Skip to main content

Recreational anglers, commercial fishermen, Indian tribal leaders, family farmers, environmentalists, Delta residents and many elected officials strongly oppose the Bay Delta Conservation Plan (BDCP) to build the peripheral tunnels because they say it will lead to the extinction of Central Valley salmon, steelhead and other fish species.

Natural Resources Secretary John Laird and Governor Jerry Brown have constantly portrayed the BDCP as a visionary effort based on "science" to accomplish the "co-equal goals" of "ecosystem restoration" and "water supply reliability."

"Science has and will continue to drive a holistic resolution securing our water supply and substantially restoring the Delta’s lost habitat," said Laird on March 28. (http://www.dailykos.com/...)

However, a Brown administration official recently admitted that the Bay Delta Conservation Plan has nothing to do with saving the Sacramento-San Joaquin River Delta, the estuary that salmon, steehead, sturgeon, Delta smelt, striped bass and a host of other species depend on for survival.

While speaking with Tom Stokely of the California Water Impact Network (C-WIN) at a meeting with Northern California's Native American Tribes on Monday, April 15, Natural Resources Agency Deputy Director Jerry Meral said, "BDCP is not about, and has never been about saving the Delta. The Delta cannot be saved."

"I was flabbergasted because that's not what we've been told by politicians and state officials," said Stokely after the meeting.

"Now if Governor Brown and State officials would just stop pretending it's a habitat plan to save fish when speaking with the press," according to Restore the Delta's "Delta Flows" newsletter (http://www.restorethedelta.org/...)

Zeke Grader, executive director of the Pacific Coast Federation of Fishermen's Associations, commented, "It is indeed ironic that the BDCP, a supposed habitat conservation plan/natural communities conservation plan developed pursuant, respectively, to the federal and state Endangered Species Act, is not about saving the Delta or its fish. It is rather a giant water grab by Westside San Joaquin agribusiness and SoCal land speculators. Meral has just admitted what we've been saying all along - that the BDCP is a trojan horse for a massive heist of California's water."

Political science, not natural science, drives BDCP

Meanwhile, the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) have released new "red flag" documents in response to the administrative draft of the Bay Delta Conservation Plan that indicate that the prognosis for fish survival under the BDCP is not good, in contrast with Secretary Laird's false claim that the BDCP process is driven by "science."

These documents identify issues with BDCP that would make the fisheries agencies unwilling to issue the necessary "take" permits for a habitat conservation plan under the Endangered Species Act.

"For example, the NMFS response identifies a potential for increased salmon egg morality upstream resulting from release operations at Keswisk Reservoir at Shasta required by BDCP. Juvenile salmon in the Sacramento River would also be at risk under some scenarios," according to Restore the Delta (RTD).

"The likely extinction of winter and spring run Chinook salmon is an inevitable consequence of shifting water exports to the Spring months, which is what BDCP wants to do. Reducing flows in the upper Sacramento River in Summer and Fall of dry years creates problems that are not going to go away," RTD stated.

As for habitat in the Delta offsetting the loss of fresh water for fish, the USFWS called the prospects for fish such as Delta smelt and longfin smelt "uncertain."

"Since the point of a habitat conservation plan is to make things better for threatened species, not worse, you'd think a problem like this would be a game-changer. And it would, if the game weren't rigged. It would be just like BDCP planners to tweak the models to eliminate or disguise the obvious problems that keep arising when they look for ways to get lots of export water without harming fish," RTD said.

As Caleen Sisk, Chief and Spiritual Leader of the Winnemem Wintu Tribe, said, "The common people will pay for the tunnels and a few people will make millions. It will turn a once pristine waterway into a sewer pipe. It will be bad for the fish, the ocean and the people of California.”

The Bay Delta Conservation Plan may be be based on "science," but it's political science, not natural science, that drives the process. The only real goal of the BDCP is to export massive amounts of water to corporate agribusiness, Southern California water agencies and the oil industry, which is now expanding fracking operations in Kern County and coastal areas.

For more information, go to: http://www.restorethedelta.org.

The Brown administration's terrible environmental record

The rush to build the peripheral canal or tunnel is not the only abysmal Schwarzenegger administration policy that the Governor Jerry Brown administration has continued and expanded.

Brown and Natural Resources Secretary John Laird continued the privately-funded Marine Life Protection Act (MLPA) Initiative started by Governor Schwarzenegger in 2004. The conflicts of interest, failure to comprehensively protect the ocean, shadowy private funding, incomplete and terminally flawed science and violation of the Yurok Tribe's traditional harvesting rights have made the MLPA Initiative to create so-called “marine proected areas into one of the worst examples of corporate greenwashing in California history.

In a huge conflict of interest, Catherine Reheis-Boyd, President of the Western States Petroleum Association, chaired the Marine Life Protection Act (MLPA) Initiative Blue Ribbon Task Force to create so-called "marine protected areas" in Southern California. Reheis-Boyd, the oil industry's lead lobbyist for fracking, offshore oil drilling, the construction of the Keystone XL Pipeline and the evisceration of environmental laws, also served on the MLPA task forces for the North Coast, North Central Coast and Central Coast.

