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The New York Times goes past demonizing kids with autism to look at the broader causes of gun violence.

A focus on mass murder, while critical, does not get at the broader issue of gun violence, including the hundreds of single-victim murders, suicides, nonfatal shootings and other gun crimes that occur daily in the United States. And focusing on the mentally ill, most of whom are not violent, overlooks people who are at demonstrably increased risk of committing violent crimes but are not barred by federal law from buying and having guns.

These would include people who have been convicted of violent misdemeanors including assaults, and those who are alcohol abusers. Unless guns are also kept from these high-risk people, preventable gun violence will continue.

A bout of depression might mean you're unable to buy a handgun, but a bout of denting someone's face? Eh... probably not.
Many people convicted of violent misdemeanors were originally charged with felonies but then convicted of lesser charges because of plea bargains. And research shows that people who have been convicted of any misdemeanors and who then legally buy a handgun are more likely to commit crimes after that gun purchase than buyers with no prior convictions.
Add in a system that ignores alcohol abuse, and the result is violent drunks have no trouble getting guns.

Alex Kotlowitz isn't as concerned about who causes violence, as the cost it inflicts on everyone.

We report on the killers and the killed, but we ignore those who have been wounded or who have witnessed the shootings. What is the effect on individuals — especially kids — who have been privy to the violence in our cities’ streets?

I ask this somewhat rhetorically because in many ways we know the answer. We’ve seen what exposure to the brutality of war does to combat veterans. It can lead to outbursts of rage, an inability to sleep, flashbacks, a profound sense of being alone, a growing distrust of everyone around you, a heightened state of vigilance, a debilitating sense of guilt. ...

As Tim O’Brien says, it gets in your bones. In the wake of Hadiya Pendleton’s shooting, we’ve talked about stiffer gun control laws, about better policing, about providing mentoring and after-school programs, all of which are essential. But missing from this conversation is any acknowledgment that the violence eats away at one’s soul.

Come inside for some slightly (but only slightly) less violent punditry...

Leonard Pitts looks at a brief act of violence, against a very small person, and wonders if it has something bigger to say about our society.

Shut that “nigger baby” up.

Those were the alleged words of the alleged man in the next seat just before he allegedly slapped the baby with an open palm, leaving a scratch below his right eye. ...

Hundley’s attorney, Marcia Shein, promises her client is no racist. In so doing, she embraces the cognitive dissonance which so often afflicts Americans when they are confronted with the ponderous idiocy of tribal hatred. Michael Richards, you will recall, said the same thing after a “comedy” routine in which he hurled the N-word at a heckler and suggested the man should be lynched. Mel Gibson swore he wasn’t an anti-Semite shortly after he cursed the Jews and accused them of starting all the world’s wars.

Pitts' article is your Go Read It All pick of the week.

Ali Soufan reminds us that fiction is... fiction, and the fact is torture doesn't work.

I watched “Zero Dark Thirty” not as a former F.B.I. special agent who spent a decade chasing, interrogating and prosecuting top members of Al Qaeda but as someone who enjoys Hollywood movies. As a movie, I enjoyed it. As history, it’s bunk.

...

In fact, torture led us away from Bin Laden. After Mr. Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times, he actually played down the importance of the courier who ultimately led us to Bin Laden. Numerous investigations, most recently a 6,300-page classified report by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, have reached the same conclusion: enhanced interrogation didn’t work. Portraying torture as effective risks misleading the next generation of Americans that one of our government’s greatest successes came about because of the efficacy of torture. It’s a disservice both to our history and our national security.

Maybe instead of worrying about how kids are influenced by comic books / video games / cartoons / adult freak out topic of the week, we should worry about how jingoistic glorification of torture affects national policy.

And to finish this prolonged riff...

Stefan Tulty talks about how his time reporting crime fact gave him plenty of material for writing crime fiction.

Dana Milbank does violence only to the hypocrisy of GOP governors.

“It is not a white flag of surrender,” Florida Gov. Rick Scott said.

This was technically true: Scott did not wave a banner of any color when he announced Wednesday that he wants Florida to expand Medicaid, a key piece of Obamacare.

But make no mistake: Scott, a tea party Republican and outspoken critic of the law, was laying down arms in defeat. ...

Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder declared this month that the Medicaid expansion “makes sense for the physical and fiscal health of Michigan.” And in Arizona, Republican Gov. Jan Brewer, a hardened Obama foe, justified her decision to embrace the Medicaid expansion with language similar to that used by the law’s proponents. ...

In Florida, the dwindling band of tea-partiers was furious with Scott, calling him a Benedict Arnold. But the cause he supposedly betrayed has already lost.

Of course, Milbank is a member of the No, Really, I'm a Reasonable Republican League, and his downplaying the Tea Party pandemic may be just wishful thinking, but watching Rick Scott eat humble pie is kind of pleasing. Not as pleasing as not having Rick Scott around at all, but pleasing.

Jon Han reviews Al Gore's latest book and finds some interesting ideas.

Inevitably, there’s a lot here about the two signature Gore preoccupations — climate change and technological innovation — but what really makes “The Future” worth reading is two newer ideas.

The first is the premise. Gore believes we are living in a “new period of hyper-change.” The speed at which our world is changing, he argues, is unprecedented, and that transformation is the central reality of our lives. ...

Gore’s second big argument is based on this first one. If you buy his view that we are living through a mind-blowing economic and social transformation, you are likely to conclude, as he does, that we need a correspondingly ambitious political response. Here again, he is thinking in ALL CAPS. He believes that business has become truly global (a phenomenon he dubs, a la New York Times columnist Tom Friedman, “Earth, Inc.”) and that the nation-state is becoming irrelevant. We don’t need merely a robust national reaction to hyper-change, we need an international one, and Gore thinks that needs to be led by the United States or it won’t happen at all.

I've not read the book (yet) but I have to say I go in in complete disagreement with this central premise. Our world isn't one of "hyper-change," it's one of wringing the last few drops from ideas that are decades, if not centuries old. Is it chaotic? Yes, but that's because there is no strong new wave driving events, just a sea of static. Says me.

But the climate? That really is changing.

John Timmer looks at three talks on climate and extreme weather. From record heat to hurricanes and drought, these three mini-articles in an article provide a good overview of current thinking on many areas of climate change.

