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DailyKos sólo está interesado en los votantes que hablan inglés.

Cuando Wendy Davis llevó su filibustero, nació el movimiento "Puesto de Texas Women With." Lo primero que pensé fue:

"¿Será este movimiento inclusivo de mujeres que hablan espanol, o será un movimiento solo de mujeres blancas de Texas"?"

La razón por la que Texas está llegando a su alcance por los votos democráticos no es porque el Estado tiene la mayoria de votantes blancos.

Kya Daikykos sirf angrezi bolne waale matadatt ke liye kaam karta hai?

Kuch roz pehle, jab Wendy Davis ne apna abhiyaan chaalu kiya Texas ki mahilaon ke liye, ek naya daur shuru hua. Meri ruchi sirf ek hi prashn pe thehri hui thi--kya yeh abhiyaan speni bhash abolne waale matadatt tak pohchega; yadi yeh sirf angrezi bolne-waali gori mahilaon ke liye hi bana rahega?

Aur maze ki baat yeh hai, Texas prajatantric parti ke daayre meh aaj-kal aane laga hai een hi speni bhasha bolne waale matadatt ke karaan.

Kwani DailyKos yajali masilahi ya wapigaji kura ambao wanafahamu Kiingereza peke yake?

Wendy Davis alipoongoza filibuster, kampeni ya “Stand With Texas Women” ndipo lilizaliwa. Kitu cha kwanza nilichofikiria kilikuwa:

“Huu ‘msimamo’ utazingatia wanawake wa lugha ya Kispania pia; ama itakuwa tu “kusimama na wanawake wazungu wa Texas”?

Sababu ambayo jimbo la Texas limeongezea kura za Democtratic siyo kwamba wapigaji kura wazungu wameongezeka.

Is DailyKos only interested in English speaking voters?  

When Wendy Davis led her filibuster, the "Stand With Texas Women" campaign was born.  The first thing I thought was:

"Will this 'stand' include Spanish speaking women; or will it amount to: "stand with Texas white women"?"  

The reason that Texas is coming into reach for Democratic votes is not because the state is increasing the numbers of white voters.  

¿Quieren afectar los votantes de mujeres hispana en todo nuestro pais?  Entonces dejame pregunatar algo: ¿Cuántos votantes de mujeres hispana alcanzará el DailyKos? ¿Cuántos votantes que no hablan inglés no serán conscientes de los candidatos demócratas que apoya el DailyKos? ¿Cuántos de ellos serán rechazados porque su lenguaje es ignorado? ¿Cuántos no votarán en absoluto, o votar por los republicanos, simplemente porque no tienen un idea de lo que los demócratas tienen ellos mismos quieren tambien?

La demografía de los EE.UU. está cambiando. Tenemos más los votantes registrados que no serán alcanzados por los sitios web, radio y televisión que se presenta en Inglés. En estos momentos, Texas presenta este problema en términos de acceso a los votantes hispanos. Idiomas asiáticos ya están presentes en números notables en varios estados, ciudades y regiones.

Kya Dailykos yeh speni bhasha bolne waale matadatt ko pahuchna chahta hai? Kya hum sirf angrezi bolne waale log ke saat hi sambandh aur samwaadh rakhna chahte hai? Kya hum ne soocha hai, een logo ko nazar andaaz kar ke humari kya paristithi hogi? Aisa bhi ho sakta hai ki speni bhasha bolne waale matadatt aur humare prajatantric neta ke vichaar milte ho, par bhasha ke karaan unka samwaadh hi nahi hota? Kitne toh aise hoge, joh jitni bhi koshish karre, humari parti unko aur unki kahaaniyon ko andekha karti hai. Kitne prajatantra-vadiyon ko mata denge, kyun ki humari parti ne unko undekha karne ki jaise aadat hi hoh gayi hai.

Humare desh ki pratisatta badal rahi hai--kaafi saalon se badal ti aayi hai--humari adhisankya humme raydio ya tv ya yaha nahi milegi. Aaj hum yeh prashn Texas meh dekh sakte hai speni bhasha bolne waale matadatt ko leh kar. Esiya ki kahi bhashayen adhik sankyhaon meh humare desh aur kahi sheheron meh dekhaiye deti hai.

