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Nate Beeler via politicalcartoons.com
On December 14, 2012, a mass slaughter took place at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown. From the earliest call to the first responders, doctors in the area began mobilizing in ways similar to 9/11, preparing for mass casualties that, with all too few exceptions, did not arrive. Doctors were on site at Sandy Hook Elementary School but were told there was nothing they could do. Pediatricians, surgeons, ER doctors, and supporting medical professionals at the local hospital in Danbury and other hospitals around the state were organized into multiple teams that were then, alas, told to stand down (the mental health professionals are still working to this day).

We did our best, but it wasn't nearly enough.

Almost immediately after the horrific events of 12/14 in Newtown, the local doctors who were involved that day began to consider how we could contribute to the national discussion about reducing violence and protecting our children. From that, the United Physicians of Newtown was formed (website here), of which I am a member.

We've agreed on a position statement (link). Already the group has had some exposure in the news, particularly through Dr William Begg, who was featured on The Last Word, interviewed on Piers Morgan, and is seen here testifying to the Senate this past week:

But knowing why we're doing what we're doing and how we got here seems to me as important as advocating for a specific position. That's especially true for contentious issues involving gun rights and gun safety, which we wish to consider with respect for all sides of the issue, and with the utmost respect for the families and the first responders, our friends and neighbors, involved that day.

In that regard, I have had the opportunity to talk to J. James Bruno II, MD, a respected local urologist and Founder and Chairman of United Physicians of Newtown about how and why this group got started, and what its intentions are.

Join me below the fold to learn from Dr. Bruno on how the group expects to contribute to our national dialogue.

Origins

Daily Kos: A number of different groups have organized around the events of 12/14. What made you decide to try and organize Newtown physicians into a specific group?

Dr Bruno: Soon after I picked my 5 year old daughter up from the Sandy Hook Firehouse on December 14th and processed that she was physically safe I began to think about how physicians could help our town. On Jan 17th I received a group email from the American College of Surgeons about their revised Statement on Firearm Injuries.  I spoke with David Hoyt, MD, the Executive Director of the ACS and informed him of my thoughts of uniting a group of Newtown doctors in response the tragedy.  He empowered me to proceed with this coalition stating that we would have a unique and powerful voice in this local and national debate.  I began speaking with the several doctors I knew in Newtown and over the course of a few days had my feelings echoed by all of them—specifically that as health professional we can, and must, be a voice in these dark days.

By personal calls, email lists and word of mouth this concept began to reach out to each and every doctor we could identify who lived or worked in Newtown.  On January 31, 2013, I assembled 75 physicians at the C.H. Booth Library in Newtown for our inaugural meeting to have an open forum about these issues.  The open dialogue that evening and the subsequent emails allowed the Steering Committee to ultimately formulate the United Physicians of Newtown Position Statement.  

Daily Kos: Did you expect as robust a response (over 100 members) as you got?

Dr Bruno: Frankly, no.  I must say that I personally knew less than 25 physicians that lived in Newtown before that evening. Although in retrospect it should not have been so surprising (based on the quality of the town), I was amazed that more than 100 doctors lived or worked in Newtown.  I did not expect that the response would be as robust, as unified and nearly unanimous.

Daily Kos: Why do you think so many physicians responded?

Dr Bruno: The physicians of Newtown are not only incredibly talented in their respective specialties and profoundly intelligent, but are also passionate about their town and their children.  The overlap between the mind of a doctor and the heart of a parent was the catalyst for these Newtown citizens to join the coalition.

Goals

Daily Kos: What goals do you hope to achieve short and long term?

Dr Bruno: Our goals have a variety of time horizons.  In the short term our goal is to promote our position statement to all of our local and nation medical societies.  We represent nearly every medical specialty and believe that every society should share a similar position statement.  Whether surgeon or dermatologist, ER doctor or psychiatrist, pediatrician or pathologist this epidemic demands all physicians in the United States respond to this worsening public health crisis.

In the intermediate term we look to promote our coalition’s tenets to the legislators and the media.  By working in this sphere we can not only be a resource for the politicians through testimony, advisory panels, forums, etc, but more importantly can act as a voice for our town and our lost citizens.  We believe the press can help promote our cause to physicians and the public alike throughout the country.

In the long term our plans are as broad as they are far reaching.  Although we have not formulated the exact details they include creating a medical symposium on the impact of the culture of violence, mental health, firearms and most importantly research on this epidemic.  We also look to gain support from the millions of people (inside and outside of medicine) who share a similar vision.

Daily Kos: Right now, the group is mostly local physicians. Do you anticipate other medical professionals joining? What about doctors from outside Newtown?

Dr Bruno: The short term answer is unfortunately “no.” Although it has been hard to decline the genuine offers and support from nurses, PAs, etc in town and doctors from other towns we are currently faced with several restraints.  Being extremely busy with full time practices and families our time is limited to begin with; we do not envision this to be a 501(c)(4) or lobby group, nor do we have an administrator, manager or publicist.  As such, the scope is inherently limited to the ~100 members we have now based on the limits of our time.

The long term answer may very well be a growth from “United Physicians of Newtown” to “United Physicians for Newtown”.

