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Texas Senate candidate Ted Cruz speaking at the Values Voters Summit
Ted Cruz poses a dilemma for birthers: If they admit he's a natural-born citizen, they have to give up their precious Obama conspiracy—or possibly invent a new one
I think Eliana Johnson of National Review intended this as an effort to wash the conservative movement's hands of birthers by labeling them as bipartisan, but it actually does a pretty good job of exactly the opposite:
Birthers, it turns out, can be bipartisan. They have a new target — the rapidly rising GOP senator Ted Cruz.

Though he bears all the marks of a Texan — the swagger, the signature twang, and the ever-present cowboy boots — 42-year-old Cruz was born in Calgary, Alberta, to an American mother and a Cuban father. By dint of his mother’s citizenship, Cruz was an American citizen at birth. Whether he meets the Constitution’s requirement that the president of the United States be a “natural-born citizen,” a term the Framers didn’t define and for which the nation’s courts have yet to offer an interpretation, has become the subject of considerable speculation.

Despite initially saying that Calgary Cruz's eligibility is an open question, Johnson eventually makes it clear that every serious legal scholar thinks this speculation is idiotic. The reason for that is simple: U.S. law clearly defines Cruz as a citizen from birth thanks to his mother's citizenship and there's no chance a court or any other branch of government would interpret this as anything other than Cruz being a natural-born citizen who is eligible for the presidency.

Nonetheless, as Johnson documents, there are plenty of people who don't realize this, including Ann Coulter and Carl Cameron—both of whom have said Cruz is ineligible—and Donald Trump, who hasn't made up his mind. (Coulter later corrected herself.) Moreover, many of the same anti-Obama birther conspiracy sites refuse to accept that Cruz is a natural-born citizen.

Notice that there aren't any progressive or Democratic birthers on Johnson's list. True, Cruz is a Republican and President Barack Obama is a Democrat, but this doesn't mean that birthers are bipartisan. What it means is that some birthers are trying to be consistent, because if birthers were to accept Cruz as a natural-born citizen, they'd also have to accept Obama as one, because they both had American-born mothers.

For a birther to simultaneously say that Cruz is eligible but that Obama is not, saying the president was born in Kenya wouldn't be enough. They'd also have to say his mother wasn't his mother. I'm sure there's some of them who go that far, but for most birthers, the real problem with acknowledging that Cruz is eligible is that they'd also have to acknowledge Obama is eligible.

My first choice would be for this whole birther thing to just go away. It's clear as day that Ted Cruz is constitutionally eligible to be president and birthers are insane to suggest otherwise. But I have to admit, if birthers end up taking down Cruz just because it's the only way they can hang onto their Obama conspiracy theory, it would be pretty damn hilarious. So until they get a grip on reality, I'm going to happily keep on calling him Calgary Cruz.

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Comment Preferences

  •  and they even take both sides (19+ / 0-)

    of this critical issue. some think obama wasn't born in the united states, and some think he was born in kenya.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 06:28:27 PM PDT

  •  I wonder if the birthers would give up more (15+ / 0-)

    readily for an Anglo Republican named Ted Cross. Because I don't think their main problem with Obama was ever the (D).

    Economics is a social *science*. Can we base future economic decisions on math?

    by blue aardvark on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 06:28:28 PM PDT

    •  We have some evidence they would not (4+ / 0-)

      McCain was allegedly born on a military base in Panama.  We really don't have any proof of this because no one has asked for his long form birth certificate or traveled to Panama to prove he was born on the military base and not in Panama general.  To rational people, because at least one his parents was American, the question is moot.  For me, I would have demanded that McCain undergo a paternity test.  For all we know his real father is Ricaurte(?) Noriega and he is Manuel's half brother.  We don't even know if Roberta is his mother.  He might have been just some kid they found on the street.  I don't know why the wingnuts did not mount an investigation.  We might have some wetback as president, then where would we be?

      •  LOL!! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blue aardvark

        if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

        by mrsgoo on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 07:37:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  birthers ok with Ted, but not Obama (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blue aardvark, paradise50

      I agree with you.

