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House Speaker John Boehner explains his whack-a-doodle list of demands for not sending the nation spiraling into crisis.
On the debt limit, we're going to introduce a plan that ties important spending cuts and pro-growth reforms to a debt limit increase. Now the president says "I'm not gonna negotiate." Well, I'm sorry but it just doesn't work that way. [...]
Yes, that's exactly how it works. That's how it's worked 42 times since 1980, including 17 times under Ronald Reagan and seven times under George W. Bush. With no hostages taken. Because putting conditions on whether or not the country goes into default, thereby sparking a global economic crisis, is fucking insane.

And what happened to Boehner's insistence last week that he was refusing to negotiate with Obama? Or his insistence back in January that his negotiating days with Obama were over?

If anybody is driving the clown car that is the House GOP conference, it's clearly not Boehner. Which would make this thing pretty hilarious and extremely pathetic for Boehner, except for that whole global economic crisis part.

Originally posted to Joan McCarter on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:09 AM PDT.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (33+ / 0-)

    "The NSA’s capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything. [...] There would be no place to hide."--Frank Church

    by Joan McCarter on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:09:06 AM PDT

  •  After yesterday....Boner has to out-crazy Cruz... (9+ / 0-)

    are you not paying contention McJoan?....;-)

  •  i must have a fuzzy memory (13+ / 0-)

    because i could swear we played this game just a year ago. or should i say- we were played.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:15:19 AM PDT

    •  Yep (5+ / 0-)

      Every time I do a google search for daily kos stories on the budget/debt ceiling, I get two year old results.

      "The NSA’s capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything. [...] There would be no place to hide."--Frank Church

      by Joan McCarter on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:18:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  We were played (4+ / 0-)

      Obama actually took them seriously at the beginning of his term. It took him a long time to realize that the the Republicans' idea of negotiating was to make Obama look as bad as possible while agreeing to absolutely nothing, even when he gave them exactly what they asked for.

      •  he's a seriously smart guy (6+ / 0-)

        i don't think a seriously smart guy could get played so many times.

        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

        by Laurence Lewis on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:22:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  He doesn't seem to grasp (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          hnichols, Odysseus, JVolvo

          that Lucy will never let him kick that football.

        •  I love the attitude of "no credit to the Pres. . . (0+ / 0-)

          for his accomplishments" and "here's what he should have done, which we KNOW would have turned out so much better."

          Do you think this attitude is helping? We have actual terrible people to fight. They're called Republicans, and they're certainly fighting us.

          TS

          twitter: @Timeslayer_

          by Timeslayer on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 09:40:19 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  they're fighting us (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JVolvo

            would be nice if we fought them.

            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

            by Laurence Lewis on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 01:12:06 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  My point is that. . . (0+ / 0-)

              as a strong Democrat who was beyond appalled by Bush's invasion of Iraq and the hundreds of thousands of innocent lives destroyed by that war - Iraqi and American - and also beyond appalled by EVERYTHING Republicans have done since then, it's clear to me that defeating THEM should be our first priority.

              Do you think President Obama has accomplished some good things so far? I'm sure he has, and I doubt you'd disagree completely. Regardless, as a matter of electoral politics, the only vehicle for defeating our ENEMY, Republicans, is the Democratic Party.

              It's very discouraging that so many of us write off our Democratic president as a failure. Especially in light of what he HAS accomplished while being hampered by utterly depraved Republicans at virtually every turn.

              And if you disagree that Republicans are THE enemy, you really must not be paying attention.

              TS

              twitter: @Timeslayer_

              by Timeslayer on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 02:01:19 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  it's not about obama (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JVolvo

                it's about the issues. when obama does well, he deserves praise. when he does poorly, he deserves to be criticized. on this issue he deserves criticism for enabling the republicans. i appreciate when he fights the republicans.

                The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                by Laurence Lewis on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 02:04:14 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Agreed, but from my perspective. . . (0+ / 0-)

                  he's done well a lot more than he's done poorly. Not in relation to ideal circumstances that do not exist, but in relation to the real-world America, i.e., a BADLY dysfunctional, barely-standing democracy with a craven corporate media whose main function is to propagate lies in the interest of big business (which COMPLETELY owns you know which party).

