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Money swirling into a black hole
That giant sucking sound you hear is the paychecks of around 650,000 civilian Defense Department workers:
Furloughs for Department of Defense civilians begin Monday, a move that amounts to a 20 percent cut in pay for hundreds of thousands of defense workers over the next three months and will disrupt operations at installations around the country, Pentagon officials warn.
It was almost worse—the furloughs will total 11 days per worker, but originally the plan was for a whopping 22 days of furloughs. But a 20 percent pay cut over three months is going to be, for most workers, more than can be made up for by just not saving or by cutting the obvious luxuries. A 20 percent pay cut hurts. Which is what Republicans wanted, to protect corporations from more taxes by hurting working people.

Originally posted to Daily Kos Labor on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 06:57 AM PDT.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  If Only We Had A Political Party For The People (8+ / 0-)

    they could really get popular support for stopping the sequester and it would put pressure on Republicans to cooperate. You would see them all stay on message as they held press conferences, promoted rallies and drew attention to it so the media would take notice. It would be nice.

  •  Pentagon and all these bases need to be cut. (9+ / 0-)

    State and Local workers were forced to take massive cuts and about time the military fat cats took their haircut too.

    We could cut 2/3 of our military spending and still be spending the most in the world.  

    •  While I agree that Defense should be cut, (13+ / 0-)

      you're painting with an awfully broad brush there.  

      The median federal salary is $74K.  Compared to the median US income this is nice, but I wouldn't say it's "fat cat" territory.  And USG employees have had no COLAs since 2010, there are hiring (and thus promotion) freezes in place, and there's talk of layoffs next year.

      Meantime, my colleagues and I continue to take pride in our work, which consists in part of looking out for the tax payers by doing our best to ensure that the government gets a good price from its contractors.  We're not back to pre-Reagan days, but the pendulum is swinging back from the Bush II (and Clinton, and Bush I) days of giving the contractors whatever they want.  This mission never changed for worker bees - but it's a lot easier with the change in administration.

      (Yes, I am a DoD civilian.)

       

      Republicans: if they only had a heart.

      by leu2500 on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 08:31:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You tell'em! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        IllanoyGal

        I hate to see the DOD haters on Dailykos.  Given that so many of us are in the Greater National Capital Region, the salary might seem high to folks in lower cost areas.  Believe me I took a pay cut to become GS because I believed in the mission of my agency and thought I could make a difference.

      •  No COLAs and still 50% higher wage than median (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        play jurist

        family income.

        There are worse ways to suffer.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 07:38:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  This is stepping awfully close to RW talking... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Aquarius40, i dont get it

          ...points about overpaid government workers.

          I've seen enough of your posts to know that you're not a RW troll by any means...but this particular comment of yours does perpetuate a RW talking point.  And when one considers the difference in average education levels between civilian and government workers, most of the difference does disappear.

          Political Compass: -6.75, -3.08

          by TexasTom on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 08:12:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  We should be investing elsewhere. (0+ / 0-)

            Adjunct professors make $20-35k and don't get benefits. I'm not about to cry a river over someone making three to four times that not getting a cost of living bump every year. We should cut defense spending and increase spending on education, health care, and infrastructure. What I find to be coming awefully close to rw talking points is how many progressives are onto the imperialism as economic stimulus bandwagon ever since the sequester. Yeah, cutting without reinvesting elsewhere is a problem, but cutting defense spending is not a problem in itself.

            Passive renunciation is not the whole of wisdom.

            by play jurist on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 02:35:22 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  In that case... (0+ / 0-)

              ...attack defense spending, not defense workers.  There is a difference.

              Or, to put it another way, it's one thing to argue that we should be cutting specific programs and reducing defense spending.  It's quite another to imply or explicitly state that someone who is making $75k/year is somehow being grossly overpaid and deserves to get hit with repeated pay freezes and furloughs.

              I think it sucks that adjunct professors are paid as badly as they are.  But that's not the fault of some civilian worker in the DoD -- and taking it out with resentment at the defense worker won't do a damned thing to improve the conditions for that adjunct professor.

