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This is a true story. I was talking to a 60 something retired nurse from Texas. She has been going "naked"--i.e. has had not health insurance since 2004. She has some problems with her kidneys, but she is proud of how well she has taken care of herself without access to health care.

Having played the "you are not insurable because you are over 50 and a human being" game myself, I know that no health insurer will write a policy for a 60 something year old with kidney problems. I assumed (yes, I know all about the "ass" and "u" and "me") that she was tickled pink that she would finally be able to purchase health insurance this fall.

Boy, was I ever wrong.

When I brought up the topic and asked (naively) if she was glad she was finally going to be able to get insurance for the first time in almost a decade, she looked at me with a combination of horror and loathing in her face, almost as if I had just asked her

"Do you plan to boil and eat your grandchild?"

It seems that in Texas, no one will admit that they plan to take advantage of the change in the health care laws. I am pretty sure that ALL retired nurses (and pharmacists and doctors and physical therapists) who have been unable to qualify for insurance up until now will be signing up this fall. People in the health care industry know just how bad it can be to develop breast cancer/prostate cancer/heart disease without insurance. It is basically a death sentence.

However, when you talk to folks in Texas, where I live, you discover that Health Insurance is now a dirty word and it is something that no polite person ever discusses with another person. The only proper way to discuss Health Insurance is by talking about Obamacare as in the stuff that will 1)weaken our country's backbone, 2) drive doctors and hospitals out of business (no one every explains this one), 3) cause your (white) grandmother to be murdered by a "death panel" so that the money that would have been spent on her can be spent, instead, giving a Black woman liposuction and a tummy tuck and 4) cause your identity to be stolen so that your credit will be ruined forever and you will probably end up in jail.

America---the only nation on earth in which people are afraid to have health insurance.

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  •  Tip Jar (158+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bama Jumper, hannah, Purple Priestess, MartyM, Great Ape, radarlady, marykk, DerAmi, SteelerGrrl, Emerson, OhioNatureMom, splashy, tuesdayschilde, Wife of Bath, Mark Mywurtz, DSC on the Plateau, Tinfoil Hat, sodalis, BlueZone, Naniboujou, OHdog, Rogneid, tardis10, FlyingToaster, Otteray Scribe, deha, petesmom, political mutt, bastrop, marleycat, tobendaro, poliwrangler, i saw an old tree today, tommymet, msdobie, mnguitar, twigg, dkmich, Blazehawkins, Kingsmeg, Kristina40, Aunt Pat, Cassandra Waites, Hillbilly Dem, cv lurking gf, on the cusp, Cofcos, JVolvo, SueM1121, Hirodog, Darwinian Detrius, Game Theory, ChemBob, MKinTN, wintergreen8694, FindingMyVoice, JDWolverton, sfarkash, belinda ridgewood, Jojos Mojo, ScienceMom, gustynpip, Lilith, zerelda, otto, jfromga, Wendy Slammo, flowerfarmer, wasatch, ER Doc, Radiowalla, mbh1023, DeminNewJ, Front Toward Enemy, dejavu, martydd, Debs2, Catte Nappe, mslat27, texasmom, JSCram3254, DRo, Matt Z, el dorado gal, Bonsai66, dotsright, True North, puakev, Greenfinches, Sylv, eeff, TracieLynn, bibble, jts327, devis1, Vico, Involuntary Exile, eru, Rosaura, yet another liberal, Ckntfld, Statusquomustgo, ColoTim, madmsf, Damnit Janet, GrannyOPhilly, FloridaSNMOM, blueoasis, Youffraita, owlbear1, bleeding blue, alrdouglas, Steveningen, kbman, ItsSimpleSimon, soarbird, JayBat, Arahahex, Deep Texan, Themistoclea, myboo, milkbone, prettygirlxoxoxo, GAS, IndieGuy, Bensdad, avsp, GayHillbilly, sillycarrot, Chaddiwicker, shanikka, annetteboardman, greengemini, Kentucky DeanDemocrat, Buckeye54, Steven D, stevie avebury, science nerd, opinionated, JerryNA, maggiejean, pyegar, Brooke In Seattle, ferg, Farugia, Laconic Lib, samddobermann, StellaRay, Tam in CA, Laughing Vergil, bvljac, mollyd, Buckeye Nut Schell, TexDem, chimene, mettle fatigue, Tennessee Dave, exNYinTX

    "A dog starved at his master's gate/Predicts the ruin of the state" Blake

    by McCamy Taylor on Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 12:42:23 AM PDT

  •  Paraprofesseionals (35+ / 0-)

    What I see in your story is a hard working expert who is now cut out from the system, and denied benefits that are reasonably expected. When did it happen, that stealing promised benefits became an accepted part of running a company?

