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On Monday, April 29th, approximately two hundred people gathered in front of the Market Street offices of SF Pride in San Francisco to protest SF Pride's vituperative statement announcing that a mistake had been made: Bradley Manning would not in fact be Grand Marshall of the Pride Parade this year, despite being voted that honor. In that statement SF Pride made clear that support for actions like his "would not be tolerated." I found that statement disgusting.

 photo ellsberg-i-am-manning_zpsef56b9f5.jpg

I was one of those two hundred.

I was enthralled to hear that Daniel Ellsberg would be speaking, and he did not disappoint. I felt honored just to be able to stand there, fifteen feet away, and hear the man who in my youth, "was Bradley Manning" as he today and in the past has described himself. This is part of what he had to say.

...At the Gay Pride parade, I guarantee to you that I will be marching in that parade, for the first time for me, with a banner honoring Bradley Manning. If that will not be tolerated by the leadership, I guess I'm in for a little intolerance...


What a clusterfuck. Earlier this month the Executive Board of San Francisco Pride, which hosts the annual Gay Pride parade in San Francisco, conducted an election to decide who would be this year's Grand Marshall. Votes were cast by former Grand Marshalls of the parade; Bradley Manning was nominated and won that election.

Manning, a gay US Army private, is now imprisoned by the US Military, about to undergo a court martial. He is accused of releasing documents that harmed the United States; an offense that could theoretically get him the death penalty. By many, though, he is considered a hero for getting those records out, much in the spirit of Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers. He is heralded by some for leaking one video in particular showing US Forces killing Iraqi civilians indiscriminately from a helicopter. This video has ended up having enormous political ramifications in both Iraq and the United States, but was suppressed for years... until Manning got it to Wikileaks.

The Executive Board of SF Pride decided to nullify the election results they themselves conducted, declaring in a press release that "any hint" of support for Bradley Manning "would not be tolerated." An absolutely incredible use of language when all one has to do is think back a few years to the lack of "support" and the "intolerance" by the majority for every member of the group SF Pride is supposed to represent.

How quickly it is that the humans and pigs can no longer be told apart.

The public side of the vote nullification was done over the weekend of April 27th-28th. (Details on the inside politics here.) In response, in a single day an event was organized by San Francisco LGBT activists to protest this insult, both to Bradley Manning and to the spirit of the gay rights movement, from Stonewall to ActUp to GetEqual.


 photo ellsberg-speak-pride_zps9bd4de10.jpg
Daniel Ellsberg speaking at yesterday's rally.

One former Grand Marshall, Joey Cain, noted

Whether or not you believe he is a traitor or hero, San Francisco Pride has always been about embracing the diversity of genders, colors and opinions that are in the LGBT community. We have always done that.
There is another part to this sordid fiasco. If the villification of Bradley Manning - someone who exposed murder and corruption - by SF Pride is not enough to turn your stomach, then consider the sponsors of the Pride Parade this year:

Wells Fargo and Bank of America.

Yes, these two stunning examples of corporate America at its best, responsible for destroying the lives of hundreds of thousands of families through fraudulent foreclosures and evictions, and partly responsible for a massive world recession, are both prominent sponsors of the parade.

SF Pride purports to care about the allegation that Bradley Manning placed

in harms way the lives of our men and women in uniform.
but they have evinced no concern whatsoever about the harm that has been done by their sponsors to large numbers of American citizens. Just a few days ago a report was issued that noted that despite California legislation known as the Homeowner's Bill of Rights, Bank of America continues to defraud homeowners of their houses.
... there is evidence that Bank of America and its subsidiaries skirted proper procedures in foreclosure filings. These practices included lying on fraudulent loan transfers and altering dates on property records, which allowed Bank of America to initiate foreclosure and collect payments and fees for home loans it did not own.
Wells Fargo has been equally, if not even more, vile in its heartlessness (see, e.g., Wells Fargo Has MORE Blood on its Hands and Wells Fargo Has Blood on its Hands).

This is the kind of blood money SF Pride is using to pay for its parade.

However history will judge Bradley Manning, SF Pride had no business, verify no moral standing whatsoever, to publicly villify him. If they had any sense, they would shove BofA and Wells Fargo under the Grand Marshall's float that Bradley Manning should be riding atop of.

-----

Photo credit: @marymad took the rally photo.

Originally posted to jpmassar on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 08:14 AM PDT.

