Skip to main content

Benjamin Netenyahu has  been quite stern on demanding accountability and inspection on Iranian nuclear facilities, but strangely enough has not volunteered to open Israeli facilities to reassure the world that Israel does not have bombs. Since Israel almost undoubtedly does, and has never denied this, it seems somewhat odd that nobody has asked whether Israel is willing to undergo the same inspections.

Perhaps I have missed the asking of this question, and his answer - does anybody remember whether this has been raised? I would be very interested in knowing his response.

Poll

Do you think Israel should declare their nuclear stockpile (or lack thereof) in order to be taken seriously in anti-proliferation discussions?

24%12 votes
75%37 votes
0%0 votes

| 49 votes | Vote | Results

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  So here is the thing. . . (0+ / 0-)

    Israel has not and will not threaten to wipe a country off the  face of the earth, unlike Iran.

    •  Nor has Iran (9+ / 0-)

      unless you believe the fake translation of the former president's speech.

      We will work, we will play, we will laugh, we will live. We will not waste one moment, nor sacrifice one bit of our freedom, because of fear.

      by Lib Dem FoP on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 12:48:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Someday the United States too (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sandino, truong son traveler

        will "disappear from the pages of history," as Ahmadinejad said about Iran.

        Which, paraphrased, is precisely what Thom Hartmann every time he tries to sell us gold bullion from ITM Trading.

        Which means . . .

        Duck!  Thom Hartmann's got a nuke, and he's aiming it at DC!!!!!!

        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

        by corvo on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 01:03:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  oops, as A. said about Israel of course n/t (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          truong son traveler

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 01:04:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  So you think (0+ / 0-)

        Statements explicitly stating they wan to wipe israel from the face of the earth are not real threats. Failure to recognize Israel as a State are mre trivialities? Israel  recognizes Iran as a sovereign state  and has never  stated its goal is to wipe it off the face of the earth!

        •  Some questions. (4+ / 0-)

          Can you point to a statement made by an Iranian in a position of authority saying that Iran intends to wipe Israel from the face of the earth?

          Who is Israel's ambassador to Iran, and whose government does Israel regard as the legitimate Iranian government?

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 01:19:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Israel refuses to recognize the Palestinians (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          corvo

          Isn't the platform of the Israeli right to expel Palestinians from Israel, defined by them as all of the former British Mandate territories?  

          And wasn't the British Mandate supposed to be divided into a Palestinian state and a Jewish state by the UN resolution that that created Israel?

          •  Not quite (0+ / 0-)

            Jerusalem was to be an international zone separate from the two other entities.

            What happened in fact (not Israeli propaganda) is that Israeli troops entered Jerusalem (so technically their claim not to have invaded another country is correct) which in turn prompted the Palestinian parliament to pass an Act of Union between Palestine and Jordan.

            We will work, we will play, we will laugh, we will live. We will not waste one moment, nor sacrifice one bit of our freedom, because of fear.

            by Lib Dem FoP on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 01:29:06 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Do you have the transcript? (0+ / 0-)

        I have seen the allegation that the speech was mistranslated, but never with the text in Farsi and the two alternative translations. I would like to see commentary by someone who knows the language.  

        •  See discussion (3+ / 0-)
          The New York Times goes on: "The second translation issue concerns the word 'map'. Khomeini's words were abstract: 'Sahneh roozgar.' Sahneh means scene or stage, and roozgar means time. The phrase was widely interpreted as 'map', and for years, no one objected. In October, when Mr Ahmadinejad quoted Khomeini, he actually misquoted him, saying not 'Sahneh roozgar' but 'Safheh roozgar', meaning pages of time or history. No one noticed the change, and news agencies used the word 'map' again."

          This, in my view, is the crucial point and I'm glad the NYT accepts that the word "map" was not used by Ahmadinejad. (By the way, the Wikipedia entry on the controversy gets the NYT wrong, claiming falsely that Ethan Bronner "concluded that Ahmadinejad had in fact said that Israel was to be wiped off the map".)

          http://www.theguardian.com/...

          We will work, we will play, we will laugh, we will live. We will not waste one moment, nor sacrifice one bit of our freedom, because of fear.

          by Lib Dem FoP on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 01:21:17 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  It has been known as a mistranslation since 2007. (6+ / 0-)

          Juan Cole has repeatedly pointed this out:

          For instance in June 2007

          As most of my readers know, Ahmadinejad did not use that phrase in Persian. He quoted an old saying of Ayatollah Khomeini calling for ‘this occupation regime over Jerusalem” to “vanish from the page of time.’ Calling for a regime to vanish is not the same as calling for people to be killed. Ahmadinejad has not to my knowledge called for anyone to be killed.
          ....
          I renew my call to readers to write protest letters to newspapers and other media every time they hear it alleged that Ahmadinejad (or “Iran”!) has threatened to “wipe Israel off the map.” There is no such idiom in Persian and it is not what he said, and the mistranslation gives entirely the wrong impression. Wars can start over bad translations.
          And again in Sept 2008
          It is legitimate to decry his [Ahmadinejad's] positions, and I decry a lot of them. It is not legitimate to misrepresent what he has said.
          ...
          By the way, Nazila Fathi at the NYT again today attributed to Ahmadinejad the phrase “wipe Israel off the face of the map.” He didn’t say it, and spoke of the regime. He quoted Khomeini saying, “This occupation regime over Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time.” (Een rezhim-e eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az safhih-i ruzgar mahv shavad; the verb construction mahv shodan is intransitive). (Khomeini had said ‘vanish from the arena of time.’) He has explained that he meant that the Zionist regime would collapse just as the Soviet one did. He didn’t threaten to wipe anything off anything.

