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I made the mistake of watching a bit of Joe "I am not a racist" Scarborough this morning. So is he naive? uninformed? deliberately ignorant? or consciously racist?

In a very reasonable tone of voice, he asked, over and over: Why is it such a big deal to ask for a photo ID to vote? After all, you have to have photo ID to board a plane.

Think about it Joe, what segments of our society are less likely than you to ever board a plane?

The driver's license is the most readily available form of photo ID. Who is most likely to have a driver's license?

Easy -- someone who has enough money to own a car and, in most states, to buy mandatory insurance. Certainly people in suburban and rural areas are more likely to drive. They are also more likely to be white.

Who is less likely than Joe Scarborough to have a driver's license?

Old people (like my late mother-in-law, who followed politics closely and voted twice for Obama while she was in a nursing home)

Disabled people and the chronically ill and homebound

Folks in big cities, especially the urban poor (which means, of course, people who are more likely than Joe to be black or brown)

But, as Joe would point out, there are other forms of ID available.

Many of these voter ID laws not only require a photo ID, but also an ID with a birthdate and an expiration date. That leaves out most workplace IDs, student IDs, library cards, etc.

States also issue photo IDs that are not driver's licenses. All you need to get one is a certified copy of your birth certificate. How hard can that be?

Well, it costs money -- money that may be desperately needed to by food or medicine, or to pay the rent.

And if a person does not live in the county where he or she was born, it requires the knowledge and ability to contact the proper office and pay the fee.

When I needed a certified BC several years ago for another purpose, a phone call to the county clerk where I was born was not sufficient. I had to either request it in person (requiring that I take time off work during the clerk's regular office hours and pay for gas to drive there -- but if I could drive there, I would already have a photo ID!), or send a notarized letter requesting the BC, along with a money order for the fee (so there was a fee for the notary, and a fee for the money order, and the postage).

Gee, who would that discourage? Who would find that so burdensome that they might just give up in frustration? Let's see -- the elderly, the disabled, and the poor.

Anyone who denies that these voter ID laws are calculated to suppress voter turnout and that these laws disproportionately affect people of color is either lying or deluding themselves.

I know that I am preaching to the choir here, but doubt that Morning Joe would get my point if I tried to contact him. As long as he ignores real world facts, he can salve his conscience by telling himself he is not a racist, just because he does not overtly want to harm people of color. By that calculus, Paula Deen is not a racist either.

Originally posted to aging exhippie on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 08:57 AM PDT.

Also republished by Community Spotlight.

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Comment Preferences

  •  good thing Sen. Davis was more than up to the (19+ / 0-)

    task of patiently debunking (even reframing!) his questions.

    This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

    by mallyroyal on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 09:12:54 AM PDT

  •  Morning Joe is a pompous ass. (32+ / 0-)

    He really annoys me.  Smugness just oozes out of of him.  

    My impression is that his positions shift in the wind depending on who he is pandering to.  He will take reasonable (moderate) positions for a few days, and then shift back to the Republican talking points.  I'd have much more respect for him if he adopted consistently conservative positions.

    He also suffers from Conservative Superiority Syndrome (named by me), a disease which causes conservatives to be so sure they are correct that they don't have to listen to anyone else.  This is most evident when he is talking to women, whom he consistently interrupts (part of the syndrome is lack of respect for women).

    There are conservatives worth paying attention to, but he doesn't make the list.

  •  I've written at least a dozen comments about this (26+ / 0-)

    Ever since I went to NJ to help my elderly Dad, wound up staying, then my drivers license turned into a pumpkin while I was there, and they wouldn't accept my old dl at NJ MVC as ID (It's EXPIRED, you know, it doesn't exist any more) and I needed a birf certificate, an original SS card and some piece of mail with my address on it.

    VA wanted the same sort of notarized request, and it had to specify how I identified myself to the notary, so I was back in the Catch-22, but fortunately they hadda loophole that allowed my dad to request a copy with only a photocopy of HIS ID.

    Then it came to the cost, they wanted $20, and said it would take "up to three weeks" but for an extra fee, I could have it delivered in three days for about $58!

    An additional issue these douchebags like Joe don't seem to get is that there are a lot of people, mostly old, who were born out in the country someplace and the only birth record that exists is an entry in a mid-wifes' notebook!

    "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

    by leftykook on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 09:26:13 AM PDT

    •  Yea, if you were delivered at home (8+ / 0-)

      by a midwife....

