Skip to main content

China's largest meat processor struck a surprise $4.7 billion agreement to acquire Smithfield Foods Inc., a deal that would mark the biggest Chinese takeover of an American company and underscores the Asian nation's renewed determination to scoop up overseas assets.

Shuanghui International Holdings Ltd. agreed to pay $34 a share for Smithfield, the world's largest hog farmer and pork processor. Including debt, the deal values the Smithfield, Va., company at $7.1 billion.

People involved in the deal said Wednesday that the purpose of the sale is to export more of Smithfield's output to feed rising demand in China. Essentially this off shores China's industrial factory farming of hogs to the US.  Just as the US off shored our manufacturing (along with all the pollution it caused) to China; China is now returning the favor. We get the pollution along with increased greenhouse gas emissions, extreme water and land pollution and China gets the product.

       
                 Humane Society Undercover Investigation Smithfield Farms 2012

Amazingly, with this acquisition China hopes to give a boost to its tainted pork industry.

It’s true that, unlike in China, the US hasn’t recently found thousands of dead pigs floating down a river.. Nor have growth additives been found in pork that can cause headaches, nausea and an irregular heartbeat in humans, which happened to Shuanghui in 2011. But American pork industry, of which Smithfield is the biggest sow in the pigpen, is far from squeaky clean. It has had a surfeit of disgusting scandals over the years, and epitomizes exactly the kind of large-scale, unsustainable farming that China would be wise to avoid.

Smithfield may not have dumped thousands of pig carcasses in a river, but over the years it has contaminated the rivers of North Carolina with millions of gallons of pig excrement. It also has a history of using ractopamine, which pumps up muscle content in pigs and reduces the amount of feed they require. (Ractopamine is actually illegal in China, so Smithfield is trying to clean up its act.)

With this move China seems to be taking advantage of lax US environmental (pdf) and labor standards.  Just when we thought things couldn't get any worse for the environment.

UPDATED WITH PETITION: Please sign petition from Food & Water Watch to stop sale of Smithfield to China!  Sign Petition Here!

UPDATED with new policy video on Chinese meat consumption from Brighter Green



Help Us Spread the Word About Climate Change



For those of you on Facebook and Twitter: Please help to spread the word by hitting the FB and Tweet links at the top of this diary and if you have time, join the discussion with comments.  Share such postings with friends, family, co-workers, and acquaintances.

Thanks, as all of this helps build the Climate Change movement as well as introducing critically important ideas about renewable sources of energy.

Please use hashtags #climate, #eco, and #climatechange to tweet all diaries about the environment.



"Green Diary Rescue" is Back!

After a hiatus of over 1 1/2 years, Meteor Blades has revived his excellent series.  As MB explained, this weekly diary is a "round-up with excerpts and links... of the hard work so many Kossacks put into bringing matters of environmental concern to the community... I'll be starting out with some commentary of my own on an issue related to the environment, a word I take in its broadest meaning."

"Green Diary Rescue" will be posted every Saturday at 1:00 pm Pacific Time on the Daily Kos front page.  Be sure to recommend and comment in the diary.  

Fri May 31, 2013 at  6:58 AM PT: The comments are going off on a tangent.  We do not need to expand factory farming. We need to abolish it. This diary is about factory farmings immense contribution to climate change & resource depletion.


Originally posted to Climate Change SOS on Thu May 30, 2013 at 05:33 PM PDT.

Also republished by Meatless Advocates Meetup and Way of Dragon.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (192+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bob Love, Hopeful Skeptic, Shockwave, AoT, nomandates, takatobimasu, mookins, WisePiper, sc kitty, cskendrick, Gooserock, chuckvw, Jason Hackman, chrississippi, arizonablue, Moody Loner, 3goldens, JekyllnHyde, MrSandman, serendipityisabitch, hester, SteveLCo, leu2500, zmom, blueoasis, SouthernLiberalinMD, Burned, Shippo1776, marleycat, Christin, blue jersey mom, gypsytoo, pat bunny, WheninRome, jlms qkw, Lujane, Simplify, JeffW, Involuntary Exile, Debs2, US Blues, on the cusp, where4art, BusyinCA, vahana, offred, rebel ga, Siri, JayDean, gchaucer2, Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse, wayoutinthestix, importer, Just Bob, barkingcat, Yellow Canary, zerelda, Lily O Lady, Ditch Mitch KY, corvo, 4Freedom, GAS, terabytes, smiley7, MufsMom, tiggers thotful spot, JesseCW, vivian darkbloom, randallt, profundo, crose, bleeding blue, CA Nana, Cat Servant, AZ Sphinx Moth, yet another liberal, mystique mist, Alumbrados, Gordon20024, kevinpdx, Kentucky Kid, maggiejean, too many people, camlbacker, StrayCat, DanC, Williston Barrett, Ignacio Magaloni, Sassy, peptabysmal, jazzizbest, Chaddiwicker, greengemini, Troubadour, fiddlingnero, NBBooks, RUNDOWN, turn blue, Puddytat, Patango, Hillbilly Dem, deepeco, MJB, KenBee, anodnhajo, devis1, Matt Z, Ekaterin, riverlover, Ocelopotamus, LaFeminista, citisven, susakinovember, carpunder, gulfgal98, Steven D, Art Tric, run around, Shelley99, SteelerGrrl, mudslide, eeff, DRo, emmasnacker, maryabein, renaissance grrrl, FrY10cK, One Pissed Off Liberal, Rosaura, gramofsam1, ksp, Anthony Page aka SecondComing, teabaggerssuckbalz, Agathena, flowerfarmer, jasan, Sylv, SharonColeman, rchipevans, Cronesense, greenbastard, TexDem, Eowyn9, Gowrie Gal, SeaTurtle, pvasileff, Darryl House, markthshark, JDWolverton, Wino, Actbriniel, Glen The Plumber, cactusgal, buckstop, sceptical observer, Dr Erich Bloodaxe RN, PeterHug, shaharazade, Radiowalla, Aquarius40, Jim R, GeorgeXVIII, elwior, LaughingPlanet, stevie avebury, John Crapper, Bernie68, JayBat, Mollywog, Minnesota Deb, mimi, ichibon, Overseas, StateofEuphoria, Marihilda, Statusquomustgo, ChemBob, SanFernandoValleyMom, thomask, barbwires, JBL55, Renee, northerntier, MJ via Chicago, slowbutsure, hyperstation, antirove, 1BQ, rapala, pixxer, martinjedlicka, samddobermann

    Macca's Meatless Monday

    by VL Baker on Thu May 30, 2013 at 05:33:23 PM PDT

  •  I heard about this yesterday... and was horrified (51+ / 0-)

    The person doing the radio story was talking about how much the Chinese love pork, with not a mention of the environmental impacts of this industry nor the suffering of millions of animal (of course, nobody wants to consider that).

    Thanks for writing the diary, bbif!

    "The death penalty is never about the criminal. They've already done their worst. The question is always "will we join them"?" - jlynne

    by Hopeful Skeptic on Thu May 30, 2013 at 05:41:05 PM PDT

    •  i agree, horrifying Hopeful. deal has to be (22+ / 0-)

      approved but it's not looking very good

      Macca's Meatless Monday

      by VL Baker on Thu May 30, 2013 at 05:49:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  pigs are as intelligent and affectionate (39+ / 0-)

        As German shepherds...if not more.
        I sponsor two that fell off a truck and were rescued.
        We visited them....they love having their stomachs rubbed and are so gentle.
        This breaks my heart and I feel overwhelmed lately with cruelty and callousness of people.
        But what hurts more is the shrugs and who cares and I love me my bacon jokes.
        From progressives.
        I want to make them spend a week in a damn factory farm to hear the terror and screams and pain and suffering.
        A friend of mine keeps going  on about hunters while she chows down on every kind of meat she can buy from the grocery store.
        I mean she goes off on a hypocritical rant like she's better.
        I finally told her I can't take listening to her anymore.
        That she not better. That at least those animals had a decent life..while she goes on and on about how she Dows not want to know how the sausage is made.
        Everyone should know.

        Sorry...sorry...this just was the crap icing on a long crappy piece of crap day.

        We consume the carcasses of creatures of like appetites, passions and organs with our own, and fill the slaughterhouses daily with screams of pain and fear. Robert Louis Stevenson

        by Christin on Thu May 30, 2013 at 06:25:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Why does the deal "have to" be approved? (7+ / 0-)

        It sounds like it needs a thorough study by the federal government to see if it violates the Sherman Anti-Trust Act, among other things.  

        No, there's no law anywhere that says this sale "has to" be approved.  DOJ is not a rubber stamp on these things.

        "If you can't take their money, eat their food, drink their booze and then vote against them, you have no business being up there."

        by Betty Pinson on Thu May 30, 2013 at 06:51:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  there's a chance it won't and there may be (21+ / 0-)

          other bids according to Reuters

          Like similar foreign transactions, the Smithfield deal will face the scrutiny of the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States, or CFIUS, a government panel that assesses national security risks.

          And at least one member of Congress said the deal raised alarms about food safety, noting Shuanghui was forced to recall tainted pork in the past.

          "I have deep doubts about whether this merger best serves American consumers and urge federal regulators to put their concerns first," U.S. Representative Rose DeLauro, a Democrat from Connecticut, said in a statement.

          .....

          The CFIUS review process comes at a time of sour relations between the United States and China over cross-border deals. In the latest irritant, a $20.1 billion bid by Japan's SoftBank Corp to control U.S. wireless carrier Sprint Nextel Corp has fanned fears of Chinese cyber-attacks against the United States.

          http://www.reuters.com/...

          Macca's Meatless Monday

          by VL Baker on Thu May 30, 2013 at 06:59:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think DOJ has a role, too (4+ / 0-)

            They're always supposed to review mergers of this size.

            "If you can't take their money, eat their food, drink their booze and then vote against them, you have no business being in DC."

            by Betty Pinson on Thu May 30, 2013 at 07:08:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  That's pretty weak (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Bronx59, melfunction

            national security?  

            Certainly recalling tainted meat is an issue, but presumably, the pork produced in the U.S. would fall under U.S. law, and it's not like Shaunghui is unique in that regard.  There can't be one set of laws for "China" and another for anybody else.

            And of course not every merger threatens to increase prices in domestic markets, especially where the buyer doesn't already compete.  It's possible that now Shaunghui wouldn't produce pork for sale to the U.S. by virtue of the merger, but could they anyway?  

            As i said, make it less attractive to run a factory farm to begin with, and the problems associated with the merger take care of themselves.  If China's buying lousy meat, seems like China's problem.

            Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

            by Loge on Fri May 31, 2013 at 08:20:09 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  So if another country out bids China (4+ / 0-)

            Will you publish another sensational diary and urge people to sign petitions to block it too?

            Or is it just Chinese ownership you find objectionable?

            Serious questions, not rhetorical. I find this diary very disturbing on so many levels.

            I understand and respect that you a vegetarian and consistently diary on the subject urging people to no eat meat, but your frame here viv a vis "China" and "Chinese" borders on the Xenophobic and is promoting some inaccurate sensationalized stereotypes I find extremely offensive.

            If you check the facts, you would find Americans eat more than twice the amount of meat per capita that Chinese do so does that make them twice as bad?

            Seriously disappointed to read this sensationalized nonsense when you could approach it in a factual and fair way and still make the case to not eat meat.

