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Drawing of a somewhat beefy child-man having a temper tantrum.
Republican spokesperson
Jonathan Chait worries that if the Republican shutdown continues, President Obama may need a more concise message.
As a communications strategy, Obama seems to be placing a lot of faith in the political media's ability to process complex positions on a wide array of issues. Right now, Republicans have a simple message: let's talk. Obama needs to have a simple message: reopen the government.
Chait has a point, but he also misses the point. This is about much more than just reopening the government, but that doesn't mean that the larger message can't be easily explained.

Certainly, the Republican message is deceptively simple—as in both deceptive and simple—while the response from Democrats tends to be substantive, and substance tends to require more detailed thought.

But if the Republican message is simply that they want to talk, Democrats can just as simply refute it, because the Republicans clearly don't actually want to talk. If they did, they would talk. They wouldn't be shutting down the government and threatening to blow up the economy if all they wanted to do was talk. Their threats aren't about talking, they're about bypassing talking and skipping right ahead to getting what they want, without talking. This is not about talking, it's about attempted bullying. It's a tantrum.

The Democratic message has been clear, but it also has been elaborate and detailed. Which may confuse some. So, for the sake of simplicity, for the sake of sound bites, for the sake of the quick quips and small words with which the television media is most comfortable, and which even Republicans should be able to comprehend, here is the Democratic message: We're always willing to talk to reasonable people, but never in response to bullying or tantrums. Open the government, stop threatening a default, and stop the entire politics of extortion, and we can start talking. Until that happens, there is nothing else to talk about.

We're always willing to talk to reasonable people, but never in response to bullying or tantrums.

Originally posted to Laurence Lewis on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 06:01 AM PDT.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  If your 3 year old wants to jump off a cliff (4+ / 0-)

    there is no negotiation.

    Cake or DEATH? Oh, I'll have cake, please.

    by wmtriallawyer on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 06:04:38 AM PDT

  •  I think that's the (6+ / 0-)

    key word, and the President used it yesterday: "extortion." Looking just now at Google News, "extortion" made its way into more than a few headlines.
    Related words within the same frame (e.g. "ransom," which I believe he used more than once) are also effective.
    He even made a brief reference to not negotiating with someone who wants to burn down your house, which made me wonder whether Judd Legum's tweet had filtered up to the oval office.
    -- Stu

    "Oh me oh my oh me oh my What a lot of funny things go by!" - T. Geisel

    by sdf on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 06:16:33 AM PDT

    •  T.E.A. = Terrorist Economic Agenda (5+ / 0-)

      They are domestic economic and political terrorists and it's time to drive a stake through the heart of the T.E.A.=Terrorist Economic Agenda Party by labeling them such and the President and Democratic leaders should all be of one accord on this message, pounding podiums if needed while sternly saying, "We will NOT negotiate with terrorists who threaten America, whether they are foreign or domestic."

      The T.E.A.=Terrorist Economic Agenda Party needs to be declared as such and stuffed into the trashbin of history, for the good of the country.

      Now is the time.

      'Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive' - VP Joe Biden

      by RobertInWisconsin on Fri Oct 11, 2013 at 07:38:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Can we also add... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Janet 707

      ..."Vandalism"? "Reckless Endangerment"? Or my tried-and-true standby when describing the GOP, "Malice"?

      Although I'd be seriously tempted to add "Sedition" to the vocabulary as well...

      "Federal law limits me to 3 shells when duck hunting, but no law limiting assault magazines. We have more protections for ducks than people." - Rep. Mike Thompson (CA-5)

      by radabush on Fri Oct 11, 2013 at 08:19:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Notably missing from the lexicon: (0+ / 0-)

      Blackmail

      Evolution IS Intelligent Design!

      by msirt on Sat Oct 12, 2013 at 07:01:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Blackmail is not applicable to this situation, (0+ / 0-)

        since it involves paying to keep a Dark Secret hidden from the public. There is no Dark Secret on the D side.

        Extortion is totally applicable - and so is racketeering. (Can the RICO laws be used against Congressthings, or have they immunized themselves against those too?)