Daily Kos: The group is not soliciting money, but are there things you want the general public to do? Should non-Newtown physicians contact their own state medical societies with the UPoN proposals or review the proposals to see if they can be endorsed locally or in other states? Should non physicians contact their Congressmen about UPoN and these proposals?

Dr Bruno: Absolutely.  The United Physicians of Newtown Position Statement is a document that has been carefully crafted and expresses the fundamental tenets of this coalition.  We offer the (credited) use of the position statement to physicians and non physicians alike in order to actively promote the recommendations of UPoN to their local, state and national medical societies and legislators.

Daily Kos: How can local doctors and hospitals help achieve your goals? Do you think there’s a role for education, or for anticipatory screening in the office? What’s the best way for doctors to work on these goals from a professional perspective?

Unfortunately hospitals are being limited in their ability to speak against this worsening public health epidemic and endorse these proposals.  Nevertheless, individual doctors—as citizens—can uses these tenets as a starting point to call, email and write to their local, state and national medical societies and legislators.  The power of this professional voice can, and will, lead to a paradigm shift in the culture of violence, firearms themselves, and mental health via epidemiological research and the enacting of real legislative change.

Administration

Daily Kos: Clearly this has been a large task to form a coalition of over 100 doctors.  Who has assisted you in this endeavor?

Dr Bruno: I am very proud to be the founder and chairman of the United Physicians of Newtown.  This Herculean organizational task has been made possible by the voice of all the members and also the talents of the Steering Committee.  Each has their own unique skill set that had made this group possible.  Robert Bazuro, DO, Raul Arguello, MD and I were together at the Sandy Hook Firehouse on the morning of December 14th and became the initial nucleus of the organization which has now grown to six on the steering committee including myself.  

   Dr. Bazuro (Emergency Medicine) is our director of communications and internet/facebook creator
   Dr. Arguello (Pediatrics) is our pediatric expert and liaison to pediatricians.  
   Dr. Charles Herrick (Psychiatry) is our psychiatric expert and mental health liaison.
   Dr. Gregory Dworkin (Pediatric Pulmonology) is our media liaison [and today's interviewer - ed.]
   Dr. William Begg (Emergency Medicine) is our spokesman and public face of the coalition.

Their unyielding passion and incredible abilities have made United Physicians of Newtown what it is today.

Daily Kos: Thank you, Dr Bruno.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 02:45 PM PST.

Also republished by Repeal or Amend the Second Amendment (RASA) and Shut Down the NRA.

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Comment Preferences

  •  here's a great SciAm editorial (59+ / 0-)

    supporting research

    How to Slow Firearm Deaths Without Banning All Guns

    Like it or not, guns are here to stay. To keep ourselves safer, we must study how they are used to kill

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/...

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by Greg Dworkin on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 06:24:58 AM PST

    •  asdf (4+ / 0-)
      How to Slow Firearm Deaths Without Banning All Guns
      Like it or not, guns are here to stay. To keep ourselves safer, we must study how they are used to kill
      This is not a given and the last part just leaves me scratching my head. Sounds like NRAspeak to me.
    •  "a willingness to examine the causes of violence (16+ / 0-)

      with dispassion and the stomach to go where the data lead"

      In January, President Barack Obama instructed the cdc to resume studying the causes and prevention of gun violence. He also asked for $10 million to support gun safety research at the cdc—a request that Congress must pass. But these measures are not enough. If history is any guide, the NRA will attempt to impede these new investigations. Doctors, scientists and ordinary citizens will have to keep up the pressure to protect research (and researchers) from political meddling.

      The NRA has cynically framed the debate as a choice between banning all guns and doing nothing. It is a false choice. Congressman Dickey, for one, has recanted; he has publicly stated that firearms research is the best way to reduce the violence. We didn't have to ban automobiles to cut roadway fatalities, and we don't have to ban all guns to reduce gun-related deaths. All we need is a willingness to examine the causes of violence with dispassion—and the stomach to go where the data lead.

      Warning - some snark above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013

      by annieli on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 03:00:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Re: Questions (0+ / 0-)

        If $10 million is all that's requires, couldn't Bloomberg front it?  Also, if the President could order CDC to resume studying causes and prevention of gun violence, what stopped CDC from doing it before?

        When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

        by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 05:52:23 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  lack of funds (5+ / 0-)

          and the clear message from Congress to defund the CDC and intimidate researchers. That's beyond argument.

          What Researchers Learned About Gun Violence Before Congress Killed Funding

          and NRA, Congress stymied CDC gun research budget:

          In 1996, the NRA successfully lobbied Congress to put this restriction into the CDC's budget: "None of the funds made available ... may be used to advocate or promote gun control."

          "These were shots fired across the bow," said Rosenberg, "and they the terrorized people at the CDC. And they terrorized researchers who said, 'Whoa, this is scary. I don't want my funding jeopardized.'"

          and CDC: Politics affected gun violence research:
          Researchers say the means to prevent such tragedies are lacking in part because the National Rifle Association’s campaign against the CDC intimidated scientists across the nation. Those who oppose gun control say the scientists sponsored by the CDC were biased and a threat to fundamental American rights.

          Neither side minces words.