Originally posted to Devil's Tower on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 02:53 AM PST.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  what a stupid useless Congress we/endure (16+ / 0-)

    clime parches on. terms: ocean rise, weather re-patterning, storm pathology, drout-famine, acceptance of nature.

    by renzo capetti on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 03:02:06 AM PST

  •  Rick Scott is doing what I'm calling the (16+ / 0-)

    "prodigal son shtick." That's when public officials threaten dire consequences and drastic actions and "hard choices" expecting to get accolades and praise when they back off.

    "Bark worse than bite" is dubiously acceptable in dogs, in public officials it should be cause for removal.

    We organize governments to deliver services and prevent abuse.

    by hannah on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 03:21:50 AM PST

    •  I think the salient fact is that Rick is (8+ / 0-)

      going to be up for re-election soon, no?

      I suspect that Rick looked at a few polls and saw the hand-writing on the wall.

      The elevation of appearance over substance, of celebrity over character, of short term gains over lasting achievement displays a poverty of ambition. It distracts you from what's truly important. - Barack Obama

      by helfenburg on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 04:42:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That rationale carries with it the presumption (6+ / 0-)

        that this politician is responsive to public direction. I don't think so. What this politician is is sly, like a fox, as many instinct-driven people are. But, the only direction of the instinct-driven is self-interest which, because they are generally unaware of where true self-interest lies, as often as not leads them wrong.
        Putting instinct-driven people into public office is a bad idea. We are lucky if they end up being do-nothings.

        Why do they keep getting elected? Well, they're grandstanders, willing to repeat whatever someone tells them to say and not good for much of anything else. Our private corporations seem to have fallen into the habit of promoting such people up and out. A golden parachute into some state capital or Washington is cheaper than keeping them on. Look at Willard. There's a good example of a whole lot of people not wanting to admit they made a mistake in even hiring him.
        Maybe it's because deception gets them in the door and nobody likes admitting they were fooled. Look how hard it is for the US to admit that Dubya and his Neocons made a fool of us.

        We organize governments to deliver services and prevent abuse.

        by hannah on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 05:04:55 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  we never learn the lessons of our past (26+ / 0-)

    We continue with COIN strategies that were proven to be ineffective or even counterproductive in VN and we institute interrogation techniques that the Allies rejected in WWII.  Allied intelligence determined that Nazi interrogation techniques at the worst damaged or killed intransigent prisoners w/o gaining any information or else the information that was gained was either fabricated either to throw off the Nazis or simply to stop the torture.

    When we began capturing top German brass, we placed them under guard in villas and castles, frequently their former digs, and plied them with wine and cigars and had our guys express admiration to the Germans about what tactical geniuses they were.  Many of the generals already hated "Corporal" Hitler for interfering with their military operations and for not having been trained in the Prussian military education system and they were all too happy to explain what they wanted to do vs what they had had to do and in the process revealed many military secrets they would probably have taken to their graves under torture    

    •  Learned more from a good game of chess (17+ / 0-)

      http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/...

      Back then, they and their commanders wrestled with the morality of bugging prisoners’ cells with listening devices. They felt bad about censoring letters. They took prisoners out for steak dinners to soften them up. They played games with them. “We got more information out of a German general with a game of chess or Ping-Pong than they do today, with their torture,” said Henry Kolm, 90, an MIT physicist who had been assigned to play chess in Germany with Hitler’s deputy, Rudolf Hess.

      I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

      by JML9999 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 04:40:30 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes. The fact that torture can and probably often (9+ / 0-)

      does generate unreliable information because, duh, the tortured person makes stuff up in order to end the torture, is usually lost in the discussion.  It appears to be assumed that the only bad thing about torture is that it is inhumane and we (collectively Americans because this is what our government appears to believe) don't care about that anymore, commitment to humane treatment NO LONGER an American value) but it always leads to useful, truthful information.  But that assumption is, of course, fallacious.

      The elevation of appearance over substance, of celebrity over character, of short term gains over lasting achievement displays a poverty of ambition. It distracts you from what's truly important. - Barack Obama

      by helfenburg on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 04:46:55 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Jihadis are not German generals (0+ / 0-)

      To compare the two is ludicrous.  The cultural differences were almost non-existent between WW II interrogators and German generals.

      Does waterboarding work?  No, probably (usually ) not.  You get more false "answers" from the individual just to make the torture stop.

      But.. Concentrating on the most extreme torture techniques ignores the fact that more subtle, long-term techniques are used effectively all the time.  Deprivation followed by reward can work eventually.  Rewards/threats regarding a detainee's family.. good copy/bad cop.. and, yes even lavishing prisoners with luxuries like the German generals.  And that is  not to even mention the array of drugs available to interrogators these days.  Over time, one or more of these techniques works.

      So, while ticking bomb, Jack Bauer style interrogations rarely work, most people will break eventually.

      And, I think that was the point the movie Zero Dark Thirty was trying to make.

      •  and which of these techniques would you suggest (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        annominous, DSPS owl

        for the 12 year old we imprisoned at Gitmo or the cab driver who drove one of bin Laden's lieutenants one time?
        You are ignoring the fact our net was very broad and very ineffective.  As many as 40% of "jihadists" at Gitmo had no connection to al Qaeda and were not radicalized before their incarceration.  Which techniques would have elicited information from the ones who were sold to the CIA by actual Jihadists?

        If you wish to use enhanced techniques of interrogation, might I suggest these Jihadists be considered POWs? Or maybe as military prisoners such as the Nazi hierarchy (wait we did not torture Goering or Schleicher) or as criminal detainees.  Can we discard the polite fiction of "enemy combatants" whereby they are basically in legal Limbo with no acknowledged rights.  After all, the enhanced techniques you mention worked so well with Jose Padilla didn't it?    

        •  Hey.. no one said you can get blood from a turnip (0+ / 0-)

          and a BIG part of gaining intelligence through interrogation is knowing who to interrogate.

          I'm ambivalent regarding declaring everyone caught POW's.  Too many legal constructs come into play as soon as you do that.   In practical terms, it is too easy to get around that anyway.  Pick up an Al Quaeda suspect in Yemen and you make sure he simply becomes a Yemen/Egyptian/Saudi detainee - no formal custodianship by the US.  But, of course, with CIA folks participating in the interrogation.