      You can not vote.    AssWipes

      In their eyes there's something lacking What they need's a damn good whacking.

      by third Party please on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 04:00:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Elections are held ... (0+ / 0-)

      at either 2 year or 4 year intervals. I've lived in several states and never had a problem obtaining ID, registering as a Democrat, and voting in elections.

      A waist is a terrible thing to mind.

      by edg on Sat Jun 29, 2013 at 04:05:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        That's certainly lucky for you.  I've had similar experiences.  I, on the other hand, am capable of understanding that others have different life experiences.

        •  Who's disputing that? (0+ / 0-)

          I'm stating that Republicans have been doing this nonsense for 30 years. The Democratic Party could have, over the past 30 years, worked with every American who needed ID to help them get it. Voter ID would thus be a non-issue.

          I understand that others have different life experiences. I would bet that mine differs from yours, as I grew up in public housing in Detroit, MI, joined the US Army at age 17, became a computer nerd, was the first in my family to obtain a bachelor's degree, and have owed 3 businesses.

          But it's time for Democrats to stop complaining about voter ID and do something about it. We've been twiddling our thumbs for 30 years while Republicans have advanced their agenda.

          They are wining the ground battle. What part of that don't you understand?

          A waist is a terrible thing to mind.

          by edg on Sun Jun 30, 2013 at 12:05:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Starting to come around to this idea (0+ / 0-)

            It's interesting that I've heard the idea that Democrats (and really anyone who believes in Democracy) should work to give everyone a photo id.  

            My first thought was ... "well then they win" (i.e. the Republicans stance of we need an ID to vote).  

            But I'm really rethinking that position.  Sometimes you just have to stop banging into the brick wall and go around it.

            I wonder if it's really do-able?  If we try to do it on a state-level basis via the current standard processes and organizations (i.e. DMV, birth certificates, etc), how could we ever get it done.

      •  What does that have to do with what I wrote? (0+ / 0-)

        What does the election interval have to do with what I wrote?

        How long ago did you move from one state to another? The phenomenon I'm reporting is relatively new, have you tried to get a driver's license lately?  Have you tried to get a certified copy of your birf certificate lately?

        It's nice that you're a fortunate person with either luck or plenty of money to not have to worry about paying $58 for a damned birf certificate in order to pay ANOTHER $50 for a Driver's License so that you can VOTE....

        Sure sounds like a poll tax to me!

        Sure sounds like Voter Suppression to me!

        "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

        by leftykook on Sat Jun 29, 2013 at 08:41:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Moves & Costs (0+ / 0-)

          I moved from Michigan to Georgia in 1973. Then back to Michigan in 1976. To Maryland in 1984. To Virginia in 1990. To Arizona in 2004.

          Arizona state ID cards are $12. For those 65 or older or receiving SSI, they are free.

          Got my Arizona driver's license in 2004 for $15. It is valid until 2020. Had I been 50 or older, it would have been just $10.

          Got my Detroit, Michigan certified birth certificate in 2005 for $20. Had I been a senior, it would have cost just $7.

          When my mother-in-law came to live with us in late 2005, we needed her certified birth certificate, so we got it by mail for $12 from Virginia.

          A waist is a terrible thing to mind.

          by edg on Sun Jun 30, 2013 at 12:00:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Oh, and .... (0+ / 0-)

          I just confirmed the costs. They are still the same today in Arizona and Virginia as they were in 2004/2005.

          A waist is a terrible thing to mind.

          by edg on Sun Jun 30, 2013 at 12:08:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Cost are not the only issue (0+ / 0-)

            The specifications of what you have to produce to even order a birf certificate  or apply for a driver's license have tightened because of 9-11 bullshit enacted while Butch was Preznit.

            You may have looked at a web page and ckd prices, but apparently you haven't checked the fine print, and most of your moves (maybe ALL of them, even the 2004 move) weren't covered by the change in Federal law where most of this bullshit begins.

            You also don't begin to address to issue of elderly and very poor people with your "Ehhh, I didn't have any problem, so there's no problem" nonsense, do you think I'm making this shit up?

            The feds are demanding that the states use certain standards of source documentation that THOUSANDS of American citizens who've been voting just fine for years with a voter registration card, a SS card and a piece of mail with their address on it, and now they can't vote at all because the only record of their birth (the one they used to enlist to fight in WW2) is a BAPTISM record from their church or something else equally unacceptable.