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 06:16:39 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Re: (0+ / 0-)

            I really have to challenge that.  Besides Rosenberg and Kellerman, who got a fistful of criticism for their shoddy work, what evidence is their that firearms violence, injury and mortality research was blocked for the last decade?  On top of that, there are number of agencies concerned with gun violence, including the states themselves, that could have invested in this research.  And at the price tag--on the order $10 million--are we seriously arguing that private interests couldn't have gotten involved?  I mean come on; Mayors Against Illegals Guns has been around since 2006.  If they wanted to leave their fingerprints off it, send the money to Brookings, or CAP, or any other number of think tanks, or better yet an honest to god injury center at a real university.

            When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

            by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 06:28:09 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  you can challenge it (4+ / 0-)

              but it is what it is. You can defend what you call "shoddy" work? Don't throw the word around, show me.  I know for a fact that the NRA pushed to ban the data collection from being funded. That's indefensible.

              OTOH, in this environment you mean to tell me you think $10 million is available on the private side? Where?

              "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

              by Greg Dworkin on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 06:45:01 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Re: (0+ / 0-)

                Kellerman was the principal investigator who produced the Home Safety Project, 1987-1992 survey, from which we get the "guns in the home increase the risk of gun homicide" claim (raised by Kellerman himself in first publication off the dataset).  Took him until 1997 to finally release the data, and when he did, turns out that it doesn't even code for whether or not the homicide victim was actually killed by a gun held within that household.  Rosenberg oversaw the program that funded that study.

                Yes, the NRA did move to defund Rosenberg in 1996.  I also think that was indefensible.  And possibly stupid.  there's been no serious attempt to validate Kellerman since 1996, or a host of other garbage that came out of Rosenberg's shop around the same time.  I say possibly stupid because maybe it wasn't.  Once something like Kellerman gets out there, clear and convincing simply isn't showing confounding problems that obstruct the conclusion.  You'd to utterly refute them, and without better data you can't.  

                No, I'll stick with stupid.  Because the cover up always stinks, crime or no crime.

                When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

                by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 07:03:53 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Re: (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Greg Dworkin

                Actually, this is a debate for another time.  And I didn't mean to sucked into all these threads like I did.  In any case, congrats on your organization and hat tip to Dr. Beggs.  Hope to see you guys somewhere in the middle of all this once it's over.

                When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

                by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 08:03:41 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  National Library of Medicine (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              annieli

              https://www.nlm.nih.gov/...

              One-third of all families in America that have children also have guns, and more than 40 percent of them don't keep their guns locked up. Children younger than eight can't tell the difference between a real gun and a toy, and 3-year-olds are strong enough to pull the trigger on a real gun. Children and teens commit more than half of all unintentional shootings.

              Here are some things you can do to keep yourself and your family safe.
                  •    Teach children that they shouldn't touch guns and that if they see a gun, to leave it alone and tell an adult.
                  •    If your children play at another home, talk to the parents about gun safety.
                  •    Treat every gun as if it were loaded.
                  •    Always store guns unloaded.
                  •    Lock guns in a rack or safe, and hide the keys or combination.
                  •    Store ammunition away from guns and keep it locked.
                  •    Don't keep guns in your home if someone in your family has a mental illness, severe depression, or potential for violence.

              The scariest part is the inverse. If more than half of accidental shooting are committed by children and teens, that means that almost half of ACCIDENTAL shootings are committed by adults.

              Proficiency testing, trigger locks, and public education will very likely make a dent in incidence of accidental shootings.

              "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

              by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 07:51:09 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Re: (0+ / 0-)

                These are safety advisories, not studies.  Some of these warnings and tips are common sense; your 3 year old should not be playing with a gun, and if you're living with dangerous people in your house you probably shouldn't keep guns around them.  Some of them are utterly unsourced, like 40 percent of families with guns and children don't keep their guns locked up.  Finally, whoever wrote these tips--particularly where it concerns storage--apparently combined a mix of old truisms with things they just made up without any serious thought given to security period, let alone safe storage.

                When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

                by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 07:58:54 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  If you click on the link I provided at the bottom (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Pluto, Faito

                  you can click on their sources, articles and studies.

                  The entries in Medline Plus are intended to be accessible for  lay readers, not as scholarly research papers.

                  "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                  by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 08:24:16 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

    •  Points for referencing my favorite magazine (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Greg Dworkin, Glen The Plumber

      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

      by dinotrac on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 03:46:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's depressing (3+ / 0-)

      to read the comments below the editorial.  The gun-advocates are attacking the magazine for daring to challenge the NRA's great gun-lobbyist wisdom that it's best for all if we suppress all studies on gun violence.  It's the usual conspiracies (prescription drugs are to blame!) mixed with righteous anger (I've been a subscriber for two decades but cancel me now!) and a dash of hysteria (Obviously SA has a Liberal agenda!).

    •  Be careful, Greg (4+ / 0-)

      Posting an opinion that guns are here to stay and we need to look into the reasons people are using them is the sort of thing that will get you labeled a gun nut and an NRA shill.

      As a gun owner who has posted and commented here multiple times that we need to do exactly what that SciAm article said (examine the causes of violence), and has been roundly criticized for saying it, I expect you will catch some flak as well.

