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That's the line of argument I hear all the time from conservatives who want to deny gays their rights: "I love the sinner, but I hate the sin". It's their defense against being called a bigot: "the KKK were bigots because they lynched blacks. We aren't violent towards gays and don't hate them, so we aren't bigots."

But if you really loved the sinner, wouldn't you pass a law that protects gay women from violence just like it protects every other woman? What does it show, besides hatred, that you would rather stall a law that protects all women from violence, than pass a bill that protects gay women from violence?

If anything, this action shows how dishonest ( a sin, by the way) that line of argument is by the conservatives. These guys are bigots. Plain and simple.


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Comment Preferences

  •  That is indeed a useful slogan for bigots. (9+ / 0-)

    I would say "if you think homosexuality is a sin, than don't engage in homosexual activities. However, I must follow my own conscience. Judge not, lest you be judged".

    What is truth? -- Pontius Pilate

    by commonmass on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 10:52:32 AM PST

    •  that's a good response (4+ / 0-)

      its a frustrating argument from me, but I think it's been exposed with this vote.

      •  the weakness of this argument, if Commonmass (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        will forgive me for quibbling (hey it is one of my few real talents) these folks are OT, not NT.  In their minds, if they see someone sinning, then it is their Christian duty to make him quit.  It is more obtrusive and aggressive as it relies upon the Israelite example of how they dealt with their neighbors.  They tend to go by, "if thy right hand offends thee, cut it off"  They see gays as their right hand  

    •  I would add the admonition of the mote and (3+ / 0-)

      the beam and should they continue, the parable of the Pharisee and Publican.  No need to waste that time in seminary at this point in my life

      •  There are so many stories from the Bible (0+ / 0-)

        The Pharisees.

        The temptation of Christ in the desert (Satan offers him political power and money).

        The moneychangers in the Temple.

        The beatitudes (blessed are the poor, the meek, etc.)

        The golden rule (treat others as you would be treated), which is another version of karma. What goes around comes around.

        "He is who without sin can cast the first stone."

        The widow's mite.

        The camel's eye.

        Turn the other cheek.

        And so on and so on.

        “If you misspell some words, it’s not plagiarism.” – Some Writer

        by Dbug on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 09:31:44 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  That's essentially what wife beaters say. (4+ / 0-)

    And when I hear that come out of someone's mouth, that's what I tell them they sound like.  "I love you Honey, but I can't stand the things you do.  That's why I hit you."  Give me a break.

  •  More likely, they're authoritarians who (3+ / 0-)

    want to exercise control. Relying on aggressive third parties to engender fear and provide a rationale for potential victims to stay home (within the protective dome) serves their interests well. The line between the cop and the crook is thin because one uses the other as a tool to exploit.
    Think of all those home security services. When would they get their revenue if there weren't a few burglars to validate that people should pay to be safe?

    Triangulation. It allows humans to exert force without revealing to the victim who's behind it.
    Some group or population is always needed to make an example of.

    "Protection" is a racket.

    We organize governments to deliver services and prevent abuse.

    by hannah on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 11:09:19 AM PST

    •  I hate the security alarm ads (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      So your neighbor's house is broken into when he is not there and some stuff is taken.  So buy better locks and a yappy dog.  Most burglars can take down your average system in 3 minutes.

      I also hate the one where the guy says he lost all his tax info and family pics in a burglary.  So they left the TV and computer and took your photo albums and tax returns?

  •  If these bigots saw some movies with girl on girl (4+ / 0-)

    action, maybe they'd begin to love the sinners AND the sin.

    Or at least they'd lighten up a little and start to mind their own business.

    •  WHo do you think BUYS those movies????? (0+ / 0-)

      The lure of the forbidden....

      The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

      by irishwitch on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 11:35:37 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  exactly; the same ones who slink into the city (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        and hires two girls so he can watch.  local cops once published the names and addresses of the johns they caught but stopped that after a couple of weeks with the "wrong" names showing up in the list

        •  AN acquaintancw ho wa a dancer at (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Cassandra Waites, Calamity Jean

          a gentleman's club said the ones most likely to grope and expect free sex --and the worst tippers--were the judges, lawyers, doctors and minsiters.  SHe hated the suits.  But the guys who came in looking like clean rednecks were polite and tipped well.

          I've found this to be true of men who use libraries.  As a ref librarian, I fidn the guys who wanted to see the WSJ, Bests's, Standard and Poor's, etc--were uniformly entitled jerks who treated women (with at elast one M.S>) like dirt. The guys who came in in greasy old jeans with ballcaps, looking like Hell's ANgels would kick them out for not meeting their minimal dress code, and askig for chuilton's or books on hunting or taxidermy, were so polite with beautiful manners.  It was always, "Ma'am, could help me please?" and they would thank you when they eft.

          The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

          by irishwitch on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 03:29:21 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  "Mam" is something I was taught to refer to all (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            adult women by as an honorific and I still do so to this day though it annoys some of the twentysomethings who are 40 years my junior as they seem to think it implies they are old instead of a term of respect

  •  They got this from the Roman Catholic Church. (4+ / 0-)

    " Love the sinner hate the sin."  We never accepted this and never will.  

    •  don't forget the Protestants also do well (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      enhydra lutris, Cassandra Waites

      with this concept as the Puritans fled religious tolerance in Holland (their kids were growing up to be reasonable on religious matters) and in the New World, enforcing their dour theology on neighboring colonies.  (The most famous was a series of raids on towns that had Maypole dances, 2 sins in one)  

  •  They Don't Make Arguments. (3+ / 0-)

    They say things but if you disprove what they're saying they'll simply say something else, or reject factuality, because their rules are all that's important to them.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 11:41:58 AM PST

  •  problem is that leads to the next step in their (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cassandra Waites

    thinking; once you admit that it is a sin, though they love you, they also expect you to repent, do penitence and accept your punishment  i.e. accepting violence as a byproduct of your lifestyle.

    this is sort of like your parent getting ready to spank you with the old saw "this hurts me more than it does you"  I used to yell "Wanna bet?"

    So once they "love" you as a sinner, it is their Christian duty to be sure you are adequately punished and given an opportunity to mend your ways.  Get the trick now?  Once you admit you are a sinner and that what you do is a sin, the rest is automatic

  •  Oh, they [mostly] want to be nice (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    coolelegans, Cassandra Waites

    ... which is why they want the state to impose their morals on everyone else instead of owning their bullying instincts.  When society & the political culture can be repressive & judgmental, that leaves repressive & judgmental individuals free to be personally pleasant and ignore injustices, because they're satisfied with the way things are.  One of the reasons they're so awful these days is that they don't want to have to defend or justify their political preferences.

    This is why I don't get sucked into the but-they're-such-nice-people perspective... of course they're nice when they're comfortable in their dominance.

    "Conservative principles" are marketing props used by the Conservative Movement to achieve political power, not actual beliefs. -Glenn Greenwald

    by latts on Sat Feb 23, 2013 at 12:16:53 PM PST

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