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Given Sunday's posting on a special place in Utah, near Green River (http://www.dailykos.com/...) we mosey south and west to Arizona and will find ourselves in an entirely different planed topography, where a sizable visitor from outer space made a great big hole in the landscape, Meteor Crater. Like the San Rafael Swell desiring a national monument status, this privately owned facility wouldn't mind having the same status. However, so far the crater is dubbed a landmark. Question is: Would you pay to see this crater pictured above? Some 200,000 annual visitors think it's worth the time. You tell me. Meanwhile, this diary's virtual tour can be thought of as partially extraterrestrial and terrestrial. But you will find no aliens and spacecraft here. Best you drive farther east after the tour and visit Roswell, New Mexico for that sort of thing.  

Location/Geography: In east central Arizona, about 43 mile east of Flagstaff (exit 233, I-40). Closest city: Winslow. High desert country at an elevation of about 5,709 feet above sea level.

Spotlight: Gaping cosmic crater, the first such discovered by humans. Focus: recent human history, speculation, meteorites and geology.

Snapshot: Some 50,00 years ago, a rather large meteorite slammed into this region. Its impact left a gaping saucer-shaped crater and this so-called impacter surely made a big noise and created a brilliant explosion heard and seen for hundreds of miles. Of course, there were no humans around to witness such a startling event. Today, the preserved impression remains a significant and altered topographical contour because of the desert climate of this region. Desert environs also tend to preserve rather than erode or fill. Through the years this relatively sizable indent has been called by various names: the Canyon Diablo Crater (Devil Canyon), Canyon Diablo Meteorite, and the Barringer Crater. In time, today’s designate Meteor Crater found favor because of a regional and former Arizona Post Office named Meteor. The meteor, an anomaly from outer space, left its astral hallmark about 3.5 miles west of Devil Canyon. Daniel Barringer was the first to suggest the aberrant extraterrestrial footprint had been produced by a meteorite. The crater is also privately owned by the Barringer family under the auspices of the Barringer Crater Company. This company proclaimed the crater was the first proven, best-preserved meteorite crater on earth. So far, this assertion remains unchallenged. More about this point is explained further along. To date, there have been roughly one hundred-seventy impact craters discovered around the world. Meteor Crater measures 4,000 feet in diameter and 570 feet in depth. The crater is surrounded by a rim that rises 150 feet above the surrounding desert plains. The center of its basin is filled with 700 to 800 feet in depth of spent rubble lying above the crater bedrock.

Diagram of an impact crater structure:

From an article originally appeared in the Space Science Reference Guide, Second Edition, Lunar and Planetary Institute, 2003
(Continues after the fold.)

Guided Tour Essentials: One of the more notable features of Meteor Crater’s extraterrestrial visitor is its squared-off outline. Believed to be caused by preexisting regional jointing (cracks) in the strata at the impact site, the telltale crater was created during the Pleistocene Epoch (2.5 million to 12,000 years ago). This geologic epoch is also a fairly recent period of repeated glacial advances on a global scale; a time when the local climate on the Colorado Plateau was much cooler and more humid. Hence, the entire region was not the desert landscape we see today. It was instead a vast, open grassland accented with woodland and marshy places. Hard to believe the region once looked like this, but it's true. More than likely no humans lived here, though such primitive beasts as wooly mammoths and giant ground sloths freely roamed. The flash of the large object penetrating the atmosphere must have been frightening to these and other life forms that witnessed the spectacle. That nickel-iron meteorite was once estimated by scientists to be 54 yards across. Its blazing mass slammed into the plain at a speed of several kilometers per second. However, in recent years the meteor's momentum has been a subject of debate.

Regardless its speed, its signature sure left a sizable impression!

Initially, modeling suggested the meteorite struck at a speed of up to 45,000 miles per hour (equates to 20 kilometers per second), while more recent researchers suggest the impact was substantially slower, possibly closer to 28,600 m.p.h. (12.8 k.p.s.) is more accurate. There are also questions about the actual size of the meteor at time of impact. For example, this later estimate of impact speed relies on the general assumption the meteor was roughly half the original size of 330,693 short tons (300,000 metric tons) in bulk. Before it even struck the ground, the crater had partially vaporized, then after the impact fragments were blown from the surviving mass. Thus very little of the original mass remains. The only physical evidence we have is its gaping impression. Fortunately, due to the predominant dry climate it's as if this monstrous-sized ball of rock from outer space had struck the ground just weeks or months ago. Visitors traveling I-40 take the exit and take time-out to see this epic crater site, simply to see the awesome and destructive power of what meteors can do once their mass penetrates the atmosphere and makes landfall. True, it's wide-open desert terrain, mostly flat and habitual scenery, but for a change it's the destination that counts, not the journey.

Look out below!

Geology: This particular meteorite has the composition and classification of iron octahedrite (the most common class of iron meteorites and primarily composed of the nickel-iron alloys taenite (one of four known Fe-Ni meteorite minerals), which has a high nickel content, and kamacite (a major constituent of iron meteorites), which is the opposite. Other minerals include graphite (carbon), chromite (iron magnesium chromium oxide), base metal sulfides, troilite (a variety of the iron sulfide mineral, pyrrhotite), and haxonite (iron nickel alloy). Haxonite is also the most common component. However, people generally figure meteorites are nickel-iron anomalies and let it go at that.

What impactors look like up close (only most 'shooting stars' through the atmosphere are about the size of pea or at best the size of a nickel.

The Discoverers: Grove Karl Gilbert, chief geologist for the United States Geologic Service (USGS), was the first official investigator of the crater in 1891. However, he erroneously concluded that it was the result of a volcanic steam explosion (caused by groundwater mixing with hot lava or magma). Although he knew what an impact crater was, Gilbert assumed that if the mutant impression was caused by a meteorite, then the volume of its crater, as well as meteoritic material, should be present on the rim. Gilbert then made another erroneous assumption: He assumed that a large portion of the meteorite should still be buried in those relatively greater depths and therefore would generate a large magnetic rarity. Indeed, his base calculations showed the volume of the crater and the debris on the rim were roughly equivalent so that the mass of the hypothetical impactor was missing. Moreover, he discovered there were no magnetic anomalies. From this assertion, he deduced that meteorite fragments found on the rim were simply coincidental. In 1892, Gilbert would also be among the first to propose that the moon's craters were caused by impact rather than volcanism. One out of two findings––not bad!

Grove Karl Gilbert portrait

Daniel Barringer was the next to explain the enigmatic crater. A mining engineer and astute businessman, in 1903 he countered Grove's hypothesis by suggesting the crater had been produced by the impact of a large iron-metallic meteorite. Barringer's company, the Standard Iron Company, soon filed for a patent on the property which was approved by by President Theodore Roosevelt. Barringer marked off 640 acres (2.6 sq. km) around the center of the crater, defining the boundaries of the site. His claim was further divided into four quadrants which he named, coming from the center clockwise from northwest, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. Clever, that. Three years later, President Roosevelt authorized the establishment of a newly named Meteor, Arizona, Post Office. (Until then the closest Post Office was in Winslow, some 30 miles). The disputed crater (by scientists) was officially on the map. Between 1903 and 1905, Standard Iron Company conducted research on the crater's origins and confirmed Barringer's findings: The crater had indeed been caused by an impactor from outer space. Barringer and his partner, Benjamin Chew Tilghman, a mathematician and physicist, also a soldier and inventor, documented evidence for the impact theory in papers presented to the USGS. Initially, Barringer's arguments were met with skepticism because of a reluctance to consider the role of meteorites in terrestrial geology. Nevertheless, he persisted and sought to bolster his theory by locating the remains of the meteorite itself (with the assumption Gilbert might be correct about such remains deeper below the ground). At the time of first discovery by Europeans, the surrounding desert plains were found to be littered with about 30 tons (27 metric tons) of large oxidized iron meteorite fragments. From this evidence Barringer believed the bulk of the impactor could still be found beneath the crater floor.

Daniel Berringer

FYI: The oldest known impact crater was fairly recently discovered to have slammed into the Earth in what is now Greenland (reported 6/28/2012). It is claimed a massive asteroid or comet collided with our planet a billion years before any other known collision. (http://www.sciencedaily.com/...) Previously, it was thought the oldest known crater had formed roughly 2 billion years ago. Scientists tells us those awesome and telltale lunar craters were also formed in the same way sometime between 3 and 4 billion years ago. It is also thought the Earth in its early forming must have experienced even more collisions at this time (because it was the larger of the two bodies).