    •  When shareholder value became more important (15+ / 0-)

      that stakeholder value.  When executive compensation based on share price became the norm.  there are too many incentives to reward the owners and executives while stiffing the workers, communities, and the environment.

      “The future depends entirely on what each of us does every day.” Gloria Steinem

      by ahumbleopinion on Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 07:47:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  if pension plans that still exist are still share- (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ahumbleopinion

        holders in a lot of the most egregious companies (as has been the case in the past, when plan members demanded that plan administrators make return-effective investments), then pension plan members are also invested in "stiffing workers, communities, and the environment" and as a result, their loyalties are not just divided but in effect self-destructive.  Question is, what options do they have, after years or decades plowing their own hard-earned money into their pension plans?  Answer, very little.  Many pension plans are quite punitive about members trying to exit taking as much as possible of their years of plan investment with them.  The plans have to be in order for the collective to end up with any retirement income worthy of the name.  In many areas where public employees are quite low-paid, they are especially caught between a rock and a hard place.

        Just mentioning this to point out that working-class involvement in corporate amerika is far more complex, intertwined, and problematic than we usually discuss or address when holding corporate amerika to account for its malfeasances.   Pension plans used to be major shareholders, in terms of total dollars while not in terms of any power to direct the actions of the corporations they were invested in, and voices pointing out the inherent conflict in workingclass people relying for their retirement income upon the very structures that bleed them dry has produced little alternative except the various kinds of Individual Retirement Accounts.  Those are so often managed by the corporate investment/financial/banking/ insurance megaliths that the net effect is not much different from pension plan strategies.  

        The two or three waves of pension plan collapses since about 1960 have 'released' a lot of pension members from collectivist retirement savings/investments and decreased the number of pension plans that exist along with the extent to which pension plan money matters to corporate amerika.  But in many ways many of us are in fact still invested in corporate amerika and still relying on corporate amerika to come through for us for our retirement income.  Inevitably this has to produce a raging ambivalence parallel to the ambivalences of many americans who know themselves so threatened no matter which direction they go that they'll choose the devil they know to the devil they don't, on the practical basis that they are better equipped to deal with the devil they now than the devil they don't.  And if whitewashing their StockholmSyndrome situation will diminish their justified fears, they'll do that too, because there's a limit to how much fear and worry and lost efforts in struggling anyone can face.

        Most americans --not only the blue-- are facing more than they are equipped to handle, and if blue has not yet won them over as widely as we'd like, that may be because we're asking them to put their faith yet again into a proposition than may as equally be a losing as a winning one.  Sure, it's very circular: progressive ideas needs massive support to make the progress that returns that protection and support: meanwhile it's a huge gamble and a lot of americans are too fearful about losing anything more than they've already lost.

        Thanks for your comment giving the opportunity to bring these factors into the discussion.

  •  Perhaps it is a natural consequence of living (18+ / 0-)

    in a euphemistic culture. Does not life insurance come into effect at death and isn't burial insurance something that's forgot? Why should health insurance be any different? Healthy people don't need insurance and insurance won't keep them healthy.
    As a person who's not been seen by a medical professional in thirty years, I haven't signed up for Medicare and am reluctant to do so, not because I don't want to pay, but because I don't want to be pressured to sign up with a primary care provider and get regular checkups. I don't want to be queried and prodded and thumped on my back. And I don't want x-rays or pap smears. The only thing I want is, if I get sick, is to die quickly.
    I think it's a matter of self-determination.
    I am ambivalent. I am quite happy for other people, both the care providers and the sick, to get what I don't want for myself. But that's because I'm a liberal and not into deprivation, which is a step just short of sadism.
    Perhaps it's a heightened sense of one's integument that resists having it penetrated by anything. Privacy is a touchy subject.

  •  Healthcare (11+ / 0-)

    is an issue not to be brought up around here where I am in California also, it's not just Texas.  It's a sore subject and you get nothing but negativity if you bring it up.  You're not alone in your experience.

