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If we are the Reality Based Community, we need to challenge ourselves on our own blindspots.  We all have them.  Are we going to go around denying reality about FAT and health, like the climate deniers walk around with their heads in the sand?  As I have read in some whinging and complaining and defiant diaries on this topic?

This is ridiculous.  We are causing climate change.  Period.  And EXCESSIVE FAT on us is bad for our health.  Period.  Does not matter what the reason.  That is it.  That is Reality.  Those are the FACTS.  Whether we like them or not.  Period.

In no way do I suggest that we all have the genetics or constitution to have a lean and limber body.  Each person's health is a complex equation of elements which does not work the same for each person.  A good weight for some of us may be above what Weight Watchers suggests.  However, being obese is NOT OK.  Under any but the most dire medical circumstances.  Continuing on with the donuts, etc. is an act of denial when we are obese.  Period.  

Our health should be one of our main concerns.  And our weight is one of those health barometers.  Denying health realities in order to allow ourselves to continue bad health habits is just lying to ourselves. Like denying climate change.  You can lie all you want, but it won't prevent the negative effects from happening.

If we are obese through poor food choices and lack of exercise and undue stress and lack of sleep, to name a few reasons, then it is incumbent on us to try to rearrange our LIFESTYLE in order to become healthier.  Period.  The responsibility is on us to change enough so that we are not obese.

If we are obese due to a medical condition or drugs that we are taking, we need to work as hard as we can to mitigate the impact of the weight gain we are suffering, with the advice and help from the doctor.

Our diet is one main area that can help us lose weight.  Excessive sugar, dietary fat, alcohol and salt as well as simple carbohydrates are all fat makers and we need to challenge our insistence that we cannot or should not live without them.  Or at least stop lying to ourselves that an excess of those things is healthy for us.  Food addictions are a reality; sugar and salt and fat crave more sugar and salt and fat.

How do we know if our consumption of these things is excessive?  Well, if in combination with lack of exercise, we are obese, then it is too much.  Simple.  Bragging about his weight while eating a donut on David Letterman was such an act of hubris that I would doubt Christie's acumen in any sphere, not to mention the political.  He exhibited enormous denial and deserves the flak he is getting.

Exercise is also something that we have to incorporate into our lives.  In some way. We can't avoid the fact that nature made our bodies to move.

It is simply making excuses saying that we work too hard or too long to be able to make different choices.  Just check out our shopping baskets at the supermarket and see what our choices are about our health.  WE are the ones bringing those foods to our home.

Sleep also has a dramatic impact on weight.  Lack of has been shown to affect adrenals which love to hold onto fat.  So, adjustments to sleep must be made.  As in getting more and better.

The journey for some to lose weight may be a life long struggle (as it has been for me,) but that doesn't mean that the facts change to suit our preferences.  I still carry more weight than Weight Watchers suggests (which is a reasonable level for my body,) and I will continue to work with my lifestyle, food choices, sleep, stress level, etc. to create a healthier body.  Because the health facts don't change just because I may not want to exercise or eat good foods.  I am responsible for my health, regardless if I have any medical conditions... my response needs to be one of acceptance of reality and not denial.

Once again, I am talking about obesity.  How much weight a person carries under that, providing they eat a proper diet and exercise enough, is between them and their doctor.

We can all have our opinions, but we can't create our own Fantasy Worlds based on denial.

So, let's be a Reality Based Community and stop defending BAD Habits, shall we?

UPDATE ONE

Dear Gentle, Yelling Readers,

Please READ what I have written.

I am not being JUDGEMENTAL.  

I am not demonizing those who are FAT.  I am not TELLING you how to live.

I am simply saying that there are MEDICAL REALITIES THAT CAN'T BE WISHED AWAY.

NO AMOUNT OF BEING POLITICALLY CORRECT CAN CHANGE THE FACTS.

NO AMOUNT OF SILENCE AND PRETENSE CAN CHANGE THE FACTS.

I Am simply saying in this diary that justifying BAD HABITS IS DENIAL.

And I am saying that WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR OWN HEALTH.

Shoot me if you want.

But to me that is reality.

PERIOD.

Yell away, that will also be bad for your blood pressure (as well as being obese.)

UPDATE TWO

Please note as I have repeated repeatedly in the diary:

I AM TALKING ABOUT OBESITY.  Other than that, one's weight is between doctor and patient.

UPDATE THREE:

There is a fantastic diary on Weight which I highly recommend all read and rec.:
I used to be fat

If I could rec and tip it a 100 x's I would.  It deserves a place on the Rec list.

Another great diary that I suggest you read and rec and tip:

I am not fat

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Comment Preferences

  •  STFU (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kkjohnson, worldlotus

    The problem with your thesis is
    1) It is judgmental - you are pretending that if people have bad genetics or were raised to eat a lot of fat (thus developing more fat cells) then they just have to "work harder" as if that is easy to do, implying that failure to do so indicates a lack of character

    2) The only end-point from such thinking is a Republican-ish attitude of "if you are fat you have to pay more" or "you deserve what you get in ill health" unless you tow the line with weight -

    3) I understand the science, but personally you have no right to dictate to me what i eat and

    4) From a political perspective, if you want to lose lots of elections, turning these into direct public policy (i.e. 16 oz sodas in NYC) is a great way to do so

    Because the other reality-based thinking is in regards to human nature, how people respond to being treated poorly and without dignity due to their weight.  Its not as simple as your diary suggests.

    •  By the way (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bleeding blue, worldlotus

      I am 6 ft 3, 255 pounds, and haven't been sick a day in the last 20 years, and have normal cholesterol -

      And if I weighed what the charts say, I'd weigh 175, be thin as a rail, and I promise you I'd be sick all the time (because I'd be frickin HUNGRY ... LOL)

    •  one question jgkojak, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mskitty

      do your think being obese is good for a person's health?