From history’s perspective, Barringer’s reasoning was sound. The science of impact physics, however, was also poorly understood in those years. He was also unaware that most of the meteorite had vaporized upon hitting the ground. Indeed, he spent twenty-seven years trying to locate a large deposit of meteoric iron. During his lengthy search, he drilled to a depth of 1,376 feet, yet no significant deposit was ever found. Part of his passion for the project came from ambitious plans for mining the iron ore. He estimated from the size of the crater that the meteorite had a mass of some 100 million tons (90,720,000 metric tons). Ironically, the current estimate of 300,000 tons (272,155 metric tons) is closer to the truth. Iron ore of the type found at the crater was also highly valued at the time, selling for one hundred and twenty-five dollars a ton. In effect, Barringer believed he was searching for a mother lode worth more than a billion dollars! Although many geologists remained skeptical of the crater's meteoritic origins, as recently as the 1950s the notion became more acceptable. That’s because planetary science had gained notable acceptance in understanding cratering processes. Thus it is the value of knowledge shifted away from economics and headed, instead, toward science.

Enter the next important thinker in Meteor Crater's evolution of thought and origin, Eugene M. Shoemaker, a renown professor of geology then and now. He was also one of the founders of the specialized field of planetary science. It wasn't until 1960 that he confirmed Barringer's hypothesis. The key discovery was the presence in the crater of the mineral stishovite (extremely hard, dense tetragonal form––polymorph––of silicon dioxide). This mineral is a rare form of silica found only where quartz-bearing rocks have been severely shocked by excessive heat and an instantaneous overpressure. However, he realized extreme overpressure cannot be created by volcanic action. Instead, the only known mechanisms of creating such results is either naturally through an impact event or artificially through a nuclear explosion. Professor Shoemaker's discovery is considered the first definitive proof of an extraterrestrial impact on the planet's surface. Since then, numerous impact craters have been identified around the world (which he found numerous settings). For example, Tuscany, Italy's crater-shaped terrain, and Siberia's Popigai and Tunguska craters. Nonetheless, Meteor Crater remains one of the most visually impressive impressions in the planetary crust due to its size, young age and lack of vegetation.

Astral Geology-Turned-Terrestrial: The impact created at Meteor Crater is called an inverted topography. This geologic term refers to landscape features that have reversed their elevation relative to other local features. Such abrupt changes to landscape most often occur when lower areas become filled with lava or sediment. Later, the lava (or sediment) congeals into a material that is more erosional resistant than the base material surrounding it. In short, it’s a process of differential erosion that removes the less resistant surrounding material, leaving a residue of the younger and have resistant material. This remaining material may then appear as a telltale ridge where previously there was a valley. In the case of Meteor Crater, the layers immediately exterior to its rim are stacked in an opposite order than they normally occur. Thus the impact overturned and inverted the layers to a distance of between 1 to 1.2 miles outward from the crater's edge. Climbing the rim of the crater from the outside, the formations from top-to-bottom, also oldest-to-youngest in this order are the following: Coconino Sandstone, Toroweap Formation, Kaibab and Moenkopi (270million to 200 million years ago). However, in the interior of the crater the layers are in the expected order.

Visitor Center: The crater site remains the property of a private consortium held by the original owners and may someday be designated a national monument. Situated on the north rim of the crater, the totally new and improved Meteor Crater's Visitor Center has recently changed its former mediocre display to a series of kiosks that thoroughly explain the history and science of what happened here long ago. The center also features interactive science exhibits and displays about meteorites and asteroids, space, the solar system and comets. A large-screen theater and movie production shows and explains the background to help visitors visually comprehend the nature of this or any impact crater.

The Visitor Center also features the American Astronaut Wall of Fame, including an Apollo boilerplate command module (a nonfunctional craft, system, or payload which is used to test various configurations and basic size, load, and handling characteristics.

Capsule on display (compliments of NASA)

Previously mentioned, a 1,406 pound (637 kilogram) meteorite found in the area is also on display, as well as meteorite specimens from Meteor Crater that can be touched.

Photo by Susanne Van Hulst

Bonus Details: The nearly two hundred impact craters discovered on the planet's surface range in diameter from a few tens of feet/meters up to a whopping 186 miles. These craters range in age from very recent (the Sikhote-Alin craters in Russia, whose creation were witnessed in 1947) to more than 2 billion years ago. However, most are fewer than 201 million years old because of geological processes that obliterate older craters. Generally, impact craters are found in stable interior regions of continents. To date, very few undersea craters have been discovered. The reason has to do with difficulty of surveying the sea floor; also, the ocean bottom changes fairly rapidly. Oceanic physiographic changes include the subduction process of tectonic plates into the deeper interior of the planet, which easily disguises what could be hundreds of larger meteorite strikes from millions to billions of years ago. Certainly, impact craters are not to be confused with other landforms that might appear similar. For instance, calderas (collapsed volcanoes) and ring dikes (intrusive igneous bodies) resemble crater impressions.

Sometimes Size Really Does Matter: As remarkable as is Arizona's Meteor Crater, it is still not among the forty-two largest impact craters thus far discovered. The five largest are Vredefort (South Africa) at 186 miles in diameter, Sudbury (Ontario, Canada) at 155 miles, Chicxulub (Yucatan, Mexico) at 105 miles, Manicouage (Quebec, Canada) at 60 miles and Popigai (Siberia) at 60 miles. For the United States, Chesapeake Bay is sixth on the list at 55.9 miles. Despite Meteor Crater ranking for size, it's still considered the best preserved and certainly one of the most attractive impact craters this side of the moon.

Directions: From Flagstaff, Arizona, take I-40 east, 43 miles and about halfway between Winona and Winslow (Exit 233). Site is 6 miles south of the interstate.

Contact Information: Meteor Crater Enterprises, Inc., P. O. Box 30940, Flagstaff AZ 86003-0940. Phone (administrative office) 800-289.5898; local 928-289.5898; Fax 289.2598. Email: non-listed.

One of the most celebrated sci-fi films has its conclusion here at Meteor Crater:

I'll leave you with some of the most memorable dialogue in this film. It's between the Starman (played by Jeff Bridges) and the SETI guy who is trying to help him escape (played by Charles Martin Smith):

Mark Shermin: Have people from your world been here before?
Starman: Before yes. We are interested in your species.
Mark Shermin: You mean you're some kind of anthropologist? Is that what you're doing here? Just checking us out?
Starman: You are a strange species. Not like any other. And you'd be surprised how many there are. Intelligent but savage. Shall I tell you what I find beautiful about you?
[Shermin nods]
Starman: You are at your very best when things are worst.

Parting shots:

That sort of thing went on a long time ago (and there will be other impactors visiting from beyond). Just be thankful for our atmosphere. Otherwise, we might have looked like this:

Parting artist's poster shot (one of my favorites, and so is this classic airplane):

And so, DKos community, we come to the end of another trail, another armchair tour. There will be other scenic places to tour and more supplemental topics to read and think about, so stay tuned for a continuation in this series.

As always, your thoughtful commentaries are welcomed.

Rich
http://www.nmstarg.com/...
http://www.grandcanyon.org/...

FYI: For a list of all diaries posted to date, please see the growing inventory by clicking on my profile or by dialing in this URL: http://www.dailykos.com/...

Also, if commenting on an older diary, please send an email to my profile account. That way I am sure to notice it and respond in a timely manner. Gracias.

Note: Under the "Fair Use" protocol, which is a limitation and exception to the exclusive right granted by copyright law to the author of a creative work, photographs, pictures and illustrations, including maps (that are not my own personal property), posted in my diaries provide for the legal, unlicensed citation or incorporation of copyrighted material in use of another author's work under a four-factor balancing test. Ergo, the diary posts are strictly for an educational purpose and are transformative (using an image in a broader story or educational presentation with text). In short, my diaries are promoting an educational presentation intended only to help Daily Kos community members learn more about the many topics my diaries feature.

Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 9:23 AM PT: Folks, I just want to clarify this diary was and is meant only to draw attention to Meteor Crater and NOT defame the likes of Winslow and such. I am hearing from people who feel otherwise, and of course, there are some disparaging aspects about this town, like any other town or city in America. But Winslow is truly a historical center in its own right, which has nothing to do with the contemporary times. I believe I have convinced a member or two in our community to write a diary along such lines. You will be amazed to hear the interesting history of this town and the surrounding region. If those folks don't come through, then I will personally publish a diary along such lines.

Originally posted to SciTech on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 01:16 PM PDT.

Also republished by Baja Arizona Kossacks, National Parks and Wildlife Refuges, Astro Kos, Phoenix Kossacks, and Community Spotlight.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Thanks for the post. (15+ / 0-)

    We were just out at the crater in August of 2012.  Entry is not cheap but I can't say that I wasn't impressed.  Even the then 13 year old boran2 boy was impressed, no small feat.  

    I'm not always political, but when I am I vote Democratic. Stay Democratic, my friends. -The Most Interesting Man in the World

    by boran2 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 01:29:35 PM PDT

    •  Yep, pricey. . . (9+ / 0-)

      and when you get a 13-year-old impressed about anything other than what 13-year-olds are generally interested in, you've got a winner. Perhaps a future scientist type, do you think? Anyway, thanks so much for posting the comment. I think I'll email those folks that run the show, and tell them to give our community a special discount, just because its freebie advertisement. Do you think that'll work, boran2?