            "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

            by leftykook on Sun Jun 30, 2013 at 06:39:32 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Your whining doesn't help. (0+ / 0-)

              We've had 30 years to do something about it. Even if things got worse in the waning years of the Bush Misadministration, there is no excuse for whining. Bush has been out of office for going on 5 years.

              There are far, far more insidious schemes to disenfranchise voters. Why are you wasting so much time crying about voter ID when we've had 30 year to work on fixing the shortage?

              I mean, seriously, WW2 veterans with only baptismal records? How many of them are still alive? Ten or twenty?

              I live in Arizona. Freakin' Arizona, the place where rightwing nutjobs rule. And our voting registration requirements HAVE NOT CHANGED since I registered here in 2004.

              My suggestion to you: Quit whining, get off your tookus, and do something about it. Help an elderly person with no ID get it. Take a veteran to the polls in the next election. Donate time and/or money to one of the several groups that are working to get voter IDs for people without them.

              YOU can make a difference in how much crap the Republicans can heap on us. But idle complaints get us nowhere.

              A waist is a terrible thing to mind.

              by edg on Sun Jun 30, 2013 at 08:31:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Your comment is nonsense (0+ / 0-)

                These voter ID laws are bullshit and you apparently think there's no problem.

                Over and aver again, just because YOU don't have a problem doesn't mean that a substantial number of elderly and poor people, mostly in rural areas, are incapable of getting the documentation AT ALL.

                I'm beginning to think you're one of these Arizonans who sit up late at night worrying about "illegals" voting, since you seem to think these laws are just great, there's nothing to see here, move along now....

                "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

                by leftykook on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 04:47:02 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Actually, yours is the nonsensical comment. (0+ / 0-)

                  I never said there was no problem. I said quit trying to use the problem as a political wedge and FIX IT!!!

                  I'm beginning to think that you just don't care about the issue except as something to whine about. And your smear about me and "illegals" is uncalled for and unprofessional.

                  Get thee out to those rural areas and help those elderly and poor people get documentation and either get to the polls or vote by absentee ballot.

                  Why are you so insistent on letting Republicans win? So you can sit there whining about "it's too hard boo hoo"?

                  A waist is a terrible thing to mind.

                  by edg on Mon Jul 01, 2013 at 01:09:01 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

  •  Oh, yeah. The Repugs know just what they're (13+ / 0-)

    doing here--and so does Joe Scab.  He's hard to take for more than five minutes.  He did get some pushback from Donnie Deutch on the ridiculous premise that this isn't voter suppression.  Everyone knows just what it is...

    If the plutocrats begin the program, we will end it. -- Eugene Debs.

    by livjack on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 09:28:16 AM PDT

  •  Caedy had to replace an expired license (16+ / 0-)

    just to get on a Greyhound bus to travel to her Mom's for her Nephew's birthday next week. Her mom lost her birth certificate. New one sent from out of state: $45. Replacing her driver's licence: $70!! We didn't have $70 this week, not and be able to eat as well. She got a state ID for $31 so she can go see her nephew on his birthday. Next month she'll save up to get an new driver's licence (we don't have  a car anyway, so not a huge deal, but nice to have in case). That means the $31 will be 'wasted' as the lady at the DMV pointed out to her. It means replacing her licence will cost $146 total instead of $115. But if you don't have the money, you don't have the money. Getting an ID shouldn't cost as much as a week and a half of groceries, or your electric bill.

    The right to vote should be a right, not a choice between feeding your kids, having power, or voting.

    "Madness! Total and complete madness! This never would've happened if the humans hadn't started fighting one another!" Londo Mollari

    by FloridaSNMOM on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 09:36:55 AM PDT

  •  SCOTUS first mistake (10+ / 0-)

    White privilege--either deliberate or not--blinded them to the real life struggles that a substantial portion of the voting population faces. I sincerely hope that a challenge to the Indiana decision is forthcoming.

    Keep fightin' for freedom and justice, beloveds, but don't you forget to have fun doin' it. Lord, let your laughter ring forth. Be outrageous, ridicule the fraidy-cats, rejoice in all the oddities that freedom can produce.---Molly Ivins

    by never forget 2000 on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 09:47:07 AM PDT

  •  Hey, Joe. Boarding a plane is not a right, (19+ / 0-)

    voting is-for every American.

