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I should start by saying I don't understand a lot of the mechanics of this site.  Now it's suggested that I don't understand the politics, either.

I just posted a diary explaining why I no longer ID as a Democrat after having been a Democratic elected official in my first career.

One of the responses is that this is a Democratic site and therefore my remarks are out of order.

I did not intend to be out of order.

Some years ago, I wrote an op-ed in opposition to the Iraq War, and a friend of mine suggested that I post it on Kos.  I did, and my account remained dormant until recently, in spite of the fact she's regularly pestered me to have a presence here.

I reluctantly posted some of my American Indian flavored writings, and the responses encouraged me to post more.  That was a pleasant surprise.

Now I'm told that if I can't support the party, I don't belong here.

If that's the case, I'm not offended.  Just let me know what the rules are and I'll follow them.  I understand I don't own this cyber real estate, and I have no interest in putting the amount of work into my diaries that I do if people find them offensive.

Because I'm Indian, I am used to writing for a small niche.  That's my normal world.

Because, as far as I can tell, there's no central authority to ask, I'm going to put up a poll and abide by the results.

Poll

Please READ THE LIST OF MY DIARIES and understand that I admit I'm not a Democrat. Should I stay or go?

76%36 votes
10%5 votes
12%6 votes

| 47 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Basically the mission of Daily Kos (17+ / 0-)

    is to 'elect more and better Democrats".

    3rd party stuff is 'discouraged'. And ridiculed as this is a corporate-owned country and we have only 2 official parties.

    You will get flak.

    HOWEVER - I would 'sell you" on the idea that with a few nutty exceptions NOBODY likes Blue Dogs. They are definitely the turds in the punchbowl. You may lay into them as much as you want.

    And you can legitimately pick on Harry Reid for being softer than a jellyfish in the wake of the Republican Poseidon.

    •  I'm not a Democrat either - (0+ / 0-)

      I'm not running for office so I don't have to "belong" to a party.  I consider myself a liberal / progressive - and for that reason, I am quite at odds with those who identify as Republican.  But I am also very critical of those calling themselves Democrats as they too, do not always uphold my particular values.

      And as an American I will always vote for whomever I please, regardless of political party.

      I would say that if we all have to agree on everything posted in here, then why read anything?  Why post anything.  

      •  I agree with you re political debate (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        indubitably, Joy of Fishes

        But I've got better things to do that debate whether I ought to post on the site.

        I like a good political discussion, but it was not my intent to throw elbows just to get a word in.  So if the person who said that Kos is for Democrats only were correct, I'm OK with that and it's my mistake.

        Progressives only--I'm fine with that.

        There may come a time when a third party candidate from the left can do some good, but, really, it's the Republicans who have to shake out that problem right now and I'm thinking if the Dems watch what happens with the Tea Party and the Repugs, they might decide what I have decided:

        Taking over the Democratic Party is a problem of X difficulty.

        Taking over the US government is a problem of X + Y difficulty.

        If you can't do X, you can't do Y, regardless of the value of X.

  •  Nuance is a good thing (12+ / 0-)

    I'm a lifelong Democrat, despite a short stint as a Young Republican in 9th or 10th grade (I still remember the look of horror on my dad's face). I always vote Democrat and probably always will, unless and until a better alternative emerges.

    And, despite your disclaimer, I saw little or nothing anti-Democrat in that diary. I just saw observations.

    I don't always agree with the admin of this site. In fact, I disagree rather extremely with them at times. However, I don't think they're lost in black and white thinking.

    Please keep posting. I'm so pleased to see you writing here. I've followed you since the late 1990's at the forums at Indianz.com and other equally contentious sites. I haven't always agreed with what you've written, but I have always found great food for thought, and I believe you're an asset to this site.

  •  You should CERTAINLY stay and write... (13+ / 0-)

    ....whatever you feel compelled to write, I certainly had no intent to suggest otherwise.

    I am allowed to to criticize what you write in return.