            400ppm : what about my daughter's future?

            by koNko on Fri May 31, 2013 at 08:36:41 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  this is about the expansion of factory farms and (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Hopeful Skeptic, GAladybug

              their immense contribution to climate change and resource depletion.  Anyone trying to expand factory farms will get my wrath.  yes, US consumption of meat is  greatest in world and that is why I have been working to educate for less consumption.  We should be trying to abolish industrialized meat production it's totally unsustainable for the future.

              Macca's Meatless Monday

              by VL Baker on Fri May 31, 2013 at 08:43:54 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  No, US is No. 2. Luxembourg is No.1 (0+ / 0-)

                And has been for more than a decade. Why that is I don't know, perhaps it's wealth and food culture.

                400ppm : what about my daughter's future?

                by koNko on Fri May 31, 2013 at 12:46:06 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  it's about volume not per capita consumption n/t (0+ / 0-)

                  Macca's Meatless Monday

                  by VL Baker on Fri May 31, 2013 at 01:02:04 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Every study I've read (0+ / 0-)

                    Uses per capita consumption as the basis of comparison for obvious reasons of rational standardization, including the stats I and others here have linked in comments here.

                    Do you not think per capita values are a reasonable and fair basis of comparison? And if not, can you explain why?

                    Obviously totals in aggregate matter, but we don't need to give a pass to wealthy, high consuming countries (or social groups for that matter) simply because they are smaller.

                    By that reasoning, we should give the 1% of the world a pass because there are so few of them.

                    400ppm : what about my daughter's future?

                    by koNko on Sat Jun 01, 2013 at 10:10:36 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Dr. Fu Manchu, anyone? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              koNko

              Agree completely. There's a disturbing element of Yellow Peril-ism inherent in this diary.

              Reminds me of the anti-Japanese hysteria from 1975-1990 when cash-heavy Japanese companies started purchasing (usually over-priced) American assets. Remember when one holding company bought Rockefeller Center? ZOMG!!111 What was not mentioned in all that thinly-veiled racist hysteria was that Japan was #3 in acquiring US assets -- behind the UK and the Netherlands. Please note the lack of anti-UK or anti-Dutch frenzy.

              When it comes to Yellow Peril hysteria in the US the pendulum seems to swing between China and Japan. With the implosion of the Japanese economy in about 1990, and the rise of China, the  latter now wears the dubious crown of Yellow Peril.

              History has taught me a valuable lesson: Genghis Khan but Immanuel Kant.

              by Metro99 on Fri May 31, 2013 at 09:32:43 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Actually it is, but it's nice to think (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JesseCW, AoT, shaharazade

          that it isn't.

          If the deal is refused, then only for political-hegemonic reasons.

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Thu May 30, 2013 at 07:36:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Like Pork couldn't get worse. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        4Freedom, randallt, beach babe in fl

        Thanks Beach Babe. Rec'd, tipped and liked.

        I didn't know about smithfield farms. I tried their keilbasey first time a few weeks ago. Didn't like it. Never had anything else they make.

        I only like Oscar Mayer bacon. Nathan's hot dogs. I don't eat any meat that's not a good brand name.

        I have a new/updated, diary I know you'll all like. Especially beach goers.

        Never Swim When There's No Life Guard And Never Swim Alone!

        Brought To You By That Crazed Sociologist/Media Fanatic rebel ga Be The Change You Want To See In The World! Gandhi

        by rebel ga on Thu May 30, 2013 at 07:06:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Smithfield sugar cured ham was the best (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Loge, rebel ga

          back in the '60s.

          I have no idea what their products are like today.

          Others have simply gotten old. I prefer to think I've been tempered by time.

          by Just Bob on Thu May 30, 2013 at 07:19:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  best just not to eat the crap. you don't need (9+ / 0-)

            to eat meat to live.  in fact, it's unhealthy and is one of the greatest contributors to greenhouse gases and climate change

            Macca's Meatless Monday

            by VL Baker on Thu May 30, 2013 at 07:26:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I know that at some level... (15+ / 0-)

              but I would not survive without meat. My culinary skills are limited. My dietary skills (habits?) are even worse.

              But take heart, I'm old and feeble. I won't be around much longer. It's good to know I'll leave the world a better place by dying. In the interim, please cut me some slack.

              Now then, I know I have some carrots sticks and celery around here somewhere and I promise to use hummus in place of veggie dip.

              Others have simply gotten old. I prefer to think I've been tempered by time.

              by Just Bob on Thu May 30, 2013 at 07:36:47 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  ex·qui·site -eom (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                claude

                47 is the new 51!

                by nickrud on Thu May 30, 2013 at 09:31:25 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Oddly defensive (0+ / 0-)

                There's nothing in bbif's comment that was attacking you. What's with the bizarre response?

                "If the machine of government is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law." - Henry David Thoreau

                by Jason Hackman on Thu May 30, 2013 at 09:54:48 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  it's humor (8+ / 0-)

                  for the aged.

                  47 is the new 51!

                  by nickrud on Thu May 30, 2013 at 10:07:52 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Yes it is. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    nickrud

                    I've reached that awkward age where the political right wants me to die so I stop drawing SS and Medicare.

                    The political left wants me to die because of my eating habits.

                    Woe is me!

                    Others have simply gotten old. I prefer to think I've been tempered by time.

                    by Just Bob on Fri May 31, 2013 at 12:30:18 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Defensive? (0+ / 0-)

                  Everything I said is true whether you think it was defensive or not.

                  I had thin sliced ribeye for supper. If you put garlic powder and freshly ground pepper on one slice and top that with a second slice, it makes less of a mess to cleanup on George Foreman's Lean Mean Fat Reducing Grilling Machine. Put the ribeye on sandwich rounds with a thinly sliced onion round. Nothing else is required.

                  Try it. You'll like it!

                  Others have simply gotten old. I prefer to think I've been tempered by time.

                  by Just Bob on Fri May 31, 2013 at 12:27:14 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I did like it at one time. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    rebel ga

                    But then I found out the waste and suffering it causes and couldn't enjoy it in good conscience. We all have our weaknesses.

                    "If the machine of government is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law." - Henry David Thoreau

                    by Jason Hackman on Fri May 31, 2013 at 01:27:31 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  We are omnivores. We have incisors, canines and (0+ / 0-)

                      molars.

                      It's all part of the cycle of life. For one thing to live another must die, be it animal or vegetable. That doesn't offend me. People who are too involved in others' lives and excessively judgmental offends me, but as you say, "We all have our weaknesses."

                      Others have simply gotten old. I prefer to think I've been tempered by time.

                      by Just Bob on Fri May 31, 2013 at 02:02:23 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  There's this thing called evolution (0+ / 0-)

                        all the new kids are talking about it. Goes something like this. Our choices and behavior determine our evolution going forward. We are not biologically programmed to act a particular way. We learn, grow, and adapt. Funny how we can land on the moon, fly jets eight times the speed of sound, and build submarines that take us a mile under the sea, yet when it comes to eating meat, people still want to insist that we're no better than animals.

                        Nobody here has told you how you should live your life, but that doesn't seem to stop you from claiming that people are. And you keep on doing it. Pretending people are attacking you for your choices. What's up with that?

                        "If the machine of government is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law." - Henry David Thoreau

                        by Jason Hackman on Fri May 31, 2013 at 11:46:28 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

              •  So JustBob, what you're saying is that you'll (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Sylv, Loge, science nerd

                become a vegetarian when bacon starts being grown on trees? I understand! I've cut down a lot on my intake of meats but will never give them up completely. I don't judge anyones diet because it's not my concern or business to do so.

                Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

                by teabaggerssuckbalz on Fri May 31, 2013 at 05:33:26 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  That's a good compromise (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  shaharazade

                  eat less of it (stick to one serving per day is my guideline) and pay attention to how it's raised.  Simply being "organic" isn't sufficient -- look at where it's grown relative to you, and for meats, a lot will label antibiotic and hormone free, but if they specify how it's fed and growing conditions, that's key too.  

                  They can feed them "organic" feed that's heavily processed and kept in pens, and these days big conglomerates will put out an "organic" line that doesn't help small farmers and just costs more.  

                  Farmers markets are a good option, but expensive.  But at least it hasn't been packed, frozen, warehoused, and shipped.  

                  Unfortunately, because of the way the policy worked, this stuff is a bit of a luxury, in terms of the cost of the food and the energy to be sufficiently informed.  I enjoy the cooking process, though, so I'm not giving it up.

                  Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

                  by Loge on Fri May 31, 2013 at 08:28:48 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Well you do unless you want to be taking vitamin (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JesseCW, Cassandra Waites, skohayes

              B supplements.  I know alot of vegans say that you don't need to supplement and even that low vitamin B levels in your blood aren't harmful (in other words, ignore the lies of the mainstream medical establishment) so don't bother with even getting tested because the science isn't proven but that's just as much bull as the anti-vaxxers.

              You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

              by Throw The Bums Out on Thu May 30, 2013 at 07:43:06 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  meh, you end up eating meat (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                shaharazade

                No matter what insects will always get in there. I've been vegan for 2 years now and vegetarian for about ten and I've seen no negative effects.

                If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                by AoT on Fri May 31, 2013 at 12:03:53 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  It can take a decade or more (8+ / 0-)

                  for chronic B12 deficiency to become symptomatic; your body has several years' worth of stored B12, and a diet that's only mildly-deficient (typical vegetarian diet) can stretch the reserves for quite a long time.

                  It takes several more years before the symptoms become severe enough and distinct enough to point to a diagnosis. By that point, some of the early neurological damage is likely permanent.

                  B12 deficiency is no joke. I was recently diagnosed with pernicious anemia (B12 deficiency due to an autoimmune condition) and realized that it was the root of the last ~6 years' worth of vague neurological, digestive, and psychiatric problems. But no doctor ever made the connection until my blood tests came back funny, because early pernicious anemia looks almost exactly like chronic fatigue, IBS, or depression.

                  You do not want to go through what I've been going through. A vegan diet will have inadequate B12, no matter how many bugs you think you're eating, unless you're diligent about eating fortified foods regularly. Please check your diet, and talk to a doctor or nutritionist if what you're eating is coming up short.

                  "Let’s just move on, treat everybody with firmness, fairness, dignity, compassion and respect. Let’s be Marines." - Sgt. Maj Michael Barrett on DADT repeal

                  by kyril on Fri May 31, 2013 at 03:42:32 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  We've been eating meat as far back as we can (13+ / 0-)

              trace our fossil lineage.  Back to when we had tails.

              If you have moral reasons for not wanting to eat it, and believe that eating a less than perfectly healthy diet is worth it out of ethical consideration, I can kind of get that.

              I mean, I know how many animals get killed when fields are tilled to plant the crops we eat, but hey - I do at some level get the "I don't want to eat dead flesh" thing.

              But it's just a pants load to pretend that grass fed beef from near your home is somehow, all things being equal, a worse choice in terms of carbon impact than some vegetables trucked from Imperial County to New York in two days at 5.4 mpg.

              "The thing about smart motherfuckers is that they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers." Robert Kirkman

              by JesseCW on Thu May 30, 2013 at 08:14:25 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Well, as far as our forebearers' diets are (8+ / 0-)

                concerned, they were lucky to have a successful hunt more than once a week; they certainly didnt have sausage at breakfast, turkey sandwich for lunch and a  steak(chicken, pork) for dinner almost every night.