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 04:12:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  As I recall from a visit there many years ago, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      boran2

      the main point of the visitors' center was to get the tourists to buy some expensive doodad before they jumped back in the car.  And I was really irritated to find that you could only get into the crater, rather than just walking around the rim, by paying and additional fee.

      Play chess for the Kossacks on Chess.com. Join the site, then the group at http://www.chess.com/groups/view/kossacks.

      by rhutcheson on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 10:53:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  your comment. . . (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        boran2

        and my reply. . .that tactic has not changed, rhutcheson. When confronted by this charge (by others), the management said it was for the safety of visitors on 'their' established property, meaning, they own the site, or lease same from the State of Arizona. Well, there you have it. . .is the purpose of the 'herd 'em into the crater rim view' via the visitor's center and kiosks. . .or for safety? Let me know what you decide is the right answer here. HA!

        Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

        by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 10:59:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  There is actually a brief film now. (0+ / 0-)

        Not that it gave very much information.

        I'm not always political, but when I am I vote Democratic. Stay Democratic, my friends. -The Most Interesting Man in the World

        by boran2 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 06:20:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  that film. . . (0+ / 0-)

          at the VC, you mean; on the fast-flying chuck-a-rock that hit the dirt, as it were? Yeah, I mentioned that in a comment or two. It's a decent enough film, so I think it's worth stopping in and see the show before headed out the door and seeing the results. Anyway, thanks for mentioning this again, because it's all part of the center's panache for charging the high tariff. I guess.

          Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

          by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 06:31:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I loved "Starman." (7+ / 0-)

    Haven't been to the Crater in many years. Sure wish they'd make it a national monument or something, as you suggest; if you have kids it can set you back nearly $50 -- and then there's the gift shop. Thanks, as usual, great stories and photos!

    stay together / learn the flowers / go light - Gary Snyder

    by Mother Mags on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 01:40:54 PM PDT

    •  you're right . . . (5+ / 0-)

      and I'm glad you broke that news. I didn't want to say anything, but those folks could maybe make a concession for the elderly and discounts for parents with kids. They did, however, spend millions in the new visitor center (have you seen it yet?) and when I was teaching for NAU and took a group of Road Scholars to the crater, for a morning's class, the management was complaining about the high cost of the renovation. It's a private enterprise, by the way. Anyway, they really are hoping for NM status, Mother Mags, but I'm not sure they're going to get it. Anyway, thanks for breaking that news. It's pricey all right, but still worth the time and a visit and a look-see.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 04:10:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I haven't been there since they built the visitor (0+ / 0-)

        center.

        It's actually extremely fortunate and somewhat surprising that the crater wasn't extensively degraded by various earth movers and bulldozers. That was the natural instinct of the time.

        I think it would make an excellent national monument.

        Also: if you happen to be flying over this part of the country, it is readily visible from a commercial airliner. I've seen it that way several times.

        Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

        by elfling on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 11:09:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  lucky, yes, (0+ / 0-)

          but Beringer, thanks to him and his noble ideas (of making tons of money) had friends in the right places, and so the crater got its protection in another way. . .which in this is commercialization, and something to boast about, because for a change such enterprise favors a setting and does not ruin it.

          Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

          by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 01:19:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Google Earth (8+ / 0-)

    has great views from around the rim.

    I would like a new world.
    I love that new world odor.

    by Ex Con on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 01:50:56 PM PDT

  •  Make a trip of it! (17+ / 0-)

    If you're coming out this way, or would like an excuse to, there's plenty to do and see out here.  

    First of all is the big one - the Grand Canyon.  It's a couple of hours from Meteor Crater.  If you're staying in Flagstaff or Williams, then it's only an hour to the Canyon.  If you've never seen it, well, you have to.  It will really make you understand how small we are and it's beautiful.

    The Painted Desert/Petrified Forest National Parks are about 45 minutes east of Meteor Crater.  It's one combined park, and worth exploring.  You can do it as quickly or as slowly as you'd like.  The Painted desert in particular can be amazing, especially if there are any clouds to shift the sunlight around.

    While you're in Holbrook, stop by Joe & Aggie's Cafe.  They have delicious Mexican food. It's an old family run place and they're very friendly.  I stop every time I go through.

    Wupatki and Sunset Crater are just north of Flagstaff.  Beautiful and fascinating.

    Canyon de Chelly is about two hours from Winslow.  It's drop dead gorgeous.  While you can't go down into the canyon without a guide, there's sightseeing along the rim and you can also hike to Whitehouse Ruins.  (I did get to go deep into the canyon a few years ago and it was amazing.)

    For the history buffs, all of this lies along Route 66! You can not only take in some of the old neon and such along the way, but Arizona has the longest stretch of original 66 left.  It's out past Seligman, a couple of hours from Winslow, and it gets wll away from I-40.  You can stop and take the tour at the Grand Canyon Caverns.

    Northern Arizona is an amazing, beautiful place.  You can go from high desert to colorful mesas to pines in an hour.  If you ever come out to see the crater, make a few days of it!

    •  your comment. . . (4+ / 0-)

      is worthy of a diary in its own right, azpenguin. It's the same terrain these tour series have been covering, and of course, I'll be doing a mega series one of these days (soon) on my other office, the Grand Canyon. Meanwhile, you laid out a nice tour itinerary for the community and I trust some will take your advice and see the sights. And here's some trivia to keep in mind, since you mentioned the Grand Canyon: from its summit to the bottom of the Grand Canyon, which is about 80 miles, all the major ecozones are covered. . .from the alpine tundra, the boreal zones (Canadian and Hudsonian), the Upper and Lower Transition zones (beginning around the Grand Canyon), then the Upper and Lower Sonoran. Everything's there except the Tropical Zone. It's like walking from northern Canada to Central Mexico within those 80 miles. I've done that trek a few times (with students) and it's always amazing to point out how all the ecozones, the critters and plants, show up respective of what was just mentioned. (Use this for your next tour guide's spiel and I'm thinking folks are going to mighty generous with the tips)!

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 04:02:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  a logistics question . . . . (0+ / 0-)

      What's the transportation like for visitors without cars? Is it possible to get places without a car if based in Winslow or Flagstaff?

      •  There's probably several bus tours (0+ / 0-)

        but a car is pretty much essential for this area of the country. There is a train from Williams to the Grand Canyon, and you can take Amtrak to Williams.

        Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

        by elfling on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 11:17:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  the other commentator is right. . . (0+ / 0-)

        meaning, what public transportation? We're talking some of the most highly impacted tourista places, yet shamefully there is hardly anything running, transportation wise, except for the 'ole blue dog, Greyhound, and the like. Amtract, sure, that runs through the 35th Parallel corridor, but from there you either rent a car or thumb a ride. Or bike. Or walk. AS I said, shameful situation given what that State lacks in the way of public services.

        Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

        by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 01:18:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Agreed (0+ / 0-)

      And you haven't even gotten in to some of the other spots on the map, like Sedona and Jerome and the Verde Valley, or Humphrey's Peak which rises to 12,633'.

      (In this part of the country, it's possible in several different itineraries to drive above 10,000' and then below sea level in a single day.)

      You could spend a lifetime roaming interesting places in Arizona.

      Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

      by elfling on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 11:14:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I went (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RiveroftheWest

      to the forest after the Crater tour too !

  •  We used to drive to Texas from.... (10+ / 0-)

    ....California to visit my grandparents in the summer. I always moaned and cried when we past the crater because I wanted to see it, but my dad stopped only to sleep and eat on the way to my grandparents. Finally, in 1999, I drove to New Orleans and then came back through Dallas and on highway 40.

    I finally got to visit the crater. I found it a very worthwhile stop. It just sits there and you just look at it, so I think I appreciated it more as an adult than I would have as a child.  It is really big.

    Now I live near a giant caldera -- the summit of Kilauea volcano. I go there frequently just to stare into the chasm which is a little more interesting than Meteor Crater because it is naturally illuminated at night, with a big red, fiery plume of steam.

    Great diary and I know that all of those who used to travel on old Route 66 will have a flash of remembrance.

    If you hate government, don't run for office in that government.

    by Bensdad on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 01:58:52 PM PDT

    •  thanks, Bensdad, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ladywithafan, elfling

      for the comment and the comparison. Thing is: Meteor Crater's just a great big hole in the ground and that big chasm you stare into, because most of us like doing that sort of thing...looking into deep chasms. . .it's still active. Pretty and all, but oh my, when those babies blow their tops, as it were. Anyway, send us some pics of the glowing caldera. We don't get to see that sort of thing in this part of the country (the Southwest).

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 03:57:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Tipped for 'ironically' - Nice! (4+ / 0-)

    and for one hell of a nice diary and some GREAT photos!

    BTDT. Highly recommended.

    Too late for the simple life, too early for android love slaves - Savio

    by Clem Yeobright on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 02:03:28 PM PDT

    •  and I thank you, Clem (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Clem Yeobright, ladywithafan

      for a complimentary tipped commentary. And thanks for your support on this diary. Once you pay the admission price (ouch!) the rest is pretty neat and fun. (Years ago you could even walk into the crater. That practice has been stopped a long time, however. Ah, it's better viewed from the rim anyway.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 03:55:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  And... (11+ / 0-)

    You can stand on the corner in Winslow, Arizona.  Alas, no girl in a flatbed Ford slows down to take a look at you!

