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Another day watching cable news, and another day hearing the cogniscenti proclaiming that Hillary Clinton is running for president, and the presumptive front runner at this early stage.

My problem with Hillary now is the same problem I've always had with her.  What does she want to do?  Other than become president?

I frankly have no idea.  And it's pretty fucking sad if this is the best we can come up with.

It is the definition of a bankrupt political party.

Sorry if that gets your chones in a bunch...but the truth is the truth.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (14+ / 0-)

    Cause he gets up in the morning, And he goes to work at nine, And he comes back home at five-thirty, Gets the same train every time.

    by Keith930 on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:08:59 PM PDT

  •  Don't think it's been appropriate for Hillary... (13+ / 0-) elaborate a separate foreign policy of her own, having been President Obama's Secretary of State for four years, now.  Nor should she (or Bill, for that matter) be describing an alternate domestic agenda as long as they're not the nominal leader of the Party occupying the White House.

    Ya know?

    To me, not having anything more current than her campaign of 2007-8 to go on, as far as figuring out her distinctive point of view, is a testament to her discipline and professionalism ... and maturity.

  •  Why not ask her? (5+ / 0-)

    because Hillary hasn't said she's running yet. The media's saying she's running. Of course that's in their interest to hype her up, even though it's probably not in hers. If she decides to run, why not ask her then? Then see if she can give a good answer. But right now she's just keeping her head down. All this hype is being generated by other people right now. I'm still waiting to hear what she'll say.

    "It is, it seems, politically impossible to organize expenditure on the scale necessary to prove my case -- except in war conditions."--JM Keynes, 1940

    by randomfacts on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:19:28 PM PDT

  •  I'm not a big fan either (15+ / 0-)

    but I wouldn't say she hasn't ever said what she thinks. She was in a bunch of debates in 2008, and she talked as much as the current President.

    She's a "centrist" Democrat, what would have been a moderate to liberal Repub. in the 50s, 60s or 70s. Pretty much like the current President.

    This Rover crossed over.. Willie Nelson, written by Dorothy Fields

    by Karl Rover on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:21:23 PM PDT

    •  2016 is all about replacing Scalia and Kennedy (9+ / 0-)

      We need a win and we need a big win that carries over into Senate and House contests. If we can replace those two guys with young liberals then we can get Citizen United off the books.

      I think Clinton gives us the best chance to run up a big win across the country. And not for nothing, but to make the wingers take a dose of Hillary as President would be delicious.

      •  Johnny, you bring up a point I have to constantly (5+ / 0-)

        remind myself of through this coming adventure.

        If there is anything that we have learned of late it is that the Court matters hugely as we try to make gains on all fronts.

        Whoever the nominee is I'll be working. I don't care if its my first choice, second choice or 25th. We have to secure those seats that come available to have any hope of making progress stick.

        Wonders are many, but none so wonderful as man.

        by Morgan Sandlin on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 08:19:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  At this point, to say anyone is the "best chance" (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        deepeco, TheLizardKing

        is making a wildly speculative statement since we have no idea

        A. what the state of the republican party will be
        B. who the GOP may nominate
        C. how Hillary would be received once she announced and how much of a hit her approval would take
        D. what other candidates we might have who might really enthuse people once they had a chance to grow their name recognition

        Fact is, right now we don't have a clue who might have the "best chance."

        Ed FitzGerald for governor Of Ohio. Women's lives depend on it.

        by anastasia p on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 10:58:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Hillary's creed... (9+ / 0-)

    I want to be the first woman president.  Other than that, I got nothing.  

    •  Lots of us (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bush Bites, JamesGG

      think it's time for a smart, qualified, passionate, Democratic woman president, Hillary or no. Certainly better than more Weiners, Filners and Summers

      "It is, it seems, politically impossible to organize expenditure on the scale necessary to prove my case -- except in war conditions."--JM Keynes, 1940

      by randomfacts on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:29:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Warren's good... (4+ / 0-)

        Elizabeth Warren has been good on issues and substance, a nice change.  

        Hillary and many of her supporters seemed more concerned with reminding us that she's a woman more than what she'll actually do as president.  

        Summers is a terrible choice for anything, even if he was a woman.  Obama was an idiot for putting his name forth.  