          Fathi and her editors know all this.

          Fathi is either a liar or was forced into this falsification by an editor who is a liar.

          "Anyone can support me when they think I'm right. What I want is someone that will support me when I am wrong." Sir John A. MacDonald

          by Johnny Nucleo on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 02:22:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Iran hasn't done so, (5+ / 0-)

      and if Israel has not and will not make such a threat itself, then it obviously doesn't need nukes.

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 12:49:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Simply having nuclear weapons is a threat to (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo

      being able to make part or all of another country uninhabitable with the concomitant death of many of its citizens and destruction of large amounts of its infrastructure. Whether or not  threats are stated makes no difference.

      Tea Baggers Unite and follow that lemming.

      by OHdog on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 12:52:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  ORLY? (6+ / 0-)

       photo Israel_stealing_palestine.jpg

      If reality clashes with your belief, then the problem clearly is reality.--God

      by Flyswatterbanjo on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 12:59:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

        Why that map is a lie. (Note: I'm not endorsing the Israel-is-blameless position of the link, but setting that aside, it conclusively debunks the above map.)

        •  True, the map is, in a sense, a lie, (5+ / 0-)

          because with the possible exception of Gaza, there's no Palestinian land at all.  The WB is governed by an illegitimate clique that serves at Israel's leisure, and Israel is free to violate the "sovereignty" of any and all WB territories at will.

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 01:44:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  oh, and of course, if it were Palestinian land, (0+ / 0-)

          then Israel couldn't confiscate from it at will.

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 04:50:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  The ambiguous wipe (0+ / 0-)

      Actually, the quotation I usually hear is that Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map, not off the face of the earth.  In other words, the expression “off the map” suggests that their point is that Israel is an illegitimate state that should be replaced by the state of Palestine, as opposed to the expression “off the face of the earth,” which suggests that they want to kill all the Jews who live there.

      The “off the face of the earth” substitute for “off the map” is deliberately employed by some to justify attacking Iran.

    •  Israel has admitted that's a lie, but Netanyahu is (5+ / 0-)

      happy to let you continue to propagate it long after Israel has washed its hands of it.

      "Israeli Minister Agrees Ahmadinejad Never Said Israel ‘Must Be Wiped Off the Map’"

      Mr. Meridor said that Mr. Ahmadinejad and Iran’s ruling cleric, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, had said repeatedly “that Israel is an unnatural creature, it will not survive. They didn’t say, ‘We’ll wipe it out,’ you’re right, but, ‘It will not survive.’ ”

      And given the number of sensible Jews leaving Israel, and the number of psychos replacing them, it probably will not survive.  The article continues:

      "Although there is general agreement now among translators and scholars that Mr. Ahmadinejad did not commit his country to the project of destroying the state of Israel in that 2005 speech, the phrase that was wrongly attributed to him then remains so firmly rooted in the popular imagination that it is frequently used as evidence of Iran’s genocidal intentions."

      http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/...

      But keep up the Good Work, huh?

      Their real God is money-- Jesus just drives the armored car, and his hat is made in China. © 2009 All Rights Reserved

      by oblomov on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 01:47:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Israel announces it is ready to go it alone (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo, WattleBreakfast

    and attack Iran itself if no one else will:
    http://www.rawstory.com/...

    Problem is how Israel proposes to take out Iran's military and nuclear facilities by conventional air strikes.  Their munitions will be ineffective against hardened Iranian targets and their planes don't have permission to overfly the Muslim countries they would have to and are not likely to receive such permission.  This is even if they are able to refuel in the air.

    This leaves one final unthinkable option: the Israelis could launch an attack from its tiny submarine force from the Straits of Hormuz.  The only problem is that any munitions which are used would have to pack a punch, such as nuclear warheads.

    Right now it appears Israel is the main impediment to peace in the region      

    •  Not sure Israel needs permission to overfly (0+ / 0-)

      Syria and Iraq -- the latter still has the USA as its air force.  Other countries may refuse formally but offer covert approval (Saudi Arabia immediately comes to mind); yet others, like Jordan, wouldn't dare respond with more than a meek protest.

      Getting overfly permission is the least of Israel's worries.