              Political Compass: -6.75, -3.08

              by TexasTom on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 06:31:55 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Oh please... (0+ / 0-)

                What do you hope to achieve by insulting and strawmanning strangers on some website? You've mistaken notgivingafuck for attacking and resenting. Speaking of notgivingafuck, why am I even responding?

                Passive renunciation is not the whole of wisdom.

                by play jurist on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 07:51:54 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  So -- tell me this: Am I wrong? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            play jurist

            When the truth becomes unacceptable because it is true for all concerned, then you have a serious problem.

            Your point about education differences is well-taken, but I will bet I'm not the only one who finds limited sympathy in an economy where people are losing their homes and wondering if they will ever be able to work again.  Furloughs are not fun, but when you're well-paid, and are being asked to give up 20% of your income for a short period -- only 5% annualized -- a lot of people are going to look askance.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 06:06:38 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The problem is... (0+ / 0-)

              ...that when it becomes a battle between those who are doing poorly versus those who are slightly better off, that's when the right wing and the truly wealthy win.

              Remember, the problem isn't that some civilian worker in the DoD is making slightly above average wages -- the problem is with the massive inequality that has funneled huge amounts of money to less than 1% of the population.  And attacking someone in the DoD for making $75k distracts from that point.

              Political Compass: -6.75, -3.08

              by TexasTom on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 06:29:19 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Slightly better off? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                play jurist

                Than out of work and homeless?

                And -- not slightly better than average wages. 50% more than the median household income, which includes two-earner families.

                I don't doubt what you say about education-adjustment.
                I also know what fluctuations and income can do to you -- I've had to live with that for more than a dozen years, since getting laid off from my last real job.

                But -- I'll be millions of people would happily trade places.

                I think you hit the best angle on this when you point out that it's ordinary middle-class workers who are being hit by the sequester and not the fat cats.  That would elicit an "it figures" and even "that ain't right" from a lot of people. To play it up as serious suffering will make a lot of that melt away, if though, honestly, it amounts to notable suffering for many of the affected people.  Not sure if there's a really good way to play it, though -- maybe "Look who gets smacked when the politicians play games.  Guys like me, not the rich guys.  I'm lucky because I can cut back and weather the storm, but I know guys who have xxxx expenses or xxxx, and they are really going to be hurting."

                LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                by dinotrac on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 06:49:00 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  and my qualifications are at least 50% better (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          i dont get it

          than the median family breadwinner's are, educationally & professionally.

          "No COLAs and still 50% higher wage than median
          family income."

          actually, in the private sector, I would be making at least double, if not more, than what I earn with the federal gov't. I sacrificed that for other benefits.

          •  Ummm...let's make this very clear: that is the (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            play jurist

            median household income. That includes two-worker households, which is the norm.  Are your qualifications at least 100% better?

            And how do you justify that?

            Are they better than mine, which include a bachelor's degree and two graduate degrees?

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 06:08:15 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  It aint just the fat cats taking a haircut. (10+ / 0-)

      DOD employs a lot of working class people too, unless you consider $35-40K wealthy. Yes, the defense budget can be cut, but the cuts are coming in all the wrong places.  

      Guns are never the principle in the commission of a crime, but they are usually an accomplice

      by MadGeorgiaDem on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 09:40:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Civil service jobs (8+ / 0-)

      are an important chunk of the middle class, especially for african-americans. it's not the fat cats who are getting hurt here.

      "Today is who you are" - my wife

      by I Lurked For Years on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 05:56:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Oh, the bases have taken a haircut too (0+ / 0-)

      In this.  You should see my new bob I got today

    •  i work for treasury, and my furlough days (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aquarius40

      started in may, so it isn't just DoD. the "military fat cats" aren't taking a "haircut", it's the GS'rs. remember, this money lost to the furloughs is money that doesn't go into the economy. it doesn't pay state/local taxes, it doesn't buy groceries/pay rent/mortgages/kid's new shoes, etc. also, as leau2500 points out, this is on top of no Cost of Living raises since 2010, also money lost to the general economy.

      what the republicans have done, by virtue of the sequester, is dragged down whatever recovery we had going, from the GOP/Bush economic meltdown of 2007-2008. they may be out of the oval office, but they're still managing to continue the destruction of the country they started back in 2001.

