didn't buy the republican party because it was virtuous, they bought it because it was for sale

        by nupstateny on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 08:55:36 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  How soon they forget, re: Te'o story (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Heart of the Rockies
    It is relatively immaterial whether he lied or not. What is of greater interest is that the story illustrates a sea change in what now constitutes interpersonal relationships. And the new norm cannot help but seem a little odd to those of us who remember when a relationship — or at least an intimate one — presupposed that you and the other person had actually met.

    Of course, that was the olden days. Now so much of our world is digital — movies, music, shopping, books — it’s easy to believe everything just works better that way.

    Back in the DAY, in Victorian times, love letters and cards allowed expression of deep emotion which society dictated was improper to be expressed otherwise.  Often, these relationships were between a couple that had never met in person.

    Someone once asked me why do you always insist on taking the hard road? and I replied why do you assume I see two roads?

    by funluvn1 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:13:49 AM PST

  •  Hearing in Newtown on Guns (4+ / 0-)

    For any locals.

    A public hearing addressing gun violence, mental health, and school safety is schedule for Wednesday, January 30th, 6:00pm at Newtown High School, 12 Berkshire Rd, Newtown, CT.

    We need you to attend.
      Whether you testify or witness, your presence is urgently needed.  The opposition will be out in huge numbers and in full force.  Please come!

    Even if you cannot attend the hearing
    or don't want to publicly testify, you can still submit testimony (this means you can still have a voice) to the task force for their review by sending it to:
    asaferconnecticut@cga.ct.gov  

    Put Gun Violence Prevention Working Group in the subject line. Please be aware that any submitted testimony may be made public.
    This must be e-mailed by noon Wednesday.

    However, your presence at the hearing is much more powerful.
     

    Unfortunately I work so I'll likely not be there but these hearings are starting to be alot like the 2009 healthcare town hall meetings that were swamped by teabagging nutsacks demanding the government stay out of their Medicare.

    They need strength in numbers.  People are getting disgusted with the gun nuts antics and i think we should give them more rope to hang themselves but we need numbers.  

    This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

    by DisNoir36 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:15:36 AM PST

    •  ... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skohayes, gchaucer2
      During Tuesday's hearings, a psychiatrist testified about the lack of psychiatric services in Connecticut for children and adolescents, resulting in undiagnosed disorders.
      Testimony at Monday's hearing on gun violence included gun advocates who said they wanted to preserve their Second Amendment rights, along with gun owners who said they support more background checks and the registration of rifles in the state.
      Newtown First Selectman Pat Llodra said many residents have been watching the hearings and looking forward to having their own say.
      "These are very difficult issues that are emotionally laden and generate a lot of passion from all sides," Llodra said. "This is an opportunity for our residents to express their perspective and give the lawmakers some guidance in how to move forward."
      http://www.newstimes.com/...

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:41:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The Lanzas seem to have been a family of means (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tb mare, skohayes, DSPS owl

        And there are reports I have read - cnt find now - indicating something was going on with Adam and Mom and Dad had email conversations about getting him seen somewhere.

        The assault on mental health in this country, I feel, has left Americans with a real paucity of quality mental health/psychiatric interventions, and to the point it doesn't matter if you have money: resources are just hard to come by.

        And that's wrong.

        DISCLAIMER: I am a mental health professional and would benefit from increased mental health service funding.

        but then so would America.

        It's not cheaper to ignore mental health issues.

        The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

        by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:45:40 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  there's a paucity of inpatient beds for kids (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          entlord, tb mare, xxdr zombiexx

          that's a known fact.

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:56:29 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Mental health is a serious issue in the US (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          raboof, tb mare, skohayes, RadGal70, DSPS owl

          and I would love to see GOoPers back expanded services in this area.  Say maybe funding Obamacare?  

          But lets get serious.  Mental health is an issue in other countries as well.  They may have better health care systems and do more to treat it but it exists nonetheless.

          Yet despite that you SELDOM hear about a person with mental health issues shooting up a school in these other countries let alone a shooting every other month like we have here.

          Mental health IS NOT THE ISSUE.  Neither are video games or movies or music.  That's all a distraction from the real issue which was, is and will remain G-U-N-S.

          That said, I'd love it if we did something about mental health here as well.  

          This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

          by DisNoir36 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 06:09:14 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I have to wonder if mental health is not fresh (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            skohayes

            ground for con artists.  Online education has proved a fertile ground for nonaccredited institutions to fleece credulous students while now I am seeing ads for in patient mental health services which include, from the ads, beachfront accommodations, masseuses and gourmet chefs, a completely "stress free environment" along with guaranteed outcomes and no need for daily counseling.  

            My fear is an exacerbation of the two tier system where Medicaid pts are herded into either outpatient facilities or else dormitory style warehouses while those with money get even more opulent digs than before.  The old system was bad but the decades since the budget cuts began only made the system worse.  My concern, poorly expressed here, is a return to the bad old days instead of our finding a brave new way to deal with mental illness

            •  Bad old days? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              skohayes

              The bad old days for me conjure up images of what it was like in Fairfield Hills in Newtown.  The place used to be a huge mental heath facility that looks like something out of some horror movie or Silent Hill.  The town has begun to redevelop the site and even relocated the Town Hall into one of the old buildings which was completely renovated.  Even then though I can't help but be creeped out every time I go there.  It's like I can almost hear the screams coming from one of the yet abandoned buildings.  