        •  Agree on Warren and Summers. (0+ / 0-)

          I don't there are that  many people who truly support Hillary just because she's a woman, honestly. Unless those people also supported Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin.

          But yeah, it's too soon to be supporting anyone. Sheesh. How many people thought Howard Dean could be the nominee in 2001? Some people are overconfident in their predictions. I still remember when the campaign didn't begin until 18 months before the election.

          "It is, it seems, politically impossible to organize expenditure on the scale necessary to prove my case -- except in war conditions."--JM Keynes, 1940

          by randomfacts on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:55:01 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, in December 2007, (0+ / 0-)

            every pundit and commentator out there said the race was between Hillary and Rudy and no one else had a shot.

            That pretty much illustrates he folly of making statements now about who our candidate should be.

            Ed FitzGerald for governor Of Ohio. Women's lives depend on it.

            by anastasia p on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 10:59:47 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Which pundits and commentators... (0+ / 0-)

              ...were saying that Giuliani had the nomination locked up?
              I honestly don't remember any sensible person saying that a pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-immigration, anti-gun, tax-raising twice-elected candidate of New York's Liberal Party was a lock for the Republican nomination.  
              How on earth did they think that was going to happen?

    •  While she's no progressive... (11+ / 0-)

      ...she's been in the trenches for decades, now, and the idea that she's only out for some sort of video game style "achievement unlocked" is absurd. She clearly has ideas, goals, policies, and motives aside from being the first of something. She's proven that over time. They are not progressive ideas, goals, policies, and motives, but nor are they absent.

      it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

      by Addison on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:36:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Anyone who asks (17+ / 0-)

    for a world view of anyone else in 25 words or less has no intellectual curiousity nor should be taken seriously outside of the twitter machine of the Kardashians.

    " My faith in the Constitution is whole; it is complete; it is total." Barbara Jordan, 1974

    by gchaucer2 on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:22:11 PM PDT

    •  I'll give 2500 (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      not sure that helps

      Cause he gets up in the morning, And he goes to work at nine, And he comes back home at five-thirty, Gets the same train every time.

      by Keith930 on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:23:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  look above your comment, gchaucer2 (0+ / 0-)

      someone did it in just 8 words.  

      Cause he gets up in the morning, And he goes to work at nine, And he comes back home at five-thirty, Gets the same train every time.

      by Keith930 on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:25:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That sounds like you have a pre-disposed (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Remediator, oldpotsmuggler

        opinion Keith.

        Personally, and I was vehemently opposed to her previous campaign, I'll support her if she runs.

        If you have a problem with her why aren't you advocating an alternative rather than simply looking for a negative regarding Hillary?

        Wonders are many, but none so wonderful as man.

        by Morgan Sandlin on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 07:22:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If she can get over Tuzla, and if her negatives (0+ / 0-)

          fall back down into breathable air, then I'd say, yes, give the female Nixon her shot.

          Their real God is money-- Jesus just drives the armored car, and his hat is made in China. © 2009 All Rights Reserved

          by oblomov on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 09:07:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Dumbo's international world view in 25 words: (3+ / 0-)

      Stay out of other countries' business unless it directly impacts you.  Don't waste time teaching other countries a lesson.  We're not always better than them.

      •  The Muslims of (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Srebrenica and Zepa and the Tutsis of Rwanda and many other millions thank something in the universe that 25 words or less weren't the reason they were slaughtered without global concern -- ok, maybe your first sentence.

        " My faith in the Constitution is whole; it is complete; it is total." Barbara Jordan, 1974

        by gchaucer2 on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:58:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  How many millions that died in (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Chi, blueoasis, Sunspots

          Iraq and World War I and Vietnam and many, many, many other wars "for the good cause" are there out there that would like to share their thanks?

          The lesson seems obvious to me.  We do more damage than we do good, we make more enemies than we make friends, and when we believe most that we are being altruistic and fighting for a good cause, we are usually making some big donor rich.

          •  What about WWII? (0+ / 0-)

            I'm from the Elizabeth Warren wing of the Democratic Party

            by voicemail on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 06:48:57 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  yes, that's the exception, (0+ / 0-)

              although, we were attacked at Pearl Harbor, as I recall, and the Nazis were allies with the Japanese and declared war on us simultaneously with our declaring war on Japan.  And our allies against Japan were at war with Germany.  So I'm not sure the situation applies.