    •  and have you been. . . (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ladywithafan, No Exit

      to Winslow lately? Hmmmm. Standing on the corner could be more dangerous than you think. The town's got a reputation for nefarious stuff. Still, the song is great; the idea is great; so dream on, dream on, AZsparky, and thanks for posting your lyrical comment.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 03:53:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Rich, I've enjoyed all of your recent (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elfling

        diaries, especially the Colorado Plateau, Utah Desert, and the Route 66 Diary. I thought I'd posted a comment to the 66 diary but it must've ended up in the ether. Anyway, the last time I was through Winslow, it was a Sunday morning, so all the nefarious doer's were probably in church, probably the reason I felt safe. Keep the great diaries coming.

        •  I'm laughing. . . (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          elfling

          all the nefarious doer's were probably in church. Only someone who's familiar with Winslow would get the gist of this dynamic observation. Anyway, when I was working for the sheriff's department, Coconino County (Flagstaff), and yep, I've done 'dum' things like that for work (from time to time), I had offers to work at the DOC, there in Winslow. Thanks, but no thank, I told the recruiter. Many of those workers chose to commute (from Flagstaff) or other points west. What does that tell you about living in that gang-rideen and troubled town, where "Take It Easy" (the words to the song) could only be mythical and less than real? HA. Still, the best thing there is the La Posada, and of course, the big crater is fairly close by. So, worth a visit and Winslow enterprises should not be avoided like the plague. I say support 'em, regardless. Living there is another matter altogether.

          Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

          by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 06:55:01 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Say what? (6+ / 0-)

        I was born (1944) and raised in Winslow as was my Mom (1923) and Grandma (1896) and still have a lot of friends there whom I stay in touch with by email. Aside from a huge prison complex south of town, what "nefarious stuff" are you talking about? That's sure news to me.

        I haven't been there since a high school reunion in summer 2007, but my impression was that they had done a lot to recover from the I-40 bypass and the railroad automating and running train crews from all over the place. The refurbished La Posada is a national treasure and a number of artists have settled in for the long haul.

        Good to be careful what you say about these small towns. They exist on something of a shoestring and tourists/visitors are a vital resource who can be easily spooked by "a reputation for nefarious stuff."

        One last point...Winslow has always been a progressive oasis in a sea of Mormon conservatism due to the influence of the railway unions. During the 2004 election John Kerry's campaign train was due to pass thru town and practically the entire population (around 9-10,000) turned out holding signs that said "give us 10 minutes and we'll give you 4 years." Long story short...he did stop, spoke and was late for the "real" event in Flagstaff.

        "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

        by GEldridge on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 10:30:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  La Posada is on our list. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Randtntx, elfling, savano66

          My wife and I have been doing historic Arizona hotels for years; Congress, San Carlos, Weatherford, El Tovar, Hassayampa, Copper Queen, Gadsden. But not La Posada, yet.

          The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

          by Azazello on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 11:05:17 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Worth a visit (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            elfling

            I'm old enough to remember the old La Posada before Fred Harvey shut it down and the Santa Fe RR turned it into its division offices. Them really was the days...with a slower pace and gracious atmosphere. If you want info, take a look at their website

            "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

            by GEldridge on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 11:22:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  thank you so much. . . (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Azazello, elfling

              for posting your comments, GEldridge, and for the website you provided. I just answered your comments, but somehow my remarks vanished. I get confused with hitting this or that icon, at times. Anyway, something tells me you would be a fascinating person to interview give your experience and points taken (in your commentary). I know Mary E. Coulter, as Harvey's prized designer (though she feigned the architect's role, which she was not credentialed in such a bailiwick) did some of her best work not only at the Grand Canyon (the Watch Tower or Hopi House, for example), but also here at the La Posada. A truly wonderful establishment that has been brought back to life by new ownership for the past twenty or so years. And a great restaurant to boot. Upscale, mind you, but still worthy of eating and highly recommended for a nostalgic night's stay. Reminds me, in a slight way, of Gallup's "El Rancho," where the Hollywood movie stars stayed, when filming in that locale (Gallup).

              Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

              by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 06:46:27 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Still wonderin' (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                elfling

                Hey, I'm totally hooked by anyone who calls me "a fascinating person to interview." My family got to Arizona in the 1870s from Arkansas by wagon train ending up in Apache County (Nutrioso, Springerville and St Johns) where they had extensive cattle holdings. I've still got a lot of memorabilia and memories, so if you want to get in touch let me know.

                However, I'm sorry to have lost your Winslow crime blotter info. I shared your post with friends still living in Winslow and am dying to hear what they have to say about their "nefarious" goings on.

                Thanks for your postings which are shedding much-needed light on an area which is of almost unbelievable natural interest as well as being an unforgettable visual treat (and, by the way, with a very colorful history), but is not well known by the US public at large. This was very much the "wild west." My great uncle, Jess Fears, broke horses for the Hashknife Outfit back in the 19-teens and went on to be forest ranger in Tonto Basin and Payson. He had many a hair-raising tale to tell about gunfights and outlaws. And my Uncle Will Rudd was one of the first doctor/lawyer/lawman in the area. It was a wild time.

                I'm still going thru the stuff my family accumulated over the years and came across a small publication you may be interested in called "Two Guns Arizona" which details the railroad's challenges in bridging Canyon Diablo (mentioned in above comments). It was published in 1968 by The Press of the Territorian (Santa Fe NM) and is about 30 pages. If it's out of print and you're interested, let me know.

                Otherwise, keep up the good work in giving much-needed visibility to a fascinating and important area.

                "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

                by GEldridge on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 08:27:15 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  there. . .I told you so. . . (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  elfling

                  your are a most interesting person and I think your next diary about your tales should be posted as a diary...not just commentary. I love the start of what you just submitted. I am going to email you my desire for this, just so you know this is real. I mean, my urging you to share what you know. I love "living history," that is, from those who still tell it while on this side of the grass. Thank you for the follow up. You'll be hearing from me soon and I suspect we may even hear from you soon, as a diary. I think the group, one of them, that I belong to, the History for Kossocks, is going to be receptive to your musings, GEldridge.

                  Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

                  by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 08:49:46 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I look forward to your collaboration (0+ / 0-)

                    sounds really cool!

                    Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

                    by elfling on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 11:21:18 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  collaboration. . . (0+ / 0-)

                      yes, and I believe our Dkos friend and commentator, GEldridge, is going to write a diary on his hometown. And I decided I may be able to come up with a new diary some day soon, entitled "The History Of The Petrified Forest Corridor," which will run the gambit, say, from Albuquerque to Flagstaff, and of course, towns, like Winslow and Holbrook, will get featured. Remind me of this, if you don't mind, because I sometimes have too much on the burners of my brain; these myriad diaries I still want to post.

                      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

                      by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 01:12:32 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

          •  you'll enjoy the rustic hotel. . . (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Azazello, Nebraskablue, elfling

            La Posada, when you finally get there. Prescott's Hassayampa, the El T, and all the others that you mentioned were on my list for stopovers when I ran my ecotourism business (ecosouthwest.com) throughout the Southwest. The La Posada was certainly a treat for the clients, since with its establishment came the fabulous history of Mary Coulter. And since that phase of the tours was connected to the South Rim country, the clients were more than regaled about this chain-smoking, coffee-drinking matriarch of architectural design. I even had a contact in Gallup (New Mexico) who was once a Harvey Girl, and she would continue the discourse, there at the El Rancho. According to her spiel, if you worked for Mary you considered her akin to a drill sergeant and a tough SOB in all respects; otherwise, if you didn't work for her, she was a great gal to listen and talk to. Go figure! I mean, the difference between the two sorts who got to know this fantastic designer-turned-architect (though officially she was never degreed in architecture). Thanks for posting your comments, Azazello.

            Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

            by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 06:51:11 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Interesting about being a progressive (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          elfling

          oasis. That Kerry story is great as well!

          •  as always. . . (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            elfling, Randtntx

            the DKos community finds something interesting to relate to whenever I post a diary. Things I never even thought about, until I'm pointed in such and such a direction. Thanks for posting this comment, Randtntx.

            Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

            by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 06:37:25 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Tipped for the Gillian welch reference. (0+ / 0-)

      I still think revival is her best album...

      Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends. - Gandalf the Grey

      by No Exit on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 03:59:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Rich, your diaries and posts are awesome (6+ / 0-)

    My DK pw references Moab, so it's no surprise I love your articles and photos.

    When you posted your stuff on Arches a short while ago I was tempted to post my personal story about a near-disaster I had there with a friend a couple of summers ago. It's a cautionary tale about how stupidity can really put you in danger. If I have time I'll post it.