      •  I go where the data takes me (10+ / 0-)

        so be it.

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 04:21:24 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Re: (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Greg Dworkin

          I'll take that pledge with you.

          When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

          by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 05:57:41 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I am convinced there is much (4+ / 0-)

            common ground to share. My goal is to save lives, not to win a political battle. I only engage in politics when I think it's needed to affect policy.

            It is never an end in itself.

            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

            by Greg Dworkin on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 06:19:06 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Re: (0+ / 0-)

              Just be prepared to be disappointed.  Especially with the present effort.  The President is asking for a lot for $10 million, and gun violence is a 50 state problem with an extremely poor and sparse dataset.

              When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

              by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 06:21:49 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  People in Newtown are prepared for a long slog (2+ / 0-)

                and not everyone is our enemy. Good folks like yourself want less gun deaths. we appreciate that. we all want to find ways to achieve that goal.

                Individual states will do more: CT, NY, CO  and MD come to mind. Some (NY) not so wisely, but that can be fixed.

                "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

                by Greg Dworkin on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 06:28:27 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  The primary reason (0+ / 0-)

                that the problem of gun violence has an extremely poor and sparse data set is that the gun lobby wants it that way.

                Over the past two decades, the NRA has not only been able to stop gun control laws, but even debate on the subject. The Centers for Disease Control funds research into the causes of death in the United States, including firearms — or at least it used to. In 1996, after various studies funded by the agency found that guns can be dangerous, the gun lobby mobilized to punish the agency. First, Republicans tried to eliminate entirely the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, the bureau responsible for the research. When that failed, Rep. Jay Dickey, a Republican from Arkansas, successfully pushed through an amendment that stripped $2.6 million from the CDC’s budget (the amount it had spent on gun research in the previous year) and outlawed research on gun control with a provision that reads: “None of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control.”

                http://www.salon.com/...

  •  Thank you DemfromCT, as always you inspire. n/t (14+ / 0-)

    Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

    by DefendOurConstitution on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 02:46:37 PM PST

  •  The NRA's resistance to even allow research re: (11+ / 0-)

    gun violenceto proceed is the most appaling of all.  Why are they afraid of people discovering the truth?

  •  One of our county's schools was unexpectedly (11+ / 0-)

    closed last Monday due to a "crisis". (In TN) We weren't told the crisis until later. It was a "manhunt".

    A school employee had killed his mother and his family.

    It was about an hour after I heard the news that it hit me that school shootings have become so common they are on high alert against them.

    And we need research? I realize that we need it as a weapon against the NRA but the fact that we do disgusts me.

    Tracy B Ann - technically that is my signature.

    by ZenTrainer on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 03:30:39 PM PST

    •  Not so common (4+ / 0-)

      The high alert is because they aren't so common. Common events become part of the routine business of the day.

      And we need research for its own value, not as a "weapon against the NRA". There are a huge number of questions it would be helpful to have answers to, but have been prevented from finding out by NRA blocks on research.  (Granted, it is pretty much certain that what research tells us will help reduce gun violence will be policies that the NRA will strenuously object to.)

      "No one life is more important than another. No one voice is more valid than another. Each life is a treasure. Each voice deserves to be heard." Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse & Onomastic

      by Catte Nappe on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 03:58:15 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  And some people want school employees (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Catte Nappe, Marjmar, ZenTrainer

      to be armed.

      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

      by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 04:55:18 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sorry. All self-serving horseshit, Greg. (0+ / 0-)

    Link.

    It boils down to a single sentence:  

    As a country, we must get to a place where sacrificing 20 young children and 6 adults at the altar of the 2nd amendment simply isn’t acceptable or even possible.
    That's the only thing that needs to be said.

    "Mitt who? That's an odd name. Like an oven mitt, you mean? Oh, yeah, I've got one of those. Used it at the Atlas Society BBQ last summer when I was flipping ribs."

    by Richard Cranium on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 03:32:35 PM PST

    •  Talk about self serving (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Glen The Plumber, LilithGardener

      Your diary is the be all, end all, and last word; and everybody else who has something to say should just sit down and shut up?

      Somehow I think the combined voices of Newtown's physicians has a better chance of influencing debate than does yours (or mine, or Greg's alone)

      "No one life is more important than another. No one voice is more valid than another. Each life is a treasure. Each voice deserves to be heard." Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse & Onomastic

      by Catte Nappe on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 04:03:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Tell me what doesn't apply (0+ / 0-)

        Give it your best shot.

        As a country, we must get to a place where sacrificing 20 young children and 6 adults at the altar of the 2nd amendment simply isn’t acceptable or even possible.

        "Mitt who? That's an odd name. Like an oven mitt, you mean? Oh, yeah, I've got one of those. Used it at the Atlas Society BBQ last summer when I was flipping ribs."

        by Richard Cranium on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 04:12:32 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Your statement is necessary (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Glen The Plumber, LilithGardener

          It is not sufficient.

          What this group is undertaking is one of hopefully many practical steps to getting us to that place, and making such incidents less possible. To refer to it as horseshit is needlessly rude, and counterproductive if the goal is meaningful change as opposed to opportunity for outraged rants.

