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We are caught between a Quagmire and a Cold War.   Only this time, it may not be so Cold.  This news is just about as bad as it gets with an overstretched military and everything DOWN at home except the Stock Market and all of this NSA stuff as Joan diared is not helping.

  We have Snowden in Russia.  We have Russia siding with Syria.
We have Syria threatning Israel and Iran backing Syria along with Russia.  We have troops in the middle east and Troops on re deployments in Afghinstan and Veterans on backlog here at home.  

Now we are approaching September 11th with no love from any International communities and Climate Change heating up the west and flooding the east most of the time.   The entire country divided and drawing lines in the sand between Republicans, teahats, liberal and democrats.  We are basically split four ways.  On this soil there is a War on Drugs, a War on Women, An all out assault on civil rights, no jobs, no cooperation with legislators, and people mad as Hell.   Do I have all of this summation just about right?   The educational system is failing, the bridges and roads ae falling, healthcare opposed and here we are stuck in the middle of all this.

Sixty percent of the country are NOT in favor of intervention in Syria.   So if we do nothing, what happens?   Dick Cheney and 40 percent of Americans get angry.   What did those ears pick up at the NSA that makes us rush off to war because we are certainly not in any financial or moral position to do that.   Will this mean the draft being reinstated?  Does this mean what ?  I really want to know because I am past angry and it is getting to the point we have way too much on our plate.

I am sure our President is concerned about being perceived as weak if nothing is done but Mr. President why haven't troops been brought home before now?  Why in the world have people not been prosecuted for tearing down the economy and stealing homes.
We knew we were just one disaster away from certain ruin.   So we might as well hunker down and face the fact.. WE ARE GOING TO WAR...AGAIN because there is no such thing as a little pregnant or quick mission.  I honestly feel like I am in a time machine stuck in neutral...or slowly moving backwards in time.  Is it just me or do you feel the same?   If this is hyperbole then talk me down because I feel really sick about ALL OF THIS!  From the dismantling of the  voting rights act, to the racial inequality, to the poverty, to the spying, to the fall of the middle class to the war on women and  
 The endless wars, to the struggle to just get me and people like me through the month.   We are all stressed too much..Why don't the bubble people understand this?  You know the wealthy who walk among us and never sacrafice anything?

Could this actually turn into WWIII?  

Your comments welcome.

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Comment Preferences

  •  No mention of why President Obama (6+ / 0-)

    is contemplating this move?

    Why?

  •  I have a marine and a sailor in the field (10+ / 0-)

    Right now.

    I am very concerned too. Actually, I'm scared.

    "You can never sink so low in life that you can't be a bad example for somebody." - my dad

    by briefer on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:11:46 PM PDT

    •  thank him for his service and my (6+ / 0-)

      thoughts are with you....This kind of stuff makes our veterans more sick as well.  I too am scared.

      We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

      by Vetwife on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:17:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  a him and a her. :) (5+ / 0-)

        Right now they are in Okinawa and Hawaii. But that can change in a heart beat, so to speak.

        "You can never sink so low in life that you can't be a bad example for somebody." - my dad

        by briefer on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:25:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I've been having PTSD bumps since Grenada, and (0+ / 0-)

        again with Sarajevo, and Panama, and Iraq and of course Notagain?istan, and now this. A little progress with counseling, and then back to that other stuff.

        Not that anything vets have to live with (or the million displaced children who are "safe" now in Lebanon and Turkey and such places) makes a buttwipe's worth of difference to the current round of shitheads-in-charge. In case you missed it, here's a description of how the Brass, who look ever more like Roman generals,  are living off our tax dollars:

        (Feudalism Resources. emphasis added). Hmmm ... a specialized military class occupying the higher levels in the social scale --but it can't happen here, heh heh:

            Then-defense secretary Robert M. Gates stopped bagging his leaves when he moved into a small Washington military enclave in 2007. His next-door neighbor was Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the time, who had a chef, a personal valet and — not lost on Gates — troops to tend his property.

            Gates may have been the civilian leader of the world’s largest military, but his position did not come with household staff. So, he often joked, he disposed of his leaves by blowing them onto the chairman’s lawn.

            “I was often jealous because he had four enlisted people helping him all the time,” Gates said in response to a question after a speech Thursday. He wryly complained to his wife that “Mullen’s got guys over there who are fixing meals for him, and I’m shoving something into the microwave. And I’m his boss.”

            Of the many facts that have come to light in the scandal involving former CIA director David H. Petraeus, among the most curious was that during his days as a four-star general, he was once escorted by 28 police motorcycles as he traveled from his Central Command headquarters in Tampa to socialite Jill Kelley’s mansion. Although most of his trips did not involve a presidential-size convoy, the scandal has prompted new scrutiny of the imperial trappings that come with a senior general’s lifestyle.