    Back in the summers of '64 and '65, my brother worked at the Meteor Crater as an employee of the people who owned the gift shop at the time. I think it was during one of those summers that a couple of people were killed in a small private plane crash on the floor of the crater.

    •  I say goferit. . . (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ladywithafan, foresterbob, elfling

      the personal story, on Arches. I'm going to release, for the first time, a 2-part hiking tour, my own, this coming weekend, on Monument Valley. Might put some folks to sleep, but sometimes I get accused of doing too much writing and research for these diaries and not enough umph. You know? And I have a good eight thou miles backpacking, so I might as well share something with the DKos community. . .and you should, too. I'd be embarrassed to share my 'fa-gow-we' (you know) trek in the Maze (Canyonlands). What a disaster. Hope your hiking trek was better. And, yes, I've done some hairy hikes in the past (read "stupid") given the Grand Canyon's serious backcountry. Anyway, isn't that how we learn the trade if we intend being educator and field guides? I'm thinking. So, thanks for posting your comments bluestatedon and I'm going to be real disappointed if I don't see your diary on Arches. Oh, and I heard that story of the plane crash (since I ended up getting my wings) and I believe the incident was good 'ole altitude density problems, while flying on a hot day and not enough pizazz in the engine works to climb out of that crater. RIP but the flight had to be good up until impact, right? (I know, an old pilot's version of a bad joke.) I had three crashes in my time, by the way. The last one earned me a DOA. But I came back to raise a bit more hell. Obviously.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 05:46:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I saw Meteor Crater when I was very young (5+ / 0-)

    and also visited the Grand Canyon. I was jealous of my sister who took a rubber raft trip through the canyon when she was a teen. I took my first plane flight by myself out of that area before I was ten.

    These days a kids could never have those kinds of adventures unattended by parents.

    I got interested in the earth sciences at a very young age.

    look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

    by FishOutofWater on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 05:27:49 PM PDT

    •  how times have changed. . . (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BachFan, ladywithafan, foresterbob

      now kids are flying airplanes at 10! Well, almost. But whitewater rafting, thru, say, the Grand, is something they're not about to do, as oarsmen. Even as an adult I was (ahem) not proficient (but I got paid by the company to run the trips). Go figure. Anyway, the influence of how you got hooked on earth sciences at such a young age is obvious. I mean, check out the terrain that partly influenced you! Thanks for posting your comment and memories. Look at you now: a big chief science type, I"m thinking.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 05:41:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Went there years ago... (6+ / 0-)

    Didn't know they had a new visitor center. It is a worthwhile excursion but I would also like to tout Sunset Crater which is closer to Flagstaff. It's the site of a volcanic eruption less than 1000 years ago IIRC. You get to see old lava flows up close and personal. Although you cannot climb Sunset Crater, you can climb the adjacent Lenox Crater cinder cone. It's a fairly easy hike but remember you are at nearly 7000' elevation so you tend to get winded easily! Walnut Canyon and Wupatki are also not far and intriguing from an archeological viewpoint.

    Just another faggity fag socialist fuckstick homosinner!

    by Ian S on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 05:39:33 PM PDT

    •  Sunset Crater and such. . . (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elfling

      and I am glad that you mentioned it, Ian S. It's been off-limits for hiking for many years, though before that I did get to walk the rim, once the tough climb to the summit was made. But O'leary, which is one of the larger scoria cones in that vicinity, is do-able (and permitted to climb). It's also a tough climb, and more, since it's much larger. Lenox Crater I did not hike. Tell me about it. And of course, Wupatki, "Long House," in Hopi, I think, is one of my very favorite national monuments. I'll be doing a write-up on same one of these days. Anyway, thanks for posting your comment and for the reminder of, well, an inverse analogy, I guess you can call it, of a crater vs. a rising throne with a crater inside.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 06:36:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I agree, you can get much closer to the geology (0+ / 0-)

      and in many ways this location is more fun.

      Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

      by elfling on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 11:32:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  you mean. . . (0+ / 0-)

        the Sunset Crater and similar. . .or Meteor? I'm thinking the latter. Although there's nothing left of the impactor, being that it destroys the source just before impact. . .it's still a nifty thing to see the revelation of all that geology, the exposed terrain, and compare the sedimentary rocks to, say, the Grand Canyon's upper layers. Thanks, again, for your posting, elfling.

        Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

        by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 01:10:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I read halfway through before I realized (0+ / 0-)

    that it was about the Meteor Crater Landmark.

    I was expecting news about the Meteor Blades monument.

    "Stupid just can't keep its mouth shut." -- SweetAuntFanny's grandmother.

    by Dbug on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 07:24:16 PM PDT

  •  Thanks so much for posting. I found it extremely (0+ / 0-)

    interesting and enjoyable and liked the photographs as well.  Great job!

    •  many thanks. . . (0+ / 0-)

      for your blushing comments. Photos mostly not my own. But someone sure did a great job taking 'em. I sure enjoyed the research on the site, because who'd have thought there would be so much interest in a great big hole with so much history? Who indeed! Anyway, thanks for posting your comments, phrogge prince. (Do I detect a simile to NLP given your moniker?)

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 06:31:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Been there twice (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    elfling

    I saw it once from ground level when I was in eighth grade many years ago, and once again from the air in the mid eighties.  The aerial tour was far superior.  I was flying my little two seat Citabria, and I was able to circle the crater several times from an altitude of 500 feet AGL or so.  My son was along, and he was impressed.  

    •  I am envious. . . (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Steve15, elfling

      flying in a Citabria and getting to see the crater from that perspective. But I can't help mentioning I saw it from my favorite two-winged lady, a Stearman (with a 'shaky' Jake 275 radial), flying out of Gallup, several times in fact. Did a wing-over at about 1,500 AGL and now where's the picture? Ah, that's right. . .I didn't want to take my hand off the stick. I do have a photo, somewhere, of the view, and if I can get it scanned I'll post it later. Anyway, 500 AGL is, I think, a no-no for FAA regs. But I won't tell 'em if you don't. HA! (Very cool craft, by the way, yours; the Stearman was not mine, but owned by a friend. Durnit. Thanks for posting your comment, Steve15. Stick and rudder craft, indeed. Open-cockpit, even better. Love the slight acrid smell washing back from the powerplant.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 06:29:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This comment prompted me.. (0+ / 0-)

        to get my old logbook out.  I hadn't looked at it in years.  It was actually in June 1990 when I made that trip.  I believe that it was uncontrolled airspace in those days, and there were not enough people on the ground to make it a situation of flying above a crowd at a gathering or attraction.  I have (thankfully) forgotten the details of the FARs.

        •  FARS or FARTS. . . (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Steve15

          as we used to call them. That was back in the time, my time, when we flew TCA's and not that damn busy step-down routine the poor pilots are stuck with these days. No sir; back in the time when ATP's had their way with the airwaves. . it was much better. Course, you couldn't then, or now, do a barrel roll off the deck when leaving a strip, but I know folks who have done it. Not me, by the way. I flew with the FARs in mind all the time. HA!

          Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

          by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 02:52:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  visited Meteor Crater a few years ago (0+ / 0-)

    while on my Route 66 trip. Very well done diary bringing back some memories. Thanks.

    It struck me as kind of odd it's privately owned, rather than being a national park or a state park.

    The photos are nice, but really can't capture the enormity of the thing, versus seeing it in person with your own eyes.

    I remember being just totally out of breath after climbing up all the steps to the upper high observation platform, thanks to the thin high-altitude air. That plus a mid-summer heat wave...

    •  thanks for your comments. . . (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elfling

      and a telling of perspective. . .the enormity of the thing in itself is what it is. To think our planet once endured mega hits like this. . .and as they say in politics. . ."It ain't over yet!" (Meaning, we'll continue to suffer at their hands. LOL!) Anyway, this landmark has been solicited to the State of Arizona, for the sake of acquiring a State Park Status, as well as the Federal Government for a national park or monument status. Yet it does not rate such protection in the eyes of either branch. Thus there is only a landmark status granted, for what it's worth, and therefore entirely a private enterprise and/or nonprofit organization (should it come to that) is what the usual consensus on the matter has been (and may be forever).  Anyway, thanks for posting your comment, homerun.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 06:25:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I remember going on a family vacation (0+ / 0-)

    in high school and we visited. You truly can't appreciate the scale of the crater until you are there.

    Sort of like the Grand Canyon - pictures simply can't do it justice.

    Great diary, thanks!

    •  and thanks. . . (0+ / 0-)

      both for the comment and for a comparison to the really big ditch in northern Arizona. As a long-time educator and guide working the Grand Canyon beat, I have often felt the same about perspective and pictures of its backdrop. No matter what you think you're seeing, it's somehow a chimera. Being there in person and seeing through your own eyes. . .it's always a shock to the senses, a pleasant and aesthetic shock I might add. Thanks for posting your comment, Matt Esler.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 06:20:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  North Rim Experience (0+ / 0-)

        I visited the North Rim of GCNP a few years ago, and it's so true that one simply cannot imagine how large the Canyon is; you have to see it in person, with your 360 deg. vision operating, to begin to comprehend how vast it is.

