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After refusing to take part in a budget reconciliation conference all year, Republicans now agree to it.  Is there any chance for productive negotiations and compromise?  

No. None.  Absolutely none.  Zero.  Zilch. Zip.  

With one fiscal crisis barely over, fasten your seat belt for another bumpy ride to the brink.

The events of the last three weeks did nothing to restore trust between Democrats and Republicans in Congress.  Constant stormy weather prevailed since the 113th Session began.  It reached its first crescendo on May 6, 2013 when there was a hint of the government shutdown and debt default threat to come.  

Here’s an excerpt from the Senate proceeding on that date:

Sen. Cruz had roadblocked the usual business of a budget reconciliation conference because he wasn't certain that he'd get the deal he wanted.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid:

"My friend from Texas is like the schoolyard bully. He pushes everybody around and is losing, and instead of playing the game according to the rules, he not only takes the ball home with him but changes the rules. That way, no one wins—except the bully who tries to indicate to people that he has won. We are asking the Republicans to play by the rules and let us go to conference."

It was not to be because Cruz would not allow it.

(p. S 3082 at the link.)

After insisting on their demands and pushing Congress and the nation to the brink, who believes the Republicans are ready to make nice now?  

Let's look at the members they chose for a new budget committee that has until December 13 to come up with an agreement.

Rep. Tom Price (R-GA) represents the suburbs north of Atlanta. He’s Vice-Chair of the House Budget Committee and a member of the Tea Party Caucus and the Prayer Caucus.  And pray, he should, considering all the lies he tells.  He voted against ending the government shutdown and debt ceiling crisis.

Here’s his statement. Does it sound like he's in an accommodating mood?

“There’s nothing historic about this agreement. It is the response to a crisis manufactured by the President and a Democrat party [LIE #1] content with the nation’s fiscal ruin.[LIE #2]

For weeks, House Republicans have given our colleagues opportunity after opportunity to focus on the real challenges before us [LIE #3] – a ballooning debt, a weak economy and a health care law that is contributing to both. [LIE #4] Finding positive solutions to those challenges is what the American people elected us to do. That there’s now an agreement in place to talk about how we solve them is a good first step, but one has to wonder why the Democrat majority in Washington needed two weeks of a government shutdown and a run-up to the debt ceiling in order to agree to talk about doing their job.[LIE #5]

We have a $17 trillion national debt and millions of our fellow Americans are out of work or being pushed into part-time jobs. In the talks to come will Democrats continue to defend that status quo? For our part, House Republicans are going to continue to fight to do something about it – to break down barriers to economic growth, to unleash more opportunity and greater financial security for American families. [LIE #6]We, as always, welcome our Democrat colleagues to the table [LIE #7] to have an honest and healthy discussion focused on solutions. What remains to be seen is whether or not Senate Democrats and President Obama will in the days and weeks ahead embrace the opportunity they claim they want to negotiate and compromise.”


Full of piss and vinegar, Price is coming to the budget conference without the slightest hint of diplomacy or good will.

Rep. Diane Black (R-TN) is also a member of the Tea Party Caucus and represents the counties east and north of Nashville.  Black is an ardent foe of the Affordable Care Act and she also voted against the legislation that ended the fiscal crisis.

Does her statement sound any friendlier than Tom Price's?

"The bill that came before the House tonight would give the President a blank check to continue Washington’s reckless spending.[LIE #1] I have fought hard to keep the government open [LIE #2] and am glad that this bill preserves sequester level spending cuts; however, I cannot support a plan to increase our nation’s debt ceiling that ignores the drivers of our out of control debt and deficits.

Furthermore, to continue on this dangerous [LIE #3] trajectory, Harry Reid used a procedural gimmick [LIE #4] to strip the content of my important [LIE #5] House passed legislation, the No Subsidies Without Verification Act. This bill would have protected taxpayers [LIE #6] by preventing any Obamacare subsidies from being doled out until there is an independently verified system in place to ensure there are no fraudulent payments [LIE #7]. I think it is outrageous that my commonsense [LIE #8] bill was not given proper consideration before the full Senate and was instead used in yet another Washington shell game.?

I will continue to fight in Congress against the President’s disastrous [LIE #9] healthcare law and to rein in out of control[LIE #10] spending. With a $17 trillion debt, it is long past time that lawmakers come to the table and address our looming fiscal crisis in order to preserve the security of our nation for future generations.?