The Brown administration also authorized the export of record water amounts of water from the Delta in 2011 – 6,520,000 acre-feet, 217,000 acre feet more than the previous record of 6,303,000 acre feet set in 2005 under the Schwarzenegger administration.

Brown also presided over the "salvage" of a record 9 million Sacramento splittail and over 2 million other fish including Central Valley salmon, steelhead, striped bass, largemouth bass, threadfin shad, white catfish and sturgeon in 2011. (http://www.counterpunch.org/...)

Other environmental policies of the Schwarzenegger administration that Brown and Laird have continued include engineering the collapse of six Delta fish populations by pumping massive quantities of water out of the Delta; presiding over the annual stranding of endangered coho salmon on the Scott and Shasta rivers; clear cutting forests in the Sierra Nevada; supporting legislation weakening the California Environmental Water Quality Act (CEQA); and embracing the corruption and conflicts of interests that infest California environmental processes and government bodies ranging from the Bay Delta Conservation Plan to the regional water boards.

Originally posted to Dan Bacher on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 03:06 PM PDT.

Also republished by DK GreenRoots and Central Valley Kossacks.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Can't be saved? (23+ / 0-)

    I find that statement totally shocking.

    I was born in San Diego and I've spent most of my life in California and I just can't accept the notion that the Delta is doomed.

    I'm not all that happy with my Governor and I don't promise to vote for him in the event that he runs for another term.

    The only trouble with retirement is...I never get a day off!

    by Mr Robert on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 03:14:55 PM PDT

  •  the old jerry brown woudn't have okayed/this.. (21+ / 0-)

    Monsanto is poison,gotta be stopped. Can't afford rich people anymore;must cut back. People like Dick Cheney are evil, don't belong in government. We need @ 9 different revolutions in this country, and may they all crossoverlap soon..

    by renzo capetti on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 03:15:07 PM PDT

    •  That dude is long dead and gone. But (19+ / 0-)

      try telling that to these clowns who didn't even live here in the 1970's, who know nothing about our politics, but who feel Oh-So-Lefty voting for "Governor Moonbeam".

      This is the guy who went to bat to stop real 3 strikes reform, who won't support single payer health care, and who fought to keep cannabis illegal.

      The sad thing is that what's happened to him is just exactly what's happened to the Party.

      I love you stupid fucking fucks. Now stop poking at the dead cat on the table and get back to the issues.

      by JesseCW on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 03:18:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What on earth are you talking about? (4+ / 0-)

        Sad thing that's happened to Jerry Brown?  Dude, he's been one of the biggest fighters for the bullet train system we have.  Brown has been persistent since day one on bullet trains and getting them started ASAP.  

        Of course, it can be argued that the way Brown is conducting himself isn't appropriate but man, aside from funding issues and lack of transparency or efficient planning, Brown is a major supporter of high-speed rail.

        I'm not 100% happy with Brown but to point things out of the "sad state" of the party.  You do realize that the Democratic Party in California has gotten progressively more liberal?  And that the GOP is continuing to shoot itself in the foot in CA to the point where it can't even do voter registration as effectively.  I heard a story where there was voter suppression in Redwood City by a GOP poll worker.

        •  Wait! Wait! Brown does support one or (6+ / 0-)

          two good things!

          So did Arnie.

          Brown has become exactly the kind of "law and order" right winger he once campaigned against.  

          The Party has sanctioned cut back after cut back in essential services.  While it's great that they decided to stop encouraging discrimination against gay folks a decade ago, this isn't something that happened in a vacuum.

          The totality has not been a move Left ward, but an embrace of austarian idiocy.

          I love you stupid fucking fucks. Now stop poking at the dead cat on the table and get back to the issues.

          by JesseCW on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 05:42:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Jerry Brown is still to the left of most Democrats (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JohnB47, radmul

        Compared to Obama, he's practically a socialist.

        "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is." - George W Bush

        by jfern on Sun Apr 21, 2013 at 02:13:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  How? He opposes marijuana legalization, (0+ / 0-)

          he will not support Single Payer, and he has repeatedly cautioned an immense Democratic majority not to govern like Democrats for fear of overreach, opposing efforts to even raise the minimum wage to a living wage.

          So in what ways is he to the Left of the center of the California party, which favors all of these?

          What are his "practically a socialist" proposals?

          His extremely regressive sales tax hikes?

          His draconian cuts to essential services at a time when people are the most vulnerable they've been in three generations?

          His embrace of the Prison Industrial Complex that 20 years ago he opposed by that name while running for President?

          He was beaten by the DLC, and decided to join them.

          The Media told you was "Governor Moonbeam" 30 years ago and you bought the branding.  It's got nothing to do with his actually policies.

          I love you stupid fucking fucks. Now stop poking at the dead cat on the table and get back to the issues.

          by JesseCW on Sun Apr 21, 2013 at 01:53:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You overestimate the California Democratic Party (0+ / 0-)

            when it comes to its position on issues like single payer, minimum wage, et al.  The resolutions that we can (sometimes) get passed are aspirational -- there's your "feel-good" action, if you want to identify one -- but they neither necessarily bespeak a deep intention to act on those issues nor a willingness to shun and oppose those who disagree with them.