Je, DailyKos kweli wanataka kufikia hizo kura za Kispania huko Texas na kote nchini? Je, zitapatikana kwa kuongea Kiingereza peke yake? Ni wapigaji kura wangapi wazungumza Kispania ambao DailyKos watawafikia? Ni wangapi ambao watapotezwa sababu website haionyeshi Kispania? Ni wangapi hawatafahamu kwamba wagombeaji wa Democratic wanajali huduma zao sababu hawaongeli lugha ya Kiingereza? Wa ngapi watageuzwa sababu ya lugha wanayoongea? Wangapi hawatapiga kura kamwe ama wapigie Republican kura kwa sababu tu hawafahamu yale wagombeaji wa Democratic wanacho?

Demographics huku Marekani zinageuka. Wapigaji kura wengi hawatapatikana na website, redio, na televisheni zinazopaza kwa Kiingereza tu. Sasa hivi, jimbo la Texas linaangalia tatizo hili la kuwasaka wapigaji kura wanaoongea Kispania. Lugha za Asia zishawakilishwa katita miji na mikoa mbali mbali.

Does DailyKos want to reach the Spanish speaking voters of Texas and the rest of the country?  Will they be reached by speaking English only?  How many Spanish speaking voters will DailyKos reach?  How many will the website lose by not speaking Spanish?  How many non-English speaking voters will be unaware of Democratic candidates that support what they care about?  How many of them will be turned away because their language is ignored?  How many will not vote at all or vote Republican simply because they had no idea what Democrats have that they want?

The demographics of the USA are changing.  More and more registered voters will not be reached by websites, radio & TV that are presented in English.  Right now, Texas presents this problem in terms of accessing Spanish speaking voters.  Asian languages are already present in noticeable numbers in several states, cities and regions.  

El reto en frente de este sitio es para comunicarse con los votantes. No todos los votantes estarán escuchando o hablando en Inglés. Así que, la manera que responde este sitio determinará su eficacia.  Ha no respondar en absoluto es, de hecho, una respuesta.

El DailyKos dice: "Inglés es lo suficientemente bueno" o "Espanol no es importante" o "esto no se puede arreglar" o "ignorarlo y esperar que se va"? ¿O DailyKos puede cambiar con los tiempos?  Lo que deja es la cuestión de lo que define la efectividad de esta web.
Humari chunnauti een logo koh pohochne meh rahegi, hum is smasya ka hall kaise nikalenge. Yadi hum iss prashn aur sujhav ko dhyan nahi denge, woh hi ek prakar ka jawaab hoga.

Kya hum kahenge, "Yeh prashn mahatvapurna nahi hai", ya "angrezi se hi him kaam chala lenge" ya "Iss samasya ka koi hall nahi hai", ya hum angrezi ki jali se nikalenge? Yeh jaga sayhogta aur samwaadh se chalti hai, humara uddesh hai humari jantantri parti ko sahayata dena. Ya hum angrezi seh alag bhasha bolne waale matadatton seh sahayta aur dayri lenge, ya hum iss sujhav ko nahi apnaayenge.

Changamoto sasa ni website hii kuwasiliana na wapigaju kura. Siyo wote abao wanafahamu ama wanazungumza kiingereza. Ufanini utaamuliwa na kulingana na vile website hii itawatumikia. Kutokukabiliana ni tendo la jibu pia.

Je, DailyKos watasema “Kiingereza hakitoshi” ama “suala hili si muhimu” ama “tatizo hili hakiwezi kurekebishwa” ama “tupuuze tatzo hili tukitumaini litaondoka”? Ama DailyKos watageuza utumizi wa Kiingereza kipekee? Jumuiya ya DailyKos linalogadi chama cha Democtactic litawafikia wapigaji kura na kupata maoni yao kwa lugha mbali mbali – ama halitafaulu? Swala linalobaki ni, kitu gani kitachofafanua ufanisi wa website hii?

The challenge is in front of this site is to communicate with voters.  Not all voters will be listening or speaking in English.  So, how this site responds will determine its effectiveness.  Not responding at all, is in fact a response.  

Will DailyKos say "English is good enough" or "this is not important" or "this cannot be fixed" or "ignore it and hope that it goes away"?  Or will DailyKos change from English only?  The community collaboritve blog model of DailyKos serving the Democratic party, will either effectively reach voters and take diaries from voters in multiple languages - or it will not.  Which leaves the question of what defines this website's effectiveness?

¿Cómo pueden colaborar el DailyKos con idiomas distintos del Inglés? Los votantes están ahí. ¿Qué hará este sitio web?

Yo no hablo español o en hindi, pero pedí traducciones para los dos. Este mensaje se presenta sin una versión en Inglés, solo para demostrar la experiencia de los votantes demócratas que no hablan Inglés.

Los electores que no son accesibles en idioma Inglés van a votar por alguien. ¿Que va hacer el DailyKos para escuchar lo que quieren y para ayudarles a conseguir su necesidades con un candidato demócrata?