          "No one life is more important than another. No one voice is more valid than another. Each life is a treasure. Each voice deserves to be heard." Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse & Onomastic

          by Catte Nappe on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 04:19:18 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Your subject line doesn't apply (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Glen The Plumber, LilithGardener
          •  At the risk of the banhammer (0+ / 0-)

            Go fuck yourself.

            Nearly 3 months removed from the Newtown massacre, we're no closer to resolving the root cause then we were 4 months ago.

            I respect Greg completely.

            But this issue is beyond respect for a single individual or local movement.

            What's the threshold?  30 babies?  40?  100?

            I can't even believe this subject is still the subject of debate, particularly in the progressive community.

            "Mitt who? That's an odd name. Like an oven mitt, you mean? Oh, yeah, I've got one of those. Used it at the Atlas Society BBQ last summer when I was flipping ribs."

            by Richard Cranium on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 04:28:55 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well I will say I don't want you banned (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Catte Nappe, Glen The Plumber

              just because you can't figure out how to say what you need to say without being stupid and disrespectful of other people trying to do what THEY can.
              I just wish you'd figure it out. It's not that hard.

              •  I'm not sure what one of the statements means (0+ / 0-)
                But this issue is beyond respect for a single individual or local movement.
                But I'm sure not going to ask that person.

                "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 04:58:28 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  I'm not personally offended (4+ / 0-)

              Just watch dr begg's testimony. It's hard on all of us, not just him, and we all wish we could do more.

              you're gonna hate my answer, but it's twofold (I don't know which one you'll dislike more):

              1. political reality says universal background checks will happen but an AWB may not. And before you call it BS, let me point out political reality has "reality" in the name for a reason.
              2.  the older I get the more sure I am that I don't have all the answers. We as a group think we need to try and implement all of the recommendations not just the 4th one.

              "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

              by Greg Dworkin on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 04:51:04 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I don't want you to be personally offended (0+ / 0-)

                The older I get (and I'm closing on 60) the more I'm sure that I don't have any of the answers.

                But if this country can't wrap it's head around dealing with the mechanism of instant death for 20 babies, then I'm not so sure this country is not too far gone as a society.

                I knew this was going to happen.  The more time/distance that is put between the events at Sandy Hook and present reality, the less likely it was that any meaningful gun control reform was going to happen.

                It saddens me to know that, despite the efforts of you and those in your profession (and locality), it's increasingly unlikely that this nation will come to grips with reality that this country has gone gun-insane, and that realistically, there's no way to politically deal with the problem.

                "Mitt who? That's an odd name. Like an oven mitt, you mean? Oh, yeah, I've got one of those. Used it at the Atlas Society BBQ last summer when I was flipping ribs."

                by Richard Cranium on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 06:35:32 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  Would be nice if you respected others, too (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Glen The Plumber

              I said nothing that was deserving of that response.

              "No one life is more important than another. No one voice is more valid than another. Each life is a treasure. Each voice deserves to be heard." Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse & Onomastic

              by Catte Nappe on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 05:07:16 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  Re: No more to be said? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Greg Dworkin

      As opposed to 11,000 dead a year from gun violence and nearly 20,000 more from gun suicides, a huge percentage who didn't have the luxury of extensive media attention to their demise?  

      I think there's a lot more to be said.

      When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

      by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 06:01:26 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  These doctors (5+ / 0-)

    are very brave, for they will be attacked without mercy by the gun-advocates, for daring to speak out against the plague of gun violence in America.

    If any of you have not read the NYT piece about the first responders and all they are still going through...it is well worth reading.  I feel bad for all of them.

    http://www.nytimes.com/...

    •  The toll is born by all the survivors (4+ / 0-)

      which includes those who witnessed, those who survived the diseased, those who survived being shot, and all those who must pick up the pieces of the lives that were shattered.

      And that's true not just for Newtown, but for all the gunshots today, yesterday, and the day before that, ad nauseum.

      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

      by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 05:01:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  We need to decide (6+ / 0-)

    That gun violence is a huge public health problem hardly seems arguable.  Yet somehow it is.  The extremists advocating for open carry, assault weapons, high capacity magazines, etc. do not appear to want a society with less violence.

    The "debate" is on policy while the real question--do you want a safer, less violent society--is the so-called elephant in the room.

    "The bass player is always right"

    by BigOkie on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 03:56:35 PM PST

    •  What I don't get is (6+ / 0-)

      Why is gun control not a public safety issue, like it is for placing certain limitations on the first Amendment?  Obviously, the bubbas' need to have easy access to as many guns and as much ammo as they want with easy ways around background checks and the like is interfering with public safety.  Don't my kids have a right to go to school without being shot to death by some nutball with an AR 15 or some other such weapon?

      •  Or like safety on airplanes, (7+ / 0-)

        or in food, or against drunk driving, or not being insured, or being qualified to drive certain vehicles, or fly planes or helocopters, or...

        "...the Constitution of the U.S. is an entitlement for everybody." - Jim Clyburn

        by Beastly Fool on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 04:06:15 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  It is in some places - NYC (0+ / 0-)

        17,000 schools
        1.1 million students
        635,000 K-8 students

        Mass shootings in schools?
        Zero

        And no they aren't all guarded by police 24/7 or all sending children through metal detectors.