          As long as Obama can target any individual (including US citizens) anywhere in the world for execution, interrogations that don't rise to the level of violating international treaties are pretty much ok with me.

          •  yep, extreme renditions where we depend (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            417els

            on regimes that we publicly revile for human rights violations to "persuade" people to talk with us, such as the Canadian citizen who was picked up by mistake and spent a year in a Syrian "stress" cell.

            That is why we are universally loved around the world; we know how to subcontract

  •  Governor Ooops of Texas will be the true test (6+ / 0-)

    on capitulation regarding Obamacare

    I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

    by JML9999 on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 04:44:40 AM PST

  •  So, screenings would not allow them to take... (6+ / 0-)

    ....prior arrest records into account?

    If not, I'm not even sure of the point.

    "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

    by Bush Bites on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 04:53:26 AM PST

    •  A lifetime ban on owning a gun for a drunk (4+ / 0-)

      driving conviction might ease two problems, fewer drunk drivers and/or a lot less gun violence and suicide.

      Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a Republican. But I repeat myself. Harry Truman

      by ratcityreprobate on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 05:03:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Any "arms reduction" is going to take more... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tb mare, alice kleeman

      ...than "better" screening of individuals. I heard on some talk radio show on XM earlier this weekend that people such as Adam Lanza wouldn't be "screenable" because demonstrated mental difficulty (I'm sure there's a more precise DSM-IV  descriptor, but it would distract from my intent here: bear with me) is assessed over time. We don't "label" teens and young adults as (fill in the blank) definitively because, well we typically don't have enough time to make that assessment early enough to slap a "label" on a young adult. Probably not a "label" that would pass legal muster. I'm not sure the Va. Tech or Aurora shooter would have been "identified" early enough either.

      At the risk of advocating "expansive coddling", we make it too difficult for troubled and marginalized people to exist. With some ongoing support, Adam Lanza might have been "the weird guy" who fixes minor computer issues for the rest of his life. He probably never would have been able to "pull his own weight" his entire life, but he might have gotten through early adult hood at worst being an irritating person who made people uncomfortable..but very much alive. We do that for some (not nearly enough) people with profound mental and physical challenges. This for me is simply another negative consequence of income and asset inequality. No Financial Elites "value" minimizing the potential future harm of Lanzas and the probably thousands like him, so they spin the wheel and bet heavily that when "Lanza happens", it won't penetrate their custom built security and social cocoons. The rest of us pay for that "externality" when it happens.

      Nothing is foolproof. But we are developing far too many cracks for people to fall through because far too few "successful" people's assessment of "worth" vetos what might be best for the broader society.

      When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative. --Martin Luther King Jr.

      by Egalitare on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 06:01:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Judgement is always necessary (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tb mare, Egalitare, Janet 707, SoCalSal, KenBee

      When mucking about with rules that might be lumped under a Department of Pre-Crime, it is important to consider how a person might get convicted of a prior crime.  Take juvenile crime, for example.  We accept that adolescents can make bad judgements and form attachments to people who will lead them into a criminal act, and straighten out when their more mature brains finally catch up with their growing size and strength.  There are exceptions, of course, but that approach to most juvenile crime seems reasonable to me.  Then consider the problem of a racist justice system.  I can think of a couple of instances in my life where a person of color came away with a conviction for a violent act, when a reasonable assessment of the event would have deemed his act to be self defense.  Somebody has to apply judgement to sort those things out.  How we do that is a major question, but the need to do it should not be.

    •  Felons can still legally buy guns (4+ / 0-)

      The inability of a felon to legally buy a gun is called a "Federal Firearms Disability." But not to worry, there's a cure for that.

      13 states automatically return gun rights to felons convicted of non-violent crimes. If you're convicted of a violent crime, you can petition the court to restore your gun rights. In states where it isn't automatic, you can petition the courts. Chances you'll get your gun rights restored a pretty good.

      The NYT did an article on this in 2011:

      Felons Finding It Easy to Regain Gun Rights

      Here's a few of the people they highlighted:

      William James Holisky II

      Mr. Holisky has a long history of stalking and terrorizing women. A Minnesota judge reinstated Mr. Holisky’s firearms rights last year, just six months after he got out of prison for firing a shotgun into the house of a woman he had dated. She and her son were inside.

      Jason C. Keller

      Mr. Keller, disqualified because of a 1997 burglary conviction, had his gun rights restored in Washington in 2006. In 2010, he fired several shots at a woman’s house while she stood outside with one child and another was sleeping inside.

      Erik H. Zettergren

      Mr. Zettergren, who had two felony convictions on his record, got his gun rights back in Washington in December 2004. He quickly retrieved several guns he had given a friend for safekeeping. Two months later,
      Mr. Zettergren shot and killed a man at point blank range.

      Charles C. Hairston

      Mr. Hairston shot and killed a man with a shotgun in 1971. After serving 18 years in prison for first-degree murder, he was convicted in 1995 of corruption of a minor, another felony. An Ohio judge restored
      his gun rights in 2010.

    •  The problem with arrest records (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DSPS owl, alice kleeman

      Even honest cops make mistakes, and ask any experienced demonstrator or minority group member about malicious arrests.

      Freedom isn't free. Patriots pay taxes.

      by Dogs are fuzzy on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 09:52:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Airplane guy isn't just a racist... (6+ / 0-)

    ...he's an infant abuser.

    He should be locked up for a long time.

    "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

    by Bush Bites on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 04:58:38 AM PST

  •  Where did I hear that before? (8+ / 0-)
    He believes that business has become truly global (a phenomenon he dubs, a la New York Times columnist Tom Friedman, “Earth, Inc.”) and that the nation-state is becoming irrelevant.
    Oh, yeah:

    "Michael Moore, who was filming a movie about corporate welfare called 'Capitalism: A Love Story,' sought and received incentives."

    by Bush Bites on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 05:03:19 AM PST

  •  Angry habitual drunks who plead down... (10+ / 0-)

    ...to misdemeanors. That's probably a target market for gun sales.  

    That's not snark. I bet some aggregator of data offers such a list.