Also republished by Occupy Wall Street, California politics, SFKossacks, Milk Men And Women, and Angry Gays.

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Comment Preferences

  •  excellent article shows co option of issues (11+ / 0-)

    gay rights is, or should be, part of the larger issue of civil rights and civil liberties

    but we have experienced here in the good old USA a corporate coup d'etat (Chris Hedges term)

    as noted in your comments, the very organizations who violated our rights have been drawn into the Pride Parade which shows how movements can be brought into the main stream when the oligarchy wants to do it.

    excellent article by Glenn Greenwald on this topic.

    Bradley Manning is off limits at SF Gay Pride parade, but corporate sleaze is embraced
    A seemingly trivial controversy reveals quite a bit about pervasive political values

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/...

  •  Frankly whether Bradley Manning (6+ / 0-)

    is honored—or not—at SF's gay pride will not make a hill of beans of difference in combating America's culture of war and virtual enslavement to the Military Industrial Complex.

    Protesting SF gay pride over choosing to not honor Bradley is, in my opinion, real circular firing squad.

    The queers of SF are having a pie fight over Bradley Manning? Does the DOD or Haliburton or United Nations or The Hague or the President or anyone with a modicum of power care in the least, do you think?

    "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."
    —Dan Savage

    by Scott Wooledge on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 08:28:04 AM PDT

    •  No one's protesting over their choosing not to (12+ / 0-)

      honor him per se.  They could have done that easily and quietly.

      They're protesting his vilification, the undo influence of corporate sponsors, the implicit condemnation of the spirit of the long fight for equality and justice by LGBT people, and the usurpation of the process by which Grand Marshalls are chosen.

      Basically, there's some seriously rotten shit in Denmark.

      Personally, I find their Orwellian remarks the most disturbing.

      Will anyone care? Perhaps not. But Manning is known around the world.

      •  I don't find that frame correct (0+ / 0-)

        they are two different issues that are being conflated as an either/or choice.

        • Should the corporatocracy be in charge of gay pride?

        • Should gay pride honor Bradley Manning?

        The answer to both questions can easily be NO.

        It's a false choice.

        "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."
        —Dan Savage

        by Scott Wooledge on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 08:55:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yet your "inside politics" link (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        johnny wurster, MBNYC

        indicates it was not pressure from corporations that caused the about face.

        It was not until LGBT military groups from outside of San Francisco began to bombard San Francisco Pride’s office with phone calls and emails that the Board decided Pride would not honor Manning.
        Sean Sala, a gay veteran and activist, was a key player involved in generating outrage that led to the Board’s capitulation.

        Sala participated in a chat on Salon with Lt. Dan Choi, a gay veteran and activist who supports Manning, on Monday. He had previously said that he believes Manning is a “traitor” and that he has done nothing for the LGBT community. And, during the chat, he shared that he had been working to get the Pentagon to certify uniforms so that gay and lesbian service members could wear them in Pride parades.

        “You would not believe the protocol I had to follow. How much right and left agendas tried to ‘spoil’ the March with their own personal agendas,” Sala said. “I had to keep the message pure, honor the Military. Follow protocol. For the respect of our country and the integrity and protection of military individuals participating.”

        He stated unequivocally that part of his opposition to Manning’s nomination had been driven by the fact that he did not want the Pentagon to not allow LGBT service members to wear uniforms in the Pride parade.

        “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

        by Catte Nappe on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 09:20:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The LGBT military groups (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jpmassar, Catte Nappe, MBNYC

          like Sean Sala of San Diego, Josh Seefriend of OutServe , American Military Partners, and others did bombard them with protests and encouraged their members to do the same.

          This I know first hand.

          "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."
          —Dan Savage

          by Scott Wooledge on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 09:29:55 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Then it's not the "corporatocracy" (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jpmassar, johnny wurster, MBNYC

            It's an issue of local vs outside inlfuence, or difference of opinion on the Manning situation (which I know from here on DKos can be quite heated). Whatever the sins of the banksters, this kerfuffle doesn't seem to be on their doorstep.

            (and as an aside, if one wants sponsorship funds for an event, one goes where the money is - hat tip Willie Sutton)

            “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

            by Catte Nappe on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 09:41:27 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  see article by Glenn Greenwald linked above (6+ / 0-)

      he puts the article in the context of what is going on

      he provides another example of the 'Death of the Liberal Class' book by Chris Hedges.

