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Since our fearless President seems to be on the verge of repeating our murderous, illegal, and now obviously catastrophic assault on the nation of Libya, but this time around with the civilian population of Syria as the patsies, it's probably worthwhile for us Democrats to take a closer look at our previous victims.

“I am not sure that it will be right to assume that there is a government in Libya. There is no army, no police, armed militias are in control. There is violent chaos,” Yehudit Ronen, professor of political science at Bar Ilan University, told RT.

Violent chaos! And we're lucky that even a few reports leak out.

With government-backed militias controlling [Benghazi] and no judicial system to speak of, journalists in Libya have become easy targets.
Renegade militias loot army bases!

Berbers storm the national Congress and cut pipelines!

Nobody is ever safe anywhere!

On Monday (August 19), a group of gunmen attacked a convoy carrying the EU ambassador to Libya, Nataliya Apostolova. The assault outside the Corinthia Hotel in central Tripoli was not far from the prime minister’s main office. The gunmen robbed the EU delegation at gunpoint before shooting at passing cars and making their escape. Policemen outside the hotel did not intervene.
Was that how Obama and Hillary Clinton sold our "military intervention" to the TV rubes of America?

"We will create a violent chaos! And best our all, there's no risk whatsoever for you fat, stupid voters! We'll bomb them from high in the sky! Their air force will never get off the ground! They are defenseless against us! Hahahahaha!!!"

Of course President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton neither announced nor predicted anything of the sort.

We bombed Libya to save it! This was "military humanism" at its very finest!

But even though it may be impossible to sell Obama's intervention as any kind of  success two years later, my-party-right-or-wrong defenders of the President can still claim that the USA only played a secondary role in this catastrophe.

We only launched 228 cruise missiles at our defenseless victims.

We only dropped 455 bombs!

And we were only one of so many white Christian nations who sent the gift of "humanitarian bombs" to the helpless Libyans! Denmark and Norway dropped more than 600 bombs between them!

A grand total of 3,000 targets hit in 14,202 strikes, with zero NATO casualties in the combat zone!

This wasn't a war! This was more like a party where white people rained down bombs on brown people, from the safety of the skies!

The only allied casualty of which I can find any record was one British airman killed by a traffic accident in Italy while providing logistical support for NATO.

This wasn't a war, for our side.

This was the virtually risk-free annihilation of what used to be the most prosperous country in all of Africa!

.769 on the HDI, compared for example to its neighbors like Chad (.340), Mali (.344), and even Algeria (.713) and Egypt (.662).

What remains today is a "fatally destabilized" and "increasingly out of control" failed state ruled by gangs of thugs, and that, my friends, is Barack Obama's legacy in the wasteland of Libya.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    limpidglass, corvo

    Elizabeth Warren for President 2016!

    by Frank Whitaker on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 07:33:45 AM PDT

  •  Yes, the Libyans yearn for the good old days (11+ / 0-)

    of Ghaddafi.  What sanctimonious bullshit this post is.

    Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

    by TomP on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 07:47:03 AM PDT

    •  I'm pretty certain Black Libyans do. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Frank Whitaker

      Considering how they are not being systematically slaughtered by the new regime and being denied education and citizenship. Black Libyans loved Ghaddafi.

      •  It's a mixed bag for Black Libyans. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Those from Tawergha, whom Gaddafi heavily recruited for his Republican Guard, are still in a bad spot.

        The Tebou, on the other hand, who were heavily repressed by the Gaddafi Regime, are now better off.  They were, btw, continually denied citizenship by the Gaddafi Regime.

        "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

        by Lawrence on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 10:32:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The Tebou are better off? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          Apparently "Lawrence" knows more about the Tebou than they know about themselves!

          In March 2012, bloody clashes broke out between Toubou and Arab tribesmen in the southern city of Sabha, Libya. In response, Issa Abdel Majid Mansour, the leader of the Toubou tribe in Libya threatened a separatist bid, decrying what he saw as "ethnic cleansing" against Toubou.
          That's after Gaddafi.

          Meanwhile the Tebou are still enmeshed in the same never-ending tribal wars around their slave-trade oasis in Kufra, and that's one of those tribal conflicts that even Gaddafi could not quell, although it's true that Gaddafi sided against the slave-trading Tebou.