  •  the new bipartisans (9+ / 0-)

    equal opportunity haters

    "a lie that can no longer be challenged becomes a form of madness" -Debord

    by grollen on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 06:29:15 PM PDT

  •  Both sides do everything equally! (6+ / 0-)

    The comments there are hilarious.   A bunch of birhers arguing over the definition of 'natural born citizen' and insisting that Obama isn't one.  

    The tent got so big it now stands for nothing.

    by Beelzebud on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 06:31:13 PM PDT

  •  Cruz is NOT eligible to be POTUS (15+ / 0-)

    Isn't being a total DICK a disqualifier?

    Never underestimate stupid. Stupid is how reTHUGlicans win!

    by Mannie on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 06:31:47 PM PDT

  •  Who knew (13+ / 0-)

    that there actually were birthers who would stick to their principles because of, you know, logic.  That doesn't seem to have affected them in the past.

    If the Republicans ever find out that Barack Obama favors respiration, we'll be a one-party system inside two minutes. - Alan Lewis

    by MadRuth on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 06:31:55 PM PDT

  •  No see. You don't understand: since obamas father (20+ / 0-)

    Was a Kenyan Muslim, because of Islam, obamas mothers citizenship was overruled by sharia law meaning she wasn't American when she birthed him.



  •  It's okay because Canada is a WHITE country (13+ / 0-)

    plus... Cruz is a Republican.

    Too late for the simple life, too early for android love slaves - Savio

    by Clem Yeobright on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 06:33:45 PM PDT

  •  Sorry. Too many Americans, the framers (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eyesbright, TrueBlueMajority

    ambiguity notwithstanding, will simply say this guy is not eligible because he was born in Canada. Closed case.

    McCain was born on a navy base in the Canal Zone (at that time belonging to the U.S., so it was U.S. soil)  to naval a U.S. servicemember and his American wife.  There is extremely little ambiguity there.

    This is NOT the same situation as Cruz.

    "They come, they come To build a wall between us We know they won't win."--Crowded House, "Don't Dream It's Over."

    by Wildthumb on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 06:35:42 PM PDT

    •  On being born in the Canal Zone (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PDiddie, Janet 707, loblolly

      John McCain has a couple of ways to claim being a U.S. citizen by birth, but neither has to do with being born in the Panama Canal Zone or on a Navy base.

      An American military base is not American soil. If it were, then any baby born on the base would be a citizen by birth. They are not. The baby needs an American parent or two to become a citizen.

      Do some googling on the State Department, U.S. citizenship, and military bases abroad. The State Department has helpfully explained which infants born on American bases abroad get U.S. passports and which don't.

      The Panama Canal Zone was an unincorporated and unorganized American territory. It was not "American soil" that counted for transmission of citizenship.

      Babies born in the Panama Canal Zone were U.S. nationals, not U.S. citizens. That was the result of a U.S. Supreme Court case in 1905, Rasmussen v. U.S.

      Eventually, this situation troubled Congress, so in 1937, Congress passed legislation granting statutory citizenship to Canal Zone babies born to at least one U.S. citizen parent. They made it retroactive to 1904, so baby John, born in 1936, was entitled to statutory citizenship that way. (The section is still in the law--see Title 8, s. 1403.)

      The other way that baby John was entitled to his citizenship is that he was born to two U.S. citizen parents.

  •  All moot anyway. (7+ / 0-)

    The GOPers would never actually pick a brown guy.

    It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.

    by GrinningLibber on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 06:41:49 PM PDT

  •  I might agree on the legal analysis, but... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sue B, Janet 707

    unless Ted Cruz publicly renounces and condemns all of the birthers, he ought to live with their judgment, and announce that he won't ever run for president.

    The Scout Law (trustworthy, loyal, helpful...) is a GREAT liberal manifesto.

    by DaytonMike on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 06:47:24 PM PDT

  •  Not a problem (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stagemom, Mannie, CyberDem

    Someday soon Orly will explain her theory of why Cruz is a natural born citizen and Obama is not. Or maybe one of the other birthers will come up with the theory.

    Then they'll all repeat it thousands upon thousands of times in blogs and comment sections throughout the internet.

