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Split GOPoposaur
Jonathan Martin, writing for The New York Times:
The Congressional vote on whether to strike Syria will offer the best insight yet on which wing of the Republican Party — the traditional hawks, or a growing bloc of noninterventionists — has the advantage in the fierce internal debates over foreign policy that have been taking place all year.
On one side, you've got the Rand Pauls of the GOP:
“John Kerry is, you know, he’s famous for saying, you know, how can you ask a man to be the last one to die for a mistake?” Mr. Paul said. “I would ask John Kerry, how can you ask a man to be the first one to die for a mistake?”
And on the other, you've got the Lindsey Grahams:
Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina also raised the danger from Iran on Monday afternoon after he and Mr. McCain met with Mr. Obama. “The connection between Syria and Iran is clear as a bell,” Mr. Graham said.

Mr. Graham, a longtime friend and ally of Mr. McCain, also had a message for those he called the libertarians: “Fortress America I just don’t think will work.”

I guess the good news for Republicans is that the one thing they can continue to agree on is that they hate President Obama. They just can't decide on the best way to go about hating him.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Rand's rather loony father (15+ / 0-)

    says it looks like a false flag, and Pat Buchanan agrees.

    Which, of course, raises the odds to 99.(all the nines)% that it was NOT a false flag.

    I'm on a mission! Testing the new site rules.

    by blue aardvark on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:04:11 PM PDT

  •  I wonder what the projections are (6+ / 0-)

    for traditional conservative "war hawk" republicans in the next mid-term election?  I suppose they are expecting to lose at least a few dozen seats to primaries by libertarian non-interventionists.

  •  War Party (13+ / 0-)

    Vote will highlight the split in the Democratic Party too.

    •  We don't have quite the same split (9+ / 0-)

      between isolationists and hawks.

      Our hawks are generally less hawkish, and we don't have too many "US out of the UN" hard-line isolationists.

      I'm on a mission! Testing the new site rules.

      by blue aardvark on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:09:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Our split is different (4+ / 0-)

        but not much less divisive. As you can see on this site we have a lot of people who favor a strike on the basis of humanitarianism and backing up international law. Along with establishment Democrats who are going to "go along to get along" they form a significant part of the party in Congress.

        There's a difference between a responsible gun owner and one that's been lucky so far.

        by BeerNotWar on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:24:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  There are regional aspects to the split too (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blue aardvark, Matt Z

        The east coast is more interventionist because it has a more international perspective.  The south has a greater military presence.

        The interior and the west coast just aren't that into middle east adventures or any adventures for that matter.  I mean if you're out here in the middle west thousands of miles from any ocean you have to work real hard to think you're facing a threat.  I mean, yeah, they attack New York and we're going but Syria?  

        Unfortunately, the establishment Democrats pretty much order the delegations like Minnesota to vote against the wishes of their constituents and expect us to look the other way.  The know we don't support this.

        •  A case can be made, of course, that some times (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          a representative should vote other than a poll might indicate. In fact, we frequently bemoan the fact the GOP representatives don't do that, given how racist some of their districts appear to be.

          I'm on a mission! Testing the new site rules.

          by blue aardvark on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:41:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The MN delegation is interesting though (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            blue aardvark

            Congressman Nolan apparently got into an argument with Kerry at a briefing and is strongly opposed.  (Maybe we've found Gene McCarthy).  The only Democrat strongly supporting the President is Keith Ellison.  Colin Peterson who I thought would go for it since he's a blue dog is opposed and that's got to be because his rural farm district is just not into this.  And poor Tim Walz  who is a bit of centrist but managed to win in a rural farm district which usually goes Republican is sitting on an electric fence trying to figure how to vote yes.  Paulsen a Republican in an upper income suburban district which is not Tea Party territory is against it.  It's not popular out here at all.   Even Bachmann for once is in tune with her voters saying we don't want another war in the middle east.  

            No one out here wants another war in the middle east.  They're going to use up every speck of support for war in the middle east.  But heck, maybe they'll make Americans so beyond sick of this that when the neocons want to do Iran, we'll finally get our Hell, NO!  We won't go moment.  