      We Must DISARM THE NRA The next life you save may be ONE OF YOUR OWN!

      by SeaTurtle on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 12:26:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think it is a lot more complex (4+ / 0-)

        than you or many people make out.

        One commenter referred to studies that, when they correct for what people actually eat, whether people drink alcohol, etc. find that carrying around some extra pounds is marginally not as good- but is not nearly so disastrous as some would have it be.  

        Now obviously, if someone is in that 2% of the morbidly obese (400 pounds), yeah, that's not good for you, but neither is being in the 2% anorexic underweight supermodel category.

        The BMI charts are simply not made for everyone - and we pay way too much attention to those as opposed to other lifestyle choices (I don't smoke or drink and I eat my veggies - I just eat too much of everything, because I like to).

        •  well we almost agree! (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          claude, Wreck Smurfy, mskitty
          Now obviously, if someone is in that 2% of the morbidly obese (400 pounds), yeah, that's not good for you, but neither is being in the 2% anorexic underweight supermodel category.
          Obese has many marked and significant medical risks.

          To repeat I am not talking about being overweight.  I am talking about being obese.  No where do I suggest that we accept any societal norm about how we should look.

          We Must DISARM THE NRA The next life you save may be ONE OF YOUR OWN!

          by SeaTurtle on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 12:47:08 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Don't people have a right to take health risks (6+ / 0-)

            if they so choose?

            Medical ethics says that people have tremendous personal rights in regard to the healthcare choices they choose, like refusing treatment and other "medical risks."

            I believe most people who fall into the category of "medically obese" are well-aware of the health risks of this.

            Life itself is a health risk.

            Leads to death. Every time. Even if you're thin!

            Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

            by mahakali overdrive on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 01:09:56 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  depends; this was debated in med school back in (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Wreck Smurfy, mskitty

              the 1980s where the individual right to live an unhealthy life was balanced against the social costs.  One proposal that came out of the discussion was a "bad act" tax where people who neglected their health would be subject to an additional tax to cover the social costs of their actions (same would apply to not wearing a seat belt)

            •  ya can do what you friggin well want with your (4+ / 0-)

              life and health, MO,

              What I am saying is just don't pretend that bad habits ARE GOOD when you are obese?  Reality is reality.  FActs are facts.

              Capiche?

              We Must DISARM THE NRA The next life you save may be ONE OF YOUR OWN!

              by SeaTurtle on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 01:24:55 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Weird tone (4+ / 0-)

                I'm not going to respond. It's too sharp. I don't understand where you're coming from, sorry.

                Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

                by mahakali overdrive on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 01:28:07 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Here are some more bad habits (5+ / 0-)

                Having a high-stress or dangerous occupation, being exposed to toxins in the workplace, driving a lot of miles, playing football, going out in the sun without sunscreen, having many sexual partners (and how many would that be?), having unprotected sex, eating a poor diet without being overweight, not cleaning your teeth thoroughly every day, riding a bicycle in city traffic, mountain climbing/rock climbing/hang gliding/skiing/etc., not getting enough sleep, working night shift, listening to too-loud music, living in a crime-ridden neighborhood, living in a city with high air pollution or bad water or excessive noise levels, using toxic cleaning products, having mold in your basement, spraying insecticides in your garden, traveling in parts of the world having infectious diseases.....

                There is no limit to how judgmental we can get about how other people live their lives.

                We decided to move the center farther to the right by starting the whole debate from a far-right position to begin with. - Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay

                by denise b on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 03:34:43 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  Seems you're missing the point (5+ / 0-)

            As another recced diary points out,

            When you have to work 60 hours a week to pay the bills, you are freaking tired when you get home and cooking for 30-40 minutes with your kids telling you how hungry they are sucks, especially when you can hand them a bag of government subsidized chips or nuke some nuggets that cost a buck or two.
            Or maybe you just stop at McDonalds or BurgerKing on the way home and feed the kids ammoniated hamburgers and grease fries.

            It is also extremely difficult it to make healthy food choices in many full time jobs. What can you possibly do if you get only 30 minutes for lunch break? And if the only food available on site are vending machines full of really bad, processed food? Or the only food available is what you can safely keep in your car, or on the bus to work?  

            A lot of people have pointed to the role of Big Corporatist Ag in foisting unhealthy food choices on us. But there is a more insidious cultural dimension that Big Corporatist Ag is only one small part of. Ian Welsh, bless him, puts his finger on part of it:

            This is a huge problem in individuals, as the weight loss, addiction, psychology, psychiatry and self-help industries attest.  There is, generally, more money in  not solving a problem, as drug makers with their palliatives understand, than in solving it.  The people who have power and money and influence in the status quo are not sure that in a new world, with a new economy, and the new ethics which must undergird that new economy, they will be on top.  They are right to believe so.  They are creatures of the current world, and in being created, have created the world they are unsteady masters of.  Their ethics and morals, their way of business, of living, of apportioning power and influence and money must go if there is to be widespread affluence.  Their methods have been tried for 40 odd years now, and if measured against the human weal, have failed.  They will not, they cannot adapt, not as a group. They were not selected for the skills it takes to create a new type of affluent society, they have not even been able to maintain the mass affluence of the old society, and not just because they have not wanted to.  They would be a different elite, made up of different people with different ethics, talents and skills if they did want to.

            Ordinary people also have the wrong ethics, the wrong morality.  Much is written about why consumerism is bad, but the ultimate problem of consumerism is not how it makes us feel but that the consumer passively chooses from a menu created by others, not to fill the consumer’s real needs, but to benefit those who created the menu.  Such a passive people cannot understand that choosing choices without creating choices is not choice, it is the illusion of choice.

            A conservative is a scab for the oligarchy.

            by NBBooks on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 01:24:03 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yes (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mahakali overdrive, worldlotus

              We all have a right to take risks with our health.