        Thanks again for another wonderful tour-by-diary about the CO Plateau and-its-surroundings area.

        You meet them halfway with love, peace and persuasion, and expect them to rise for the occasion ~ Van Morrison

        by paz3 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 11:34:25 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  one more thing. . . (0+ / 0-)

          about your comment, paz3, on the big ditch of northern Arizona. You're right about it being such a big chasm, because it is: 277.7 miles long; over a vertical mile deep, and 4 to 18 miles wide, with an average of about 10 miles (say, there at Grand Canyon Village starting across at the Bright Angel Lodge, on the North Rim). Anyway, when people tell me, "Hey, Rich; I've been to your office and got to have a look-see," I always retort, "Yeah, which part?" Then they say, "The Grand Canyon. All of it!" "No," I reply, and keep them stringing along; "the canyon is so long you can only see about 1/5 of its size from any particular perspective." Then comes the usual comment, "Ah so, desk-a!" and anyone, even if one is not Japanese, comprehends the meaning. Thanks for posting your comments and I am happy for your support in these missive-diaries. More coming all the time. Tomorrow, for instance, will be a diary on the famous Acoma Pueblo. Stay tuned.

          Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

          by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 01:07:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Took my son there... (0+ / 0-)

    about 13 years ago (we've all been back once, since then). It's eerie. One can almost imagine hearing a very distant echo of the blast.

    "Be just and good." John Adams to Thomas Jefferson

    by ogre on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 09:46:51 PM PDT

  •  ...I've driven there three times... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Azazello, mosesfreeman

    ...went into the museum part and have never been able to fork over the ridiculous, over-the-top price they charge to go look at a hole in the ground. It's the biggest rip-off in the entire USA...

    Ignorance is bliss only for the ignorant. The rest of us must suffer the consequences.

    by paradise50 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 09:58:24 PM PDT

    •  I don't know about that. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dewtx

           This one is $75 a head.

           

      The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

      by Azazello on Tue Mar 19, 2013 at 10:53:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  don't bet me started. . . (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Azazello, Clem Yeobright, dewtx

        on Grand Canyon West. But point well taken. And that sky bridge is a huge draw, all right, for tourism (mostly appealing to the Oriental market, as it turns out), but it is not built directly over the main channel (the Colorado River), but is in a side canyon with a glimpse of the river. The supposed road that was supposed to be paved all the way from just north of Dolan Springs is still a dangerous long ribbon of rough dirt pavement. The Hualapai Nation wants Mohave County to do the blacktop and the County says "It's your land . . . you do it!" Meanwhile, the best idea is to fork out some money for a helo or Twin Otter flight to that sector of the NOT Grand Canyon National Park, because broken or chipped windshields and such may cost you more in the long run. Well, there I went and did it: got started on a long-standing argument about tourism and the responsibility to same. And one more thing: no shoes allowed on the walkway; no cameras and stuff, either, the last time I checked, because when dropped such items can crack the see-through bridge-pavement.

        Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

        by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 06:13:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  and there is that point. . . (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elfling

      to consider, as well, paradise50. As I mentioned to an earlier commentator, the management claims it's the complete renovation of the museum, itself, that racks up the entry fee. Tell you what. . .I will contact management today, cite this diary, and encourage reading same (for those folks), with a specific point of making your point (among others who say or suggest the same thing). When I get an answer I will add their exact words to this diary, as an update. I know only one thing for sure: the last time I spoke to management I heard they are 'barely making it' with costs vs. sponsorship (i.e., the public). Yet someone told me with an average 200K visitors per annum, someone, somewhere, is making a hell of a lot of dinero off the deal. Hmmmmm. Anyway, thanks for posting your comment on this matter. (P.S. I DO NOT work for Meteor Crater Enterprise. . .I'm only the messenger writing up the diary. HA!)

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 06:18:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  by the way . . . (0+ / 0-)

      loved your diary on 'Emergence.' Just didn't get around to posting it, but I at least reminded myself to recommend it. Very refreshing missive considering so much downtrodden stuff that goes on in this world and communication of same.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 02:49:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I've been there, years ago. (0+ / 0-)

    It really is a cool place...

    "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell." ~ Edward Abbey

    by SaraBeth on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 02:29:46 AM PDT

    •  thanks for the comment. . . (0+ / 0-)

      and I'll second the motion, a cool place out in the middle of a seeming nowhere. I've heard some people dubbing the site "Winslow's hole," since it's near the famed city (by way of the Eagle's song, "Take It Easy.")

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 06:08:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Weird red and green in photo below Karl Gilbert (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dewtx

    Am I supposed to wear 3-D glasses?

    •  Hmmmmm..... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ender

      I think the aliens are saying something here. Could be a 3-D photo in the first place, though it doesn't show up that-a-way on my confusor. It's just an overview of the crater itself, Ender.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 06:07:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yep, I dug out a pair of red-blue 3D glasses, (0+ / 0-)

      and they really do make the image pop out in 3D. Cool! I hope you can find a pair of red-blue 3D glasses and see for yourself.

      Men must learn now with pity to dispense; For policy sits above conscience. — William Shakespeare, 'Timon of Athens', Act III, Scene II

      by dewtx on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 12:43:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  thanks. . . (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dewtx

        and I forgot to tell you. . .I did that a while ago. I sometimes even make myself crack up. Oh well, had it not been for you none of the rest of us would've known. I now dub that picture "dewtx, the sleuth's, 3D image." You're famous!

        Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

        by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 01:04:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Crashing Vor and I went there on our (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Clem Yeobright, RiveroftheWest

    evacu-vacation after the Federal Flood here. That, along with looking at the sky at night in the Grand Canyon, helped me deal with what happened to my city then. We are specks in time, and each of us may enjoy our passage as it flows along. All pain is just as fleeting. It was expensive but as you said, worth it - the magnificence of our universe visible on our planet.

    Great diary; thanks.

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty." Mohandas Gandhi

    by cv lurking gf on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 06:51:18 AM PDT

    •  you write like a. . . (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cv lurking gf, RiveroftheWest

      a poet and certainly the prose is there. Thank you for such an interesting commentary and imagery, cv lurking gf. Wow! This community never fails to amaze me. I mean, the talented folks out there, and some of whom, like you, take time to post comments. I don't know where your evacu-vacation started from or when it did, but something tells me maybe Katrina and that area??? Anyway, I loved the philosophical/spiritual import of your message and thank you for posting same.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 07:01:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You are too kind; thank you for those words. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RiveroftheWest

        I, too, am impressed by the caliber of this community, including you.

        CV and I traveled the nation, 6000 miles 'round, starting on August 26th, 2005, a Saturday. Hurricane Katrina was predicted to hit New Orleans dead on, and our trip began driving bumper to bumper, seventy miles an hour, the highway flashing red as we sped the wrong way along with other evacuees heading toward Texas. We sat in a motel room Monday night after spending a day at Crawford protesting and meeting Cindy Sheehan, planning on coming home but instead, there on the television, we watched our city fill with water. A day later we began driving again, further west, and on through New Mexico, Arizona, California, Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, and on until we hit the East Coast and attended the protest in D.C. wearing t-shirts we'd made which read, "I'm from New Orleans and all I've got is this stupid president." Coming home could have been better too, if we'd kept up our guards and understood that just 'cause we were back and so were our neighbors, everything was not going to be alright for a while, and that some could not take it physically or mentally, and accidents would happen.

        Crashing Vor wrote some diaries about our return and has one he puts up yearly or as necessary about what is needed to prepare for emergencies. We've all, here in New Orleans, at Daily Kos, in the United States, the world, have been through so much since then that I don't believe it warrants revisiting. I've gone on too long as it is.

        I'd love to return again to the meteor crater and on to the Grand Canyon though. Some neighbors and we have discussed a trip together this time. Who knows? Your pictures and diary bring back some good memories I'd like them to share.

        "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty." Mohandas Gandhi

        by cv lurking gf on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 04:10:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  words and sentiments good enough. . . (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RiveroftheWest, cv lurking gf

          for your own diary, cv lurking gf. I mean, the contents given what you said in this reply is what this community would like to read and hear more about. I, for one, will be the first to recommend such a diary, if you let me know it's coming out. I don't even care to add my own commentary, because that'd only spoil it. But know that this story is quite touching, quite real, and it pushes all the right buttons. So write! A diary. Meanwhile, you'll return to this neck of the woods some day and when you do get in touch with me via my profile's email. I used to be a tour operator and I know I can tighten your itinerary and get you to the right places and suggest a few you might want to skip. Thanks, again, for your wonderful posting, this commentary that you wrote. I trust live back there in the "Big Easy" is going better for you.

          Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

          by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 04:28:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I will keep in touch; thanks. Life is good (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RiveroftheWest

            here. I moved to NOLA from mountain foothills, and as deeply ingrained as is that need, I love the people too much in this flat city. You should visit here, and CV and I will show you around. It's a pretty wonderful place.