I am grateful to Speaker Boehner, Chairman Ryan and my House colleagues for the opportunity to work with Members of both Chambers of Congress to address our nation’s debt and deficits. This is the first year that I have been in Congress where the Senate has passed a budget that allows us to go to conference, and therefore this is an important step in returning the work of Congress to regular order. Our nation is $17 trillion in debt, and unless we do something to address out of control [LIE #11] Washington spending, we are jeopardizing the security of our country for future generations. I look forward to participating in the upcoming budget negotiations and working to put America’s finances in order.”


She packed even more lies into her statement than Price did.

These two tea party Bolsheviks are led by Rep. Paul Ryan Chair of the House Budget Committee, failed Vice-Presidential candidate, and author of a fantasy literature series known as The Ryan Budgets.

Ryan also voted against ending the fiscal crisis.

As if these three aren't enough of a roadblock, they will be joined on the budget committee by Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL) the Keebler elf lookalike with a temper.  Sessions is the ranking minority party member on the Senate Budget Committee.  He voted against ending the government shutdown and debt ceiling debacle too. What are the chances of constructive negotiations with him at the table?

Read his statement:

“In the last five years, Washington spent more than $15 trillion and added more than $6 trillion to the debt. Never has so great a sum been spent for so little in return. Despite this huge stimulus spending, wages are lower than in 1999 and nearly 60 million working-age Americans aren’t working [WHOPPER]. Fewer people are employed today than in 2007.

But Leader Reid and the White House have adopted the extreme stance that there is to be no change in policy to help the millions of Americans being squeezed out of the middle class.[WHOPPER]

They demanded yet another increase in the debt limit – without cutting one single penny of spending. [WHOPPER]They demanded the unfettered implementation of Obamacare – a law that will add $6 trillion [WHOPPER] to the long-term debt while causing millions of hardworking people to lose their jobs and health plans, forced into part-time work that can’t support a family. And they even demanded that we spend above the Budget Control Act – a transparent effort to permanently bust federal spending caps.[MULTIPLE WHOPPERS]


I’m cutting this crazy fucker off right there because he has obviously left the plane of reality and he is far beyond reach.

60 million working-age Americans not working, he says.  The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that 11.3 million people are currently unemployed.  The number reaches 17.6 million if the count is expanded to include all categories of individuals who say they are unemployed but want a job.  Millions of other working-age Americans, like homemakers and students aren't working because that is their choice.  Sessions must be dreaming of the days when he might have had a chance to crack the whip on anyone who didn’t keep busy enough to satisfy his expectations.  He overstated by more than 40 million people who don't answer to him.  They're never going to toil on his plantation so he can quit daydreaming.

Sessions talks about an extreme stance against policy change. That's actually the Republicans’ default position and Sessions is just projecting it onto Democrats here.

If he says that spending hasn't been cut, Sessions must have slept through something called see-kwest-ray-shun.

As for the Affordable Care Act, a CBO cost analysis projected that its repeal would add $109 billion to the deficits from 2013 to 2022.and no one demanded unfettered implementation because IT’S THE LAW.

Lastly, the Senate’s recent CR reauthorized the same level of spending approved by the House, which is the cap set by the Budget Control Act.

Sessions, in action, is a little martinet who will single-handedly ensure that nothing is accomplished by the newly appointed budget committee so that there will be a replay of the government shutdown and debt ceiling crisis in January 2014.

Part of our history is lost each time a new budget committee meets in closed hearings. We saw nothing of the Simpson-Bowles Commission and the Supercommittee was just as invisible.  The Democrats don't make much effort to narrate what went on in closed-door meetings either.  It is confidential?  Have the Republicans been negotiating in bad faith for three years now?  

The public saw a bit more of the drama during the first debt ceiling debacle but most of the bargaining took place behind closed doors in that episode too.  

We need transparency.  After-the-fact narratives can be spun into fabricated tales.  One side seems to specialize in falsehoods.  What the people see, and don't see, helps them decide how to cast their votes on election day.  

There are people in our government who need to be closely watched.

Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 1:46 AM PT: I had to look twice when I saw this Spotlighted.  I didn’t expect that.  

Thank you, DailyKos!

One more thought about the topic:

Kicking the can instead of negotiating isn’t all bad.  If negotiators can’t or won’t negotiate, let the voters decide by kicking the can past the next election.  Voters should determine public policy.  We’re drifting away from that when we have a minority within a minority using coercive methods to impose public policy that favors a few of the few, and haves over have-nots.  There’s no justification for fabricating a series of crises and scheduling them every quarter. It erodes stability.