    When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative. --Martin Luther King Jr.

    by Egalitare on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 05:04:51 AM PST

  •  There IS hyper change (9+ / 0-)

    The examples are legion, but the one that comes immediately to mind is automation and the disruptive effects it will have on our labour force, not just in the U.S., but in the world. Already, Apple is bringing Mac production back to the U.S.  That won't bring a lot of jobs though, because much of the production will be automated. As U.S. factories start reclaiming production from China, China will endure even more unrest than it already does. Automation and robotics will affect everything. All those gas station mini marts you see? Soon they will be stocked by robots, and small time robbers will need to find new places to rob because the automated systems aren't going to be giving any money to anybody. The list goes on. As a nation we will need to reconsider how to prepare for this change to the labor market.

  •  My cousin (21+ / 0-)

    Was shot to death years ago. The repercussions of that event was staggering. It led his brother to commit suicide. My uncle and aunt divorced. He became an alcoholic. Depression ran rampant through my circle of cousins. My mother had to help keep the family together.

    Tragic stuff.

    http://callatimeout.blogspot.com/

    by DAISHI on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 05:14:40 AM PST

  •  I would disagree. (4+ / 0-)
    Our world isn't one of "hyper-change," it's one of wringing the last few drops from ideas that are decades, if not centuries old.
    My partner and I went through two weeks without high-speed internet recently, courtesy of Time Warner Cable, and it felt like having lost a limb.

    Fuck me, it's a leprechaun.

    by MBNYC on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 05:19:33 AM PST

    •  TWO WEEKS? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JML9999, MBNYC

      Of course, if my internet goes down, I always have my tablet which connects through cell networks.
      I bought it after 5 days with no internet. I can't imagine two weeks!

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 05:37:13 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Sitting in church yesterday (0+ / 0-)

      I decided that the solution to the catholic mess is internet church.  Get rid of majority of money sucking buildings that dry up community resources because of the tax free status and just have internet masses 24/7.  Take the hierarchy down a peg by realizing we don't really need them.  The expense of supporting them and their lifestyles, vestments, doings, support structures can be gone and the bare bones work of the real church can continue.  Just have one church in population centers for centralization and voila, money and priest problem solved.

      Everyone! Arms akimbo!

      by tobendaro on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 05:50:45 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  sounds like my solution to poverty and unemploymen (7+ / 0-)

        Since CEOs have taken companies down the drain and still got their bonuses and golden parachutes, success or skill is irrelevant. Also it makes no sense to accumulate more cash than 50 years of riotous living can burn, so after each CEO reaches that mark, say $100M, he is compulsorily retired and someone else gets the job and so on until everyone in the US has a job or $100M      

      •  That would mean someone would have (0+ / 0-)

        to guarantee broadband access to every home in the country.  That would mean a large (very large - huge, even) investment by the federal government, considering if such coverage were profitable it would have been done already by private enterprise.  Then if certain homes weren't able to pay the bill for access, there would need to be government subsidies to help or completely pay the bill.

        Despite the fact that such federal spending would be an investment in future acccessibility not only for church services, but educational services, energy conservation services, community and business organization and a host of other programs/services that depend on connectivity, congress will never spend the money for infrastructure that won't be a sop to privatization as long as Republicans (and Democrats who depend on campaign money and perks from current service providers) control one or both houses.

        "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

        by SueDe on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 09:56:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Gun crazy (7+ / 0-)

    Friends from my left wing /border hippy days that drifted toward Libertarianism and even ended up voting for Bush did so because of the greatest love of all...a love of guns..This love and the fear someone will take them makes people that had a touch of paranoia easy pickings for the Alex Jones and NRA

    •  Maybe someday we will long for the good old days (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      historys mysteries, shaharazade

      when "only" 100k + were shot (one every 5 minutes), because people like you describe could easily get us up over 1/2 million shot per year or one every minute!

      Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

      by DefendOurConstitution on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 05:45:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The thing I find strange is (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Jo Bob, salmo, Dogs are fuzzy, DSPS owl, KenBee

        Around 1965 my brother and I would steal money from our drunken dads pants if he had any left after his Friday night poker games .We would buy guns from the ads in The American Rifleman. Included in our purchases was the 12 dollar Italian rifle Oswald used to kill President Kennedy.We shot our
        Pinocchio doll with it in a wagon pulled by our poor dog to see if the shots were possible...seemed to be...but my point is we had guns,other kids had guns but the idea of shooting people just didn't enter the picture....fist fight sure but shooting people....something else is causing this besides all these guns

        •  used to in school we would duck hunt in the (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Dogs are fuzzy, KenBee

          morning and go to school with the gun racks full.  Never any problem with them the same as our habitually carrying knives.  Growing up on a farm, you quickly learned if you had your pants on, you had a pocketknife.  Most of us carried two or three knives as a matter of routine without any thought.    

        •  You forgot to say "guns don't kill ..." In 1965 (3+ / 0-)

          we did not have anywhere near one gun for every person in our Country.  In addition, the guns were not able to fire dozens of rounds in a couple of seconds (semi-automatics were rare as most were rifles, as you describe, or revolvers).  Most importantly, gun owners were really proud of their safety training and insisted that safety rules we more important than the firearms themselves (I know as I was taught to shoot in the 1960s by several kind gun owners), these days it seems like many gun owners are just as proud of their ignorance on gun safety as Republicans are of their ignorance on so many issues - why else would we have so many "accidental" shootings? (the gun owners I knew in the past called these negligence shootings).

          Sure it is true that our society has changed (and not for the better in some ways), but saying that the horrendous gun violence problem we have is only societal and it has nothing to do with the fact that guns have proliferated greatly, laws have been weakened, and the NRA's gun Cult advocates - and distributes - more guns to everyone as a way to reduce violence.

          Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

          by DefendOurConstitution on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 07:16:58 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Number of guns 1965 (0+ / 0-)

            You may be right on that but we bought a M1 and a M 1 carbine,a Luger and a 45 via the mail.We also bought a silencer kit ( big fans of the man from Unkle)"""we never got into trouble till my mom was forced to get a job.Then things went a bit overboard...The biggest danger in our neighborhood was Tina the Boker a Korean War dog returned to the world.Tied up on a 100 foot chain,She was a force of nature and if you even were 99 feet away you were hers,

  •  WaPo (11+ / 0-)
    A bipartisan group of senators is on the verge of a deal that would expand background checks to all private firearms sales with limited exemptions, but significant disagreements remain on the issue of keeping records of private gun sales, according to aides familiar with the talks.

