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There is very little new about this NSA "scandal". This was widely reported starting back in 2002 when it was discovered that they had set up this program without any oversight... "Warrantless Wiretapping". Remember?

Here is an article that pretty much has everything except the program name "PRISM" in it from May 2006.

The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.
The NSA program reaches into homes and businesses across the nation by amassing information about the calls of ordinary Americans — most of whom aren't suspected of any crime. This program does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations. But the spy agency is using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity, sources said in separate interviews.

In my opinion, Glenn Greenwald has had an agenda for some years now... not sure what it is exactly... but it isn't as pristine as some people are making it out to be. I am not the only one that shares this opinion. Here is an opinion piece by Bob Cesca that I think is entirely on point.

I’m going to put it all out there and let the chips fall where they may: I’m increasingly convinced that Glenn Greenwald’s reporting on the NSA story is tainted by his well-known agenda, leading him to make broad claims for the purposes of inciting outrage. Yes, this is only a theory. But there continues to be a growing number of questions key to the NSA surveillance story that remain unanswered by Greenwald.

Greenwald has flat out refused to offer any sort of revisions or clarifications on his reporting, even though many of the questions have come from other publications and other NSA sources. And that strongly indicates to me that he’s sticking with his reporting and refuses to shed any more light — transparency, if you will — onto some of the rough edges that continue to be uncovered by various other outlets, including CNET, TechCrunch, TPM, The New York Times, ZDNet, the Los Angeles Times and so forth.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I've wondered the same thing. (9+ / 0-)

    I've said in the past that it was probably due, in part, to Bush fatigue. There were sooo many things to complain about with Bush, that this was just a tiny sliver.  Also, Obama was supposed to be 'better', but that still doesn't explain the whole meltdown over something everyone has known about for years. And years.

    "In 20 years, the GOP will be small enough to drown in a bathtub." - me

    by estamm on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 06:37:38 AM PDT

  •  Just wait until they re-air The Sopranos (6+ / 0-)

    series finale, this place is going to go ballistic.

  •  why now? because . . . (3+ / 0-)

    this time it's OUR side doing it.

    And it hurts for some people to lose their naivete.

  •  Because (7+ / 0-)

    we're told to "chill the fuck out, Obama's got this."

    And then we're told that Obama has absolutely no power to  rein in the abuses of the national security monster.

    Those two premises cannot be reconciled.

    What are you doing to fight the dangerous and counterproductive error of treating dirtbag terrorist criminals as though they were comic book supervillains? I can't believe we still have to argue this shit, let alone on Daily Kos.

    by happymisanthropy on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 06:47:09 AM PDT

  •  Greenwald is a well known quantity (12+ / 0-)

    if he could get some inside-government agent to comment on the record that Obama separated the White House trash in recyclable and non-recyclable bins he'd gin up a low-budget "documentary/powerpoint show" about "THE US GOVERNMENT SECRETLY PLANNING TO REINTRODUCE SEGREGATION" and people that make their living desperately trying to remain relevant in the politco-tainment industry would cross-post it to every blog and social media outlet they can find.

    It is the perpetual outrage machine industry that circulates, cross-references and counter-props each other up to try and attract more eyeballs to their recycled indignation.  He;s not alone, the right-wing does the same thing for the same reason.

    There are plenty of them here on Kos.  There are plenty that make the rounds on Tier-II talk shows, little-read blogs and 30-second spot appearances around the country.  

    It all starts with some MASSIVE (and I use that term loosely)expose, over-use of the term "whistleblower" that really means "anyone that agreed to talk to me", Conspiracy rationalization about how why the reason no one actually gives a shit just PROVES how nefarious this is, ominous hints that whatever latest nugget of poutrage is "just the tip of the iceberg", and then a sales pitch telling you that you can get ALL THE DETAILS in their latest self-published book that they are hawking off their website.


    Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

    by Wisper on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 06:56:44 AM PDT

    •  The world isn't yawning. n/t (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Crider, terrybuck

      The Americas greatest political dynasty...the Kaan

      by catilinus on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 07:08:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not when its still (re-)BREAKING (4+ / 0-)

        The world wasn't yawning in 2002 when this was all OMG! OHNOEZ!!just like now.... and then what happened by the time 2003 rolled around?   or 2004 (when the evil author of that oppressive garotting of liberty was re-elected by a wider margin then his first election)?   ... or 2005... or 2006.. or 2007..or 2008.. or 2009.. or 2010.. or 2011... or 2012....

        and even now, in the blazing heat of all this hair-on-fire, the polls are already showing mixed levels of giving a shit amongst the non-political junkies....

        Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

        by Wisper on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 07:17:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The revelations of universal spying on truely (0+ / 0-)

          unprecedented universal scale across the globe is a new event in world history, and the world will react to it...whether or not you wish it to or you think it is unfair.

          The Americas greatest political dynasty...the Kaan

          by catilinus on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 07:36:07 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  okay (0+ / 0-)

            I have no opinion on the fairness or lack thereof regarding the world's reaction.