        If it's
        Not your body,
        Then it's
        Not your choice
        And it's
        None of your damn business!

        by TheOtherMaven on Sat Oct 12, 2013 at 07:19:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I thought Obama has (10+ / 0-)

    had some pretty good sound bites like the gun to the head allusion, hostage taking, shouldn't have to offer them anything for them to do their jobs, etc.

    He and the Democrats have pretty successfully painted the GOP as hostage takers, economic terrorists.  The perennial 27% will never get it -- even if their checks aren't in the mail.

    Obama's presser yesterday was long, sure, but he spelled things out in very clear terms.  His target audience is not the eejits in this nation -- it is the Independents who have functioning brain cells.  He finally got very good questions by not asking any of the typical morans from teeveeland.

    " My faith in the Constitution is whole; it is complete; it is total." Barbara Jordan, 1974

    by gchaucer2 on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 06:18:22 AM PDT

    •  the independents with functioning brain cells (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cosmic debris, dallasdunlap

      are wondering why the Democrats have let it get this far.

      Anyone with a memory is wondering why, after Obama ran around last fall with his hair on fire telling us the sequester was going to kill us all, he announced that he would not seek to roll back the sequester cuts at the beginning of this latest round of negotiations.

      No one sane cares about the "moderate" Republicans who claim to be willing to back a clean CR (secure in the knowledge that Boehner will never actually allow such a vote to the floor). That's just stupid inside baseball, meaningless to ordinary Americans. "See, the Republicans are hypocrites!" cry the Democrats. "Look, they could stop this right now!" Yes, well, no one sane expects the Republicans to stop it, because they know the Republicans are insane. They look to the Democrats to stop it.

      This is not the 90s, when the Republicans were still formidable and united. The modern Republicans are a rump party, discredited in the eyes of the vast majority of the American public. There is no reason that Obama has to negotiate with them at all.

      Sane people don't care about the Democrats' moral superiority, or their endless protestations that they've bent over backwards to be reasonable here. They don't give a shit about that.

      They want a working government, and they don't want an economic collapse, and they don't want the sequester cuts (let alone more cuts). That's really not very much to ask, yet the Democrats seem completely unable to deliver it.

      And if the Democrats can't get that done without giving away even more cuts, then they're going to wonder why the hell they should be voting for the Democrats.

      "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

      by limpidglass on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 06:51:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So sane people don't know civics? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Onomastic

        Sane people think the Democrats should pass bills without the House of Representatives.

        OK. For some definitions of "sane."

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 07:06:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Classic apologism. (0+ / 0-)

          Did you actually read what limpidglass wrote?

          And if the Democrats can't get that done without giving away even more cuts, then they're going to wonder why the hell they should be voting for the Democrats.
          Everyone gets that the Republicans are obstructionist and batshit insane. Big whoop.

          All I hear is President Obama saying "We'll negotiate, but not over the shutdown. We'll negotiate immediately after the shutdown, but not over the shutdown!" Whoa! Grrrr! What a solid, ironclad stance! We won't concede to the Republicans right now over this, but we'll leak to the press that we'll totally concede once this blows over!

          Well, what the hell difference does it make then?

          As always, the POTUS refuses to do the obvious right thing. If you're going to leak anything to the press, you'd think he would leak "yeah, and when this shutdown is over, we're going to 'negotiate' over repealing the sequester". But no. It's been made pretty clear that we're going back to the Grand Bargain, be still my beating heart.

          As if the Republican House justifies Obama not even attempting to repeal the sequester, much less do something like actually strengthening the social safety net.

          And yet all I hear about is how defeated and discredited the Republicans are. Such brilliance. So much "winning" by the Dems. Whatever.

          Banking on the American people to be able to sort all this out and declare the adult in the room the winner is a very big bet. -Digby

          by Boogalord on Sat Oct 12, 2013 at 09:20:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  the problem (0+ / 0-)

      is that there are so many accurate ways to frame this, they need to narrow it and stick to it. and reveal the lie that the republicans want to talk.