    I apologize if I left the impression that you shouldn't be here stating your opinion.

    I WOULD think that you shouldn't be posting here if you were utilizing the site to support a third-party candidate.

    "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

    by leftykook on Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 06:11:02 AM PDT

  •  The way I understand it... (18+ / 0-)

    ...non-Democrats are welcome here, but should not be promoting non-Democratic candidates or discouraging others from voting for Dems.  

  •  My best memory of the long (14+ / 0-)

    and tortured trail of this issue, is that what has been officially prohibited in the past is the advocacy of a specific political campaign by someone who is competing against a Democratic candidate. Cindy Sheehan was a major instance of that.

    The FAQ has become like a sacred religious text with nobody sure what is the absolutely authentic version is much less what it really means.

  •  The Site is Chartered to Elect More and Better Dem (14+ / 0-)

    ocrats. It's in the mission statement, the FAQ.

    That said, there's a lot of room for divergent thinking here, including extremes including opposing capitalism and the Constitution, as long as you're not politicking here against the Democratic party.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 06:29:51 AM PDT

    •  Gooser, so I published a Diary based on quote from (0+ / 0-)

      a conservative site and my Diary does not support the conservative contention. Democratic party not involved in that Diary one way or the other. No cussing either.
      Why R we not to quote from a conservative site to make a Diary point?

      •  There's nothing wrong with citing conservative... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        divineorder

        ...sites if you are criticizing. But if you're approvingly quoting right-wing opinions and citing conservative sites to back those up, then you're out of bounds.

        Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 06:37:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Please remember also (11+ / 0-)

    this site has a large, opinionated and multivaried readership.  If you write an observation that water is wet, you're likely to get pushback.

    It's okay.  This is water.  Keep swimming.

    "I speak the truth, not as much as I would, but as much as I dare, and I dare a little the more, as I grow older." --Montaigne

    by DrLori on Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 06:34:25 AM PDT

  •  this site is schizophrenic because (11+ / 0-)

    we have two stated goals, and they are incompatible with each other.

    On the one hand, the goal of this site is to elect Democrats.  That goal has grown in emphasis ever since Kos found a seat at the table with the party pooh-bahs.

    On the other hand, the goal of this site is to defend and advance the progressive agenda.

    Those two goals are happy together as long as the Dem party is itself progressive. Alas, that has not been true since the mid-1970's.

    So we have two entirely different wings here, which are fundamentally incompatible. Put crudely, one side are pragmatic politicos who simply want to elect people with a D after their name, because the Repugs are even worse.  The other side are the dirty fucking hippies, who don't give a rat's ass about "the party" and just want to advance a progressive agenda and oppose those who do not.

    That is why this site is always full of civil war, with both factions fighting with each other over everything from rox/sux to hero/traitor to everything in between.

    It is a feature of DKos that will never go away, ever, unless (1) the Dem party becomes progressive again, or (2) Kos bans one side or the other.

    •  It's ESPECIALLY bad... (10+ / 0-)

      ...when the divergent points of view are in one head, like mine!

      It's difficult to deal with being a DFH and a surly pragmatist AT THE SAME TIME!

      Like The Firesign Theater once asked:

      "How can you be two places at once when you aren't anywhere at all?"

      "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

      by leftykook on Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 06:47:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  they are not incompatible (7+ / 0-)
      this site is schizophrenic because we have two stated goals, and they are incompatible with each other.

      On the one hand, the goal of this site is to elect Democrats.  That goal has grown in emphasis ever since Kos found a seat at the table with the party pooh-bahs.