Originally posted to researchandanalyze on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 03:26 PM PDT.

Also republished by Three Star Kossacks and Community Spotlight.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Not all Democrats are saints but... (12+ / 0-)

    Republicans appear to be addicted to lying. That's a tough gap to bridge.

    •  None of us is a saint. I know that and the (11+ / 0-)

      Democratic House rep in the district next to mine knows how I feel about her crossing party lines to vote with Republicans during this last episode.  She ran on her 'strong progressive values' in the last election and never wavered from that during the campaign.  At least she responded directly to me and I didn't hold back.

      I never think of what I write as a "ROX/SUX" piece, but I know that some people automatically categorize everything they read here as one or the other.  I'm more interested in process, strategy, and outcomes.  

      I write a lot about fiscal matters, finance, and economics, and "redistribution" is in my mind.  I sense a lot of pent up anger and frustration with current circumstances where the left can talk incessantly about income inequality but the rest of what needs to be said is stuck in our throats. Why is it ok for rightwingers to promote tax cuts for the rich while redistribution is a dirty word?

      There is no existence without doubt.

      by Mark Lippman on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 02:40:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Tax cuts for the rich *IS* wealth redistribution! (4+ / 0-)

        One way, Upwards.  This is an important message we need to use, relentlessly.

        •  I call that counter-redistribution to avoid (7+ / 0-)

          mixing it up with redistribution which is a legitimate tool that helps maintain economic and social stability.   Counter-redistribution is a blueprint for destroying the economy.

          I was thinking of it because Chris Van Hollen who was appointed to the budget commission as one of the Democratic representatives introduced a bill earlier this year to repeal the sequester and replace it with other measures including a minimum income tax rate of 30% on amounts over $1,000,000.  It would address the Romneys and the Buffets, people who have huge incomes and advantages that reduce their effective income tax rate to 13% or 14%.  A floor at 30% would go a long way for the good of the country.  It should be clear from everything that has been happening.

          There is no existence without doubt.

          by Mark Lippman on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 08:50:01 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Don't change the word. Mess with the Tea Baggers. (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            wasatch, HappyinNM, JVolvo, native

            They scream about "wealth redistribution".  We have to highlight whose policies are really redistributing wealth, and who are really getting the money.  What you call "wealth redistribution" is already a pejorative phrase for them.  It's simply progressive taxation.  If you change the name for what THEY DO and make it longer, then you confuse the message.  Political education has a lot in common with advertising.  Keep it simple.  In our case, though, we also have to keep it honest.

  •  You've done an excellent job (11+ / 0-)

    of pointing out the lies and whoppers these ... people ... tell.

    As for transparency, the last presidential election proved that we can learn more from one waiter with a hidden camera than from just about anything else. When they don't know they're being taped, we see their true personalities & beliefs.

    We need to organize the waiters in D.C. to always tape groups of GOPers. heh

    Irony takes a worse beating from Republicans than Wile E. Coyote does from Acme. --Tara the Antisocial Social Worker

    by Youffraita on Thu Oct 17, 2013 at 11:05:55 PM PDT

  •  This one ... (4+ / 0-)
    60 million working-age Americans not working, he says.  The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that 11.3 million people are currently unemployed.
    Technically, he didn't "lie" per se, since morons like Sessions and those of his ilk truly believe Americans should be "working" well into their 80's - and starting at age 12.

    ("Other" Americans - not him, or his donors of course)

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ... Voltaire

    by RUNDOWN on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 02:13:14 AM PDT

    •  Because I'm a statistics nerd I read 60 million (5+ / 0-)

      not working . . . and think . . . if they were we'd have a negative unemployment rate.   Where would all those jobs come from?  When, in history, particularly during the years when Republicans were in charge, did the work force grow at a rate to absorb 60 million people.  NEVER!  

      His nonsense pollutes the process.

      There is no existence without doubt.

      by Mark Lippman on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 03:00:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Love constant infantile use of 'Democrat party'. (9+ / 0-)

    Simply pathetic and gratuitously petulant.

    These people are pouting bullies, nursing a bloody nose and plotting revenge. They need another bloody nose. Hopefully in November 2014.

  •  Sen King commented on Fix The Debt (5+ / 0-)

    folks working in the background by giving a spreadsheet to Senators on the committee and how different ideas will impact the debt.  Don't kid yourself Simpson is not gone.