                Now you said not eating animal based foods are a 'less than perfectly healthy diet'.  Perhaps you should explain your reasoning to:

                Rich Roll, top triathlete-vegan
                Brendan Brazier-top triathlete-vegan

                Holly Biscay, top triathlete-vegan

                Although Biscay worried that her vegan lifestyle and four-to-six-hour-a-day training regimen would leave her feeling hungry constantly, it actually had the opposite effect. "It made me a lighter, faster and stronger athlete," she said. Last year, she placed second in the Ultraman World Championships -- that's a 6.2-mile swim, 261.4-mile bike ride, and 52.4-mile run -- in Hawaii, with the fastest women's course debut in history. She chatted with espnW about her rules for fueling up.
                I could go on with way too many examples of very healthy people who are vegans or vegetarians, but it is easy to check that out if you were so inclined.

                Yes, perhaps if everyone ate local, non factory farmed beef
                it would come closer to a carbon footprint of the traveling measurment of vegetables from a long distance, but you are still doubling the carbon footprint by eating the local beef-the cow needs food as well.

                •  Fact is, feeding humans is environmentally (5+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  JesseCW, claude, melfunction, Just Bob, koNko

                  destructive. The closest method of food production to the perfect eco-friendly scenario is the free-ranging animal model.

                  But then, the perfect human carrying capacity for earth is probably around 1 -2 billion.

                  Physics is bulls**t. Don't let them fool you. Fire IS magic.
                  (Facts brought to you by the Party of the Future - the GOP)

                  by Pescadero Bill on Fri May 31, 2013 at 07:30:14 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  The lowest possible impact would be hunting (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    melfunction, koNko

                    a variety of game and fish, for about 30% of our total caloric intake, and foraging the rest.

                    The way we lived for, oh, about 3 million years.  Ok, the fish thing only got big starting 150k years ago.

                    "The thing about smart motherfuckers is that they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers." Robert Kirkman

                    by JesseCW on Fri May 31, 2013 at 10:27:49 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  another fact: (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    melfunction, koNko

                    most life-forms eat or otherwise exploit other life-forms, both animal and vegetable.  Some life-forms die (involuntarily) that others may live.  Some only have to give up their offspring.

                    It is certainly convenient for humans that they can't hear or feel plants'  pains or screams.

                    don't always believe what you think

                    by claude on Fri May 31, 2013 at 10:35:45 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  It's really not useful to read vegan religious (0+ / 0-)

                  texts instead of studying anthropology.

                  Very, very few top athletes are vegans.  You know this.  

                  "The thing about smart motherfuckers is that they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers." Robert Kirkman

                  by JesseCW on Fri May 31, 2013 at 10:24:57 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I am not sure what you mean by (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    shaharazade, Jason Hackman, dinazina

                    'read vegan religious texts', are we having a healthy discussion or trying to get in cheap zingers.  If you are implying  my blockquote came from some vegan religious text I didnt know ESPN had switched gears.

                    Of course I know not many top athletes are vegan or vegetarian, but that wasnt the question at hand-you intimated fairly clearly that a vegan or vegetarian diet was not a healthy way to go and I was just countering that statement with examples of people who push their bodies physically, dont eat meat and are healthy and succesful, that's all.

                    •  People get very defensive about this topic (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      zmom

                      I remember a little more than a year ago if anyone suggested becoming vegetarian I would become irritated and sigh in frustration, saying things like "People eat meat. It's what we do. Might as well be asking me not to breathe (idiot)." It's odd how such a strong bias would prevent you from doing something so simple as looking at objective facts. You're a vegan so you must be a brainwashed cultist.

                      "If the machine of government is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law." - Henry David Thoreau

                      by Jason Hackman on Fri May 31, 2013 at 01:52:35 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

              •  If grassfed beef were more prevalent (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                beach babe in fl, shaharazade

                you'd have an argument there, but due to fact that it isn't and is too expensive to eat consistently when you can find it the only impact it makes is the good feeling it gives to its consumers. It's a way to deflect any argument that will require having to substantially make any lifestyle changes. Like trading an SUV in for hybrid SUV.

                "If the machine of government is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law." - Henry David Thoreau

                by Jason Hackman on Thu May 30, 2013 at 10:53:54 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  The myth of "good" meat (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  beach babe in fl, Jason Hackman

                  Is based around the idea that everyone's meat consumption could be fed by sustainable meat production. It can't be. Sustainable meat production has relatively low prices. Because there is factory farmed meat available the prices of all meat is driven down. If we only had sustainable meat on the market only the rich would be eating it due to the price.

                  If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                  by AoT on Fri May 31, 2013 at 12:10:53 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Once China starts buying up all the factory meat (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    AoT, shaharazade

                    Americans are going to have to pay a lot more for the meat they can find.

                    That will be from local, small production sources.

                    Americans will just have to get used to eating less meat and paying a lot more for it. And it's about time.

                    Physics is bulls**t. Don't let them fool you. Fire IS magic.
                    (Facts brought to you by the Party of the Future - the GOP)

                    by Pescadero Bill on Fri May 31, 2013 at 07:33:44 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  We need to phase out all meat production (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      shaharazade

                      It's incredibly polluting and unless we stop factory farming it is completely unsustainable. I imagine we'll be able to have a go at that if all those polluting farms aren't feeding Americans.

                      If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                      by AoT on Fri May 31, 2013 at 08:50:06 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  Current meat consumption levels? No. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    shaharazade

                    "The thing about smart motherfuckers is that they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers." Robert Kirkman

                    by JesseCW on Fri May 31, 2013 at 10:28:28 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Have not eaten meat since 89 (10+ / 0-)

              and then went vegan 5 yrs ago. Feel great and eat well! I know it is not for everyone and I don't try to pressure others but it was a decision based on morality for me rather than health. Just love animals and couldn't square eating them or knowing the misery they lived in on those factory farms

              "Another world is possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." Arundhati Roy

              by jazzizbest on Thu May 30, 2013 at 09:58:06 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Smithfield was the Cadillac of ham brands (12+ / 0-)

          50 years ago.

          OTOH: My grampa would not even recognize a ham today. Where's the damn FAT???

          (He wouldn't recognize a chicken today either.)

          Too late for the simple life, too early for android love slaves - Savio

          by Clem Yeobright on Thu May 30, 2013 at 07:35:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  i am not sure the basis for not approving the deal (0+ / 0-)

        except to change U.S. law so that it's less attractive to produce pork so cheaply, from the point of view of the producer.  (Their costs are usually externalized.)

        I didn't see a petition re the specific sale on the website, but this concession in the press release -- "U.S. consumers will likely not take notice of the change" -- suggests antitrust law won't do the trick, and agriculture policy as it currently exists is highly geared towards promoting exports, so the idea of selling to China would seem to be a feature, as far as existing law is concerned.   Ironically, an antitrust injury might not be so bad, ecologically -- consisting as it would of higher prices per lower output.  

        Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

        by Loge on Fri May 31, 2013 at 08:13:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  It's considered akin to a terrorist act now to (4+ / 0-)

      video the inside of a meat processing plant.

      A lot of people need to see it. It would make a difference for some. For others, the Big Mac and the "Honey I ate the bones!" KFC commercials trump everything.

      Reaganomics noun pl: belief that government is bad, that it can increase revenue by decreasing revenue, and unregulated capitalism can provide unlimited goods for unlimited people on a planet with finite resources.

      by FrY10cK on Fri May 31, 2013 at 04:50:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Did you bother to check the facts? (4+ / 0-)

      Here is some recent data (2007) on per capita meat consumption.

      Do you notice the relative positions of the USA (No. 2) and China (not on the chart as it stops at No. 18 but current consumption is <50kg, less than half of USA).

      So I have to ask, is there something really horrible and disgusting and shocking about Chinese eating meat verses Americans or anyone else?

      I can tell you how much Chinese love pork. When we eat it in our house we share about 200g (about 7oz) between 5 people; my experience in US is that would be a portion for one person.

      And our behavior is shocking?

      400ppm : what about my daughter's future?

      by koNko on Fri May 31, 2013 at 08:29:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think you mis-read my comment (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        beach babe in fl

        What is horrifying is that the American meat-heavy diet seems to be seeping into other countries.  So much so that China is literally buying American factory farms to feed their demand.

        I find factory farming and the consumption of factory farmed meat horrifying, not matter who does it.  

        My reaction was to the expansion of factory farming... With a decline in American demand, the farmers are not scaling back, but rather looking for international investment to continue their horrible practices.  

        And I was horrified that the person who did the "news" story on the radio made not a single mention of all the negative aspects of the continuation/expansion of factory farming.

        Hope that makes it more clear... I hold no animus towards the Chinese, so please don't ascribe motives to me based on a single sentence in a single comment.

        "The death penalty is never about the criminal. They've already done their worst. The question is always "will we join them"?" - jlynne

        by Hopeful Skeptic on Fri May 31, 2013 at 12:03:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  OK (0+ / 0-)

          Meat consumption is rising in most developing countries with China just above the global median but far below the developed nation median.

          In fact, I'm not at all keen on factory farming nor are most Chinese consumers; in fact, declining food quality and safety is a major social concern and organic food production also on the rise (but a middle class luxury).

          I'm sorry if I mis-interpreted your own remarks.

          But I do think there is an element of the pot calling the kettle black here and the usual fear-mongering in the petition the diarist links, which begins by baiting ....

          What happens when a Chinese company owns America's biggest pork supplier?

          Let's not find out.

          TAKE ACION.

          Ironically, that "Made in China?" bacon would more likely be "Made in USA" ham shipped to China (I thought that was the diarist's complaint not the opposite).

          Then ...

          Stop the Chinese Buyout of Smithfield!

          Smithfield, the largest U.S. pork producer is being bought out by Shuanghui International, China's largest meat processing company. This could threaten U.S. national security and food security, raising prices for U.S. consumers, putting U.S. farmers at a disadvantage, and creating new food safety risks.

          Ask your members of Congress to block this purchase, and investigate the risks of a foreign company buying out American food companies.

          Please take action below and we'll deliver your signature and additional message directly to your members of Congress.

          Well, considering the crap in cured meat, it could be creating new food safety risks for some people, particularly those Chinese currently denied the pork they madly crave.

          400ppm : what about my daughter's future?

          by koNko on Fri May 31, 2013 at 01:19:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  China has so much cash it can and is buying... (23+ / 0-)

    ...everything around the world not just here.

    The XXI century may belong to them.

    Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action.

    by Shockwave on Thu May 30, 2013 at 05:42:21 PM PDT

  •  The yellow peril. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AoT, kyril, koNko, Metro99, melfunction

    Without China there would be no pork industry of course.

    "It is, it seems, politically impossible to organize expenditure on the scale necessary to prove my case -- except in war conditions."--JM Keynes, 1940

    by randomfacts on Thu May 30, 2013 at 05:52:07 PM PDT

    •  US has reduced meat consumption so this seems (15+ / 0-)

      to be the answer for factory farms.  Stunningly insane to allow this.

      Macca's Meatless Monday

      by VL Baker on Thu May 30, 2013 at 06:00:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Worldwide meat consumption per capita (11+ / 0-)

        http://chartsbin.com/...

        The US is way ahead, as it has always been. If this was an acquisition from any country other than China it wouldn't be an issue. Americans have an irrational loathing and fear of China - a country which is not close to overtaking America (but Americans will never believe that). It was the same with Japan in the 1980's. When a European country does well (like Germany or Sweden) it's celebrated. Heck, when Daimler and then Fiat purchased one of the Detroit Big Three, when a German company was going to buy the New York Stock Exchange, there was not a peep. But if it were a Chinese or Japanese company it would be banned. What's at work here, of course, is racism. The yellow peril. Of course no one of you will ever acknowledge it, because to acknowledge it would be to challenge it, and only certain kinds of racism are prohibited at Daily Kos.