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 07:56:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  That 22-27% is the same crowd (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Quantumlogic, ssgbryan

      numerically if not literally that believes Elvis is still alive  & working at Burger King in Grand Rapids, that the Moon landing was faked on a Hollywood soundset, etc.

      They are the truly and epically stupid, crazy, and conspiracy-addled who believe George W Bush was the best president ever as well as the Second Coming of the messiah.

      'Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive' - VP Joe Biden

      by RobertInWisconsin on Fri Oct 11, 2013 at 08:52:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I think the succinct message that (9+ / 0-)

    Americans will get and understand is:

    We will not Re-Negotiate a done deal with people who acted in bad faith

    With this as the long version:

    We did negotiate. We negotiated the budget and we took their number. We gave up 70 billion and they came up 11 billion so they got the best of that negotiation. We had a deal and the Republicans reneged in order to politically grandstand over an impossible demand - defunding Obamacare.

    There is a term for that - Bad Faith.

    We will negotiate a future deal once they pass the Cr and the debt ceiling

    “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR

    by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 06:27:04 AM PDT

  •  the mere fact that they are threatening (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    3goldens

    global economic collapse tells you how crazy the Republicans have become.

    Yet the Democrats still believe that, after all this, the GOP will just withdraw their threat, sit down, and have a reasonable chat about the budget (code word for cuts in the safety net). No matter how outrageous the Republicans' demands become, the Democrats never actually walk away from negotiations, nor are there any adverse consequences for the GOP, so the Republicans have no incentive to moderate their demands whatsoever.

    So what if they don't get EVERYTHING they want? They're playing with house money, every time, so each time they come out ahead. They've not lost anything, not a thing, in these negotiations.

    You can't calm down a bunch of maniacs by telling them to be reasonable. If they were reasonable things would never have gotten this far. The only thing they will respond to is force. Unless Obama is willing to use all means at his disposal to end the threat of a default, they'll keep pushing, confident that they can squeeze something out of the Democrats.

    The time for talk is over; as far as the GOP was concerned, there never was a time for talk in the first place.

    If Obama and the Democrats don't wake up to reality, they're going to end up getting rolled. And since they don't look to be waking up any time soon...

    "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

    by limpidglass on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 06:33:23 AM PDT

    •  So if talk at any time is out of the question... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joe from Lowell, Onomastic

      what do you suggest?

      I'm pretty sure arresting them and tossing them into Gitmo is not allowed (as wonderful as that would be); so what's the alternative?

      They are the other half of government after all; you have to work with what you got.

      Tax and Spend I can understand. I can even understand Borrow and Spend. But Borrow and give Billionaires tax cuts? That I have a problem with.

      by LiberalCanuck on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 06:45:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I just hope they won't cave (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Laurence Lewis

    Again

    Happy just to be alive

    by exlrrp on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 06:39:33 AM PDT

    •  They can't cave, that's what's different. (7+ / 0-)

      Caving means giving up OCare for another year.  Sounds reasonable on the face, but given as it is already law, Obama would essentially be allowing the Repubs the power of the Executive and allowing them to bypass the Senate.

      It literally would be the end of American Democracy as understood and practiced for over 200 years.

      Caving would mean the Democrats nolonger had the Executive or the Senate.  It would elminate all Dem Representatives and even neuter the few GOP moderates.

      If he caved, Obama would be surrendering the right to govern as would any Democratic successor.

      That is what the GOP hasn't realized and can't understand.

      Tax and Spend I can understand. I can even understand Borrow and Spend. But Borrow and give Billionaires tax cuts? That I have a problem with.

      by LiberalCanuck on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 06:49:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What makes the Repubs think they can do this (0+ / 0-)

        is partly because they've gotten away with it before. Obama and the Dems have backed down or compromised before. if they hadn't, we wouldn't be here now, I'm pretty sure.Too many examples to list but start with sunsetting the Bush Tax cuts---which Obama had made an election promise. And previous debt limit fights.
        They have the advantage because they are in this for their own personal aggrandizement, which knows no limits.  Obama and the D's are fighting this with the nation at their backs, so they can't make a mistake----which, with the Obama administration means calling for an excess of caution.
        I have to say that altho I'm still an Obama supporter, the guy is just  not very bold. He's not really a strong leader on a personal level, out there pounding the pavements and buttonholing people. He works largely through others.
        republicans are just nastier than he is, more willking to go for the jugular and they know it.