    •  At a picnic yesterday (5+ / 0-)

      here in Pennsylvania, similar reactions came up, with a pharmacy tech. Negativity about the ACA--maybe if it could lose the Obamacare label more people would be accepting. But it seems we're beyond that now. The derangement is complete.

      Most of the people I've run into who speak negatively about it are either ignorant or lying. The really surprising ones are the medical professionals who know better but just flat-out lie.

      Help stop gas drilling in Pennsylvania's Loyalsock State Forest!

      by marina on Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 08:33:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I've found medical professionals who SHOULD (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tobendaro, JerryNA, samddobermann, marina

        know better but don't.  I think most who spout the incorrect information are just ignorant, but I did see something recently (I read it on the Internet so it must be true) that said there was a study where people were asked their opinions on something and if their beliefs were against it, they couldn't tell the truthful answer even if they could reason it out.  It just went against their beliefs, so even though it was right, it just had to be wrong.  Beliefs trump reason, which is why Republican ideas are so hard to overcome.  People will believe things more strongly than you can educate them to believe in facts and reality.  

        I also think there have been studies to show that people who identify as Republicans are also more likely to believe what they're told by those they respect as authority figures - successful businessmen, politicians, religious leaders, salesmen (well, they're all really salesmen), than they will believe what they're told by teachers, scientists and others who have nothing to gain by whether the person believes them or not.

  •  Relative cries over uninsured child blames obama.. (5+ / 0-)

    She posted a share about how a minister tells a "story" about "overhearing" Obama care supporters talking about "free" health care. In the story she posted on face book...it made my blood boil...it described the Obama care supported simply wanting something for "free" and as disrespectful, Mean, and ignorant. It ended with a quote from Henry ford. I'll post the story. I was so angry that my sister in law would post such drivel. Our relationship was almost destroyed. I just kept asking she not share something with NO info in it, no facts, just making people who support Obama car look bad!! During our argument she told me about a poor black girl with cancer who needs treatment and how Obama care is making sure she will die!! I was flabbergasted! I told her to have the girl call me and that I would get her help. Read it here:

     "was in my neighborhood restaurant this morning and was seated behind a group of jubilant individuals celebrating the coming implementation of the health care bill. I could not finish my breakfast. This is what ensued:
     They were a diverse group of several races and both sexes. I heard a young man exclaim, “Isn’t Obama like Jesus Christ? I mean, after all, he is healing the sick.”

    A young woman enthusiastically proclaimed, “Yeah, and he does it for free. I cannot believe anyone would think that a free market wouldn't work for health care.”

    Another said, "The stupid Republicans want us all to starve to death so they can inherit all of the power. Obama should be made a Saint for what he did for those of us less fortunate.”

    At this, I had more than enough. I arose from my seat, mustering all the restraint I could find, and approached their table. “Please excuse me; may I impose upon you for one moment?”

    They smiled and welcomed me to the conversation. I stood at the end of their table, smiled as best I could and began an experiment.
    “I would like to give one of you my house. It will cost you no money and I will pay all of the expenses and taxes for as long as you live there. Anyone interested?”

    They looked at each other in astonishment. “Why would you do something like that?” asked a young man, “There isn’t anything for free in this world.”
    They began to laugh at me, as they did not realize this man had just made my point.

    “I am serious, I will give you my house for free, no money whatsoever. Anyone interested?”

    In unison, a resounding “Yeah” fills the room.
    “Since there are too many of you, I will have to make a choice as to who receives this money-free bargain.”

    I noticed an elderly couple was paying attention to the spectacle unfolding before their eyes, the old man shaking his head in apparent disgust.

    “I tell you what; I will give it to the one of you most willing to obey my rules.”

    Again, they looked at one another, an expression of bewilderment on their faces.

     The perky young woman asked, “What are the rules?”

    I smiled and said, “I don’t know. I have not yet defined them. However, it is a free home that I offer you.”

    They giggled amongst themselves, the youngest of which said, “What an old coot. He must be crazy to give away his home. Go take your meds, old man.”

    I smiled and leaned into the table a bit further. “I am serious, this is a legitimate offer.”

    They gaped at me for a moment.
    “I’ll take it you old fool. Where are the keys?” boasted the youngest among them.

    “Then I presume you accept ALL of my terms then?” I asked.

     The elderly couple seemed amused and entertained as they watched from the privacy of their table. “Oh yeah! Where do I sign up?”