                  Progressive policies that benefit non-wealthy people are a very tough sell in this political environment. And yet we now have the Affordable Care Act (which IS what Biden said it is), financial reform, increased CAFE standards, significant GHG restrictions on new power plants on the way, an end to the Iraq War (which our President had the intelligence to oppose before it began), an end to "Don't Ask Don't Tell", an end to the belligerent fear-mongering and war-making that defined the Bush administration (and Osama Bin Laden actually dead), and a vastly less corrupt and more accountable federal government. Again, all despite the constant obstruction of absolutely deplorable Republicans. And President Obama had to fight for every one of those accomplishments (which are just some of more high-profile ones).

                  So from my perspective, a lot of the vitriol from the left directed at President Obama is unjustified (and counterproductive), caused by a failure to appreciate the strength of the powers that oppose him, and how that reality must inform his decision-making.

                  Also, any party that tries to prevent people of minority races from voting needs to be vanquished ASAP.

                  TS

                  twitter: @Timeslayer_

                  by Timeslayer on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 02:32:45 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  again (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    JVolvo

                    this isn't an assessment of his overall record, it's an assessment of his handling of this issue. and policies that benefit the non-wealthy are enormously popular with the public. the more he fights the republicans, the more popular he will be.

                    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                    by Laurence Lewis on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 02:57:57 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Ok. Well I agree that he should not offer. . . (0+ / 0-)

                      any concessions to Republicans in exchange for an increase in the debt ceiling. I think he himself admitted that he made a mistake in his approach to this situation last time.

                      I hope he becomes more popular as he increasingly calls out Republicans specifically for their awfulness. But do you think Republicans will pay for their actions in next year's elections? I don't think they will, b/c (1) they really never have, at least to the degree that would be justified, and (2) they have mastered control of the mainstream media, which bends over backwards to give "equal time" to their lies and never adequately rebuts them for the sake of informing the public. Far too many potential-Democratic voters will still be in the dark and vote Republican out of ignorance.

                      I really hope I'm wrong.

                      TS

                      twitter: @Timeslayer_

                      by Timeslayer on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 03:13:00 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

      •  No-one as demonstrably smart as Obama (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Joe Bacon, hnichols, JVolvo

        can "get played" that many times, in largely the same fashion, by largely the same group of people.

        Whatever payoff Wall Street has arranged for him, I hope it's worth it for him having to pretend to halve his IQ every time the Republicans make another ransom demand.

        "Violence never requires translation, but it often causes deafness." - Bareesh the Hutt.

        by Australian2 on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:52:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Educated experienced people like Boehner have (14+ / 0-)

    no excuse.  Their years of education and knowledge holds them to accountability.  Thus, he is a lying, disingenuous, mendacious, experienced piece of shit.

    Ayn sucks. Please know I am not rude. I cannot rec anything from this browser. When I rec or post diaries I am a guest at some exotic locale's computer.

    by Floyd Blue on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:18:16 AM PDT

    •  The guy has had 42 votes to repeal Obamacare.... (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Gorette, shoeless, sunbro, thomask, JVolvo

      can't give up now.

      •  Can they hit the big 5 oh???!!! (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skillet, sunbro, thomask, Faito

        Ayn sucks. Please know I am not rude. I cannot rec anything from this browser. When I rec or post diaries I am a guest at some exotic locale's computer.

        by Floyd Blue on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:41:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Author Rita Rae Brown (0+ / 0-)

          in her book "Sudden Death" (1983):

          "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results."
          (Note: Quote is often erroneously attributed to Albert Einstein.)

          -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

          by sunbro on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:57:44 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I submit that the actions of Boehner are (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bryduck

            producing exactly the results he, and his party, expect. Specifically, less government and less government spending.

            There isn't any insanity here, just a clear headed disdain for the American people.

            Less government and less government spending IS what the Republican party ran on when they got elected. How else could they bring about these results?

            In a world of the blind, the one eyed man is a pariah. Ask Galileo. Ask Darwin.

            by OKParrothead on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 09:12:07 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm willing to take the risk of holding firm. (0+ / 0-)

              President Obama does not need to be elected in 2016, and people are still likely to blame Republicans if:

              A. They hold the country hostage to their demands, and

              B. We continually point this out that they are doing this unnecessarily. We need to promote this point, and repeat it until it is indelibly the conventional wisdom in the minds of well over half the voters.