    An agreement would be a bold first step toward consideration of legislation to limit gun violence in the wake of the mass shootings at a Connecticut elementary school in December and comes as the Senate Judiciary Committee is expected this week to begin considering new proposals to limit gun violence.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by Greg Dworkin on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 05:31:49 AM PST

    •  It's ridiculous (11+ / 0-)

      to try and suppress keeping records of gun sales if you're have to register your gun anyway.

      Democrats say that keeping records of private sales is necessary to enforce any new law and because current federal law requires licensed firearm dealers to keep records. Records of private sales also would help law enforcement trace back the history of a gun used in a crime, according to Democratic aides. Republicans, however, believe that records of private sales could put an undue burden on gun owners or could be perceived by gun rights advocates as a precursor to a national gun registry.
      We have to keep records of car sales and house sales and drug sales, etc.  That doesn't seem to be an "undue burden" to most people.

      “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

      by skohayes on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 05:45:45 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  so a thought experiment (5+ / 0-)

        what if it took 'no registry' to pass the house?

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 06:03:58 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'll take it. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LilithGardener, KenBee

          I'm not of the "all or nothing crowd", I'm one of the "it's a start" crowd.

          “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

          by skohayes on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 06:37:09 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  It would be the ultimate Village "Solution" (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tb mare, LilithGardener, luckydog

          "Both sides gave and found a solution in the middle." I can hear Cokie Roberts triumphantly just short of shouting that some Monday morning.

          No records keeping means avoiding potential liability. And no "downward pressure on future sales projections." And we absolutely need some liability assessed and "downward pressure on future sales projections."

          When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative. --Martin Luther King Jr.

          by Egalitare on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 06:37:44 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I have suggested exactly that (0+ / 0-)

          and have suggested a way to be able to backtrack the gun to the new owner w/o this being a de facto gun registry.

          Whine all you want, that is what it is perceived to be: a de facto gun registry....theme courtesy of the NRA and flak/hack media.  
               This theme, the de facto gun database would be exactly the kind of flawed database we have in many circles, the no fly list being an obvious one, and it provides much of the energy that can derail this basic good proposal. The gun database is not a complete gun registry but is obviously one gathering data from new purchases/transfers. It is strongly opposed by gun owners etc., and an obvious hook for the NRA fear mongering  That's how it is perceived, that's how it and anything with it will be attacked.

          I think the national gun ssn database is exactly the poison pill dirt bags (ie: lying politicians R and L, NRA hacks) on both sides WANT in this, for this to fail so they can continue to fear monger and fund raise over this issue. Need i say.....yeah, here, definetly I do: not all people on both sides here are dirt bags.

             Unfortunately the fact that they who are working on this already have included it means they are too dumb for their responsibilities or they are insincere hacks.

          I don't believe either side really wants this to change, but we will see.
           Too cynical maybe...I hope so.

          .........................

          Track the applicant not the gun. A continued path of searchable applications is what is wanted...sub rosa dealer/straw purchaser goes to every gun store and applies for one purchase is a tactic of some straw purchasers..this applicant tracking is necessary...the gun ssn database tracking is not necessary and will prevent, politically, this change from happening.

          If a gun is recovered at a crime scene, it can be searched for at the FFL dealer's records, with a warrant, easily obtained.    
               The FFL is already required to maintain these records as part of their FFL status.  Gun tracking problem solved, when necessary, and no central database to be hacked for vandal points or profit.   Legislation passed less strongly opposed.
               The central gun ssn database is also a problem because after the straw purchasers are blocked they(criminals) will pay a lot more for a list of gun purchasers....and remember the names and addresses were published by that newspaper? And yesterday someone here advocated again in the internet comment screed for a public database of guns and gun owners, gee, imagine there could be opposition to a similar sounding proposal...

           To get this done, or anything related, successfully, will require exactly that: eliminate the poison pill of the national de facto gun registry database...or else we can continue to play 'Why do Republicans hate people' theater and get nothing done.

          So what's it going to be?

          Parades, posturing, and whining, or real positive incremental change?

          ...and no sneaking it in as some amendment later, another poison pill trick..if some politician wants to put their name behind a national gun database..well...go ahead, but please make it a stand way the fuck alone proposal so the blowback doesn't ruin anything good nearby.

          This machine kills Fascists.

          by KenBee on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 03:54:13 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  car sales are tracked so government can get (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Greg Dworkin, wintergreen8694

        their pound of flesh and the enforcement is through the license plate.  The enforcement is through cops running your plate to make sure you have registered your vehicle.  The question is how gun transfers will be regulated since they are not displayed in public as cars are and they don't have easily visible plates.  The older ones' serial #s are frequently hard to read w/o being "raised"  

        •  there are (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          entlord, LilithGardener, KenBee

          legitimate objections/concerns as to how to do this.

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 06:42:18 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  which is why I don't argue against it but instead (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            KenBee

            I am trying to wrap my mind around the "how" of the details.  I already see ways that people manage to "get around" vehicle registration rules and there is less incentive there than there would be to conceal a private sale of a firearm.
            Of course, I assume such an action would be self financing, given the public Kabuki by our pols over the deficit, and any sort of fee or tax to register a private sale would probably meet more resistance than just registration of private sales

          •  car sales untracked until registry (0+ / 0-)

            and operation without on public roads illegal until registered and licensed...different: a private transfer can happen, it's the use that is regulated on public roads.

            I can buy a parts car, don't have to file anything, unless I want to legally use the motor ot ssn'd body parts. Legally.

            The seller to protect himself would be wise to file the
            'I sold it' paperwork should the car be found in some circumstance that might cost him/her.

            This machine kills Fascists.

            by KenBee on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 03:58:23 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  All gun transfers should have to go through (4+ / 0-)

          a licensed gun dealer for a transfer fee. Private sales would be a felony. Gun dealers would like it, because it would increase their business by upwards of 40% and possession of a firearm without the requisite papers would be a crime. If you look at the crime statistics, it is pretty clear that privately acquired guns are a major source of violent crime.