            The commanders who lead the nation’s military services and those who oversee troops around the world enjoy an array of perquisites befitting a billionaire, including executive jets, palatial homes, drivers, security guards and aides to carry their bags, press their uniforms and track their schedules in 10-minute increments. Their food is prepared by gourmet chefs. If they want music with their dinner parties, their staff can summon a string quartet or a choir.

            The elite regional commanders who preside over large swaths of the planet don’t have to settle for Gulfstream V jets. They each have a C-40, the military equivalent of a Boeing 737 ...

        (Washington Post, Petraeus Scandal, emphasis added). It is doubtful that the public would approve of the 1% being composed of generals, especially the one commanding the military NSA which is spying on them, including their sex lives (Informed Comment).

        Which brings us to the bread and to the circus.

        The quasi-feudalism in The Western Roman Empire, prior to the Holy Roman Empire, had a social dynamic called Bread and Circus:

            "Bread and Circuses" (or bread and games) (from Latin: panem et circenses) is a metaphor for a superficial means of appeasement. In the case of politics, the phrase is used to describe the creation of public approval, not through exemplary or excellent public service or public policy, but through diversion; distraction; or the mere satisfaction of the immediate, shallow requirements of a populace, as an offered "palliative." Juvenal decried it as a simplistic motivation of common people. The phrase also implies the erosion or ignorance of civic duty amongst the concerns of the common man.

            In modern usage, the phrase is taken to describe a populace that no longer values civic virtues and the public life. To many across the political spectrum, left and right, it connotes a supposed triviality and frivolity that characterized the Roman Republic prior to its decline into the autocratic monarchy characteristic of the later Roman Empire's transformation about 44 B.C.

        http://blogdredd.blogspot.com/...

        Must be nice to be able to play RISK!(tm) and tin soldier games with real bleeding bodies and trillions of real dollars in increasingly out of control war toys...

        "Is that all there is?" Peggy Lee.

        by jm214 on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 05:47:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I think Rachel just made this same argument (9+ / 0-)

    after I did this post and how dare Sen Kerry tell us to check our moral compass?   Seriously ?

    We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

    by Vetwife on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:12:10 PM PDT

  •  You might enjoy this from Buzzfeed (5+ / 0-)

    A LTE that explains (sort of) the Middle East

    Hi NSA. I am doing constitutionally protected stuff - like free speech. Too bad you are not!

    by glitterscale on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:12:49 PM PDT

    •  Oh my !!!!! (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      3goldens, glitterscale, NonnyO, Kombema

      We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

      by Vetwife on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:19:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.... (5+ / 0-)

      Sorry.  Means nothing to me.  After 13 years of our troops in the Middle East and two illegal and unconstitutional wars, I no longer give a rat's ass.

      Does our government want to end a war or not start a war...?

      Do NOT sell weapons of any kind to ANYONE, ANYWHERE.  Let them fight their fucking battles with sticks and stones.

      We have our own people and our own infrastructure to worry about and the leftover debt of the unconstitutional Bushista wars to pay off first.

      If we can't help our own people first instead of paying for ways to kill other people in other countries, then we're a piss-poor nation who doesn't care about anyone and only the corporations are going to profit no matter what, especially since they've already taken over many of the functions of our government and privatized the hell out of everything, and more corporate takeovers are in the offing with Obamacare when insurance, medical, and pharmaceutical corporations will have record-setting profits, just as oil, MIC, and mercenary corporations did/do for the nonsense in Iraq and Afghanistan.

      I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

      by NonnyO on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 08:07:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I think WW3 is unlikely (4+ / 0-)

    course you never really know.

    Yeah Russia is backing Syria and shielding Snowden but I think that's less an agenda and more sticking it to the world's only 'superpower'. Because make no mistake Russia can't win against the US not as things currently stand.

    I guess we will see what happens with Syria but frankly if chemical weapons were used I think there will be approval for some intervention.

    Der Weg ist Das Ziel

    by duhban on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:14:17 PM PDT

    •  Approval by whom..the UN? (8+ / 0-)

      We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

      by Vetwife on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:15:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  the American people (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        annominous

        after all your whole argument is that 60% of people are against intervention (and you don't really cite that so I have no clue how current that is) and my point is that I think those numbers are subject to change. Especially if there is conclusive proof of chemical weapon usage.

        Der Weg ist Das Ziel

        by duhban on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:21:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  August 19-23. (8+ / 0-)

          Reuter-Ipsos. 60% opposed even if Assad used C weapons. Diaried earlier today.

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:41:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  you mischaracterized the poll (0+ / 0-)

            "The Reuters/Ipsos poll, taken Aug. 19-23, found that 25 percent of Americans would support U.S. intervention if Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's forces used chemicals to attack civilians, while 46 percent would oppose it. "

            From the diary in your link. It's the same poll floating around these parts for a few days.