              -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

              by sunbro on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 09:19:48 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Don't beat around the bush here... (0+ / 0-)

      what is it you're trying to say?

      /snark

      I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

      by mojo11 on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:57:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  If Boehner doesn't lose his job in the (0+ / 0-)

      election of 2014, he stands to lose his job as speaker if he allows anything constructive to get done between now and then.  If he enlists the aid of the Democrats to pass anything, his members will punish him, and if he doesn't, nothing will be done at all.  

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 09:12:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Boner who™? n/t (5+ / 0-)

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:19:14 AM PDT

  •  Actual facts matter here. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VClib, nextstep

    In modern times, a "clean bill" raising the debt ceiling, without opposition and without demands by the party that does not have the White House, has not really been the norm.  It started in 1953, during the Eisenhower administration, when he had opposition from Sen. Byrd. Ss another example, in 1973, Sen. Kennedy and Sen. Mondale tried to attach campaign finance reform to the bill.   Clean bills have happened, of course, but it's not factually accurate to say, or even to imply, that it's essentially unprecedented for one side to try to attach other provisions to an increase in the debt ceiling.  

    See here and here.  See a more comprehensive history here.

    I suspect that Speaker Boehner would point to those facts in support of his statement. He probably is stretching things a bit, but of course (as those links point out) so is the Administration.

    •  Those situations are hardly equivalent to what (8+ / 0-)

      the GOP is trying to do.  They're trying to overturn the results of an election by threatening to default.  The President is right to make the argument that this is unprecedented.

      Global Shakedown - Alternative rock with something to say. Check out their latest release, "A Time to Recognize": Available on iTunes, Amazon, Google Play, Spotify and other major online music sites. Visit http://www.globalshakedown.com.

      by khyber900 on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:36:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's a matter of degree. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        VClib, NoMoJoe

        What you are saying is, yes, Democrats made demands in exchange for the raising debt limit, but Republican demands are worse.  I was not trying to argue that one was better or worse than the other.  That's a matter of opinion, not fact.  And I'm sure that the vast majority of people here would agree with your opinion.

        I wanted to point out facts.  Those links demonstrate that (1) it's not all that unusual to have to negotiate over raising the debt ceiling; and (2) it's not unprecedented to have one party make demands (even demands unrelated to debt) in exchange for raising the debt limit.  

        •  which year was it that the democrats (7+ / 0-)

          threatened default? i forget

          Sarah Palin is a disgusting racist pig.

          by memofromturner on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:52:36 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What do you mean by "threatened default"? (0+ / 0-)

            If by "threatened," you mean saying, "if I had my way, we would not raise the debt ceiling," that's happened a lot.  Any time a Senator or Congressman votes against raising the debt limit, he/she is voting for the United States to default.  So, many people on both sides of the aisle (including then-Senator Obama) have voted against raising the debt limit, which -- if he had gotten a majority on his side -- would have meant default.  It is true that, even though his vote would have meant default if he had had a majority voting with him, he did not have a majority voting with him.  (The President has recognized that his "no" vote was a mistake.)

            If by "threatened" you mean "If I had my way, we would not raise the debt ceiling AND I may have a majority voting no with me" this is the first time in recent memory that those voting no may have enough votes to constitute a majority in one chamber.

            •  the democratic party threatened to force a default (5+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              msdrown, S F Hippie, howie14, JVolvo, Tonedevil

              in what year?

              Sarah Palin is a disgusting racist pig.

              by memofromturner on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 09:10:48 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  memof - I think she answers that question here (0+ / 0-)

                it's up in the same stream if you want to click the links.

                     Actual facts matter here.

                    In modern times, a "clean bill" raising the debt ceiling, without opposition and without demands by the party that does not have the White House, has not really been the norm.  It started in 1953, during the Eisenhower administration, when he had opposition from Sen. Byrd. Ss another example, in 1973, Sen. Kennedy and Sen. Mondale tried to attach campaign finance reform to the bill.   Clean bills have happened, of course, but it's not factually accurate to say, or even to imply, that it's essentially unprecedented for one side to try to attach other provisions to an increase in the debt ceiling.  

                    See here and here.  See a more comprehensive history here.