              Unless you were to suggest that we should have got into World War II earlier.  That's a hypothetical situation that we can't be sure would have been beneficial for anybody, so I can't see it as a very useful counter-argument.  

              If a war is necessary because it impacts us, we'll find out one way or the other.  A war that is based on the brilliant hypothesizing of some guys with ulterior motives about how to improve other countries -- those are bad wars.  I renounce the whole concept of it.

      •  So human rights is out the window? (0+ / 0-)

        Whether other people are being oppressed or not doesn't directly impact us, but whenever the government ignores human rights concerns everyone gets quite upset around here.

        Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre.

        by Sky Net on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 07:11:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We can express human rights concerns (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Zack from the SFV, Chi, blueoasis

          without getting involved in military actions that kill people and really only serve to make big donors rich.

          Ultimately, we have little say in what other countries do with their own people unless we are willing to attack them.  I'm fine with boycotts and sternly worded messages, etc., but I have little faith in them.

          The best message we can give the world is that we are trying to be the best that we can be.  We torture people, we spy on our own citizens.  We need to worry less about other people's motes when we have so many beams of our own.

          •  Not a bad policy (0+ / 0-)

            But if you're in favor of sanctions and similar policies then you're not really in favor of staying out of other countries' business.  And your caveat that we should stay out "unless it directly impacts you" can be used to justify pretty much anything.  That doesn't seem to change our policy at all.

            Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre.

            by Sky Net on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 07:32:02 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I see a big difference. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Chi, blueoasis

              America expressing support for one side in Middle Eastern civil war, for instance, has MILITARY implications without even the mention of troops, just because of our history.  Remove the history, and it's a different matter.

              Personally, I don't trust our leaders to pick the right side in these conflicts anyway, so I don't think it matters that much.

        •  Oh, I think it affects us. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          But military action for human rights reasons are almost a contradiction in terms.  And I know this is cynical, and you can try to manufacture some hypothetical to rebut it, but in almost every case, good deeds done with military historically turn out to either backfire, or to have not been for good reasons after all.  Or both.

          And sometimes we do just have to live with the fact that other countries do bad things to their people and there's not much good that we can do about it other than condemn it.  There's a ludicrous kind of optimism that liberal hawks sometimes have, like the ones that cheerleaded for the Iraq War, that gets us into really crappy situations over and over again.

    •  25 Words (4+ / 0-)

      I agree with Chaucer. (I'm an English teacher. How could I possibly disagree with the creator of the Wyf of Bathe?) If I had to describe my own world view in 25 words or fewer, the result would be rambling and incoherent. Not to mention plagiarized, like this 26-word description of my world view:

      I wanted to be an astronaut; I just didn't have the grades. Plus I threw up a lot, and nobody liked spending a week with me.
      See? The only thing you learned about me was that I like Futurama. While this may be a necessary cause for a presidential bid, it is not a sufficient cause.

      One cat away from crazy.

      by IamGumby on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 07:37:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Anyone who can't explain it (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      In twenty five words or fewer doesn't have a clear notion of what they think.  You should try the exercise sometime.  The elevator pitch can clarify your thinking admirably

      Drawing from her primary campaign and subsequent statements I would say

      Clinton take a moderate approach to domestic affairs with traditional, market oriented economic approach, with liberal social tendencies.  Her foreign style emphasizes humanitarian cooperation within a real politik frame work.

      Ok, so it's a little over, but it captures the gist.  Or in six words

      Probably Obama light
      Might be better

      Touch all that arises with a spirit of compassion. An activist seeks to change opinion.

      by Mindful Nature on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 07:40:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The media will clamor at all the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Morgan Sandlin, Radiowalla

    stories they think they can help drive, but we can hear Secretary Clinton's announcement for higher office if it comes, without any need for media pan-rattling.

    If it comes for 2016, it will stand on its own shoulders -- stints as U.S. Senator and Secretary of State -- and will have seen a long distance.

    Offered to voters, she will inspire the best of their loyalties.  We don't know if she's running.  She may defer to others to carry the banner.  

    But if she wants the nomination, at this point anyway, I'm not seeing anybody who can defeat her.  And I don't think the Pukes have a soul who can contend against her in the states whose electoral college votes will decide the election.  