              At some point any tax or addtl fee is really just another regressive way to punish poor and working class people who don't have the time or money to diet or join a gym, etc.

              In other words, at some point its just a way for insurance companies to scam more money from people.

    •  I am fat because of a hereditary condition (0+ / 0-)

      (It's called lipedema, you can look it up.) Not only am I fat, but I am increasingly disabled, and need to use a walker when I move around. Attitudes like yours do not make it easier for me to live in the world.

      Whenever a stranger looks at me, it's very possible that that person sees me as a symbol of everything that is wrong with America. But the facts are these:

      * Unlike many Americans, I work out for an hour a day.
      * Unlike many thin people, my blood sugar and cholesterol are completely normal.
      * Despite my disability, I work, support myself, look after my elderly father, contribute to my community and pay my bills and my taxes.

      Please read "Rethinking Thin" by Gina Kolata, health writer for The New York Times. You may also wish to read up on the Health at Every Size movement, which encourages larger people to dance, run, swim, bike, make love and take care of their bodies instead of despising them.

      I do not choose my friends based on their health habits. Some of my friends smoke; some drink too much; some drive their motorcycles too fast; some eat microwave popcorn. They're my friends because they are good and kind people. I prize kindness ahead of health, and I'm afraid I find you lacking.

  •  Is it "incumbent upon us"? (12+ / 0-)

    Who gets to tell me what my priority should be for living my life? I've done a big weight loss. 60 pounds some years ago, and have kept off most of it. Let me tell you, to lose that weight was like having a half-time part time job on top of my full time job, and I'm sure prioritizing it when I did had a negative impact on how productive I was during a couple of very critical years in my career. If I had it to do over again I might have focused on career goals then instead of physical vanity. To maintain that weight loss takes many hours per week now as I do all whole foods cooking from scratch, eat no gluten grains, added sugars, dairy or processed foods, and very rarely can eat out.

    Not everyone has the luxury of free time to do that -- lots of people have to work a real part-time job on top of their job just to survive.

    So who is to tell us in this world and this economy that it's "incumbent upon us" to be thin?

    The problem is when we look at the literature the risks of overweight are far smaller than those who want to sell us a weight-loss program product would have us think.  Recent (peer-reviewed) meta-analyses suggest that when you look at four major factors (smoking, vegetable consumption, exercise and alcohol consumption) if you control for those factors the hazard risk increase associated with just carrying some extra weight is negligible. So why is it my social duty to rearrange my life around weight loss, rather than just maintaining the good habits of eating my veggies, not smoking, and being more active? If I do those things I am not guaranteed to lose weight, but my additional mortality risk will be almost entirely mitigated.

    Do you not see that it is the grossest idolatry to speak of the market as though it were the rival of God?

    by kismet on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 12:09:25 PM PST

    •  kismet, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      timjean2, a2nite

      do you think being obese is good for your health?

      We Must DISARM THE NRA The next life you save may be ONE OF YOUR OWN!

      by SeaTurtle on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 12:27:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Let me give you my point of view (9+ / 0-)

        For starters, I have a rare disorder. I'm also allergic to 15 separate foods, many of which are healthy. Nuts, peanuts, milk, oranges, tomatoes, potatoes, corn, oats, wheat, rice, chicken, clams, celery, chocolate and red dye #40. Luckily, none of the allergies are life-threatening, although a couple of them will make me feel like I'm dying.

        I had emergency surgery (my intestines were tangled by an adhesion left from a previous surgery and kinked, so they were shut off like a garden hose). That was about twenty years ago. Nearly died.

        Then, over the next fifteen years, I went downhill, physically. Slowly at first, and then more rapidly as time went on. Started out drastically underweight, and then gained weight - but lost strength. That nearly killed me. It got to the point where just getting up out of a chair was excruciatingly painful. Because I was heavy? No. I was maybe 120 lbs total.

        I was so severely weakened that my entire life was built around coping strategies just so I could survive.

        Let's cut to the chase, here: I'm maybe ten to twenty pounds over where I'd like to be. But I can't eat a single bite of food without taking digestive enzymes. If I do, I end up back where I was - severely weakened, and nearly unable to move. I'm not talking about being a little bit tired - I'm talking about a complete inability to move at all.

        To top it off, I tried recently to add even more healthy foods (ones I actually enjoy, by the way) to my diet. Salads, grapefruit, and so on. I was eating proteins, fruits, vegetables, and little in the way of carbs.... and getting weaker by the day.

        At one point I gave in and had some mac and cheese... and the next day I had regained some strength. Why? Beats the hell out of me. Evidently I need a lot of carbs. So I still exercise as much as I'm able, I still try to eat healthy foods, but I have to supplement them with heavy carbs just so I can get through the day.

        Yeah, I'm an odd case. So what? Everyone is different and unique, and for you or anyone else to act as if losing weight is simple "if you just want it enough" is utterly ridiculous.

        Losing the ten or so pounds I feel I need to get rid of has to be a low priority for me right now, if I want to get through the day. What happens if I gain more weight? I don't know. But I know damned well I won't be listening to you or to anyone else who doesn't have a fucking clue about my personal situation go on about how I should "care about being obese". I care about being ALIVE, and I care about the quality of my life.

        I have nieces and nephews who are fit, and others who are overweight. I love all of them equally. One of the overweight ones actually lives a better lifestyle (a much healthier one) than some of those who appear to be fit. You want to get on her case, and give a pass to the skinnier ones? To hell with that.

        I'd rather be overweight than judgmental. Period. And I'd rather have friends who understood, than friends who tried to "fix me" without caring about how that made ME feel.

        "We have only the moral ground we actually inhabit, not the moral ground we claim." - It Really Is That Important

        by Diogenes2008 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 01:35:35 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Just to let you know (6+ / 0-)

          If you can read my comment above and still ask me if I  

          think being obese is good for your health?
          Then you're going to get an earful from me, and deservedly so.