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 01:11:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I cannot imagine Assad giving permission (0+ / 0-)

        nor can I imagine Iraq doing so either, given the debt of gratitude its Shia' majority owes to Tehran.  Should either country be overflown, I suspect they would immediately warn Tehran of the intrusion

        Overfly permission is the fig leaf Israel needs in order to reach Iranian territory

        •  Assad has no control over the part of Syria (0+ / 0-)

          Israel would overfly; and do you really think Assad wants to risk another Israeli attack himself?

          Sounds to me like the kid gloves -- and the fig leaves -- are off.

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 01:20:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  since there has been no partition of the country (0+ / 0-)

            and the rebels have been unable to even form a coherent government in exile, Assad is the only one who can give permission, as the only recognized head of state for Syria.
            As far as inviting another Israeli attack, that could be the best thing that could happen to him as it would undercut the rebels and at the same time giving his people an external enemy they can rally against.  The rebels must be praying every night the Israelis don't weigh into the conflict

            •  I doubt we were asking Assad's permission (0+ / 0-)

              to lob several days' worth of Tomahawk missiles at him.  Sorry, nobody in Washington or Jerusalem is interested in Assad's permission for anything.

              You have a point with your second paragraph, but then one really has to start asking whether the West's real interest is to topple Assad, or to profit from permanent war.  The weapons have to come from somewhere, after all.  Anyway, the rebels are already doing an excellent job of warring against each other as well as against Assad, so it's difficult to see how an Israeli flyover of Syria on the way to Iran would unite Syrians in any configuration.

              Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

              by corvo on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 04:19:45 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Since you asked... (0+ / 0-)

    the reason Israel is not asked to accept inspections while Iran is, is that Iran is a signatory to the nuclear nonproliferation treaty (NPT) while Israel is not.

    So by ratifying the NPT, Iran voluntarily gave up the right to possess nuclear weapons, and agreed to international inspections to verify its compliance, in exchange for international assistance with peaceful nuclear energy. That makes it illegal for Iran to conduct secret nuclear research outside of the verification regime, as it was caught doing a decade ago. Because it was caught cheating, the UN Security Council demanded it come back into compliance and take additional steps to prove it was not pursuing nuclear weapons. It has so far failed to comply, though the recent Iranian diplomatic initiative is promising.

    Israel never signed the NPT. So it's completely legal for Israel to possess nuclear weapons. And Israel has no obligation to allow inspections. But it also is not entitled to IAEA technical assistance with nuclear energy.

    •  asdf (4+ / 0-)
      Israel never signed the NPT. So it's completely legal for Israel to possess nuclear weapons.
      Just as it's completely legal for us to let our war criminals go free; after all, we don't accept the jurisdiction of international courts.

      So sure, it's legal.  It can still, however, be immoral.

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 01:47:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  asdf (0+ / 0-)
        Just as it's completely legal for us to let our war criminals go free; after all, we don't accept the jurisdiction of international courts.
        No, that doesn't follow. The US is still subject to international humanitarian law and international human rights law, whether or not it accepts ICC jurisdiction.

        You're right that law and morality are not the same thing.

        •  No, we're not subject to it. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          truong son traveler

          The law exists, but we're not subject to it.  That's what not accepting jurisdiction is all about.

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 04:20:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  depends what you mean by "subject to" (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JNEREBEL

            International law on war crimes is, at least largely, customary international law.  That means it's binding on all states regardless of whether they've agreed to it in a formal treaty. Countries that are not state parties to the ICC are still subject to customary international humanitarian law, in the sense of being legally required to follow it. So it is illegal for Americans to commit war crimes whether or not we are subject to ICC jurisdiction.

            If you define being subject to IHL as accepting ICC jurisdiction then it's true -- but also a tautology -- to say that the US is not. But we are legally required to comply with IHL. So we're "subject to" it in that sense.

    •  Israel's in great company (as usual) (5+ / 0-)

      with the only four other non-signatories: India, Pakistan, North Korea and South Sudan. Versus 190 signatories.

      In any case, the question is, why doesn't the world demand that Israel sign the NPT?

      If reality clashes with your belief, then the problem clearly is reality.--God

      by Flyswatterbanjo on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 02:25:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Since you brought it up (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo

      Israeli is not a signatory to the NNP nor has it ratified the Chemical Weapons Treaty. Syria is still not a signatory to the second but is allowing inspectors in.

      Israeli is also not a signatory to the second and third additional Protocols to the Geneva Conventions which means that when its soldiers are captured by "non state parties", in theory they have no protections under the Conventions.

      We will work, we will play, we will laugh, we will live. We will not waste one moment, nor sacrifice one bit of our freedom, because of fear.

      by Lib Dem FoP on Tue Oct 01, 2013 at 02:29:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, no, actually... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JNEREBEL

        Syria has signed the Chemical Weapons Convention, which bans possession of CW. And it was already a party to the 1925 Geneva Protocol banning the use of chemical weapons. And, of course, the difference between Israel and Syria on chemical weapons is that Syria has used them (and its not confirmed whether Israel has any). Syria isn't accepting inspectors out of altruism: it is being forced to do so as a response to its use of CW against its own people. So its not like Syria is somehow more virtuous than Israel regarding CW.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site