      Once Again—Death of the Liberal Class

      This article came out a few days after Obama elected for a second term.

      The presidential election exposed the liberal class as a corpse. It fights for nothing. It stands for nothing. It is a useless appendage to the corporate state. It exists not to make possible incremental or piecemeal reform, as it originally did in a functional capitalist democracy; instead it has devolved into an instrument of personal vanity, burnishing the hollow morality of its adherents. Liberals, by voting for Barack Obama, betrayed the core values they use to define themselves—the rule of law, the safeguarding of civil liberties, the protection of unions, the preservation of social welfare programs, environmental accords, financial regulation, a defiance of unjust war and torture, and the abolition of drone wars. The liberal class clung desperately during the long nightmare of this political campaign to one or two issues, such as protecting a woman’s right to choose and gender equality, to justify its complicity in a monstrous evil. This moral fragmentation—using an isolated act of justice to define one’s self while ignoring the vast corporate assault on the nation and the ecosystem along with the pre-emptive violence of the imperial state—is moral and political capitulation. It fails to confront the evil we have become.
      http://www.truthdig.com/...
      •  I find it a little funny (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jpmassar, MBNYC

        that  Glenn descended from the mountain to discuss domestic LGBT issues.

        I'm serious. I have great respect for him as a writer, and his thoughtful big picture. But he's never before concerned himself with a domestic LGBT issue, aside from one essay on DOMA years ago.

        So he's dropping in talk to the queers in SF about how they should run their pride parade?

        "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."
        —Dan Savage

        by Scott Wooledge on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 09:26:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, he is gay (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          aliasalias, jpmassar, Don midwest

          and he's effectively exiled because of who he fell in love with. So I think he gets to talk about this.

          Not to mention the fact that he's been on the Manning story since the beginning.

          If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

          by AoT on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 10:37:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Of course. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AoT, jpmassar

            Just pointing out aside from being gay I don't know what credentials he has on LGBT domestic issues.

            "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."
            —Dan Savage

            by Scott Wooledge on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 10:49:27 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  how about reading his arguments and facts (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jpmassar

              do you agree with them?

              he makes the case that the corporations that are stealing our civil liberties are the ones that are in the mix to block Bradley manning

              who is a hero who is trying to restore a democracy here at home

              and when gay rights was an outside player, they were running under the banner of civil liberties

              now that they are in the acceptance by the oligarchs they put in place leaders to keep their place at the table, like the labor unions.

              criticize anyone who shows the corruption of the system

              •  Fine he's correct. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                AoT

                But why don't we take Memorial Day parades to task for not naming Bradley Grand Marshall?

                SF Pride is such a tempest in a teapot pie fight in the big picture, imo.

                And Glenn be happy when those gay friendly corporations twist some Senators' arms to repeal DOMA so he can bring his Brazillian BF here. (And they will, they twisted arms to pass gay marriage in NY.)

                "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."
                —Dan Savage

                by Scott Wooledge on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 12:53:51 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  Also, it's not just queers. (9+ / 0-)

      There's plenty of support for Manning in the wider community.  Anti-war peeps, a support network for Manning, whistleblower supporters, etc.

    •  Nice diversion (8+ / 0-)

      The MIC thought Bradley Manning was important enough to make an example of him by abusing him and sadly, some SF pride organizers are trying to curry favor with the MIC by not merely denouncing and lying about Manning but by saying any support for him "will not be tolerated."

      It's an unsurprising but depressing spectacle.

      •  So the theory of change is (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jpmassar, johnny wurster

        Bradley Manning is honored at SF Gay Pride and the DOD/DOJ says, "Geez, the queers in San Francisco support Manning? Charges dropped!"

        "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."
        —Dan Savage

        by Scott Wooledge on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 08:56:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The theory is don't throw him under a bus. (5+ / 0-)
        •  So unless an issue (5+ / 0-)

          has direct implications for the future of the MIC, it's unworthy of discussion and activism? When did you establish this threshold?

          More to the point, perhaps, this issue is indeed related to the capacity of the left to change the course of the country. When you have member of the gay establishment in San Francisco kowtowing to the warfare state and distancing itself from its opponents, you know something's wrong.

          How's this for a theory of change? Oppressed and marginalized and exploited people of all races, creeds, and sexual orientations work together to challenge power? The effort is weakened when some break away to kiss up to power.

