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or 12 year old boys being solicited for sex by an ex-NFL cheerleader.

(CBS) MURFREESBORO, Tenn. - Elizabeth Leigh Garner, a former Tennessee Titans cheerleader, was arrested after she was accused of sexually assaulting a 12-year-old boy, CBS affiliate WTVF reports

Garner was visiting a friend's home when she followed a 12-year-old boy into the bathroom, fondled him, and then tried to seduce him, the station reports.

According to the police report, Garner told detectives that she was drunk that evening and she got the boy confused with a man that was also at the residence.

I posted the following to a message board where they were making comments like:
Men's rule of life # 14, never ever tattle on a hot chick who offers oral Reply


Re: Ex NFL Cheerleader arrested for grabbing 12 yr old's "junk" Reply

In about 3 years that kid is going to be thinking "WTF was I thinking!!!"

Re: This was on a radio show (or a similar story involving a 12yo boy)... Reply

But males get life in prison for it, women get 8 years max, apparently.

That being said, where the hell were these women in our youth

The following was my response:

I ask you to step back for a moment and consider what you are actually saying here.   That it's okay for an adult to attempt to have sex with a child because she's an NFL Cheerleader?

So if the pedophiles are "hot" then it's okay that they abuse our children?  

This is what a pedophile looks like:

Now, if you have a young boy around the age of 12, take a look at him.  Is this really what you want your child's first experience to be?  A predator who follows a 12-year-old little boy into the bathroom IN HIS OWN HOME and tries to force herself on him?  Grabs and gropes him?  Tries to place her mouth on him, against his will?  Is that what you're really saying - that it's "okay" for a grown woman to rape a child?  

We must change our attitudes about child sexual abuse, particularly when the pedophiles are women.  And that change can start today.

From our website:

What is Child Sexual Abuse?

If you are not exactly sure what sexual abuse is, you're not alone. All sexual activity between an adult and a child is sexual abuse. Sexual touching between children can also be sexual abuse.

Sexual abuse between children is often defined as when there is a significant age difference (usually 3 or more years) between the children, or if the children are very different developmentally or size-wise. Sexual abuse does not have to involve penetration, force, pain, or even touching. If an adult engages in any sexual behavior (looking, showing, or touching) with a child to meet the adult's interest or sexual needs, it is sexual abuse.

Child Sexual Abuse Includes Harmful Contact and Non-Contact Behaviors

Abusive Physical Contact or Touching

Touching a child's genitals or private parts for sexual purposes
Making a child touch someone else's genitals or play sexual games
Putting objects or body parts (like fingers, tongue or penis) inside the vagina, in the mouth or in the anus of a child for sexual purposes

Non-Contact Sexual Abuse Includes:

Deliberately exposing an adult's genitals to a child
Photographing a child in sexual poses
Encouraging a child to watch or hear sexual acts
Inappropriately watching a child undress or use the bathroom

Sexually Abusive Pictures of Children and the Internet:

As well as the activities described above, there is also the serious and growing problem of people making and downloading sexual images of children on the Internet. To view sexually abusive images of children is to participate in the abuse of a child, and may cause someone to consider sexual interactions with children as acceptable.

Thank you for your time.  I'm really not trying to be a "buzz-kill" here, nor am I pointing fingers, I am simply asking you to consider what you're saying.  It's NEVER okay for an adult to have sex with a child.  Never.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Some days are worse than others... (10+ / 0-)

    today, reading the frivolity with which these grown men were talking about how "great" it would be and "where were these women" when they were kids...I almost lost it sitting here.  

    Literally, like spontaneous combustion - I thought I was going to explode.

    I need to go walk it off...these are fucking little kids

    "...I am the master of my fate/I am the captain of my soul" Invictus - William Ernest Henley Please donate to TREE Climbers, our 501(c)(3).

    by Roxine on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 11:37:12 AM PDT

  •  Sexual assault is sexual assault (10+ / 0-)

    no matter how "hot" the assailant is.  

    Ms. Garner seems to follow a pattern of female child abusers who are desperately trying to exert sexual power.  

    I don't buy for a minute that she was too drunk to know who she was with.  

    We do not forgive. We do not forget. The whole world is watching.

    by Tracker on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 11:41:04 AM PDT

  •  If it's a 14 year old girl (7+ / 0-)

    being seduced by an ex-Tennessee Titan, it's a crime.

    If it's a 14 year old boy being seduced by an ex-Titans cheerleader, it's "where was she when I was a kid?"

    That's the way most men tend to think.

    They don't think about the fact that a young boy might not be comfortable with an older woman. He might prefer to have his first sexual experience with the girl in class he's got a crush on...or maybe the guy in class he's got a crush on. He might have preferred to wait till he was out of high school before making that decision (Mr. Scribe did I but I definitely tested the boundaries).

