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Don't worry about the latest new cycle or who is being blamed more for the shut down, we have already won a massive victory and everyday this shutdown goes on we win more.  I say this with the full understanding that people are suffering in the short term because of this shutdown and that includes myself.

Why did Bill Clinton coast to victory in 1996 after the government shutdowns of 1995 and 1996.  Hint, it had nothing to do with Bill Clinton or Newt Gingrich or who won the news cycles of the day.  It had to do with the role of government in peoples life.  The bottom line is when we fight over funding the government we win, when we fight over the debt ceiling we lose.  That's why Obama has been saying from the beginning that he won't negotiate on the debt ceiling.  

Everyday that the shut down goes on people understand how important the role of government is in people's life.  A shutdown is the only time when people really appreciate how important government is.  That's why intelligent republicans didn't want to have this fight.  They wanted to have a fight over the debt ceiling and how important cutting government spending was. If the intelligent republicans had their way they would have passed a clean CR, savaged (rightfully) the glitches in the online healthcare exchanges and by virtue the incompetence of government and prepared for a battle on the debt ceiling.  But thanks to Ted Cruz and the tea party, we won't have that debate.  Instead we will have a debate over who feels the pain of a shut down more.  Let the Republican party wear doctors gowns and celebrate the importance of the NIH.  Let them hail the Wick program when they vote on it tomorrow.  All they're doing is pointing out the virtues of government.  The tea party is so bankrupt of ideas, so hateful of all things Obama, so stupid and so good at propaganda that they are actually out messaging us on the virtues of government.   I say let them keep going and bring up each government program piece by piece and how important it is in the lives of people.  

At the end of the day they will have made the case for government.  How are they then going to pivot in two weeks into cutting government spending when the debt ceiling comes up, they can't, that's why Boehner has already caved on the debt ceiling.  All the Republican party have left is to try to get some fig leaf to save face and so far Obama won't even give them that.

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Comment Preferences

  •  And I say we've already lost (9+ / 0-)

    ... or to be more precise (because the game's never over) we've been losing badly for a long time and nothing that's going on now significantly changes the landscape.

    Remember, we've reached the point where we count preserving the status quo of the sequester is the best possible outcome. Refunding any of the programs that have been so brutally cut is not on anyone's agenda.

    As is so often the case, I'm with digby:

    Do you want to know why John Boehner keeps his job through all this nonsense year after year? Let him explain it to you:
    "I got 98% of what I wanted"
    It's a good selling point. And considering that the final result of that was sequestration, he was right. When you look at the budget battles as one long running fight from 2011 on, you see that Democrats have achieved one thing: they allowed the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy to expire, only two years late. I'd have to give the rest to the Republicans, although there are many Democrats strutting around taking credit for austerity in the midst of an epic economic downturn, so maybe they think they won too.

    "The smartest man in the room is not always right." -Richard Holbrooke

    by Demi Moaned on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 05:39:26 PM PDT

  •  Long run, I believe you are right. (6+ / 0-)

    But it's hurting the h3ll out of people already and if if goes on a couple more weeks, it will be killing people.

    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

    by CwV on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 05:41:47 PM PDT

  •  Dunno. They've Timed This for a Midterm Election (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davidkc, Demi Moaned

    not a Presidential, when the punishing effects of moderates and Obama surge voters such as youth and minorities will be minimal.

    Obama is saying nonstop that he'll negotiate everything. Just not under the hammer of shutdown and debt ceiling.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 05:45:50 PM PDT

  •  Won = Nancy Pelosi with the Speaker's Gavel (4+ / 0-)

    And then there'll be much more winning after that.

  •  never call a W a W in any universe that (5+ / 0-)

    includes the GOP as they work to rehab the reps of such people as Herbert Hoover, Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon, J Edgar Hoover and GWB among others.

    If you notice, it was once a given that the Gingrich shutdown was an unmitigated disaster for the GOP, crippling them in the elections and destroying Newt's career.  If you have listened to Paul, Cruz and other TP activists, they are now pushing the meme that the Clinton shutdowns were slam dunks for their party so this new shut down will be another slam dunk.  After all, David Barton is their historian of choice and nothing they allege surprises me anymore, from claims that slaves served in the CSA army to the Founding Fathers were all Protestant Fundamentalists who never really owned slaves.

    Just for your amusement, I present Beck's latest "discovery" that Lowes is a hotbed of progressivism and is seeking to overthrow conservative rule by the names of its products:

  •  I think that's an interesting theory. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The more they enumerate all the good parts of government, the less their attack on government makes sense. Just yesterday, on the Daily Show clips, I heard my idiot rep repeat Reagan's line about government being the problem.

    It is my opinion that Boehner is caving on the debt limit because his Wall St benefactors are calling him----more and more often. Ditto for the rest of his caucus.