        Like you, I think this is an all or nothing situation. If they back down, or even compromise in any way, they're ceding the government to the barbarians. But that doesn't mean they look at it that way.
        The Repubs think they can get him to cave or compromise because they've done it before. The law of unintended consequences on previous compromises.
        I hope they don't back down, I really do, but all my hopes have been so cruelly dashed so many times before. The fact that we don't have single payer speaks to that and in this exact context too.

        Happy just to be alive

        by exlrrp on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 07:09:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  oops, to finsh the line (0+ / 0-)

          should be: "The law of unintended consequences on previous compromises has finally caught up with them."

          Happy just to be alive

          by exlrrp on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 07:12:53 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Actually, it was Clinton who started the... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Onomastic

          shut down tactic to achieve political ends.  When the D's were in opposition they flirted with the idea but never used it.

          It also isn't correct to compare this with 2011.  Then what was being negotiated wasn't the established law, passed by both houses and approved the SCOTUS and already implemented.  Then it was the Bush tax cuts, and if recall, the D's got quite a bit more than increased taxes on those earning over $400k.  

          It is popular to say the D's "caved" but then the R's say that about Boehner too, so that sounds like both sides actually compromised and got a little something each.

          As I said above, this is not the same animal at all.  The GOP is nolonger run by the Speaker but by the Tea Party, and the TP won't give up anything.  They don't make offers, they make demands.  There is nothing the D's could offer in exchange for repealing OCare that would reopen government even if they were willing to negotiate while government was shut down.  All they can give to end the shut down is repealing OCare; or in other words, handing over the reins of government to the minority of the minority.

          They can't, even if they wanted too.

          Tax and Spend I can understand. I can even understand Borrow and Spend. But Borrow and give Billionaires tax cuts? That I have a problem with.

          by LiberalCanuck on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 07:39:39 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Anything's possible when you make the rules (0+ / 0-)

            or when you can find the Magic Loophole (like the Platinum Coin concept)
            I'm really hoping you're right but see above
            I wish I had your confidence but there's plenty of history of backing down and compromising in a variety of different circumstances to look at.
            And the latest thing was Syria. The red line turned out not to be so red or so much a line after all. he was talked out of a strike (Thank God!) which it really  seemed like he was intent on doing. I was not impressed by his dedication to what I thought would be such a wrongheaded thing to do.

            And I think it would be wrong to back down or compromise on this.

            Happy just to be alive

            by exlrrp on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 01:14:06 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  The political environment is totally different. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Onomastic

      In 2011, going into the debe ceiling talks, the Republicans were the more popular party, they had just won an election convincingly, they were setting the terms of the political discourse, and the public was evenly split on who to blame for the impasse. Remember when they were saying, "We campaigned against raising the debt ceiling, and we won, so we should follow through on what the public voted for?"

      That has all changed. The Republicans are hugely unpopular, the Democrats much more popular, the Democrats just won the election, the Republican line is discredited, and the public has decisively come around to blaming the Republicans for impasses.

      Politics matters in politics. In 2011, the Republicans' political victory meant they were going to be able to shift policy in their direction somewhat, and the name of the game for Democrats was to cut losses. In 2013, they have no such backing, and there is no impetus for the Democrats to give up anything.

      Art is the handmaid of human good.

      by joe from Lowell on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 07:12:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  OK (0+ / 0-)
        In 2013, they have no such backing, and there is no impetus for the Democrats to give up anything.
        So why are we talking about concessions for right after this shutdown is over?

        Banking on the American people to be able to sort all this out and declare the adult in the room the winner is a very big bet. -Digby

        by Boogalord on Sat Oct 12, 2013 at 09:24:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The problem is that the TPer's are now (3+ / 0-)

    convincing themselves and their voters debt default is no big deal and we've been down this road before. I almost want to see their faces when they realize how wrong they are, but too many people would be hurt. I don't see any good way out of this. If we don't recapture the house in '14, this (hostage taking by gop) is going to set in stone.