          For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

          by Anne Elk on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 08:00:40 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  it would be interesting to see if you could (0+ / 0-)

            criminalize the private disposition of private property by a private individual in a private transaction.  I am not sure I can think of another example where such a transaction is banned.   After all, even with liquor, which is the closest example, I can give someone $20 to run to the liquor store to get me a bottle

            •  That isn't exactly what I am suggesting. (0+ / 0-)

              It's really more like transferring ownership of a car. You do have to tell the DMV and insurance carrier about the transaction. In this case, the equivalent of the DMV would be a licensed gun dealer. But that reminds me also of the need to require liability insurance for all gun owners.

              For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

              by Anne Elk on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 11:29:37 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  so if my nearest FFL dealer is 50 miles away (0+ / 0-)

                (or even more, this is the boonies) and my neighbor wants to sell me his daddy's shotgun because he needs to pay his light bill (this also happens in some places), we would have to go to the dealer to transact the sale?  With cars, I can do title transfers online and by mail or by proxy.  Gun sales are supposed to be by the person who will own and use the gun, instead of the infamous straw man sales?
                BATF would be the ultimate custodian supposedly of such records so why add a middleman which would increase costs?

                Also I take it that the FFL dealer would charge a fee of $25-$50 for the cost of doing business since $25 is the local customary fee for transfers for guns bought on auction by private individuals.

                •  Well, that'd be a shame but guess what? (0+ / 0-)

                  We don't create laws based on the odd anecdote. We base them on what is most effective for most cases.

                  For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

                  by Anne Elk on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 12:14:22 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  but the great thing about this country is my (0+ / 0-)

                    voice is equal to yours and if my voice is in the minority, it is still respected.  Therefore, laws are not based on the most effective solution or else we would never need to repeal them

    •  Why do Republicans insist on (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DSPS owl

      "personal responsibility" for everything an ordinary citizen  does except those actions stemming from ownership of firearms?  The land of cognitive dissonance these people in - no wonder they live lives of hate and fear.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 10:07:16 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  focus (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DefendOurConstitution

    Mass murders get our attention--but it's hand gun violence that is most destructive.  People don't hunt with assault weapons--or with hand guns.  Both are used only to murder people--and should be banned.  Who'd have thought that I would look back with favor when the NRA fought for the right to have guns only for hunting animals.  

    Apres Bush, le deluge.

    by melvynny on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 05:32:00 AM PST

    •  I do not think banning them would help, or even be (2+ / 0-)

      possible, but having them be sensibly regulated (full criminal background checks, licensing and registration) would go a long way at reducing the number of these handguns in the hands of people that are not fit to handle them.

      Many of these handguns end up in the hands of criminals after being "laundered" into an illegal gun by unscrupulous "private" dealers that run these into states/cities with strict gun control laws (or by relatives of criminals that sell or give them the hand guns).  In either case the so called gun show loophole is the way that these legal guns become illegal guns.

      Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

      by DefendOurConstitution on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 05:51:30 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  won't work (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DefendOurConstitution

        I used to be a teacher in the Bronx, many of the guns in the neighborhood were purchased by girl friends of ex cons.  Right now, the best solution would be to force guns to be insured--and to limit where ammo can be purchased--with all bullets marked inside the shell casing.

        Apres Bush, le deluge.

        by melvynny on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 06:17:37 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  But requiring a purchaser to pass a few hurdles; (0+ / 0-)

          gun-specific proficiency, demonstrate safety features, including full assembly, reassembly, how to clear a jam, etc. and knowledge of their state and federal law would be useful barriers to entry.

          Such barriers might empower some of the girlfriends to avoid being killed by the ex con, reduce the chance of gun injury or death to any children in the house, or maybe even empower some of them to leave the guy (with or without her gun).

          No officer, I didn't mean to shoot my girl friend with multiple rounds. Yes, officer I did put the ammo and the magazine in the oven. How was I supposed to know she would use the oven for baking? - ST. PETERSBURG, FL, 2/18/13

          by LilithGardener on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 09:04:56 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  in some cases the guns sold private treaty (0+ / 0-)

        were confiscated by cops making drug stops who take the guns and turns the driver loose and then they can sell the gun for "income enhancement"

    •  actually they hunt with both but I'd agree on your (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VictorLaszlo, salmo, KenBee

      larger message that we look for answers in many of the wrong places. By far the overwhelming, more than half, number of incidents of gun violence are committed with a single shot. No need for any sort of fast reload. Suicide.

      Homicide of any sort is a distant second place, and homicide with any sort of long gun, rifle, shotgun, "assault" gun, is a tiny fraction of those homicides.

      How big is your personal carbon footprint?

      by ban nock on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 05:51:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  in that case (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ban nock, historys mysteries

        I no longer think suicides should be prevented for the sick and the aged--or, actually, anyone, who after medical/psychological care, wants to call it quits.  This would be a good use for a gun--better than running a car off the road--or into oncoming traffic.  Better than murder/suicide, better than a life of agony without hope for recovery.  My 99 year old mother--had the choice of morphine or pain--and wanted me to help her commit suicide--I didn't--I cowardly watched her starve to death.

        Apres Bush, le deluge.

        by melvynny on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 06:13:20 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  in my mom's hospital they just let the patients (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          skohayes, entlord, SoCalSal, KenBee

          control the amount of morphine going into the drip. That's a horrible thing, no one should be made to help their mom come to an end.

          I used to think as you, but then I read in a comment how most suicides are a spur of the moment thing, and if there are no firearms, the potential for success is much smaller. I know that I would rather kill myself than prolong a certain end anyway if it caused financial hardship on my young wife and kids. The flip side is I'd hate for one of my kids to suicide in a moment of despondency.

          I'm not anti handgun or anti gun but I'd sure like to hear of ways to keep people from committing suicide based on a depression.

          How big is your personal carbon footprint?

          by ban nock on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 06:26:53 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's my understanding that the most (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SoCalSal

            severely depressed have difficulty formulating a plan AND executing it. So proximity to guns is key, because guns and ammo already on hand don't require a plan, or much of any logistical capability. Trigger functions even with major impairment = instantaneous consequences.

            Other methods are less lethal for them because they either require planning/execution, or because there are more points where the plan fails for some reason, or somewhere in the lag between "initiate the plan" and "organ failure" they are likely to be found by someone and receive life saving intervention.

            I've read that the impulsivity factor is huge for teens, regardless of the method chosen, but especially so if guns are in the home or easily available.