        •  it was just featured on MSNBC (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          corvo, duhban, Kombema, ichibon

          Chris Hayes.. all in show.

          We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

          by Vetwife on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:41:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I don't think so (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Vetwife, NonnyO, Kombema

          Its clear that chemical weapons are being used but there's no great outcry to jump into Syria. For starters who wants to get into it with someone who's using chemical weapons.
          we still haven't picked a side yet, like we still haven't picked a side in Egypt. Why jump into war to aid someone who hasn't even asked us for it yet? And its REALLY not clear what good intervention would do.
          Obama's in a cleft stick of his own making because of his previous redline statements. Well, now is the time for him to put up or shut up.
          My money says he shuts up

          Happy just to be alive

          by exlrrp on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:44:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Wouldn't be the first time (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Vetwife, exlrrp, NonnyO, Kombema, ichibon

            he backed down on a pledge, so there's precedent.  I'm hoping you're right.

            Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

            by corvo on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:45:47 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  please name me a president able to fulfill all his (0+ / 0-)

              pledges.

              I'll wait while you fail to do so

              Der Weg ist Das Ziel

              by duhban on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:47:04 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  And here I was saying that reneging (6+ / 0-)

                is sometimes a good thing . . . ;-)))

                Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                by corvo on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:48:57 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Don't think he's got the moxie to start a war (0+ / 0-)

                Just don't think he has it in him and thats not necessarily a bad thing.
                Obama's never been in a fight in his life other than fighting to get himself elected.  I hope he doesn't start one now. I don't think he'd make a good combat leader at all.

                Happy just to be alive

                by exlrrp on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 07:02:43 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I think that's one of the nicest ways (0+ / 0-)

                  to call our president a 'boy' yet.

                  Still racist as hell though but congratulations on a very sophisticated and elegant sounding comment.

                  Der Weg ist Das Ziel

                  by duhban on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 07:43:11 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  How in the world did you get THAT? (0+ / 0-)
                    I think that's one of the nicest ways  to call our president a 'boy' yet.
                    Not if you understand the English language.
                    Its saying he doesn't have it in him to start a war. If your opinion is that's calling him a boy then you need to spend some time with a dictionary

                    Happy just to be alive

                    by exlrrp on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 05:44:38 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  let's see (0+ / 0-)
                      Don't think he's got the moxie to start a war
                      that's your title which is insulting enough though not really racist but it's certainly imply he's not 'man enough'. But then you decide to not only double down but go all in
                      Just don't think he has it in him and thats not necessarily a bad thing.
                      Obama's never been in a fight in his life other than fighting to get himself elected.  I hope he doesn't start one now. I don't think he'd make a good combat leader at all.
                      This entirely is about insulting Obama's 'manness' which frankly comes off as racist. You do know that the most common racist comment directed towards blacks especially is to imply they are 'not a real man' right?

                      If not you should now and if you do I frankly question your motives in making the comment you made. You could have made your point in numerous ways and yet you decided to do so by continually attacking Obama's character.

                      Curious at the least.

                      Der Weg ist Das Ziel

                      by duhban on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 12:11:16 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Wow what a perverted imagination (2+ / 0-)

                        Seeing as how I frequently get put in the Obama rox category, your scurrilous bullshit is laughable.
                        lets look at the facts:
                        -Voted for Obama twice
                        -Gave him money for both elections totaling in the 4 figures.
                        -Walked through  a neighborhood in Eugene for him.
                        -still have my lawn signs for both his elections stapled up in my garage where I put them after the lection.
                        -was so excited after voting for him that I wrote this diary afterwards
                        -Later I wrote this diary thanking him for ending the Iraq War
                        -would vote for him today if he was the Democratic candidate.
                        These reasons and others are why I'm going to print out your opinion and then wipe my ass on it with a smile on my face

                        Don't read between the lines of what I write, just read the fucking lines!
                        That's the only part of the message I'll take responsibility for , all those scary things you see in the blank space around the words comes out of your fevered imagination not mine.

                        You're entitled to your own opinion but do the world a favor and shove it back up that bull it plopped out of.
                        Not going to defend any more against your scurrilous baseless insinuations,  but the world is welcome to look up what Ive said about Obama on record

                        Happy just to be alive

                        by exlrrp on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 12:43:45 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

            •  Puuh-lease. (0+ / 0-)

              Do give it a rest.

              In the time it took Adam Lanza to reload, eleven children escaped. What if...

              by Sixty Something on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 07:04:20 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  then why now and not 2 years ago? (0+ / 0-)

            Der Weg ist Das Ziel

            by duhban on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:46:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Ok, here is a question for you. Are YOU willing (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Vetwife

          to personally go into Syria along with your kids (if any) as part of such an intervention?