    Nothing anybody says will have any effect on their beliefs whatsoever.

    This new theory won't be like ordinary earthly legal theories.

    It will be like predestination or trans-substantiation. Believing makes it true.

  •  But was he born "naturally," or... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PDiddie, Janet 707

    was it via a C-section?  

    If it was the latter, then arguably he could be excluded.

    I'm just sayin'...

    It's really about time i change my sig line...

    by stevenwag on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 06:50:21 PM PDT

  •  The cases aren't even analogous (7+ / 0-)

    Obama was born in Hawaii to an American mother, Cruz was born in Canada to an American mother. If it's a matter of degree, Obama clearly gets the benefit of any doubt. But the whole thing is stupid. Cruz is about as likely to become the President as Rand Paul.

    "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for a real Republican every time." Harry Truman

    by MargaretPOA on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 06:52:59 PM PDT

    •  I looked it up. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Born in Canada makes you Canadian citizen at birth. If paperwork was done later to make Cruz American citizen then he is not natural born.

      The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. - Elbert Hubbard -9.62/-8.15

      by GustavMahler on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 07:14:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There is more to it than that . . . (4+ / 0-)

        Canada like many jurisdictions has the principle of Jus soli meaning you acquire Canadian citizenship at birth.

        However at birth he also inherited his mother's American Citizenship because American permits citizenship to passed from mother to son in that fashion.

        Therefore he is a native born American(i.e. not naturalized), even if the declaration of citizenship was done later it is immaterial.  He already was in considered American in the eyes of the law.

      •  An important point (0+ / 0-)

        I guess it would depend on the paperwork then. I had a friend who had a child while her husband was serving in the US armed services in Turkey. The child carries dual citizenship but that situation isn't really analogous either. If Cruz's citizenship had to be applied for, rather than being granted automatically as a military dependent, that changes everything, doesn't it?

        "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for a real Republican every time." Harry Truman

        by MargaretPOA on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 07:42:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Process (0+ / 0-)

          If one or both parents are U.S. citizens, then they aren't applying for citizenship. They are proving that their child is an American citizen.

          The parents submit all the paperwork required to prove their citizenship and the baby's birth. The State Department determines whether the baby is a citizen, and then notifies the parents in writing that the baby is regarded by the U.S. government as a U.S. citizen born abroad.

          There may be some additional steps to prove parentage if the State Department has any questions about whether this baby is indeed the biological child of an American citizen.

          After they get the State Department's written confirmation, then the parents can take the next step of applying for the passport.

        •  Baby born in Turkey (0+ / 0-)

          Margaret, if the baby was born in Turkey, then the parents had to do basically the same thing that the Cruzes did many years earlier: provide the information required to prove the U.S. citizenship of the parent(s) and to provide proof that this baby was indeed their biological child.

          It is no more or less automatic, in the sense of how many hoops the baby has to jump through.

          The State Department is no doubt quite confident that a  woman named on a birth certificate is indeed the same woman who gave birth to a baby in a U.S. military hospital. So that's good.

          But a baby born in Turkey--even one born in a U.S. military hospital--and a baby born in Calgary are in the same basic position of being U.S. citizens born abroad.

          For both, once you prove the citizenship of the parent(s) and the birth of this baby to them, then in due course you hear back from the State Department that the baby's citizenship has been recognized.

      •  Dual citizen (0+ / 0-)

        Ted Cruz was a dual citizen at the very moment of his birth: a citizen of Canada because he was born in Canada, and a citizen of the U.S. because his mother transmitted her citizenship to him.

        The parents would have notified the Consulate General in Calgary. (There was one: the first Consulate General in Calgary was established in 1906.)

        Paperwork would have been submitted--mom's passport, Ted's birth certificate, etc.

        In due course, the parents would have received confirmation from the State Department that baby Ted was indeed recognized as a citizen who had been born abroad. All they needed to do then was apply for a passport for him.