                    I suspect that Speaker Boehner would point to those facts in support of his statement. He probably is stretching things a bit, but of course (as those links point out) so is the Administration.

                    by coffeetalk on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:31:05 AM PDT

                "let's talk about that"

                by VClib on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 03:51:06 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  If by default you mean the US debt (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            nextstep, Odysseus

            that won't happen. The President, Treasury Secretary and Fed Chairman will not allow the United States to not redeem any maturing Treasury obligation or not pay any interest due on the debt. The idea that the US could default on its debt is kabuki theater of the highest order. That does not mean that there could be a government shutdown, causing significant economic pain to many innocent parties. However, we will not default on the debt. I have every confidence that President Obama won't allow it to happen.

            "let's talk about that"

            by VClib on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 09:06:23 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  So you are saying that when the Presidency (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite, Tonedevil

      is held by the other party it is pretty common not to raise the debt limit. Why is that?

      I think what you just demonstrated was that in either case there is not an honest approach to the policy.

    •  I believe the comment is 42 TIMES not 42 (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tonedevil

      years.  I know for sure GWB had to raise the debt ceiling at least 10-12 times during his 8 years.

  •  Ooooo. Marsha Blackburn looks like she just (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dem Beans, skillet, shoeless

    was force-fed a rotton egg. Usually she just sounds like it.

    "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

    by Gorette on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:35:55 AM PDT

  •  He just means (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shoeless, yargityblarg

    ...it doesn't work that way any more.  The damned thing's busted.  

    America, we can do better than this...

    by Randomfactor on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:40:32 AM PDT

    •  neither party has any interest in making (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Australian2, JVolvo

      the government work.

      For Obama, everything is a bargaining chip that can be bartered away for the sake of the Grand Bargain. The Republicans just want to break stuff and burn it all down.

      The Republicans continue to provoke crises, and Obama sits on his hands and refuses to do anything to stop them, because he wants them to help him take an axe to the New Deal.

      The Congress is locked into an austerity spiral that will continue either until Obama gets his cuts to SS/Medicare or until the Republicans get huge cuts to other things. Either way, we're going to get a huge economic crisis as we did five years ago.

      This is Weimar-style dysfunction. If people realized how this is going to end, they'd be in the streets right now. When the axe finally falls, they will be.

      "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

      by limpidglass on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:47:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  You have to admit (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shoeless, RichM, rebel ga

    that this tactic of "lie in the face of fact, and expect your base to believe it" has been remarkably effective as a tactic. The problem is that this tactic seems to have a shelf life, and it's heading for its expiry date.

    Plus, Boehner is unusually inept at employing said tactic.

    "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

    by raptavio on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:42:03 AM PDT

  •  He knows Obama will blink (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Joe Bacon, Rikon Snow

    And he most likely will.  Hey I like the guy, but when hasn't he caved?  

    Democrats are at a disadvantage precisely because they care about the economy and reality and actual people.

    Obama will not let a shutdown occur; the GOP will.

    Ergo ... The O-Man will fold faster than Superman on laundry day.  I hope I am wrong.

  •  From an overview perspective, (5+ / 0-)

    what we really have is a governmental coup. Let's say the House closes down the gov't over the senate's refusal to defund Obamacare.

    And let's say they succeed. What's the next step? Next time, do they threaten to shut down unless we slash Social Security?  And if that works, next time do they threaten to shut the gov't over eliminating Medicare?

    Giving into the Rebuplicans is like feeding your dog at the table and expecting him to go away. No, he just begs the harder, because the strategy worked.

    If the Senate or the President gives in, what that does is say that the House has veto power over every decision and every law.

    •  legislation by terrorist threat (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NoMoJoe, JVolvo, bryduck

      as I said in another comment, this is Weimar-style dysfunction. When a political party threatens to blow up the world economy to get its way, a key line has been crossed.

      This is not how the governing process works in a healthy democracy. We aren't a healthy democracy, and we haven't been since the Supreme Court installed George W. Bush into the presidency even though he wasn't duly elected.

      Since then the coup has continued, sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly, but always it has continued steadily forward. Obama has done nothing to roll it back and now he is abetting the instigators of the coup by refusing to use his presidential powers to stop them.

      Surely we'll reach the endgame within the next five or six years, and a true dictatorship will be installed in America. There really isn't much left for them to do.

      "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

      by limpidglass on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:55:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What is a "true dictatorship?" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Australian2

        I think the U.S. will continue to be a "representative democracy" for centuries to come; in exactly the same way that the U.K. has continued to be a "monarchy". We have a "Senate" and a "House" and a "Supreme Court" in the same way that they have a "Queen". I don't see that changing.