          You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

          by Throw The Bums Out on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 06:10:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  The American people (0+ / 0-)

          from what I've seen are not supportive of intervention.

          The latest polling indicates that there is little support among Americans for ANY KIND of military intervention in Syria.  Perhaps people are tired of being lied to.  

          ....Richard Haas, president of the CFR said today that polling indicating a 25% level of support in the USA for intervention is flawed because the polling might suggest a big war and Haas thinks it will be a small war.  In fact, the 25% level of support in the poll is contingent on proof that it is the Syrian government that did the deed.  Without that proof the level of support for intervention is around 12%.

          Col. Pat Lang at Sic Semper Tyrannis.

          Here at DKos the support for intervention appears to be high, regardless of the absence of proof.

          Orwell - "Political language ... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable"

          by truong son traveler on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 08:44:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  In a different diary... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Vetwife, truong son traveler

        ... someone posted info from a chem weapons expert who had looked at photos of the people allegedly killed with chemical weapons and noticed the people doing cleanup were not wearing hazmat clothing or protecting themselves.

        It seems unlikely that the freshly dead bodies of those killed with chemicals wouldn't be able to be touched with anything less than individuals wearing hazmat suits if the chemicals are that deadly.

        I smell a setup.... and remember the wailing of Dumbya saying "Saddam's killing his own people with chemical weapons."

        What he neglected to mention is that the US sold those chemical weapons to Saddam!  That's how they "knew" Iraq had chemical weapons.

        Now, why would the US sell chemical weapons to anyone if they didn't expect these radical "leaders" to use them against their own people...?  Makes no sense that they sold them to these fanatics in the first place.  It was utterly stupid, stupid, stupid of the US to sell chemical weapons to anyone.

        I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

        by NonnyO on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 08:16:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The US is the world's largest arms dealer (4+ / 0-)

          Of course, when America sells arms it is to "keep the peace".

          Dubya put it succinctly:

          "I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we're really talking about peace"

          Obama is not much different. He's just more circumspect in his wording.

          •  Weapons are foreign aid. (3+ / 0-)

            Think of it as "weapons stamps". Our gubmint gives the weapons stamps out to poor gubmints who would not otherwise be able to arm up. The receiving gubmints use the stamps to buy weapons from American job-creating manufacturers, who make big profits. The job creating 0.1 percenter manufacturers pocket all the profits and lay a few workers off. Then the poor gubmints who have received all this USA largesse (that's french for weapons) use the largesse on their own people when those people get out of line because their gubmint won't turn on the power or the water. Then some American goopbagger congressman and/or Lush Insanity complains about us giving the poor gubmints all that largesse, and riles up the tbag base. Meanwhile the Americans who hit the streets to protest all of this get tear-gassed by our own cops, who are nuthin like the cops that tear-gas people in those poor countries.

          •  Oh, yeah... I figured that out... (2+ / 0-)

            ... a long time ago.

            :-(

            War is peace and we've always been at war with....

            I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

            by NonnyO on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 09:26:04 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  chemical weapons? (6+ / 0-)

      you mean, like white phosphorus? Agent Orange?

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:21:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  What could POSSIBLY go wrong? (15+ / 0-)

    No thanks.  Performed in the LAST iteration of this crap.  Know how it ends.

    I don't blame Christians. I blame Stupid. Which sadly is a much more popular religion these days.

    by detroitmechworks on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:18:12 PM PDT

  •  I had hoped VN would be our last futile war (10+ / 0-)

    and for a while it seemed my hope would come to fruition.  However, like boiling a frog, we slowly went back into the war biz, first with small wars on the cheap such as Panama and Grenada.  We then continued where the wars were larger but we had plenty of friends with us, such as Desert Storm.

    Now we are at the stage where we go it alone and evidently GB is taking its cue from us.  We have stated we need no mandate from the UN to go into Syria and now Cameron has said he does not need a fig leaf from NATO and GB is prepared to act unilaterally.

    What I can not fathom is how our current attempts at "helping' other countries facing a civil war is any different from our multiple incursions into Mexico from 1848-1917.  Our most famous incursion was Black Jack's Pershing's expedition to punish Pancho Villa.  The Zimmerman Telegram almost vaulted us into conquering and annexing Mexico.

    We can see the fruits of our meddling in Mexican affairs with the current situation there.  Why do we think our activities so far removed from our shores will bear less bitter fruit?    

  •  Nope (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annominous
    .   So if we do nothing, what happens?   Dick Cheney and 40 percent of Americans get angry.   .
    Nope. If we do nothing, and the evidence that this was Assads doing pans out, then Assad and all others like him will have confirmed that there is no reason not to use chemical weapons to terrorize civilian populations, Halabja style.   True, no one threatened to invade over Hama, so maybe that's no big change.  