          "We have only the moral ground we actually inhabit, not the moral ground we claim." - It Really Is That Important

          by Diogenes2008 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 01:37:02 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  my compassion for your health struggles, D (0+ / 0-)

            in response to your question:

            Your weight is hardly obese.  Please research the definition of obese.  And please note that I mention several times that I am not talking about people with severe medical conditions.  I did say that and do mean that.

            Best wishes in your health

            We Must DISARM THE NRA The next life you save may be ONE OF YOUR OWN!

            by SeaTurtle on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 01:50:37 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  You don't seem to get what I'm saying (9+ / 0-)

              There are many people out there with health issues. Mine might someday MAKE me obese, and it's possible I'll have no choice in the matter if I want to survive.

              I am NOT alone, here. And when you say people can lose weight if they want to, you discount the struggles of those like myself who have different circumstances.

              Health is a difficult issue, and I don't think it helps to shame those who are overweight.

              "We have only the moral ground we actually inhabit, not the moral ground we claim." - It Really Is That Important

              by Diogenes2008 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 02:03:46 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  that is not what I am saying, D (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                a2nite

                I am asking people to stop justifying BAD HABITS.....

                no where do I say that people can just lose weight if they want.  I focus on the bad habits.

                good luck

                We Must DISARM THE NRA The next life you save may be ONE OF YOUR OWN!

                by SeaTurtle on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 02:39:39 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  But you're doing that (7+ / 0-)

                  by being judgemental about those who are fat.  You didn't go after drug addicts, smokers, sex addicts, adrenal junkies, anorexics, nail biters, people who go to work with the flu, or other bad habits.

                  If your focus was truly on "bad habits", you'd have broadened your scope and not focused just on those who are fat.

                  And before you toss your "do you think being obese is good for your health?" question at me, my answer is:

                  It depends upon the person and the reason they are obese. Some people are healthier at a much higher than average weight, some work really hard at being healthy despite the weight they can't lose. I don't think we have the right to assume we have all the facts on each and every case of obesity and to sit in judgement over others if they don't meet our standards of weight or health.

                  All knowledge is worth having. Check out OctopodiCon to support steampunk learning and fun. Also, on DKos, check out the Itzl Alert Network.

                  by Noddy on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 03:56:40 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Hmm.... (3+ / 0-)

                  I don't drink. I don't smoke. Don't do recreational drugs. Never have.

                  I drink water with my meals. I'll have a soda (regular, not diet) with a meal when I eat at a restaurant - maybe six times a year.

                  I don't gamble, cheat, steal, sleep around, or do any other risky behaviors.

                  I don't care for donuts, or most pastries.

                  My biggest vice is having some Lindt dark chili chocolate now and then after a meal. And as I said, I eat (for the most part) healthy foods.

                  I also walk as much as I can (since I can't drive).

                  So.... what bad habits am I going to give up?

                  And why is your focus strictly on bad FOOD habits?

                  We all have our vices. We all have choices to make. And they are OUR CHOICES.

                  My weight (or lack thereof) is nobody's business but my own.

                  I can't imagine telling others that they shouldn't drink, or gamble, or whatever else they might do - nor should I. It's none of my damned business.

                  So why is food everybody's business? What does my weight, or the weight of that person over there matter to you or anyone else?

                  And if you're going to say "it raises the health costs of all Americans" then you would have to say that about liquor, and guns, and cigarettes, and driving, and.... you get my drift.

                  Unless you're going to come to my house (or anyone's home) and sit there and tell them ALL the things they should and shouldn't do, then diet is off limits also.

                  And if food isn't off limits, let me know your address and what time I should be there, so I can critique your entire lifestyle, and hold you to MY standards.

                  "We have only the moral ground we actually inhabit, not the moral ground we claim." - It Really Is That Important

                  by Diogenes2008 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 07:20:46 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

        •  Severe food allergies here, too. (4+ / 0-)

          And I hate the unsolicited advice, from idiots who tell me "oh yes, there's a cure for your condition" and tell me about desensitization (not a cure) to the "hey! Follow this diet plan" folks, to even the one guy last week who said I was losing "too much" weight (? what gives him the right?).

      •  I think it's one of many risk factors. (4+ / 0-)

        I object to the moral panic over fat and the conflation of thinness with personal virtue in our culture, though (even in the face of scientific evidence that the OMGdire risks of fat are overblown). And I'm curious to know how we would implement "incumbent on us" in real people's lives.

        Do you not see that it is the grossest idolatry to speak of the market as though it were the rival of God?

        by kismet on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 02:07:58 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Did you know (3+ / 0-)

        being underweight is far more dangerous than being overweight?

        I have been both - being underweight is far, far worse.

        There are lots of other things that people choose that are not good for their health.  Things that they do because they enjoy it.

        But you know what, I personally would rather live a short and well-enjoyed life rather than being obsessed every minute of the day that something is going to kill me.

        Many others think it is better for others to live a longer, more miserable, deprived life.

        To each their own.

        •  Aside from that (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mahakali overdrive

          Stress can kill you just as fast as anything else. So if you spend your life miserable about your weight - you'll likely die sooner because your stress levels did damage to your system.

          As I said above, I have physical issues. But my take on it is to enjoy life as much as possible. Find the beauty wherever it lies, and appreciate it.

          If you feel the need to diet, go for it - remembering that every now and then it's healthy to treat yourself, so that you don't feel deprived.

          Regardless of how long you live, finding a way to make your life a happy one is key.

          And isn't that the point, really? Quality of life?

          "We have only the moral ground we actually inhabit, not the moral ground we claim." - It Really Is That Important

          by Diogenes2008 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 07:11:40 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  This is a major public health issue (19+ / 0-)

    that is affecting our pocketbooks, our families, even our military readiness.  

