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I went to my neighborhood Whole Foods recently to purchase some Eden's chili which I always buy and the product was no longer on the shelf.

Eden's is the only canned food that I know of without BPA so I always buy it.  So I called Eden's and asked why Whole Foods didn't carry the product and I asked them why they don't put the USDA organic label on their products.

The product was probably not on the shelf due to lack of sales, but the organic label was not on the can as something of a protest.    

http://www.edenfoods.com/...

The most serious degradation of national organic standards occurred in October 2005. In a back room deal the Organic Trade Association lobbied Congress to legalize the adulteration of organic food with basically any toxic additive a manufacturer may want to use, including substances that do not need to appear on ingredient panels. More than 400,000 consumers contacted their government representatives asking them not to weaken organic standards in such a way, but agribusiness influences prevailed.

I always buy organic because in my opinion, the food is better.  The producer usually takes more care in its production besides the added benefit of not having pesticides and other poisons.

But the big question is whether or not Eden's is correct in claiming that:

As a result, food bearing the 'USDA Organic' seal no longer needs to be natural food.
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Comment Preferences

  •  Maybe the USDA hired a chemist! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ontheleftcoast, adamsrb, CroneWit

    To be even more specific, an organic chemist who decided to put the food labeling standards more line with the scientific implications of the word.

    •  LOL, have you screamed in horror at finding (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Roadbed Guy

      "Organic Sea Salt"? I know I have. :P

      Spite is the ranch dressing Republicans slather on their salad of racism

      by ontheleftcoast on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 12:25:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  OMG! that sounds very horrifying . . .. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ontheleftcoast, jabney

        but that's just me, who is somebody who has been traumatized thoroughly by "Washed Sea Sand" - really, check out the MSDS it's nasty, nasty stuff.

        And to top it all off, just a few weeks ago I saw parents let their kids actually play in the un-Washed version thereof.

        Scary, scary stuff.

        But on the plus side, no was claiming it was organic.  At least as far as I know.

    •  Do you mean everything alive or that was... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      navajo, JesseCW

      ...once alive should be labeled "organic"?

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 01:05:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It doesn't have to have once been alive to be (0+ / 0-)

        organic - it simply has to contain carbon.

        That is the scientific definition - every other definition is mere fluff, really, invented for marketing purposes as far as I can tell.

        •  Fluff except that your definition is No. 4... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          navajo, JesseCW

          ...in my Oxford Illustrated Dictionary.

          No. 3 is "produced or involving production without chemical fertilizers or pesticides, etc."

          Or Merriam-Webster:

          3a (1):  of, relating to, or derived from living organisms

          (2):  of, relating to, yielding, or involving the use of food produced with the use of feed or fertilizer of plant or animal origin without employment of chemically formulated fertilizers, growth stimulants, antibiotics, or pesticides

          b (1):  of, relating to, or containing carbon compounds (2) :  relating to, being, or dealt with by a branch of chemistry concerned with the carbon compounds of living beings and most other carbon compounds.

          The Online Science Dictionary:
          Describes agricultural raw materials which have been grown without chemical fertilizers, pesticides or growth promoters. Organic foods have agricultural inputs grown or processed from organic raw materials. For a food to be legally defined as organic in the EU not less than 95% of the agricultural inputs must be from organic sources. If between 50% and 95% of the agricultural input is organic this can be declared, but only on the ingredient list.
          In asking the question, I was trying to narrow down your response to determine what your exact position is. I take that position to be, based on your comment, that ANY "organic" label is BS and that telling people certain food hasn't been grown using pesticides, synthetic fertilizers, hormones, additives, gene modification, etc., is bogus.

          Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

          by Meteor Blades on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 04:02:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Again, that is anti-scientific fluff (0+ / 0-)

            specifically this:

            Describes agricultural raw materials which ave been grown without chemical fertilizers, pesticides or growth promoters
            .

            nothing grows without "chemical fertilizers" - be they natural (e.g.,  manure or nutrients leached out of rock) or man-made (Miracle-Gro), they are involved in the process.

            Similarly, if you don't give plant "artificial" pesticides, they make their own, in massive quantities in many cases.  It is simply not possible to have a pesticide free plant.

            Similarly, "growth promoters" is an incredibly vague term that could mean anything at all.

            And finally, same with "genetic modification" - all foods people eat have been genetically modified.  

            Basically, all of these processes are ubiquitous, and seem to be perfectly fine if they take place "naturally" but are taboo is done with human assistance - even though your blockquotes seem to avoid explicit mention of such anti-scientific Ludditism.

            Thus, the only definition of "organic" that is rigorous is the "carbon containing" one.  In the context of foodstuffs, the term is totally marketing fluff.

    •  That trustworthy Bush administration was just (0+ / 0-)

      looking out for us.

      That's the ticket.

      "But the traitors will pretend / that it's gettin' near the end / when it's beginning" P. Ochs

      by JesseCW on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 07:26:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Organic has been stolen by Big Ag (6+ / 0-)

    Worse, they've put expensive barriers in place that makes it next to impossible for small farms and other producers to get the "USDA Organic" sticker on their products.

    At this point if you really want organic and local your best bet are local farmer's markets. Get to know the growers in your area and support them.

    Spite is the ranch dressing Republicans slather on their salad of racism

    by ontheleftcoast on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 12:24:47 PM PDT

  •  Umm... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kevskos, Roadbed Guy, CroneWit
    Is USDA Organic Really Organic?
    Well, there's a carbon molecule, or there's not. Easy to test.

    But seriously- Anything on the GRAS lists ( Generally Regarded As Safe) is allowable under the OMRI Rule. ( I know the Rule entirely too well).

