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This diary voluntarily removed; if anyone would like me to resend to their email, let me know. Apparently, someone didn't like my take or spiel on Native American history and I'd rather not quibble about such things. Nevertheless, I think my research on the subject has been meticulous and culturally sensitive. Thanks for your understanding.

Originally posted to richholtzin on Sat Apr 27, 2013 at 07:40 AM PDT.

Also republished by Community Spotlight.

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Comment Preferences

  •  asdf (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mary Mike, blueoregon, RiveroftheWest

    The picture just above this caption , 'View of travertine wall looking up from Mooney Falls', is totally awesome!!  The eroded stone looks like a waterfall itself!

    •  Since you brought it up. . . (7+ / 0-)

      nchristine, I'll share a little story with you and our community about how Mooney Falls got its name. . .his name was Jim Mooney, I believe, who was a miner at the turn of the century, or sometime around that time, and he was on a boatswains' ladded working beneath the upper part of the falls and the rope got stuck. Well, for a couple of days he and his pals couldn't get the ladder down or up and that's where Mooney sat and waited and look down at a great distance on the inside of the thundering falls. Imagine what that sounded like, too. Well, on the third day, I think it was, either the lad fell, jumped or made an attempt to climb down the falls, then slipped. His body lay in the pool of water, somewhere around one of the built-up travertine pools. The guys couldn't find a way down to that part of the Redwall, the lower half, and had to leave his body. The next year they came back and managed to find a route down to that lower sector and retrieve Mooney's body. Only it was already richly coated with travertine. And that's what travertine does, besides: it coats everything that is stationary, even twigs, leaves, slow-moving bugs (just kidding about that). Anyway, thanks for posting you comment. And, yes, travertine is awesome, but if you fall on the stuff you either break skin, bone or the injury turns fatal. It's hard as a rock!

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Sat Apr 27, 2013 at 08:33:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Another wonder diary - I'd had NO idea! (3+ / 0-)

    But:  that brown stuff makes the water BLUE?

    I've only ever heard of 'travertine' in close proximity to 'marble'.

    I am a leaf on the wind - i hover, twirl, float,
    Weightless, frictionless, I fly

    by chmood on Sat Apr 27, 2013 at 08:52:10 AM PDT

    •  it's what's in the mix. . . (5+ / 0-)

      the minerals, the composition of same, is what makes Havasu Creek's waters so engaging to the eye. There are a variety of colors, in fact, given travertine pools. For instance, the red tincture of travertine terraces are due to iron carbonate in the water. For Supai's lovely tincture, it's the calcium carbonate (lime) in the water that formed the limestone that lines the creek and reflects its color so strongly. The travertine, itself, is brownish and quite a contrast to the creek and falls setting. Thanks for asking and I guess I may even have left this tidbit of info out of the diary, for some reason. I'll have to check and if so I can embed some chemistry info later on (into the text). Thanks for asking and thanks for posting your comment, chmood.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Sat Apr 27, 2013 at 09:03:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Amazing diary, thank you. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bluebuckaroo, RiveroftheWest

    I've never heard of this place. learn something new....

    Too many in this country feel the Constitution should include the 2nd Amendment. And nothing else.

    by blueoregon on Sat Apr 27, 2013 at 09:20:09 AM PDT

    •  best experienced. . . (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bluebuckaroo, RiveroftheWest

      by dropping in for a visit some time, blueoregon. Just pack your bags and go, right? Glad you got to see Havasupai's profile. It sure is enticing, isn't it? I mean, the setting is just, well, kind of like an Eden-on-the-planet.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Sat Apr 27, 2013 at 10:08:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Outstanding diary (3+ / 0-)

    Thank you thank you thank you!

    76.7% of all statistics are made up.

    by threegoal on Sat Apr 27, 2013 at 10:39:54 AM PDT

    •  and you're welcomed. . . (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RiveroftheWest

      welcomed. . .welcomed, threegoal. It's always a pleasure for me sharing this beautiful side canyon Eden. Even going there repeatedly over the past 40 years I am always blown away by the atmosphere. Thanks for posting your comment and I thought it was 96.6%! (Your tagline. . .cute!)

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Sat Apr 27, 2013 at 11:25:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Just incredible (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RiveroftheWest

    The water color is amazing. And vistas are breath taking. Nice pics.

    Obama Style Justice: Make 99% of Bush Tax Cuts Permanent. Then cut Senior's Social Security to pay for it. Hey Grandma, F#@K YOU!

    by CitizenOfEarth on Sat Apr 27, 2013 at 11:01:46 AM PDT

  •  Wonderful Diary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RiveroftheWest

    The history and images weave a rich tale. Like so many diary's by Ojibwa, I am saddened to read the history of the Tribe's interaction with colonial imperialism.

    "Political ends as sad remains will die." - YES 'And You and I' ; -8.88, -9.54

    by US Blues on Sat Apr 27, 2013 at 11:23:05 AM PDT

    •  Colonial imperialism. . . (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RiveroftheWest

      it is and was, US Blues. . .and a long-standing policy that finally caved in to fairness and getting the right people behind the ball that moved forward for a change. Sometimes I wonder how Native Americans can even stand the rest of us given such a tract. Then again, that was Zen and this is Tao and it is good our minds and hearts have healed and a wiser and fairer or more just course has been taken. As for Ojibwa's diaries. . .those are among my favorites submitted on our community's site. I am also a decent part Cherokee and somehow I think cellular memory kicks in and allows me to get in touch with an historical past and shame that needs retelling, solely for the fact I hope we never return to such fascism and insensitive policies. Hope not.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 05:41:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Buck. Et. List. (3+ / 0-)

    There aren't many must-visit places for me, but this is one of 'em.