          Elizabeth Warren for President 2016!

          by Frank Whitaker on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 11:04:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Interesting that you left this part out: (0+ / 0-)
            The Toubou minority in Libya suffered what has been described as "massive discrimination"[2] under the leadership of Muammar Gaddafi.
            In a report released by the UNHCR, the Society for Threatened Peoples (STP) reported "massive discrimination" against the Toubou minority, which resides in the southeastern corner of the country around the oasis town of Kufra. In December 2007, the Gaddafi government stripped Toubou Libyans of their citizenship, claiming that they were not Libyans, but rather Chadians. In addition, local authorities denied Toubou people access to education and healthcare. In response, an armed group called the Toubou Front for the Salvation of Libya (TFSL) staged an uprising in November 2008 which lasted for five days and claimed 33 lives before being crushed by government security forces. Despite resistance and public condemnation, the Gaddafi regime continued its persecution of the Toubou minority in Libya. Beginning in November 2009, the government began a program of forced eviction and demolition of Toubou homes, rendering many Toubou homeless. Several dozen who protested the destruction were arrested, and families who refused to leave their homes were beaten.[2]
            The situation for ethnic minorities is still difficult and complex, as the Gaddafi Regime amplified racism with its arabization campaign, but they now, for the first time in a very long time, have made advances and have the opportunity to make more advances:
            Issues of minority rights have only recently entered the realm of public political discourse in Libya. The ousted Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi promoted a pan-Arab doctrine that he strictly enforced through the “Arabization” of minority groups like the Amazigh, who were banned from speaking their language or learning their history in school. The Amazigh community suffered harassment from Gaddafi’s Revolutionary Guard. A Wikileaks cable brought out the details of a 2009 attack on the city of Yifren, an Amazighi town, in which Revolutionary Guards threw rocks at the home of Amazighi rights activist Salem Madi, spray-painted his home and chanted ant-Amazigh slogans. The guards threw stones at protesters and vandalized Amazighi businesses with graffiti.

            The Tebu, a once-nomadic people living in the south of Libya, were denied land and citizenship rights by the Gaddafi regime. They had difficulty accessing state institutions, including higher education and housing resources. They were considered foreigners in their own country, unrecognized by the state. These structural exclusions limited the breadth of their participation in the socio-economic and political realms.

            Post-revolution, these minority groups are struggling to create a different reality for themselves in Libya. There is fear that without adequate representation, the legacy of the Gaddafi regime’s persecution of their communities will continue, under shiny new revolutionary rhetoric. While Libya is finally recognizing the contributions of the these communities to the revolution and to Libyan culture itself, remnants of the xenophobia that marked the Gaddafi regime’s treatment of minorities still blemish Libyan political and cultural discourse.


            Your false characterization of the Tebou as a bunch of "slave-traders" smacks of the same type of rhetoric that encouraged racism under the Gaddafi Regime, btw.

            "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

            by Lawrence on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 12:29:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Gaddafi! It's gotta be all about Gaddafi! (0+ / 0-)

              But if Gaddafi never existed, the Toubou and Ouled-Sliman would still be fighting for the slave routes.

              The root of the conflicts, in both Koufra and Sebha, may not be limited to simple tribal issues. In the south of Libya, the Toubou have traditionally controlled international trade: goods but also human trafficking.
              The Ouled-Sliman were loyal to Gaddafi all the way to the bitter end, and Gaddafi was equally loyal to them in their conflict with the Toubou, but nobody who actually signs his real name on the internet claims that Gaddafi started the quarrel between those tribes.

              Maybe one of "Lawrence's" nameless Libyan friends will be so kind as to translate this video for him, but the general idea of it is clear enough.

              Elizabeth Warren for President 2016!

              by Frank Whitaker on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 01:10:34 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Before Gaddafi, after Gaddafi, now and forever... (0+ / 0-)

                Before Gaddafi, after Gaddafi, now and forever there's war between the Toubou and Ouled Slimane.

                Les tribus Toubous et Ouled Slimane s'affrontent depuis lundi à Sebha, la capitale du Fezzane à environ sept cents kilomètres au sud de Tripoli. Des violences qui ont fait au moins quinze morts et une soixantaine de blessés.

                Selon des habitants de la ville, ce sont des Toubous, venus de l'étranger, qui ont tiré les premiers. Les Toubous, pour leur part, disent avoir été agressés en premier.

                But it's gotta be all about Gaddafi, or Obama's carnage won't make sense.

                Elizabeth Warren for President 2016!

                by Frank Whitaker on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 01:53:38 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  Whether folks think Libya (11+ / 0-)

    Was right or wrong, there is one phrase that is interestingly lacking in this diary...Muammar Gaddafi.

    I'm not saying that opposing the Libya war is wrong, it isn't.  What I am saying is that failing to compare before and after is wrong.  The complete omission of Muammar Gaddafi in this diary is like failing to mention cancer when discussing chemotherapy.

    "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

    by Empty Vessel on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 07:52:07 AM PDT

    •  neither side is wrong, at least morally (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Empty Vessel

      people of good faith can disagree about the intervention, acknowledging there are risks to life and purse from both action and inaction.

      I disagree there's no mention of Qaddafi in the diary -- the link at the end that it was the "most prosperous country" in Africa.  I'm sure that had more to do with global oil markets than the Pan-African Socialist Jamahiriya, but you never know what's in a diarist's mind.