    We can't ignore it and wish it away.  By the same token, there is no reason to demonize and ridicule those who are overweight.  Personally, I don't feel it is my place to tell someone what to eat or how much to weigh.  It's plenty difficult enough for me to tend to my own business in that regard.

    It IS our business to promote education about food and advocate for food inspections and wholesome school lunches.
    We can work to restore PE in our schools and to provide bike paths in every town.  From a public health standpoint, there is a lot we can do.  

    It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

    by Radiowalla on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 12:09:49 PM PST

  •  Anybody here familiar with the C.A.G.E. test? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mumtaznepal, ozsea1
    Two "yes" responses indicate that the possibility of alcoholism should be investigated further. The questionnaire asks the following questions:

        Have you ever felt you needed to Cut down on your drinking?
        Have people Annoyed you by criticizing your drinking?
        Have you ever felt Guilty about drinking?
        Have you ever felt you needed a drink first thing in the morning (Eye-opener) to steady your nerves or to get rid of a hangover?

    If you substitute "excessive eating" for "drinking" there might be something to learn.

    And just like alcoholism has a major genetic/metabolic component to it, so does the issue of eating and weight.  As I think I noted in another post on this topic, being "overweight" actually has some positive longevity aspects to it, suggesting that the definition of "overweight" is very culturally driven.  That being said, "obesity" and "morbid obesity" as medically defined have real and actual negative health and longevity consequences.

    So getting back to the modified CAGE questions ... if positive answers are based on medical realities (like your doctor told you you needed to lose weight to manage blood lipids or hypertension, or it is difficult to walk a quarter mile or so) as opposed to cultural norms ("oh geez, I don't look like the models on TV or those six-pack ab Calvin Klein dudes"), then maybe it is something to think about.

    •  which is exactly, Denver11, what I am talking (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Denver11, mumtaznepal, claude

      about:

      That being said, "obesity" and "morbid obesity" as medically defined have real and actual negative health and longevity consequences.
      I am not talking about cultural norms as you so well describe, I am talking about the Obese territory.

      Btw, thank you for your comments re. the CAGE test.  V. interesting in this context.

      We Must DISARM THE NRA The next life you save may be ONE OF YOUR OWN!

      by SeaTurtle on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 12:32:15 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  When you get into the CAGE test, you are into (2+ / 0-)

        a WHOLE other set of issues.  Now you're talking about ADDICTION.  Now you're talking about more than just "eating less and exercising".  Now you're talking about more than just good nutrition.

        And THAT is what you don't get.

        Because if you gave the CAGE test to obese people, I will lay odds that a good 80-90% will give at least two answers if they are being honest with themselves.

        "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White -6.00, -5.18

        by zenbassoon on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 12:51:37 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  part of the benefits derived from being (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mahakali overdrive, FloridaSNMOM

      overweight may be due to the weight charts we rely upon to determine what is "normal". The charts themselves are inaccurate.  For example, from memory I think the old charts had a 6'2' male at a max of 180lbs while more recent assessments state weight may vary up to 220 or 240 lbs depending on individual BMI and activity level.

      It is the same way with calories.  Most Americans (from memory) can maintain weight on 1800-2200 calories per day but lumberjacks can consume up to 5000 calories a day and not gain weight, depending on their job on the crew

    •  This test doesn't work for weight. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mahakali overdrive

      Mostly because it would apply equally to people with eating disorders. Someone who is anorexic would answer yes to all of those, and thus be convinced he or she is right and should eat less and exercise more. Ditto with someone who is bulemic.

      And sure, I'd like to lose weight. I already hardly eat anything most days, I don't buy junk food, I rarely eat out. I make my own breads. I can't exercise more than I do, at least not and still breathe and stay out of the hospital. But I could answer yes to all of those, and then starve and exercise myself into my grave, leaving two kids behind. So no, drinking alcohol and eating are NOTHING alike.

      "Madness! Total and complete madness! This never would've happened if the humans hadn't started fighting one another!" Londo Mollari

      by FloridaSNMOM on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 06:09:59 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I guess that some heavy people have felt put upon (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SeaTurtle, Radiowalla, entlord, claude

    and dealt with in a harsh way after the  stuff with the Gov. of NJ. He still stinks for me.  And the way he dealt with the weight issue was not the example I would put forward to America, but I see it appeals to those who are full of indignation about their right to be as they wish and never have to be asked about it.  Your post is clear and to the point, deny reality at your peril, but sometimes it is too much for us and we hide from it until we can do battle again as we feel strong enough.  I can see how people can be upset by this issue on all sides.  The Gov. of NJ does not get a pass on it; however, because of his abrasive style and self styled battering ram personality.  He will always get what he gives.  And eating that donut on Letterman's show, well, it speaks for itself.  I still felt badly for him since he barely could squeeze into the chair provided and looked like he woud fall out.  Couldn't his advance staff had gotten him a larger chair like we now have in movie theaters for those who need them.  What I just said is called concern-trolling by the way.  I guess it means I have no right to show concern for the Gov. because it some how makes him look bad.  I'm not sure of this so if someone could tell me about the term concern-trolling I would appreciate it.  It is great we are so focused on this issue of our health, so thanks again.  By the way i need to lose 16-20lbs per my cardio person's advise.  It is very difficult for me and I want to say I did not intend to hurt heavy people with anything I said the Gov. of NJ not with standing.

    •  thanks for your post (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Radiowalla, claude, timjean2, mskitty

      I have had a long and tough struggle with weight and accepting my 'powerlessness' over the facts has been Step One, to borrow from another well known self help program.  Denial keeps us stuck from helping ourselves, imo.

      I really think that for some people it can be hugely hard to lose weight (doh!) but I am really convinced that it is worth persisting and trying to untangle the particular problem that it presents to us.  No matter how long it takes.