Inglés sólo para los que hablan Inglés es ridículo.   La gente merece algo mejor.  Todos.  Y todos ellos no tienen que saber Inglés para encontrarse recibido en el Partido Demócrata.

Hum kya kar sakte hai, een matadataon se samvaadh jaari rakhne ho? Hum unki bhashaon ko kaise sahayta denge?

Main hindi, swahili ya speni bhasha nahi bolta hoon, lehkin maine een sab keh anuwaad maange.  Yeh dayri aap ko een matadata keh anubhavo se milana chahti hai.

Yeh matadataon joh angrezi nahi bolte hai, woh jinhe bhi apna mata denge, hum kya kar sakte hai unko humari prajatantri parti se milane ko?

Angrezi ko chod do, humari duniya badal rahi hai. Par yeh sirf ek hi karaan nahi hai angrezi chod ne ka. Een log ek sacche prajatantri samvaadh ke adhikari hai.

DailyKos itaweza aje kujihusisha na, kuwateka, kuwasikiza, na kuwapea msaada – wakitumia lugha zaidi ya Kiingereza? Wapigaji kura wanangoja kufukiwa. Website hii itafanyaje?

Mimi sifahami Kispania, wala Kihindi au Kiswahili, lakini niliomba tafsiri zote. Mwandiko huu waonyesha uzoefu wa wapigaji kura wa Democratic ambao hawaelewi Kiingereza.

Hao wapigaji kura ambao hawafahamu Kiingereza bado watampigia mtu kura. DailyKos watafana nini kutambua wanalohitaji na kulipata kwa kumpigia kura mgombeaji wa Democratic?

Tutumie zaidi ya Kiingereza sababu Kiingereza kipekee ni ujinga. Na kwa sababu siyo lazima kila mtu afahamu Kiingereza ili astahili ubora ama asikizwe katika chama cha Democratic.

How can DailyKos engage with, draw in, hear from and support - in languages other than English?  The voters are there to be reached.  What will this website do?  

I do not speak either Spanish, Hindi or Swahili, but I asked for translations for all of them.  This post is presented to demonstrate the experience of the Democratic voters who do not speak English.

Those voters who are not reachable by English language are going to vote for somebody.  What will DailyKos do to hear what they want and to help them get that by voting for a Democratic candidate?

Go beyond English, because English-only is ridiculous. And because people deserve better, that all of them don't have to know English to find themselves echoed in the Democratic Party.

Entonces, ¿qué estamos haciendo aquí?

Hum kya kar rahe hai yaaha?

Basi, tunafanya nini hapa?

So, what are we doing here?

Originally posted to sexgenderbody on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 05:00 PM PDT.

Also republished by America Latina.

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Comment Preferences

  •  "DailyKos" is anybody who chooses to (8+ / 0-)

    publish diaries on DailyKos. DailyKos is precisely as interested in spanish-speaking voters as spanish-speaking contributors are interested in DailyKos.

    To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

    by UntimelyRippd on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 05:15:20 PM PDT

  •  BTW, if you want to get some traction, (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bob Love, Kevskos, PhilK, Mayfly, NWTerriD, Chi

    consider posting your question in the currently active, "Ask Me Anything About DailyKos" diary, hosted by Meteor Blades.

    To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

    by UntimelyRippd on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 05:18:08 PM PDT

  •  Interesting question with an obvious answer: (12+ / 0-)

    Post in any language you like, and good luck.

    "I was a big supporter of waterboarding" - Dick Cheney 2/14/10 UID: 8519

    by Bob Love on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 05:23:27 PM PDT

  •  I might try to read diaries in Spanish or (6+ / 0-)

    Italian or French or Latin, but I'll not be able to respond except in English and I'd have missed a whole lot. I don't even recognize some of the language you use.

    I think people should post diaries in both English and another language if they want to.

    Maybe you think Kos should have parallel sites? I doubt that there would be a great response to those unless he tried to employ staff like Huffington Post.

    “liberals are the people who think that cruelty is the worst thing that we do” --Richard Rorty Also, I moved from NYC, so my username is inaccurate.

    by jeff in nyc on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 05:26:42 PM PDT

    •  Funny...I can also try to READ diaries in French, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jeff in nyc

      Spanish, Italian, or Latin, but I, too, would have to respond in English. My ability to speak them (except for Latin, which I studied but never spoke, and which i mainly use for insulting people on Twitter) has dwindled to baby talk, basically.

      I think it might require a huge effort to attract non-English speakers to DKos. And there are translation sites, some much better than others, for those who wish to use them.