            We may take you up on your generous offer; we and our neighbor girls a few doors down periodically fantasize about a road trip out west. If we can all get the money and time right, we'll be knocking on your door.

            "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty." Mohandas Gandhi

            by cv lurking gf on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 07:08:05 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'll be here. . . (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              cv lurking gf

              flat-land living is good, considering too many people crowd the high country and desert terrain these days. And whenever you're ready to mosey on out here, contact me at my profile email and I'll be happy to take a look at your schedule, consider your interests in what you want to see and do, and draft up an itin. 'Til then, you can always dream of vacations to come. Has to count for something, I'm thinking.

              Rich

              Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

              by richholtzin on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 08:34:48 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Wow -- Just Missed that Parking Lot! (n/t) (0+ / 0-)
    •  well. . . (0+ / 0-)

      you can always come back, do you think? I mean, in case you didn't see the big hole in the ground. Funny thing is, that enterprise knows how to keep folks out because of the perimeter built around their diggings, as it were. Ah well, it's capitalism and everyone's got to make a living, right?

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 06:59:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I have been to Meteor Crater twice (0+ / 0-)

    My father took us all there on the way back from Philmont Boy Scout Ranch, and I took my son there when driving our new Prius from a temporary job in Virginia back to our home in California.

    The best part of the trip was driving through the Mojave Desert, and noticing the constant ecosystem shifts with different ranges of desert plants.

    Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

    by Mokurai on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 07:03:51 AM PDT

    •  your comments. . . (0+ / 0-)

      and the mentioning of constant ecosystems in the Mohave...thanks. Lots of folks don't notice such things going on from inside their vehicles. Apparently, you and your family may have gotten out and stretched your legs (and minds) given such observation. That desert is, in my view, one of the most overlooked of the four deserts in North America. I don't know why this is, but the Sonoran takes the cake given its attention by so many people, and the same with the Great Basin or even the big C. desert, there in Mexico. But I find the Mojave (or Mohave as it's sometimes spelled) a fascinating landscape; a 'warm' desert considering the colder Great Basin Desert environs and the hotter Sonoran. Hence, there is an interesting biotic community mix. In the Grand Canyon's deepest basement rocks and interior all three deserts collide (except the Chihuahua Desert), and therefore a variety of plants and critters shows up. The Joshua Tree, a yucca plant actually related to the lily, is its symbol, and a strange-looking plant-tree at that. Anyway, I am glad you mentioned your memoirs coming back from Philmont (practically up the road from where I live). I am a desert aficionado from the word "go."

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 07:33:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I visited the Tswaing Crater in South Africa (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    elfling, PrahaPartizan, Nebraskablue

    It is about the same size as the Arizona crater but is heavily overgrown (the tree-covered hills are all uplifted rim) and has a lake in the middle of the crater. It is not as clearly visible as Arizona's. It is believed to be much older, though.

    Some photos of Tswaing:

    DSCN6244

    DSCN6249

    DSCN6262

    DSCN6258

    •  Wow. . .wow. . .wow. . . (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elfling

      and thank you for posting the photos, Lenny Flank. When I last I was in South Africa I had no idea this crater was even extant. As I later found it, it is labeled a dubious crater sort in that there is a continuing scientific dispute as to its origins. Some think it's really volcanic, while others, perhaps like you, feel it is an impact crater. And only fairly recently was it proven it is indeed an impact crater. As you know, Prof. Shoemaker proved his hypothesis about our planet being receptive to numerous such craters, which in time were overgrown by vegetation, and in places like Tuscany, civilization. I wonder if he ever had this particular crater, the Tswaing, on his suspect's list. Anyway, I once met him years ago, at a conference, in Flagstaff, and he was most impressive and impassioned about extraterrestrial flaming visitors. He gave a presentation at NAU's Cline Library, I think it was, and it was a fluke I was even there. Such a wonderful and intelligent man, who, along with his wife, was tragically killed in a stupid car crash, in Aussie land. Anyway, thank you, again, for this contribution of pictures. Wow, what a peerless Daily Kos community we have going for us, huh?

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 07:53:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I spent the better part of a day hiking around and (0+ / 0-)

        inside the crater. The South African friend who was with me happened to spot a bit of rock that looked like a worked stone tool---several ancient cultures mined salt from the lake inside Tswaing. When we got back to Joburg, we emailed some photos of it to a friend of ours in London who is an archaeologist, and he confirmed that it's a utilitarian scraper, probably about 3000-6000 years old.

        •  shhhh.... (0+ / 0-)

          don't post this for sale on Craigslist. . .you may have a treasure in your possession and sometimes folks who advertise such stuff may get more than they bargained for (when visitors come a-knocking on the door). Do you happen to have a picture of that scraper? Would love to see it. And what a peerless find that is. As for Jo-burg. . .I left something behind there many years ago. A broken heart! But my oh my, was she ever a wonderful city lass from that great city. Oh well. Love and losses and sometimes wins, right? thanks for posting your comment, Lenny Flank.

          Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

          by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 01:02:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't have it--my South African friend is a (0+ / 0-)

            schoolteacher and he keeps it in his classroom.

            •  fair enough. . . (0+ / 0-)

              I will go online and see if I can find something like it. I have found prehistoric scrapers in my wanderings throughout the Colorado Plateau, but nothing that old. Our human history in these parts may be all of 12,000 years, although North America has been occupied with human life anywhere from 32,000 to 38,000 + years, or so this is the latest in archeological findings. Anyway, lucky you for having seen that marvelous crater up close and person life. Thanks for letting me know about the scraper. Now I want to check out your embedded Red and Black Publishers (which I just now noticed) and see more of what you've been up to in your life's time.

              Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

              by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 01:52:55 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  I have a a couple of pictures of it. (0+ / 0-)

    Taken from above as we flew overhead in a Chinook helicopter on our way to California in July 08.
    (To go help with the fires there).

    Posted in the D KOS image library...

    It is just Awesome to see it from the air.....

    What you allow, is what will continue.

    by Nebraskablue on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 09:20:36 AM PDT

    •  now can you tell me. . . (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Nebraskablue

      how and where I can look for this picture from the Chinook? As I keep saying (or complaining). . .I am not all that savvy when it comes to the intrigue of this site, the workings and all, so I'll need some guidance. Kindly post to my profile email and maybe I can slip it into the diary. I'm still looking for the bad quality pics I snapped from the Stearman (though not doing one of the barrel rolls and such. Thanks for posting your comment, Nebraskablue!

      Rich

      P. S. Are you among our revered 'Hot Shots' (the nature of your going to California, as you mentioned)?

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 10:48:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  See below comment.. (0+ / 0-)

        A lovely and kind hearted fellow KOS traveler posted them for both you and me...

        What you allow, is what will continue.

        by Nebraskablue on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 02:46:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Hotshots, no... (0+ / 0-)

        I was a Flight Engineer on a Ch-47 from Nebraska sent out to help with the fires in summer of 2008.  We flew mainly out of Chino and Susanville dropping water with our 2000 gallon bucket.  It was hard nasty hot work. but the people that we met there were very nice with no exceptions at all.  Spent almost a month flying around in the smoke wondering if the fires would ever end. I was astounded seeing how dry California was that year.

        What you allow, is what will continue.

        by Nebraskablue on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 02:55:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I met some hot shots. . . (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RiveroftheWest

          when I was with the Forest Service (out of Prescott, AZ), working as a GPS surveyor and topographical mapper. I think those guys and gals are tops. Never saw a CH-47 working any of our fires, though. I am also allergic, deathly, to fire smoke; so I never worked the fire lines. Still, I got close and I did meet some nice folks. Now tell me. . .how did you get so lucky to be an FE on a Chinook? Closest I ever got to riding in one was the Sea Stallion, a Navy chopper, dropping me off to various boats (subs) for my special ops stuff. I never liked one minute of those flights (even though I ended up a fixed-wing ATP type many years later). I mean, geesh. . .too many damn moving parts to suit me. . .choppers and such. Still working that line of work, are you?

          Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

          by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 03:08:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No those days are now past. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RiveroftheWest

            I retired at the end of last year.  30 years was enough for me, so I left it in younger hands.    I was lucky enough to be the first Flight Engineer in my unit which was pretty amazing considering my age at the time.  We had been tooling up to change over to an Apache unit (from Air Cav) and got switched to Chinooks instead.  I had crewed Hueys in the USMC in the very early part of my career, which was no help at all when you have not been flying for almost 15 years to go back to it.  We learned to work fires early on in our Chinooks (2006) since we had a few bad ones here locally in western Nebraska. I am pretty sure our Governor volunteered us for the California mission, which went pretty well.  Lots of great scenery and people on that trip.

            What you allow, is what will continue.

            by Nebraskablue on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 11:11:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Posting them for you (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Nebraskablue, RiveroftheWest


      Nice - thanks for sharing and thanks for putting in good descriptions!

      Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

      by elfling on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 11:43:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Wonderful diary! (0+ / 0-)

    Thank you so much! Brought back good memories of a family trip when I was a kid.