            I think that Brown is probably about at the center of where Democratic Party members stand on most issues, to the right of engaged party activists -- and to the left of the party elites who control much of what happens.  The last are often happy to see liberal lip service ... so long as it doesn't get in the way of profit.

            "I love this goddamn country, and we're going to take it back."

                                                                   -- Saul Alinsky

            by Seneca Doane on Sun Apr 21, 2013 at 03:40:20 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'd recommend checking the polls. Not just (0+ / 0-)

              Democrats, but the state as a whole backs a minimum wage of 10.50.

              That's what he suggested they stand down on.

              I love you stupid fucking fucks. Now stop poking at the dead cat on the table and get back to the issues.

              by JesseCW on Sun Apr 21, 2013 at 04:03:39 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  We should talk about polls some time (0+ / 0-)

                Somehow, what people say about something when asked off the cuff does not necessarily match their subsequent behavior, including their votes.  Politicians know this, eh?  Who would get punished for opposing such an increase?

                "I love this goddamn country, and we're going to take it back."

                                                                       -- Saul Alinsky

                by Seneca Doane on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 09:09:48 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  Come on, Jesse (0+ / 0-)

        Brown v.2010 is a mixed bag, but the mix in his bag is the best we've had since Brown v.1974 (or maybe Brown v.1978.)  It's just not as good as Brown v.1958 or Brown v.1962.

        Most of us don't support Brown because he makes us feel "Oh-So-Lefty," but because we haven't been able to get the likes of Garamendi or Solis or Bowen or Dave Jones or Kamala Harris into office.  (Not a one among them is perfect either.)

        Escalating the argument as you do into the supposed "feel-good" motives for supporting Brown just detracts from the issue at hand in the diary.  I had no (or at least few) illusions about him in 2010, but I wouldn't change that vote even with hindsight.  Brown's position on the Delta is long-held and deeply troubling -- but he can be beaten on this one.  Your criticism of motives doesn't help do so.

        "I love this goddamn country, and we're going to take it back."

                                                               -- Saul Alinsky

        by Seneca Doane on Sun Apr 21, 2013 at 03:34:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  the old jerry brown (16+ / 0-)

      was never all he was cracked up to be. And the new one isn't a whole lot better than Ahnold was.

      "Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war" - John Adams

      by esquimaux on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 03:19:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wow. Do you live in California to say that? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JohnB47, Sybil Liberty, Seneca Doane

        My job is a whole lot safer do to Jerry. And it really sucks, what has happened to this country's economy, but it does have to be corrected, and unfortunately, it burden will be born by the people of the state. It is getting corrected. More fairly than it might have been otherwise. There is a difference between forcing a false austerity on the people of the state, and not spending money that doesn't exist. Jerry has done the latter.  

        Allowing fracking in the state however, seems insane and wrong. And this business about the Delta, I had no idea about. If it's true, then something has to be done to stop it.

      •  Your first assertion is correct. (0+ / 0-)

        Your second assertion is ridiculous.  Yes, despite significant flaws, he is a whole lot better than Arnold was.  Go back and read old stories about Arnold from Calitics if you've forgotten what he used to do in budgeting.

        "I love this goddamn country, and we're going to take it back."

                                                               -- Saul Alinsky

        by Seneca Doane on Sun Apr 21, 2013 at 03:42:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  There was no "old Jerry Brown." (4+ / 0-)

      He was always reptilian.

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 03:40:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Bullshit. He backed it in 1982. (15+ / 0-)
      The Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta is an expanse of islands and levees that's home to farmers, vacationers and a unique native ecosystem. It's also a conduit for more than a third of Southern California's water supply. Gov. Jerry Brown ran into crushing opposition in 1982 when he backed a peripheral canal that would carry water around the delta to users in Southern California. Those users saw it as an extension of the system that greened their cities. Northern Californians, environmentalists and others saw it as a water grab. It was defeated at the polls by a 3-2 margin.
      http://articles.latimes.com/...

      And

      Also in 1982, Governor Jerry Brown was proposing to build a Peripheral Canal around the delta to move Sacramento River water directly to the massive pumps that send it to the South Bay, Central Valley and Southern California.
      http://www.spur.org/...

      Just google jerry brown peripheral canal to get more.

      Also, Jerry brown's mismanagement of California's surplus led directly to the groundswell that brought us Prop 13. Shitty governor then, shitty governor now.

      What we need is a Democrat in the White House.

      by expatjourno on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 03:42:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Nope! The old Jerry Brown tried to build the (9+ / 0-)

      Peripheral Canal in '82. The voters stopped him. This is old territory for him. He's just trying again. We will stop him again.  

      if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

      by mrsgoo on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 08:42:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  oh.didn't remember that.sad.and/wrong.sorry.. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Creosote

        Monsanto is poison,gotta be stopped. Can't afford rich people anymore;must cut back. People like Dick Cheney are evil, don't belong in government. We need @ 9 different revolutions in this country, and may they all crossoverlap soon..

        by renzo capetti on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 10:00:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  thanks Dan (31+ / 0-)

    for your coverage of an extremely important issue that most of Sacramento would prefer stayed unreported.