      I do think that TX Dems should be encouraged to do outreach with Spanish-speaking volunteers or campaign workers. I remember seeing (in an election diary) the comment that "Voting was not the Hispanic culture in Texas," or something like that.

      I went to school on 91st Street =) Are you a native NYer?

      "...Males are biologically driven to go out and hunt giraffes.” —Newt Gingrich in 1995

      by BadKitties on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 09:13:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  A few weeks ago another Spanish speaking... (8+ / 0-)

    ... diarist appeared on the site.  I used Google translate to get the gist of what the speaker was saying and posted the translations into comments.  I received a comment from a member who does translation for a living which said that he/she thought the machine translation was terrible (and that thankfully means that his or her job is secure for the time being).  This isn't to say that your idea doesn't have merit, it's simply to point out that we can't necessarily use machine translation and assume that we will be able to effectively communicate with each other.

    Looking through the bent backed tulips, To see how the other half lives, Looking through a glass onion - John Lennon and Paul McCartney

    by Hey338Too on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 05:26:46 PM PDT

    •  Speaking as someone who often uses (7+ / 0-)

      language with considerable care and precision, I can tell you that the very last thing I want is to be considered responsible for the output of a machine translator of my prose.

      To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

      by UntimelyRippd on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 05:40:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  An example using your first section: (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kalmoth, wu ming, ZenTrainer, Chi, kurt

      This is what you said in English:

      Is DailyKos only interested in English speaking voters?  

      When Wendy Davis led her filibuster, the "Stand With Texas Women" campaign was born.  The first thing I thought was:

      "Will this 'stand' include Spanish speaking women; or will it amount to: "stand with Texas white women"?"  

      The reason that Texas is coming into reach for Democratic votes is not because the state is increasing the numbers of white voters.  

      This is what Google Translate says when it translates from the Spanish version:
      DailyKos is only interested in the quein voters speak English

      When Wendy Davis took his filibuster movement was born "Because Women With Texas." My first thought was:

      "Will this movement inclusive of women who speak Spanish, or will be a movement of white women only Texas"? "

      The reason that Texas is reaching its scope by democratic votes is because the state has a majority of white voters.

      Which could leave some people a little confused.

      Looking through the bent backed tulips, To see how the other half lives, Looking through a glass onion - John Lennon and Paul McCartney

      by Hey338Too on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 05:47:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The machine translators have trouble... (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kalmoth, Hey338Too, ER Doc, Chi, kurt

        ....with idiomatic language. I speak Spanish (barely). I learned from Mexicans who taught me what they spoke. I go to Central America and I'm understood, but they give me some looks when I use, "No hay de que" instead of "de nada" for "you're welcome."

        I have a Colombian girlfriend. She speaks to me in English and I try to answer her in Spanish, over Skype and messaging. Some of those conversations are a riot to anyone who is fluent in both languages (as is her daughter). But we get by just fine.

        I use the translators as a last resort to either learn a new word, or try to phrase something better. Also: Garbage in, garbage out.

        "Wealthy the Spirit which knows its own flight. Stealthy the Hunter who slays his own fright. Blessed is the Traveler who journeys the length of the Light."

        by CanisMaximus on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 07:19:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  There is no good online translator (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Hey338Too, kalmoth, ER Doc, kurt

      They help in getting an idea of what is being said, but you can never take them word for word, and it doesn't matter what you use.

      None are so hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free. The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies. -Johann von Goethe

      by gjohnsit on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 06:27:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  And you can't just use any human, either (6+ / 0-)

      I can't speak for the Hindi or Swahili (or is it Kinyarwanda?) in the diary, but the Spanish, while very serviceable, isn't at a level that a native speaker would enjoy reading.  I don't say that as criticism, but to note that efforts to reach non-English-speakers (readers, I should say) have to be done at a very high fluency level or they're likely not to be effective.  

      You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

      by Rich in PA on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 07:42:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  yes to that... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Hey338Too
      machine translation was terrible
      Except when it's funny.
  •  There Could Be Value in a Spanish Language (11+ / 0-)

    group and/or ongoing diary series, bringing in its own audience.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 05:30:54 PM PDT

  •  There have been diaries posted in Spanish (11+ / 0-)

    with no English translations provided. And we've had some great conversations within them.

    I've participated in and learned from diaries that discuss Latin American political developments and how these can affect us here in the USA.

    In other diaries, when topical, members will slip in and out of Spanish, especially to make a point about an issue, like voters rights and immigration policy.