          •  Well, full disclosure (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Catte Nappe, johnny wurster

            I worked closely with many LGBT military people on DADT repeal just two years ago.

            And many of them, may be familiar to you, like Josh Seefried who runs OutServe and Stephen Snyer Hill (who you remember when he was booed at the GOP primary debate?).

            And they are really very angry at the suggestion that a community they are a part of should honor Manning.

            So, I have some empathy for position.

            You may see military people who dislike Manning as thoughtless tools.

            But in reality, people who can't or won't follow the rules in combat situations actually get people killed. This is not hyperbole. People like Snyder-Hill and Seefried. So a loose cannon like Manning, however well-intentioned (and I'm not certain his intentions were as admirable as he's being portrayed) does present a very real threat to their life and I can see where they are uncomfortable with lionizing him.

            And I think their opinions matter. Just the same as any other segment of the LGBT community's opinions would matter. If lesbians were upset about a anti-feminist being honored, I'd be sympathetic to that as well.

            "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."
            —Dan Savage

            by Scott Wooledge on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 09:17:50 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  You know, I bet they do care (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jpmassar, blueoasis, aliasalias

      I guarantee you that if it was just "[t]he queers of SF" (and really Scott, was that necessary?) nobody would care. But there is a reason that big businesses like Wells Fargo and Bank of America want to be seen associated with this: money, and lots of it.

      They are not supporters. The could care less about that. They are advertisers. Supporting such things is an advertising buy for them. But why would they want to buy (what they perceive as) negative advertising? They surely saw the association of Manning with this as a roadblock to that money. That's the way they roll.

      What you might call your core of support has to begin by coalescing somewhere, and this would have been a good start. Or, not "start" exactly, because a lot of people obviously already understand. But certainly a good show of support, in an arena that is (finally!) rapidly becoming mainstream, would have been a strong symbol. Like when Biden, and then Obama, finally spoke up. To be sure, this wouldn't have been as powerful as that was, but it would have been a notable step towards raising visibility of what is happening to Manning.

      But no. Sponsors see a roadblock, parade folds, hmmm. Is there a connection? Who guides SF Pride, and how driven are they by advertising dollars? What are their values? How soon till this is just the Macy's Thanksgiving parade?

      •  you're taking it as a article of faith (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jpmassar

        the rescinded invite was done at the behest of corporate sponsors.

        Which of course is speculation, assumption, whatever.

        I watched LGBT military groups launch loud, angry protest campaigns at SF pride. So I know it wasn't only corporate sponsors that were displeased, but a significant number of LGBT people.

        So, I don't suppose anyone can say with certainty who SF pride was attempting to placate.

        If it was our LGBT servicemembers and veterans, then I think they made the right decision.

        "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."
        —Dan Savage

        by Scott Wooledge on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 09:51:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  These fights are incredibly important (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      aliasalias, jpmassar

      I keep talking about this and it frustrates the hell out of me. What we're seeing here is the beginning of the split between the neoliberals who supported marriage equality, the LGBT folks who support a homonormative agenda, and the more radical non-assimilationist section of the community. The first and the second are generally aligned on this issue, which is why Manning got kicked t the curb so hard here.

      Protesting SF gay pride over choosing to not honor Bradley is, in my opinion, real circular firing squad.
      I really can't stand the language around this stuff. It is nothing like a circular firing squad. It's internal divisions with the community and if the concerns of some are going to be summarily dismissed and suppressed then we need to make those concerns heard.

      If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

      by AoT on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 10:33:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I just disagree it's a well-directed action (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jpmassar

        I am all for actiion, I think that should go without saying.

        But it should be smart.

        And my military friends, who I fought side by side for DADT repeal just 24 months ago, consider this a real stick in their eye. I mean they are genuinely insulted, angry, feel disrespected by that initial decision.

        These are people who not only served our country but now are doing an absolutely Hell of a job fighting DOMA on every gay person's behalf.

        And to what end are protesters telling Sue Fulton, who's West Point wedding we all just celebrated, she can just fuck off?

        "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."
        —Dan Savage

        by Scott Wooledge on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 01:07:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So the military gets first say now? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jpmassar, Don midwest

          I mean, I see where you're coming from, and where they're coming from, but this idea that they suddenly get to dictate everything is going to destroy the movement, and the neolibs will continue to push that, have no doubt. It's not like DADT and marriage equality were on the top of everyone's lists of what would most help people in the community. Y'all are in for a rude awakening once ENDA passes. Then the assimilationist agenda will be done and they'll bail and tell the rest of us to kick rocks. Notice how nothing except the assimilationist agenda has been moved forward? You think that's a coincidence?