        "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

        by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 05:03:43 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Re: (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Greg Dworkin

        Are you kidding me?  It's not a public safety issue?  Does law enforcement give up when a firearm is involved?  "Oh, we can't involved; Second Amendment and all that."

        Forget about the bubbas (actually, don't, because you don't have enough states, therefore Senators that can give you votes on what you want), what about the other 4 out of 10 households with a gun?  What about the 4 in 10 Democrats in households with a gun?  I mean seriously, what is your objective?  To reduce gun violence or to spit on people who choose a different lifestyle than you?

        When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

        by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 06:07:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh settle down. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          madcitysailor

          Nobody is spitting on you Pat.  You do not need an AK-47 to "hunt" or to "defend yourself".  If you do, you should give up hunting because you stink at it or MOVE to a better neighborhood.  A ban on assault rifles or high capacity mags will not collapse the 2nd Amendment, and universal background checks will not either.  

          There is no 'right of insurrection' in the Constitution so give it up already about fantasies of gunning down the tyrannical government bad guys.  Don't even go there about video games, violent movies, Switzerland, prescription drugs, and Hitler.

          Our state-by-state gun laws DO NOT WORK.  They will never work because you have lax laws and strict laws and the states with lax laws are arming anybody with a pulse.  The only thing that will work is scrapping those laws and establishing single, sane federal gun legislation.

    •  Re: (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Greg Dworkin

      Gun violence is a problem period.  The question is whether or not we have good epidemiology surrounding it.  One thing both sides agree on is we do not.  So instead of prescribing quack treatments to a problem you don't understand, study it first.

      When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

      by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 06:04:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  and also do some post marketing study (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LilithGardener

        if we do pass somethng so we know what worked and what didn't.

        we are not starting from scratch on this.

         http://www.jhsph.edu/...

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 06:22:34 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Re: States are the laboratories of democracies (0+ / 0-)

          Pretty much everything under debate has been implemented somewhere in this country.  I don't bring up the former AWB because we have New Jersey, New york, California, Illinois, DC., and a host of other jurisdictions implement even stricter policies.  Is there any reason why we can't evaluate their experiences before committing to a national course?

          When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

          by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 06:32:20 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  becauce bring stuff in from across the border (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            WakeUpNeo, LilithGardener

            changes the landscape. What good laws in Dc when you can get anything you want form VA? Chicago guns come from MO and KY, I'm told.

            Gotta be national.

            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

            by Greg Dworkin on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 06:38:28 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Re: (0+ / 0-)

              This is also an area that bears considerably better research.  No one really knows the scale of the interstate secondary market, legitimate or otherwise.  We don't know if its negligible compared to intrastate transfers or not.  A great deal is made of trace data (from no random sample) showing a small number of dealers responsible for crime guns showing well outside of their principal state of operations, but that discounts both the inter-retailer and legitimate secondary trade paths a gun may have walked (also interesting to note that almost all of those retailers are wholesalers).

              Bottom line, it may have to be national.  But we don't know that yet.

              When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

              by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 06:49:00 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Delay, delay, delay. (0+ / 0-)
            Is there any reason why we can't evaluate their experiences before committing to a national course?
            Nice talking point.
            •  Re: Why delay? (0+ / 0-)

              We could get started tracking this shit down this week.  And we know where we can get the money to do so.

              When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

              by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 06:50:09 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Sorry. Forgot the /snark tag. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                LilithGardener

                It appeared you were suggesting we should delay any national action on gun control, pending more research.

                We would already have much of the needed data but for this:

                "Silencers"...

                Silencing the science on gun research

                •  Re: Not at all. (0+ / 0-)

                  On background checks and auditability, the due diligence required to inform a good law could probably disposed of within weeks.  

                  When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

                  by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 07:18:33 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  We already know about the gun show loophole (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    WakeUpNeo

                    and what to do about it.

                    Frankly, I don't know how ethical FFLs compete with private party sales, AKA unlicensed dealers, AKA private gun trafficking.

                    You can pretend we don't know what the problems are if you want to, but New York used to be a murder capital, and it took a variety of initiatives to make progress.


                    We don't even have checkpoints at all state border crossings!

                    "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                    by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 07:34:39 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Re: (0+ / 0-)

                      Actually, we don't know what to do about it.  If what to do about it means getting something out the Senate, let alone the House.  Or maybe we do, but it's not being reported on yet.  However, I'm almost certain if it's come to that then background checks don't mean what you think they mean.

                      Would you care to describe what gun control measures above and beyond and, most importantly, between the state-wide Sullivan Act and the state-wide SAFE Act contributed to New York's success in driving down its homicide rate?

                      When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

                      by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 07:41:28 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Would if I could but that's above my pay grade nt (0+ / 0-)

                        "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                        by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 07:58:50 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Re: (0+ / 0-)

                          If we're going to claim that some gun regulations have made for a safer New York, shouldn't we be able to identify what those were?

                          When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

                          by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 08:00:57 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Of course we should, and (0+ / 0-)

                            you are part of "we" right?