    I don't think the question is her positions in so many words or less; I think it's the intensity of the loyalty she will inspire and can convert to electoral clout.  

    •  ". . . if she wants the nomination . . . i'm not (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dumbo, mightymouse, blueoasis, Wee Mama

      seeing anybody who can defeat her."

      that's what everybody was saying back in 2006 & 7, too.

      •  Some said that to different circumstances, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Morgan Sandlin

        yes, but not to the set of circumstances and accomplishments she represents now.

        She led in polling for at least one year prior to the 2008 Democratic primaries -- true, but not the point.  

        That was then.  This is now.  No one is predicting outcomes on a candidacy that is yet undeclared.  If she wants the nom, I believe it's hers for the asking.  

        As a long-time Democratic voter, I did not feel that way about any of the several Democratic candidates last time.  Secretary Clinton was not in the first half of my favorites in that primary field.

      •  Yeah. She has a proven track record (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mightymouse, Sunspots

        of losing.  But hey, it's her right to be president because she paid her dues to the establishment.

  •  Can you summarize (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Any non-candidates message?

    If you are against sane gun regulations then by definition you support 30,000 deaths a year by firearms.

    by jsfox on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:23:28 PM PDT

    •  Well, what he'll do is... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      ...just say something about his favored non-candidate like, "better the lives of the working class" or something simplistic, without giving an indication of how it's electorally or politically possible given the current Congress or electorate. He's got that escape hatch ready. When you're against the establishment in such a hopeless case as our present two-party system, it's a relatively easy thing to not apply your own rules of judgment to yourself.

      it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

      by Addison on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:31:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  25 words (10+ / 0-)

    Hillary Clinton believes that technocratic solutions to economic problems, determined by Democrat-leaning financial sector operators, should compliment an aggressive foreign policy and social issue progression.

    it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

    by Addison on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:25:34 PM PDT

  •  You really spent a day watching cable news? (4+ / 0-)

    That says way more about you than it does about what anyone else wants to do (even if it involves becoming President).

    ... Dollars to donuts, Hillary didn't spend a day watching cable news. I have no idea what she did, but the saddest part of your post is that you think a penchant for being President is all she has to offer.

    She has demonstrated skill and ability in every position she has ever held! There is nothing "sad" about that.

    You can go almost anywhere you want if you just keep walking

    by tharu1 on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:26:32 PM PDT

  •  Why should anyone be forced to condense (5+ / 0-)

    Their message or worldview into 25 words? The world is a complicated place. I think trying to turn yourself is for the likes of Sarah Palin and her fans, not for serious adults looking to fix serious adult problems.

    In alcohol's defense, I've done some incredibly stupid things while completely sober too. - Ford Mandalay

    by Fordmandalay on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:27:33 PM PDT

  •  I have great respect for HRC (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dumbo, mightymouse, schumann, wu ming

    but I have the exact same quibbles I had with her in 2008.

    She's not fit to be president.  And I think she'd be a terrible president for Democrats.

    Bill was the best Republican president we ever had.  She would not even measure up to him.

  •  She's not even running yet (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Radiowalla, Jeremimi

    Why should she explain why she wants to be President when she hasn't even decided to run yet?

    Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre.

    by Sky Net on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:31:37 PM PDT

  •  Neoliberal imperialist. (6+ / 0-)

    "America is the Terror State. The Global War OF Terror is a diabolical instrument of Worldwide conquest."

    by BigAlinWashSt on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:33:22 PM PDT

  •  Is it supposed to be a bad thing that... (5+ / 0-)

    you can't fit her philosophy in a fortune cookie?

    Art is the handmaid of human good.

    by joe from Lowell on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:35:22 PM PDT

  •  She approves and does not condone (8+ / 0-)

    NSA spying on citizens which is not happening.

  •  Even though Secretary has not announced, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    there are rather powerful people who wish to be aligned with her (possible) candidacy.  

    To political junkies, that would imply alignment with substance, with content, and not with mere celebrity.  

    IMO it would be useful to hear a large representative sample -- from many different kinds of Congressional districts / U.S. counties -- of Democratic chairs as a gauge of enthusiasm for potential Democratic candidates.  

    It's a strong hunch that Secretary Clinton's support would be significant in such a survey.

    •  The politically powerful like to be with a winner (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      because they want the rewards that come with backing a winner.  It's about their self-interest, not her qualifications as a candidate.