      I do think that Christie's weight is a political issue (watch this comment be hr'd...)  The reason I say that is because I do not hear any reason medically that his weight is beyond his control and given the huge health risks for his obvious obesity, it demonstrates a huge lack of judgement.

      Now on the other hand, if he said, 'ya know, I see it is an issue that needs work and I'm working on it.' and didn't flaunt donuts, then I would give him a pass.  And wish him well working on it.

      So yes, I understand your pity for him, but I don't share it.  He is such a jerk, I can't go there with him.

      Wishing you the best on your own road to better health as I continue to work on my path.

      Best,

      ST

      We Must DISARM THE NRA The next life you save may be ONE OF YOUR OWN!

      by SeaTurtle on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 12:43:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Let me fix that for you. (6+ / 0-)
    And I am saying that WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR OWN HEALTHCARE.

    And I am saying that WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR OWN UNEMPLOYMENT.

    And I am saying that WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR OWN OPPRESSION.

    There are some serious issues we need to talk about.

    This is not an individual issue, this is a national crisis.

    This is not about personal choices, this is about national policy.

    An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

    by OllieGarkey on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 12:34:53 PM PST

    •  It is about both-- personal choice and national (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SeaTurtle

      policy

    •  Boy, OG, did you make a flying leap here...... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mother Shipper

      do you not believe that you are responsible for your own health?

      If you want to distort my words that is up to you.  But it is a dishonest form of argument.  No once did I talk about healthcare, etc.

      This is not about personal choices, this is about national policy.
      Are you saying that a person defending their obesity is about national policy?  that it is not about personal choices?

      Give me a break.  Not worthy of you, OG.  

      We Must DISARM THE NRA The next life you save may be ONE OF YOUR OWN!

      by SeaTurtle on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 12:52:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  the First Lady is on point about the scourge (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SeaTurtle, OllieGarkey

        of teen obesity.  Hopefully her campaign will have some positive effects

      •  I've done community organizing in Appalachia. (7+ / 0-)

        The state is failing on a number of levels.

        It's failing to educate people to think critically, and it's failing to educate people about nutrition. It's failing to guarantee food security by failing to confront monsanto and big agro. It's failing to deal with the fact that most "food" being sold and consumed in this country isn't fit for human consumption.

        So let's take the case of a kid who eats a food stamp and school lunch diet.

        They turn 18, they're morbidly obese. Food wise, they've been a ward of the state. Yet as an individual, their weight problem is irreversible.

        That's a huge percentage of the cases you see in appalachia.

        The morbidly obese child is responsible for their nutritional and health choices?

        Obese adults generally become irreversibly obese when they are children.

        Once someone reaches a certain size, it takes operations and inpatient medical care to fix their weight problem. We have children reaching those sizes on a regular basis in this country. We're talking about years of expensive medical care.

        So no, I don't blame children when school lunches and food stamps make them fat. And I don't understand why you are.

        An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

        by OllieGarkey on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 03:25:25 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I don't mean to be harsh, and I'm sorry if I've (0+ / 0-)

        come off like a jerk today, I'm in a crabby mood.

        My wife has just told me I've been in a state today, and I know I got into it with you.

        So, I thought I say something.

        This is an important conversation to have, and it deserves better than polemics.

        An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

        by OllieGarkey on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 09:17:38 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  File under: Tell us something we don't know. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cassandracarolina, flo58, worldlotus

    Seriously.

    Do you think obese people don't know this?

    Do you think obese people do not try to do something?

    What pisses us off is stuff like this.

    WE. KNOW.

    We honestly do.

    If only I can come up with a good analogy...

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White -6.00, -5.18

    by zenbassoon on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 12:47:45 PM PST

  •  A narrow focus you have. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mahakali overdrive, Catesby

    Most people are aware of things that are bad for their health but still do them because they see their quality of life get better.

    Would you rather physically live to 95 having passed up all kinds of wonderful eating experiences, or live to 80 having experienced much more happiness along the way?

    Many weigh the pros and cons and make their own rational judgment about that and most are deserving of respect.

    Me - I'd rather my physical longevity take a back seat to my happiness along the way.

    Boehner Just Wants Wife To Listen, Not Come Up With Alternative Debt-Reduction Ideas

    by dov12348 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 01:00:52 PM PST

    •  yes, dov, and I will not argue with that choice (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dov12348, a2nite

      but if someone makes that choice, it does not mean that if they have really bad habits that make them obese, that they won't suffer a far greater risk of damage from being obese than someone who is not.

      If someone wants to be obese, then let them not pretend that bad habits are ok as many diaries on this site have done today.

      That's really all I am saying.

      We Must DISARM THE NRA The next life you save may be ONE OF YOUR OWN!

      by SeaTurtle on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 01:06:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  An exercise in absurdity (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SeaTurtle, Mother Shipper

      "I'd rather my physical longevity take a back seat to my happiness along the way."

      Living on top ramen and kraft mac 'n cheese isn't a "wonderful eating experience" in my book.

      In my book, delicious home cooked meals are wonderful eating experiences. And I get to experience them every day. Here's the kicker though: I'M LOSING WEIGHT WHILE EATING THIS WAY!

      The dirty secret: The key to weight loss is time and commitment, not daily starvation. I eat whatever I want, whenever I want, and since I can competently count calories I lose weight.

      I've heard all manner of absurd excuses to not give healthy eating and daily exercise a chance. Such absurdity shuts down a large part of my brain and I can't debate anything without becoming quite irate. I'll stop here, but know that you can eat what you want and be healthy provided you put EVEN THE SLIGHTEST EFFORT INTO IT.

      •  I eat well. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FloridaSNMOM, kkjohnson

        Almost everything in your post is a wrong assumption.