        We're already for all practical purposes governed by and for the shareholders of multinational corporations; at least 90%. A literal coup; a rewrite of the Constitution, all of that would get people's attention- not just here but worldwide- causing much unrest for little real gain.

        Continuing the Punch & Judy show in Washington D.C. in perpetuity is a small price for the real PTB to pay for our complaceny.

      •  One party in our two party system (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        hayden

        is no longer committed to a democratic form of government. They serve only the oligarchic 1%.  These economic terrorists need to be turned out of office in 2014.  We here at Dkos  need to focus on 2014.

        We can have democracy in this country, or we can have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. Louis Brandeis

        by Ohkwai on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 09:56:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Some observations (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW

    - It looks like the shutdown gambit over Obamacare is ebbing after Ted Cruz's spectacular failure in the Senate.

    - Now Boehner is going after the debt limit.  He has no leverage.  The clock is ticking. The President's position has been clear and has the complete backing of the Congressional Democrats and much of the business community. Boehner also has not really made a clear argument as to why he needs to resort to an extreme measure.  He doesn't have an electoral mandate to cut spending or change the government's priorities and he hasn't prepped his caucus to take the political hit to achieve a larger goal.  To me, this sounds like a desperate cry for relevance.  Ultimately, I believe there are enough votes in the House to pass a budget that the WH, Senate Democrats and some Senate Republicans could reach agreement on.  Boehner is the only person who stands in the way.  That's a lot of pressure for 1 person to absorb, and I don't think he lasts long.

    - After we clear the debt limit issue, then the real negotiations on a long-term budget for a mini-grand bargain will take place.  I think there is a chance for a broad agreement that increases domestic spending, eliminates the sequester, provides some tax reform and entitlement reform.  It would end the budget wars for the remainder of Obama's term and lock in the structural changes he has made.
     

    Global Shakedown - Alternative rock with something to say. Check out their latest release, "A Time to Recognize": Available on iTunes, Amazon, Google Play, Spotify and other major online music sites. Visit http://www.globalshakedown.com.

    by khyber900 on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:50:27 AM PDT

  •  When Boner sends over his list of demands for (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    msdrown

    negotiation Obama should leave on a three week golf vacation in Hawaii.

  •  Lie Much GOP? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JVolvo

    How to Detect Lies - Body Language, Reactions, Speech Patterns

    Note to the gop,
    No man's error becomes his own law; nor obliges him to persist in it. Thomas Hobbs

    Great diary Joan. Rec'd and tipped.

    Brought To You By That Crazed Sociologist/Media Fanatic rebel ga Be The Change You Want To See In The World! Gandhi

    by rebel ga on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:57:58 AM PDT

  •  i could be wrong, but i suspect that the real (0+ / 0-)

    money players in the GOP do NOT want to send the republican party down the shitter permanently, which is exactly where they're headed with this ted cruz-default crap

    i think they want to remain a viable alternative in national politics and that means tacking back to the middle...it's a godawful messy process, but if you are wall street, do you want chris christie or ted cruz?

    Sarah Palin is a disgusting racist pig.

    by memofromturner on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:59:21 AM PDT

  •  Kelly Ayotte is delusional. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skillet, JVolvo, Australian2

    She just stated, with no sense of irony, that Republicans are LEADING - leading on creating good jobs and leading on healthcare.  WTF?!  The woman needs to be committed - or called a liar to her face.

    "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

    by SueDe on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 08:59:35 AM PDT

  •  why we cant have nice things (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skillet, forgore, JVolvo, Australian2

    Manchin starts the retreat

    "Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV) said Thursday that he would support a one-year delay of Obamacare's individual mandate as part of a short-term government spending bill.
    "
  •  The GOP says government doesn't work. Period. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    forgore, Ohkwai, Odysseus, JVolvo

    This is part of their plan to prove this is true.

    "The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

    by Lily O Lady on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 09:11:46 AM PDT

  •  Who's "driving the clown car?" - (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JVolvo

    It was a Teabagger demand that the steering wheel be removed.