    •  It'll be the Amash vote all over again. (0+ / 0-)

      The same Dems who refused to defund the NSA surveillance of us will also vote to approve bombing: it's the "establishment" thing to do, don't you know.

      My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.—Carl Schurz
      "Shared sacrifice!" said the spider to the fly.—Me

      by KingBolete on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 04:00:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Once again, will the Teapots save our bacon? n.t (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, blue aardvark

    I have three politically incorrect, straight, white male, grandchildren; and I don't care if you think they're important or not.

    by dkmich on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:05:28 PM PDT

  •  Lindsey Graham is fending off a teabagger primary (6+ / 0-)

    For Pete's Sake™

    Why is anyone taking him seriously

    I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

    by JML9999 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:06:50 PM PDT

  •  Split in the Republican party? (4+ / 0-)

    What about the Democrats? Other research this weekend and listening to this hearing today I have gone from skeptical but trusting last week to no fucking way - I am fuming & frankly somewhat disgusted at my own party.

    •  Yeah, but we've always been like this. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Matt Z

      And we're not in charge of the House.

    •  Me as well (0+ / 0-)

      The biggest thing I've seen that is causing the problem is that they can't be seen disagreeing with the "Democrat" in the White House. He, and Kerry, are very much not Democrats on this issue, traditionally, based on their arguments. Democrats have not argued that military action is needed for "sending a message" but that it is right and just morally to do so.

      We really need some Dems, high profile ones at that, to stand up with Rand Paul and argue against this military action. It is tragic and horrible what is going on over there, but we cannot continue to be the ones who simultaneously are bitched at for intervening and asked to intervene by parties more than capable of handling the situation on their own. We do not need to be the lead on every issue. It's time we force the Arab League and Europe (who we've been supporting militarily for half a century) to be the leaders on these issues.

  •  which (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blue aardvark, Darmok, Matt Z

    Which party is more divided?

    Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. John Kenneth Galbraith .

    by melvynny on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:08:24 PM PDT

    •  I'm guessing theirs (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VPofKarma, Matt Z

      Our hawks aren't as hawkish (I think), and our peaceniks are not as isolationist as their "US out of the UN!" types.

      Plus they have a sizable wing that can't admit Obama can be trusted as C-in-C, despite the painful fact that he IS C-in-C.

      I'm on a mission! Testing the new site rules.

      by blue aardvark on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:11:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  my guess (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blue aardvark, Matt Z

        Dems are divided by theory--Rs for politics.  We believe in the necessity to defend humanity and stop chemical warfare--but we also believe war needs to be vehemently avoided.  Rs distrust Obama--racism-- but also because to support him on anything is a sign of weakness.  Their hawks don't want to piss off their defense lobbyist donors.

        I'm in the minority on this site--if their is proof Assad used sarin, we must do something.  We could do a cruise missile for show--we could set up a naval blockade--we could raise tariffs on Russian goods.  We should not send in ground troops--now.  If Assad doubles down on chemical warfare, we have no other alternative.  That, however, only on condition that some Arab countries join us.

        Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. John Kenneth Galbraith .

        by melvynny on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:26:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'll assume the ny there is for New York (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          It looks different when you are thousands of miles from the coast.  We are divided by region and culture as well.   And there are very practical implications as well.  One of the problems facing the VA after Iraq is that so many of the severely injured soldiers weren't regular army.  They were NG.  Out west the distance from one VA to another can be as far as from Boston to Atlanta.  It's very difficult to provide the kind of services to some of our war injured.  And people don't even know that or care.  I mean I hear here about caring, but that doesn't seem to apply to caring for the Americans who have already paid an enormous price in wars we haven't yet wrapped up before we start the next one.

          •  ny (0+ / 0-)

            I'm Brooklyn born--and proud of it.  Having VA hospitals is fine for some injuries--but former GIs should get free treatment at all local facilities.

            Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. John Kenneth Galbraith .

            by melvynny on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 03:01:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  If we go in with ground troops (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rbird, sethtriggs, mayim, Matt Z

          1) Take a month off from Daily Kos, otherwise you may expire from pie toxicity
          2) If Turkey will go it might work. Without Turkey, I don't care who else goes, it won't work

          I'm on a mission! Testing the new site rules.

          by blue aardvark on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:39:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  With or without Turkey, I'm stuck on the (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Ender, mayim, Matt Z

            "then what?" part.

          •  worry (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            I'm not worried about ridicule--I'm concerned about Americans over-reacting to Bush insanity.  When genocide occurs--when chemical weapons are used, humane people react.  My family was decimated by Hitler's actions--and everyone found an excuse to look the other way.  Never again should any people be neglected--never.  And if people want to give me a hard time--they can go F themselves.  Up thread I mention that I'm from Bklyn--and we don't fear written toxicity.

            Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. John Kenneth Galbraith .

            by melvynny on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 03:07:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Obama has said the goal is to reduce Syria's (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          capability (missile launching) to deliver further chemical attacks.

          Is anyone listening????

          •  Uh huh... (0+ / 0-)

            And the goal of...

            Afghanistan was to harm their ability to do whatever and find Osama. We're America, Afghanistan should be easy, right?

            Shock and Awe was to quickly depose Saddam and be in and out fast. We're America, Iraq should fall in days!

            Desert Storm was to quickly stop Saddam from attacking his neighboring country. See above quip.

            Vietnam was to stop Communism and do so fast. We're America, Vietnam wouldn't be any problem, right? At least North Vietnam isn't around anymore.

            Korea was to stop Communism. We really excelled at that one!

  •  If the non-interventionists (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, blue aardvark, Magnifico, Matt Z

    in the GOP win this one, I'm renting some ice skates and setting the GPS for the seventh circle of hell.

    Après le thé, le déluge. -- Glenn Beck, aka Napoleon XIV

    by mspicata on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:08:27 PM PDT

  •  Rand Paul should shut his trap (8+ / 0-)

    Hey may not be a pro-war Tea Party dude but I think he's an opportunist when he's working to twist John Kerry's testimony as a Vietnam War veteran at the Senate Foreign Relations Committee into a different direction.

    At the moment, a number of us can criticize John Kerry as a Secretary of State but when Rand Paul was no more than say eight years old (born in 1963), Kerry was working with others to make the case to end the Vietnam War.

    In my view, John Kerry did a great deal to help the U.S. end the war in Vietnam War so Paul really should be ashamed of himself for politicizing Kerry's 1971 speech.  If Paul wants to criticize Kerry, criticize him as Secretary of State, not the words he used when he was fighting to end the Vietnam War.

  •  All Tea Party's vitriol aimed at Boehner makes me (10+ / 0-)

    get a nice worm feeling inside. I've been reading the Fright Wing blogs all morning and I've seen a lot of that.

    "If Wall Street paid a tax on every “game” they run, we would get enough revenue to run the government on." ~ Will Rogers

    by Lefty Coaster on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:15:05 PM PDT

  •  A yet the fundamental question to be talking about (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    is what happened to those people who were gassed and how do we go about protecting others from chemical agent massacres.

    •  They're dead. Here's a great diary explaining the (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fumie, VPofKarma

      what we don't knows. If the gas they are producing is like the Iraqi gas, impure, it degrades quickly (why they are shipping their gas to Syria was balderdash & I only found this out Monday)

      So if they are producing gas that quickly degrades and we take their means of producing the gas off-line, they will be stopped from gassing others.

      But if they are making gas that is pure and lasts 90 years or more on the shelf. Well. Bombing the plants wouldn't make much difference.

      diary here.

      give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

      by 88kathy on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:24:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The gas is easily produced, but not so easily (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:


        It's the launch capability by missiles that Obama wants to take out...if anyone's listening to him.

        •  A quick cheat sheet for where Damascus is (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          blue aardvark, akmk

          situated in the middle east. This helps me visualize how that might be a major major concern.

             Damascus is 55 miles from Beirut
              109 miles from Aman
              135 miles from Jerusalem
              382 miles from Cairo
              469 miles from Baghdad
              483 miles from Ankara
              873 miles from Tehran
          I like looking at maps.