    It's your victories that give you your confidence but it's your setbacks that give you your character. -Van Jones

    by Oke on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 09:58:06 AM PDT

    •  ...who is old enough, and has never been convicted (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      of a felony.

      And is not currently incarcerated ( @ least in MA).

      Which sure sounds like a privilege that can be rescinded, not a right that can't.

      •  In that light then let's look at the right to bear (6+ / 0-)

        arms. It is every American's right. If I commit a felony and go to prison I have made choices that usurps that right, maybe temporarily, maybe forever.

        There are privileges that come with rights, abuse of those privileges can take away ones right to a certain thing, thus the privileges that go along with it.

        Joe is a white, privileged, out of touch with the real world, jerk

        It's your victories that give you your confidence but it's your setbacks that give you your character. -Van Jones

        by Oke on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 10:43:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  No constitutional right to vote (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SottoVoce, FreeWoman19, NancyK, janmtairy

      and about time there was.

      “Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

      by RUNDOWN on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 10:29:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So the 15th Amendment (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        The Dude 415
        Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
        Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation
        in the text, even though it says "the right of citizens to vote" doesn't really mean it's a right?

        liberal bias = failure to validate or sufficiently flatter the conservative narrative on any given subject

        by RockyMtnLib on Sat Jun 29, 2013 at 08:33:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not Explicitly (0+ / 0-)

          Here's probably a better explanation:

          “Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

          by RUNDOWN on Sat Jun 29, 2013 at 10:45:48 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Disagree. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            The right to vote is just as explicit in the Constitution as every other right that's in there.

            Every amendment expanding voting rights specifically says the right of the citizens to vote shall not be denied or abridged on account of race/gender/etc.  

            This is in line with the way the rest of our rights are laid out in the Constitution, where, instead of saying that the people are granted these rights, it specifically says they can't be taken away, therefore assuming these rights already exist.

            So the Constitution DOES provide the right to vote.  Saying otherwise is like saying that freedom of speech, religion, etc. aren't explicitly in the Constitution.

            Just because courts have said it's not there doesn't mean it's not.

            •  I tend to agree (0+ / 0-)

              many people believe the same, and floored me at a young age that something so fundamental to democracy wasn't a "explicit" (and Federal) constitutional right - but considering how the SCOTUS has drifted so far to Right field on so many issues - this is no different.

              I mean really - corporations as people?

              Another is that there is no "explicit" right to "making money" - though some construe that to the "pursuit of happiness".

              I guess I'll loose some of my cynicism on this issue when I start seeing SCOTUS rulings striking down some of these voter suppression laws - and the associated "poll taxes" they bring.

              But judging by what we've seen recently, not much chance with this court.

              “Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

              by RUNDOWN on Sat Jun 29, 2013 at 04:14:38 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  The challenge we have is that the overwhelming (13+ / 0-)

    majority of Americans think voters should show a state issued picture ID, like a drivers license, at the polls when they arrive to vote. I am now routinely being asked to show a picture ID to enter office buildings (above the lobby floor) in Chicago and New York. That's why I like the programs Dems are launching to help the elderly, poor, and non-drivers to obtain a state issued ID. Having an ID is helpful beyond voting and I think that will create good will for the Democratic Party.

    "let's talk about that"

    by VClib on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 10:11:59 AM PDT

  •  I would find it insulting to be asked for (11+ / 0-)

    an ID after all the years of voting.  I watched the show and just had to change the channel after he said "How hard could it be to get an ID" so many times.  Also tired of Harold Ford always walking that line between what he thinks is right or left.  He knows there are old people born at home with no records of birth available.  I've lived in three places and all I had to show was proof of where I lived and sometimes bills paid in my name to register.

    Do not adjust your mind, there is a flaw in reality.

    by Shrew in Shrewsbury on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 12:14:28 PM PDT

  •  i'm on my 3rd last name (18+ / 0-)

    pretty sure that ass has always been a scarborough.

    birth certificates, marriage certificates, and divorce decrees cost time and money to get.

    i'm sick and tired of explaining to people, and even to democrats, what an unfair burden voter id is on women, let alone on poor women.