      Those who repeat that she's the inevitable winner are attempting to make it a self-fulfilling prophecy. The world of political players and even many voters like to be with the winner. The predictions of her victory are nothing more than nervous campaign appeals to prevent serious challengers from gaining momentum.

      •  I guess that depends on her potential (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        supporters, among whom will be huge voting blocks of people who are quite discerning and not swayed solely by celebrity.

        For my part, I'd stray from a word like "inevitable," as it doesn't really apply to politics, which can be very fickle.  Again, I feel the survey of a diverse group of county Democratic chairs could offer us a keen set of operative insights on the 2014 and 2016 election cycles.

  •  Hillary Clinton is a middle of the road... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mightymouse, Chi, Sunspots, claude

    Neoliberal politician just like most of the elected Democrats.

    I sing praises in the church of nonsense, but in my heart I'm still an atheist, demanding sense of all things.

    by jbou on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:43:29 PM PDT

  •  Just as Lois Griffin that Family Guy episode: (0+ / 0-)




    But mostly she'll just stand there quietly, looking like the only adult in the room, as her opponents all tear each other apart with screams of Benghazi!!!!  IRS!!!! Immigrants!!!!!

    It will be a cakewalk to a landslide for her.

  •  She's getting a free advert from an NBC miniseries (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dumbo, Chi, Sunspots

    So, if you vote Democrat no matter what their real ideology is, have fun with another neoliberal douchebag dragging the country down.

    Obama: self-described Republican; backed up by right-wing policies

    by The Dead Man on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:57:35 PM PDT

  •  Hillary Clinton confronting Obama (3+ / 0-)

    in the first debate.

  •  Compare and contrast: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mightymouse, Radiowalla

    Hillery v Christie, Paul, and Rubio.

  •  Her top issue was universal health care. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Chi, Wee Mama, wu ming

    After the '93 loss on the healthcare bill she stopped talking about universal healthcare almost entirely. She focused on "prescription drugs for seniors" and protecting medicare and social security because those issues are safe and appeal to a demographic that votes in high numbers.

    I'm not sure what it says about a person that they stop publicly advocating their #1 issue for over a decade because of one high profile loss, but I don't think that's the kind of person I want to be President.

    •  Also, too, Iraq. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Zack from the SFV, wu ming

      Obama likely passed that litmus test because he didn't have to take it, but anyone who failed it will not be my first choice in a primary.

      it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

      by Addison on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 07:18:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Just to nitpick (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        emorej a Hong Kong, Chi, Sunspots, wu ming

        Obama campaigned against the Iraq war and spoke at an anti-war rally while it was being debated in DC. So he passed the test because he spoke out publicly at the same time others were voting for it.

        But if you want to talk about other issues, the other big one is the fact that the most important action of her career on the greatest challenge of our time, climate change, is to let the oil industry rig the Keystone XL pipeline environmental study. It's the biggest legitimate scandal of Obama's administration, even though it gets little attention, and it implies some pretty ugly things about how she would relate to corporate special interests as President.

  •  No problem. (7+ / 0-)

    Government is a powerful tool for improving the lives of people in need, so you need someone who understands how to wield that tool.

    Did I get in under the word limit?

    You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

    by Rich in PA on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 07:15:15 PM PDT

  •  Who said she was the best we can come up with? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Oh yeah, cable news.

    Maybe your real question should be, 'Is spending another day watching cable news the best way to spend my time that I can come up with?'

    It's really incredible. The 2016 election cycle is 7 years away and you've already, most assuredly, had your candidate assigned for you.

    Are you really that subservient?

    People telling us who's electable and who's not is nothing but black propaganda. And it will only work as long as people like you allow it to.

  •  How about six words (0+ / 0-)

    Probably Obama light
    Might be better

    Touch all that arises with a spirit of compassion. An activist seeks to change opinion.

    by Mindful Nature on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 07:34:41 PM PDT

  •  A fresh-yet-experienced approach. (0+ / 0-)

    Tough yet tender. Steely-toed yet dewy-eyed. Poker-faced, yet open-hearted.

    She really should start to define herself in some way.

    "I was a big supporter of waterboarding" - Dick Cheney 2/14/10 UID: 8519

    by Bob Love on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 07:49:25 PM PDT

  •  can you summarize any politician's worldview (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    in 25 words or less?

    Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
    Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights for support in dealing with grief.

    by TrueBlueMajority on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 08:10:30 PM PDT

  •  Let's see (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Chi, Sunspots

    I want to continue to support large corporations like Walmart that remove livable wage jobs while having a PR process that pretends I'm progressive.

    That's 24 words. Pretty close.

  •  HRC's strength, pro's, importance, opponent (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Chi, claude

    In 2008 it took Obama’s exceptional charisma, money and organization to narrowly beat Hillary. Hillary would be a stronger primary candidate in 2016 than 2008 because of her

    (a) 2008 appeal to primary voters bouncing back to closely lose a marathon after losing her initial “inevitability”,

    (b) gaining campaign experience (as a candidate and user of consultants) in that campaign (after two relatively easy New York State campaigns),

    (c) retaining her Party establishment influence by becoming a loyal senior member of the Obama administration, and by having Bill play such a visible and effective role in Obama's 2012 re-election campaign (which Bill could probably do again for Hillary in 2016),

    (d) strengthening her “foreign policy CV” (and her “not just Bill’s wife” profile among non-political junkies who do not live in New York) through her performance as Secretary of State,

    (e) being the Democratic woman with by far the most relevant experience at a time when a woman nominee is even more overdue, and the Republicans have tripled-down on their “anti-women” agenda.

    Evaluating Hillary’s desirability as nominee from a Progressive perspective entails balancing a number of conflicting concerns.  Likelihood of winning the general election is a big point in her favor, especially if there is any coat-tail effect (such as with women voters in swing districts).

    The numbers of Progressives, Blue Dogs and Republicans in the Senate and House will have more impact on most federal policies than the difference between most potential Democratic Presidents.  But I suspect that Hillary’s core personality (to the extent that anybody can retain one after so many years in national politics) is less instinctively compromising and patient than Obama’s, and I consider this an attraction of Hillary in this era of Republican fanaticism and urgent tipping points. (By the way, if Obama is pressured by 'angry Black man' stereotypes to err in the opposite direction, and if Hillary is pressured by 'weak or shrill woman' stereotypes to err in the opposite direction, then hopefully Hillary's experience as Secretary of State will reduce the power and the effect of this pressure on her).

    Progressives need to unite relatively early behind a primary candidate who could show the entire political class the popularity of Progressive positions, and could pressure Hillary to adopt some of these positions.  For me, the top issues are

    1. Climate/Carbon/Keystone,
    2. Political Spending/Financial Industry Abuses/Income Inequality, and
    3. Transparency/Unilateral Executive/Militarism.
    The Progressive candidate does not need to be a potential winner (in fact, the very fact that a particular Progressive candidate could not win might liberate many primary voters to cast “message” votes for that candidate). This candidate would need to be unafraid of criticizing and annoying Hillary, Bill Barack and the Democratic Party establishment to the point of burning bridges with them (BTW, Elizabeth Warren can probably get more legislation passed if she does not burn those bridges at this time). Two individuals whose public profiles seem to me would fit smoothly into this role are
    Russ Feingold,
    Barbara Lee.
  •  Hillary believes in (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    power for the Democratic party. What that power would ultimately be used for is of less relevance. I do tend to believe that, unlike Obama, she does have an honest contempt for the Republican party, which is something I'll be looking for in a candidate.

    In 2008 I was an anybody-but-Hillary type. I think it speaks to some of Obama's failings as a leader that she doesn't continue to disgust me.

  •  It takes a vast right-wing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    conspiracy to raze a village, you child! What difference at this point does it make? Put that Weiner away.

  •  Hillary wants to improve the lives of women and (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Radiowalla, voicemail

    children around the world.  Without doing that, we're sunk as a planet.  

    Shine like the humblest star.

    by ljm on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 08:59:02 PM PDT

  •  I will NOT vote for Hillary (0+ / 0-)

    I dislike her deeply, in the core of my being.
    It feels like,... like she and I were enemies back in the old neighborhood when we were kids. It feels personal.
    I don't think I'm the only one who feels that way about her.
     I also don't trust her. I don't trust her judgement or her integrity or her wisdom.
    And I don't trust her to lead in a dangerous world.

    I hope there's enough of us who feel like I do to derail her nomination, if she goes for it. Hope theres enough of us and we're heard.