    "Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war" - John Adams

    by esquimaux on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 03:16:16 PM PDT

    •  Thank You!! for following the issue!!! Us folks in (6+ / 0-)

      the Delta have been feeling like this is slipping under the radar. Of course, a 50 billion dollar project IS gonna draw some attention and I am so glad to see that happening.

      if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

      by mrsgoo on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 08:46:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So you live in the delta, and you are aware of all (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mrsgoo

        this going on.  

        And you agree with the diarist, and his sources?
        Mrs. Goo, can you provide any more links, or a good source for the history of this problem? I am embarrassed to say I have no clue what is going on with this.

        I'd sure like to know,  though...

        •  Google is your friend and will be overwhelming. (0+ / 0-)

          Delta Vision Blue Ribbon, Delta Plan, BDCP. That alone will blow your mind.

          if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

          by mrsgoo on Mon Apr 22, 2013 at 11:59:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  isn't it the case that the Peripheral Canal has (25+ / 0-)

    always been about SoCal and AgriBusiness's need for water

    Warning - some snark above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 GOP Rep. Steve Stockman (TX):"If babies had guns, they wouldn't be aborted"

    by annieli on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 03:19:07 PM PDT

    •  Central Valley agri-business, YES. (20+ / 0-)

      SoCA, not so much.
        So CA has become the spotted owl of the CA water wars.  Big Corp. agri-business wants No. CA voters to believe So CA is to blame for sucking up so much water from No. CA,  so they can divert attention away from the fact Central Valley agri-business are the ones siphoning off most of it before it ever gets to L.A. and nearby counties.

      My Karma just ran over your Dogma

      by FoundingFatherDAR on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 04:27:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  THIS!!!!!! (12+ / 0-)

        In NorCal it's easy to rile the public up against SoCal. Easy to get people pretending it's a ballgame and chanting "Beat L.A."  But the enemy isn't Los Angeles and isn't San Diego, the enemy is Bakersfield.

        "Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war" - John Adams

        by esquimaux on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 04:56:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  well NorCal v. SoCal is forever, whereas (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mrsgoo, KenBee, GAS

          the Central Valley and the Sierras should be shared. I say this with approximately equal time spent in both halves and not enough in the rest (sic)

          Warning - some snark above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 GOP Rep. Steve Stockman (TX):"If babies had guns, they wouldn't be aborted"

          by annieli on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 05:31:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  So glad to see you commenting here annieli! (7+ / 0-)

            The Public Trust Doctrine allows for reasonable and beneficial use of water as long as no damage occurs to the source.   Water rights are not water ownership. The public trust rests with the people. The water falls in the Sierras and flows to the ocean. Much like.... Anyway, the San Joaquin watershed has long been impounded and basically no outflow occurs. This comment could be a f'n diary. But if you want to start to understand WTF is going on - following Dan is a great start. Another great website to follow is http://mavensnotebook.com/ And if you get a chance to catch a viewing of Over Troubled Waters - It's a great intro movie about what's going on in the CA Delta. http://www.restorethedelta.org/...

            if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

            by mrsgoo on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 09:22:54 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  thanks, I've looked at water's political economy, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              KenBee

              actually so I do understand the riparian issues, but I have only been casually interested in California water as a voter since the original Peripheral Canal conflict in the 1980s and more recently during the 1990s on water conservation in agribusiness. It's peripheral to some other renewables issues on the general history of US western land rights as well as renewable energy that I hope to get to once things get more settled (hah)

              Warning - some snark above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 GOP Rep. Steve Stockman (TX):"If babies had guns, they wouldn't be aborted"

              by annieli on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 09:42:48 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Thank you mrsgoo. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mrsgoo, GAS

              You are one of the straightest shooters on this site, and among the very best informed on this issue.

              Wish I could thank you in person, but will have to do so indirectl6 via restorethedelta.org.

              •  Actually, I have to get credit to the mr.goo (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                GAS

                He's on water like I'm on politics. Thank You for supporting restorethedelta.org! When I really need an obscure water fact - he's my go to guy! When he needs names and bs on legislation - I'm his go to gal. And Rocky The Cat don't give a shit as long as his fud and water bowl are full!  

                if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

                by mrsgoo on Sun Apr 21, 2013 at 12:13:39 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  mr.goo and mrs.goo both rock (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Creosote

                  Mr.goo and mrs.goo are both great advocates for the Delta. Mrs.goo is one of the most relentless and vocal defenders of the Delta on websites ranging from the Sacramento Bee, to the San Jose Mercury News, to here at the dailkos. As Delta residents and business owners, they both understand the terrible consequences to salmon, Delta fish populations, family farmers, Delta businesses and the people of California if the peripheral tunnels are built.  

                  •  Thanks Dan! That was awfully kind. Did you see (0+ / 0-)

                    the Sac Bee article on the Joint powers today? wow!

                    if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

                    by mrsgoo on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 12:02:35 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Well you both have my heartfelt thanks. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  mrsgoo

                  I can't see how anyone could sidestep your informed directness.