    I took a napkin and wrote, “I give this man my home, without the burden of financial obligation, so long as he accepts and abides by the terms that I shall set forth upon consummation of this transaction.”
    I signed it and handed it to the young man who eagerly scratched out his signature.

    “Where are the keys to my new house?” he asked in a mocking tone of voice.

     All eyes were upon us as I stepped back from the table, pulling the keys from pocket and dangling them before the excited new homeowner.
    “Now that we have entered into this binding contract, witnessed by all of your friends, I have decided upon the conditions you are obligated to adhere to from this point forward. You may only live in the house for one hour a day. You will not use anything inside of the home. You will obey me without question or resistance. I expect complete loyalty and admiration for this gift I bestow upon you. You will accept my commands and wishes with enthusiasm, no matter the nature. Your morals and principles shall be as mine. You will vote as I do, think as I do and do it with blind faith. These are my terms. Here are your keys.”
    I reached the keys forward and the young man looked at me dumbfounded.
    “Are you out of your mind? Who would ever agree to those ridiculous terms?” the young man appeared irritated.

    “You did when you signed this contract before reading it, understanding it and with the full knowledge that I would provide my conditions only after you committed to the agreement.”

    The elderly man chuckled as his wife tried to restrain him. I was looking at a now silenced and bewildered group of people.

    “You can shove that stupid deal up your a** old man. I want no part of it!” exclaimed the now infuriated young man.

     'You have committed to the contract, as witnessed by all of your friends. You cannot get out of the deal unless I agree to it. I do not intend to let you free now that I have you ensnared. I am the power you agreed to. I am the one you blindly and without thought chose to enslave yourself to. In short, I am your Master.”

    At this, the table of celebrating individuals became a unified group against the unfairness of the deal.

     After a few moments of unrepeatable comments and slurs, I revealed my true intent.

    “What I did to you is what this administration and congress did to you with the health care legislation. I easily suckered you in and then revealed the real cost of the bargain. Your folly was in the belief that you can have something you did not earn, and for that which you did not earn, you willingly allowed someone else to think for you. Your failure to research, study and inform yourself permitted reason to escape you. You have entered into a trap from which you cannot flee. Your only chance of freedom is if your new Master gives it to you. A freedom that is given can also be taken away. Therefore, it is not freedom at all.”

    With that, I tore up the napkin and placed it before the astonished young man. “This is the nature of your new health care legislation.”
    I turned away to leave these few in thought and contemplation -- and was surprised by applause.

     The elderly gentleman, who was clearly entertained, shook my hand enthusiastically and said, “Thank you, Sir. These kids don’t understand Liberty .”

    He refused to allow me to pay my bill as he said, “You earned this one. It is an honor to pick up the tab.”

    I shook his hand in thanks, leaving the restaurant somewhat humbled and sensing a glimmer of hope for my beloved country.
     1. Remember... Four boxes keep us free: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.
     2. THIS SHOULD GO AROUND THE UNITED STATES SO PEOPLE CAN SEE JUST WHAT IS GOING ON. MAYBE EVEN THE POLITICALLY BLIND ONES WILL LEARN SOMETHING FROM IT.

     "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous
     by letting the American Government
     take care of him;
     better take a closer look at the American Indian."

    •  Right here: (18+ / 0-)
      “What I did to you is what this administration and congress did to you with the health care legislation. I easily suckered you in and then revealed the real cost of the bargain. Your folly was in the belief that you can have something you did not earn, and for that which you did not earn, you willingly allowed someone else to think for you. Your failure to research, study and inform yourself permitted reason to escape you. You have entered into a trap from which you cannot flee. Your only chance of freedom is if your new Master gives it to you. A freedom that is given can also be taken away. Therefore, it is not freedom at all.”
      Is where it all falls apart.

      The recipients didn't have a vote, Congress did. Congress had the Bill, in all of its detail ... indeed they complained that there was too much detail. Congress signed a contract that they had every word of, in advance.

      Now if this story replaced ObamaCare with Scott Walker, then it would make an excellent point. He was not elected to do what he is doing, because he never mentioned ANY of it during his campaign. He campaigned on creating jobs in Wisconsin ... What he has done is destroy them instead.

      If I missed the point of the story, let me know.

      I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
      but I fear we will remain Democrats.