  •  EOM (5+ / 0-)
    and birthers are insane

    Help me to be the best Wavy Gravy I can muster

    by BOHICA on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 06:53:15 PM PDT

  •  Actually it's more subtle then that. When Obama (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    was born, for his mother to transmit citizenship, she would have had to have lived in the United States for five years after her 14th birthday.  She was only 19 or so when her son was born -- theoretically if she'd spent too much time outside the country (in Kenya, I suppose), she could not have passed on her citizenship to her son.

    Presently the law is more liberal, but so far as I know it's not retroactive.

    This of course only matters in present times if you believe a vast conspiracy began back in 1960.

    You have exactly 10 seconds to change that look of disgusting pity into one of enormous respect!

    by Cartoon Peril on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 06:53:59 PM PDT

  •  I have to say that I was under the impression (4+ / 0-)

    that one had to be born in the US to be president. So much so that it became a serious factor in deciding where to be when my wife came to term (not that I actually expect my son to be president, I just want to be able to tell him that he CAN be. I don't want him feeling that he is in any way second-class). It was a surprise to learn that one might not actually have to be born in the US (I guess McCain showed us, but I didn't know that at the time).

    Ceterum censeo Factionem Republicanam esse delendam.

    by journeyman on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 06:54:38 PM PDT

    •  That is my understanding of (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TrueBlueMajority, True North

      what natural born means, born on US soil.

      I also contend that McCain is ineligible since he was not born on US soil or territory and laws were passed later to make him a citizen. You only get one chance to become natural born, where are you when you come out of the womb? If things are done later, you can be a citizen but not a natural born one.

      The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. - Elbert Hubbard -9.62/-8.15

      by GustavMahler on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 07:09:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Is he a citizen? Was he naturalized to become one? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Then he was natural-born.  End of story.

        Plaintiffs' Employment Law Attorney (harassment, discrimination, retaliation, whistleblowing, wage & hour, &c.) in North Orange County, CA.

        "I love this goddamn country, and we're going to take it back."
        -- Saul Alinsky

        by Seneca Doane on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 07:39:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Natural born mean that the moment of your birth (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      you were a legal American citizen.  Cruz is eligible.

      I am surprised that the Birthers would take this stand....seems to me that Cruz would be their dream candidate come true, cowboys boots and all.

      Coulter said as much as she did about Cruz because apparently her and Christie are secret lovers of some kind.  She literally drools over him and wants him to be president so bad she can taste it.  She wants no rivals for the Christie love.

    •  You weren't alone (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      I've lived in other countries, and met many Americans who wanted their babies to be born in the U.S. for just that reason.

      I think you may be right that the McCain situation raised the issue and we've all discussed it a lot more.

  •  he can't be pres b/c he's an ass****. (5+ / 0-)

    oh, wait.  that's not unconstitutional!

    "A dollah makes me hollah"-- Stephen Colbert, pretending to be S. Palin

    by stagemom on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 06:54:47 PM PDT

  •  Bipartisan in their hate... (0+ / 0-)

    ... is what she meant. As long as somebody is browner than a saltine cracker, they don't mind dishing on the hate.

    That, and well- a few of the ones with one or two brain cells left realize they temporarily need to remain consistent in their older arguments.

    I figure the first one is the best bet. But then, I'm still waiting to see Sheriff Joe Arpaio's documents. He looks a little brown to me, and I think that's against Arizona law.

  •  I would contend (0+ / 0-)

    that Cruz is not natural born. Natural born means born in US or territory considered US. It depends on if a consular form of US citizen born abroad was completed, I am not sure if the consular form overrides this.

    Basically, if any paperwork has to be done to make you a citizen, then you are not natural born. McCain had this problem because he was born in a part of Panama that was not considered a territory. The law was changed 9 months later, but at birth he was not natural born. McCain is a naturalized citizen.

    Cruz might be a citizen because his mother was, but that might not make him natural born as required to be president. Again, it is where you are born, not who your parents are. If both Obama's parents were Kenyan, he would be natural born because he was born in the US.

    I wonder, if he was born in Canada was he a Canadian citizen at birth? I will do more research because this is interesting.

    The only foes that threaten America are the enemies at home, and those are ignorance, superstition, and incompetence. - Elbert Hubbard -9.62/-8.15

    by GustavMahler on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 06:58:21 PM PDT

    •  Paperwork and what it means (0+ / 0-)

      The paperwork that parents file with the State Department is not to "make" the child a citizen: it is to prove citizenship.