        "It is, it seems, politically impossible to organize expenditure on the scale necessary to prove my case -- except in war conditions."--JM Keynes, 1940

        by randomfacts on Thu May 30, 2013 at 09:11:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  racism/ethnocentrism (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          HamdenRice, Kickemout, koNko, FG, Mikey

          is a bane in every political group

          Americans have an irrational loathing and fear of China
          is all too true.

          47 is the new 51!

          by nickrud on Thu May 30, 2013 at 09:38:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Americans are addicted (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            beach babe in fl, koNko

            to Fear, usually it's of the 'other' be it terrist's who are going to kill yer family or Republicans or anybody who they believe threatens or is 'overtaking' them culturally or nationally. Winning the 'race to the top'  beating the Chinese, Russians or any other nation is just insane when we are killing the planet and ordinary people can't even make a decent living. Misplaced fear. I don't fear the Chinese it's the takeover of our government and the world by immoral out of control multinational corporations that are making their profit's by killing the planet and making ordinary people's lives a nightmare.  FDR was right about fear.    

        •  So true, so puzzling, so sad (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          koNko

          Most Americans don't get China, it's history or it's geopolitical position. So they fear it and project on it what they think the US would do. The US seeks to project power. China is the middle kingdom.

        •  The Chinese co. may want Smithfield's expertise (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Bronx59, koNko

          in healthier production of pork.

          The quality of life of sows in the Smithfield factory pens is horrid, but Smithfield has managed to avoid the disease problems we have seen this past year in China.

          I regularly drive past pig farms in eastern NC. You can smell them on cool nights at the last rest area on I-40 as you drive towards Wilmington.

          I doubt that they have plans to ship large quantities of pork from NC to China. That would be costly. It's more likely they want access to the production and meat processing methods Smithfield has developed for use in China.

          Some good might come of this if the Chinese company can reduce diseases in hogs/pigs in China.

          I appreciate Beachbabe's concerns about animal welfare, but disease prevention is paramount.

          look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

          by FishOutofWater on Fri May 31, 2013 at 06:24:22 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  it's about the environment and expansion of (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            FishOutofWater, shaharazade

            factory farms which are major contribution to climate change and resource depletion

            Macca's Meatless Monday

            by VL Baker on Fri May 31, 2013 at 06:43:30 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Meat production is inherently consumptive (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              shaharazade, northerntier, koNko

              I'm very aware of the environmental impacts. Direct consumption of nutrients from vegetarian sources requires far less land and resources that meat.

              Disease was the issue I addressed above.

              I think it's unfortunate that the issue of racism was dragged into this because I don't think it's fair to you.

              look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

              by FishOutofWater on Fri May 31, 2013 at 07:12:43 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Imports are considered safe by Chinese, who go (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Aquarius40

            a long way to get them.  Anecdotes abound: obtaining visas to Hong Kong just to buy baby formula from Australia, elites owning farms just to monitor the safety of their own food.  I suspect it's easier to just buy a US company and import than try to convince people that a Chinese pork company is safe.

            So the lesson for us is, make food safe as a selling point, if nothing else.  

            "We're now in one of those periods when the reality of intense pressure on the middle class diverges from long-held assumptions of how the American bargain should work" --James Fallows

            by Inland on Fri May 31, 2013 at 07:28:10 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  From 1 year old (0+ / 0-)

              My daughter was raised on formula from Japan and Netherlands, usually bought on my monthly trips to Japan or HK, taking back 6 2kg tins, sharing some with other families.

              Recently Hong Kong enacted a law restricting mainland visitors from taking more than 2 tins through customs to ease shortages (in Hong Kong).

              Definitely those who can afford it increasingly buy organic produce and some imported produce and meat.

              But China also has quite the opposite: some farms producing very high quality produce and meat using traditional farming and selling at a premium. Some markets even carry wild black boor, which is a pork lover's dream (pretty popular in Germany and Austria) from Sichuan province where they have take stock from forrest to breed them free-range.

              400ppm : what about my daughter's future?

              by koNko on Fri May 31, 2013 at 01:46:52 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  I think some of both (0+ / 0-)

            Actually, China is a net importer of pork and it is mostly cured meat from companies such as Hormel (USA) and Itoh Brand ham and tonkatsu (Japan) which are big brands.

            So I'd expect them to export to China as well as adopt some technology.

            400ppm : what about my daughter's future?

            by koNko on Fri May 31, 2013 at 01:37:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  its not totally racism, there are so many other .. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          shaharazade, Minnesota Deb

          factors that it is totally dishonest to say that it is racism.  hell, my Chinese wife is incredibly wary of the china government.  the chinese government is very antagonistic to its neighbors and increasingly to us.  the chinese people on the other hand are very different, at least the ones that I live with here in the triangle in NC.  

          many people are wary of the chinese and many people are wary of foreigners owning such a large piece of the american food supply.  i don't want the deal to go down either for many other reasons, which basically boils down to my plain distaste for factory farms.

          btw, the ceo of smithfield said they sale the overwhelming majority of their pork to japan, it was their single biggest customer!

          please, reconsider throwing around the accusation of racism so casually, there are other reasons and motivations for people in this world to dislike things other than racism.

        •  it's about the environment. we do NOT need to (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          FishOutofWater, shaharazade

          expand factory farming. We need to abolish it!

          Macca's Meatless Monday

          by VL Baker on Fri May 31, 2013 at 06:41:35 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Really? Racism is the best you can come up with? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          beach babe in fl, Minnesota Deb

          A lot of Americans are concerned at the loss of US jobs and wealth to other nations.  They would object to this kind of sale regardless of which nation was purchasing it.

          Surely those who support vulture capitalism and starvation wages can come up with something more original than charging opponents with racism.  Really?  

          "If you can't take their money, eat their food, drink their booze and then vote against them, you have no business being in DC."

          by Betty Pinson on Fri May 31, 2013 at 07:12:16 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  any evidence (0+ / 0-)

        for reduced meat consumption in US? I don't see it anywhere, except for in diaries like these. Vegetarians are a very tiny percentage of US population.

    •  "yellow peril" (5+ / 0-)

      really?  any other words you could use?  

      Ted Kennedy: “The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die…”

      by jlms qkw on Thu May 30, 2013 at 06:27:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Do you truly not grok? (4+ / 0-)

        The OP was mocking an approach that mimics a Hearst paper from 1908.

        "The thing about smart motherfuckers is that they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers." Robert Kirkman

        by JesseCW on Thu May 30, 2013 at 08:17:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  But it is. This diary is offensive. (3+ / 0-)

        I find the framing of this diary and many of the comments to be highly inflammatory, xenophobic and borderline racist, and certainly fitting the historical profile of "Yellow Peril" that plagued Asians in the USA and Chinese in particular. If you are unfamiliar with the history, you could get some context by understanding "Yellow Peril" and Chinese Exclusion Laws, and how they figure in this discussion. Not pretty.

        If I were to publish a similar diary characterizing some other ethnic or national groups with the same sensationalistic tone, lack of objective facts and raising a call to action that requires discriminatory and exclusionary policy based on fear-mongering along ethnic or nationalistic lines, I would expect it to get HR'd to oblivion and possibly banned.

        And many comments in this thread amplify the hysteria, stereotypes and underlying prejudice.

        Conservatives are not the only people with ethnic prejudice problems that could shoot them in the foot. The China bashing in the last 3 electoral cycles included some truly disgusting displays by candidates of both parties Asians found offensive, but still they overlooked it to vote predominantly Democratic, ranking below African-Americans but above Hispanics in party loyalty.

        I'm glad this diary was published because it exposes the the problem and the prejudiced attitudes many site members have towards Asians in general and Chinese in particular.

        Time to deal with it, and the shoe fits. "Yellow Peril"

         photo TheYellowPerilb1.png

        Meat vs Rice - S. Gompers photo tso-keynotemeat-vs-rice406x362.jpg

        Oh, how ironic. Meat vs Rice.

         photo The-First-Blow-at-the-Chinese-Question-1s.jpg

         photo Pacific-Chivalry-Encouragement-to-Chinese-Immigration-Harpers-1s.jpg

         photo What-shall-we-do-with-our-boys-color-1s.jpg

         photo The-Chinese-Question-Harpers-1s.png

         photo On-His-High-Horse-1s.jpg

        From 1882 to 1943 Chinese were, by law, disenfranchised, deported, discriminated against, and excluded as a people from legally immigrating to the US.
        After the Civil War.

        The arguments then and the arguments here have a very similar tone, reasoning and objective.

        Keep the Chinese out. Got it. Message received.

        400ppm : what about my daughter's future?

        by koNko on Fri May 31, 2013 at 09:43:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  you need to separate the diary from the comments (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ChadmanFL, jlms qkw

          I agree about the comments but this diary is about a threat to the environment and climate change. It was published to Climate Change SOS.  Expansion of factory farms is a threat to the environment and will exacerbate climate change.

          Macca's Meatless Monday

          by VL Baker on Fri May 31, 2013 at 09:51:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You need to reconsider your framing (0+ / 0-)

            Which provoked the comments (in support of the sensationalistic memes you employed) that you now try to distance yourself from.

            I didn't make these people write this crap, I came late to this diary.

            Instead of accusing other people of being defensive, perhaps you should be a little less defensive and more objective about what you have written, verses the facts and with consideration of the implications of your proposed remedy.

            Maybe you did not intend to single out Chinese for abuse but that is the effect and your "call to arms" is exactly the type of rhetoric that is (excuse the expression) red meat for closet bigots and brings them out of the woodwork.

            As I stated in another comment directed to you I understand your position and (I think) your intention, and I even credit you for including an effective contrast between the effects of American business on China and the reverse playing out here.  

            But you beat the wrong drum and the response is a result. Honestly, this does not come out of a vacuum, it's what many people think and how they act toward Asians (same thing happened to Japanese in the 1980s).

            Hypothetical: If it were a Japanese, Israeli, Australian, German or English company as buyer, would you have written the same diary with the same framing, or even have written it at all?

            Would you have used the same shrill tone?

            Would there be Facebook pages on fire because [gasp] Chinese (/whomever) are buying an American company?

            I seriously doubt it.

            BTW, Americans eat more than twice the amount of meat per capita as Chinese. You can check that fact. But to read the narrative, one might conclude Chinese subsist primarily on pork.

            400ppm : what about my daughter's future?

            by koNko on Fri May 31, 2013 at 10:52:04 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  okay i'll change title to read Denmark is buying (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mimi

              Smithfield and Denmark is the country who had thousands of dead pigs floating in a river.

              I know the facts about meat consumption and I used them in a comment to you. please check your comments. I understand that the US is greatest consumer of meat..I've been writing about this for 5 years.  i can take it.

              Macca's Meatless Monday

              by VL Baker on Fri May 31, 2013 at 11:00:57 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Or you could factually note (0+ / 0-)

                That Japan is Smithfield's largest export market and how Japanese are destroying the US and threatening US security and the US food supply by buying Smithfield pork.

                400ppm : what about my daughter's future?

                by koNko on Fri May 31, 2013 at 02:01:49 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  Thank you for documenting the ugly history of... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          koNko, jlms qkw, Denise Oliver Velez

          ...anti-Chinese racism in the US.