          If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

          by AoT on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 01:27:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Somethings are dealbreakers for folks (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jpmassar

            Sometimes the can suck it up. If my friends West Point's Sue Fulton or the Josh "booed gay solider" Snyder Hill had told me, "Don't go to Pride if he's honored," I would have personally honored their request. And I'd be a little embarrassed if NYC had picked Manning as GM.

            "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."
            —Dan Savage

            by Scott Wooledge on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 02:58:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Do they get the last say? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AoT, jpmassar

            No, but you ignore the point I'm making that they are allies, working hard, and inviting Manning is kind of the opposite of Hippie punching. It's assimilationist punching.

            Which maybe is ok. Maybe Pride going forward should only be for non-assimilationists. Maybe the community shouldn't try to artificially hold itself together. It's not really a community if there aren't shared community values people agree on?

            "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."
            —Dan Savage

            by Scott Wooledge on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 03:04:12 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The big problem I have is that the people you are (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jpmassar, Don midwest

              talking about aren't a part of the community making this decision and yet they have more sway than locals. That a bunch of conservative gay activists in San Diego can call up SF Pride and force them to drop Manning is outrageous. This is San Francisco, we don't support the military and we aren't about to start just because some more people can be honest about their sexuality.

              Of course, the sad part of all of this to me is that the fact that Manning identifies as trans has now been successfully and completely ignored.

              If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

              by AoT on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 03:13:38 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Sean Sala's in San Diego (0+ / 0-)

                and presumably SF has a number of LGBT servicemembers and vets. That's the nature of organizing. So I don't necessarily agree they're all national.

                Nor do I agree you have to be a "conservative" to think that Bradley is an inappropriate choice for Grand Marshall.

                "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."
                —Dan Savage

                by Scott Wooledge on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 04:59:33 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  But that's so far from SF (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  jpmassar

                  especially culturally. And the reason a lot of these folks are well known is because of the national organization. And there are a number of LGTB servicemembers who are supportive of having Manning be the GM. That's what really gets me about this, that SF Pride would be so idiotic as to not only say Manning wasn't going to be a GM, after they said Manning would be after they said Manning wouldn't after they said Manning would be, but that they would completely vilify Manning in the process. That's why this stinks of out of towners and corporate sponsors. Simply not choosing Manning or vetting the choices would have been different, although I'd still be a bit disappointed if I found out Manning was in the running and got nixed by military folks.

                  Nor do I agree you have to be a "conservative" to think that Bradley is an inappropriate choice for Grand Marshall.
                  I didn't mean to imply that but I can see where you got it from. San Diego is a far, far more conservative town than SF, as I'm sure you know.

                  If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                  by AoT on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 05:20:46 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  And "not supporting the military" (0+ / 0-)

                at least for me is not the same as not supporting my friends in the military. I can have respect for my friend's life and career choices, even as I oppose the war machine.

                In fact, you'd find a lot of them disagree with the aims of the MIC.

                "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."
                —Dan Savage

                by Scott Wooledge on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 05:01:50 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I suppose (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  jpmassar

                  Though I'm rather skeptical that one can oppose the war machine and be a part of it. Especially when you vociferously oppose Manning as well.

                  The only other thing I'd add to the conversation here is that I think I'm most disappointed by virtually everyone's failure to talk about the fact that Manning from everything we know identifies as Trans. The constant use of the male pronoun, which I am totally guilty of, is the biggest part of it all.

                  If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                  by AoT on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 05:25:08 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  See. You keep misrepresenting my position (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    jpmassar, AoT

                    I don't vociferously oppose manning. I said he was an inappropriate choice as a Grand Marshall.

                    For that matter, so am I. I don't vociferously oppose myself.

                    As far at the trans thing, well, I've never heard Manning self-identify a gender. I've heard rumors of it, yes.

                    "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."
                    —Dan Savage

                    by Scott Wooledge on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 08:45:06 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I didn't mean you opposed him (0+ / 0-)

                      I meant that as a reference to the people who did oppose him. Sorry for the confusion.