    Shut down due to Republican intransigence.

    by blueoregon on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 06:45:44 AM PDT

  •  The takeaway from the President's press (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    limpidglass, Laurence Lewis

    conference, as the media took it, was that he is willing to negotiate with the Republicans but not with a gun to his head.
    So he will accept a very short term CR and agreement to raise
    the debt ceiling and then he's willing to negotiate "entitlement" cuts and changes to the ACA.
       To the Republicans that translates to: He's ready to cave.

  •  And once the government reopens... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Laurence Lewis

    And the debt ceiling has been raised, I think the Democratic message should be:

    "We're willing to talk but it won't be with this Congress and this House. They have proven to be ineffective and dishonest partners for negotiating anything -- the farm bill, the annual budget, improvements to the PPACA, etc. We need to wait for the next election to usher in new Representatives in the House before we can negotiate."

    Or something like that. We need to draw a bright line between the shutdown and the potential debt default and this House. At some point pointing fingers at everyone does not capture what is happening. The fault is on one side and one side alone and the longer Boehner allows this shutdown to continue the more people will notice.

    The most dangerous... programs, from a movement conservative's point of view, are the ones that work the best and thereby legitimize the welfare state. Krugman

    by BasharH on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 08:01:46 AM PDT

  •  Ya know, the more the gop keeps harping on (0+ / 0-)

    the longer the shutdown goes on, the more debt we incur (i'm listening to a blurb on my rock station) the more voters are going to start thinking, "hey, if we just raise the taxes on the wealthy, we can pay off the debt." the repubs are just reminding people they're against the best move to pay off our debt, taxing the rich.

    Shut down due to Republican intransigence.

    by blueoregon on Wed Oct 09, 2013 at 08:08:37 AM PDT

  •  Negotiate? (0+ / 0-)

    Negotiate? Why do I have this nagging feeling that to the Prez and Democrats in congress negotiate means finding a nice soft spot to lie down? Oh sure they won't respond to extortion but as soon as the CR brouhaha passes and they get a temporary Debt Ceiling increase (really...TEMPORARY!) it will be back to business as usual...Kissing Republican Ass.

  •  That Republican talking point went bye-bye (0+ / 0-)

    over the last two days. The funny thing is -- it's Republicans not the President calling it a negotiation.

  •  The time to talk (0+ / 0-)

    started in March when the Senate passed  a budget and requested the normal conference committee.

    The House went on vacation. 239 days of vacation scheduled in 2013, IIRC.

    Their procrastination created this crisis.

    If they wanted to talk, they would put something on the table.

    They were elected to RUN the government, not RUIN it, Boehner needs to get his I out of this.

    We can safely abandon the doctrine of the eighties, namely that the rich were not working because they had too little money, the poor because they had too much. JK Galbraith, 1991

    by Urban Owl on Fri Oct 11, 2013 at 07:44:54 PM PDT

  •  Tantrums is being kind (3+ / 0-)

    Threatening the base currency of the planet is an act of Economic Terrorism.

    When Tradmed is listening to a Gynecologist. a Horse Doctor ,a Lawn Mower Salesman and an Alleged Eye Surgeon about macro economics, we've got bigger problems.
     

    I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

    by JML9999 on Fri Oct 11, 2013 at 07:45:02 PM PDT

  •  A smart move... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    417els

    ...by Obama would be to change the form of the debate.

    The Democratic message has been clear, but it also has been elaborate and detailed. Which may confuse some. So, for the sake of simplicity, for the sake of sound bites, for the sake of the quick quips and small words with which the television media is most comfortable, and which even Republicans should be able to comprehend, here is the Democratic message: We're always willing to talk to reasonable people, but never in response to bullying or tantrums.
    So, insist that all communications with the GOP regarding re-opening the government occur in writing. With the understanding that it will be posted in real time for the print media and the general public.

    Writing allows time for thought, clarity and reflection. Not to mention provides better accountability for those parties who need to be held accountable...