    I didn't vote for her husband either.
    And everything I perceived and feared about his character and leadership proved true, to our continuing detriment.

    No, I won't vote for her.

    •  I don't feel that strongly but (0+ / 0-)

      I can't forgive her for sitting next to Richard Mellon Scaife at the Pittsburgh Times P.U. — the same Richard Mellon Scaife who bankrolled the smear campaign that included accusing her of murdering Vince Foster — to attack Barack Obama for the trumped-up Rev. Wright non-scandal, smugly saying SHE would have left that church immediately. Never mind that Wright's remark was taken out of context and twisted by the same right-wing smear machine that slimed Hillary, that it was a decade earlier, and that Obama hadn't even been in the room when the remark was made.

      When you are so desperate to win a primary that you hook up with right-wing lie-spreaders to smear someone with deliberate falsehoods, I don't trust you.

      Also Mark Penn.

      Ed FitzGerald for governor Of Ohio. Women's lives depend on it.

      by anastasia p on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 11:08:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  So, you didn't vote, voted for Perot, or Bush Sr.? (0+ / 0-)

      I'm from the Elizabeth Warren wing of the Democratic Party

      by voicemail on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 06:58:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I voted (0+ / 0-)

        I've voted in every election since I was of age to vote.
        With 3 exceptions, I've always voted a straight Democratic ticket, deep down the ballot.
        I voted Green Party instead of Clinton twice and instead of K. Ellison for his first term.

        My reasoning was that I was certain Clinton would be a disaster and I was concerned about Ellison having some financial scandal waiting to explode. Ellison has since won me over 1,000 percent. There is no one I've voted for who has represented my interests and hopes more then Keith Ellison has. I voted for Ellison enthusiastically for his 2nd term.

        I'd like to point out that I was fully aware that Clinton was going to carry Minnesota irregardless of my extreme dislike for him and his positions, and that Ellison was a lock in his district anyway, so I chose to try to help the Green Party improve their numbers so they could get federal funding.

        Perot was a dangerous nutcase and I have to date, refused to vote for ANY republican EVER.
        Still, the Democratic Party has to earn my vote if they want my vote. I will NOT vote for them only because the other guys are worse.
        Some will berate me for what they may view as my less than pragmatic approach to voting. But they will not dissuade me from voting for those I support or voting against those I oppose.

  •  What an awful diary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    She hasnt even declared for president yet. She has no campaign site describing her world view and her positions on issues, yet the attack diaries have already begun! I'm actually worried for her if she does run because she seems to get equal hate from the left as she does on the right.

  •  resistance is futile (0+ / 0-)

    there is no alternative.

    fall in line.

  •  I don't hate her, but... (0+ / 0-)

    Here in the DC area we have C-SPAN radio, and in early 2008 I heard her giving a campaign speech that repulsed me. It included this phrase: "I am so ready to lead."

    Anyone saying this about themselves out loud - especially into a microphone before a crowd - would have turned me off. (Naturally, it's difficult to imagine Barack Obama saying it, although anyone running for president for the first time must think this way about himself or herself. It's only one of the ways he showed himself to be a shrewder candidate.)

    If she runs, I wonder whether she'll repeat this sort of thing on the stump. Gawd, I hope not. It's so crass; it's no better than saying "It's my turn, dammit." Of course she has executive experience now, but I would hate for her to go unchallenged in the primaries (or challenged by someone credible but only briefly, like Bill Bradley versus Gore in 2000).

  •  Too early to know. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    But Clinton has a history, as seen in her 2008 primary run. DLC all the way. So I ask once again:

    We elect Hilary Clinton. Then what?

    The Democratic Party has a serious series of structural problems, starting with the Third Way/DLC/New Democrats/Centrists/Moderate Conservatives. Until they are wrested from power, nothing...and I mean nothing will improve.

    The Grand Bargain must be stopped at all costs to protect the 99%.

    by cybrestrike on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 02:43:34 AM PDT

  •  Do not want to vote for Hillary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I don't want Bill around. No dynastic heirs. That means no Chelsea, no Caroline either. And certainly no more Bushes or Cheneys!

    I will fantasize about an O'Malley/Warren ticket, however--or vice-versa. Or Alan Grayson. Or Rush Holt (yes!) or a handful of blood, new perspectives, new ideas, new wisdom.

