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I will start off by saying I am an atheist. I was raised a Methodist cause that was the religion of my father's family. My mom's side of the family Catholic. So for funerals and weddings I've spent some time in a Catholic church. I got more than a few issues with the Catholic church. At least the church I went to I always felt very welcome and happy. A nice place.

Below the fold a little story and some hope for the next Pope.

I hope they try to get a Pope that is somewhat progressive. I know change will come slow, but just a little change.

I've been to that Catholic church a lot in the last few years cause my family members are passing away at an alarming rate. The Priest there is a wonderful man. I've talked to him a lot. A kind soul.

A few years ago he was fired.

I am so going to get this wrong, but I think there is a thing called the Latin Liturgical Rites. Put down in code these are the words of the Lord.

He changed them somewhat. Felt he was losing his his congregation, younger people, and that maybe making it more acceptable to younger folks might be a good idea. Well I guess some folks had too much free time on their hands and recorded him, sent those recordings to the Bishop in St. Louis and asked him to step down.

The Preist was a Vietnam vet. He worked for free, living off his military commission.

He didn't say this clearly, but I will, he told them to go fuck off. He would not recant. He would not change his ways.

I get you can't break the rules. But a Pope a little more understanding couldn't be a bad thing.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (15+ / 0-)

    When opportunity calls pick up the phone and give it directions to your house.

    by webranding on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 05:58:34 AM PST

  •  He Knew I Was An Atheist. My Family Had Been Going (12+ / 0-)

    to that church for more than 100 years. He knew this. He'd always take the time to come find me, engage me in conversation. It was always enjoyable.

    When opportunity calls pick up the phone and give it directions to your house.

    by webranding on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 06:03:26 AM PST

  •  Oh One Other Story (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Wee Mama, jayden, greengemini, BusyinCA

    and I hate to reply to my own post ....

    A few years ago, right before the Priest ran into trouble my grandfather passed away. He was 93. He had been going to that church for 93 years.

    After the funeral my mom said we were going to the church for lunch. I was like not me. Again I am an atheist, churches can tend to "creep" me out a little.

    She said no you are going.

    What seemed like an "Army" of like 12 folks cooked us and served us a meal for hours and hours.

    Have a Pope that is somewhat progressive.

    When opportunity calls pick up the phone and give it directions to your house.

    by webranding on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 06:33:31 AM PST

  •  Well, to clarify: (6+ / 0-)

    The Latin Liturgical Rites are the official words of the mass (Catholic's worship service).  For example, if you have been to a funeral mass, there is a prescribed form for that mass, including which prayers to say, the exact wording of those prayers, etc.

    Those rites are the same throughout the world - the language (English, Polish, etc.) may change, but the actual form and phrasing do not.

    No, a priest may not change the words during the actual mass. This would be akin to Justice Roberts deciding to change the words of the oath of office, or a judge deciding to change the oath of citizenship.  It's just not done.  Part of the beauty of the mass is that you know every Sunday, all over the world, the same prayers, the same readings, the same celebration is going on. It's very powerful.

    Now, outside of the mass, at a youth group meeting perhaps, it's acceptable to explain the parts of the mass or prayers using your own words. But not during - if you won't do the job the way it is prescribed to be done, then you can't be a priest.

    All of this is not to say that your concerns over misplaced priorities aren't true. They are. About 15 months ago, for example, the official words were changed for the first time in about 50 years, since the mass was allowed to be translated into the local language from Latin itself.  So now, instead of saying "and also with you" we say "and with your spirit" and other changes here and there.

    This was a several years-long effort to change the words, which are now supposedly more accurate in their meaning than the old words, which were, God forbid, meant to be understood by the people.

    Interestingly, even one of the National Catholic Register's reporters said last night that perhaps this will give us a new pope that will focus on the real issues of the church, instead of saying "and with your spirit".

    But, given the infighting, and that all the current cardinals were appointed by Benedict or JPII in his later, more conservative years, I can't see how a progressive gets picked because there really isn't one.

    Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence. Conservatism is distrust of the people tempered by fear. ~William E. Gladstone, 1866

    by absdoggy on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 07:01:06 AM PST

  •  Unfortunately, I don't see any liberalizing to be (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jayden, RiveroftheWest, SilentBrook

    likely. If anything, I'd guess we're either going to get one of the deeply conservative African/South Americans or an Opus Dei European. Especially since Mr. Ratzinger is available to "counsel" the cardinals prior to their cloistering.

    The last time the Republicans were this radical, they were working to elect former slaves to Congress. What a difference a century and a half makes!

    by jayjaybear on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 07:04:58 AM PST

  •  Time For Another Great Schism (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jayden, RiveroftheWest, Tinfoil Hat

    About the only time the Catholic Church changes anything substantively is when it is forced into confronting an existential crisis.  It's not quite there yet.

    Just look at the history of the Church over the last two millennia, going back to the very start of the Churh with the Council of Jerusalem when the issue of needing to following Judaic law was debated.  What's funny is that the Church itself is not following its own laws with regard to holding regular Church Councils.  At the Council of Constance, where the last Great Schism was ended and the Avignon Papacy terminated, a decree came out calling for Church Councils on a regular basis.  The Church has not followed that directive.  How can you trust an organization which doesn't even follow its own rules?  

    "Love the Truth, defend the Truth, speak the Truth, and hear the Truth" - Jan Hus, d.1415 CE

    by PrahaPartizan on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 07:05:50 AM PST

  •  I hope for a "less conservative" as well. (4+ / 0-)

    "Progressive"  at all is just pie in the sky at this point. As another commenter noted, many of the cardinals have been appointed by Benedict and JPII. A priest once told me how political the process is, as well. I'm afraid there aren't enough fans of John XXIII to have an impact (he initiated Vatican II). He was one pope that snuck in under the radar. He was just supposed to be a place holder until the cardinals could agree on who should be next. So it could happen...
    (Also,too, priests and sisters, like the one you describe, are the reason many people stay with the church despite the many reasons to leave.)

    Oh for crying out loud!

    by 4mygirls on Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 07:15:26 AM PST

  •  The only way the CC becomes more progressive (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jayden, RiveroftheWest

    in a true sense is if they give up on their idea that the Church itself is authoritative.  If they do that, they cease becoming Catholic.   If an individual decides that the Church is not the ultimate authority, they will probably convert to something else (i.e. Anglican).

    While there can and has been some overlap with church teachings and progressive causes, the historical foundation of the church rest on the idea that God's authority flows through the men of the Church.  That idea will NEVER be compatible with liberal thinking.

    BTW, I'm neither a liberal nor a catholic.

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