    "...i also also want a legally binding apology." -George Rockwell

    by thankgodforairamerica on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 02:51:08 PM PDT

  •  Staggering How Much Voter ID Would Lower Turnout (18+ / 0-)

    From a Brennan Center For Justice report

    The 11 percent of eligible voters who lack the required photo ID must travel to a designated government office to obtain one. Yet many citizens will have trouble making this trip. In the 10 states with restrictive voter ID laws:
     •Nearly 500,000 eligible voters do not have access to a vehicle and live more than 10 miles from the nearest state ID-issuing office open more than two days a week. Many of them live in rural areas with dwindling public transportation options.
     •More than 10 million eligible voters live more than 10 miles from their nearest state ID-issuing office open more than two days a week.
     •1.2 million eligible black voters and 500,000 eligible Hispanic voters live more than 10 miles from their nearest ID-issuing office open more than two days a week. People of color are more likely to be disenfranchised by these laws since they are less likely to have photo ID than the general population.
     •Many ID-issuing offices maintain limited business hours. For example, the office in Sauk City, Wisconsin is open only on the fifth Wednesday of any month. But only four months in 2012 — February, May, August, and October — have five Wednesdays. In other states — Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, and Texas — many part-time ID-issuing offices are in the rural regions with the highest concentrations of people of color and people in poverty.

    More than 1 million eligible voters in these states fall below the federal poverty line and live more than 10 miles from their nearest ID-issuing office open more than two days a week. These voters may be particularly affected by the significant costs of the documentation required to obtain a photo ID. Birth certificates can cost between $8 and $25. Marriage licenses, required for married women whose birth certificates include a maiden name, can cost between $8 and $20. By comparison, the notorious poll tax — outlawed during the civil rights era — cost $10.64 in current dollars.

    The result is plain: Voter ID laws will make it harder for hundreds of thousands of poor Americans to vote. They place a serious burden on a core constitutional right that should be universally available to every American citizen.

    Of course you do need ID to get on a plane so we can all just ignore the above.
  •  I guess he can't fathom (10+ / 0-)

    the idea of an indirect poll-tax

    "Labor was the first price, the original purchase - money that was paid for all things" -- Adam Smith

    by HugoDog on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 03:00:56 PM PDT

  •  If you want to see a "reasonable" conservative (25+ / 0-)

    pro-Voter ID Republican fly into a sputtering rage?

    Tell them that all forms of mandated by law electoral IDs must then be 100% free. Else, they are an illegal poll tax.
    You can't just prove a wingnut wrong, you have to make it hurt when he or she overreaches. This is not a fight they want to have to fight. It's reasonable, and it makes them put up or shut up about their real priority in having a voter ID law. Is it about voter "fraud" or is it about denying people you don't want to vote their vote.

    Propose a free ID and the emperor has no clothes.

    This hits their scam to deny people access right in their winger bottom lines in another area of priority: to avoid raising taxes at all costs.

    Wingnut Governors and blood-red legislatures make bank off of fees. So do so-called "moderate" Republicans who buy into the anti-tax at all costs cult.

    When William Weld came into office in Massachusetts in the early 1990's on an anti-tax cultist's plank, no fee was too petty or small to be hiked. It was something I always told myself to remember in the future. The more anti-tax a Republican is, the more likely you are to see everything they can fudge as 'not a tax' being hiked up to the heavens.

    So many anti-tax Conservative Governors spike fees and say that it is okay because fees are not taxes they cannot afford to have something that they use as a cash cow become a freebie because of their zeal to deny black people their right to vote for the sin of not voting conservatively.

    I am a Loco-Foco. I am from the Elizabeth Warren wing of the Democratic Party.

    by LeftHandedMan on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 03:17:54 PM PDT

    •  Don't get me wrong (14+ / 0-)

      you still fight voter ID laws, but in states where they have been rammed in, or could be, you have to find a way to make this a fight that they don't really want to have.

      The public has to see this as always being a ratfuck. The GOP is good at muddying the waters for low-information voters and the Village courtesans, so, find a way to make it hurt if we can't kill it.

      If we can find a way to make the policy work the exact opposite way they intend it to, or to cost them money, or both, you make this less and less worth it to them.

      A non-profit pro-voting non-partisan charity that has free Voter Photo ID services, oh, and by the way you can register to vote there as well, would be a nightmare for the Right as well.

      Finding ways to put them on the defensive, or to put them in a position to be passing laws that actually blow up in their faces rather than suppress the vote they way they intend it to, has to be a back-up plan with the Supreme Court and hoards of conservative judges around the nation are.

      Even if the only benefit to be gained is that millions of people who are not paying attention and don't get its a scam now get that it is a partisan scam all about denying people their right to vote for who they vote for and who is to blame.