      Difficult, difficult, lemon difficult.

      by Loge on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 09:12:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Santimony, you has it. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TheLizardKing, TomP, Adam AZ, doroma, Lawrence

    "Murderous, illegal, and now obviously catastrophic?" Compared to what?

    "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

    by raptavio on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 07:57:18 AM PDT

    •  "Compared to what?" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Compared to the most prosperous nation in Africa, which Libya used to be.

      The most prosperous nation in Africa.

      Highest median income!

      Best healthcare!

      At the top of every index of human well-being on the entire continent!

      And now it's a rubble-field, thanks to Barack Obama and his NATO playmates.

      Elizabeth Warren for President 2016!

      by Frank Whitaker on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 09:12:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Um, perhaps you forgot something. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        NATO didn't get involved until AFTER the uprising in Libya began.

        "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

        by raptavio on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 09:25:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, I already know the EXCUSES! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          This is a diary about the results, and if you ever bothered to read anything almost anywhere on the subject of Libya - like the links in my diary from the Guardian, Voice of America, the New Yorker, the Economist, and McClatchy - you would discover that what all of them are describing is chaos, and in particular what reasonably well-informed people call a "failed state."

          Elizabeth Warren for President 2016!

          by Frank Whitaker on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 09:37:01 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Excuses? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            You're comparing some very limited measures of what Libya was like before the uprising with what Libya was like after NATO intervention and offering that as proof that NATO wrecked it, while skipping over the whole state of Libya at the point of NATO intervention. That's incredibly intellectually dishonest, compounded by the fact that you call pointing that out an excuse. That takes chutzpah.

            "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

            by raptavio on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 09:44:20 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  This is the funniest argument I keep seeing (0+ / 0-)

        to defend the murderous Gaddafi Regime.

        Jfyi, Libya is back on top of the Human Development Index for Africa.

        It's because they have the most oil in Africa while simultaneously having a small population.

        As for this:

        And now it's a rubble-field, thanks to Barack Obama and his NATO playmates.
        Lol.  That's funny.  I don't know a single Libyan who would agree with that statement.  Please tell us how Libya manages the feat of simultaneously having the highest HDI in Africa while being a "rubble-field"...

        "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

        by Lawrence on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 10:28:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Nameless Libyans speak to "Lawrence!" (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          We can only imagine "Lawrence's" invisible friends may say, but when I read first-hand reports from people with real names who are actually physically inside Libya, what I see is more like this...


          "The city’s filling up with armed groups—some affiliated with Zintan, some affiliated with Misrata," Moayad tells me. "They’re coming from all over the country. It’s a matter of time until there are clashes in the center of the city."

          Moayad says the militias believe that whoever controls Tripoli controls the government, and whoever controls the government gets to cream off oil money and put its allies in important and profitable positions. He looks tired, deflated, and disillusioned. Gaddafi always claimed that without his iron fist, the country would sink into tribal infighting and anarchy. Depressingly, for many Libyans who supported the revolution, his predictions now seem to be becoming true.

          Elizabeth Warren for President 2016!

          by Frank Whitaker on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 10:52:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I see you completely ignored the fact that your (0+ / 0-)

            "but Libya under Gaddafi was the richest state in Africa!!" argument was debunked.

            You're obviously not debating in good faith.

            The article also doesn't back up your silly hyperbole of Libya being "a rubble-field, thanks to Barack Obama and his NATO playmates."

            But since you profess to be interested in the opinions of "real people with real names who are actually inside Libya", there actually is a comment by a Libyan in the comment section of that article:

            Ahmed Elumami · English reporter at Libya Herald

            I just want to tell foreign people who would like to visit Libya that everything is OK. You should just take care because weapons are everywhere, and I think armed robbery is also taking place in the most secured countries.Libyans are very wonderful and friendly people and bad people are everywhere around the world. I met Wil Crisp in Tripoli,the writer of the story), and we had coffee together with some other foreign journalists. Regardless what happens in Libya of destabilizing, deteriorating and assassinations Libyans just want to live peacefully and with dignity (Dubai is the dream of the simple Libyan citizen). Hope it is over soon.
            Reply · 5 ·  · August 23 at 3:52pm

            Or are you only interested in opinions that cater to confirmation bias?

            "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

            by Lawrence on Tue Aug 27, 2013 at 12:16:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Yep, Libya is a problem (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TheLizardKing, TomP, Adam AZ, doroma, Lawrence

    ...for those who want to argue that all military intervention is bad. So you must do contortions to paint it in a bad light.

  •  Am going 2 send this 2 Libyan friends... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Adam AZ, doroma, Frank Whitaker

    Was ambivalent about Libyan intervention, but even some chaos was better than Gaddafi.

    I'm still not convinced that an Al Quaida rebel leader of Syria would be better than Assad.  It's a terrible choice.

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