                            I'm a big fan of people making up their own minds. Go right ahead and do your own research. I'm sure it's available if you want to find it. And if you do and send me a kosmail alerting me to what you find, I'll look at it.

                            I was taught to shoot straight at the age of 10 and grew up with firearms. Don't currently own a gun, but might want to in some future chapter of my life. Frankly, I think some of the progress will have to come at the regional, state and local level.

                            What works for NYC with a large population of firearm naive adults is not necessarily what will work in Wyoming where I would expect there are a majority of adults are firearm literate. (for lack of a better term)

                            The utility/injury risk is very different for someone living in Idaho on 500 acres compared to someone living in Brooklyn in 1000 square feet.

                            "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                            by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 08:18:21 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

          •  A New York Experience - prevent school shootings (0+ / 0-)

            17,000 schools
            1.1 million students
            635,000 K-8 students

            Mass shootings?
            Zero

            How many shootings, I don't know.

            Our secret?

            1. Pay higher taxes.

            2. People don't have firearms in homes or vehicles. (Concealed carry permit requires police approval).

            3. Let the police take care of it.

            And no, the schools aren't all guarded by police 24/7. There are plenty of elementary and middle schools where the public can walk right in the front door.

            "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

            by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 07:23:26 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Re: (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              LilithGardener

              Well, some city dwellers have firearms in homes or vehicles.  Wealthy, connected people.  Considerably more (upwards 1.5 million) state-wide certainly have firearms, and it's a hell of a lot easier and friendlier to get a gun once you get out of the stifling mess of the city.  

              When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

              by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 07:48:33 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Okay - have there been school shootings (0+ / 0-)

                elsewhere in New York State?

                Wouldn't the number of schools and students upstate and on long island bolster the stats from my prior comment?

                "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 08:02:58 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Re: (0+ / 0-)

                  Last post on this.  I didn't mean to hijack Greg's diary with this.

                  But Wikipedia counts 18 school shootings since the Sullivan Act's enactment in New York City alone:

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/...

                  When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

                  by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 08:06:36 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You know the Sullivan Act passed in 1911, (0+ / 0-)

                    right?

                    "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                    by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 08:19:41 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Correct me if I'm wrong (0+ / 0-)

                    I took a look at the page you linked to and by my skim read, NYC had it's last mass shooting in a school in 1910.

                    A student used an automatic pistol.

                    All of the others are single gunshots, some of them are accidents (when at least one school still had a shooting range), and at least one was by police.

                    That's a century-long record and I'm quite impressed, thank you for pointing it out.

                    "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                    by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 08:40:30 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  We also have thousands of buildings guarded (0+ / 0-)

                by unarmed men, many of whom are a bit on the older side.

                They are called doormen.

                "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 09:35:49 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  New York has been studying the gunshow (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            WakeUpNeo

            loophole for many years already and has instituted new Best Practices to support FFL and gun show operators to ensure that all firearms transfers at gun shows in New York State include a background check.

            The term "gunshow loophole" actually covers three kinds of sales that are already illegal but occur in large numbers every weekend, somewhere. The volume of sales is large is currently large. I don't see how licensed dealers can compete with unlicensed dealers.

            Illegal Sale #1: I don't think I could pass a background check

            Illegal Sale #2: My friend is here to do some paperwork for me. (The so called straw buyer)

            The Loophole: Private sellers who aren't private sellers. (They are selling a volume of firearms that should require a Federal Firearms License).

            For more detail, follow the links and read the report available from the homepage:
            An investigation by NYPD in 2009
            http://www.gunshowundercover2009.org/

            A follow-up investigation by NYPD in 2011 two weeks after the mass shooting in Tuscon, AZ
            http://www.gunshowundercover.org/

            New York State Attorney General investigated sales within NYS and prosecuted 10 sellers who were selling firearms without doing background checks. Since then NYS AG has worked with the industry to develop best practices and hold the show operators responsible for oversight to check which guns were sold and ensure that background checks were performed by all sellers.

            Following A.G. Schneiderman’s Investigation, Two Of New York's Largest Gun Show Operators Agree To New Guidelines To Protect The Public
            http://www.ag.ny.gov/...

            Albany gun show promoter signs on to AG’s procedures
            http://blog.timesunion.com/...

            Summary: This is about regulating the transfer of firearms to protect the right of lawful gun owners AND firearms dealers, from unscrupulous dealers who sell firearms without a background check.

            "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

            by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 07:30:51 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Re: FYI (0+ / 0-)

              Studies are not Youtube videos, press releases or news stories.  Hope that helps.

              When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

              by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 07:50:47 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  That's why I included links to both the AG (0+ / 0-)

                and to a local paper upstate, where people are very interested in and depend on gunshows. It's similar to a fair or a farmshow for them and some are held right on the  grounds of the state capital in Albany.

                "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 08:06:08 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

      •  How many bodies do you require? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LilithGardener

        And what are these "quack treatments" of which you speak?