    Maybe that's ok. Not many regimes have chemical weapons so maybe it really is no big deal.  

  •  It's possible but WWIII is unlikely (10+ / 0-)

    You don't want to go there. Trust me, I've seen the plans. None of us live. Fortunately the Russians know that and they're not suicidal.

    What I suspect is, the Russians will push back as much as they think they can get away with. They don't want to just sit back and let us have our way, but they don't want to confront us directly.

    If the pilot's good, see, I mean if he's reeeally sharp, he can barrel that baby in so low... oh you oughta see it sometime. It's a sight. A big plane like a '52... varrrooom! Its jet exhaust... frying chickens in the barnyard!

    by Major Kong on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:26:58 PM PDT

  •  We seem to think that we can bomb a (9+ / 0-)

    Country, or send a swarm of tomahawks into a country, but not consider it an act of war. When the first bomb explodes we lose complete control of our fate.

    "You can never sink so low in life that you can't be a bad example for somebody." - my dad

    by briefer on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:31:16 PM PDT

  •  Libya changed the playbook (5+ / 0-)

    They will never put American troops on the ground in Syria. Contemplated actions will be limited to air strikes and tomahawk strikes. I think the strikes are going to be limited to neutralizing the threat of chemical / biological weapons. The will also enforce a no fly zone.

    Undoubtedly a lot going on behind the scenes vis-a-vis Russia. Tough to see how it is going to work out, but using military force to stop some crimes against humanity would seem to place us on moral high ground.

    The Snowden thing is just a fuck you to the good old USA from Russia, and really their providing safe haven is of little strategic importance. They definitely want to maintain their Syrian bases, however, and I think their position may be non-negotiable.

    •  non-negotiable but minimal (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Vetwife
      The Russian naval facility in Tartus refers to a military installation of the Russian Navy located in the port of the city of Tartus, Syria. Russian official usage classifies the installation as a Material-Technical Support Point (Russian: Пункт материально-технического обеспечения, ПМТО) and not a "base". Tartus is the last Russian military facility outside the former Soviet Union, and its only Mediterranean repair and replenishment spot, sparing Russia’s warships the trip back to their Black Sea bases through the Turkish Straits...
      Video reporting by Russian TV in late June 2012 provided a tour of the Russian Navy's modest foothold in Tartus. The officer-in-charge conducting the tour said that only four(4) personnel now man the facility and that one of its two floating piers is inoperative because a storm had severely damaged its moorings. The shore facilities comprise a barracks, office space, two medium sized corrugated metal storage buildings, and a covered parking shed for about 5-6 service vehicles. A brief tour of the naval repair vessel then in port and tied to the sole operational pier also showed that it was minimally manned — about 10-12 personnel, including the master and chief engineer. There was no mention of potential repairs or facility expansion

      Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013

      by annieli on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 07:05:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The sky isn't falling we've been through tough (3+ / 0-)

    times before.  From the Civil War to the first half of the 20th century closely followed by the second half of the 20th century.  It's funny how people view the times they are going through.  Each generation claims the ruin of the country or the world is upon us and then thirty years later they talk about the good ole days and how much better it was then. We are constantly going from one crisis to another.

    Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    by thestructureguy on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:44:50 PM PDT

    •  I have never seen times like this and I am (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BlueDragon, thestructureguy

      63.  Yes we had the depression but not three wars going as well.  We have all of these things going on at once.
      And never have we gone backwards.. Stuck but not undo what has been done.  We had J Edgar but not during poor economic times ...We got it all ....Undoing rights, etc.  it would be like taking the vote away from women during WWII.

      We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

      by Vetwife on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:49:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Plenty of tough times to go around. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        annominous, Vetwife

        We've had 11 recessions since 1949.  The "great one" is the worst but not by much.  And during that time we had the cold war, Jim Crow, urban unrest, SDS, Hover, Nixon, Vietnam, Cuba, assassinations, Korea, 9/11, Watergate, middle east wars continuously, strife in Africa and plenty of other crisis.  Times are hard now and pretty scary.  But the shit that went down in the 60's sure scared the hell out of a lot of people.  I can't even imagine what people went through in the thirty and forties with the depression and WWII.  

        Yes rights are being tested but during those time past we didn't even have those rights.  When my grandmothers were born women didn't even have the right to vote and even I remember segregated areas even in the Land of Lincoln. So are times tough? Damn skippy they are.  Seem like we're going backwards? Yes at times.  But is it the end times?  No, it just sucks, like it always has.  

        Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

        by thestructureguy on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 07:50:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  deaths during No-Fly Zones (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Vetwife, truong son traveler
    The Iraqi no-fly zones were a set of two separate no-fly zones (NFZs), and were proclaimed by the United States, United Kingdom, and France after the Gulf War of 1991 to protect the Kurds in northern Iraq and Shiite Muslims in the south. Iraqi aircraft were forbidden from flying inside the zones. The policy was enforced by U.S., UK, and French aircraft patrols until France withdrew in 1998. While the enforcing powers had cited United Nations Security Council Resolution 688 as authorizing the operations, the resolution contains no explicit authorization. The Secretary-General of the UN at the time the resolution was passed, Boutros Boutros-Ghali called the no-fly zones "illegal" in a later interview with John Pilger...
    The NFZ in the north of Iraq was established shortly after the Gulf War. In August 1992 the NFZ in the south to the 32nd parallel was established but in 1996 it was expanded to the 33rd parallel. From 1992 to the United States-led coalition invasion of Iraq in 2003, there were two NFZs in Iraq. The northern NFZ extended from the 36th parallel northwards, while the southern extended from the 33rd parallel southwards....
    The sanctions against Iraq were a near-total financial and trade embargo imposed by the United Nations Security Council on the nation of Iraq. They began August 6, 1990, four days after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, stayed largely in force until May 2003 (after Saddam Hussein's being forced from power), and persisted in part, including reparations to Kuwait, through the present...Estimates of excess deaths of children during the sanctions range from 100,000 to over 500,000.
    Libyan No Fly Zone 2011 Initial NATO planning for a possible no-fly zone took place in late February and early March, especially by NATO members France and the United Kingdom. France and the UK were early supporters of a no-fly zone and have sufficient airpower to impose a no-fly zone over the rebel-held areas, although they might need additional assistance for a more extensive exclusion zone.
    The US had the air assets necessary to enforce a no-fly zone, but was cautious to support such an action prior to obtaining a legal basis for violating Libya's sovereignty. However, due to the sensitive nature of military action by the US against an Arab nation, the US sought Arab participation in the enforcement of a no-fly zone.
    At a congressional hearing, United States Secretary of Defense Robert Gates explained that "a no-fly zone begins with an attack on Libya to destroy the air defences ... and then you can fly planes around the country and not worry about our guys being shot down. But that's the way it starts."
    On 19 March, the deployment of French fighter jets over Libya began, and other states began their individual operations. Phase One started the same day with the involvement of the United States, United Kingdom, France, Italy and Canada.
    On 24 March, NATO ambassadors agreed that NATO would take command of the no-fly zone enforcement, while other military operations remained the responsibility of the group of states previously involved, with NATO expected to take control as early as 26 March. The decision was made after meetings of NATO members to resolve disagreements over whether military operations in Libya should include attacks on ground forces. The decision will create a two-level power structure overseeing military operations. In charge politically will be a committee, led by NATO, that includes all states participating in enforcing the no-fly zone, while NATO alone will be responsible for military action...After the death of Muammar Gaddafi on 20 October 2011, it was announced that the NATO mission would end on 31 October.
    In January 2013, the new Libyan government, based on unfinished research, estimated the number of killed in the conflict to be actually far lower than previous estimates, with 4,700 of the dead being rebel fighters, a similar number loyalist soldiers and an undefined number civilians. An estimated 2,100 rebels and loyalists were missing. No count was given on the number of killed and missing civilians. The Uppsala Conflict Data Program a public data resource that includes information on different types of organized violence (e.g. actors involved, casualties, date, location, etc.) reported that between 1,914 and 3,466 people were killed during the 2011 fighting. In addition their data shows that between 152 and 168 civilians were deliberately killed by the pro-Gaddafi forces in 2011.

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013

    by annieli on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:46:12 PM PDT

  •  This is not especially encouraging, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo, Vetwife, Lepanto

    for the chances of peace, IMO:

    http://www.haaretz.com/...

    --high-level contingent from Israel in Washington.  

    The Chesapeake Valley is blisteringly hot in late August, so I fear the diplomats are not in town to visit the museums.  

  •  I doubt it will be WWIII (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Vetwife

    but it's just so much death and carnage that neither we nor the environment can afford.

    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

    by corvo on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:48:03 PM PDT

    •  It's not that you are wrong but I disagree anyway. (0+ / 0-)

      A bunch of little Syrian kids just got gassed, along with their relatives, so it's death and carnage one way or the other. It could be, if the US dabbles in this, it could stop the next chemical attack on little Syrian kids and their relatives. That's the best possible outcome. I hope that these missiles are aimed to take out military installations, and no more little kids get hurt. It's not meaningless, that Assad gassed little kids, civil war or not.

      It would be great if Obama would draw some red line around OUR protestors to stop them from being pepper-sprayed by OUR OWN COPS.

  •  you can't speak of red lines, and then refuse to (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Vetwife, truong son traveler

    acknowledge them when they have been crossed.  Obama painted himself into this corner.  Cruise missiles will likely be launched.