      On the other hand, the goal of this site is to defend and advance the progressive agenda.

      we elect more dems, we get more progressive legislation.  

      we elect better dems, we get even more progressive legislation.

      better dems in the primaries, more in the general; that's how it works, and there's no incompatibility

      So we have two entirely different wings here, which are fundamentally incompatible. Put crudely, one side are pragmatic politicos who simply want to elect people with a D after their name, because the Repugs are even worse.  The other side are the dirty fucking hippies, who don't give a rat's ass about "the party" and just want to advance a progressive agenda and oppose those who do not.
      most claiming the mantle of DFH wouldn't know a hippie if a nekkid one bit 'em on the arse.

      but besides that, until someone can explain how one enacts a progressive agenda while one is out of power, more dems it must be.

      Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

      by Cedwyn on Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 09:07:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm pretty sure I'd know a hippie (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cedwyn

        I've been one since the 70's. Still make my own hemp anklets.

        :)

      •  ps--I'd like someone to explain to me how (0+ / 0-)
        but besides that, until someone can explain how one enacts a progressive agenda while one is out of power, more dems it must be.
        one enacts a progressive agenda with non-progressive Dems.
        •  the crux of the issue is still getting elected (0+ / 0-)

          because no progressive anything happens with the GOP in power.

          blue dogs suck, but until we can elect a barney frank in nebraska, a dem coalition it must be.

          Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

          by Cedwyn on Sat Jul 13, 2013 at 08:03:59 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I get that. but it still doesn't answer my (0+ / 0-)

            question.  How do we enact a progressive agenda without a progressive Dem Party?

            •  local and state (0+ / 0-)

              get the most liberal pols you can elected.  implementing progressive policy and proving they work is the best shot we have.

              plus, ROI on campaigns/donations is way better on smaller campaigns.

              beyond that, the answer is fighting like hell in liberal areas and winning races such that we have overwhelming numbers.  pelosi was all about the public option, but needed too many blue dog votes to get a bill out of the house.

              etc.

              Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

              by Cedwyn on Sat Jul 13, 2013 at 01:01:10 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I get that too, but in order to gain progressive (0+ / 0-)

                Dems in office, we have to criticize and then remove the NON-progressive Dems that are already in office.

                Which brings cries of eternal damnation here every time it's done.

                So how do we remove non-progressive Dems without . . . well . . . removing them?

                See, THAT is where the problem lies. There seems to be a large contingent here who think it is treason to even CRITICIZE anyone with a D after their name "because the Repugs are even worse !!!!"

                •  you don't remove them (0+ / 0-)

                  that's exactly what the tea party is doing:  shooting themselves in the foot electorally by going after pols they consider to be not conservative enough.

                  it's thinking like that that left harry reid, and not mcturtle, in charge of the senate.  the GOP had a lot of easy wins lined up, but because they nominated halfwits like akin et al, they lost.

                  granted, ours aren't troglodyte halfwits, but the same immutable laws apply. barney frank is never going to get elected in utah.  so if a not-so-progressive dem is all we can get out of there,  so be it.  at least that makes pelosi speaker, etc.

                  you can't overlook the lack, jack, of any other highway to ride...

                  Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

                  by Cedwyn on Sat Jul 13, 2013 at 09:43:56 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  well, if we don't remove them, we are stuck with (0+ / 0-)

                    them--and we never get any progressive party.

                    That is, well, sort of the problem.  Even with "the lesser evil", we still get to the same destination--it just takes a little longer to get there.

                    We can't change direction without first removing the drivers.

                    •  majorities matter most (0+ / 0-)

                      look at the GOP-run house we have.  you think we'd be dealing with half this crap if pelosi were speaker?  no, we would not.

                      and if blue dogs from places like utah and nebraska are necessary to give us speaker pelosi, well, that's that.  

                      because being an überliberal minority in congress gets us jack shit in the way of progressive legislation.  you have to win to enact an agenda.  that's inescapable.

                      Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

                      by Cedwyn on Sun Jul 14, 2013 at 09:36:25 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

    •  LennyF, There are more than just 2 diff. wings... (0+ / 0-)

      ...have U not noticed the nitpickers who can't seem 2 adjust to
      anything that challenges their rigidity?