            I will be right here along with everyone else ready to witness this global reaction to the new event of world history.  

            I can't wait.  I hope its better then the world history reaction to GITMO, or GWOT, or Drones, or Pre-emptive War or Abu Ghraib, or Enron, or the Bank Scandals, or the Foreclosure Scandals or all the BR3AKING!1! NEWZ that Bradley Manning will be thinking about for the rest of life in his jail cell.

            Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

            by Wisper on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 07:45:28 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Hopefully it will be enough to stop the (0+ / 0-)


              The Americas greatest political dynasty...the Kaan

              by catilinus on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 07:50:39 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Has anything in history ever stopped the (0+ / 0-)


                •  I cant even keep track of all the juggernauts (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  hooper, Eyesbright

                  Im supposed to be vigilantly guarding against.

                  I think this one is tyranny... or fascism.. or something.

                  I suspect this will go the same way as video surveillance in the UK.  That tyrannically oppressive fascist regime in London that brazenly sets up a government designed, built, funded, managed and operated system to LITERALLY spy on every citizen....  

                    ...and which at last poll has the support of 76% of the citizens, with 69% of them calling for MORE CCTV cameras.

                  Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

                  by Wisper on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 08:24:45 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

  •  Keep it up. (9+ / 0-)

    Trash the whistleblowers and the honest journalists who report on them.  Keep tying the Democratic Party to the NSA all in the name of political "pragmatism."

    You'll soon find that the overwhelming majority of Americans hate this snooping, especially the young.

    Why do you think Roger Ailes is featuring anti-NSA commentators like NSA leaker William Binney (who was also on Democracy Now) while MSDNC is pushing the odious Cheneyite, Hayden?

    What irony.  You defend these programs with every ridiculous argument in the book because you think it helps Democrats.  In reality, you're screwing the party.

    Check out this Time poll reported this morning on MSDNC:

    Fifty-four percent of respondents said the leaker, Edward Snowden, 29, did a “good thing” in releasing information about the government programs, which collect phone, email, and Internet search records in an effort, officials say, to prevent terrorist attacks. Just 30 percent disagreed.

    But an almost identical number of Americans —  53 percent —  still said he should be prosecuted for the leak, compared to 28% who said he should not. Americans aged 18 to 34 break from older generations in showing far more support for Snowden’s actions. Just 41 percent of that cohort say he should face charges, while 43 percent say he should not. Just 19 percent of that age group say the leak was a “bad thing.

    •  53 percent saying he should be prosecuted is a big (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      deal. And your argument about the young in favor falls flat when 41 percent, as opposed to 43 percent who disagree, say he should face charges.

      I don't think, even most of the people in this community who feel that this scandal is rehashing of old news even think he should face charges. The majority of the American populace view Snowden much more sternly than even many criticizing him here do.


      •  and this is the highwater mark (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        54% think he did a good thing... in the midst of wall-to-wall hair-on-fire cable news feeding frenzy, the highest this is getting is 54%.

        Think of where it will be in a month... or 3 months... or for the 2014 elections, or when ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz.......

        Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

        by Wisper on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 08:47:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  It's documentary proof (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Just like everyone knew the USA was the one conducting drone strikes in Yemen while the Yemeni president claimed credit for them—wasn't until Manning and Wikileaks that there was hard documentary evidence.

    Anonymous sources leave room for doubt. Reporters' words alone don't have the same impact.

    A reporter exposed Abu Graib torture well before the photos came out, but it wasn't until they did that many people cared.

    Also, accusing Glenn Greenwald of having an "agenda" without being able to name it is some of the weakest sauce I've see here in a while. His agenda is your freedom, though you refuse to accept the help.

    Government and laws are the agreement we all make to secure everyone's freedom.

    by Simplify on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 06:57:38 AM PDT

    •  yes (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      And it's less about doubt than the fact that the Supreme Court's position has long been that unconstitutional government programs only become unconstitutional by magical transmutation at the point where one individual person collects proof that they, personally were harmed by it.

      If the NYPD is undetectably breaking into people's apartments when they're at work and rifling through their shit, and the NYPD admits that it's happening, SCOTUS will happily agree that somebody is having their constitutional rights violated, but until they have a name, and that name spends 100 grand on a lawyer and comes to see them, they don't care.

      In 2002 (or 1994, really, ECHELON didn't start with Bush) it didn't matter that the NSA was violating the constitution, because as long as the details of exactly how they were violating it stayed secret, they were safe in the Article III Phantom Zone where the constitution doesn't apply.

  •  (rolls eyes) (7+ / 0-)

    Man, some of you just can't stop yourselves, can you? Just keep slinging variations of the same shit until one of those variations fails to slide down the wall into a stinky pile of goo.