    And in Tel Aviv, thousands will cheer.

    Through early morning fog I see visions of the things to be the pains that are withheld for me I realize and I can see...

    by Keith930 on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:49:58 PM PDT

    •  inside the Beltway too, and in (3+ / 0-)

      board rooms all across the country and in Dubai . . .

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:55:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  maybe not Tel Aviv, (4+ / 0-)

      but Jerusalem, and the Knesset in particular, is another matter.

      It's no secret that Israelis are viewing the situation with some alarm: they'd rather have Assad than Al Qaeda.  On the other hand, some of them might be willing to gamble on an American puppet state in power long enough to ratify Israel's annexation of the Golan.

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:59:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Best summary of the Obama presidency ever. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo, truong son traveler
      Obama painted himself into this corner.  Cruise missiles will likely be launched.
  •  the only thing holding the administration back (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Vetwife, Lepanto, chuckvw

    is the unravelling in Egypt and Libya....

    We could easily tip the balance in Syria in favor of the rebels, with little risk to actual soldiers.  But the aftermath is a complete crapshoot.  Who knows what takes Assad's place?

    That is the only consideration that is braking the impulse to launch some tomahawks, or send in a sorty of bombers.

    We could decimate Assad's forces within a week, without a single boot on the ground.  But what does the aftermath look like?

    Through early morning fog I see visions of the things to be the pains that are withheld for me I realize and I can see...

    by Keith930 on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 06:56:24 PM PDT

    •  Sounds familiar with Shock and Awe (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo, chuckvw

      We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

      by Vetwife on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 07:01:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  and Iraq is a total mess......... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Vetwife

        but that's the thing...we can use our military to alter the balance of power, but we can't change the citizens of these countries into anything other than what they are, and wish to remain.

        Through early morning fog I see visions of the things to be the pains that are withheld for me I realize and I can see...

        by Keith930 on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 07:40:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes Iraq is a total mess. But, you can't put the (3+ / 0-)

          blame on the people as you are attempting to do.

          The following is complete and utter nonsense:

          we can't change the citizens of these countries into anything other than what they are, and wish to remain.
          "We" HAVE changed the citizens of countries like Iraq with our ill conceived policies and meddling, usually for short term financial gain, under the guise of anti-communism. Time and again they have been knocked down and brutalized by leaders installed and supported by the west.

          Here's Iraq's sad story. It almost parallels Iran's.

          Blood, Oil, and Sand:The Hidden History of America’s War on Iraq

          In 1953, Iran’s President Mossadegh nationalized its oil reserves and kicked the British out of the country. The United States responded by having the CIA assist in a coup that re-established the Shah of Iran as ruler. General Abdel Karim Qassem, the ruler of Iraq, also attempted to nationalize. United States CIA Director Allen Dulles immediately and publicly declared General Qassem’s actions to be “Communist,” but also added that he didn’t think the situation “was hopeless.” Almost immediately afterward General Qassem was assassinated in a coup led by Saddam Hussein’s Ba’ath Party.

          •  it's always our fault (0+ / 0-)

            and by "our" I mean White, Middle Class men.  Everyone else is exempt from blame or responsibility.

            Through early morning fog I see visions of the things to be the pains that are withheld for me I realize and I can see...

            by Keith930 on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 02:43:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You left out white, rich men. (0+ / 0-)

              Also, white upper middle class men.  And while we're at it, how about white conservative ignoramus' with anger issues, and heck, all those white women who stand right next to and in full support of all those white men.

              Oh, and let's not forget all those other men and their supportive women all over the world waging whatever war, big or small, against whomever they're mad at, jealous of, power hungry over, or simply just insane.

              The only ones who are exempt are children. It's what we do to them that perpetuates this insanity.

              The priest said, "Today's sermon is called 'Liars', but first I have a question. How many of you have read Chapter 66 in Matthew?" Nearly every hand went up. "You're just the group I need to speak to," the priest said. "There's no such chapter."

              by Back In Blue on Wed Aug 28, 2013 at 11:59:15 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  No. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    virginislandsguy, annominous
    Could this actually turn into WWIII?  

    In the time it took Adam Lanza to reload, eleven children escaped. What if...

    by Sixty Something on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 07:01:05 PM PDT

  •  This is the American Empire (4+ / 0-)

    and war is what empires do, especially in the end game.  And war is what bankrupts empires and brings them down.  So save your moral indignation and finger pointing and right and wrong and stupid and smart, and hopes for a better world.  This is who we are and war is what we do and will do until we no longer can.  And that's the way it is, this day, 2013

    •  That is a bit of a wake up call (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LLPete, cactusgal

      as I am sure all of us are unsure of our kids and grandkids future.   This country is not immune to some sort of warfare in retaliation.  Remember the anthrax?  We got lots of people very angry at this country and this administration.