    "Federal law limits me to 3 shells when duck hunting, but no law limiting assault magazines. We have more protections for ducks than people." - Rep. Mike Thompson (CA-5)

    by radabush on Fri Oct 11, 2013 at 07:46:02 PM PDT

  •  Why not just say to the R's, (0+ / 0-)

    Pass a bill. There's no need to talk if Boner can't deliver the votes to pass a bill. Talk is cheap.

    "I'm totally pro-choice in the matter of abortion. But of course I'm also so radically pro-life that I think every person from birth onward must have full and affordable access to healthcare." - Gail Collins

    by gritsngumbo on Fri Oct 11, 2013 at 07:53:58 PM PDT

  •  GOP Demands A Constitutional Crisis (0+ / 0-)

    They want to wave the whole legislative process based on their threats.

    And if they crash the debt limit, it's not clear who would have any authority to do anything about it. It's not just not that nobody knows what to do.  And whatever Obama would do, the Goobers would immediately demand Obama be impeached. and hope for some sort of crazy Bush v. Gore decision from Scotus.

    Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

    by bernardpliers on Fri Oct 11, 2013 at 07:57:47 PM PDT

  •  First thing, stop being hemorrhoids in the... (0+ / 0-)

    ...rectum of our great nation.

    Then we 'll talk.

    OK?

    "So, am I right or what?"

    by itzik shpitzik on Fri Oct 11, 2013 at 07:57:59 PM PDT

  •  "No threats!" (0+ / 0-)

    That seems to be equally boiled down and simple, and gets the message across.

    It's a message I think the public already understands. I think a lot of people are making it more complicated than it is.

    A lot will depend on how all this resolves itself. So far, as in many other cases, Obama seems to know what he's doing.

    Contrary to some earlier opinions I had, I think it's wise that Obama is controlling the Democratic message. It's not getting muddied that way, and there's scant opportunity for the GOP to pounce on poorly articulated statements.

    I am nervous about the final outcome of all this. I don't mean just the shutdown and debt ceiling, but what comes after it all.

    I'm deeply concerned that we'll get chained CPI, means testing for Medicare, and no medical device tax -- and nothing else.

    In one aspect, I think the GOP is winning and that is that they are at least putting on the table what their wishlist is -- while I haven't heard ANYTHING from our side about what we would like.

    This would be a PERFECT time for trial-balloons from progressives about what WE would like to see in the pot for any kind of "grand bargain."

    We need to exact our own pounds of flesh. Standing by and watching the GOP self-destruct isn't enough. It's entertaining to be sure, but it's not enough in the long run. We've got to get something more than just ending the shutdown and raising the debt ceiling.

    Otherwise, the GOP will turn around and say "we won in the end."

    And they will be right.

    We can not let that happen, or today's polls will be the ephemeral fantasies we go to sleep with on a pillow wet with our own tears.

    What separates us, divides us, and diminishes the human spirit.

    by equern on Fri Oct 11, 2013 at 08:04:50 PM PDT

  •  This is why we can't have nice things (0+ / 0-)

    in this country anymore.

    The Fierce Urgency of Later

    by Faroutman on Fri Oct 11, 2013 at 08:06:54 PM PDT

  •  Response: So, let's talk ... (0+ / 0-)

    ... End the shutdown and raise the debt ceiling. We need government functioning. The public is telling you that, more loudly with each passing day. And we must pay bills for debts incurred by past and present Congresses. We are not a deadbeat nation and we can't afford the price if we are thought to be unable to pay our bills.

    There's no negotiation over those principles except, arguably, how long. The answer there is not just for a few weeks and not with debilitating conditions.

    If the Federal budget and spending levels are the real issues, there are budget committees of Congress to deal with the budget, as they have for decades in "the regular order." If the committees would rather meet in the White House than on the Hill, we'll make space available. But we don't need super-committees or finesses to others. We need the mutual will to achieve consensus.

    If the issue is Obamacare and Republicans have good ideas for making it better, let's talk. But an election was held with ACA as a main point of contention. We won and we're moving forward from there.