      A baby born abroad to U.S. citizen parents is a citizen by birth.

      The parents submit proof of U.S. citizenship of one or both parents, and submit proof that they've had a baby, and it is the biological child of at least one U.S. citizen.

      If parents want to obtain a passport for a baby born in the United States, they file paperwork with the State Department to prove that the child is a citizen and eligible for a passport.

      What has to be proven is different.

      If the baby is born in the U.S., then to get a passport for the baby you have to prove birth in the U.S.

      If the baby is born abroad, then to get a passport for the baby you have to prove parental citizenship (U.S., obviously) and the birth of the baby to you.

      If the parents don't file the paperwork after they have the baby, the baby is still a U.S. citizen. His or her citizenship can be recognized years later after he or she files the documents proving all those facts. The U.S. government will be recognizing, not granting, U.S. citizenship in this situation.

  •  The twisted beauty of bad faith (0+ / 0-)

    meeting institutional cowardice wedded to beltway laziness is that you can do and say whatever it is you want, minute to minute, and it doesn't matter.

    Repeat that Birthers are Bipartisan.

    Say it until it is a meme.

    The obnoxiously hilarious truth is that it doesn't matter than the subjects of such speculation being in both parties doesn't actually make the Birtherism bipartisan.

    It's not as if Luke Russert or Mark Halperin have to read beyond the headline to repeat it later.

    The National Review doesn't have to actually name a non-Movement Conservative birther. They just need the headline out there. That's the genius of where we are right now in terms of our political discourse. They just need to say it's something both sides have their fingerprints on. Over and over and over again, and some idiot Villager will someday put it in a future column or piece. They might even include the phrase "the influential conservative magazine the National Review has reported that...." and nobody will say shit. At the WaPo. At the Times. At Time Magazine. The Daily Beast. That's all you have to do to "balance" out the GOP being overrun with crazy with phantom Democrats and liberals who don't actually have to exist to get some Village play.

    Movement Conservatism is almost entirely a bad faith-fueled movement. If you don't present them with a false equivalency to draw, they are free to simply make shit up. They couldn't do what they do without the Village picking up the ball and running with it down the line.

    When I see something like this, I don't see a RW epic fail, I see a RW meme being introduced to be repeated by non-Movement Conservative reporters and pundits later.

    I'm betting that Fred Hiatt will let an Op Ed be put on the Ed pages of the Washington Post citing the existence of bipartisan Cruz "Birthers" to advance some coming soon "DC is a disaster and everybody is to blame" scold.

    I am from the Elizabeth Warren and Darcy Burner wing of the Democratic Party

    by LeftHandedMan on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 06:58:31 PM PDT

  •  How is this about being a "birther?" (4+ / 0-)

    Nobody on the left disputes the fact that Cruz was born in Calgary, as he says.
    Whether under the Constitution he is eligible to be president is open to question, although it may well be that he is eligible.
    To have wondered about it does not make one a "birther."
    And let's hope the man never gets near the Oval Office, whether eligible or not.

    •  it isn't. look at the diary title (0+ / 0-)

      The National Review, a conservative magazine, is claiming that because Cruz is having his citizenship questioned that means "birthers" are bipartisan.

      Same old false equivalence

      Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
      Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights for support in dealing with grief.

      by TrueBlueMajority on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 09:27:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Over four years of relentless claims... (0+ / 0-)

    And then they switch target to somebody on their side...

    and the media uses the word "Bipartisan..."


    I don't blame Christians. I blame Stupid. Which sadly is a much more popular religion these days.

    by detroitmechworks on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 07:02:50 PM PDT

  •  You'd think they'd have more of a problem proving (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fulgour, Janet 707

    Rand Paul is from Earth.

    Not that it would be a major hurdle to their support of him as Cruz's running mate.

    If you don't think they will, you're wrong.

    by here4tehbeer on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 07:03:54 PM PDT

  •  But isn't Alberta the Texas of Canada anyway? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ender, Fulgour

    At least, that's the joke I often hear from Canadian friends.