  •  While it's difficult to imagine why (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Demi Moaned

    anyone would ever want to vote for a Republican, especially in light of this shutdown, people will, amazingly.

    And this current battle isn't over yet.

    I'll relax after November 2014. If we somehow manage to regain the House, that is.

    Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

    by DeadHead on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 06:16:11 PM PDT

  •  A case for government (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    What I'm saying is as unfortunate as this shutdown is, this is the first time that the democrats, the media and even the republicans have made a viceral case for the real role government plays in our lives.  We have spent the last 5 years talking about deficits, not now.

  •  Recommended for the viewpoint, but I disagree. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sfbob, Demi Moaned

    Especially the part about the longer it goes the more we win.

    Every day that goes by is one more day where the notion that government is the problem is reinforced.  After all, the government has "shut down" and yet life continues for a majority of the population.  As usual, it's the poor who are getting screwed.  It would be different if it were a real shutdown -- it wouldn't have lasted ten minutes.

  •  Nobody 'wins' in this.... it sucks anyway you look (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sfbob, 88kathy, Demi Moaned

    at it.   We become that much closer to an ungovernable mess like Greece or Italy.

    We will never be free from fear as long as we fear the NRA.

    by captainlaser on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 06:24:12 PM PDT

  •  The shutdown helps them understand the debt (0+ / 0-)


    The Capitol Hill police are essential so they cannot be furloughed. That means they will be paid later. So when my Republican friends say that the Capitol Hill police are not really working without pay because they will be paid later.

    That is when I remind them that many Republicans feel that not paying money owed is a great way to reduce spending and the Capitol Hill police pay may not be the done deal they are making it out to be.

    Kind of brings the two together in the mind's eye.

    Only gun owners can control their guns and they say oopsie way too much. I lost it, I forgot it, it just went off. Support Gun Kill Speed Limits and Gun Ownership Speed Limits.

    by 88kathy on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 10:49:00 PM PDT

    •  The false premise of this is that if they get all (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      they want, the shutdown will go and life will go back to the way it was. It won't.

       Especially if the debt ceiling default happens, because credit ratings won't  return to what they were,  as the market now knows that Rs will continue to do this sort of thing, and what little is left of private pensions will be gone, and they won't let SS again be paid out of the Trust fund until after all bonds are paid off, no matter how many people slowly die for want of what they paid forty years to get. Our position abroad will not simply pop back, as they know we have idiots who will do things so that no promise to any of them can reliably expect to be kept, even to Israel. Nor will any of those programs they did the PR think with the last couple of days in fact reliably return either- their fancy vote was for six weeks, not even the full year.

      •  Exactly but they get lost easily. It's easier for (0+ / 0-)

        them to grasp that the Capitol Hill cop is running on savings and may or may not be reimbursed when they blithely 'cut spending' by not paying him his salary.

        I am convinced they just haven't ever thought it through.

        Only gun owners can control their guns and they say oopsie way too much. I lost it, I forgot it, it just went off. Support Gun Kill Speed Limits and Gun Ownership Speed Limits.

        by 88kathy on Sat Oct 05, 2013 at 12:51:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  They have been working on this five years. Three (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          years on ACA. At some point we have to recognize that they are not the morons that the want of planning indicates, but rather that they intended the harm they are causing, because they are never really going to fix anything of the damage they caused already, that they are ready to cause more unless they get something or other they cannot or will not name, and won't stop unless somebody stops them.  

          They don't intend to fix ACA OR come up with an alternative. They intend ordinary joes have to do without.

          They don't intend fairness for anyone. Once SS stops paying benefits, they do not intend to allow that to begin again. Once Medicare runs out of cash, they don't intend to rectify that. That money will under Ryan's plan go to reduce the taxes of their favorites to nothing, and lower than that, and the rest of us will have to pay for it, and get nothing from the taxes at all, and be so financially insecure that we can't afford to fight, or even to get the education tools to do it.  

          They don't intend to go back to the old days when the minority party had some rights and some ability to particpate in Congressional choices because they don't intend to allow the structures to exist that might change control of government in any direction other than them.

          •  I think we are on different levels here. I am (0+ / 0-)

            talking the rank and file. You are talking the elected representatives. Yes those people are willfully evil.

            Representative Jenkins for one. What a waste. I will be happy to see them all go down.

            Only gun owners can control their guns and they say oopsie way too much. I lost it, I forgot it, it just went off. Support Gun Kill Speed Limits and Gun Ownership Speed Limits.

            by 88kathy on Sat Oct 05, 2013 at 01:06:11 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  This is lose-lose (0+ / 0-)


    "Never wrestle with a pig: you get dirty and the pig enjoys it"

    by GrumpyOldGeek on Sat Oct 05, 2013 at 07:38:36 AM PDT

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