        Boehner Just Wants Wife To Listen, Not Come Up With Alternative Debt-Reduction Ideas

        by dov12348 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 04:48:46 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I ate junk when I was younger (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        FloridaSNMOM

        and was seriously underweight.  90lbs at 5'5"

        My doctor put my on a 2500 calorie a day diet, which I achieved by sitting down every night and eating a pan of Sara Lee brownies.  With frosting.

        Didn't help much.

        My thyroid packed in, and that helped a lot, and slowly the weight went on, even though I was receiving the proper level of medicine and my bloodwork was great.

        I was glad to put on weight.  Being a stick figure is a horrible experience.  

        But now I am overweight by about 30lbs.  Except now I am lucky to be married to a wonderful cook who makes home-cooked meals every night.

        Doesn't make a difference.  But I'm not complaining.  It doesn't hurt to sit on my bony butt anymore.

  •  U.S. out of my uterus (9+ / 0-)

    "Fat is a feminist issue."

    I still agree with that.

    The body is a private space. Health is part of that private space. People have the right to engage in all manner of activities, healthy or not, which may or may not impact their bodies in different ways if they so choose.

    I believe that deeply. And I don't like the stigmatization of people who are not of certain weights whatsoever.

    Some public health issues strike me as much more like private health issues. This would be one of them.

    Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

    by mahakali overdrive on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 01:06:55 PM PST

  •  I am afraid your message is being lost in reader (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SeaTurtle, Azazello, claude, mskitty

    indignation.  However Americans in general could generally stand to lose a few pounds, exercise a little more and generally pay more attention to our general health.

    Can we all agree on that?

  •  not telling people how to live? (3+ / 0-)
    If we are obese through poor food choices and lack of exercise and undue stress and lack of sleep, to name a few reasons, then it is incumbent on us to try to rearrange our LIFESTYLE in order to become healthier.  Period.
    explain to me how this isn't telling people how to live.

    "it's not the love that dies, but the understanding ways..." -Melissa Etheridge

    by birdbrain64 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 01:55:52 PM PST

    •  Not to mention not always possible to change. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mahakali overdrive, kkjohnson

      Do you know how many times doctors have told me to lower my stress level in the past 17 years? What was I supposed to do, foist my autistic son off on someone else and magically get myself out of poverty?? How do you change those stress levels?? Hobbies and exercise?? With what time? Before or after doing therapy with my son? Instead of cleaning or eating, or sleeping?  Lack of sleep, my son didn't sleep through the night until he was ten, and when he wasn't sleeping he'd try to escape. How do you increase sleep when you're also working full time to support your family? Give me a break, rearrange your lifestyle. Sure, if you're rich and lucky maybe.

      "Madness! Total and complete madness! This never would've happened if the humans hadn't started fighting one another!" Londo Mollari

      by FloridaSNMOM on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 06:19:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ummmm, (10+ / 0-)
    If we are obese through poor food choices and lack of exercise and undue stress and lack of sleep, to name a few reasons, then it is incumbent on us to try to rearrange our LIFESTYLE in order to become healthier.  Period.  The responsibility is on us to change enough so that we are not obese.
    Sleep also has a dramatic impact on weight.  Lack of has been shown to affect adrenals which love to hold onto fat.  So, adjustments to sleep must be made.  As in getting more and better.

    When I was obese, I was my husband's full time caregiver. Dan was on dialysis, among other health problems, for two years, after two years of disability because of a really bad doctor. Yes, the stress of keeping him alive every day was overwhelming. Yes, the stress of fighting for his SSDI and his health care was overwhelming. Yes, the stress of not knowing from one day to the next whether he would be in the hospital  (20 admits over the 24 months of disability before dialysis) was overwheming. Yes, the cortisol filled my body. But I could not change it. I loved Dan with my whole heart, and I would do it all again to have him hear for one more day, for one more hour.

    I never slept when Dan was in the house, because I needed to be awake in case he fell (which he had done before I realized how serious his balance issues were, and gave himself a serious concussion), so I slept from 7am, after he had been picked up for dialysis, and 1pm when he was returned. There was no choice, but again, more importantly, I would do it all again to have Dan here for on more day, for one more hour.

    The real problem is you have no clue what might be going on in the lives of those you presume to judge.

                       Not impressed,
                            Heather

    Torture is ALWAYS wrong, no matter who is inflicting it on whom.

    by Chacounne on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 01:57:23 PM PST

    •  ((((Chacounne)))) (6+ / 0-)

      You are so good at really just getting to the point, and I admit, I feel like so often, we see the world very similarly. Not always, but so often in your posts, this person shines out who really gets it.

      Impressed,
      M.O.

      Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

      by mahakali overdrive on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 02:11:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Your story with Dan reminded me (4+ / 0-)

      of the time I was caring for my sister who was under treatment for lung cancer.  It had spread to her brain and she was taking a lot of steroids for the swelling.  As a consequence, her appetite became voracious and she spent the day eating ice cream and cookies.  

      Guess who matched her bite for bite?  

      By the time she died, I had gained over 20 lbs.  

      Now that she is gone, five years later,  I am tending to myself.
      Because of my high cholesterol and intolerance to statins, I am trying to stick to a vegan diet.  Amazingly, it is proving to be a
      pleasant adventure.  So far.

      It's the Supreme Court, stupid!

      by Radiowalla on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 02:41:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  good luck, Rw (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Radiowalla

        We Must DISARM THE NRA The next life you save may be ONE OF YOUR OWN!

        by SeaTurtle on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 02:54:04 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  ((((((((((((((((Radiowalla)))))))))))))))))))))))) (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Radiowalla, Catesby

        I'm very sorry for your loss.

        Going vegan would be an adventure :) Yeah that it is a pleasant one :)

        Yup,  after Dan died I was able to lose that stress in many ways, even though studies have shown that losing a spouse is one of the most stressful things anyone can go through, and I lost 70 lbs in a few months.