                      If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                      by AoT on Wed May 01, 2013 at 02:24:56 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  This is my problem with the conversation (0+ / 0-)

                    it's turned into: "You must agree with me that Manning must be Grand Marshall, or your are a unthinking tool of the MIC and a fan of war crimes."

                    Which reminds me a lot of "You must invade Iraq, or you want the terrorists to win."

                    Both false binary choices when there are other positions.

                    "The marriage fight is over when we say it's over, and it's over when we win."
                    —Dan Savage

                    by Scott Wooledge on Wed May 01, 2013 at 06:11:10 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

  •  your first paragraph (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jpmassar, happymisanthropy

    "would NOT be tolerated"

  •  Thanks for the article. (5+ / 0-)

    Never ceases to amaze me how tone deaf an organization can get. Good luck with the new and improved pride parade, one with real pride and honor even! May the banks burn in he!! for all the harm they have done and are continueing to do to homeowners.
    Peace and Blessings!

    United we the people stand, divided we the people fall.

    by Penny GC on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 08:36:05 AM PDT

    •  I'm hoping there will be thousands out there (6+ / 0-)

      in the parade in support of Manning, loud and strong.

      I could be wrong, but I don't think is going to go quietly into the night.

      •  I hope so too! (0+ / 0-)

        We have to be ever vigilant as the powers that be will try to hold us down at every turn. Keep the faith!
        It has been a couple of years since I did the Seattle Pride Parade with my daughters, we would be in the parafe with the company I used to work for. Might have to go as a spectator with them this year! They loved riding in the float and asking the drag queens how they did their make up, keep their long lashes on. It was a really cool experience to watch this drag queen bend down to my 6 year old and try and show her. Just awesome! I have the biggest smile on my face just remembering. Thanks for reminding me and making me smile!

        United we the people stand, divided we the people fall.

        by Penny GC on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 09:44:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Good for Ellsberg (14+ / 0-)

    I think I'll have a diary on the board members of this year's parade and just who they are later in the week. We all know that the LGBT community isn't politically unified (see Bruce Bawer, for instance, not to mention GoProud) but we should know who exactly the people involved in this are.

    Daniel Ellsberg, incidentally, is a fraternity brother of mine and there will be a diary on how I found that out one of these days too. I'm thinking I should stay after NN 13 for the parade if I can afford it.

    -7.75, -8.10; . . . Columbine, Tucson, Aurora, Sandy Hook, Boston (h/t Charles Pierce)

    by Dave in Northridge on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 08:43:12 AM PDT

  •  I was immediately... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jpmassar, AoT, Catte Nappe, MBNYC

    ...torn when I saw Manning had been chosen. I knew it was a polarizing choice. At the root it was a selfish feeling, since I was really looking forward to Pride this year with SO many wins to celebrate and hopefully great decisions handed out by SCOTUS right before.

    My 'Libran' sensibilities are hurting over this... sigh.

    "No more hurting people. Peace." -- Martin Richard (2005-2008)

    by cooper888 on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 10:13:13 AM PDT

  •  Hmm. (0+ / 0-)

    As far as I'm concerned, Bradley Manning is a traitor. Full stop. He swore an oath to defend the Constitution and his country, knowing full well that military service involves obedience to the chain of command and discipline. He violated his oath, in consequence of which enemies of the United States received a tangible benefit. Al Qaeda had a field day with some of the stuff he leaked, and an unknown number of U.S. intelligence assets were exposed. We don't even know the full scope of the damage he did.

    Solitary is a terrible thing and arguably unconstitutional, but was that ever a concern for the Manning Squad when it was just - haha, was, is - 20,000 to 60,000 other people, mainly men of color, being so held, and not a geeky white boy? Because why, he's so cute? Who gives a fuck?

    The answer is no. But that's not the problem here.

    The problem is that Gay Pride SF was drawn, let itself be drawn, into an issue that is not theirs, or ours. Bradley Manning does not address issues like, I don't know, the fact that half of gay men will be HIV+ in this decade, or the epidemic of homelessness among LGBT teens, or ongoing systemic legal discrimination against LGBTs, or the crystal meth epidemic,  the list just goes on. As an aside: corporations want to give us money? Great, make them give more. A lot more, and let's spend it on shit that makes a difference to us.

    But we have one day a year to focus on our community, and here we are, arguing amongst ourselves about a hetero-luxury issue. That's what this is.

    I'm sorry, with love, but no.