                  Maybe it's time for the Pacific Northwest to get into the water exporting business rather than just running it into the storm drains. Or rather, it should be a national system, so that the pipelines make jobs and make sense!

                  •  Thanks creosote! I have been thinking myself (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Creosote

                    lately that perhaps water needs to be viewed as a national rather than regional issue.

                    if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

                    by mrsgoo on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 12:05:20 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Thanks for this info. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mrsgoo, GAS
        •  Well, San Diego gets most of our water (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mrsgoo, Heart of the Rockies

          from the Colorado River, AFAIK, which is sucked so dry the water doesn't even reach the gulf anymore. But that's in Mexico, so I guess that makes it politically easier to deal with.

          Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.

          by AaronInSanDiego on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 06:07:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I cannot rec this comment enough! You got that so (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          annieli, Creosote

          fucking right!!! Now - keep preaching! We gotta break through the ballgame analogy!

          if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

          by mrsgoo on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 08:57:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I'm not referring to the issue of this great (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mrsgoo

          & important diary, but just the appearance of the phrase-

          the enemy is Bakersfield.
          made me spit out my coffee. As a Californio, it made me laugh with joy (again, not because of the issue discussed...just because....)

          America's greatest political dynasty...the Ka'an

          by catilinus on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 11:09:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  LOL! Way to late to be drinkin' coffee IMHO. But (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            catilinus, GAS, wu ming

            to each their own ;) I'm just glad you're here reading! And in reality the enemy isn't Bakersfield. The enemy is the SJ Valley corporate agri-businesses that think they should be at the head of the line for water. And they think they have the money and clout to do it. And so far, they have been winning. We gotta change that.

            if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

            by mrsgoo on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 11:19:58 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  YES!! The bastard behind this is Stewart Resnick (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        annieli, KenBee, Creosote, wu ming, NoMoreLies

        and his pomegranates and pistachios! They are Jr. water rights holders - that means you get SURPLUS water! No surplus - no water. They should be growing annual crops. Instead they planted trees and think that now they should be at the head of the fucking line for water. That is what this BDCP shit is all about. When Republicans in the Southern SJ Valley are holding FUNDRAISERS! for DiFi, you need to pay attention. As usual, it's all about the money! DiFi is NO friend of the bay and delta.

        if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

        by mrsgoo on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 08:56:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  and water for fracking...and in it's way worse (5+ / 0-)

        than the other so called 'reasons' for this diversions.

        This machine kills Fascists.

        by KenBee on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 10:08:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Also about flood control for the delta region. (7+ / 0-)

       Major worry is that a strong earthquake can shake down the dikes, and if it occurs in the spring after warm rains wash out the deep Sierra Nevada snowpack much of the agriculture and housing in the great central valley could be destroyed, along with the water system that currently supplys much water to the south.  
        Dikes are aging, over a hundred years old now, and nobody wants to upgrade them until the peripheral canal questions are answered.

       I am not optimistic.  I think we should throw in the towel for all environmental protections -- everything ever done to protect the natural environment here, at great cost to individuals in time and money -- gets destroyed, changed, overturned, and just doesn't seem effective.  

       Climate change has already decimated our pine trees, roaring forest fires will be the norm, sudden death oak tree algae is wrecking the coastal ranges, groundwater is badly contaminated, and fracking is on the way.  Population projections keep going up.  

       Something really big and horendous will need to occur to change this direction.    

    •  Drought is increasing & will get worse (8+ / 0-)

      Something horrendous is underway. There is absolutely no relief in sight for the worsening drought.

      look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

      by FishOutofWater on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 04:28:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Flood control has been an issue (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      HeyMikey, Sybil Liberty, Creosote

      there for decades and it's only worsened.  I grew up on the Delta.  My father was a heavy equipment operator up there for many years.  I cannot tell you how many times when I was a child he would be gone for days at a time, working on efforts to stop flooding.  Since I'm closing in on 60, this is not a recent issue.  

      If a quake hits there now, there is no question, the flooding will be devastating.  I was at an environmental law seminar a while back and the topic was discussed with guest speakers, scientists and environmental attorneys.  All those in "the know" were in agreement on that.  It was disheartening, to say the least.

      You are my brother, my sister.

      by RoCali on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 06:19:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  My visit to the Delta. (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mrsgoo, Sybil Liberty, KenBee, Creosote, RoCali

        I've never lived west of Mississippi, but in 2000 I won a week on a houseboat in the California delta. Till then I didn't even know California had a delta. My wife and I, our kids, my brother, and my nephew were there in summer 2001 on the houseboat. Had a great time at the Isleton crawdad festival.

        What a beautiful area. I hope the politicians end up doing the right thing.