  •  It takes two to tango. (6+ / 0-)

    I find that these attempts to lay blame solely on the republicans are not a good fit for what was supposed to be a reality-based community.

    “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.” Terry Pratchett

    by 420 forever on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 07:32:55 AM PDT

    •  last time i checked, republicans control the house (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aquarius40

      "I find that these attempts to lay blame solely on the republicans are not a good fit for what was supposed to be a reality-based community."

      unless, of course, you have evidence to the contrary. in which case, I bet harry reid, nancy pelosi and pres. Obama would love to hear from you. the GOP has blocked, as much as they can, every effort by the pres. and the democrats, to put together a workable budget (and everything else, for that matter), so yes, in the reality based community, it is the republicans causing the problems. again, unless you can cite evidence to the contrary.

      I won't be holding my breath.

  •  Yep, a 20% reduction in pay hurts (10+ / 0-)

    As a state employee, I've had to deal with this level of pay cut, benefit cut, and stupid furlough days for not 3 months, but 3 years now. Try being a faculty member who has to take furlough days knowing the tuition has been raised by 20% on your students over the same time period. We all end up working for free because we care about our students. Oh yeah, and get the research done & pubs out while you're teaching more and larger classes. Promotion & tenure requirements have not changed while you're working harder for much less money. Get on your horse!

    Why stay? Well, the bottom fell out of the housing market a while back. I played by the rules and bought on a short sale closed 30 days before the credit markets froze in 2008. At the worst of it, my house was valued at less than 50% of what I bought it for.

    I'm hoping in a year things will be back to the break even point. If so, I'm planning to go into private practice. If it's all about productivity, then I'd much rather be in complete control of my productivity.

    •  sounds like you do pretty well, congrats (0+ / 0-)

      I know it probably seems like you've taken a haircut but remember you're a winner in the game.

      “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

      by ban nock on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 06:04:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Many workers (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      play jurist

      Have already had to lose two or three days.  So it seems to me that these workers are ahead.  I mean weren't we supposed to have a peace dividend where 10% of the military was fired?

  •  I started my furlough today. (13+ / 0-)

    I've gotten past being mad over it and I have instead decided to use the extra time off productively and do some things that need to be done around my house. I'm one of the lucky ones. I have a pension check from the military and I don't have any bills other than a house payment and utilities. My heart goes out to those who are not so fortunate and have to suffer because the GOP is infested by self-centered assholes.

    Guns are never the principle in the commission of a crime, but they are usually an accomplice

    by MadGeorgiaDem on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 09:36:19 AM PDT

  •  Because pain bathes the soul. n/t (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eps62, elphinstone

    The GOP can't win on ideas. They can only win by lying, cheating, and stealing. So they do.

    by psnyder on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 05:53:02 PM PDT

  •  I'd rather we just stopped defending Europe. (5+ / 0-)

    Couldn't they have used this as an opportunity to recast our military away from the cold war and save money at the same time?

  •  DOD salaries (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    play jurist

    http://www.glassdoor.com/...

    Looks like lowest are aircraft mechanic and IT specialists wich average around 50K

    Overall DOD average 81K which I know for you all isn't much, but you need to realize for most Americans 50K is more than they make. Oh, and not holidays no time off no sick no retirement no health care.

    “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

    by ban nock on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 06:01:56 PM PDT

    •  Not really (3+ / 0-)

      I'm a first line supervisor in payroll, and my salary is about $57,000.  My wife is a stay at home mom to our two year old, who still needs diapers which gets expensive in a hurry.  Oh, and I just had emergency surgery to fix an ulcerated hemoroid (sorry) that caused me to be severly anemic (I needed six units of blood).  While my insurance is covering most of it, I still have premiums (over $200 every two weeks), deductables, copays, and follow-up visits (a doctor walked into my room, saw me sleeping, left, and still billed for the visit).  This is going to hurt a lot.  I just hope nothing else unexpected happens.