    Our government is not yet small enough to drown in a bathtub. That doesn't mean it can't be waterboarded.

    by furrfu on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 09:14:10 AM PDT

  •  John Boehner needs ... (0+ / 0-)

    to stop his self-flagulating love affair with the Tea Party. It's time to man up and get himself a new rag to fart in.


    My life is in total anarchy. I have no respect for my own authoritarianism. - UID 16382

    by glb3 on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 09:14:54 AM PDT

  •  Holding the debt ceiling hostage (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Odysseus

    ...is like threatening to stop payment on a check you've already written. It's a cowardly way to try and renegotiate matters you've already agreed to. Pretty much defines the pathetic and desperate GOP position in the House.

    My operating theory is that all that spray tanner is altering Mr. Boehner's brain chemistry.

  •  I want Obama (0+ / 0-)

    ...to start (metaphorically) shooting the GOP hostages, starting with a veto on the Keystone pipeline.  Then a hostage a day until they pass a clean funding authorization and a debt-ceiling raise.  

    Then Net Neutrality.  And keep going until they comply.  

    Doesn't he have the authority to fire air-traffic controllers?  Say, at airports the GOP likes?  I seem to recall some president doing something like that, but it's been three decades or so since then...

    America, we can do better than this...

    by Randomfactor on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 10:02:46 AM PDT

  •  He's got an angry woman head (0+ / 0-)

    Growing out of his side.

  •  Biff Tannen here (0+ / 0-)

    [Knocking Boner on the head with a cane]
     Hello? Hello? Anybody home? Huh? Think, McFly! Think!

    Oh my god, it's full of cheese! - 2001 first draft

    by sizzzzlerz on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 10:26:34 AM PDT

  •  It doesn't work that way (0+ / 0-)

    Boehner is absolutley right.  Unless you believe, as I do, that he debt ceiling is not legally binding anymore because other laws have been passed in the century since we started the ceiling that supercede it, then the law of the land gives just the House by itself veto power over raising ther debt limit.  Period.  Those are the rules.  We do need to renegotiate every bit of govt spending every time we hit the debt limit.  Every element of the trifecta has to be satisfied, or it can force default, which, yes, is catastrophic, but that just means that the other two elements of the trifecta really, really are obligated to negotiate a compromise a settlement acceptable to the holdout element of the trifecta.

    Is this a crazy way to run a railroad?  You betcha.  But those are the rules we left in place last time we had the trifecta, and therefore the power to change these crazy rules.  Well, maybe you can make this excuse for our side, that 42 prior times the debt approached the limit, no element of the trifecta thought that our debt level was such a crisis, or that there were other national priorities out there so pressing, that it made sense to threaten default to address that emergency.  But, you know what, the rules as written leave the determination of what constitutes such a national emergency to any one of the three elements of the legislative authority.  The House gets to exercise that discretion.  Period.

    It's up to us to make the case that the House is abusing its discretion.  That case is not at all advanced by the false claim that they have no right to do what they're doing.  And making that false claim induces a complacent attitude that we don't have to make the case that there is no debt emergency, we just have to throw a tantrum about how mean and ugly the House is for exercising its prerogatives.

    The other reason to get very clear on the fact that -- with the rules as currently written -- yes, we do too have to negotiate with the House over every spending item whenever we hit the debt ceiling; is that we have to get the trifecta back and throw out those insane, life-of-the-nation-threatening, rules.  We don't get to do that unless we make the case that these rules are nuts, dangerously nuts.

    We've kept the debt ceiling, despite its relic, vestigial, status, because we're too timid to not throw the deficit scolds a bone.  The ceiling isn't any part of the way we control revenue and spending anymore, but it gives the deficit scolds a fine bully pulpit to pound every time the limit approaches, which shuts them back up in their irrelevance for a while.  It was harmless enough theater while everyone treated it as just harmless theater, but it always held the danger that if any of the players decided to defect from sense and reason, it was available for use in furthering blackmail.  But now we've broken through that fourth wall, and the ceiling will never again be harmless theater.  It needs to be gotten rid of, not increased to be there available for hostage-taking next time into the indefinite future.  Of course the other side will never agree to end the ceiling, so we have to make an issue out of it now, and kill it ourselves when the voters give us back the trifecta.  If we don't make it an issue now, we' won't kill it after we get the trifecta back, because it won't be an immediate threat at that point.

    The states must be abolished.

    by gtomkins on Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 11:04:08 AM PDT

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