    All your vote are belong to us.

    by Harkov311 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 07:04:17 PM PDT

  •  These people have wrapped themselves in their (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CyberDem, Sue B, Fulgour, True North, Janet 707

    own twisted logic, like boa constrictors squeezing themselves into nonsensical suffocation.

  •  Of course Cruz is eligible (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ender, Fulgour, Gordon20024, True North

    but he won't get the nomination. We progressives just aren't that lucky.

  •  Yes, but who wouldn't want to run against Ted Cruz (0+ / 0-)

    in a national election.

  •  What's Their Favorite Wiggle-Room Phrase? (3+ / 0-)

    I take him at his word.

  •  I like "Carnival Cruz" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gordon20024, PDiddie

    My heroes have the heart to live the life I want to live.

    by JLFinch on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 07:54:01 PM PDT

  •  Let's see (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Obama: citizen at birth
    Cruz: citizen at birth
    McCain: not a citizen when he was born do to a quirk. A law was later passed that retroactively made him a citizen at birth, but he was not a citizen when he was born.n

    "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is." - George W Bush

    by jfern on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 07:58:55 PM PDT

    •  And he's an ass who crashed 5 fighter aircraft (0+ / 0-)

      and nearly destroyed the USS Forestall single-handed.

      Show me one US Navy pilot that had the opportunity to crash their third aircraft. No one but an Admirals' son would be allowed to continue flying after destroying a forth very expensive piece of equipment.

      Yet, John McCain was given a fifth very expensive piece of military hardware to once again fail in a mission by disobeying orders resulting in the loss of aircraft and his subsequent capture by the enemy.

      As an aside - the military considers highly trained & briefed personnel such as he valuable assets, like property. So much time and money goes into training a Navy fighter pilot they are considered valued property.

      By disobeying orders McCain not only cost the Navy yet another fighter/bomber aircraft, he nullified all the time, money and training that went into his 'career'.

      Serious accountants may be able to calculate the total cost of McCain's time in the Navy from Annapolis, flight school, 5 aircraft, food, lodging, medical care and the myriad agencies involved in obtaining his release from capture.

      McCain was born in a US Government hospital and has been the beneficiary of publicly funded care and education his entire life. He's never knew a day without healthcare or a government subsistence check in one way or the other.

      What, sir, would the people of the earth be without woman? They would be scarce, sir, almighty scarce. Mark Twain

      by Gordon20024 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 08:57:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  McCain was the one I never believed eligible. (0+ / 0-)

      Natural born citizen means citizen at birth instantly.  McCain, in my eyes, was never valid.

  •  Rafael Edward "Ted" Cruz (0+ / 0-)

    So no Ted (intentional pun).

    Love is like a hot, it burns you when it's stove. ~ Gwen Dibley

    by Fulgour on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 08:05:01 PM PDT

  •  cruz's birth isn't (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    a reason to disqualify him to be potus its that he is bachmann crazy that should disqualify him, thats a game breaker to me.

  •  i thought there was still some question (0+ / 0-)

    about what "natural born" citizen means

    Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
    Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights for support in dealing with grief.

    by TrueBlueMajority on Wed Mar 27, 2013 at 09:16:38 PM PDT

    •  It means you are an American citizen at birth. (0+ / 0-)

      There is some debate on how far that can go, such in the case of McCain who was not a citizen at the moment of birth but was later made one.  

      Cruz was a citizen instantly, as soon as he drew breath.  He is eligible.

      It doesn't matter anyway, as he will never ever get the nomination.  The elite GOP would never allow it.

      •  are you a lawyer in this field? (0+ / 0-)

        AFAIK they have been arguing about this for quite a while and there is a lot of murkiness on the issue

        Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
        Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights for support in dealing with grief.

        by TrueBlueMajority on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 07:24:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No, but I have a law degree. I teach it. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          I received a law degree and decided the courtroom was not for me.  I simultaneously completed an education degree and went into teaching.  At first, elementary and secondary and then moved on to the college campus.

          I teach government, law practicum, and English at times.  

  •  Carnival Cruz is (0+ / 0-)

    a better nick. Really.