  •  i get what you're saying. (12+ / 0-)

    you're not a republican. you're not thrilled w/ every democrat, so you don't identify as a democrat. I think I get you.

    if I had to guess, i'd bet you represent the democratic wing of the democratic party, but you identify as an independent.

    I am a registered democrat, and I volunteer mad, crazy hours for some democrats. for other democrats, I will vote for them, but I will not work like a dog for them.

    sometimes candidates coordinate their campaigns, and work I do for one candidate benefits another. oh well.

    while i'm a registered democrat, I vote in the general election on the working families party line. the democratic candidates are on both lines.

    I think the thing that might get you into trouble here might be if you pushed a republican or third party candidate over a democrat.

    "...i also also want a legally binding apology." -George Rockwell

    by thankgodforairamerica on Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 06:39:49 AM PDT

    •  the working families party: (4+ / 0-)

      workingfamiliesparty.org

      The Working Families Party focuses on the bread and butter economic issues that affect all of us.

      We’re fighting for a world where the economy works for everyone. One where politicians are held accountable to regular people, instead of big-money backers, lobbyists and huge corporations. One where all of us, no matter where we come from, can find a good job, visit a doctor when we need it, afford a decent place to live, send our kids to quality schools, and have a secure retirement.

      "...i also also want a legally binding apology." -George Rockwell

      by thankgodforairamerica on Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 06:45:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Can somebody explain? (5+ / 0-)

    What is the "tip jar?"

    •  I use it to show I liked your diary (5+ / 0-)

      and I'm too lazy to find the recommend button.

      The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right. -- Judge Learned Hand, May 21, 1944

      by ybruti on Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 07:12:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The tip jar ... (5+ / 0-)

      ... is the first comment and it generates automatically when you post a diary.  There is a way to customize it, but that's beyond the little bit I know.

      "Recommends" in your tip jar generate "mojo."  Mojo leads to "trusted user" status.  As far as I know TU means you can see hidden comments, which happen when enough people vote to "hide" a comment from general view.  I see on  your profile that you have TU status.

      I hope you stay.  I am rather greedily looking forward to anything you decide to share here, especially more Ray Sixkiller stories (hint, hint).

      Dwell on the beauty of life. ~ Marcus Aurelius

      by Joy of Fishes on Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 07:22:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Try searching (4+ / 0-)

      Welcome New Users--the recent diary "bojo, mojo" diary is one of many that explains linguistics, anthropology of the site.

    •  Tip Jars (from FAQ's) (5+ / 0-)

      Tip Jars

      Because diaries can't be rated, a comment titled 'Tip Jar' is automatically posted with each diary*. This is intended as a place to give mojo for the diary; if you feel that the diary was worthwhile, it's a nice gesture to leave a recommend in the tip jar. A tip jar should only appear under the username of the author of a diary. Posting a tip jar in somebody else's diary will be regarded as an attempt to take credit for the diary; at the very least, you will be yelled at by other commenters. There is no rule, however, that says commenters must wait for a tip jar to appear before they can legitimately comment on the diary.
      And, about "mojo":
       
      Trusted Users

      If a user gathers enough comment mojo, they become a Trusted User. To prevent people from gaming the system, the exact amount of mojo required is not publicly revealed. Trusted Users have a few additional privileges compared to regular users. A regular user can recommend comments; a TU can also hide comments. If a comment gets enough hide ratings, it becomes hidden to regular users (also see the trolls section below). TUs can, if they wish, see the hidden comments. TUs thus have the responsibility of deciding whether comments should be hidden or not. In addition, TUs can edit and remove tags from diaries; regular users can only add new tags. There are two easy ways to tell if you are a TU. First is to look at the Tools sidebar; if there is an entry reading 'Hidden Comments', you are a TU. The other way is to try to rate a comment; if there is a 'Hide' button next to the 'Recommend' button, you are a TU.

      One of the factors that goes into determination of TU status is time. If a user stops commenting, or their comments stops getting recommendations, eventually that user will lose TU status. This can be easily remedied by posting more comments that meet with the approval of the readership community.