    Loopholes you could drive a truck through. They're kinda moot, though, as organic agriculture isn't about the consumer at all- It's about long-term soil health.

    In the world of food, it's strictly a marketing thing. Means about as much as New! or Improved!

    So who cares whether they paid for the seal or not?

    •  One of most organic things out there is HFCS (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Remembering Jello

      it's totally biological in origin, carefully removed from any pesticides, etc that might have been introduced during the growth of the host plant.

      Furthermore, the "high fructose" angle comes from enzymatic conversion of the plant-grown glucose - how benign is that?

      At least compared to Jell-O!

      How can one possibly mold Jell-O into so many different shapes? The gelatin in Jell-O is what allows you to get so creative -- but what exactly is gelatin, anyway? Gelatin is just a processed version of a structural protein called collagen that is found in many animals, including humans. Collagen makes up almost one-third of all the protein in the human body. Collagen is a fibrous protein that strengthens the body's connective tissues and allows them to be elastic – that is, to stretch without breaking. As you get older, your body makes less collagen, and individual collagen fibers become increasingly cross-linked with each other. You might experience this as stiff joints from less flexible tendons, or wrinkles due to loss of skin elasticity.
      Gelatin can come from the collagen in cow or pig bones, hides and connective tissues. Today, the gelatin in Jell-O is most likely to come from pigskin.
       (editorial note, "mmm, mmm, mmm!")
      Collagen doesn't dissolve in water in its natural form, so it must be modified to make gelatin. Manufacturers grind the body parts and treat them with either a strong acid or a strong base to dissolve the collagen. Then the pre-treated material is boiled.

      Controls at every step of the process ensure purity and safety. (editorial note, "of course!")

      link
    •  It's almost as if the same word can have (0+ / 0-)

      more than one commonly accepted meaning depending on context.

      "But the traitors will pretend / that it's gettin' near the end / when it's beginning" P. Ochs

      by JesseCW on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 07:29:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sure, but the point is that one (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Remembering Jello

        "commonly accepted meaning" actually has meaning.

        The other is nothing but gibberish - as nicely illustrated by the definition MB posted above:

        3a (1):  of, relating to, or derived from living organisms

        (2):  of, relating to, yielding, or involving the use of food produced with the use of feed or fertilizer of plant or animal origin without employment of chemically formulated fertilizers, growth stimulants, antibiotics, or pesticides

        b (1):  of, relating to, or containing carbon compounds (2) :  relating to, being, or dealt with by a branch of chemistry concerned with the carbon compounds of living beings and most other carbon compounds.

        That definition, while "commonly accepted" is complete scientific nonsense considering that each and every plant out there requires "chemically formulated fertilizers"  - for example gaseous nitrogen (N2) that has been chemically formulated (aka known as "fixed" in this context) to ammonia (NH3) - which can be accomplished either industrially or by symbiotic bacteria in some cases.  But either, they need it, and can't tell the difference one they receive it.

        Similar considerations apply to phosphorous, a chemical that plants must obtain from the outside to live and grow, and further this chemical must be formulated into phosphate.

        That's just the tip of the iceberg, but I think the point is made that just because something is commonly accepted, that it means anything.

        But like myself and others have pointed out, it's a great marketing scheme.

        •  A fantastic marketing scheme. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Roadbed Guy

          I still can't quite believe that there's a market for "organic" tobacco/marijuana.

          Folks, yer gonna light it on fire and then inhale the smoke.

          The byproducts of that reaction are going to be much much more toxic than anything that was used on the plants.

          ...And yet you'll pay significantly more.

          •  Reminds me of a tour of an RJReynolds (0+ / 0-)

            facility (back in the '80s, don't know if they still give them) where they played up how clean their tobacco processing facilities were - they were WAY below (the quite low) government limits for rat feces, dead insects, etc being accidentally introduced into their products.

            Yeah, like * that's * the problem with cigarettes!

  •  "USDA Organic" means I DON'T want to buy it! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Meteor Blades, catfishbob, corvo, JesseCW

    I figured this out ages ago. I also recently looked up a couple of other "organic" labels from org.s I didn't readily recognize, and found that several of them (sorry, don't remember which ones) are apparently from food industry "beards" that were created JUST SO they could create an "organic seal of approval" thingie for manufactured-food-like-substance-producers to stick on their packaging.

    I mostly shop-the-perimeter, & venture into the heart-of-darkness only for a few raw ingredients (i.e. bread flour, I have water & sourdough yeast at home), so don't worry much about labels!

    Well, I'm pretty sure the "Oregon Tilth" association's imprimatur still means something... they certify organic farms & food processors, internationally these days, not just in the US or the Pacific NW!

    "real" work : a job where you wash your hands BEFORE you use the bathroom...

    by chimene on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 12:48:46 PM PDT

  •  Styrofoam is organic. (3+ / 0-)

    Eg, plants/animals to petroleum to ethylene to polystyrene/styrofoam.

    Warren/3-D Print of Warren in 2016!

    by dov12348 on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 01:16:44 PM PDT

  •  Organic is a nonsense marketing term (3+ / 0-)

    So protesting the misaligned definition of an undefined term is a quadratic form of nonsense.

  •  Grow your own ... (0+ / 0-)

    the only way to be sure its grown the way you want.  

  •  But while we're at it . . . (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JesseCW, Debby, Roadbed Guy

    Yes, "USDA Organic" is a corporate fraud, but why are you buying Eden Foods products?  Don't you know that they're filing suit against the government because of the federal mandate that requires that employee health insurance contain contraception coverage?

    Eden Foods is run by the worst kind of right-wing Catholics who don't believe in civilized standards of women's health care.

    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

    by corvo on Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 07:23:53 PM PDT

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