    2014 IS COMING. Build up the Senate. Win back the House : 17 seats. Plus!

    by TRPChicago on Fri Oct 11, 2013 at 08:18:57 PM PDT

  •  It is so muddled the R's are at 28% (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gratuitous, churchylafemme

    Pundits.

    "Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than ten to twenty million killed, tops." General Buck Turgidson

    by muledriver on Fri Oct 11, 2013 at 08:40:48 PM PDT

    •  Bingo! We have a winner (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      churchylafemme, muledriver

      Yeah, "some people" might get confused. Just so, Mr. Chait; and a lot of those "some people" seem to be drawing really big salaries from media juggernauts to be confused. Weird, ain't it?

      But the polling numbers seem to be saying that not just "some people" are getting it, but a whole lot of people are getting it, and they know exactly where to place the blame for this fustercluck. It's like the mighty efforts of "some people" to be all confused is going for naught. Gotta make "some people" feel like they're wasting their time by trying to spread the confusion, huh?

  •  The Republicans are not a political party, they (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    churchylafemme

    are a lobbying consortium of special interests with a united front to slash and burn government and its regulation of business so they can profit.

    All else follows. There is nothing to compromise with or on, as they have already achieved Citizens United and the sequester. If the Dems yield a millimeter, which they appear poised to do in some manner, it will macerate the already eviscerated remains of our economy.

    There has not been a peep to be heard on raising taxes to cover the deficit, on either corporations or individuals. There has been no mention made of gerrymandering, no mention of the ills already created by the sequester and the failure to achieve raising the debt limit.

    The only news is about either Republican intransigence or Obama's failure to negotiate, depending on which side of the coin is pontificating.

    It's a pathetic failure of government, because so many Americans don't bother either inform themselves on political and economic issues, or vote.

    Capitalism is the astonishing belief that the nastiest motives of the nastiest men somehow or other work for the best results in the best of all possible worlds. ~ John Maynard Keynes

    by 4Freedom on Fri Oct 11, 2013 at 09:08:32 PM PDT

  •  exactly reopen it (0+ / 0-)

    I don't want to hear anything else until the govt is reopened and debt ceiling increased.

    "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Riane Eisler

    by noofsh on Fri Oct 11, 2013 at 10:01:35 PM PDT

  •  Another hurdle for dems, (0+ / 0-)

    they are all independent thinkers, so each of them tends to explain this showdown in his or her own way.  It would be far more effective if they would at least all explain the extortion using the same language.  

    It's actually quite surprising that Americans blame the GOP.  Every damn time I turn on my TV Machine, there is either some airhead wailing about both sides being to blame, or there's a republican claiming he just wants to negotiate, but Obama says "my way or the highway!" lol.  That so many Americans get it is a testament to how much less influence TV now has over public opinion than even 10 years ago.  

    "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

    by Subterranean on Fri Oct 11, 2013 at 10:10:52 PM PDT

  •  So you gotta work to present the facts: (0+ / 0-)

    You tellin' me thats un-American?

  •  I think the message should be: First Grow Up (0+ / 0-)

    Open govt. will leave future tantrums on the table.
    Let's make it simple, but cut to the core: grow up!

    Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. Voltaire

    by Suvro on Fri Oct 11, 2013 at 11:59:39 PM PDT

  •  Hear Hear! (0+ / 0-)
    ...here is the Democratic message: We're always willing to talk to reasonable people, but never in response to bullying or tantrums. Open the government, stop threatening a default, and stop the entire politics of extortion, and we can start talking. Until that happens, there is nothing else to talk about.

    * Move Sooner ~ Not Faster *

    by ArthurPoet on Sat Oct 12, 2013 at 12:16:44 AM PDT

  •  Simle response (0+ / 0-)

    St. Ronaldus Magnus: "We do not negotiate with terrorists." Nuff sed.

  •  Let's talk vs what? (0+ / 0-)

    Your explanation is good but it's too many words if your premise it correct.
    How about they say "Let's Talk" and we say "when you behave." or "Let's talk" > "when you grow up", or "Let's talk" > "Let's not".
    See what I mean. They are really good at pithy 2 word phrases or few words phrases or bumper stickers. We must be too. How about "Let's talk" and we say "It's complicated".

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