        "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

        by HeyMikey on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 08:19:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  HeyMikey! You have just said what everybody says (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sybil Liberty, KenBee, Creosote, HeyMikey

          when they come and visit this place! They didn't even realize it was here and wondered at the natural beauty. It really is a special place and deserves to be protected.

          if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

          by mrsgoo on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 08:23:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  The earthquake is f'n propaganda used to sell (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KenBee, Creosote, wu ming, CA ridebalanced

      the fucking canal/tunnel. They have been running this canard for over 6 years now. No Delta levee has failed because of an earthquake. UCLA took on this challenge - and the results are not what the canal/tunnel people wanted to hear. I wrote a diary on this last year. CA-Water: Rockin' & Rollin' on Sherman Island. Will an earthquake destroy the water supply of CA?

      The canal/tunnel folks love this line. I cannot tell you how many times, we have had a quake in the area - I check the usgs site and report  I DIDN'T FEEL ANYTHING! on their Did You Feel It? site. And all around us - people felt it. This is another big fat goddamn lie we have to refute.

      if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

      by mrsgoo on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 09:39:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  New pipeline (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mrsgoo, Creosote, wu ming, CA ridebalanced

      runs through the Delta.  How is it supposed to avoid the effects of an earthquake?  I know that is what they say, but the people pushing the new pipeline always lie especially when they steal water and avoid required water flows through the Delta.  They were met with shotguns when they went on private land in the Delta.  No one wants this pipeline who lives near the Delta.  It costs lots of money.  How can they afford it?  Why not expand the desalinization process for the fat cats in the central valley?  The fish are just starting to return after 3 empty years and many years of water theft until the feds starting watching.  Shame on Jerry Brown.

      •  It won't. But once that water goes into the ground (4+ / 0-)

        and disappears into the pipe - no way will we be able to get it back. And what is really hilarious in a oh fuck me running kind of way - is that the latest BDCP docs say that the south delta pumping will continue in times of drought. So their argument to put diversions north in order to curtail pumping in Tracy are just fucking bullshit. The ONLY time that fucking tunnel makes sense is in high water years. That means winter. If the Sac is flowing huge - then yea - take water. That WÖULD protect the delta smelt. But those years are the exception, not the rule. There is a reason they do not want a cost benefit analysis. Ain't no benefit. They are now having a shit fit about the latest "red flag" memos from the the feds. Truth hurts motherfuckers. Your plan will extinct the Salmon. My sig line is from last years - red flag memos. My new favorite line this year is something along the lines of "you cannot substitute sediment for food for the fishes". The fuckers are boxing themselves into a corner. And their bullshit smells worse with every new release of documents. And I do not apologize for my language. I am boiling mad at this point. I am just glad to see one of Dan's diaries hit the wreck list and maybe this issue is getting attention. I will be the fruitloop at NN13 advocating the CA Delta! heehee!!

        if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

        by mrsgoo on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 10:54:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  what are you talking about? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CA ridebalanced

      nearly all of the housing in the central valley is nowhere near the delta levees, and most of the valley agriculture gets its water upstream of the delta, as it flows down out of the sierras. pumping water out of the delta to the west side of the san joaquin and socal will not do a damn thing for levee maintainance, and it will not benefit the lion's share of central valley agriculture. it's a con job to make the public pay for one part of the state's theft of another part of the state's water.

      •  In the past 20 years (0+ / 0-)

        a great deal of housing has been built in the Sacramento area right next to the river, with substandard dikes having been put in.   Look at a Map along highway 4.   Natomas, for sure.  There have been hearings about permits having been issued to allow housing in the low lying areas.  

        And houses don't need to be close to the river to flood -- only lower than the riverbank, even if it's far away.  There are a lot of lower lying areas in the valley -- before the irrigation systems were built, it was actually a great swamp, which accounts for it's fertility now.  

        Have you ever seen the Sacramento Bypass flood under highway 80 in a heavy rain year?  Incredible amounts of water as far as you can see.  

        In the 1980's there was considerable flooding along the San Joaquin river throughout Manteca and parts of Modesto.   A huge area was under water, including recently built housing developments, and the built up areas were threatened when the water that spring almost went over and through the old levees.

        There was a huge flood in the 1850s that nearly wiped out Sacramento -- 10 feet of water in the downtown area.  

        If you look at a contour map of the valley, you will see that there are a very great number of areas all up and down the basin that are below the level of the river.  

        About every 50 years there is a really heavy winter, followed by a warm heavy storm that washes everything down all at once, and there's helll to pay.  All the cows drown.  Everbody holds their breath that the levees won't break, then when the water drops, they go back to normal.  

        If we had an earthquake at the same time (and California's big quakes do tend to occur in the spring months) it would be terrible.  Even without an earthquake, those levees are not very stable nor well maintained.

        California has lost its collective memory as all the new techies have moved in, who've little interest in nature and her habits.  Farms are managed from far away now, and the oldtimers have moved out or died.  

        •  natomas ≠ the delta (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mrsgoo

          manteca ≠ the delta. i live in and grew up in davis, so i know all about floodwaters and the yolo bypass. there are river levees that need a lot of work in the valley, but they have nothing to do with the peripheral canal project, and they're not part of the delta, and they're not anywhere near a geologically active fault system (we're one of the only parts of california free of quakes). as for farms, there are lots and lots of farmers who still live here, and have been in farming for generations, it's not all absentee agribiz.

          you're conflating totally different things, and unintentionally passing on misleading talking points in the process.