      Who is twigg?

      by twigg on Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 05:46:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  AND the insurance companies NOW have the key... (11+ / 0-)

        That's the part that kills me. Insurance companies are making the life and death decisions for us right now!! No the AHCA does not solve all of this...and no there is no freedom. But I would rather have the government have control of "my health care house" than "the free market insurance companies". Were we all suckered? Nope most of us knew better but we also knew that getting at least some protection...some control over the key holder was better than none at all. Sharing the power better than one entity have complete power.

        •  That was always the answer (17+ / 0-)

          to the ridiculous "death panel" meme.

          The insurance companies have been determining the treatment available since forever. They have been operating "death panels" ever since the system began, something that Universal Healthcare would end.

          There may have to be some limits to treatments, but they would be transparent, and we would be able to discuss them and vote accordingly.

          I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
          but I fear we will remain Democrats.

          Who is twigg?

          by twigg on Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 06:22:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Insurers have a lot of control, still (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          True North, ColoTim, sillycarrot

          There are indications in California that some insurers will restrict the range of their networks for new subscribers (under Obamacare), as a cost-savings measure. You'll have insurance, but if you want to see the doctor you are accustomed to, you may find out they are "out of network" now. This is not something the law proscribes.

          •  There have always been networks (0+ / 0-)

            but if your provider isn't on the one your insurer has you can ask him/her to apply to be on their panel.

            Most doctors will do that.

            One of the things the panel system does is greatly limit the amount of fraud — by providers. The amount of fraud in Medicare and Medicaid is/was staggering but the Obama administration is working on eliminating it — as much as possible.

            So a lot of the "limited panels" and some denials are FRAUD saving measures.

            I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

            by samddobermann on Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 02:24:36 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  It's all bullshit. (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        twigg, True North, eru, ColoTim, JerryNA

        I find it hilarious that you were able to point out where a complete and utterly false story falls apart!  There's not a single bit of truth in it, but this is even better.  Thanks!

        The priest said, "Today's sermon is called 'Liars', but first I have a question. How many of you have read Chapter 66 in Matthew?" Nearly every hand went up. "You're just the group I need to speak to," the priest said. "There's no such chapter."

        by Back In Blue on Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 07:46:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  just tell your sister in law (13+ / 0-)

      that nothing about Obamacare is free, you pay an insurance premium, the difference between Obamacare and the old system is, the insurance company can't refuse to dance with you and actually has to know, dance, ie pay for some care.   It may still prove too expensive, doesn't make as much sense as single payer,  but it isn't slavery or getting something for nothing.

      Typical right wing blather, right down to mixed races, young people and slavery.    Free the white men from the tyranny of intelligent living.

    •  No one actually said that (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      True North, ColoTim, tobendaro, Val

      Someone made it up.

      I'm living in America, and in America you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business.

      by CFAmick on Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 07:52:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  True story! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      True North, ColoTim

      Please lol. But I think a lot of people reading it on FB and in emails will take it as true. That just makes the jobs of (a) getting the truth out and (b) enrolling these maroons even more important.

      It's not about the hundred people whose minds you can't change. It's about the two people you empower. ~ Beth Ditto

      by dejavu on Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 07:54:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  it's amazing that anyone can believe these stories (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ColoTim, tobendaro, GayHillbilly, JerryNA, Val

      the very beginning of the story doesn't even sound like the way people talk!  Obama is a saint?  Obama heals the sick for free? what is wrong with these people?

      Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
      Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights for support in dealing with grief.

      by TrueBlueMajority on Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 08:44:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Seriously, what is wrong with these people?????? (5+ / 0-)

    Thank god they are in a minority - gerrymandered albeit, but a minority.   They shouldn't be allowed to reproduce.

    I have three politically incorrect, straight, white male, grandchildren; and I don't care if you think they're important or not.

    by dkmich on Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 05:39:35 AM PDT

  •  Some people are just cheapskates (6+ / 0-)

    Actually, Texas has a risk pool for people like the nurse you talk about.  I suspect she is one of those who people who just do not like paying for health insurance.

  •  You mentioned the look on her face but... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TexasTom, Catte Nappe

    what did she actually say?  

    If you were talking to her I assume that she used her words after you asked her the question.

    Who ya gonna shoot wit dat homie, you'd rather blast an original instead of a phony, true macaroni, you don't even know me, and why does your gun say n****z only?

    by mim5677 on Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 06:02:41 AM PDT

  •  Wow (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jts327, rsmpdx
    It seems that in Texas, no one will admit that they plan to take advantage of the change in the health care laws.
    So, from a conversation with one person, you generalize to an entire state?  

