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 NORFOLK, Va. (Nov. 7, 2008) Sailors wear the Navy working uniform (NWU) at Naval Air Station Oceana.
While Congress passed and President Obama signed a law ensuring that uniformed troops and some civilian military employees would continue to be paid through the Republican shutdown, it's possible that troops will still lose out:
Chief of Naval Personnel Vice Adm. Bill Moran detailed what he believes are the Navy’s pay and benefits shortfalls in a message on Tuesday: sailors cannot get imminent danger pay, hardship duty pay or hazard duty incentive pay. They can’t sign bonus agreements, get anniversary payments or receive tuition assistance for classes starting Tuesday or later.

The Navy is also scaling back permanent changes of station that allow sailors to move from one base to another and has suspended promotion boards, meaning that sailors and officers can’t advance in their careers. Moran appealed to sailors and furloughed Navy civilians to tough it out.

These are just preliminary assessments of how the Navy will be affected, and may be scaled back.

Other government workers, including 400,000 civilian military employees who face furloughs, are presumably going "hey, getting base pay without possibility of promotion would be just fine with me ... " considering they are getting nothing for as long as Republicans continue holding the entire government hostage to their absurd, unpopular demands.

Originally posted to Laura Clawson on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 10:05 AM PDT.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  We are only receiving base pay, BAS and BAH. (0+ / 0-)

    Veterans are not getting pensions.  Military commissaries are shutting down.  No new orders are getting cut except for those getting out of initial training.

    "There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. - James Morrow

    by kirrix on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 03:13:00 PM PDT

    •  So (0+ / 0-)

      What is BAS and BAH?  My Son is SF Medic 1st Group Lewis/McChord, I"m ex-AF Vietnam, but I can't keep up with new acronyms....This is not a military website, you know....

      Without geometry, life is pointless. And blues harmonica players suck.

      by blindcynic on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 05:23:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  They're additional pay that service-members may (4+ / 0-)

        receive.  Basic Allowance for Subsistence and Basic Allowance for Housing.  Part of the benefits of service is guaranteed housing and meals.  If you don't live in the barracks, you receive BAH.  BAS is essentially the same thing but for food.

        "There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. - James Morrow

        by kirrix on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 06:19:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  My husband is in the middle of (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kurious

      Getting his orders sorted out. I suppose that is over until further notice.  His desk is cleaned out, but plenty of work to do here because so many civilian employees are furloughed.  Who knows when the direction of our lives will be sorted out now?  At least we are busy.

    •  I had no idea this would affect (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kurious

      BAH.  I didn't even check

    •  UPDATE: According to a new message that came out (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Militarytracy

      today, we are receiving all special pays, allowances and bonuses assuming there is sufficient money in the Treasury.  That's what they told us at muster this morning.

      "There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. - James Morrow

      by kirrix on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 06:33:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The Rs don't care (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drmah, Militarytracy, annieli

    nosotros no somos estúpidos

    by a2nite on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 05:32:32 PM PDT

  •  Last Night, on MSNBC (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Militarytracy, tofumagoo

    I saw a presser with Steny Hoyer, et al, including the American Federation of Government Employees. While there was not a definitive statement made, the overall impression was that NO Governmental Employee would agree to return to work, no matter who it was, unless they all did.

    I have to hope they will do precisely this. Your article is an expcellent example of why they should.

    Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
    Economic
    Left/Right: -7.75
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

    by Bud Fields on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 05:34:12 PM PDT

  •  Bring them all the F home. eom (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drmah

    “Never argue with someone whose livelihood depends on not being convinced.” ~ H.L. MENCKEN

    by shigeru on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 05:38:24 PM PDT

  •  Probably an unpopular opinion (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Militarytracy, tofumagoo

    But I don't think the troops, (or Congress) should be getting paid at all. Allowing this sort of thing just takes the ugliness out of the shutdown's public face. Most people can look the other way and if the troops are getting paid, then they can believe that maybe things aren't THAT bad after all. It's like those absurd "let's-please-our-retired-white-base" votes the Republicans have been taking in the House to open parks and so forth, isn't it? If they take away the public face of the pain, it makes it that much easier to ignore the private people who are languishing, (and yes, soon to be dying), because of this abominable temper tantrum. I'm a veteran but if everybody doesn't get paid then nobody should get paid.