          •  Yep! Can't rec this enough. (0+ / 0-)

            if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

            by mrsgoo on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 12:14:08 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Fer chrissakes - Mike Wade? Is that you? (0+ / 0-)

          if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

          by mrsgoo on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 12:15:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I am absolutely shocked (21+ / 0-)

    I grew up in the Bay Area and this completely horrifies me. The Peripheral Canal was bad enough. Wiping out the Delta is unacceptable for any reason. This is as bad as the Corps wanting to fill in the Bay. Why hasn't this gotten a lot more press? Oh, right...

    Organ donors save lives! A donor's kidney gave me my life back on 02/18/11; he lives on in me. Please talk with your family about your wish to donate.

    Why are war casualty counts "American troops" and "others" but never "human beings"?

    by Kitsap River on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 04:18:46 PM PDT

  •  How long till the delta water is inundated by salt (11+ / 0-)

    water, due to global warming induced sea level rise? Does anyone know how much sea level would have to rise?

    This seems inevitable. I suppose they can just siphon it off further upstream when this happens.

    Brown really has been a disappointment on many issues.

    •  That's a good question (6+ / 0-)

      That is a good question - and I don't have the answer.

    •  we don't even have to wait for that (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KenBee, mrsgoo, Creosote
      2. Many Delta crops we now grow are at the threshold of salinity tolerance for normal production due to excessive water exports. (Vegetable crops, beans and the newest emerging crop, blueberries.) Increased salinity levels would severely impact these crops and impact dozens more beyond economic survival.

      more on salinity:

      http://www.restorethedelta.org/...

      when it gets into the aquifers I guess we'll all be moving out of Northern CA

      (but not to TX)

      "Show up. Pay attention. Tell the truth. And don't be attached to the results." -- Angeles Arrien

      by Sybil Liberty on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 09:16:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  yep - you have nailed it. When mr.goo's folks (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Creosote, wu ming

        bought the property on Sherman Island - it was planted in Tomatoes and Asparagus. As part of the CVP/SWP mitigation - DWR acquired most of Sherman Island. They said they would put a pipeline in for fresh water from Emmaton for the farmers. Never happened. And the salinity station moved north from Emmaton to the Three Mile Slough Bridge.  And North Delta Water Agency sold Sherman Island the fuck out in 1981 for their rock solid water contract. Even though we still pay a property tax assessment to NDWA. So the water around Sherman Island is now too salty for row crops. The only reason BDCP gave a seat at the table for NDWA is that contract. That f'n contract is the ONLY thing protecting the north delta/Rio Vista from salt water. That contract is a thing of beauty in it's simplicity. If you read the BDCP documents - they are desperately wanting to move X2 (the salt water line) from Chipps Island further inland.

        I apologize to anybody reading this comment and going - WTF? There is no way to simplify this. The devil is in the details. I guess what I would suggest is to ask - where does MY water come from??  

        if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

        by mrsgoo on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 10:17:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  got whales? (0+ / 0-)

          why is it such a "mystery" that every so often a young whale loses its way in migration and swims up the Carquinez straits into Delta waters?

          "Show up. Pay attention. Tell the truth. And don't be attached to the results." -- Angeles Arrien

          by Sybil Liberty on Sun Apr 21, 2013 at 06:44:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  LOL!!! It seems we do occasionally! (0+ / 0-)

            if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

            by mrsgoo on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 12:18:20 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Salt water (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mrsgoo, Creosote, CA ridebalanced

      That is another excuse for the new pipeline that goes upstream for fresh snow melt.  Stop growing the expensive water crops for export.  We need the reduced snow melt for drinking water.  Our water supply this year from the Sierra is down due to the timing of the rain.  People first.  Fish count.  Rich farmers in the central valley can move elsewhere.

      •  Amen. Urban ratepayers for water subsidize farm (5+ / 0-)

        water to a degree that will make your head spin. The argument is that we need to do that because they are feeding the nation. Well, when we subsidize cheap water to farmers in the SJ Valley/Imperial Valley to grow pomegranate's, almonds and hay! for export to foreign countries - you cannot help to ask yourself WTF? That is the real evil in the BDCP. Water Contractors will pay for the infrastructure. Ratepayers will pay for the mitigation. This whole thing is corporate welfare on a scale that blows the mind.

        if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

        by mrsgoo on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 11:11:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I believe it's 5-7 feet of sea level rise will (0+ / 0-)

      extend SF Bay far into what is now the Sac Delta area. Effectively it will block the current flow of fresh water from the north to the south.
      Maybe it's 3-5 feet. Anyway, long after the politicians and ag-biz CEOs of today are dead, so it doesn't matter to them.

      Ash-sha'b yurid isqat an-nizzam!

      by fourthcornerman on Sun Apr 21, 2013 at 03:25:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  voted for Brown, couple times. (10+ / 0-)

    voted for Obama too. They have their moments, but sadly, only moments. I wonder where to look for representation.

  •  This is completely fucking maddening. (13+ / 0-)

    We have GOT to muster the resolve to pass a Constitutional amendment that will allow us to control campaign finance at all levels. That is our only hope for regaining control of the monster that is our "moneyed interests."