  •  Sweet, pitch-perfect cartoon! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Glen The Plumber, LilithGardener

    "They come, they come To build a wall between us We know they won't win."--Crowded House, "Don't Dream It's Over."

    by Wildthumb on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 04:01:22 PM PST

  •  Glad research is #1 (6+ / 0-)

    I did not know until 12/14 that research was being blocked, even to the point of not allowing physicians to ask about guns in homes. Grants were taken away, laws were made prohibiting information - incredible reach of the gun lobby (and companies).
    Also did not know that the NRA only had 4ish million members - what a joke that a teeny amount of the population has so much control over what happens to the rest of us.
    Thanks for sharing Greg.

    Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up. A. A. Milne

    by hulibow on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 04:17:56 PM PST

    •  amazing, ain't it? (5+ / 0-)

      makes you shake your head in wonderment.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 04:52:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Re: (0+ / 0-)

        Still have to ask, Greg.  Is research being blocked?  In a 1996 appropriation, $2.6 million was cut from CDC for the injury centers.  It's been 17 years since then.  The President's executive order lifting the "ban" on CDC research into firearms injury and mortality obviously didn't run afoul a statute, otherwise it would be an illegal order.  And seriously, are you telling me in 17 intervening years not one of 50 states and God knows how many private interests--including Mayor Bloomberg--couldn't sponsor research in firearms injury and mortality to the tune of $2.6 million a year?  Or $10 million, as the President now proposes?

        Or is the problem deeper and more mundane, like the lack of useful observables?

        Gun violence may be a public health issue, but it doesn't lend itself to data collection like any other public health issue you approach.  Hospital data tells you about injury and mortality, but generally doesn't code how the injury or death occurred.  We don't even have a reliable dataset on GSW calibers, which might tell us a good deal more about crime guns than surveys of police records.  Beyond the use of a few statistical tools, the connection between gun violence and epidemiology is as tenuous as the connection between criminology and thorasic surgery..

        When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

        by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 06:19:37 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  see data points above (3+ / 0-)

          intimidation is intimidation and you have to understand the difference between advocates and activists.

          Public health folks are advocates, wanting to do the right thing for public health. they are not activists, for the most part. Their jobs and careers depend on not rocking the boat too much. it is unfair and unreasonable to expect them to buck their political masters.

          I remember being in the CDC EOC during a flu drill with Bush and Cheney staring at me from the walls (in that era, only Fox was permitted to be on the screen monitoring media).  Creepy.

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 06:33:47 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Re: (0+ / 0-)

            Okay, for now I'll accept that CDC employees and researchers were intimidated for 17 years by a 1996 defunding of Mark Rosenberg's injury center.  Hell, I'll even accept that for pretty much President Clinton's second term (1994 most have traumatized the man) and all of the Bush years it was a pretty dark and evil time for firearms researchers looking for CDC funding.  Or NIH funding.  Or funding from any federal agency.

            So what about the states?  What about Mike Bloomberg?  We're only talking about a couple of million; one or two investigators each on a 2-5 year study.  $10 million will buy you five times as many.  Apparently $2.6 million was enough to study gun injury and mortality in 1996.  $2.2 million was spent on putting a Democrat in a guaranteed Democratic seat in IL-02 in 2012.  Are we really that hard up for money?

            When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

            by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 07:16:25 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  And then there are the confounding variables (0+ / 0-)

          that may dominate all others - selective enforcement at the local and state level.

          If you don't investigate shootings, then you don't find the shooters.

          If you don't keep records of gun transfers than it's a lot harder to trace their origin.

          If the majority of people you stop and frisk are young black and latino men than the majority of firearms you seize will be from young black and latino men.

          I'm sure you already know all this. I'm just pointing it out to others who may be persuaded by your rhetoric.

          "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

          by LilithGardener on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 09:44:02 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you Greg for your work. (5+ / 0-)

    We have friends in the area with kids who still don't want to go to school. We loved living in Newtown and for us it is still too painful to talk about. May God bless you.

    "Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Matthew 5:11

    by parsonsbeach on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 04:56:03 PM PST

  •  Re: Greg (0+ / 0-)

    With you on tenet groups I, II, and III.  But not IV.  And there's the rub.

    When God gives you lemons, you find a new god.

    by Patrick Costighan on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 05:39:46 PM PST

  •  Good on y'all, Dem.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Greg Dworkin, LilithGardener

    I have been appalled this week in watching three shows which are outrageous in the level of violence and killing:

    Southland, where police violence is glorified, and they depicted a school shooting with graphic images of head shots

    Person of Interest, where mass killing happens every week

    Nikita, where spies run loose killing people.

    TVBizwire lists 40 shows with an average of 132 killings per week.

    That rate is almost comparable to real life.

    @gundeaths is now tracking gun homicides in the US.  We should also be tracking the number of homicides on TV.

    We will never be free from fear as long as we fear the NRA.

    by captainlaser on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 08:37:52 PM PST

  •  And for good news (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Greg Dworkin, LilithGardener

    Maryland's Senate voted to ban the sales of assault weapons in Maryland and to require handgun permits for purchase of weapons.

    I met my Delegate to the State House and she said the bill will sail through the House and be signed by the Governor this year.

    Kudos to the Maryland legislature for standing up to the NRA.

    We will never be free from fear as long as we fear the NRA.

    by captainlaser on Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 08:40:51 PM PST

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