          It's like we're fighting the Boxer Rebellion all over again.

          Remember that piece-of-shit dreck "55 Days in Peking" with Charlton Heston?

          History has taught me a valuable lesson: Genghis Khan but Immanuel Kant.

          by Metro99 on Fri May 31, 2013 at 10:29:07 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Poor choice of words here n/t (5+ / 0-)

      Some DKos series & groups worth your while: Black Kos, Native American Netroots, KosAbility, Monday Night Cancer Club. If you'd like to join the Motor City Kossacks, send me a Kosmail.

      by peregrine kate on Thu May 30, 2013 at 06:52:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Poor choice of words (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        koNko

        but not poor choice of sentiment, huh?

        "It is, it seems, politically impossible to organize expenditure on the scale necessary to prove my case -- except in war conditions."--JM Keynes, 1940

        by randomfacts on Thu May 30, 2013 at 09:21:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You trying to pick a fight? (0+ / 0-)

          Words tend to reflect sentiment.

          I definitely agree that there is a long-standing history of anti-Asian racism in the U.S., manifest in so many policies it's hard to count them all. Immigration and naturalization exclusions, hostile trade practices, internment camps (and the dispossession that went along with it), demonization of Asian enemies to a greater extent than European ones, etc. etc. And these of course would not have been possible without tacit or overt acceptance by the majority-white population for the past couple of centuries.

          However, the position you apparently hold, indicated by your later comment in this thread, was not at all clear from your first one.

          Some DKos series & groups worth your while: Black Kos, Native American Netroots, KosAbility, Monday Night Cancer Club. If you'd like to join the Motor City Kossacks, send me a Kosmail.

          by peregrine kate on Thu May 30, 2013 at 09:37:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Huh? n/t (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Clem Yeobright, Gordon20024

      Libertarianism is something that most people grow out of, not unlike, say, hay fever or asthma. Bob Johnson

      by randallt on Thu May 30, 2013 at 08:34:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  i read about this, too (18+ / 0-)

    sigh --

    the first thing i thought was "where is all that pig poop going to go?"  
    i didn't know about Ractopamine, though.  ugh.  
    i don't like pork, but i have read about pig poop here

    investigative piece on how Smithfield Foods, America's largest hog slaughterer, circumvents law, pollutes like crazy, and creates antibiotic and vaccine-laden pork products that feed our country.
    link:
    http://boingboing.net/...

    Faux News ruined my state

    by sc kitty on Thu May 30, 2013 at 05:54:45 PM PDT

    •  Once upon a time, hog farms were near corn (7+ / 0-)

      fields and 50 to 500 hogs.

      The corn didn't go far to feed the hogs, and the shit didn't have to go far to feed the corn.  A lot of the time, the corn farmers got paid in pork, avoiding the cash economy and cutting out a hell of a lot of middlemen.

      The whole system was a lot more efficient, but it wasn't nearly as good at externalizing costs.

      "The thing about smart motherfuckers is that they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers." Robert Kirkman

      by JesseCW on Thu May 30, 2013 at 08:19:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  just remember, Paula Deen is a spokesperson for (11+ / 0-)

      Smithfield

      I have never purchased in the past nor will i purchase in the future anything ''porked'' by Paula Deen and her klan

      Paula deen smithfield ham - Find the largest selection of paula deen smithfield ham on sale. Shop by price, color, locally and more. Get the best sales, coupons, and ...
      www.thefind.com/food/browse-paula-deen-​smithfield-ham
      and besides they smoke everything with hickory - one of the bitterest tasting wood smokes you can use (cause its cheap)

      Smithfield & Williamsburg Premium Country Hams - A milder flavor, short cut, hickory smoked ham that should also be sliced very thin. This too is dry salt-cured, but with less salt content because the curing process is shortened and aged to a minimum of three to six months.
      http://www.smithfieldhams.com/...

      And the best pig poop story i read....

      The Mystery of Exploding Pig Poop
      —By Tom Philpott
      | Thu Feb. 9, 2012 4:00 PM PST40.Stink bomb: Potentially explosive foaming manure on a hog farm University of MinnesotaA specter haunts the Midwest's factory-scale hog farms: the specter of explosive "manure foam." From the Minnesota Daily:

      A few years ago, hog farmers throughout the Midwest noticed foam building on top of their manure pits. Soon after, barns began exploding, killing thousands of hogs while farmers lost millions of dollars.

      And you thought Santorum was gross.

      But seriously, what gives? First, it helps to have an idea of how manure is handled at industrial hog facilities. In his classic 2005 Rolling Stone exposé of the industrial pork giant Smithfield, Jeff Tietz provided a vivid description:

      The floors are slatted to allow excrement to fall into a catchment pit under the pens, but many things besides excrement can wind up in the pits: afterbirths, piglets accidentally crushed by their mothers, old batteries, broken bottles of insecticide, antibiotic syringes, stillborn pigs—anything small enough to fit through the foot-wide pipes that drain the pits. The pipes remain closed until enough sewage accumulates in the pits to create good expulsion pressure; then the pipes are opened and everything bursts out into a large holding pond.

      The manure itself is pretty nasty, too. Pigs on factory farms are given daily doses of antibiotics and growth-promoting additives like ractopamine, much of which ends up in their waste. So what you get in those cesspools, the ones now exploding in the Midwest, is kind of a stew of bacteria, antibacterial agents, and novel antibiotic-resistant bacteria strains, all mixed with the random detritus described by Tietz.
      http://www.motherjones.com/...

      ''A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned to walk forward.'' FDR

      by lostinamerica on Thu May 30, 2013 at 09:20:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I buy local (0+ / 0-)

        We don't have pork often, so when I'm buying the Easter or Christmas ham, I go to our local farmer's market and buy mine from local farmers.  It doesn't even cost much more than the grocery store brands and the quality is much better.

        "If you can't take their money, eat their food, drink their booze and then vote against them, you have no business being in DC."

        by Betty Pinson on Fri May 31, 2013 at 07:16:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  If most people saw how the animals they eat (16+ / 0-)

    were treated, they would stop eating meat or insist on humane farming. Imho we really aren't far from barbaric when it comes to this.

    "Say little, do much" (Pirkei Avot 1:15)

    by hester on Thu May 30, 2013 at 06:09:59 PM PDT

  •  I am so excited to hear this considering (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    on the cusp, Matt Z, ChadmanFL

    The kid who checked me out at the Petlife
    Pet store today told me the reason The bully stick
    I was purchasing for my dog Maggie was $10 was because the Chinese are actually buying them up at a rate unseen before so they can eat them.

    "THEY ARE MADE FROM BULL PENISES"

    THIS IS WHAT AMERICANS Will be eating now!

    YIPPEE?

  •  Well, now we know why (14+ / 0-)

    the U.S. government just decided to stop inspecting pork processing plants.

    CSA, here I come baby. As long as they remain unconquered by corporate.

    "When people spin this in partisan terms to obfuscate the truth, it does a real disservice to normal people not in the big club in DC. Many of them will be hurting...That is why I write."--priceman

    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Thu May 30, 2013 at 06:12:24 PM PDT

  •  Also.... (20+ / 0-)

    Listened to NPR today discussing toxic chemical and the lack of any significant legislation on regulating them for the last 17 years.  Cannot believe that with the U.S. using thousands of toxic chemicals in everything we use for our bodies, only 5 are regulated.  We are a nation on a path to self fucking destruction!

  •  So, how far are we going to go? Foregin pipelines (17+ / 0-)

    that will contaminate our lands but will not provide us with energy, increased meat production for other countries (while we continue to consume less of it) while contaminating our lands - how unliveable will parts of our country have to get before we fight back against corporate power?

  •  I find this all horrifying. (30+ / 0-)

    There is a great demand in China for meat, and the US factory farms have already done great environmental damage in the South and Midwest.

    •  we must regulate pollution here. that's the only (15+ / 0-)

      solution i can see.  good to see you ((bjm))

      Macca's Meatless Monday

      by VL Baker on Thu May 30, 2013 at 06:23:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Was not the administration readying some (3+ / 0-)

        fast-track international agreements that would limit the ability of local governments to apply environmental and other regulations on international trade that winds up on your store's shelf?

        It seems that our on-demand world economy, with its proliferation of absurd supply lines and increasing control of national governments, will be used to circumvent Madison's vision of governmental checks and balances on majorities, factions, and the powerful.

        We need to get a step ahead, and reinforce the notion that government is of, by, and for the people--and envision the thing anew.

        I know many of us are dealing with these realities--even on TED videos, and such--but we have to build bridges between the different people's movements (environmental, discrimination, economic, etc.) with an eye toward international reform. It has to be a designated and organized part of every people's effort--the international dimension, and our objectives. We are still too scattered to effectively oppose the well-organized corporate power-pools.

        What interesting times we live in.

        The labor of a human being is not a commodity or article of commerce. Clayton Act, Section 6.

        by Ignacio Magaloni on Thu May 30, 2013 at 10:08:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, but (0+ / 0-)

          Ironically, it excludes China and is aimed to counter growing Chinese influence in Asia in favor of American.

          Particularly, it would provide SE Asian nations the US is grooming as client states advantageous trade terms, notably at a time when rising labor rates in China make lower labor rate countries ripe for cultivation, to use the polite term.

          400ppm : what about my daughter's future?

          by koNko on Fri May 31, 2013 at 10:59:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  essentially and worse /eom (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jlms qkw, zmom, corvo
  •  doesn't this leave (17+ / 0-)

    all the CAFO-poop pools here in the USA

    and the meat goes to china?  

    bad idea.  

    Ted Kennedy: “The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die…”

    by jlms qkw on Thu May 30, 2013 at 06:25:18 PM PDT

  •  This. should. not. be. approved. (16+ / 0-)

    Smithfield claims they have to let China take over their company in order to sell their products in China's market.  BS.

    Can anyone imagine the reverse happening?  Can anyone imagine the hue and cry if the US required every company wishing to sell products here to sell their company to a US corporation?

    It wouldn't happen, so why are we allowing Smithfield to sell to China?

    "If you can't take their money, eat their food, drink their booze and then vote against them, you have no business being up there."

    by Betty Pinson on Thu May 30, 2013 at 06:46:41 PM PDT

  •  Well, our food standards (5+ / 0-)

    are about on China's level, and China is one of the few large countries that will buy our meat without question.  So really, given China's continued destruction of its own arable land and the fact that we have virtually nothing else but weaponry to sell, this is inevitable, tragic and disgusting as it may be.

    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

    by corvo on Thu May 30, 2013 at 07:34:47 PM PDT

  •  We're the greatest third world nation there is! nt (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    terabytes, I Lurked For Years

    "The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

    by Lily O Lady on Thu May 30, 2013 at 07:46:41 PM PDT

    •  For sure! What a TOOL was Carl Sandburgh! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      randallt
           HOG Butcher for the World,   
            Tool Maker, Stacker of Wheat,   
            Player with Railroads and the Nation’s Freight Handler;   
            Stormy, husky, brawling,   
            City of the Big Shoulders
      Thank FSM you dropped in to explain US history.

      Too late for the simple life, too early for android love slaves - Savio

      by Clem Yeobright on Thu May 30, 2013 at 08:06:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sandburg was a socialist, and I (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        shaharazade, ChadmanFL, zmom

        think he would have been appalled by the corporatization of his beloved country. Certainly the deterioration of our infrastructure, including railroads, would have saddened him.