    Can we do more to reach out to Latino readers in particular? We could. We have a lot of Latino members, but there is no El Centro Del Kos like Black Kos has its front porch. I definitely see the usefulness of something like that.

    I'm sure if you'd like to start that, others would join in.

    I certainly would.

    © grover


    So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

    by grover on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 05:36:49 PM PDT

  •  Durante el DailyKos Caucus en NN'13, (13+ / 0-)

    este cuestion se elevó y Marcus dijo que si hay algunas personas que quieren escriber en español, ellos son bienvenidos a este sitio.

    Necesitamos más escritores nativos de español.

  •  El título (9+ / 0-)

    necesita corrección
    DailyKos sólo está interesado en los votantes de los quein hablan ingles

    Debe de ser:
    DailyKos sólo está interesado en los votantes que hablan inglés.

    Aquí siempre ha habido miembros que hablamos y escribimos en español, y muchos otros idiomas, pero no tiene mucho sentido escribir diarios sólo en español.  

    I do think that dailykos and Kos himself could play a role in creating some space for Hispanic engagement and registration.  

  •  А вот и нет! n/t (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    marsanges, kaliope, ER Doc
  •  That's a rather tendentious claim (5+ / 0-)

    Given the mutual unintelligibility of English and Spanish, the solution for people who want to reach Spanish-speaking voters is to set up an attractive Spanish-language website.

    You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

    by Rich in PA on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 07:28:53 PM PDT

    •  not sure... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kurt

      one thing I do feel to be definitely not necessary is Google translate "version" of Spanish - plenty of native speakers here.

      •  Google translate+alcohol=totally awesome. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kalmoth, Hey338Too, kaliope

        I'd join that group in a flash.

        You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

        by Rich in PA on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 07:45:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Here's what happens... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Rich in PA, kaliope

          if the original text of the diary is translated from English to Spanish to Swahili to Hindi to English.

          DailyKos Texas Spanish-speaking voters and the rest of the country want to achieve? They only speak English? How many Spanish speaking voters to DailyKos? How many websites lose and do not speak Spanish? Do you care about the amount of non-English speaking voters to support Democratic candidates know about it? Their language is ignored because most of them will go? Democrats do not know what they want, simply because the Republican majority did not vote at all or vote? ...
          Actually, the entropy level is surprisingly low.
          •  I use the Albanian-English sometimes... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kalmoth, kaliope

            ...because of my interest in that country's history, and you don't even need multiple translations to get extremely entertaining nonsense!

            You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

            by Rich in PA on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 07:56:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Legend has it that when one of the first (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kalmoth, Iberian

          machine translation programs was fed

          The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.
          (For the ignorant, that's a Bible quotation.)

          and send it to Russian and back, the result was

          The liquor was good, but the meat was rotten.
          Similarly
          Out of sight, out of mind
          supposedly came back from Chinese as
          Invisible idiot

          Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

          by Mokurai on Sat Aug 24, 2013 at 07:13:29 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  A propósito... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CorinaR, kurt

    Google traduccion al Español es un poco confuso.

    Traduccion inversa (Ingles - Español - Ingles) esta aqui:

    When Wendy Davis took his filibuster, a movement was born "Because Women With* Texas." My first thought was:

    "Will this movement be inclusive of women who speak Spanish, or will be a movement only of white women of Texas"? "

    The reason that Texas is reaching its reach by democratic votes is not because the state has a majority of white voters.

    *"with" did not translate into Spanish at all.

    Dear diarist, I would heartily encourage you to actually learn some foreign languages before posting diaries on language use (or non-use).

  •  I can almost, almost but not quite, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kalmoth, davehouck, kaliope

    write this in Spanish, but Markos speaks Spanish at home with his family. FWIW.

  •  This is probably a minority and unpopular opinion (5+ / 0-)

    I whole hearted agree that more of an effort needs to be made to reach voters that speak other languages ... and the map that you use is one of my favorite images to remember the arrogance of the northern countries.

    But stuff like this post irritates me.

    Spanish was my first language but I was educated in English so I think and dream in English. This post (I feel)somehow belittles people who consider themselves Hispanic or whatever because the common language used here is English and not our "native" languages. It seems to presume that speakers of other languages that care enough to come to the US, apply for and get citizenship are as monolingual as the majority of the people that are born in this country. We do not have to be apologetic because most posts here are in English if that is the language that we have in common but we do have to apologize for being condescending.

    You admit that you neither speak nor write any of the languages that you use ... why not start off that way: admitting your own deficiencies and saying how that limits your understanding or whatever. Why not ask how  different languages can be welcomed here instead of accusing others of being insensitive? To me, that would be more meaningful and respectful.