      •  I've had to put off surgery (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Militarytracy, tlsmith, Aquarius40

        on my back and a hip replacement.  Not that it was going to be a walk-in-the-park on my salary, anyway.  Great insurance - when you can afford the copays, etc.

        And that "low salary" at $50k average listed above must be regionally-adjusted.  I'm IT in DOD Education, and that sure isn't my salary - or most of the rest of us in the education support field.  Instructors now - that's a whole other tier.

        And that's not even getting into the admin assistant/clerk type positions that are a measly $23/25k a year.  Cut 20% of that salary for a new mom... that's gonna hurt a hell of a lot.

        And not only have I not had a COLA for 3 years, but they pulled back my approved raise on top of the "Furlough Fridays."  Being the sole breadwinner in the family (hubby is one of those long-term unemployed who's no longer counted), and I'm not sure what else we're gonna cut to make it thru.

        The way they dragged it out, tho, bites me.  If they'd have allowed us to take it all at once, I could have made a deal with the mortgage company to skip a month.  This dragging it out one day a week for months doesn't lend itself to any kind of favorable arrangement.

        I've moved past mad.  I've managed to make it (mostly) past grieving.  But I'm stuck in the middle of scared-to-death, and not seeing the way beyond it yet.

        And of course, classes go on, and the curriculum has to be there for the students, regardless.  This is all gonna cost a heck of a lot more than any "savings" they think shows up on paper.  

        We're just scapegoats - whether we're city, state, or federal workers - in their games of class.  I'm convinced if they can turn the state worker against the federal worker it's just an added bonus for them.  They'd love to see us at each others' throats for the crumbs they allow us.  Divide and conquer.  It's an age-old strategy.

      •  My husband needs to retire from (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SlightKC

        Active duty, he is at 24 yrs.  Nobody can hire him though right now, and our special needs son has two surgeries on his back for his scoliosis rods a year.  Insurance outside of Tricare prime is scary right now in such situations.....sigh.  Isn't 2014 supposed to fix the existing insurance horrors?  I'm too afraid to hope though.

        •  The Contractors around here (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Militarytracy, Aquarius40

          are laying off and/or paying substantially less salaries than they were a few years ago.  If my position was still contractor, they'd have slashed my salary at the first contract renewal.

          As it is, when my position transitioned from contractor to GS, I took a little over a 1/3 cut in salary, and paid more for my insurance.  But at least it's decent insurance.  So many contractors are former or retired military, the corporations skimp on what gets covered or how much, because the majority of employees have TriCare.

          My boss and I were talking TriCare this afternoon.  He said the contract had been given to United Healthcare and was going by UH TriCare.  So far, he's been very happy with them.   Don't know what rank your husband will retire with (and if that makes any difference with TriCare); I'm mostly surrounded by active and retired Lt. Col and Cols.  Of those retired, I've not heard anyone say anything negative about their care, etc.  And, aging as we are, we've had a lot of people in and out of surgeries, accidents, and even a couple of autoimmune disease in late stages.

          I'm former Air Force.  NonCom.  Got out instead of retiring.  I'm pretty much the odd chick out in our office. ;)

          My daughter was born at Wilford Hall on Lackland AFB with all kinds of problems.  If it hadn't been for their top-notch NeoNatal ICU, I doubt she'd have lived a month.

          I don't know where you're located, but if you ever feel the need to vent, Militarytracy... or just need a virtual shoulder... feel free to message me.   Sometimes, it's easier to do that with someone at a distance, rather than feeling like you're worrying someone close to you.  At least, that's the way it is with me at times.  Just know I'm here and I've been thru similar situations if you're ever feel the need to scream.

          Gee... guess I'll even have a whole extra day each week to devote to email and messages. (gryn)
           

  •  through the Looking Glass (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ban nock

    when the Front Page on DKos laments a curtailment in Defense spending.