    How aboslutely, utterly lame.  You took a potentially good story with a serious point and wrecked it by making such a foolish generalization.

    Political Compass: -6.75, -3.08

    by TexasTom on Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 06:12:41 AM PDT

  •  Darwinism in action (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jts327, ColoTim, Buckeye54

    If people are too stubborn to take advantage of the benefits of Obamacare just because they've been told they're supposed to hate Obamacare, then put it down to evolution's way of weeding out the dummies.   The human race is starting to be choked off with stupid people, so if they'll kill themselves off with their own idiocy, that'll be beneficial to everyone.

    "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

    by Front Toward Enemy on Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 07:35:25 AM PDT

    •  Not so fast... (6+ / 0-)

      A big part of me applauds the idea of thinning the herd (i.e. cleaning out the gene pool), but we all know that these people will be the first ones to dial 911 when they're deathly ill or in an accident. They'll demand the best of care, and then complain that the hospital and doctors are driving them bankrupt. In the end, the hospital will simply pass on the costs to everyone with health insurance.

      Side note: Did you ever notice how the teabillies have an absolute hissy fit about raising taxes on big business, or raising the minimum wage, because the costs will simply be passed on to the consumer, but have no trouble at all with anti-Obamacare nut jobs passing on their healthcare costs to the rest of us? Isn't "Just use the emergency room" a Republican welfare program, where we transfer income from us hard workin' Mercans to the unworthy freeloaders?  I'm just sayin'...

      In their eyes there's something lacking; what they need's a damn good whacking.

      by Mad City 67 on Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 08:06:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Doesn't really work very well (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jts327, ColoTim, Front Toward Enemy

      because they're very likely reproduced by the time it becomes important for them to take advantage of the benefits of Obamacare.

      •  Darwinian success is not only a matter (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Front Toward Enemy

        of living long enough to reproduce. For an intensely social species like us, with an extremely long childhood, it depends also on being around long enough to help one's children and grandchildren succeed in life.

        Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

        by Mokurai on Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 09:49:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  agreed (0+ / 0-)

    they really have no clue except for what Fox or Rush tells them.

    -You want to change the system, run for office.

    by Deep Texan on Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 10:23:55 AM PDT

  •  I love how they can act all shocked..... (0+ / 0-)

    ...when we suggest that better access to health care is a good idea, but when they go on and on with their anti-women, anti-gay, American Taliban claptrap, we are supposed to grin and bear it.

    If you hate government, don't run for office in that government.

    by Bensdad on Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 10:57:13 AM PDT

  •  do healthcare professionals still take an oath? (0+ / 0-)

    English translation, version 1[edit source | editbeta]
    Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panacea and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfill according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:
    To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art — if they desire to learn it — without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken an oath according to the medical law, but to no one else.
    I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.
    I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody if asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.
    I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.
    Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.
    What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself holding such things shameful to be spoken about.
    If I fulfill this path and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honored with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot.[4]
    English translation, version 2[edit source | editbeta]
    I swear by Apollo, the healer, Asclepius, Hygieia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment, the following Oath and agreement:
    To consider dear to me, as my parents, him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and, if necessary, to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art; and that by my teaching, I will impart a knowledge of this art to my own sons, and to my teacher's sons, and to disciples bound by an indenture and oath according to the medical laws, and no others.
    I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.
    I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.
    But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts.
    I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art.
    In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or men, be they free or slaves.
    All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.
    If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practise my art, respected by all humanity and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my life.

    per wiki of course:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/...

  •  My sister in Houston, a small business (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    samddobermann

    owner, is promoting PPACA-based coverage to all her friends and relatives.

    I guess the antis don't have the entire population of the state cowed, diarist's caricature notwithstanding.

    She writes:

    Yes, there’s a mindset among some Texans that invites cartoons.  Unfortunately, some of them occupy high-level state offices, and are more interested in their right-wing political credentials than they are in the well-being of “those people.”  I think they’d be surprised how many of “those people” are hard-working people, including small-business owners.

    I can't help it. I love the state of Texas. It's a harmless perversion. - Molly Ivins

    by rsmpdx on Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 11:52:00 AM PDT

    •  Good for her. I hope she knows (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rsmpdx

      and tells about the up to 50% tax credit for the cost of providing insurance to employees available to employers.

      I'm glad she is spreading the word. It will help.

      I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

      by samddobermann on Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 02:35:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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