      I am a Loco-Foco. I am from the Elizabeth Warren wing of the Democratic Party.

      by LeftHandedMan on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 03:28:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  wish i could rec this INFINITY TIMES (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Val, Chi, Matt Z

      the only problem is, the law that made it easy to challenge poll taxes quickly is part of what was gutted in the Voting Rights Act decision

      Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
      Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights for support in dealing with grief.

      by TrueBlueMajority on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 08:36:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  To elaborate one point. (12+ / 0-)

    If you don't have a car and only have a bus pass or metro pass, both of which cost money, you might have to spend an entire day getting to and from the the DMV, assuming you have all documentation, and spending many hours standing on corners, and or in metro stations, all the while running down the amount left on your bus pass or metro card.
    Also too taxis are expensive.  And Scarborough probably gets a limo pick up paid for by MSNBC so he don't know nothing.

  •  I wanted to scream while watching this AM. (12+ / 0-)

    This isn't entirely about an ID as Joe was saying.  But as I remember in some jurisdictions student IDs weren't acceptable.

    Did he miss the long 8 hour lines in minority precincts in Fla?  Did he miss that early voting was shortened by a republican governor?

  •  Yes, you did. (4+ / 0-)
    I made the mistake of watching a bit of Joe "I am not a racist" Scarborough this morning.
    t and r
  •  you're a brave soul, aging exhippie, to watch (5+ / 0-)

    morning joke that long. i can't take it for more than 5 seconds & mr bluezen won't tolerate it at all!

    someone should remind joe scab (love that name, btw -- it sooooo fits) that other countries, like canada, don't have voter registration problems b/c they have independent oversight of every aspect of their elections, & most of the world's democracies have measures in place that negate the necessity to register their citizens -- a number is assigned at birth which automatically becomes active at majority.

  •  In NC parents might lose money, if kids vote (5+ / 0-)

    NC has made it even worse for parent/children.
    They are not only targeting poor people and minorities. They are explicetely targeting Democratic Voters.
    Check out this link.

  •  ...And, it's for a NON-EXISTENT Problem! (9+ / 0-)

    Many thousands of times more votes will be blocked -- "stolen" -- by voter ID laws than will be cast fraudulently under the current, "oath and signature" rules:

    ...[T]he microscopically scrutinized 2004 gubernatorial election in Washington State actually reveals ... though voter fraud does happen, it happens approximately 0.0009% of the time. The similarly closely-analyzed 2004 election in Ohio revealed a voter fraud rate of 0.00004%. National Weather Service data shows that Americans are struck and killed by lightning about as often.*
    •  NOT for a NON-Existent problem (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      nargel, eztempo

      They aren't addressing voter fraud; they are addressing the increase in the number of poor and minority voters.  They are just PRETENDING they are addressing voter fraud.

      "The next time I tell you someone from Texas should not be president of the United States, please, pay attention." Molly Ivins

      by janmtairy on Sat Jun 29, 2013 at 12:05:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  If my father were still alive (8+ / 0-)

    and interested in voting, he wouldn't be able to. He was born at home, in 1918, no doctor. He never had a birth certificate. He gave up his driver's license when he became blind, and hadn't left the country in so long his passport was long expired.

    Even though he's gone, I'm still pissed off for what he so unfairly wouldn't be able to do if he were here.

    I’m tired of sacrificing lives on the altar of the Second Amendment. - Mark Damico

    by Hastur on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 04:49:32 PM PDT

  •  So, for all the same reasons..... (8+ / 0-)

    I shouldn't have to show ID or jump through hoops to exercise my Second Amendment Rights either, correct?

    Or... is there a double-standard in effect?

    Your hate-mail will be graded.

    by PavePusher on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 04:49:43 PM PDT

  •  Scarborough is a "Son of the South" (6+ / 0-)

    Stated in his own words directly on his show a couple of days ago.
    Which should tell you everything you need to know about his issues when it comes to treating anyone other than WASP's as equals. He doesn't even treat Mika as an equal, his misogyny on Morning Joe is legend.  His opinions always run towards turning back the clock to 1855 or there about, and putting women and people of color back in their place.  

    What you allow, is what will continue.

    by Nebraskablue on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 05:02:02 PM PDT

  •  made same mistake this morning (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    worldlotus, FloridaSNMOM, Matt Z

    got so made, not only at Joe, but his guests, that I changed the channel.  he kept talking about ID and how he is happy the voting rights act is overturned.  But only talks about ID.