    I got news for you--people were all over this Daily Banter bullshit yesterday, asking why Bart Gellman just can't seem to stop his selective reporting:

    As we wrote a couple of days ago in our article “From the Isle of Denial…,” Cesca’s factual arguments rely on the tech companies denial to publicly disclose a top-secret program.  To follow up on the public denials, we reported that the Washington Post, the New York Times and other news outlets weren’t toting Facebook’s or Google’s public statements.  On June 9th, Barton Gellman and others from the Washington Post stated:
       One top-secret document obtained by The Post described it as “Collection directly from the servers of these U.S. Service Providers: Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, AOL, Skype, YouTube, Apple.”
       Intelligence community sources said that this description, although inaccurate from a technical perspective, matches the experience of analysts at the NSA. From their workstations anywhere in the world, government employees cleared for PRISM access may “task” the system and receive results from an Internet company without further interaction with the company’s staff.

    So, what does Bob Cesca release for a second time?  He doubles down and recycle the same arguments he made earlier in the week and continues to make this an issue solely about Glenn Greenwald.  

    Y'all are simply going to have to do better than "Reporter Bias" if you want to be convincing. This is not about the reporter or the leaker, it's about THE NSA.

    "The “Left” is NOT divided on the need to oppose austerity and the Great Betrayal. The Third Way is not left or center or even right. It is Wall Street on the Potomac."--Bill Black

    by lunachickie on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 07:02:56 AM PDT

    •  All the while (0+ / 0-)

      Rand Paul is fundraising for his Presidential Bid. This issue will rise again in 2016.

      The real truth of the matter is that there is no chance that any President can get this thing turned around.

  •  Maybe someday issues like global climate (5+ / 0-)

    change will also - for gawd only knows what reason or based on what trigger - finally gain a little bit of traction in the overall scheme of things.

    Which will be a good thing.

    Until the naysayers like this diarist comes along and says "WTF, didn't we know all this way back in '88?"

    Well sure we did.  But why can't we just be happy somebody is * finally * paying attention?

    •  The diarist is a Global Warming denialist? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      I despise denialists, so please show me the proof of your claim.

      •  I made no such claim. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wilderness voice, terrybuck

        Not sure where how you got that from my post - I was just comparing the two issues, which have both been languishing in obscurity and puzzling over how when one breaks through, all kinds of concern trolls pop up saying "what's the big deal, didn't we know this long ago?"

        as compared to a more sensible or gracious response like " although we knew all this long ago, thank god people are finally paying attention!"

  •  Brits Broke the Story Not Greenwald (4+ / 0-)

    if I recall correctly.

    The leaker is a Paulist libertarian who worked inside the system for years. Maybe he waited till now because he wants a new congress.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 07:10:58 AM PDT

  •  This cheerleading diary is odious (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Simplify, Deward Hastings, Joieau

    I'm not on your side. I don't want a national security state. I'm not afraid of the terrorists, but I am afraid of the reach of the DHS apparatus and I'm sickened by its supporters.

    By the way, your 'PRISM' example article from 2006 is off the mark. PRISM is not about collecting phone records. 

    "Societies strain harder and harder to sustain the decadent opulence of the ruling class, even as it destroys the foundations of productivity and wealth." — Chris Hedges

    by Crider on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 07:13:21 AM PDT

  •  Not new to me (7+ / 0-)

    Did I think the US government could find out what phone numbers I was dialing if they wanted to? Of course I did. Anyone who says they didn't is either naive or lying.

    I think part of the new interest is there is a "hero" to attach to the cause, as flaky, faulted and misguided as he is.

    But in the end, I'm glad it's up for discussion again; everyone had forgotten about it. Just wish we could do it without all the ZOMGs.

  •  Greenwald has set himself up as some type of Obama (4+ / 0-)

    Obama nemesis, where he attacks everything the President does from calling the Affordable Care Act "sleazy" and criticizing it at every turn, to joining Republicans in suggesting the President did something wrong on Benghazi. I do believe he considers himself the Obama opposer in Chief.

    Still, although he has fought against the President, ever since he first entered office, Barack Obama is still President. So there must be a big fail in there somewhere.

  •  Why, because it can be used to attack the (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stonedoubt, jan4insight, Eyesbright

    president. Some, a minority, are legitimately concerned but the loudest squealers are the same set at the center of every single 'scandal'.  

    This issue will be handled much like the rest. The president will explain the facts, continue to work on the more important issues and wait for time to quell the hyperventilation.

    For those that are honestly concerned I would say, that if you were able to survive these programs under the Cheney/Bush regime, then you'll be more than OK under this one.

  •  The real story is that Congress critters are too (0+ / 0-)

    busy fundraising to keep up with any abuse of national security for the public. How many had to be "read in" on the program when it hit the news? Why weren't they keeping up with this if its that important?

    There were some members like Leahy and Wyden who showed concern but the majority of legislators seem to be asleep at the wheel.

    Lawrence O'Donnel did a good interview with one of Snoden's friends. It was particularly interesting because she was an attorney and she choose her words so carefully. She realized how everything she said would be judged.
    It may seem like a dull interview but in reflection, you can see how skilled O'Donnel is at this. I learned a lot from it.

    In the end, I hope the public realizes that this guy could be anybody's very bright, talented, idealistic son. He did what he thought was right but his judgment may have needed some maturing. Congress may be looking for a scalp in order to draw attention away from their laziness at keeping up with important topic.

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