            Washington DC is 38 miles from Baltimore
              108 miles from Richmond
              136 miles from Philadelphia
              394 miles from Boston
              399 miles from Charlotte
              505 miles from Cincinnati
              847 miles from Orlando

          give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

          by 88kathy on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 07:18:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  drop cluster bombs and depleted uranium (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo, rbird

      shells on them. Some White Phosphorus might help too (but only as a screening action: sorry 'bout the collateral damage Fallujah).

      Maybe not fomenting and arming rebels-without-a-hope would help in the long run, too.

      Actual Democrats: the surest, quickest, route to More Democrats. And actually addressing our various emergencies.

      by Jim P on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:24:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I've given up on NPR (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    88kathy, fumie, mayim

    This past weekend they interviewed a CA congressvacationer who is ----- somebody --- just so they could get his negative thoughts.  And then there has been Mara Liasson who makes shite up about what Obama has said and goes from there.  

    Then I listened to the NPR McCain interview this a.m. (not challenged) on his "catastrophic" and yet I might not vote for it.  And then the Graham bullshite.

    I'm no longer listening to the radio crap and no longer reading certain folks here in order to avoid the hysteria factor.

    In the end, we all will have our reasons for/against or OMG I have no fucking clue reasons for what will happen in Syria in the next couple of weeks.

    " My faith in the Constitution is whole; it is complete; it is total." Barbara Jordan, 1974

    by gchaucer2 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:19:12 PM PDT

  •  Democrats are not digging him too much, either. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    I guess the good news for Republicans is that the one thing they can continue to agree on is that they hate President Obama. They just can't decide on the best way to go about hating him.
    At least not this week.  

    I'm not a misanthrope, I'm just very selective about who I'm willing to waste my time on.

    by SpamNunn on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:20:16 PM PDT

  •  It'll Highlight Clinton's Failure (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SpamNunn, corvo, Joealan, greenbell, rbird, Matt Z

    The situation in Syria developed under Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It is going about as badly as it possibly could, drawing us into war after killing so many Syrians and leading to chemical warfare.

    Yes, I'm happy Republicans will look bad. And don't get me started on Kerry, who asked for this frying pan fire and is doing about as well as Condoleeza Rice would (no surprise, since they agreed on Iraq the last time around).

    But the Syria section of Clinton's resume will make me want someone else as Democratic nominee in 2016.  If the people are all the same, nothing will change. And I still dare hope for change - even if not from these people.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:20:22 PM PDT

  •  no crying over split milf (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    implicate order, Matt Z
    In a Facebook post titled “Let Allah Sort It Out,” former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin condemned President Obama’s decision to get further involved with the ongoing civil war in Syria.
    “So we’re bombing Syria because Syria is bombing Syria? And I’m the idiot?” Mrs. Palin asked on Friday. “President Obama wants America involved in Syria’s civil war pitting the antagonistic Assad regime against equally antagonistic Al Qaeda affiliated rebels. But he’s not quite sure which side is doing what, what the ultimate end game is, or even whose side we should be on.”

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013

    by annieli on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:20:57 PM PDT

  •  Politics makes strange bedfellows (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hulibow, suzq, fumie, Matt Z, Chas 981

    as they say.
    I'm feeling a little queasy when I look and see who's lying there next to me. Did I get drunk last night?

  •  A vote against will only be a vote of opportunity (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, VPofKarma, Matt Z

    for Teabaggers looking to register against the President. If this were a Rmoney action, it would be lockstep.

    The traditional R hawks are R hawks and would by and large vote "aye" regardless of who is President for an action like this.

    The more important question is how Democrats will break down.

    The place was utterly dark—the oubliette, as I suppose, of their accursed convent.

    by bastrop on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:22:48 PM PDT

  •  Republicons are confused now because (10+ / 0-)

    they can't tell which stand hurts Obama more.

    Do they want to oppose the attack on Syria because Obama is for it, even though the GOP is the "America, fcuk yeah, let's go to war" party?