    He kept rambling on about id and airports that none of the guest brought up facts as to what has happened in the past.  And what is happening now.  Such as cutting voting hours, reducing number of polling stations, etc.  And then the difficulty of getting ID.

    If I was there I would have called out his total blindness to what is happening.

    "The only person sure of himself is the man who wishes to leave things as they are, and he dreams of an impossibility" -George M. Wrong.

    by statsone on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 06:47:56 PM PDT

  •  The SCOTUS thought that they were clever. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Chi, FloridaSNMOM, Matt Z

    Pit the DOMA against the entire reality of Civil Rights.  I will have my partner.  But will I have my vote??  Silly Congress needs to check out the medications and mental stability of the SCOTUS!  The UN would probably be more effective.

    We are all serving a life sentence in the dungeon of self.  Cyril Connolly

  •  why does anyone still watch morning joke? (6+ / 0-)

    that said, the main reason IDs are a bad idea is that they are not free.  they are the equivalent of a poll tax.

    Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
    Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights for support in dealing with grief.

    by TrueBlueMajority on Fri Jun 28, 2013 at 08:26:06 PM PDT

  •  Joe likes to act like a breathless teen-ager who (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Chi, FloridaSNMOM

    thinks his boyish gee wiz demeanor is enough to justify gutting the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and which was recently renewed by congress so that Southerners can pass legislation openly to suppress votes of African Americans, Hispanics and those who vote Democrat, but just like Lady MacBeth Joe, you can not erase the stain of racism with a shuck and jive and wink like you try to do.

  •  Willful ignorance (4+ / 0-)

    This is one of those issues that makes my blood boil. I've had this conversation so many times I've lost count, and nothing  sinks in or sticks. Lack of mobility, lack of money for a Birth Certificate etc., DMV offices only open during work hours which requires time off, DMV offices located miles away and no transportation to get there. How can a person not see this as a burden? And constantly comparing an ID required for voting to cashing checks or buying cold medicine. Do they not get it that voting is a Constitutional right and is therefore different?
     Scarborough was also wanking about how the South is so different now than in the 60s, so why should they be punished for past sins? Good Gawd........doesn't he get it that they're still trying to keep people from voting even if the tactics now are different? Back in the 60s, they made no bones about what they blacks should vote. Now they're more subtle and try to hide behind the bogus fraud meme, but it's just another way of getting what they want.

  •  GOP efforts to disenfranchise gone beyond DLs (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    worldlotus, Carol in San Antonio

    Some of the states employing voter id laws now are making it harder to get a voter id card than it is to get a drivers license, so his what's the big deal is so 1990's as to be laughable.  The GOP has gone to a whole new level.

    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself - FDR. Obama Nation. -6.13 -6.15

    by ecostar on Sat Jun 29, 2013 at 02:04:03 AM PDT

  •  I gave up on Morning Joe (0+ / 0-)

    long ago...
    I found myself yelling at my TV way to much.

  •  Was this the same show (0+ / 0-)

    where he was comparing the attitudes towards race in the Northeast and Southeast?  My jaw hit the floor when he said something about the South having a deeper understanding of race because of their history.

  •  Joe, like too many of us (0+ / 0-)

    define racism down, just like they define other forms of othering and discrimination down.

    liberal bias = failure to validate or sufficiently flatter the conservative narrative on any given subject

    by RockyMtnLib on Sat Jun 29, 2013 at 09:22:29 AM PDT

  •  I would say voter ID laws are like a poll tax, (0+ / 0-)

    except that they are far, far worse.

    It's like trying to pay a poll tax that the state is doing it's damnedest to refuse.

    Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well-warmed, and well-fed. --Herman Melville

    by ZedMont on Sat Jun 29, 2013 at 11:44:21 AM PDT

  •  Gun permit -- valid ID. What's not - a student ID. (0+ / 0-)

    You cannot get more blatant than that. If you buy a gun, have a gun license or permit, you get to vote.  If you go to school to get educated, apparently not. You might eschew a car like many of my environment-friendly Portland neighbors do. But if you did that in Texas, it wouldn't allow you to vote. If you can't afford a car yet, or are disabled in some way so you can't drive, you're out of luck. You know how voting skews amongst thoes various groups? Yes, it's that blatant.