        At the time Sandburg wrote the poem you quote, we didn't have pig waste lagoons that have breached and run into water courses. The Chicago poems were written in 1916. The poems from which you quote celebrated the energy of the city of Chicago, not the entire US, and were born in a very different age.

        If the earth is to remain livable, mankind needs to reconsider how we produce our food and stop burning fossil fuels to ship it ridiculously long distances. Our wasteful lifestyle must change.

        "The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

        by Lily O Lady on Fri May 31, 2013 at 05:14:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  China will eventually buy every bite of food (3+ / 0-)

    from America, and when someone complains that they are hungry, we can all count upon someone here at DKos accusing them of being Sinophobes.

    I would wield food like a butcher knife at the throat of China, if I were president.  It's the only leverage we've got.

    While they hack our pentagon and fortune 500 companies at will.

    Somebody needs the cojones to jerk their chain, and jerk it hard.

    You know you're in Oregon when you only see people using an umbrella to protect themselves from the sun.

    by Keith930 on Thu May 30, 2013 at 08:03:54 PM PDT

    •  They eat cojones. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kickemout, flowerfarmer, shaharazade

      For breakfast.

      Too late for the simple life, too early for android love slaves - Savio

      by Clem Yeobright on Thu May 30, 2013 at 08:14:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Jack London covered this in ~1910: (0+ / 0-)

      The Unparalleled Invasion.
      There's a link to the London Online Collection there, an interesting read...

      "Double, double, toile and trouble; Fire burne, and Cauldron bubble... By the pricking of my Thumbes, Something wicked this way comes": Republicans!!. . Willkommen im Vierten Reich! Sie haben keine Bedeutung mehr.

      by Bluefin on Thu May 30, 2013 at 10:03:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I should have put a caution on reading that (0+ / 0-)

        story above, it is not for those with tender sensibilities or the easily offended. Let's say the context was a bit different 100 years ago.

        "Double, double, toile and trouble; Fire burne, and Cauldron bubble... By the pricking of my Thumbes, Something wicked this way comes": Republicans!!. . Willkommen im Vierten Reich! Sie haben keine Bedeutung mehr.

        by Bluefin on Thu May 30, 2013 at 10:08:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I've never known anyone here to have tender (0+ / 0-)

          sensibilities or to be easily offended.  Have you?

          You know you're in Oregon when you only see people using an umbrella to protect themselves from the sun.

          by Keith930 on Thu May 30, 2013 at 10:12:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You forgot a snark indicator... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            shaharazade

            BTW, Jack Londons' yacht was named the "Snark".

            "Double, double, toile and trouble; Fire burne, and Cauldron bubble... By the pricking of my Thumbes, Something wicked this way comes": Republicans!!. . Willkommen im Vierten Reich! Sie haben keine Bedeutung mehr.

            by Bluefin on Thu May 30, 2013 at 10:40:58 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Winner ! ^^^ Worst comment in this thread. (7+ / 0-)

      Zenophobic, factually incorrect, and inhumane:

      I would wield food like a butcher knife at the throat of China, if I were president.  It's the only leverage we've got.
      First of all, how would the US threaten China over food, when China is a net food exporter and probably will be for the foreseeable future? When a country has 3000 years of experience in agriculture under intense land use conditions, it develops a remarkable capacity to produce food. China imports food primarily as a matter of price, convenience and quality, not because any other country is able to threaten them over access to sufficient food.

      Second, assuming that in an alternative bizarro universe, China was dependent on food imports, why would you want to threaten the Chinese people with starvation -- assuming you had some disagreement, say, with its political leadership? Would you also "wield food like a butcher knife at the throat" of, say, the people of Ethiopia, who rely on food aid? Woo Hoo!! Kill the damned Ethiopians! If so, why? Why would you want to starve out millions of people to live out a revenge fantasy?  Would you want to wield food exports like a knife to the throats of Europeans who are actually more dependent on food imports than the Chinese?

      And what exactly would you be wielding this knife over? What exactly is it that the Chinese have done to you that makes you fantasize about starving them?

      And how is it the "only leverage we've got"? How about technological cooperation and transfers? How about mutual diplomatic support for each other's global initiatives? How about the carrot of economic cooperation? In essence, why not think first about all the things that governments do to influence each otehr short of genocide? Why is it that when it comes to influencing China, the first thing that comes to mind is mass starvation?

      Massive fail.  Just massive.

    •  Based on your comment, the shoe fits (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      HamdenRice, melfunction, Mikey

      Your comment is really hysterical nonsense and borderline racist so I'm happy to be the first to call you a Sinophobe.

      If you fear and hate Chinese so much then I suggest you assemble a posse here on Daily Kos and make a massive HR campaign against me so I get banned from the site.

      Because, you never know, I could be hacking your account next, eating your lunch and maybe stealing your women to turn them out to white slavery.

      We can't help ourselves, we're yellow skinned mad dogs that can't be civilized and will over-run the world, very-very soon.

      400ppm : what about my daughter's future?

      by koNko on Fri May 31, 2013 at 09:53:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  My mind is boggled reading this comment. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      HamdenRice, melfunction, Mikey

      Do you actually believe what you just posted? The degree of imperialist posturing and militaristic bullying is stunning.

      You make Richard Bruce Cheney sound like Mother Teresa.

      Depressing to read this horrible sentiment on dKos.

      History has taught me a valuable lesson: Genghis Khan but Immanuel Kant.

      by Metro99 on Fri May 31, 2013 at 10:10:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I heard this yesterday and was (0+ / 0-)

    quite upset.  We really are becoming the world's dumping ground.  But, hey, we have a strong military and the 2nd amendment.  Yay us.

    The thing about democracy, beloveds, is that it is not neat, orderly, or quiet. It requires a certain relish for confusion. Molly Ivins

    by MufsMom on Thu May 30, 2013 at 08:04:49 PM PDT

    •  Hoover should NEVER have fed Europe. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      koNko

      And Sandburg should have PROTESTED being hog butcher to the world.

      Damn Chinese  STILL can't do cornrows right; we should go with our strengths.

      Too late for the simple life, too early for android love slaves - Savio

      by Clem Yeobright on Thu May 30, 2013 at 08:19:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Chinese Environmental Standards (0+ / 0-)

    Just as China let America's manufacturers finally return to their pre Silent Spring polluting ways in China, China's farmers will bring its own "thousands of dead pigs floating down a river" polluting ways (back) to the US. Smithfield's giant influence in lobbying will have new Chinese drive in lowering livestock standards. The rest of the industry will gleefully join its foreign competition into its cartel.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Thu May 30, 2013 at 08:38:45 PM PDT

  •  Hmmm Can China Raise American Pork? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ChadmanFL

    Much of the pork  they consume in China is extremely low grade and would not even qualify as "meat" in the US.  

    Also, in even of war over Taiwan or something, we get to seize control of those Chinese assets on our soil.

    There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

    by bernardpliers on Thu May 30, 2013 at 08:44:47 PM PDT

  •  Why not just eat people? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    beach babe in fl, ChadmanFL

    Neither the Chinese government nor corporate America would have any moral objections to such a concept.

    Process defines product.

    by Troubadour on Thu May 30, 2013 at 10:14:15 PM PDT

  •  I will never (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ChadmanFL

    buy anything from Smithfield now owned by our enemy, the Chinese. I try to avoid anything Chinese but wall street has made that virtually impossible.

    Hillary Clinton 2016

    by artr2 on Fri May 31, 2013 at 12:21:54 AM PDT

  •  This diary and its responses are bizarre (17+ / 0-)

    " the Asian nation's" appears in your first sentence. Isn't the U.S. also an "Asian" nation (insofar as Asian people live here and are citizens)?

    Then I see people making comments in response to the diary about "our enemy, the Chinese"

    Is it possible that both race and nationalism are on display here? And what does that (racism and nationalism) have to do with progressive politics?

    •  How many times can I rec this? (10+ / 0-)

      For a progressive website the Sinophobia and nationalism is so thick that I can cut it with a butcher's knife. The US hypes US investment around the world. We offer it as the solution to local economic problems. Yet when the second largest economy in the world wants to invest here in the US we scream murder.

      We have a huge balance of trade deficit with China. They are manufacturing the Lion's share of our consumer goods. We are not exporting enough to cover our debt to them, that is we are not paying for those goods. Therefore it is only natural that they should take some of that $T+ debt and buy some of our assets. It's even better if that asset results in more product export from the US to China. What I get from this conversation is that it is OK for Chinese workers to make Ipods at low wages, but not OK for US workers to make Pork products for China.

      In the long run labor costs in China will increase with a higher standard of living for their workers. If we can grow a competitive manufacturing sector, then the balance of trade will even out.

      •  We went throught this with Japan in the 90s. (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Rich in PA, HamdenRice, Ajipon, koNko, Metro99

        They were going to take over the US, blah blah blah. Things don't change much do they? On this topic, China has issues, big issues, but the tone is jingoistic at times.

        Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther

        by the fan man on Fri May 31, 2013 at 03:51:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  environment anyone? n/t (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          shaharazade

          Macca's Meatless Monday

          by VL Baker on Fri May 31, 2013 at 05:25:23 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Clueless framing? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            HamdenRice, Mikey, The Wizard

            Suggest you go back to read your diary from the viewpoint of  Chinese person and then read the numerous xenophobic and anti-Chinese comments it engendered (and these are your supporters).

            Pretty much a fail.

            400ppm : what about my daughter's future?

            by koNko on Fri May 31, 2013 at 10:05:50 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  diary sticks to the facts. i was as harsh on US (0+ / 0-)

              livestock production as i was on Chinas.  They both have very poor records.  i can take criticism and give criticism to US agriculture practices. i do that on here almost daily. I'm not over sensitive. This is supposed to be a reality based site.

              Macca's Meatless Monday

              by VL Baker on Fri May 31, 2013 at 10:14:18 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The diary does not "stick to the facts" (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                koNko, Mikey

                It's full of wild exaggeration.

                Let's start with the headline. Do you believe, honestly, that if China buys Smithfield, the US will become "one big factory farm"?

                Are you suggesting that New York, Chicago, Yellowstone, the campus of Texas A&M, whatever, the US will become "one big factory farm"? The headline is a lie and there are plenty more gross exaggerations throughout the diary.

                Sorry to be harsh, because I know you've written some good diaries, but we sometimes exaggerate to get attention in this very busy forum and when we do, it often brings out the worst in readers, which is exactly what has happened here. This is just a China hate fest at this point.

            •  Perhaps a few levels too high to understand (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              HamdenRice, koNko

              I spent three weeks in China and have lots of friends there. If you go and start with one friend you will return with many as everything is done in social groups. I had some very good discussions about politics and economics, with a wide variety of folks including members of the CP. They know the US far better than we know China. It's embarrassing. They understand the issues and challenges that they face. They do complain about attitudes in the US towards China, with convincing objectivity. Consider that our Right Wing press is totally antagonistic and the rest of the press just goes along with over-simplistic China bashing. When I read this diary I could see them shaking their heads, here comes more over-simplistic China bashing.  This is becoming a serious problem as we share the stage with China as the two largest economies. I heard a great deal of respect for US technology and US made products and US schools.

              So I ask, dear reader, what do you know about China, except the obvious negatives repeated over and over? Even from close Progressive friends I can't get two sentences into talking about China without hearing spewing negatives. I mentioned that I had returned from China to a local guy who has exemplary politics and works as a city planner. He launched into a monologue diatribe about China that was patently false and .. well.. embarrassing.