    From what I can tell, they are trying to split the difference by saying that yes, we should hit Syria, but Obama is still wrong because "we should have done it sooner" and "he waited too long to act".  

    That way they can be for military action in general and against Obama's military action at the same time.

    Tom Udall is now saying we should condemn Russia and China for not allowing us to move forward.  THAT helps.

    Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
    Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights for support in dealing with grief.

    by TrueBlueMajority on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:23:11 PM PDT

  •  But will it highlight a split (0+ / 0-)

    in the Democratic Party, or will intraparty opposition to war be anathema by the time this comes to a vote?

    That's what I want to know.

    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

    by corvo on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:23:57 PM PDT

  •  hard for GOP "no votes" to claim mantle of Reagan (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Reagan would have responded to Assad's poison gas genocide with a prompt military strike, without asking for an okay from Congress.  

    Were Reagan alive, but not the President, Reagan would be in support of a military strike on Syria.  He would not vote "no" - he would support a President's decision to strike.

    I expect in the 2016 GOP debates that one or more of the primary candidates will have supported a military strike against Syria's genocide - and some will have voted "no" or otherwise expressed opposition to a military strike - and if any of the "no strike" candidates claim how they are like Ronald Reagan - the other candidate will bring it up and have none of it.

    Ronald Reagan would not be part of the "do nothing" caucus.

  •  there's a third wing of the Republican Party, too: (7+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, 88kathy, suzq, akmk, VPofKarma, Matt Z, Chas 981

    Lazy do-nothings, such as Republican Rep. Peter King, who is absolutely appalled that the president is going to actually make him do his job by voting on something.

  •  Right-wing shriek radio going apeshit ... (5+ / 0-)

    ... that any R who is supporting Obama is now covered with his 'chocolate coating.'

    That's the way this bunch thinks.

  •  Unfortunately, most Dems will back the plan (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    greenbell, corvo, PorridgeGun

    and vote for war, thus destroying any credibility they had on the issue. They will be unable to claim they were lied to this  time.

    •  If you think Obama asked for this vote because he (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LanceBoyle, Matt Z

      'wants' war or will go directly to war, I am thinking you might have just climbed out of a ditch on the New Jersey Turnpike.

      I think we are on the edge of the abyss. I think it is scary. And I am hanging on.

      give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

      by 88kathy on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:46:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not sure if your response was sarcasm or not... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      You might want to review history.    Aside from George Bush's (both) wars, all of the others were initiated by the Democratic Party.

      WWI:   Wilson (D)
      WWII:  Roosevelt (D)
      Korea:  Truman (D)
      Vietnam:  Kennedy (D), Johnson (D), Nixon (R)  [Who ended it?]
      Serbia/Kosovo/Bosnia:  Clinton (D)
      Iraq #1:   Bush Sr. (R)
      Iraq #2:   Bush Jr (R)  Obama (D)
      Afghanistan: Bush Jr (R)  Obama (D)
      Libya:  Obama (D)
      Syria (?):  Obama (D)

      To blindly call the Democrats the anti-war party 1) Ignores history 2) relieves Democrats of the responsibility for the deaths they are complicit in.


    nosotros no somos estúpidos

    by a2nite on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:30:54 PM PDT

  •  It will show the split in ours, too. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hester, Matt Z


  •  GOPosaur strikes iceberg. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    88kathy, Matt Z

    Breaks in half and sinks.  Cue tiny violins playing theme music from "Titanic."

    Proponents of gun violence own guns. Opponents of gun violence do not own guns. What part of this do you not understand?

    by Liberal Panzer on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:32:47 PM PDT

  •  How about the split of the democratic party? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Stude Dude
    •  You say that like it's a new thing. We are (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VPofKarma, Matt Z

      not organized and haven't been since the 30s. It's part of our charm.

      give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

      by 88kathy on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 02:47:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  This is, exactly? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Stude Dude, Blue Wind, Matt Z

      If you were paying attention back during the Iraq War vote, you would have seen the same split.  A united Republican Party made war possible.

    •  I'm wondering that too. (0+ / 0-)

      Since the majority of the party are peaceniks, who could very possibly feel betrayed.