    We've got really poor attitudes about sex in this society -- girls are supposed to "save themselves for marriage" but guys are encouraged to "sow their wild oats". And those girls they sow their oats with are "sluts", no responsibility on the guys' part to show some self control.

    There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

    by Cali Scribe on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 11:44:10 AM PDT

  •  When sex is treated as a commodity... (4+ / 0-)

    by men, it leads to this kind of thinking.

    Essentially: HEY!  He got for free something I have to pay for!

    Course Madison Avenue spend 24/7/365 convincing us that we need to pay for it, so despite what people say, the reaction to this proves that advertising works.

    As usual, if it was a Male perpetrator, Not one of these guys would jump to his defense.  Mainly because in their opinion it is no longer about the sex, and now it's about the violation.

    Which is what it should have always been.

    Sex without consent is a violation.  Period.

    Children cannot consent to sex with an adult.  Period.

    I don't blame Christians. I blame Stupid. Which sadly is a much more popular religion these days.

    by detroitmechworks on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 11:48:43 AM PDT

    •  Sex certainly does sell and it's (7+ / 0-)

      approaching graphic with each new ad campaign.

      When I was a 7th grader, I was, like most boys, a hormone on legs. Girls, women... there was no conscious type I was attracted to. There was no part of arousal that was a choice. It just happened.
      We had a young English teacher, married to a much older man. She'd do things like "accidentally" have a slide of her lying on a raft in her bikini mixed in with an educational slide show we were viewing. She'd walk among us when we were taking a test and run a finger up and down the back of boys' necks.
      She wore mini-skirts as was the fashion for young women. She changed the seating arrangement so most of us boys were at the front of the room. She'd sit on her desk while delivering her lesson and give us a view up her skirt. I liked her fashion choice in panties. The black lace were my favorite, but the leopard print were also nice.
      I craved a particular type of lesson from her. Had it really happened, I'd probably be grateful for it to this day.

      Now that I've pissed some of you off, let me say this. What my English teacher was doing was child abuse, no matter how "cute" she may have thought her behavior. And at that age, I was no where near mature enough to make such a choice had anything further happened. The whole situation was wrong. Personally, being the little horndog that I was, I don't know that there'd be repurcussions, any damage, to my psyche. But my first time was with a girl near my age and it was magical, though frightening enough, and I was almost 16.

      Now, I grew up in a wonderful neighborhood full of kids. And we guys talked. As a teen I had the "how old were you when you first did it" discussion with my neighbor, who was my age. He told me he was 12, that his older sister had pushed him into a closet with her friend who then went after him full bore (he was a very good-looking kid). I said something to the effect of how lucky he was since I'd seen the girl and she was striking. His reply was not in agreement with my assessment. He still felt some humiliation, some internal pain from the experience.

      He was raped. He was taken against his will. I didn't understand it then, but I do now.

      So while I wouldn't flame Bruce's comment below, because I completely understand it and feel I may be in the same mindset, I also know that what the cheerleader did, what my teacher was doing, and what my neighbor went through was a thousand ways wrong.
      Kids experiment with each other, yes. Adults are beyond that stage. Anything involving a child is predatory behavior, yes, even if the child is physically advanced. And even if the child is "willing", if a "child" could truly be.

      I believe in democracy, civil liberties, and the rule of law. That makes me a liberal, and I’m proud of it. - Paul Krugman

      by Gentle Giant on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 01:11:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I actually agree with all of this (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cali Scribe, Gentle Giant, Avilyn

        If this accusation is true, what the woman did to the boy was wrong, and she should go to jail for it.

        And, yes, what your teacher was doing was wrong. But, yeah, I was a horndog too, so I don't think I would've had any bad repercussions from it, either. Still would've been wrong on her part, but it wouldn't have damaged me any. And, as I said below, the girls my age wouldn't give me the time of day until well after high school graduation, so an older woman might have given my confidence a well-needed boost :)

        But, no, I wasn't excusing what she did.

        "Maybe: it's a vicious little word that could slay me"--Sara Bareilles

        by ChurchofBruce on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 03:16:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I have serious doubts that this 12-year-old (4+ / 0-)

    will be looking back saying, "WTF was I thinking?"  That commenter is a moron. The boy (yes--boy) was probably scared. And brave for telling someone.

    And like Tracker above, she wasn't mistaken. She's a pedophile.

  •  I'm probably going to be flamed (4+ / 0-)

    into oblivion for this, but I have to be honest.

    I was 12 in 7th grade. If my 7th-grade reading teacher had pulled this? Oh, hell yes. Definitely. And glad of it.

    It is my experience that the number of guys who, when they were teenagers, weren't fantasizing about older women is rather small. I think a lot of those guys are quoted above.