    When I go to sites that use Spanish or Portuguese or French I do not expect them to translate for me. I kinda like the challenge of figuring out what they say. Besides, it is really boring to have bilingual things when you read both languages ... unless it is a bad translation and you can have a good laugh.

    As I said, this will more than likely be a very minority opinion because Kossacks are mostly very nice sensitive people (except for the pie fights).

    "I want to live in a world where George Zimmerman offered Trayvon Martin a ride home to get him out of the rain that night." Greg Martin, Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Central Florida

    by CorinaR on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 07:44:44 PM PDT

    •  an aside about the map . . . . (5+ / 0-)
      the map that you use is one of my favorite images to remember the arrogance of the northern countries.
      An even better illustration (literally) of northern arrogance comes when one uses a world map that is NOT a Mercator Projection.  The Mercator Projection distorts the size of areas at the top and bottom of the map, making them look much larger than they really are.  In "standard" maps, that makes Europe and North America look bigger than they really are.  In a NON-Mercator projection, one can see visually that Africa and South America are actually much larger than they appear to be on a "standard" map--and Europe and North America are much smaller than they appear to be.
  •  Hmmm.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sexgenderbody, CorinaR

    What are you suggesting?  Translate all diaries into Spanish?  Start a SpanishKOS group?    Hire some Spanish FPers and intermingle Spanish with English diaries?  

    Please elaborate on how you think this would work.  

    It wasn't hard to stick this in Google Translate and add to the bottom.   If some diarists were willing to do that, it might be a start.   We'd really need to have Spanish posts separated out, though, in order for KOS to assess how much traffic it was getting, and whether it was accomplishing anything.

    ¿Qué sugieres? Traducir todos los diarios en español? Iniciar un grupo SpanishKOS? Contratar algunos FPers españoles y españolas se entremezclan con los diarios ingleses?

    Sírvanse proporcionar detalles sobre cómo piensa que esto funcionaría.

    No era difícil de seguir esto en Google Translate y agregar a la parte inferior. Si algunos cronistas estaban dispuestos a hacer eso, podría ser un comienzo. Nos gustaría realmente necesita tener puestos españoles separan, sin embargo, con el fin de KOS para evaluar la cantidad de tráfico que se estaba haciendo, y si estaba logrando nada.

    *de Google Translate.  No estoy seguro de lo bien que funciona*

    •  what I am suggesting is... (0+ / 0-)

      that the DailyKos website be real intentional and give people who use something other than English to discuss their politics - a reason to come here.

      the site is built around English-only.  I tend to think like a salesperson, so why would someone come here to DailyKos if they are looking to discuss politics in the contemporary US of A, in Spanish or any other language?

      taking the position of "come if you want to" is hardly going to do much to change that.  I don't think that this is just a thing to do, because the Spanish speaking population is not only growing, but being counted on to deliver Democratic votes.  

      expecting people to learn English or create their own space in an English-only website - seems like the least progressive / proactive / successful strategy.  operationally, it differs very little from the GOP disregard of these same voters.

      "sure, you can come if you want to" is hardly an invitation and it sure isn't much of a demonstration of esteem, valuation or inclusion.

      so, what I'm asking is that this site either do the work to add / alter / create whatever it takes to bring Spanish speaking progressives and Democrats into the conversations or be happy with whatever we get for no effort on our part whatsoever.

      I don't know all or any of the answers, but some steps would be a great start and they would differentiate the progressive offering from the conservative one.  those ideas you mention seem like good places to start.

      thanks for asking,

      ~arvan

      if you can read this...you're a terrorist

      by sexgenderbody on Fri Aug 23, 2013 at 08:47:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Aside from site navigation being solely in (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ZenTrainer

        English, there is nothing to stop someone from posting in any just about any other language, and that includes non-Roman character languages such as Chinese and Korean.

        Trying to port the user interface of the site into N other languages would not make any sense and would probably not attract many new users.

  •  Speaking for myself... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wu ming, Miggles

    During the 2012 election campaign, I was telephoning voters in three congressional districts with large Spanish-speaking populations. I certainly did not mind talking to voters who answered the phone in Spanish.

  •  Knock yourself out (0+ / 0-)

    Please feel free to set up dKos communities focused on languages other than English. That is the beauty of the site. People can set up whatever communities they want within the wider community.