    •  memories, indeed. . . (0+ / 0-)

      and I just told Joe, of nmstarg, who posts on this site, and the guy responsible for getting me involved with this community, that I am just now realizing I have somehow blundered into a niche diary market on this site and community, and so many of you are responding in kind, that is, given your notion of bringing back good memories. Well, that's just great, because I think what some commentators have said in the past these diaries I'm posting provide a break from the usual routine of politics (which, of course, is the actual intent of Daily Kos). Still, I am joyful that I can provide something interesting in the way of reading, and, as you say, tripping memories, good memories, besides. Thanks for posting, Rich452. Means a lot to me.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 12:56:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The best dialog from Starman was (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PrahaPartizan
    Starman: Okay?
    Jenny Hayden: Okay? Are you crazy? You almost got us killed! You said you watched me, you said you knew the rules!
    Starman: I do know the rules.
    Jenny Hayden: Oh, for your information pal, that was a yellow light back there!
    Starman: I watched you very carefully. Red light stop, green light go, yellow light go very fast.
    In 1967, some friends and I drove on old Route 66 from Columbus, Ohio, to LA essentially non-stop.  But we did make a stop a Meteor Crater (we arrived about 6:00 a.m. and had a nap in the parking lot until the gates opened).  It was worth the wait.

    We must drive the special interests out of politics.… There can be no effective control of corporations while their political activity remains. To put an end to it will neither be a short not an easy task, but it can be done. -- Teddy Roosevelt

    by NoMoJoe on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 11:59:37 AM PDT

    •  ha ha ha! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PrahaPartizan

      you're too much. Thanks for this reminder, NoMoJoe...I love this movie, think it's one of Jeff's best roles, and he plays it so straight, yet to. . .well, alien-like; you know, credible. And of course, I just have to say his cohort in this movie still sends me. Can you possibly fix me up? I mean, if she doesn't mind 'ole fossil head types, like me? And, yes, I think despite the high tariff the crater is worth seeing, and now more than ever, the visitor center, including watching the pre-show on the big screen.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 12:53:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  FYI the Greenland crater (0+ / 0-)

    is the oldest known crater on earth, but not the oldest impact. There are at least four (possibly seven or more) Archean spherule beds with ages of 3.2 to 3.5 billion years. These are deposits of impact ejecta found in South Africa and Australia (link). The craters for these impacts are probably long since subducted or otherwise lost, but some of these impacts might have made craters 1000 km or more in size.

    •  thanks for the info. . . (0+ / 0-)

      and you sound, ftkyte, like you are ideal person to write a sequel to this diary. How about it? Meanwhile, I was aware of the Greenland crater, as the presumed oldest, and also those ejecta sites in Aussie (though the So. Africa implication is intriguing and I'll have to look into this). A friend of mine, one of the best known of Grand Canyon Field Institute instructors, and authors, had mentioned some time ago his interest in not only sea floor spreading (the youngest of all the Earth's materials), but also possibly the bed of the oldest craters. But there's no way to get down there and substantiate such. Anyway, thanks so much for the info on the Acchean spherule beds. I am assuming you a geologist (or similar) of the highest order. Not me. I just love rocks and such (even have some in my head to prove it). Thanks for posting your comments.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 12:51:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  just read and saved. . . (0+ / 0-)

      the link to the article that you sent, ftkyte. Were you part of that conference? Wow. . .some rather erudite minds attending, I see. Very interesting stuff these Archean s-beds. I am not up to speed, as you are, on such, but I think I'll do more reading later this evening and try and learn more...thanks to you for sending me this information. Appreciate it, too.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 03:12:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Oh, boo. . . (0+ / 0-)

    I was supposed to see it last week, along with the Petrified Forest -- but Northern Arizona got a huge snow storm that rendered my planned route from Texas a bit sketchy, so we took I-10 instead. Fortunately our Sedona and Grand Canyon plans weren't altered (and honestly, the crater entry fee was a big turnoff, though we were willing to pay it anyhow).

    Hope you fall on your burger and fries.

    by cardinal on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 01:32:17 PM PDT

    •  expensive, yet. . . (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cardinal

      worth the price of admission for those who can afford it. Presently, I'm waiting to hear back from those folks about this very thing. Told them I posted a diary with our community, and it has turned out to be highly supportive. So, I'm thinking the least the management can do is to give a huge discount for future DKos community members, and, let's say one can use a password to clue management in on the fact. You know, something that gets you in the door for maybe thirty to forty percent off. Hey, stranger things have happened before. As for the snow corridor, we're dry as a dinosaur's bone here in Albuquerque, but where I used to live (Flagstaff, for a time) we once got 5 and one-half feet of snow in five days and that's when I decided to hit the bricks and move back to New Mexico. No wonder I haven't heard from some cronies out that way; they're probably still buried by an avalanche or something. Well, I best check on them, you try and make it back to the crater some day, and I do thank you for posting your comment, cardinal.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 01:50:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Meteor Crater (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RiveroftheWest

    Wow - this diary is so informative and even more so with the shared experiences of the other readers. I have to admit I have never heard of this crater and have learned a lot - including that the meteor disintegrated upon impact. Trying to visualize that. Thanks again for all of your effort on these diaries and I also enjoy the oomph you add. Please continue, governor er richholtzin, I mean.

    •  and no fragments. . . (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RiveroftheWest

      when this type of blasts occur, wynative. Nada. And just mere inches from solid ground. . .like a shock wave that disintegrates the mass. Powerful things, these impactors from space, huh? Well, anyway, now you know something you didn't know before, and isn't that a bit like life and its endless process? What a marvel that process is. Tomorrow, Acoma Pueblo gets posted. That'll be more down to earth, okay? LOL. And, yes, I'll be carrying on. . .the weekend will lead us back to Monument Valley. I have a special (read "personal") two-part series on a backpacking tour, my own, and that's something I haven't shared with the community. Hope some of you stay awake for its chatty presentation.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Wed Mar 20, 2013 at 07:10:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Saw it in 1968 as a kid (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RiveroftheWest

    I thought wow! It was a family vacation just like the Grizwalds.

    Best time ever.

    I ask him if he was warm enough? "Warm," he growled, "I haven't been warm since Bastogne."

    by Unrepentant Liberal on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 05:09:14 AM PDT

    •  Grizwalds, eh? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RiveroftheWest

      Now you have me curious and I don't recall the name. Here goes another Google search. Meanwhile, glad to hear some family vacations turn out spectacularly. Thanks for posting your comment, Unrepentant Liberal!

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 06:59:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Doh - just skipped it 2 months ago! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RiveroftheWest

    We were driving cross country and because of the fact that it was private and we really weren't sure how legit it was we skipped it :(

    FYI - the bluedog thing is about my dog ... I'm a liberal left winger and proud of it.

    by bluedogsd on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 09:49:18 AM PDT

    •  private, indeed. . . (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RiveroftheWest

      and I have heard this same thing from others in the past. I think the sign reads METEOR CRATER LANDMARK, but doesn't entail any other information. It therefore lends its title to the fact it is not a national park, monument, not even a State Park. IN which case, people figure it's a private enterprise, and it costs more. Well, much more. Still, you read the diary and maybe that'll suffice, bluedogsd, until (and if) you ever pass that way again. FYI: I have contacted this private industry, and presented the case offered by some DKos community members who feel the price for admission is dear, meaning, expensive. You would think those folks would have gotten back to me by now, since I emphasized a discount might be offered to our members. Hey, why not milk the cow instead of a comb and currying? If there is a response I will likely pay notice to same by an ad hoc diary, or something. Thanks for posting your comment. And your opening remarks are very similar to what some others think and feel about touristy private enterprises.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 10:14:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Astronauts (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Don Enrique, RiveroftheWest

    Your readers may be wondering why there's an Astronaut Wall of Fame at the Visitors Center.

    The Apollo astronauts trained at the bottom of Meteor Crater, in an attempt to simulate conditions on the Moon.

    •  yes, there is that. . . (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RiveroftheWest

      and it's the one important tagline embedded in the photo I did not remember to add before saving. Thanks for reminding me of this, LtPowers. So, listen up DKos community: the closest thing you'll ever get to walking in the prints of astronauts is to hike down to the bottom of the crater, then doit! Only trouble is: you're not allowed to hike to the bottom (as was possible in my day). Thanks for posting this important comment and reminder!

      P. S. I never saw those famous footprints, by the way. Just so you know. Still, for those of you who may be headed to the moon one of these days, you'll find the footsteps are perfectly preserved.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 10:59:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I visited that site (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RiveroftheWest

    in Nov of 1992
    What an amazing thing to do !

    •  that being said. . . (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RiveroftheWest

      your comment, eeff. . .I take it the gaping crater reminds you, as it does so many of us, of the chance 'hit' of such impact craters from visitors of outer space, and, of course, there is nothing any of us can do a thing about it. . .the Cosmos being in control of everything and anything that impacts our planetary home, so to say???

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Sat Mar 23, 2013 at 05:36:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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