      I do not direspect the president.  I voted for him twice.
      I cannot close to my eyes that either fearmongering is going on or another GWB policy.  No other alternatives.
      I disagree with his policies at this time.

      We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

      by Vetwife on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 07:12:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm hard pressed to come up with any other country (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LLPete, truong son traveler

      that has been involved in as many wars as has the US in it's relatively short history of a few hundred years.

      This is who we are and war is what we do and will do until we no longer can.  And that's the way it is, this day, 2013
      Maybe that's because the US hasn't experienced war like other nations have.
      Casualties of War - Putting American Casualties in Perspective

      The United States of America has a somewhat unique relationship with war. While America is considered to be the most militarily powerful country in the world today, Americans as a whole have never experienced war in the way that many other countries of the world have. There is a huge disparity between the American experience of war and the global experience. This may have an impact on American attitudes towards war. Presented below are various statistics on causalities of war. The information is useful for reference material, but it is also useful for gaining an understanding of the human cost of war, and the cost of war for Americans compared to the rest of the world, which may be helpful in understanding cultural attitudes about war.  

      •  that is an extremely important statement (0+ / 0-)

        America has been spared the wars other than The Civil and Revolution ...9-11 was an attack as was Pearl harbour but let's face it we have been very fortunate not to have an invading country swarm our streets and bring carnage to our borders...If that were to happen..God forbid...then we would either become even more hawkish or mind our business but Canada has never been invaded and they manage to stay a step above war.  So the argument is so scary to think about I can't wrap my mind around it.  We came very close with the Cuban Missle Crisis.

        We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

        by Vetwife on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 07:44:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Of course- (0+ / 0-)

      I'm so glad that Cuba, the Philippines, Germany, France, Italy, Algeria, Morocco, Grenada, Panama, Japan, South Korea, Samoa, Kiribati, Kuwait, Iraq, Libya, Bosnia, Kosovo, Serbia, and Colombia are all territories of the United States.  Plus about a dozen others.

      Oh wait.  

      It is pretty remarkable that the countries the U.S. defeats in war and/or occupies have a record of becoming liberal democracies and independent of the U.S.   You know, almost as if the U.S. liberated them.  

      The record is that the U.S. has, starting in the 1890s, spent about a generation and a couple of wars each on the Caribbean/Atlantic/Pacific, Western Europe, East/North Asia, and Eastern Europe.  Currently we're at war in West/South Asia (aka Middle East, Caucasus, Central Asia, and South Asia).   All that's left after this is perhaps Africa.  More exactly, equatorial Africa.

      Curiously, wars in these regions up to West Asia have been minimal since U.S. "interference" in them.  And the remaining dictators and such have been minimal.  Strange that, really.  It's almost as if U.S. interference has been for the good....

  •  I want members of the Obama (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Vetwife, worldlotus

    administration to be on the horn with some very capable souls before even one plane fuels.

    I think certain phones should ring before certain others' phones.

    Bill Richardson.  The anti-war peace groups in Israel.  Jimmy Carter.  And many, many others.  Each of us have names we'd like to see on such a list.  A deliberately international list of names, IMO, would be all but essential.  

    There could be significant benefit in including historians and archeologists in the summit.  

    The president could convene a summit in the Mediterranean.  He can arrive with his best ears.  And may the dialogue aim for -- and achieve -- a peace.  

    I'm aware that not many such things are so easy.  But bring keen minds and good hearts and exchange possible solutions.  

  •  Sorry Vetwife, no Rec. (0+ / 0-)

    This is a bit over the top, IMHO.

    In the time it took Adam Lanza to reload, eleven children escaped. What if...

    by Sixty Something on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 07:12:09 PM PDT

    •  You have a right to not rec but it is not (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Remediator, OrdinaryIowan, corvo

      over  the top.   I said nothing that Rachel didn't say.
      I have every right to want to know what some on here are thinking about the overall situation with two other wars ongoing.
      People are not real comfortable with the President taking this stand.  We do not know what could happen in this unstable region.  

      We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

      by Vetwife on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 07:19:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I, as a woman, understand where vetwife is coming (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Vetwife

    from.  We, the mothers of children who are sent off to war and husbands we love get conscripted, are worried about the escalation that might occur.  

    too often the tolerant aren't very committed and the committed aren't very tolerant.....unknown rabbi.

    by racheltracks on Mon Aug 26, 2013 at 07:30:43 PM PDT

    •  Hi sweetie. hope you are feeling better !!!! (0+ / 0-)

      Glad you stopped in.  From a perspective of living abroad, you know this is not a good move for the US and we should be striving to move forwards not just same as usual in wars and rumors of wars.   All wars end at the negotiating table, why can't we start there and try to eliminate war.

      We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

      by Vetwife on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 07:47:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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