    "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for a real Republican every time." Harry Truman

    by MargaretPOA on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 05:38:36 PM PDT

    •  I could go with that (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tofumagoo

      It wouldn't be fun, but it would be affective

    •  Well, guess they figured it's a bad idea (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kurious, tofumagoo

      to force the people with all the weapons and combat training to work without pay for very long.

    •  Of all the gov't employees that can't afford to (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kirrix, Militarytracy

      lose a paycheck, it would be our enlisted troops. Maybe they could have allowed officers and senior enlisted to go without pay - most of us have savings accounts that could see us through. But to allow our junior enlisted to go without is just plain cruel. They've done it once before and it from what I heard it was horrific. Congress knows they couldn't survive that kind of backlash. So while I get where you're coming from, I don't think I could support not paying our youngest troops, not for any reason at all.

      Pain is being felt in military circles as is... just left a comment above about friends that won't get to see their husband/dad this week because his morale leave was cancelled. Trust me, military families are calling their Representatives. Not all of them understand what this is about or who exactly to blame but they're making calls.

      •  I have such a hard time with the (0+ / 0-)

        Military that doesn't get it about ACA and how important it is.  Most of our children will not become military, they will be at the mercy of a broken healthcare system if we don't fix this NOW.

        And before ACA, Tricare denied Josh all the time.  The ACA protect current children on Tricare, will soon protect everyone under the patients rights. It was miserable for the disabled on Tricare before healthcare reform started.  The constant denials have stopped now, at least I can catch my breath.

         But if your active duty family child has asthma while you are in the military, when they reach maturity they are now a pre-existing condition.  I am eternally tired of the soldiers and families in uniform not being able to see the future for their children written clearly on the wall.  Doesn't matter if we are covered in my mind if they aren't when they must run their own show.  What are we working to protect if our children's future is a mine field inside the wall the military stands on?

    •  what part of (0+ / 0-)

      government shutdown do they not understand.

      By paying some military people some money, they are preparing for a plan to not pay most of the government any back pay.  They can probably finagle housing and substance allowances because patrotism means we let children starve to pay out military.

      Here is my question.  Do you think the people who provide cleaning and food services for our troops are any less critical than the military themselves.  Do you think an enlisted person is any less replaceable than a janitor?Do you think these service workers can afford to feed their families if they are nor paid for a week, or are going to have a place to live if they do not get back pay?

      In my work the support staff is underpaid and treated like crap, while those barely more important and much less replaceable are treated very well. It is said that so many of our legislators are so discourteous that this treatment has been codified into law.

  •  Yet the military tends to vote Republican, or at (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli, Militarytracy

    least they did up until this Tuesday.

    •  good Germans, they /nt (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      drmah

      Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013

      by annieli on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 05:45:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The military civilian employees tend to (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      drmah

      Vote Republican too.  They have been harmed by the previous furlough but then got bailed out there for a bit, now almost all of them are furloughed every day and not just one day a week.

       The shutdown is causing many of them a ton of stress.  Enlisted tend to vote more liberal, and I don't know if anything would ever convince a majority of officers to not vote Republican, but you would think the military civilians would never vote Republican again a day in their life after this.

    •  Actually it was my experience (4+ / 0-)

      That the enlisted ranks at least represented a pretty accurate cross section of society. Working class society anyway. The ones who paid attention tended to vote Democratic, though I can't answer about the officer corps.

      "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for a real Republican every time." Harry Truman

      by MargaretPOA on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 06:34:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Although numbers show leaning Republican, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kirrix, Militarytracy

      there is a lot of debate about those numbers. And, when you look at Time's release of the 2012 numbers for Obama, the military is not as cut and dried Republican as many think.

      http://nation.time.com/...

      Among my friends with military ties, many will claim to be Republican but voted Democrat in the last Presidential election. They're moderate, not conservative, and the current Republican party doesn't speak for them. Many of them would be folks who would vote third party if given a good candidate.

  •  Laura: Question... (0+ / 0-)

    Why is it a "may" instead of a given reality? Are they currently covered and may not be? Or is it currently covered and could possibly be withdrawn? I'm really wondering.

    Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
    Economic
    Left/Right: -7.75
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

    by Bud Fields on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 05:45:34 PM PDT

  •  is Academi losing money during the shutdown /nt (0+ / 0-)

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013

    by annieli on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 05:48:43 PM PDT

    •  Who Do You Mean? n/t (0+ / 0-)

      Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
      Economic
      Left/Right: -7.75
      Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

      by Bud Fields on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 05:51:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Academi previously known as Xe Services LLC, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bud Fields
        ... Blackwater USA and Blackwater Worldwide—is a private military company founded in 1997 by Erik Prince and Al Clark. Academi is currently the largest of the U.S. State Department's three private security contractors.

        Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013

        by annieli on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 05:55:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Don't forget the Merchant Marines (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Square Knot, kurious, tofumagoo

    The school in Kings Point, NY, is closed during the shutdown, because it falls under the Dept. of Transportation, not the DOD. Those students have 4 academic years crammed into 3, and their 4th year is at sea. They don't get the long breaks regular college kids do, so any upset in the academic schedule really is monumental.

    They will probably be told to go home on Friday, which, for many students, means their parents have to shell out for an extra plane trip that may not be in the budget, and then another, when it re-opens. Many have already booked flights for the November break, which may have to be changed or cancelled, at their expense.

    My friend's son attends school there, and because she lives relatively close by (in NJ), she may end up hosting students who cannot get home right away.

    And the shame of it is...I'd bet that most in Congress have no idea the school does not fall under DOD or that it's even closed. She called her congressman...he didn't know.

  •  Friend says the Army has suspended (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kurious, angelajean

    Safety investigations too now.  Investigators were pulled off a safety investigation at Fort Bragg.

  •  If the government shutdown means the US (0+ / 0-)

    is going to fly that plane again....... we're screwed.

    Especially with those uniforms.

    Be of good comfort, Master Ridley, and play the man; we shall this day light such a candle by God's grace in England as shall never be put out.

    by Bollox Ref on Wed Oct 02, 2013 at 06:03:56 PM PDT

  •  Shutdown also endangers soldiers' safety... (4+ / 0-)

    Combat operations need intelligence to "see":  

    ...soldiers in Afghanistan depend on real-time intelligence from civilian agencies...

    The CIA, however, is being treated like every other civilian agency - some of its staff will be allowed to work, but many more will not, taking away the backstopping that troops depend on...

    Among the several other ways the shutdown hurts the troops (and their families).

    ..And the Pentagon has made it clear that nobody goes anywhere during a shutdown. The unit that was supposed to replace hers? They're not training. Will she be home for Christmas? She doesn't know. The Army doesn't know. Congress can't tell her. Is this what we meant by "serve your country?"

    ...Without civilians to process travel orders, soldiers can't get home to their families, or deploy to their units. Without civilians to drive trucks, or load and unload boats and trains, equipment can't move, and units can't train and deploy - which means units in combat must keep sitting where they are....

    Etc, etc.
  •  Training, inspections... (4+ / 0-)

    A number of training courses are being cancelled and students are being sent home.  These are the type of courses military personnel need in order to learn how to do their jobs, or advance to higher positions.  The Naval Postgraduate School is closed, and Tuition Assistance (money to help military obtain a degree in their off-duty time - often a degree that helps them do their jobs better) is suspended.

    Inspections of various types (that ensure things are being done properly, legally, safely) are being cancelled.  Ship/aircraft/vehicle/equipment maintenance is being delayed or cancelled in many cases.

    A lot of travel is being cancelled and people are being sent home.  Some ID offices are closed.  There are also glitches in getting money moving for "exempt" activities (=supporting public health and safety), because so many of the contracting personnel are civilians.

    Of course there is a much bigger impact on the civilians who are furloughed indefinitely without pay.  But I hope this doesn't turn into pitched battles between the various factions.  Everyone's in it together.

  •  Family Morale Leave is being revoked as well. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Militarytracy

    It's standard procedure for those on one year remote assignments to come home about half way through... one of my friends just announced on facebook that her husband won't be coming home this week as planned. No idea when he might get to come home either. Three kids have been hoping to see their father and now they don't even know if that will happen any time soon. I hate when gov't decisions mess with kids this way and we know that military kids aren't the only ones suffering.

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