            No officer, I didn't mean to shoot my girl friend with multiple rounds. Yes, officer I did put the ammo and the magazine in the oven. How was I supposed to know she would use the oven for baking? - ST. PETERSBURG, FL, 2/18/13

            by LilithGardener on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 09:18:06 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  pt suicide has been an option for all the years (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LilithGardener

          I have been in the medical field as well as the practice of "helping" a terminal pt along if the family so wishes.  You just did not have the right doctor

    •  small correction: a minority of hunters do hunt (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dogs are fuzzy

      with pistols and big game hunters routinely carry a pistol as back up to their rifle.  Check anyone going hunting in Alaska or big game country where you may find a grizzly for example

      •  okay--but not (0+ / 0-)

        in NYC, or LA.  When you go hunting, you should be able to rent a gun, from the police, if necessary.

        Apres Bush, le deluge.

        by melvynny on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 07:10:43 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's an idea I haven't seen - like the zip car (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          melvynny

          for people who don't want the hassle and cost of owning/maintaining a car.

          With a license and knowledge of federal and local law (wherever the firearm will be used), and competitive pricing for morning rental / afternoon rental, whole day, several days, etc.

          And might reduce the number of guns, if for only the simple reason that by renting you can sample the newest design, etc. Anything that reduces the intersection of guns and children or guns and alcohol will put a dent in the "accidental" injuries and deaths.

          No officer, I didn't mean to shoot my girl friend with multiple rounds. Yes, officer I did put the ammo and the magazine in the oven. How was I supposed to know she would use the oven for baking? - ST. PETERSBURG, FL, 2/18/13

          by LilithGardener on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 09:25:19 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  gun rentals are common at ranges but no one (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            LilithGardener, melvynny, KenBee

            rents guns for you to take home with you.  I take it is it because of the problem of retrieving the weapon (hey, people take cars for a drive and don't return it) and because it probably isn't currently exactly legal because, if they do charge a deposit equal to the value of the gun, they would need to fill out a purchase form and then retract it when you returned the gun.  The current system is not set up for such a thing currently  

  •  We decided it was time to move… (8+ / 0-)

    … when our young neighbor's persistently drunken husband, who had previously entertained himself by tossing empty beer cans against our house and into our yard, started brandishing an uzi.

    It's been close to 20 years since we left the neighborhood, and I still wonder what has happened since.

  •  Saw this on Twitter yesterday (4+ / 0-)

    An artistic way to get people to think about climate change:

    “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

    by skohayes on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 05:47:05 AM PST

    •  That is very effective engagement nt (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skohayes

      No officer, I didn't mean to shoot my girl friend with multiple rounds. Yes, officer I did put the ammo and the magazine in the oven. How was I supposed to know she would use the oven for baking? - ST. PETERSBURG, FL, 2/18/13

      by LilithGardener on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 09:28:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Jennifer Rubin is OUTRAGED (8+ / 0-)

    at Jack Lew's record. OUTRAGED!

    That was only the beginning of Lew’s remarkable good fortune. At Citicorp, Lew was paid gobs of money for doing goodness knows what, certainly not for doing a good job. The Post reports, “In early 2008, he became a top executive in the Citigroup unit that housed many of the bank’s riskiest operations, including its hedge funds and private equity investments. Massive losses in that unit helped drive Citigroup into the arms of the federal government, which bailed out the bank with $45 billion in taxpayer money that year.” But once again Lew failed upward
    So now the right starts to worry about "golden parachutes" and failing upward?
    Was that an issue with Meg Whitman or Carly Fiorina? I don't remember hearing anything about them.
    Wasn't Dick Armey just paid $8 million to leave FreedomWorks after a failed takeover bid? Talk about failing upward.
    This is the funniest part:
    This is precisely the grotesque crony capitalism Republicans have been railing against during the Obama era.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

    by skohayes on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 06:03:25 AM PST

  •  Thanks for an excellent roundup, Mark! (5+ / 0-)

    Every day the APR is the first thing I want to read.  It's great to get snippets and links from the national conversation.

    Will definitely read the Pitt article, thanks for the pointer!

    "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

    by Diana in NoVa on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 06:07:46 AM PST

  •  I have issue with PETA but this is sweet (6+ / 0-)
    To honor Catherine Hubbard, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) announced this week that it is inscribing a leaf on its Tree of Life monument at its Norfolk, Va., headquarters with a message that reads: "In Loving Memory Of Catherine Violet Hubbard | Friend To All Animals."

    PETA announced the beautiful gesture through its official blog, The PETA Files, on Thursday, February 21. The tree is wall art twinkling with hundreds of golden leaves, most representing a $5,000 donation "to commemorate milestones such as births or anniversaries, to honor those still living, or to pay tribute to the memory of a departed loved one," according to the organization's website.

    "Catherine loved to watch baby birds in their nests and reveled in having butterflies land on her. She doted on her beloved rabbit, Flopsy, and would help her elderly, arthritis-stricken dog, Samantha, to her feet when she struggled," Alisa Mullins wrote for part of the blog. The 6-year old's mother, Jenny, told PETA that Catherine used to tell insects "Tell all your friends I'm kind," so that they would "all feel welcome and safe," the post continued.

    Before Catherine's funeral, her parents had asked that, in lieu of flowers, donations be made to The Animal Center in Newtown. So far, more than $200,000 has been donated in Catherine's name.

    Catherine had dreamed of establishing her own animal shelter one day, and The Animal Center plans to use the money raised in her name to build The Catherine Violet Hubbard Animal Sanctuary, where children can visit and learn about animals rescued from abusive situations.

    "Each of us can pay tribute to Catherine by trying to live like she would: by taking a stray cat to a shelter, stopping to help a turtle cross the road, or walking a neighbor's dog. These are the kinds of things that Catherine would do if she were here — and the things she would teach others to do by her example," Ms Mullins said of Catherine, whom she described as a "thoughtful, introspective redhead."

    PETA is also encouraging parents who want to raise compassionate kids like Catherine to urge their children "to take a page from Catherine's book and tell all their friends that they're kind."

    http://newtownbee.com/...

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by Greg Dworkin on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 06:09:45 AM PST

  •  about the PBS show, the CBS story, etc.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    salmo, SoCalSal
    During a February 9 panel discussion at the annual winter convention of the New England Newspaper & Press Association in Boston, Connecticut State Police Lieutenant J. Paul Vance told about 100 journalists, editors, and publishers attending a panel on school shootings that the only official and accurate statements regarding the tragic events of 12/14 and the continuing investigation will come from him.