    Thanks again!

    It's time to start letting sleeping dinosaurs lie, lest we join them in extinction by our consumption of them.

    by Leftcandid on Sat Apr 27, 2013 at 12:58:26 PM PDT

  •  Brings back memories... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RiveroftheWest

    My high school geology class hiked this canyon on spring break in 1974. IIRC, we camped one night above the village, then 3 nights at Mooney Falls. One day the more adventurous went on down to the Colorado, but some of us (yours truly included) just explored around the camp.

    And soda at the general store in the village was a whopping 50 cents...

    Thanks for the wonderful travelogue!

    •  2 or 3 bucks by now. . . (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ishmaelbychoice, RiveroftheWest

      the increase in costs for tourists and tribal members alike. Still, how can you put a price on such beauty and the cost of enjoying same? I think the Taj Mahal is now something like fifty dollars (USD) for visitors, or close to it. In any event, things are changing and if we're going to visit such places, as Supai, then we pay the money. Period. Otherwise, there is no entry into this Eden of the Grand Canyon. So, thanks for posting your comment and you, like me, got to enjoy that wondrous setting in the early 1970s. The setting hasn't chance since then; only the amenities, the costs, and the ever increasing crowds that are drawn to this western ramparts of the Grand Canyon.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Sat Apr 27, 2013 at 04:07:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Havasupai (3+ / 0-)

    What a wonderful tale about an incredible place! I have always had a fascination with water and waterfalls in particular. These look like the waterfalls to beat almost all waterfalls as far as beauty and spectalularity (is that a word?) I had no idea of this village so near the Grand Canyon. The story of these people is so similar to that of all of the Native American tribes that the U.S. Government treated with cruelty and disdain. All Americans should feel shame for what was done to these people to further enrich the government and settlers who took advantage of it. Andrew Jackson was particularly disgusting in his treatment of the Native Americans. I am so happy that the government did the right thing (finally!) and gave the land back to the people to whom it belonged. I guess better late than never. I would love to hike down there and stay and explore a few days. Who knows - maybe I will! Thank you again for your fine description of this place. It is a wonderful read and I can see it all in my imagination as I read.

    •  my reply (below)... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cv lurking gf, RiveroftheWest

      to RiveroftheWest also applies to your comments, wynative. We do have such a sordid past in our politics, and we do have a most commendable past in some respects. I am particularly thinking of Mr. Lincoln and what he tussled with in his time, and lost his life for it. But sometimes we Americans really do the right thing. I am thinking of how far we've come in civil rights, lgbt rights, animal rights, political paradigms that had been stalled for centuries, and so on. So, yes, I'm the 'half-full' kind of guy. I do see our history through a jaundiced eye in some ways, in some parts, but not altogether. By retelling of its process, even the shameful parts, such as what happened to these Blue-Green people, we can achieve a catharsis and get on with the process in a fairer, gentler way. Remind me to share with you the story of Old Burro, who was the tenant farmer at Indian Garden (below present-day Grand Canyon Village), and how he was ordered to abandon his agrarian interests and get the hell out of the canyon that became (or was about to) a national park. He died, I think it was, some 6 months later, on the rim, and it is said the cause was a broken heart. Anyway, that's a bit too maudlin, though worthy of what happened at the time.  

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 05:36:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Completely gorgeous. I've heard of this place (0+ / 0-)

    but never knew much about it. Too bad the people had to suffer so long waiting for the government to do even a little of the right thing.

    The red cliffs, white falls and turquoise waters are as beautiful as anyplace I've ever seen. Thank you for giving us this beautiful diary.

    •  Ah, meant to ask you about the artist (0+ / 0-)

      who did the lovely painting? I can't quite read the name.

    •  our government. . . (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cv lurking gf, RiveroftheWest

      learns, or should learn, by its past mistakes. I know we've come a long way in the human rights march, and that's a very good thing about America: we tend not to hide our dirty laundry, as it were, at least the sleuthing by historians who want to get the picture right. And we generally do. But, yes, our historical path is also tainted with mistreatment of people, and that mistreatment began with the unscrupulous politics given the likes of the Department of the Interior (early on), the Secretary of State (again, early on), and the whole shebang of insensitive politicians and scheming enterprising types who didn't know how to play fair with others. Certainly is a topic rift for someone in our community to pick up on (as a diary series) and so who's going to pick up the gauntlet? As always, thanks for posting your comments and for the support. Very happy you liked this particular diary, too.

      Treat the world (yourself, and others) as part of a living organism. Everyone and everything will benefit.

      by richholtzin on Sun Apr 28, 2013 at 05:28:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  brings back memories (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RiveroftheWest

    About ten years ago my then 10 YO son and I made this trip with an Austin-based anthropologist guide (and some of my son's classmates) whose PhD was on prehistoric earthen cooking practices.  He'd made the trip several times and knew many of the local guides and wranglers in Supai.  

    Beauty aside, and there is plenty of that, the single lasting image in my mind will always be our first contact with native villagers upon our initial sighting of the sentinels.

    They were two barefoot youngsters strolling along the path coming towards us, having just left the village.  They were both 5-8 YO and hugely overweight.  One was drinking from a 32 oz plastic bottle of soda and the other noshing from an open bag of Cheetos (or some such).  

    Richard, our guide, explained that every food product the villagers ate was helicoptered in and came from either a box, a can, a bag or a bottle.  He said there wasn't a chicken or a cow on the reservation nor a single vegetable garden.  

    Somewhere along the way these people had lost virtually all trace of their heritage.

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