    Cause he gets up in the morning, And he goes to work at nine, And he comes back home at five-thirty, Gets the same train every time.

    by Keith930 on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 06:02:05 PM PDT

    •  The curtailment is coming out of the (6+ / 0-)

      Hides of working people.  Cut a major weapons system.  Bring troops home sooner.  Eliminate a huge unnecessary base.  Those are the kind of cuts we want.  But regular working people don't deserve to be furloughed so that their bosses can save on taxes.

      Never in history has so much money been spent to resist equality; the gross sums of money being spent to take us backwards is lewd, is pornographic is blatant and is arrogant. --Reverend Dr. William Barber, 2012

      by SottoVoce on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 06:10:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "Working people"... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TexasTom

        ...are negatively impacted by all the things you mention here, in many cases severely.

        In any case, I cannot think of worse economic policy than figuring out whether we should keep defense or other programs based on who will be employed by them.

        The question should always be "do we need this capability? really?" If we don't need it we should get rid of it.

        (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
        Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

        by Sparhawk on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 06:56:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well I guess it just sucks to be them then and (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Aquarius40

          they should just FOAD if they can't manage to find something in the private sector (good luck) soon enough.

          You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

          by Throw The Bums Out on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 02:18:11 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  The sequester has nothing to do with (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Aquarius40
          figuring out whether we should keep defense or other programs
          It is a blunt instrument that cuts everything without a discussion of the merits of the program.  The only people who are not affected by it are the wealthy (who can do without a few weeks pay and don't need the programs personally).  This Congress is too lazy and to frightened to actually debate the merits of our government programs and cut them according to their necessity.  Oil company subsidies, for example, would be hard to justify, especially weighed against food for hungry children.  That's why the love the sequester; it gets them off the hook.

          Never in history has so much money been spent to resist equality; the gross sums of money being spent to take us backwards is lewd, is pornographic is blatant and is arrogant. --Reverend Dr. William Barber, 2012

          by SottoVoce on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 05:30:14 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  those are people who have to feed their kids (0+ / 0-)

      It would have been more humane to eliminate positions entirely, allowing people to seek jobs in private industry rather than giving across the board pay cuts.

      Praxis: Bold as Love

      by VelvetElvis on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 06:11:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  People can always seek private jobs (0+ / 0-)

        Nothing here stops them from doing so.

        (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
        Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

        by Sparhawk on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 06:56:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aquarius40

        I don't know where you live, but an "entry level" position here will have people lined up for blocks, hoping to put in an application.  It's even worse for skilled positions.  It's not been "get laid off or quit a job and have another lined up in a couple of weeks" for quite a few years.

        Most of us who are working are in a type of holding pattern... prison?... whether or not we like our work.  It's not just health care keeping one tied to a job these days -- it's having the job (and whatever salary), itself.  The old phrase "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" comes to mind to describe how I feel about it right now.

      •  You're joking, right? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aquarius40

        Eliminating jobs would not be better for the people affected, who would be thrown into what is still a pretty lousy job market.  Those "jobs in private industry" are somewhat less than abundant right now.

        Bad as the forloughs are for many people, layoffs would be worse.

        Political Compass: -6.75, -3.08

        by TexasTom on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 08:17:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Only I would have scheduled a (5+ / 0-)

    Doctors appointment today on Ft. Rucker.  There has been a hiring freeze for months now so as people have left or retired nobody was hired to replace them.  So the clinic and pharmacy were already short handed, now even more manpower shorted.

    Two gates of the five used to get on post are closed in order to have enough manpower to keep three gates manned 24 hrs.  The gate nearest our home was closed.  So I wasn't the demanded 15 mins early, because the Enterprise gate was backed up.  Buses of flight school students that are in and out of the Faulkner gate (my gate) also ended up dumping into the Enterprise gate making soldiers late for work, and flight school students late for their next classes.