              Have you ever read in the press that China has a very successful agriculture sector feeding all 1.3 Billion people and exporting food, that they have the best civil engineers in the world and a very aggressive program to develop sustainable energy, and that their cities, although more populous than ours, have an immense amount of distributed green space? The police I saw in Beijing were unarmed and friendly. People would gather in groups in public spaces iin the evenings to partake in common interests, such as singing or ballroom dancing. I asked about permits and they thought I was joking.

              I asked the obvious question, some people in the US believe that China's economy is about to crash and burn. The response was 100% that it was total nonsense, that the economy might slow down to 8% growth and take a breather but there was no way that it was going to crash. So, again, dear reader, why do I read comments over and over again about impending doom in China?

        •  Actually the racist anti-Japanese hysteria... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          koNko, the fan man

          ...ran from about 1975 to about 1990 when the Japanese real estate bubble burst and its economy went into a tailspin.

          Though I agree  there were residual elements until the mid-1990s.

          History has taught me a valuable lesson: Genghis Khan but Immanuel Kant.

          by Metro99 on Fri May 31, 2013 at 10:19:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah, this diary is ridiculous in my opinion. (6+ / 0-)

      The idea that pork production will go to anyone besides the highest bidder is nuts, whether Smithfield is own by the lady down the street or the conglomerate in China.

      You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

      by Rich in PA on Fri May 31, 2013 at 03:56:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Finally a common sense response to nonsense (6+ / 0-)

      Both the diary and the responses are disturbing -- because of their inherent zenophobia about China, because of the basic factual errors made, and because of the lack of economic understanding.

      First of all, since the US agricultural sector has been feeding much of the world for, oh, I don't know, about 200 years, it seems weird to get hysterical that the pork sector has added a market, China.  What's next? OMG!!! Brazil is going to be turned into the starbucks of Europe because they grow coffee!!!!

      Second, there is the bizarre claim that China is acquiring Smithfield to take advantage of "lax" standards in the US. All news reports say exactly the opposite, which is to say, this Chinese company is acquiring Smithfield because of its higher standards and the extreme dissatisfaction that Chinese consumers have with the low standards of Chinese pork and other foods. They are afraid of feeding their children tainted foods. So it seems to me that it's not a bad thing that millions of Chinese parents will have safer food to feed their children -- but you have actually have empathy for Chinese people, as people, as parents and consumers, for a concept like that to take hold.

      Third, the 2008 financial collapse was caused at bottom by gross financial imbalances. China was accumulating massive amounts of US cash and treasuries, and without an investment outlet in the US (because of restrictions in acquisitions), one of the few choices they had was to buy mortgage backed securities, and this super cheap debt in turn fueled the mortgage bubble and ultimate collapse. Even left wing economists like Dean Baker were writing in 2008 and 2009 that the only way out was to let China invest in productive activities in the US, which would not only solve the imbalances but as they bought up assets would act like a "stimulus package" in the hundred billion dollar range.

      Lastly, the panic over greenhouse gases is misplaced. The pork is going to be grown and eaten -- either in China or in the US. Carbon is a global form of pollution. It doesn't matter exactly where it's produced. Moving production here does not increase CO2 emissions, and saying it increases CO2 emissions in the US is like saying our air is not the same air as China's air.

      There is so much wrong here -- and so much China phobia here -- that it's sad to think how many people here are basically nationalists and really do believe in "yellow peril." As someone wrote upthread we saw the same crap with Japan in the 1980s.

      •  There's a difference (0+ / 0-)

        between selling the product and selling the company, but I take it that's a distinction you have chosen to deliberately obscure with ridicule for those who might raise the issue.

        Hic Rhodus, hic salta!

        by ActivistGuy on Fri May 31, 2013 at 07:07:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Uh, what? (0+ / 0-)

          Did you read my comment?

          Third, the 2008 financial collapse was caused at bottom by gross financial imbalances. China was accumulating massive amounts of US cash and treasuries, and without an investment outlet in the US (because of restrictions in acquisitions), one of the few choices they had was to buy mortgage backed securities, and this super cheap debt in turn fueled the mortgage bubble and ultimate collapse. Even left wing economists like Dean Baker were writing in 2008 and 2009 that the only way out was to let China invest in productive activities in the US, which would not only solve the imbalances but as they bought up assets would act like a "stimulus package" in the hundred billion dollar range.
          In that paragraph, I explain why it's a good thing to sell the company. It's not like they can't still sell pork in the US. It's a matter of where this US company will get investment funds from.

          And where is the ridicule? Please point out a specific example in my post.

          Or is simply correcting factual errors now considered ridicule?

      •  Food safety is a huge selling point we should use (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ajipon, HamdenRice

        It's telling that a pork producer has such low hope of giving up on reforming the food industry that it is going to buy pork from a relatively expensive country for shipping to China.

        The lesson is that we should expand our food safety programs, which are underfunded anyway.  It sells well.

         

        "We're now in one of those periods when the reality of intense pressure on the middle class diverges from long-held assumptions of how the American bargain should work" --James Fallows

        by Inland on Fri May 31, 2013 at 07:42:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  your non stop false accusations (0+ / 0-)

        About racism and hatred for the Chinese is despicable and beyond the pale. I am reporting this.

        We consume the carcasses of creatures of like appetites, passions and organs with our own, and fill the slaughterhouses daily with screams of pain and fear. Robert Louis Stevenson

        by Christin on Fri May 31, 2013 at 01:56:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  duh, it's about the environment and factory farms (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Radiowalla, zmom

      contribution to climate change ...

      Macca's Meatless Monday

      by VL Baker on Fri May 31, 2013 at 05:24:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Seems history is reversing (3+ / 0-)

    the US landscape will be exploited for China's relentless consumption of fossil fuels and pork and whatever. A few people will make billions, they won't care what this exploitation is doing to the US environment.

    To thine ownself be true

    by Agathena on Fri May 31, 2013 at 05:33:50 AM PDT

  •  It doesn't matter that the Chinese will own it (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ajipon, Aquarius40, HamdenRice, koNko

    If there's lax regulation, companies will exploit that.  Fix the regulations. It won't get worse just because a Chinese company pulls the strings. It won't get any better, either.

    Only regulations and consumer pressure can make that happen.

    This reminds me a bit of the hysteria about the Japanese buying everything in the 80's.

    "Don't be defeatist, dear. It's very middle class." - Violet Crawley

    by nightsweat on Fri May 31, 2013 at 06:50:51 AM PDT

    •  this is about the environment. we do not need to (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Radiowalla, shaharazade

      expand factory farming we need to abolish it due to its immense contribution to climate change & resource depletion.  

      Macca's Meatless Monday

      by VL Baker on Fri May 31, 2013 at 07:03:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Let's see - how likely is it that the Chinese (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        beach babe in fl

        owners and managers of this company will make huge campaign contributions to politicians so that environmental regs will be maintained at a very lax level in order to accommodate increased production and profitability?  What, say, about 100% likely?  That would be my guess.  And the public will vote for that too so they can get a job on the pig farm and in the pork processing facility, non-unionized of course.

        Welcome to the future.

        The elevation of appearance over substance, of celebrity over character, of short term gains over lasting achievement displays a poverty of ambition. It distracts you from what's truly important. - Barack Obama

        by helfenburg on Fri May 31, 2013 at 07:47:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  About as likely as US owners and managers. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          beach babe in fl, Mikey

          The incentive to dump environmental problems on someone else exists for everyone not at the end of the sewer pipe.  You don't have to travel halfway around the world to find such people.

          Rather than pretend that the US owners and managers have any interest in policing themselves, there has to be actual regulation and actual enforcement.

          "We're now in one of those periods when the reality of intense pressure on the middle class diverges from long-held assumptions of how the American bargain should work" --James Fallows

          by Inland on Fri May 31, 2013 at 07:57:14 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, it does seem to me that we have more (0+ / 0-)

            possible opportunities to know about what is going on and to exercise control over the situation if the corporation is US owned.  

            The elevation of appearance over substance, of celebrity over character, of short term gains over lasting achievement displays a poverty of ambition. It distracts you from what's truly important. - Barack Obama

            by helfenburg on Sat Jun 01, 2013 at 02:43:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  But how does Chinese involvement matter? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        HamdenRice, koNko, Mikey

        Smithfield either sells to China or ships to them as a subsidiary of a Chinese company.

        It's the regulations, not the ownership that matter.

        This seems a little like attacking Iraq when an Afghan group attacks you.

        "Don't be defeatist, dear. It's very middle class." - Violet Crawley

        by nightsweat on Fri May 31, 2013 at 08:13:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  We're double-cooked pork (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    beach babe in fl, helfenburg

    It's been the deliberate policy decision of US neoliberalism, our bipartisan economic hegemony, to keep asset prices under control for the benefit of "investors".  At the same time, we have deindustrialized and run huge current account and capital deficits with our "trading partners".  This is the inevitable resolution of that bundle of policies and practices, this and hundreds more like it to follow.

    Hic Rhodus, hic salta!

    by ActivistGuy on Fri May 31, 2013 at 07:02:56 AM PDT

  •  Smithfield may face a U.S. retail backlash (0+ / 0-)

    if they sell to a Chinese corp.

    I was told that there's already buzz on Facebook, with people wanting to know which brands they own. I don't do Facebook, so I can't confirm it, but the person who mentioned it is reliable.

    "The human eye is a wonderful device. With a little effort, it can fail to see even the most glaring injustice." Richard K. Morgan

    by sceptical observer on Fri May 31, 2013 at 07:25:07 AM PDT

    •  Possible. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      HamdenRice, sceptical observer, Mikey

      Americans have regressed back towards the anti-Chinese hysteria of the 1880s that resulted in the systematic and legal disenfranchisement, deportation and exclusion of Chinese from the US between 1882 and 1943, but effectively (by immigration quotas) up to the 1980s.

      Americans are OK with Americans owning businesses all over the world, but let some yellow skinned devil flash some cash to buy a company in the US and it's suddenly a nation under siege.

      It would be kind of comical if it wasn't such an accurate picture of popular sentiment, including many members of Congress.

      Good news for the GOP; lots Democrats hate and fear Chinese too, so they don't have a monopoly on tone-deafness or bigotry.

      400ppm : what about my daughter's future?

      by koNko on Fri May 31, 2013 at 10:15:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  We all need to step back & reflect (5+ / 0-)

    Some of these comments are pretty ugly.

    look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

    by FishOutofWater on Fri May 31, 2013 at 07:26:45 AM PDT

    •  i write about solutions so i'm used to this... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Radiowalla, shaharazade

      people get defensive.  They don't want to be part of solution.

      Macca's Meatless Monday

      by VL Baker on Fri May 31, 2013 at 07:37:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Are you suggesting (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        HamdenRice, Mikey

        I shouldn't get offended by your framing and the bigoted remarks on this tread?

        Seriously, how would you expect any Chinese not to get offended?

        Are you really so myopic you cannot understand the implications of your remarks and the response that it has prompted?

        Well, it worked for the Nazis to rid Germany of a "Jewish" problem much as you described, so why not with the USA to help to rid it of it's "Chinese problem".

        This is not over the top. You need to read your own words from a different perspective and see where it leads.

        Or are you too defensive to do that?

        400ppm : what about my daughter's future?

        by koNko on Fri May 31, 2013 at 10:21:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Addenda (0+ / 0-)

          I don't mean to imply you had that in mind, but rather that it's a short putt for others to go there prompted by your remarks.