    No more equivocating, smooth talking, weasel words and loophole-finding, no more business as usual, no more erasing of the contributions of the working class to whole society.

    All a fantasy.

    •  "No dynastic heirs." (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      marina, Jeremimi

      You seem to have a number of reasons for wanting to support someone other than Hillary Clinton for president, and that's all well and good, but the "no dynastic heirs" part sticks in my craw a bit. To call Hillary Clinton a "dynastic heir" has some really troublesome implications, to my mind.

      First, it suggests that she is otherwise not qualified to run for the office based on her own accomplishments. That's far too dismissive of the fact that the only other potential 2016 candidate with a stronger resumé would be our current Vice President, and even that's only because he served for a longer time in the Senate than she did.

      Second, it suggests that simply by virtue of her husband having had the job, she should be disqualified from consideration for President. That's disrespectful of her status as a human being independent from her husband, as it implies that her presidency would be nothing more than an extension of his.

      Like I said, you've got other reasons for opposing her candidacy, and that's all well and good, but let's not denigrate an accomplished woman by dismissing her as a "dynastic heir" along the lines of a George W. Bush.

      "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

      by JamesGG on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 08:23:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Call her connected then (0+ / 0-)

        I'm not denigrating her at all. I have no problem with her qualifications. I'm just tired of the same old enmeshed groups being in power.

        I like quite a few things about Hillary Clinton, very much. Other things, not so much. That is all.

  •  Three words. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The. Supreme. Court.

    To be honest, very little else takes priority. This is the brass ring. A 5-4 court just brought back Jim Crown. If progress is your goal, then flipping the court is a light year jump back in the right direction. Hillary expands the map, and will do monster numbers in key demographics Dems struggle with.

    Also, locking down the presidency for another term or two will further decimate the number of white, over 63, Republican voters, and add another 4-8 million new Hispanic voters to the rolls.

    More of us are born, more of them die.

    I don't care if we spend the last two minutes of the game downing the ball to run out the clock. A Hillary presidency will deliver fatal blows to the Republican party and the conservative movement by doing little more than winning.

    I've seen some hardboiled eggs in my time, but you're about twenty minutes

    by harrylimelives on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 06:30:04 AM PDT

  •  I It may be wishful thinking but (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I think Hillary might surprise us all and model herself after EW.  She will realize she needs the Democratic wing of the Democratic party to win.  She will never be a Eugene McCarthy but she must see the direction the party is going....Progressive,

    "Republicans are the party that says that government doesn't work, then they get elected and prove it."-- PJ O'Rourke

    by nocynicism on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 06:46:34 AM PDT

  •  well, Obama stood for hope, change and ending (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    politics as usual.

    How'd that work out for us?

    If Hillary runs, I'll vote for her. The rightwingnuts have been trying to destroy her for 25 years and so far she's grinned at them while kicking them in the nuts--repeatedly. I rather like that about her.

    If you'd like to know more about her, I recommend Carl Bernstein's biography of her. I forget the name but it would be easy enough to look up. According to Bernstein's research, she is actually to left of Bill on many issues and was frustrated with his fiscal conservatism, especially concerning his buying into the GOP's war on the deficit.

    She's an interesting, extremely smart, tough cookie. She's not going to change politics, but neither did Obama. At least she doesn't over-promise.

    "This is a center-left country. Democrats can act that way and win. In fact, they must." -- Markos

    by cassandraX on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 08:00:44 AM PDT

  •  Hillary (0+ / 0-)

    will be a winner,the most important attribute.

    She will govern similar to President Obama.
    She will turn the SCOTUS blue.
    She will be light years better than any GOP nominee.
    She will be the most experienced President ever.

    She is smart,fiesty,and realistic.
    As someone said above, her election would bury the GOP for a long time.
    We need another 8 years of a dem to really make Obamacare a strong functioning popular program.
    And that will cement the dems as the party of the people for another generation.

    And she will break the glass ceiling for women,and clear the path for Gillebrand or Warren or other dem women to take the helm.

  •  You mean (0+ / 0-)

    something as meaningful as Hope and Change?

    We decided to move the center farther to the right by starting the whole debate from a far-right position to begin with. - Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay

    by denise b on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 02:39:24 PM PDT

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