                                  Hugs,
                                  Heather

        Torture is ALWAYS wrong, no matter who is inflicting it on whom.

        by Chacounne on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 03:33:58 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  You are both right and annoying at once (7+ / 0-)

    My main reason saying so is because for the obese, research shows that it is virtually impossible to take the weight off and keep it off (95% of folks who lose more than 50 lbs gain more than half of it back within 5 years). The only exception is weight loss surgery, which still has a lower success rate than you might imagine (less than 75% keep at least half the weight off) but dramatically better than any other method.

    I am 5'8 1/2". My highest weight ever was 335. I currently bounce between 135 and 140. I'm lucky - I had health insurance that paid all but $300 of my weight loss surgery and the associated testing, as well as disability insurance that paid me at 90% for my weeks off work. This is a rarity.

    For most obese or morbidly obese folks, there is psychological addiction associated with eating. Our brain is a strange organ, but basically what's happening is that it gets reprogrammed to give dopamine rewards to certain behaviors (gambling, sex, shopping, etc) which results in psychological addiction.

    In addition, our culture is full of foods with salt/fat/sugar layered, which are DESIGNED to trigger us to eat more.

    It is easy to say "just put down the donut and step away from the table". For most obese people, it's just not that simple. I tried for decades; I lost at least 100 lbs on 3 different occasions, but never got out of the obese category and never kept it off. I only had the surgery when I realized that I simply could not do it.

    So yeah, you are right in everything you say. However, you are not the first or the second nor the 50th to say it. Nor will it help one single person to read it here. Do you not think most obese people would love to lose the weight? Why do you think weight loss is the most common New Year's Resolution?

    Shame. One of the triggers that make many obese people turn to food for comfort. So there's that, too.

    •  my best wishes to you, iristhi, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite

      never once do I say that it cannot be incredibly hard, nor do I say that one should succeed.

      What I am saying is that it is denial to say that donuts, brownies, etc aren't part of the problem.

      That is all.  It is about the denial.  I think this is a highly complex and individual problem.  But it does no one any good not to accept the facts as a starting ground.

      And the facts are: Obesity is a health risk and too much bad food is causative of obesity.  And the most important think you mention is the addictive, triggering aspect of sugar, fat etc.

      A very complex issue.

      thank you for your post.

      We Must DISARM THE NRA The next life you save may be ONE OF YOUR OWN!

      by SeaTurtle on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 03:04:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think stories like this are worth sharing (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      it really is that important

      since it DOES happen and people who are interested should not be discouraged, especially by someone like you who is highly respected and HAS DONE THIS. My hope is that you are wrong about this:

      Nor will it help one single person to read it here.
      The easiest thing about anything hard is finding an excuse not to do it.
  •  Least popular comment ever (0+ / 0-)

    I'm sick of the excuses. I don't want your damn sob stories.

    If you can't lose the weight, you can't lose the weight. We are not judging you. We applaud you for trying, as so few make the effort. This story is not about calling you a fatty-fat-fat-fat, it's about reminding the young and able-bodied that they have a responsibility to maintain their health for the wellbeing of this entire country.

    I'm just sick of reading every excuse under the sun. No one is asking the 50 year old mother of 3 to lose weight, we are talking about the (relatively) young and able. This diary had a great point, and a bunch of old fat people ruined it by justifying their own weakness in making excuses.

    If this comment wasn't already unpopular enough, let me finish with the coup de grace: People have animal instincts and they don't give a single damn why you are fat. They will judge you all the same. You will never succeed in getting billions of people to abandon their propensity to judge just because you're sensitive about WHY you are fat.

    If you don't want to be the malefactor of human judgement, you have to change yourself. No excuses. We're all about rational discussion on this site, but it does no good to anyone to deny basic reality in favor of sugar-coated BS.

  •  Regarding Update Two (4+ / 0-)

    Actually, according to HIPAA, every single thing that has to do with people's health, including obesity, is "between doctor and patient." And you can lie all you want, but comments like "you can lie all you want," "[Christie] deserves the flak he is getting," "justifying BAD HABITS IS DENIAL," and "Being obese is not OK" are highly judgmental. You certainly have a right to say these things, but by asserting that you are not judgmental, you are simply denying reality.

    Thanks to denial, I'm immortal. -- Philip J. Fry

    by IamGumby on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 03:59:53 PM PST

  •  So what do you make of this study? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mahakali overdrive

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...

    Over half of the men remained stable (< 4% change in bodyweight) and served as the reference group; 31% gained weight and 13% lost weight. The 6445 men free from a history of coronary heart disease experienced 318 heart attacks, fatal and non-fatal, during the 6.5 years. Men who gained 4-10% bodyweight had the lowest rate of heart attack, although this was not significantly different from the stable group. The men who lost weight had an increased risk of heart attack, which after adjustment (for age, recall of doctor-diagnosed hypertension and diabetes and other coronary risk factors i.e. serum total cholesterol, blood pressure, social class, initial body mass index (BMI) and lung function (FEV1), and smoking status at screening and 5 years later), was of a similar level of risk to the stable group. The men who gained > 10% bodyweight had a significantly increased risk of a heart attack after the above adjustment (P < 0.05). When the effect of weight change was examined according to initial BMI, those men with a BMI < 25 kg/m2 who lost weight had a marginally increased relative risk of heart attack after full adjustment (P = 0.06), while men who were overweight (BMI 25-27.9 kg/m2) or obese (BMI > or = 28 kg/m2) showed no benefit from weight loss. A small amount of weight gain (4-10%) in the overweight or obese men was associated with decreased risk, whereas considerable weight gain (> 10%) was associated with increased risk, both findings reaching statistical significance in the overweight men (P < 0.05 and P < 0.001 respectively).

    CONCLUSIONS:
    Considerable weight gain (> 10%) in middle-aged men is associated with increased risk of a heart attack, but weight loss does not appear to reduce risk even in the overweight or obese.

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