    Fuck me, it's a leprechaun.

    by MBNYC on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 11:02:41 AM PDT

    •  Fwiw Manning has not been convicted yet and as (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Don midwest

      was pointed out many times in comments and in the diary in particular is how it was handled.

      without the ants the rainforest dies

      by aliasalias on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 11:31:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And? (0+ / 0-)

        How many trans teens does that assertion give a roof over their head?

        Fuck me, it's a leprechaun.

        by MBNYC on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 11:35:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  how in the world does that relate to my comment? (0+ / 0-)

          without the ants the rainforest dies

          by aliasalias on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 11:39:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  How many trans teens does (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jpmassar

          marriage equality give a roof over their head?

          Or repealing DADT?

          Using that as a bludgeon is just wrong.

          If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

          by AoT on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 11:47:37 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Don't be stupid. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jpmassar

            Or assume that I am, because really, I'm not. What I am is angry.

            The issue here is not Mr. Manning or what I think of him. The question is what the fuck SF Pride was thinking in nominating him in the first place.

            If anyone has any idea just how bad the prospects for Gay America are, it would be them. And what do they do?

            They allow themselves to be co-opted by an outside interest, that's what. Which is generally a problem around the movement and the country. The LGBT rights movement looks successful beyond the dreams of avarice. So of course other leftie groups will try to use that success for their own ends. Because they don't know, or for that matter care, what the reality is.

            Like with, since you bring it up, DADT. A sacrifice for the greater good of the Left. So was DOMA, by the way.

            I'm done with sacrificing. Have a pleasant afternoon, though :-)

            Fuck me, it's a leprechaun.

            by MBNYC on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 12:59:51 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You may be done sacrificing (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jpmassar, Don midwest, nogo postal

              The folks at HRC and the rest of the neolibs aren't. But good luck with the rest of actually helping people when you've kicked the far left of the movement to the curb and the neolibs abandon you, because what the fuck do they care about homeless trans youth. Instead you're attacking a group that wanted to honor the courage of a member of the LGTB community.

              The LGBT rights movement looks successful beyond the dreams of avarice. So of course other leftie groups will try to use that success for their own ends.
              The board of the parade voted for him to be the Grand Marshall, not some other people. And hey fuck poor people or everyone else because you got yours, so go get Blankfein on the board of the biggest rights organization and then tell me about how everyone is just jealous. Or complain about trans youth when the primary national rights organization has a history of undermining protections for trans people, or actively campaigning against them. But no, that doesn't matter at all because someone did something that you didn't like so it's pushing another groups agenda.

              If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

              by AoT on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 01:22:57 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Uh huh. (0+ / 0-)
                And hey fuck poor people or everyone else because you got yours, so go get Blankfein on the board of the biggest rights organization and then tell me about how everyone is just jealous.
                In actual fact, I'm with ACT UP New York. Men and women like me are in the trenches every day. We do the hard work, not you.

                So feel free to vomit your aggro talking points at someone who cares, Chuckles.

                Fuck me, it's a leprechaun.

                by MBNYC on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 02:43:28 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Okay, I'm sorry, that wasn't fair (0+ / 0-)

                  And I shouldn't have attacked you like that. But this shit pisses me off to no fucking end. The SF Pride committee is a bunch of weak willed assholes and this is a direct result of the bullshit neolib agenda. It is a direct result of pursuing DADT and celebrating the fact that more people get to go kill people in foreign lands. Because that's who made this bullshit happen. A bunch of soldiers from San Diego who decided they should get to chose who got to be the Grand Marshall of SF Pride. So now it's fucking Sarah Silverman. What a joke, and absolute joke.

                  This will likely be the last straw for the community here in regards to SF Pride. They are a failure, an absolute failure. People are outraged.

                  If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                  by AoT on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 03:06:15 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  hmm (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AoT, jpmassar

      ": corporations want to give us money? Great, make them give more. A lot more, and let's spend it on shit that makes a difference to us."

      Corporations seldom fund anything without a return..
      It appears gay/lesbian vets are being used as an excuse...

      Does anyone really believe these huge corps do not have influence over the choice of Manning?

      ....I can tell you that telling a Castro queer what they can or cannot say in a sign is a guarantee that those signs will be numerous and bold...

      ashes..ashes..we all fall down

    •  He's a traitor to the extent Ellsberg was. (0+ / 0-)

      No more and no less.

      The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

      by lysias on Wed May 01, 2013 at 01:54:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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