    FREEDOM ISN'T FREE: That's why we pay taxes. NYC's Progressive/Reform Blog

    by mole333 on Sat Aug 24, 2013 at 05:04:02 AM PDT

  •  Is the purpose of dKos to communicate with voters? (0+ / 0-)

    I figured it was to help activists and other interested folks think through issues and discuss them. (Not all of them even live in the US, and there's no requirement that you be a US citizen and voter.) That's a somewhat different function from the local organizing. Local organizing has to include outreach in whatever languages are needed in that area -- Spanish in many places, Haitian Creole or Kirundi or Hmong in others.

    It would be lovely to be able to have wide-ranging discussions across all language barriers and political borders. Maybe someday. In the meantime, diarists write in the language of their choice. (The same is true on Facebook; my page gets postings in Spanish, Swahili, and occasionally Arabic, because I have friends around the world. Some I understand, some I don't.)

    If someone wants to post a diary here in some language other than English, as long as it's not spam, I'd be in favor of it. But "the site" doesn't control content, other than the courtesy guidelines, so "the site" can't make people write in other languages.

  •  deeply disappointed, but not at all surprised (0+ / 0-)

    I posted this diary in order to point out the great number of US voters that this site is missing impacting because of language / class inequality within the site / community itself.

    I am disappointed and saddened by the responses (and massive lack of responses) to the diary.

    for the most part, the response has been versions of:

    "they can come if they want to"

    which is little more than:

    "not my job, man"

    that shifting of responsibility from the group in power onto the group not in power, is "systemic oppression 101".  this varies only in subject matter from passing hurtles to voting   and claiming that disenfranchised voters "vote if they want to".

    this website / community acts like a bunch of white guys.

    non-English speaking activists and voters have already told us what they think of this site, by having little to do with it.

    with the indifference shown by this site, they won't come.  the activists and voters know how it feels to be "othered":

    * rendered systematically invisible by omission

    * commoditized as "latino voters" to be counted on for votes but not invited into the process for shaping activism and policy.

    why would they come here?  because they "can if they want to" ?  because "it's a free country" ?

    what they will do, is move on without this site.  like they already do.

    yeah, no kidding - it's nobody's responsibility here to go invite the people systematically "othered" by this website and community.  

    the point of this diary is to move a website and community devoted to progressive politics to examine and undo its own systematic oppression dynamics.  because those dynamics are there, even if we ignore them or say that it's up to someone else to take action to mitigate them.

    just how many progressive political changes do we expect to achieve by acting like a bunch of white guys?

    if you can read this...you're a terrorist

    by sexgenderbody on Sat Aug 24, 2013 at 08:18:05 AM PDT

    •  Massively fact-challenged (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CorinaR, kalmoth

      You clearly haven't even looked at the America Latina group, even after it republished this Diary.

      Diplomatic Affront Says Latin America: Bolivian Presidential Plane Held Captive for 13 Hour

      How Will an Openly Gay U.S. Ambassador Fare in the Dominican Republic??

      From South America to North America: A Lesson From Brazil

      Anti-Capitalist Meetup: From Detroit to Honduras and Back: Capitalists Immigrate To Usurp Rights

      GOP’S Newest Hispanic Outreach Idea: Deport Them

      You don't even seem to know who Kos/Markos Moulitsas Zuñiga) is.

      Instead of all this misplaced indignation, why don't you go and talk to the Latinos here, and ask them why they post in English?

      Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

      by Mokurai on Sat Aug 24, 2013 at 08:31:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I am wondering why you are insisting (0+ / 0-)

      Maybe this is an idea whose time has not come. Maybe this is something that is not needed.

      I don't think that language is the problem ... I am Hispanic, so are my children, siblings, nieces and nephews, my friends range from English only to Spanish only to some that speak several languages (Mandarin, Korean, German, Spanish, Portuguese and others) ... all voters or potential voters, many of who vote Dem.  Of the 50 or so people that I know fairly well, I am the only member of DKos and maybe 3-4 read occasionally. So there is a huge audience out there without resorting to translation. How do we approach them?

      Maybe a bigger problem is that translation does not solve the problem of focus. One of my fundamental understandings of language and respect is that in order to understand a language, you must first understand its silences.  In other words, take yourself and your needs out of the picture and really look at what the people with whom you want to communicate find important.

      One blog cannot be everything to everyone in every language. People need to be free to find their own niche ... and from my limited experience, most of the people I know that speak only one language (other than English, mostly) don't have the resources and ability to access computer (except at the library where they use it to look for jobs or other practical things). So does this become a teaching site or a discussion site?  Do we self censor to appeal to more people?  