    Waiting for hell to freeze over or my birth control prescription at pharmacy though was the best.  A whole room full of almost all military retired angry Republican voters was sheer bliss.  It was like being in a yoga studio for a Liberal.  My blood pressure remained perfect.  I didn't break any of this shit with my neurotic habits.....they did.  Now if they want it fixed......well :)

    Also, I can get two Plan B every six months at the pharmacy for free without a prescription, just walk in and ask.  So it could have only been better if I had been standing in the angry waiting area with a bullhorn announcing this wonderful-ness.

  •  There is No Need for More Taxes (7+ / 0-)

    These cuts are just pure spite by the GOPers who want to stick it to Pres. Obama any way they can.  The government can easily afford to pay the "savings" from these furlough which won't be savings at all.

    As Keynes explained many years ago, cutting the pay of workers in these circumstances not only cuts their demand for goods and services, it has multiplier effects that triple the lost demand and cost more jobs and economic growth.

    So tax revenues will be cut as incomes fall and there will be NO savings at all.

  •  How much of a hit did the contractors take? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    i dont get it

    According to the Project on Government Oversight, in 2010 DOD contractor support services personnel cost approximately 3 times what military and DOD civilian personnel cost.  I have read the DOD power point presentation on which these numbers are based and the figures appear to have validity.  Given that there are approximately equal numbers of contractor personnel and civilian personnel, many fewer days of contractor furloughs would been needed to save the same amount of money.  I agree with the cuts proposed here by the other commenters, but I believe we could have a stronger defense at a much lower cost.

    Dedicated to recapturing the American Dream by changing the framework of the debate to focus on: Growth, Efficiency, Community, Sustainability and Economic Fairness. Improve constantly and drive out fear - Dr. W. Edwards Deming

    by Paradigm Change on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 06:58:24 PM PDT

  •  let's not continue to rewrite history (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dinotrac

    The sequester was a Democratic Party idea.

    •  Let's also not equate an idea with an action. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aquarius40

      Anyone can have an idea.  You, me, or anyone reading (or not reading) this article.  And the idea in question was supposed to be a bad one - one that no one would want to take action on.

      The action was taken by both House and Senate, and taken eagerly by the House, whose Republican leadership declared that they had gotten 90 percent of what they wanted.  And these same people keep talking about how great it is, and how it's reducing expenditures.

      I believe that in the future, our politicians may be the ones seen as fiddling while America burns.

      It never pays to get in an argument with an idiot, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience

      by minnvoter on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 01:11:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Won't be quite 20% (0+ / 0-)

    I presume more than a few of those workers will drop a tax bracket.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 07:37:08 PM PDT

  •  I hope they don't forget to send a thank you note (0+ / 0-)

    ...to Obama, Boehner, McConnell and Reid, who negotiated the sequester deal, and all the Republicans and Democrats in the House and Senate who voted for it.

    And all those who supported and cheered them doing it, you take a bow too.

    The modern Democrat is one who promotes old GOP ideas and calls them progressive in comparison to new GOP ideas.

    by masswaster on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 08:47:39 PM PDT

  •  Good! Fuck Defense Dept Jobs. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    play jurist

    That giant sucking sound you hear is the paychecks of around 650,000 civilian Defense Department workers:

    Good! Fuck Defense Dept Jobs.

    More people die from banging their heads in the bathtub than terr'st mayhem.

    Jeezzz amerika,,, get a grip.

    Nuclear Reactor = Dirty Bomb

    by olo on Mon Jul 08, 2013 at 10:19:33 PM PDT

  •  Keynsian militariasm. (0+ / 0-)

    I'm not such a fan of that. There are better things to spend money on than maintaining the conceit of global military domination. We can't hegemonically shape world events anyway, so we should stop wasting money trying. We'd be better off paying people to dig a ditch then fill it back up than wasting money having a bloated Defense Department. Better yet, let's invest in things that actually grow a prosperous society like education, health care, clean energy, and infrastructure. We'd do more to bring justice into the world by becoming a beacon of prosperity and freedom than by representing a bunch of maddened gamers hopped up on Mountain Dew and drone-striking distant tribespeople.

    Passive renunciation is not the whole of wisdom.

    by play jurist on Tue Jul 09, 2013 at 02:43:38 AM PDT

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