    "You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think." -- Dorothy Parker, who knew someone like Jeff Gannon

    by PDiddie on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 03:39:45 AM PDT

  •  It's funny because they're damned. (0+ / 0-)

    Their whole thing is hating the President because they think he was not born in America.  We know Cruz was born in Canada.  That isn't a conspiracy.  It's a fact.  You can't support Cruz without being a complete hypocrite.  You can't support Cruz without admitting that you hate the President not because he is ineligible but because of that 'other thing'.  So you're not only a hypocrite but also a bigot.  An irrational, hypocritical, emotional bigot and ...and that's not a good thing.

    I love calling him Calgary Cruz.  It reminds all those closet Teabaggers without the backbone to parrot their nutty talking points in front of me that Cruz is what they think Obama is ...foreign born.

  •  But there's no question of his place of birth -- (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The essence of Birtherism isn't even a question of law -- which was certainly addressed with John McCain and George Romney before him, if not directly answered by precedent. The Birthers insist on denying evidence of the President's birth as well as convoluted theories about the nature of citizenship. "Birtherism" is essentially about trying to ostracize the "otherness" of President Obama.

    The intent around the clause requiring a "natural born" citizen for the President was because the Founders were wary of the idea of importing a leader who did not have the allegiance of having grown up in the American culture - and this was more or less a direct swipe at the British Royal family, who were a German royal house that was simultaneously King of Hanover while King of the United Kingdom - although George III was born in England, his father and grandfather were not. The lack of having been brought up in the tradition of English Common law was considered one of the flaws of the rule by the King, and the weakened influence of Parliament and the lack of representation for the American colonies in the same to assert their rights under English common law were seen as inextricably linked.

    So if you want to take a page out of the Tea Party's histrionics and insist on following the Founders' intent, it has to do not really with the actual fact of birth so much as whether the candidate has been imbued with the American idea by their family, culture, and upbringing.  The facts of both Obama's birth and his pretty All-American upbringing (hardworking grandparents from Kansas, striving self-made mother) compared to living overseas for a couple of years in elementary school (something done by hundreds of thousands of military family kids every year, such as John McCain, born in Panama) clearly support the intent, and AFAIK Senator Cruz' bona fides in this area are just as valid. (Who could mistake him for anything but a guy from Texas, anyway?)

    Birtherism is really about aligning yourself with a fundamental unease with Obama because he's black, and looking for a legalistic cover for either conscious or unconscious reasons, depending on how racist you think you actually are.

    Some people are intolerant, and I CAN'T STAND people like that. -- Tom Lehrer

    by TheCrank on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 05:59:05 AM PDT

  •  I'd like to hear from the "Dunkers" (0+ / 0-)

    After all, if his bacon wasn't dunked in a Canadian lake when he was baptized, then he's not a true Christian, according to their opinion on PBO.

    you don't believe in evolution, you understand it. you believe in the FSM.

    by Mathazar on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 06:24:57 AM PDT

  •  Let's see we outsource our jobs, stash our (0+ / 0-)

    money offshore, import just about all of our clothes, we depend on foreign oil, we allow foreign country to pollute and destroy our local economy and environments, we continue to hold the hand of Israel to the tune of billions of dollars, why shouldn't we get our president from out of country?  Seems to me that would be the next step in the evolution.  Not that there is anything wrong with someone of mixed nationality or is part "brown" really I don't mind that but I am amazed that the right wing can't see the hypocrisy of their hysteria over "brown" people as absurd, but then Coulter so profoundly said of Herman Cain, "he's our black man" so Cruz and Rube must be their token 'brown" people.

    "To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medication to the dead." Thomas Paine

    by My two cents worth on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 07:32:07 AM PDT

  •  he is as eiligibile... (0+ / 0-)

    to be president as a Kenyan-born Obama is...

    "It's almost as if we're watching Mitt Romney on Safari in his own country." -- Jonathan Capeheart

    by JackND on Thu Mar 28, 2013 at 07:48:22 AM PDT

  •  The birther movement was started by ... (0+ / 0-)

    The Hillary Clinton campaign.

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