  •  I think these voter ID laws are here to stay- just (0+ / 0-)

    Like gun laws allowing ridiculously easy access and carriage are here to stay. We just gotta cope with it.
    Emphasis should now be on voter education, registration and GOTV even for the local 'small' elections.
    Dems should beat them at their game

  •  It's not a big deal if you take your freaking (0+ / 0-)

    camera to their house and take their freaking picture. Cameras are portable.

  •  Republicans have been working toward ... (0+ / 0-)

    this holy grail of voter ID for decades. What is your explanation for why Democrats have not spent those decades making sure every voter obtains a birth certificate and photo ID? Had they done so, voter ID would now be a dead issue.

    A waist is a terrible thing to mind.

    by edg on Sat Jun 29, 2013 at 04:02:41 PM PDT

  •  Ignorance is sufficient to get this kind of talk (0+ / 0-)

    though can't discount racism or stupidity as well.

    But MANY middle class or upper middle class Whites DO NOT REALIZE that many city people (except NYC) of lower income do not have a car. They do not understand the HOOPS people have to jump through...or the three buses, say, and the hour it go vote or go from work to vote to home or vice versa. Or go to City Hall or whenever to get ID.

    Such jobs also do not often allow you to make phone calls during the day You don't often sit at a computer. So, if you are lucky LUCKY to even have online access, it is at home. YOu have to have the wearwithal between caring for home and the long hours of work...maybe you work two or even three get phone numbers and call during WORK HOURS to find out how to get ID where to go what you need.

    So phone calls and online access to these people like Joe with smartphones are just as easy as blinking the eyes. It is HOOPS to jump through for other people and the JOes of the world DO NOT GET IT>

    They have jobs they can take off and they still GET PAID. It does not occur to them that many people have low prestige jobs that they can't take off to vote. If they work two jobs they may be at work THE ENTIRE TIME the polls are open, which is why Early (weekend) voting is piviotol for lower income people.

    I swear I have gotten this response from SO MANY and have had to explain EACH thing that could be a barrier. MANY back down from that. They of course argue that the individual is STILL responsible even if it' s harder for them. Then I argue back...

    And say that as an individual, yes, that person is responsible. But states are making rules that effect Groups of poor people, city people, minorities. ADVERSELY and as POLICY it is not just. It is especially venal and low because of the INTENT to disenfranchise, and that they are doing it to people who already have the least power and are the most vulnerable.

    I think one way to reach people in general is to talk about this in terms of CLASS not RACE. The effects of truncating early voting and needing IDs effects people who do not have  help, flexibility or resources...that usually is related to income and/or having connections (help) to get where you need to go. So many students, elders, and city people are disproportionally effected but the common denominator is pretty much, as I see it, class/income...with added components of physical barriers for the elderly and disabled who lack help.

    I do believe that Black people are targetted at least sometimes due to racism but they way the get at Black people is via targetting Black neighborhoods with less voting machines or locations so lines are longer and by loading on the barriers that low income people have (lack of transportation and childcare, working long hours, lack of work flexibility, abilty to make calls or check internet from work and possibly even no internet access at home).

  •  In my opinion (0+ / 0-)

    If voter IDs were a free to all citizens commodity that could easily be picked up at, say, a post office or something similar, maybe this would be less of an issue.  If it were easier to get a copy of one's birth certificate than it currently is, maybe this would be less of an issue.  If this weren't something that, somehow, disenfranchises those most likely to vote Democratic, maybe it wouldn't be much of an issue.  Maybe of various states, like Texas, hadn't started implementing voter ID literally the same day the Supreme Court decision comes down, it'd be less of an issue.

    None of those apply.  It's an issue, and a major one.

    I'm likely making this up as I go along.

    by Anjana on Sat Jun 29, 2013 at 04:52:53 PM PDT

  •  Joe's racism (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    This is about power; in this case, the power of the ballot box.  The Supremes are fulfilling the Southern Stategy, begun in the 80's to marry the corporate wing of the Republican Party with the evangelical racist rural white South.  The creators of this strategy are ruthless people who care only for their corporate bottom line.  They used the wedge issues (abortion, guns, and gays) to cobble together electoral majorities.   George Bush, chosen by the court, appointed more dangerous justices.  
    So, yes, Joe is a racist.  But he is only one of the many racists being manipulated by greedy corporate overlords, who care only for money and power.  

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