              I'd rather not go back to those days.  There has got to be something better.

              This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

              by DisNoir36 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 06:48:04 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Adam Lanza by all accounts had access to mental (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DSPS owl

            health services.  As did most of the mass murderers in the past couple of years who were generally somewhat affluent white men.

            The problem of lack of access to mental health services -- which is real, isn't the cause of the massacres. But it would be nice if better mental health care results from the aftermath of these tragedies. I suspect it won't. The lawmakers who are screaming about mental health and video games are just deflecting. They aren't a bit interested in solving any problems. They just use those things to avoid solving the problems caused by such easy access to so many guns.

            "Speak the TRUTH, even if your voice shakes."

            by stellaluna on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 06:53:37 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  NYT (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DRo, DisNoir36, gchaucer2
    “Necessity is the mother of political invention,” said Bill Whalen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution. “Republicans are looking at a third straight presidential defeat if they don’t improve their image with Hispanic voters.” He added, “You don’t have a lot of Republicans walking around town saying he lost an election because of our bad relationship with the gun control lobby.”

    A gun bill that is limited to background checks, however, still remains a strong possibility in Congress this year, if the Republican leadership of the House would bring such a measure on the floor. “I was a co-sponsor of a conceal carry bill in Nebraska that had a significant background check component,” said Senator Deb Fischer, a newly elected Republican from Nebraska.

    Such a measure, many gun experts say, may actually do the most to stem gun violence, because it would help keep weapons out of the hands of the mentally ill and criminals. “We might be in a happy place where effectiveness conforms with political feasibility,” said Jon S. Vernick, the co-director of Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research.

    http://www.nytimes.com/...

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 05:20:26 AM PST

  •  Except that he wasn't heckled (0+ / 0-)

    As has been discussed by another diarist. Just another deceptive edit by NBC.

  •  Those people heckling Heslin are (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    no better than the Westboro folks.  People, are you so greedy that you will villify the father of a massacred 6-year old?  Have you no decency?

    •  McCarthy = NRA. (0+ / 0-)

      That Army attorney was named Robert Welch. No connection the Birch Society's Welch.

      "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army Attorney to Sen. McCarthy, 1954. "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012.

      by bontemps2012 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:52:01 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I think the right is setting up (0+ / 0-)

    the Democrats and Obama for failure on this immigration thing- the sticking point being "border security".
    How does one define a "secure border"? Who will be the judge of that? What about our northern border and our ports?

    “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

    by skohayes on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 07:08:48 AM PST

    •  I honestly don't think so (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skohayes

      sure, it could be, but Rs actually want to pass this and succeed.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 07:50:55 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I admit it's kind of fun (0+ / 0-)

        watching the Tea Party on one side and the moderate realists on the other who know they can't win an election without broadening their base, tearing the republican party in half.
        I just want some decent immigration reform and not some sop bill that won't accomplish anything.

        “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

        by skohayes on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 08:02:27 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Idaho (R-gun nut) legislature (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012

    alarmed by man walking around the Capitol building with a side-arm:

    Senate President Pro Tem Brent Hill said: “To think that somebody is bold enough to have followed these children around with a sidearm in plain sight — who is also bold enough to go through trash cans, take pictures of representatives’ desks and shuffle their papers — all of that created a great deal of concern.”

    Read more here: http://www.idahostatesman.com/...

    Did you catch that?  Senate President Pro Tem Brent Hill indicated that part of the problem was that the man had a “sidearm.”  So what?  He’s supposed to have a sidearm – he’s a gun nut, and in Idaho you don’t restrict a gun nut’s ability to parade around with his gun, even in the state Capitol.  So why did Hill mention it?  This is especially odd since  Brent Hill is a proud champion of the gun nuts.
    http://americablog.com/...

    “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

    by skohayes on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 07:15:34 AM PST

  •  My bumper sticker on personal firearms (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bontemps2012
    Do you own your gun?
    Or does it own you?

    Have you noticed?
    Politicians who promise LESS government
    only deliver BAD government.

    by jjohnjj on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 09:00:24 AM PST

  •  One more BIG LIE is that borders are (0+ / 0-)

    weak. Which implies that huge numbers of people are entering illegally by sneaking over in the night.

    That is a lie.

    For every border sneak, there are 50 people who enter legally then overstay their lawful date or jump ship or jump airliner.

    It's almost trivial to get into the U.S. on a tourist visa. From Mexico, Guatemala, anywhere. Get a passport and apply. Student visas are handed out with little to no oversight.

    Border Security = bxllshxt.

    One common pattern is to have one family member come over legally, as on a nursing visa, then while that person is getting citizenship and then putting in appeals for family members, they come over and start getting their lives together.

    The entries are legal. Nobody uses the border by foot, but the poorest of the poor.

    It's amazing how the Birch Society Republican pick their lies to fit public expectations. They ignore facts. Lies are their most important products.

    "Have you left no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Army Attorney to Sen. McCarthy, 1954. "We have done nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to apologize for." NRA 12/14/2012.

    by bontemps2012 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:49:15 AM PST

  •  I'm confused... (0+ / 0-)

    David Lightman makes a reference to Limgbaugh's large radio audience.  Does he mean obese audience or large volume of listeners?  Cuz, me thinks Rush's audience is living in the cobwebs of his mind.

    Republican definition of "Trickle down economics" - Pissing on the little people.

    by labdad95 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 at 10:58:54 AM PST

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