    Fight them to the end, until the children of the poor eat better than the dogs of the rich.

    by raincrow on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 04:44:04 PM PDT

  •  Brown is not swayed by data. He is a lawyer. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Creosote, The Wizard

    ...Son, those Elephants always look out for themselves. If you happen to get a crumb or two from their policies, it's a complete coincidence. -Malharden's Dad

    by slowbutsure on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 05:13:43 PM PDT

  •  This is why it can't be saved (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HeyMikey

    http://www.ucsusa.org/...

    By the end of the century, if global warming
    emissions continue unabated, statewide
    annual average temperatures are expected
    to rise into the higher warming range
    (8-10.5°F
    ). This temperature rise will lead
    to more precipitation falling as rain instead
    of snow, and the snow that does fall will
    melt earlier, thus decreasing the spring
    snowpack in the Sierra Nevada by as much
    as 90 percent
    .
  •  Sooo glad to see this on the Wreck List!! At least (10+ / 0-)

    the sonofabitches have stated what we in the Delta know to be the truth. This plan will extinct the Salmon. This plan will extinct the Striped Bass. This plan will fallow the most prime agricultural land in CA in order to ship water to the least productive and environmentally damaging land in CA. Please! CA - we have got to stop this corporate water grab!!!

    if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

    by mrsgoo on Sat Apr 20, 2013 at 08:20:01 PM PDT

  •  Excellent diary. Thanks. Nothing seems harder (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Creosote, mrsgoo, NoMoreLies

    than doing right by healthy watersheds and wild fisheries in today's profit-driven world. Information appreciated.

  •  Politicians don't give a shit about fish (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mrsgoo, Creosote

    or fisherman, recreational or otherwise, but they will  sometimes back commercial fishing interests if they can get something out of it. Most of their plans are terrible, back in 1987 the NY DEC came up with a plan to "save" the public from contaminated Raritan Bay clams. They would do this by allowing power dredging, which would fuck up the bottom of the bay and release PCB's fromt he sediment, and then deliver the clams to Long island Sound clammers for depuration.  WTF? It would have fucked up everything. Why not just allow traditional handraking? No, the clams are too polluted, they said. never mind it was being done on the NJ side of the bay without a problem, i guess only NYC clams were contaminated. Then someone found out state law said clams taken from contaminated water had to be destroyed, so the DEC then said well we might have to send the clams to the dump. Prompting people to wonder why the fuck we should be killing clams that weren't harming anyone and were providing food for bass and flounder. Because, the DEC said, someone might eat them. You'd get dizzy tryingto keep up with the state's reasoning. What it came downto was this; striped bass was goingto game fish status, and it didn't look like commerical fishermen were ever getting them back. they were also contaminated. So some assholes in the DEC were persuaded to give the LI fishermen some Raritan Bay clams as compensation, even tho the bass fishermen weren't even in the clam business. Aside from all that, power dredging wasn't even permitted inthe bay. What a clusterfuck. The other issue that recurs is the borrow pits, at the bottom of the bay; sand used to build the NJ turnpike left huge underwater holes that attracted marine life. The Army Coprs wanted to fill them back in to " restore the natural habitat" by filling them with toxic dredge spoils. i give the fuck up. then there was Mario Cuomo and the West Way project, which would have threatened striped bass. All of this was under Democrats, folks.

    •  Well, I guess I have to take solace in the fact (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      leftangler

      that your shit back there is just as f'd up as our shit out here!
      And it was prolly one of your ancestors that introduced the goddamn Striped Bass into CA!

      For those of you just getting started in the thrill of striper fishing-a few facts from the Department of Fish and Game: Two small plants of striped bass from the East Coast were made in California. The first release of 132 small fish was made near Martinez in 1879 and in 1882 an additional 300 were released in lower Suisun Bay. Within 10 years a commercial fishery had developed and did well until it was closed in 1935 in an effort to build up the sport fishery.
      Amazingly enough - the Striped Bass and Salmon co-existed for 150 years (NoH8!) until the state started pumping water down south at speeds.

      Out here on Sherman Island, we are spending taxpayer money  to MOVE! the scour pond (where the levee broke in '68) inland! DWR has decided that the scour pond is habitat. So we need to fill the scour pond created in '68 and create a NEW scour pond because the old scour pond is too close to the levee and it represents a hazard to the integrity of the levee.

      I think ya'll ought to just send those damn clams out here. We're already one of the most invaded estuaries in the world. What's one more invasive species? Are they better with garlic and butter or hot sauce and lemon?

      if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

      by mrsgoo on Sun Apr 21, 2013 at 12:01:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Don't give them any ideas! (0+ / 0-)

        "I think ya'll ought to just send those damn clams out here."

        Don't give Jerry Brown, John Laird, or DFW Director Chuck Bonham any ideas! LOL.

        •  Oh fine. If you insist. I love bivalves. Oysters! (0+ / 0-)

          I love Oysters with Crystal and lemon. ummmmm.....

          if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

          by mrsgoo on Tue Apr 23, 2013 at 12:28:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site