      Finally ... you say

      just how many progressive political changes do we expect to achieve by acting like a bunch of white guys?
      You are making a fairly big assumption that we are all "white guys" when we are not ... I myself am a woman of color of a certain age, straight, with children, grew up in poverty, educated, with deep roots in the Hispanic community, etc. I don't think I act as a white guy ... and I know I do not act out white privilege and there are many others who don't either.  

      For some reason, you have pushed my buttons ... I hope you find this a little informative rather than offensive.

      "I want to live in a world where George Zimmerman offered Trayvon Martin a ride home to get him out of the rain that night." Greg Martin, Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Central Florida

      by CorinaR on Sat Aug 24, 2013 at 09:13:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I didn't say that "we are all white guys" (0+ / 0-)

        I said that this site acts like a bunch of white guys.

        I said it for two reasons:

        * Looking at the DailyKos' own demographics reporting, as I did already and so have others, this site is mostly white guys.  I did not say that the site is only white guys, because it clearly is not 'only white guys'.  

        * Look at who is not represented here, who is not speaking here.  Look at the behaviors in white cultures and male cultures when someone outside those power challenges them to address the power dynamic the white guys benefit from.  

        If you think I am here to push your buttons, ask yourself instead why you are defending the status quo.

        if you can read this...you're a terrorist

        by sexgenderbody on Sat Aug 24, 2013 at 09:27:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Hujambo, ¡Hola!, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kalmoth

    Здравствуйте, 안녕하세요

    The thesis of this Diary is demonstrably incorrect. As pointed out above, we have two groups for Latin American topics. Furthermore, the Latino vote in the US is one of our hottest topics.

    Battleground Texas, for example, has recruited more than 2,000 volunteers, many of them Spanish speakers, to encourage and assist legal immigrants in Texas to apply for citizenship; to encourage and assist citizens to register to vote and get the required ID; and to encourage and assist registered voters to show up at the polls at every opportunity. We get news from them in Diaries here. We are going to turn Texas Blue and keep Austin weird.

    Texas is going to get very, very interesting. And Blue.

    by kos, tagged latinos

    A search just now showed 860 uses of the "latinos" tag.

    We are Untermenschen to Them: The Tea Party Cheers a Hispanic Child Whose Father is Being Deported
    by chaunceydevega

    Immigration is the hottest topic in the US right now. The question is whether the Republican Party can pull itself back from the brink and stop attacking a critical demographic that will determine whether the Party continues to exist. The smart money is on "No".

    The DoJ lawsuit aiming to have the recent voting restrictions in Texas declared unconstitutional and to put Texas back on the preclearance list is another vital topic. It will be followed by a similar suit in North Carolina, which just passed the worst voter suppression law in the nation, where the Puertorriqueño vote is becoming particularly important. The expectation is that others will be filed as other suppression laws come into effect, in Florida and elsewhere in the South. Florida is a particularly important case, because Cubans are becoming a minority of Latinos there, with a large contingent from Puerto Rico, and immigration from many countries.

    I would be very much interested in Diaries on the progress of Marriage Equality in Latin America, or the revolt against the War on Drugs, or the response to the first Latin American Pope, in Spanish or English.

    The question for Diarists who would like to write in Spanish or other languages is whether the topic is primarily of interest to speakers of that language, or whether you would welcome help from the rest of the community. Bilingual diaries might be a practical solution, but not using Google Translate. Ask in the Latino groups if you are Anglo and would like to post in Spanish, or Latino and have trouble with English. I am sure that someone will be willing to help with an accurate translation.

    I work with One Laptop Per Child, which has major programs in Perú and Uruguay, and smaller programs all around Latin America, in addition to programs in dozens of other countries. All of our software and manuals have been translated to Spanish, and much of it to dozens of other languages. I recruited translators to work on Haitian Kreyòl and Cambodian Khmer when those programs were being launched. I can read Spanish but cannot yet write it effectively. I use the Spanish Microwave Course of the US Foreign Service Institute for study. It and other resources are available for free download.

    También estoy leendo El ingenioso hidalgo don Quijote de la Mancha. He leído Las aventuras de Alicia en el país de las maravillas, donde los habitantes son aparentemente todos Republicanos.

    Gato de Cheshire: Aquí todos estamos locos. Yo estoy loco. Tú estás loca.

    Alicia: ¿Cómo sabes que yo estoy loca?

    Gato: Tienes que estarlo, o no habrías venido aquí.

    y
    Cuando yo uso una palabra—insistió Humpty Dumpty con un tono de voz más bien desdeñoso—quiere decir lo que yo quiero que diga…, ni más ni menos.

    Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

    by Mokurai on Sat Aug 24, 2013 at 08:19:03 AM PDT

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