  •  Common goals or adversaries? (5+ / 0-)

    Bernie Sanders is obviously not a Democrat, but is widely admired at DKos. I believe he has also diaried here, and been well-received.

    OTOH someone in the position of Ralph Nader 2000 would likely be quickly banned.

    I have argued several times here that the Democrats and Greens should build a coalition. Example: http://www.dailykos.com/... Some Kossacks have reacted negatively to that. But you can't please everybody, especially not every Kossack.

    The critical factor, I think, is whether you are contributing to electoral success for progressives, rather than trying to split the progressive vote.

    "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

    by HeyMikey on Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 07:06:19 AM PDT

  •  Whew (7+ / 0-)

    This is really complicated!

    On the other hand, if you are going to have a political site, there has to be some method of troll control, because the trolls run off the serious debate.

    I'm guessing this got way complicated over time in response to trolls figuring out how to game the system.

    Well, I'm not here to call people names, and I normally don't shill for candidates.  I'm more likely to take a position in the primaries, see my diary Wendy Davis Ayes.

    While I don't wish the death of the Republican Party because I don't think one party rule is ever a good idea, the current incarnation of the GOP has no program beyond government by the cockroach theory.

    The cockroach theory is when you know you can't carry it away, so you just try to fall into it and mess it up.

  •  Yeah, I think you should stick around. (7+ / 0-)

    There are tons of users on this site who aren't Democrats. I went and read the diary in question and I didn't see anything out of line.

    I see the line as existing basically where other people have seen it: don't use the site to try and undercut the building of a better Democratic Party, and you're fine. I don't really see a poll option for that, because it lies between "write what you please" and "don't be critical of the Democrats."

    Hell, being critical of Democrats is what a lot of us do best! And it's a huge part of building a better party, for those of us who share that goal.

    Anyhow, I personally like your writing and am glad you're here, for whatever that's worth.

    "Nach dem Spiel ist vor dem Spiel." -Sepp Herberger

    by surfbird007 on Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 07:46:42 AM PDT

  •  While this is a political site (6+ / 0-)

    I rarely write about politics directly. My Indians 101 series is intended to provide accurate background for people with the idea that better education allows people to make better political choices.

  •  You're a good writer (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    indubitably, Joy of Fishes, The Marti

    I really liked your Sea Cruise diary.

    It would be a shame not to have writing of that caliber popping up whenever you have something to say.

    And it's always valuable to have diaries coming from Native points of view.

  •  I saw the title of your "I'm not a Democrat" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Senor Unoball, The Marti

    diary - skipped reading it - for no real reason other than something else caught my eye.

    Having read this diary and the comments, I will be going back to look at your previous postings.  I also don't think you need to leave the site due to having issues with Democratic politicians/candidates.

    You write well, and you are obviously trying to be non-confrontational while still expressing your opinions.  Nothing wrong with that AFAIK.

    The man who dies rich dies disgraced. -Andrew Carnegie, industrialist (1835-1919)

    by Spirit of Life on Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 09:04:42 AM PDT

  •  Hopefully, you'll stay and we'll all work together (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Marti

    to elect more and better Democrats.

    I don't agree that not IDing with the party is the best track to be on.

    But it's important that we progressives talk to each other and help make the world a better place.

  •  Ignore them. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Marti, Meteor Blades

    Kos has always welcomed all of us here, Dems or non-Dems, as long as we write in good faith and don't specifically advocate for 3rd party candidates in races in which Dems are running, or specifically advocate that other people leave the Dems.  Basically, don't advocate for another party on site.

    You are certainly free to be critical of Dems on the things they're doing wrong.  For me, that generally falls under 'whenever they're acting in a manner that opposes their own party platform'.

    Stay away from those sorts of things, and you can be a member in good standing on site, whether Dem, Repub, Socialist, Libertarian, or whatever.

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