    Just nine days later, Lt Vance was criticizing several news organizations that either printed or broadcast reports incorporating specific details about the investigation and suggesting possible motives for the mass shooting, without attributing their information. In most cases, those reports instead cite either law enforcement sources or others close to the investigation.

    http://newtownbee.com/...

    Vance says no one contacted him and some of the stuff is just wrong.

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by Greg Dworkin on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 06:11:35 AM PST

    •  another sign that news has become entertainment (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wintergreen8694, SoCalSal

      where reporters would rather be fast than accurate and their editors concur.  If you poke around any tragedy, you can always find someone eager to have their mug on the evening news even if they know zilch about what happened or any of the actors

  •  Greg, your comment brought tears to my eyes (2+ / 0-)

    What a beautiful tribute to a beautiful little girl.  And this innocent, who had more love in her little body than most grown-ups ever have in their entire lives, was killed because the gun lobby needs sacrifices to the great god Baal-Moloch, devourer of children.

    I despair of the mindset of half of this country.  Half of us want gun control and the other half wants continual murder.

    "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

    by Diana in NoVa on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 06:14:53 AM PST

    •  the way I see it... (4+ / 0-)

      all of us want less gun violence (yes, all of us, and we should not lose sight of that). We just can't agree how. In a democracy, that's par for the course.

      What we need to do, as in elections, is try our best and accept when we lose. And then learn form the loss, and try again another time with a better program or candidate.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 06:45:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sequester Then...'The most horrible thing since... (0+ / 0-)

    forever.'......Sequester Now...'It's not so bad.'

  •  When we try to predict gun violence... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shaharazade, SoCalSal

    we get into that area of "precrime" where we are judging people on what they could do instead of what they have done. This is a very rough patch of real estate.for many to swallow. But it brings up the ugly part of gun violence. That of having a massive amount of statistics showing clearly what we already SHOULD know... People kill with guns over the stupidest things!

    "I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately." -- George Carlin, Satirical Comic,(1937-2008)

    by Wynter on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 07:00:43 AM PST

  •  Drunk and Violent (0+ / 0-)

    Booze abuse is a problem that if solved would quieten the gun control debate, erase much (or most) domestic violence, prevent tens of thousands of injuries and deaths, intended and "accidental," all by either cutting off the source of the chemical (we tried that already) or by going after the drunks themselves.  What are we gonna do?  Line them up and ... shoot them?

    Pretty tall order, fixing all of society's ills, especially when society doesn't want to be fixed.

    The wisdom of my forebears ... Two wise people will never agree. Man begins in dust and ends in dust — meanwhile it's good to drink some vodka. A man studies until he's seventy and dies a fool. Some of my best friends are Catholics, really.

    by Not A Bot on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 07:13:42 AM PST

    •  Drunks interact with law enforcement a lot (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Not A Bot, DSPS owl, KenBee

      If they lost their guns at each drunk driving stop and domestic violence call, they eventually couldn't afford to keep replacing them.

      Freedom isn't free. Patriots pay taxes.

      by Dogs are fuzzy on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 10:08:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  since cops sell confiscated guns, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Not A Bot

        sell them on police consignment, price set by prof evaluator, paid out of proceeds, ((evaluator not allowed to buy or straw buy at risk of/penalty of loss of evaluator/FFL status (usually another FFL gun dealer, so not likely to fudge this enough to get caught/lose FFL license))

        then the arrested DUI person gets the remainder of the proceeds...after the evaluation and % to dealer, and maybe 10% to police for their tracking..but no more, not enough to call it a police income stream...like pot cash confiscations. Probably would be 1/2 t0 75% of replacement cost and a PIA to have to reapply for new purchase..especially if domestic violence is on the record as well as DUI.

        This machine kills Fascists.

        by KenBee on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 06:55:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Hyper-change (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shaharazade
    Our world isn't one of "hyper-change," it's one of wringing the last few drops from ideas that are decades, if not centuries old. Is it chaotic? Yes, but that's because there is no strong new wave driving events, just a sea of static.
    As my friend Joseph Chassler used to say, "There is no idea so powerful as an idea whose time has passed but is backed by a lot of money."
  •  Think about how we approach drug laws vs gun laws (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dogs are fuzzy, DSPS owl

    Most anti-drug folks would agree that, even if addictive drugs were freely available, most people would not become addicts. Alcohol is freely available, but most people are not alcoholics. So, a la gun logic, why have any rules regarding alcohol at all, since most people don't abuse alcohol? The same could be said of heroin or cocaine. The reasoning, usually from the same people who oppose gun laws is that mass prohibition and tight controls over sales of addictive drugs protects the vulnerable from a pretty significant evil, and protects the community from the harm that addicts do. So, why not use the same logic with guns?

    For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

    by Anne Elk on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 07:54:58 AM PST

  •  Your point about what's not changing (0+ / 0-)

    is a good one, but some social phenomena are indeed changing rather quickly, and more quickly than, in my understanding, they would have a century or more ago. This was described/predicted almost half a century ago in Future Shock by Alvin Toffler. "Change is changing" was the mantra. I have this on my list for re-reading, now that several decades have passed. I think it will be interesting to look back at what the future was supposed to be.

    We all understand that freedom isn't free. What Romney and Ryan don't understand is that neither is opportunity. We have to invest in it.
    Julian Castro, DNC 4 Sept 2012

    by pixxer on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 08:52:36 AM PST

  •  Pace of change (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SoCalSal, DSPS owl

    "Our world isn't one of "hyper-change," it's one of wringing the last few drops from ideas that are decades, if not centuries old."

    We have an African-American president, which I did not expect to see in my lifetime, and legal gay marriage, which I didn't expect to happen at all. Smoking has gone from obligatory to shameful.

    A country which used to lead the world on human rights has gone over to wars of aggression and torture.

    The largest empire in human history evaporated almost overnight like a soap bubble.

    In a few years people who adapted to the Internet as children will be hitting positions of power.

    Freedom isn't free. Patriots pay taxes.

    by Dogs are fuzzy on Sun Feb 24, 2013 at 10:15:34 AM PST

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