          And they are going there, by your own admission and links.

          400ppm : what about my daughter's future?

          by koNko on Fri May 31, 2013 at 12:13:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Free trade comes home to wallow. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shaharazade

    The elevation of appearance over substance, of celebrity over character, of short term gains over lasting achievement displays a poverty of ambition. It distracts you from what's truly important. - Barack Obama

    by helfenburg on Fri May 31, 2013 at 07:41:41 AM PDT

  •  US must get rid of CITIZENS' UNITED NOW! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ChadmanFL

    This major sale of a large US company is a clear indicator that we must get rid of CITIZENS' UNITED now. We as a people cannot have foreign corporate entities with AM nomenclature influencing
    American economic policies and societal norms. The US CHAMBER of Commerce is already mixing foreign dues $$ in with general funds and then sending those $$ out the back door into political PACs. ALEC and american business group writing legislation for lazy GOP legislators across the country pose a clear and present danger to our democracy . We must get rid of CITIZENS' UNITED now. The SCOTUS was so very wrong in granting corps rits as persons and no responsibilities for their bad conduct. They dont shed blood for human rights. CORPS are not persons. And Citizens United has to go ASAP.

    An EGG is not a person, A corporation is not a person!

    by CarmanK on Fri May 31, 2013 at 08:42:38 AM PDT

  •  Please ask yourselves, (4+ / 0-)

    If it were a German company or a Japanese company buying the pig farm, would you make the same objection?

    If it's the environment you're concerned, then shouldn't you pursue a fair regulation for all farms, not just this particular one?

    If it's the treatment of animal you object to, then shouldn't the issue then be the reduction of meat consumption, through moral persuasion or through regulations?

    I personally realize that I have my arbitrary standard of how animals should be treated. I love dogs. I like horses. I don't care much about frogs I ran through with my car that just happen to be on the road trying to cross. I didn't mind eating meat after I saw how the animals were treated in the farm.

    I understand that perhaps my view may be seen as backwards in a century. Maybe animals would get rights not given to them now - that's another set of moral discussion right there. I also understand that culture is not a proper defense. Slavery as an institution has been with us for millenia, until just a couple of centuries ago. Who knows, jamon will be viewed as vile in five hundred years and all our food culture might change?

    Aside from moral persuasion (that animals have consciousness just like us, etc), I think the best way to wean people of meat is to charge external costs to meat raising farms. Farms have to pay for all the shit they produce, or they have to invest in shit-processing facilities. They have to pay for the water their animals consume. See how the price of meat will rise, and let the economy do its job. It would protect the environment too!

    Of course, if this were implemented world wide, you will see government topple from food strikes. The reality currently is that meat consumption is not going anywhere. It would take an immense political power to implement, which might not be available. It is not an easy clear cut issue, of course. Remember it took a civil war to change a culture abruptly (and the culture still lingers).

    So that's a lot of digression from a Chinese company buying an American company. Really, honestly, what issue are we really talking about here? Is it the treatment of animals? Is it the environment? Or is it the word China?

  •  it's about the environment. we all will suffer (0+ / 0-)

    because of livestocks production immense contribution to climate change & resource depletion.

    If it were a German company or a Japanese company buying the pig farm, would you make the same objection?

    If it's the environment you're concerned, then shouldn't you pursue a fair regulation for all farms, not just this particular one?

    If it's the treatment of animal you object to, then shouldn't the issue then be the reduction of meat consumption, through moral persuasion or through regulations?

    I do all of these. Get familiar with my work. I've been writing on this subject for 5 years on the Kos.

    Macca's Meatless Monday

    by VL Baker on Fri May 31, 2013 at 09:15:33 AM PDT

  •  I want my own pigs - and these here (0+ / 0-)

    ask you to not eat any pork anymore that was "produced" by Smithfield Food, Inc or any of their evil Chinese brothers. Everybody has the right to their own pig in their backyard. Got that? Don't underestimate the power of us pigs.

    Es lebe die Revolution der Schweine! Jawohl!

    _45334735_466-ap-piglets

    Sigh.

    If U.S. welfare standards were introduced in Europe, "we would have revolution, not tomorrow, but on the very same day," Schaeuble (German Finance Minister) told a conference in Paris on May 28th 2013.

    by mimi on Fri May 31, 2013 at 09:30:52 AM PDT

    •  well, we are also snarky pigs /nt (0+ / 0-)

      If U.S. welfare standards were introduced in Europe, "we would have revolution, not tomorrow, but on the very same day," Schaeuble (German Finance Minister) told a conference in Paris on May 28th 2013.

      by mimi on Fri May 31, 2013 at 09:54:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  ^^^^^ "evil Chinese brothers" ???? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ajipon

      I can't believe what I'm reading on DailyKos.

      Have I stumbled into Stormfront without realizing it???

      •  Yeah, evil German Stormfront commentator here ! (0+ / 0-)

        You stumbled. Let me give you a hand to lift you up.

        My little piglets think you have no sense of humor.  And I agree with them.

        Signed: United Piglet Brothers in Arms.

        Peace.

        For you:

      •  stop it hamdenrice. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        beach babe in fl

        Reported for making false accusations of racism .
        Again.
        You are spamming this diary.u

        We consume the carcasses of creatures of like appetites, passions and organs with our own, and fill the slaughterhouses daily with screams of pain and fear. Robert Louis Stevenson

        by Christin on Fri May 31, 2013 at 01:58:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  WTF? (0+ / 0-)

          Disagreement is not spamming. I provided analysis of the monetary and environmental effects of the acquisition. I've also noted concern, as have several Asian DKer's of the "yellow peril" tone of the discussion.

          Just how are these "false accusations of racism"? How is noting the term, "evil Chinese brothers" a "false accusation" of racism.

          Please do explain.

        •  can't contribute in others ways so some just spam (0+ / 0-)

          Macca's Meatless Monday

          by VL Baker on Fri May 31, 2013 at 07:39:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks beach babe (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    beach babe in fl, zmom

    contrary to all the meat lovers here big corporate meat factories are insane as far as the environment and our diet goes. This is just a taste of what's to come once they complete the TPP trade treaty. Eating meat and food produced and processed by these giant global corporations isn't healthy and it's killing the planet. Buy local think global comes to mind, so does pink slime and meat that's raised and processed in these factories. Shipping pork to China seems like a double whammy environmentally and economically. Sorry your dairy got the treatment. Sad that people cannot see past the corporate suicidal global 'world as we find it'.  

    •  i write about consumption and the huge disconnect (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shaharazade

      between consumption and climate change. most don't want to make any changes so we all will suffer.

      Macca's Meatless Monday

      by VL Baker on Fri May 31, 2013 at 09:59:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I appreciate (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        beach babe in fl, zmom

        your work. You make the obvious connection between consumption and climate change and offer people another way to live. It's really not that hard to give up crap non food and has the benefit of actually making your life better.  So keep it up a lot of us are making changes in our consumption be it food, transportation or supporting local economies.  Most of the people I know in real life have made the connection and realize that change is needed. Cause and effect is not that hard to grasp and the changes that are required would make our lives healthier, less stressful and more connected to nature.      

  •  Factory farming is obscene for the animals, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    beach babe in fl, dinazina

    their neighbors and an environmental horror.  That was my first thought when I heard this. I want factory farming gone and humane treatment of animals to be the common practice.

  •  We have become a third world country! eom. (0+ / 0-)

    While not all republicans are bigots, all bigots are republicans.

    by Maximilien Robespierre on Fri May 31, 2013 at 11:43:04 AM PDT

  •  And if the company buying Smithfield was e.g. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mikey, HamdenRice, Ajipon

    Canadian your reaction would have been the same? It's not like Smithfield doesn't engage in industrial farming already. In the absence of any evidence that the company buying it violated smth, it sounds that your reasons for opposition has to do with the country of origin or skin color of the buyers.

  •  Houston, we have a problem. /nt (0+ / 0-)
  •  You all understand (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ajipon, HamdenRice

    That China is a country full of individual people and businesses with a variety of motivations and desires, rather than a singular monomaniacal entity dedicated to realizing your worst fears, right?

    •  You know that, I know that, but... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ajipon

      there are a ton of people in this thread who don't know that.

      I've read the phrases, like the Chinese are our enemies, or let's starve the Chinese, etc. in this thread and for most readers it just goes right over their heads and they cheer enthusiastically.

JekyllnHyde, Alumbrados, paradox, Sylv, Radiowalla, hester, melo, Christin, importer, tiggers thotful spot, Gooserock, artr2, mimi, PeterHug, Bob Love, Emerson, Shockwave, Minnesota Deb, jazzizbest, hyperstation, eeff, cskendrick, Wee Mama, susakinovember, Agathena, chuckvw, barath, samddobermann, ivote2004, Ignacio Magaloni, Cedwyn, MrSandman, emmasnacker, TexDem, pat bunny, yet another liberal, renaissance grrrl, riverlover, zerelda, randallt, Hillbilly Dem, JayDean, Steven D, Sassy, Gowrie Gal, 3goldens, ichibon, chimene, corvo, offred, run around, ChemBob, boofdah, bleeding blue, where4art, Burned, Overseas, blue jersey mom, Savvy813, WisePiper, Ekaterin, Jim R, Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse, profundo, Yellow Canary, cookseytalbott, AoT, KenBee, The Wizard, blueoasis, NBBooks, MJ via Chicago, global citizen, StrayCat, 4Freedom, Rosaura, sceptical observer, vivian darkbloom, CA Nana, James Hepburn, fiddlingnero, shaharazade, Statusquomustgo, DanC, Bernie68, markthshark, Little, One Pissed Off Liberal, Cronesense, rchipevans, camlbacker, ksp, SharonColeman, Debs2, devis1, Wino, FishOutofWater, Matt Z, deepeco, Kentucky Kid, US Blues, cyncynical, mudslide, SeaTurtle, gchaucer2, carpunder, on the cusp, JDWolverton, JeffW, GAS, wayoutinthestix, OleHippieChick, Sixty Something, Involuntary Exile, elwior, Cat Servant, Lujane, Ocelopotamus, Troubadour, squarewheel, JBL55, LaFeminista, maggiejean, MufsMom, zmom, greengemini, JesseCW, petral, kevinpdx, Shelley99, rebel ga, citisven, Just Bob, LaughingPlanet, serendipityisabitch, gramofsam1, mookins, gulfgal98, pixxer, Puddytat, Betty Pinson, orlbucfan, Actbriniel, slice, Wisdumb, Maximilien Robespierre, Bluefin, StateofEuphoria, slowbutsure, Hopeful Skeptic, vahana, freesia, takatobimasu, Mollywog, smiley7, marleycat, thomask, createpeace, stevie avebury, Marihilda, cactusgal, SteelerGrrl, too many people, DRo, SouthernLiberalinMD, IowaBiologist, daysey, Eowyn9, anodnhajo, Williston Barrett, greenbastard, Siri, IndieGuy, turn blue, barkingcat, martinjedlicka, Darryl House, BusyinCA, arizonablue, FrY10cK, Glen The Plumber, AZ Sphinx Moth, peptabysmal, nuclear winter solstice, Lily O Lady, Chaddiwicker, nomandates, John Crapper, Dr Erich Bloodaxe RN, SanFernandoValleyMom, goodpractice, gypsytoo, Alhambra, howabout, Homer177, northerntier, JKTownsend, Patango, Jason Hackman, RUNDOWN

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site