    So, is it abuse if the victim doesn't feel it's abuse? Now, in this case, the boy just might have felt it was abuse. By the law, it surely is. But, believe me, I wouldn't have felt it to be abusive, if it had happened to me. And I'm not alone.

    "Maybe: it's a vicious little word that could slay me"--Sara Bareilles

    by ChurchofBruce on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 12:16:52 PM PDT

    •  Yes. It's still abuse. (6+ / 0-)

      Kids can't consent.

      The adult should know better.  


      I don't blame Christians. I blame Stupid. Which sadly is a much more popular religion these days.

      by detroitmechworks on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 12:18:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yep, abuse (8+ / 0-)

      By definition, a minor cannot consent to sex with an adult.

      Also, there's a bit of a disconnect between fantasy and reality.  What your seventh-grade self was fantasizing about would almost certainly have been a little reality.

      In your case, it would also be utterly inappropriate--and a violation of trust--for a teacher to sleep with a student.  That's true at any age, as far as I'm concerned, but I'm willing to make a slight exception for two people well into adulthood.  Were I single and, at 44, took a class, liked the teacher, and went out with him, that's a bit different--but I still wouldn't ask until after the class ended and I received my final grade.

      While my first experience was with a man seven years my senior, I was 19 at the time.  No harm, no foul there (some may question a 26 year old sleeping with a 19 year old, but it's legal and perfectly ethical as we had no school or business connections, and technically I made the first move anyway).

      12 and 19?  Nope.  The twelve year old cannot be said to have the capacity to consent like the adult can.

      (-6.38, -7.03) Moderate left, moderate libertarian

      by Lonely Liberal in PA on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 12:26:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  When I was 20, (3+ / 0-)

        I had a relationship with a 34 year old man; we actually were together for about 5+ years till he moved away to help care for his aging parents. Raised some eyebrows within my family and amongst my social set, but we got along well, had no business connections like boss/subordinate (he worked for a totally different company, and I credit him for helping me grow as a person and shuck off a lot of the outmoded sexual ideas my mom had instilled in me. (Still miss him, 30 years or so later.)

        There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

        by Cali Scribe on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 02:06:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  "I was 12 in 7th grade..." (5+ / 0-)

      ... and as you yourself state and admit, a lot of boys that age -- and probably(?) girls as well -- fantasized about their teachers and other adults. I know I did.  I might have even welcomed it at that time.

      But at 12 years of age, I was a child.  36 years on down the road, the thought of what it would have dysfunctionally taught me about women and relationships horrifies me.  Without a doubt, it would have been abuse.  Just as it would be abuse if it happened to my daughter, it would be abuse if it happened to my sons.

      I won't flame you, at least as I understand the term.  But I think you are wrong, and I hope you rethink your position for the sake of any children in your life.

      •  My children are female (0+ / 0-)

        And, yes, one of them is 12. (The other is 17, and the AOC in my home state is 16, so she's a free agent :)).

        I can understand the thing about what it taught me about relationships...although, I was so repulsive to girls at that age (and for many years later) having anyone show an interest at that age might have helped, in a strange way :)

        And, yes, girls are different. Sorry, but they are. They don't have our male lizard-brains.

        "Maybe: it's a vicious little word that could slay me"--Sara Bareilles

        by ChurchofBruce on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 03:03:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I had a crush on my high school physics teacher (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Gentle Giant, Cali Scribe, Avilyn

      Knowing full well that the fantasy was not something to act on.

      One of the missed aspects of sex and sexuality in our society is the false equating of physical beauty with sexual desire AND satisfaction.

      Sex with someone because you need it, because the person is physically attractive, or rich and powerful; is pretty much using their body as a means to really good masturbation.

      Since I started becoming sexually active, my explanation of a partner I would want to have:

      "I have to be aroused by what's between his ears before what's between his legs interests me."

      That includes a comparable intelligence, values, morals, mutual respect, good interpersonal and intimacy skills, and a good sense of humor.

      The lack of good sex education, let alone sexuality, adds significantly to the problem. Child abuse can turn a child into an abuser of other children, including siblings and cousins.

      "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

      by Ginny in CO on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 01:23:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well-said, Ginny. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        And among your words:

        "...using their body as a means to really good masturbation.
        Or maybe not so good.
        I have a powerful conscience. I've never been able to "trick" or lie to a female just to get sex. That's not to say there weren't one nighters. It is to say I found them lacking. I've always enjoyed the boost emotional intimacy gives to physical intimacy to the point where years before I got married, I gave up having sex outside of a relationship. I just hated wishing the other person would just leave. I felt cheap and I felt I was or could make her feel cheap.
        Masturbation is a whole different thing from consentual sex with a partner. A whole different dynamic, different technique and satisfies some needs and not others that aren't a major part of consensual, partnered sex. But I know what you're saying. Sex devoid of any emotional investment might as well be masturbation. I'm saying it is often less gratifying as well.