      Plus we're going into a mid-term where those people staying home, like '10, can really hurt us.

      "If this Studebaker had anymore Atomic Space-Age Style, you'd have to be an astronaut with a geiger counter!"

      by Stude Dude on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 03:34:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  peaceniks huh ... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        After 10 plus years of war, I think you'll find lots of "peaceniks" out there!  I think it has something to do with being told that everything is being cut at home because we have no money.  Obviously, any sort of military action will result in spending lots of money and that is just not popular anymore.

        "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Riane Eisler

        by noofsh on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 06:08:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  crapola split (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    This so-called republican split is a load of crap. if Bush, McCain or the rich guy was president they'd be lining up with him without a question. They're just a bunch of hypocrites.
    Look that moranic asswipe Inhofe is against it, do you think for two seconds he'd be against if Bush proposed it??

  •  CNN is fucking disgusting (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VPofKarma, Matt Z

    Wolf Blitzer has got Bill Kristol on (geezus, wft CNN?!?) to trash Obama every few sentences and saying republicans don't trust him because he's weak on foreign policy, and that the "Internationists" (I'm guessing that's the rebranding name for "neocons") outnumber the teabaggers in the GOP. No pushback, just some corporatist neo-lib/conservative villager, Robin Wright, who is smirking and nodding away. Then Blitzer asks why didn't Obama bomb Syria sooner?

    Now he's got the neo-con loon McCain on.

    I was 55%-45% against this thing half an hour ago. After sitting through CNN's pro-bombing coverage, I'm now 70% against.

  •  Foolish to gloat about splitting the GOP.... (0+ / 0-)

    Just saw 2 liberal Democrats arguing about Syria on Hardball -  Rangel and McDermott. This is splitting the Democratic Party.

    Kerry's War. Obama's Blunder.

    The modern Democrat is one who promotes old GOP ideas and calls them progressive in comparison to new GOP ideas.

    by masswaster on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 04:36:47 PM PDT

  •  yeah, how wonderful that the Democrats (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    will be the ones eating the blame for this disastrous war, after Obama whips the Democratic caucus into line.

    There will be a minuscule rump faction of Dems allowed to vote against in the House, but the rest are going to vote for it. In the Senate, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire Dem caucus voted yea.

    How wonderful that the right-libertarian faction of the Republican party will be immensely empowered by this war, because they'll come off as the sane and sensible ones who opposed the worst foreign policy disaster in American history.

    Never mind that they're troglodytes who want to take us back to a 19th-century WASP male paradise where blacks and women knew their place, government didn't exist, and corporations had free reign--it will be their views that will gain credibility, their spokespeople who will be the toast of the town, and their wing of the GOP that will gain momentum going into the next presidential election. Because despite their insanity, they were the only politicians coming out strongly and vocally against this war.

    How wonderful that the Democrats will almost surely lose Congress over this, and how wonderful that the Democratic party will be blown into smithereens by this, leaving an ever-more-radicalized Republican party free reign to run this country a mere six years after Bush left office with the GOP in tatters.

    How wonderful that the price will be paid in blood by millions of Syrians--and perhaps many Iranians, Jordanians, and citizens of many other countries (including possibly ours, if we send ground troops).

    Thank you, President Obama. This is indeed a wonderful thing you are about to do.

    "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

    by limpidglass on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 04:39:46 PM PDT

  •  Both parties are splitting (0+ / 0-)

    I see the split right here on DKOS.  I just don't understand why my fellow citizens are so quick to use military action as the answer to all problems.

    "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Riane Eisler

    by noofsh on Tue Sep 03, 2013 at 06:05:35 PM PDT

  •  I deeply oppose... (0+ / 0-)

    this pointless intervention, being more attuned to Jon Stewart's interpretation than others.  But with Palin and Paul opposed, I'd vote with the President because we can't stop him (and the hawks) anyway and because anything that serves the Republicans is worse.  That is an entirely unprincipled bit of double-think but this is America and since we're incompetent and going to make a mess, we might as well keep taking sides against the real nihilists: the Republicans.

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