        I believe in democracy, civil liberties, and the rule of law. That makes me a liberal, and I’m proud of it. - Paul Krugman

        by Gentle Giant on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 01:37:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Also, you think it would not have been abuse. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Gentle Giant, Avilyn

      You didn't have the experience. Hard to know how it would have impacted you psychologically in reality.

      Tatum ONeal starred in a movie that I thought the closing scene was powerful and very important for adolescents to see. It took place in a girls summer camp located near a boys camp. The fairly young teen girls (14 - 16 max?) had a contest to see who could get laid first. Tatum won. At the celebration party the girls asked her what it was like. Her response clearly displayed the discomfort.

      'It was so, so personal'.

      Yeah, psychologically sex reveals a lot about your  relationship, especially when you realize the partner just used your body as a masturbation toy.

      "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

      by Ginny in CO on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 01:33:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  What if your interests (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      were more in the direction of the football team's star quarterback? If you're gay, and you're aware enough of your own desires while trying to hide them from society (heck, just read thekgirls' diary from earlier today), something like that could indeed be terrifying -- "what if she guessed my secret and she's trying to 'change' me?"

      Whether the boy wanted it or not, it's still abuse. What if it was your daughter with this woman, or with a man at that party? And what if your daughter said that she'd wanted it, or enjoyed it -- I'm not a parent, but I don't think I could be blasé about it; I'd likely have a talk with my kid about proper boundaries and behaviors that adults should exhibit with children/young people, that once you turn 18 (or whatever the age of consent is in the particular state/country) they can make those sorts of decisions but not at that age.

      There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

      by Cali Scribe on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 02:02:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You don't consider the effects (0+ / 0-)

      So you would have been glad of it? Why yes, you would have.

      And then the next time an older woman was nice to you, you might have thought it perfectly acceptable to follow her into the bathroom. Or try to fondle her.

      And then where would you be?

      I'm not a degreed or licensed counselor, but have worked with youth groups and presented marriage enrichment and engaged couples presentations with my church.  I can tell you, the guys who had sex that early on, or who think the whole "cougar" fantasy is golden have the most messed up mentality towards sex.  They are almost incapable of seeing sexual acts as an expression of love and intimacy.

      So, even if you wouldn't have thought it abusive, the fact is it would have been abuse, and it would have had a negative effect on you.

       5 minutes of pleasure for 50 years of pain is not worth it.

      Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence. Conservatism is distrust of the people tempered by fear. ~William E. Gladstone, 1866

      by absdoggy on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 02:07:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  While I prefer sex (0+ / 0-)

        that is an expression of love and intimacy, sex without it still beats the hell out of my right hand.

        And if you think most males--at least heterosexual ones--would disagree with that, you're mistaken.

        Now, not being able to tie sex into love and intimacy is, I agree, a problem.

        "Maybe: it's a vicious little word that could slay me"--Sara Bareilles

        by ChurchofBruce on Thu Mar 21, 2013 at 03:11:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  thank you (0+ / 0-)

    for this diary.

    I actually got turned down for an honours essay at an unnamed university in Canada that touched heavily on the topic of this diary.

    proceed with caution

    Few points that struck me vividly at the time were:

    Regardless of the victims perception of events, there are negative consequences observed. So it didn't matter if the victim felt "lucky" for the attention, they resulted in similar outcomes as someone who viewed the events as entirely negative.

    And second, there is institutional bias. NYC CPS used to classify blatant sexual abuse as "overly affectionate mothers" ( this was late 80's as memory serves ). Without getting into the gory details, the behaviors were things I would only do with a consenting adult that I was intimately involved with. Another case I read of was of a boy who had run away at 12. A middle aged woman took him in with the understanding that if he didn't 'service' her, she was going to turn him in etc. When authorities found and rescued the boy, responding officers were on record as saying "You sure landed on your feet" when the victim recounted his ordeal. I could go on, but that's truly a set of data I wish I could unsee.

    Anyway, I think diarist did an awesome job outlining the gender bias victims are faced with. Thank you ( for whatever that's worth )

    •  Thank you and we would be very interested in (0+ / 0-)

      hearing more about your research on this subject.  

      You can email me directly at

      Sorry it's taken me awhile to respond to your message - I'm  in the middle of finals weeks for two classes (MBA program)

      "...I am the master of my fate/I am the captain of my soul" Invictus - William Ernest Henley Please donate to TREE Climbers, our 501(c)(3).

      by Roxine on Tue Mar 26, 2013 at 10:02:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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