  •  Money, power, and ego (3+ / 0-)

    I was about to write that Republicans lie so much because the truth damns their objectives. However, I think ot more accurate to write that they lie so much because their character is so corrupted by a selfish lust for money, power, and ego validation.

  •  I don't think their immediate goal (6+ / 0-)

    was to defund the ACA.  Yes, I think they want it gone, but I think the shutdown was about cutting the GDP and affecting unemployment negatively so those numbers go on record under Obama's term.  They can't afford to let things get better because it will most certainly mean another Dem president, which means more Dem policies, which moves up more securely into a stable nation of social and economic justice.  Taking it that far for a few years simply dooms their chanced of rollback, ever.

    And so they fight like cornered animals.  No rules.  Say anything.  Someone might buy it makes it worth a shot.  Block voting.  Block jobs bill.  Shutdown gov't, slash GDP, raise unemployment.  The kitchen sink.

    They are desperate.  We will see this fight over and over again up until the 2016 election with them calmly blaming the Dems and counting on the ignorance and child like emotions of an electorate.

    1. What does it mean? 2. And then what?

    by alwaysquestion on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 08:42:22 AM PDT

    •  Break the deadlock in 2014./ (4+ / 0-)

      There is no existence without doubt.

      by Mark Lippman on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 09:04:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  to win in *14 we have to get out the base. (6+ / 0-)

        to get the base out,  we, the Democrats running for the House,  need to offer the voters something more than not the crazies.

        We need to spell out, with proposed legislation, exactly  WHAT the Democratic House can and will deliver if it is given the majority. A promise, starting with a massive infrastructure repair and upgrade program that creates long-term jobs at good wages for millions of Americans.

        Think of a few other bills that would have similar benefits to Americans of all stripe and promote them all as a package, on a national platform and give the voters something to be voting FOR.

        don't always believe what you think

        by claude on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 09:29:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Exactly. n/t (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          claude

          1. What does it mean? 2. And then what?

          by alwaysquestion on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 09:33:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Tried and true old school basics that work. (5+ / 0-)

          How about a minimum wage that keeps people above the poverty line? A living wage is more than an obvious direct benefit to labor.  There are far reaching effects that benefit everyone.  

          There is no existence without doubt.

          by Mark Lippman on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 10:21:51 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I know hope and change have been used, but (0+ / 0-)

            hope is needed, and is a strong motivator. Whatever the message, it has to be short and sweet. People really don't have time to understand the issues. They just have to be honest, and feel good.

        •  exactly, get of the grand bargain bullshit (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JVolvo, native

          that makes people suspicious of the democratic party, turns activists off, the base off and in general suppresses the turn out.  screw the "fix the debt", simpson/bowles fetishers.  That sort of "deal" won't help this country.

          "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Riane Eisler

          by noofsh on Sat Oct 19, 2013 at 06:01:11 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  And Dems need to RUN on those issues. Be Proud (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          native, Mark Lippman

          Dems, not quiet wallflowers who don't want to cause any trouble.

          I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign.

          But when a Democratic candidate goes out and explains what the New Deal and fair Deal really are--when he stands up like a man and puts the issues before the people--then Democrats can win, even in places where they have never won before. It has been proven time and again.

          We are getting a lot of suggestions to the effect that we ought to water down our platform and abandon parts of our program. These, my friends, are Trojan horse suggestions. I have been in politics for over 30 years, and I know what I am talking about, and I believe I know something about the business. One thing I am sure of: never, never throw away a winning program.This is so elementary that I suspect the people handing out this advice are not really well-wishers of the Democratic Party.

          Many of us know the 'choice between Repub and Repub in Dem clothing' line (and misquote it to high heaven!) however Truman's entire speech kicks ass.  

          Transcript of "Address at the National Convention Banquet of the Americans for Democratic Action" (May 17, 1952) from Truman Library.  

          As of 9pm 8/30/13: RETIRED Pie Warrior. Substance over Sh*t Flinging (as best as I am able) ~ JV

          by JVolvo on Sat Oct 19, 2013 at 07:43:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  ^^^^^THIS^^^^^ (0+ / 0-)

            Pride in who we are and what we value.  This comparison may not seem obvious but SOME liberals and progressives make me think of SOME gay people who stay in the closet.

            The internalized shame of liberals and progressives cannot be overestimated.  It comes from the way radical reactionary regressives have been allowed to devalue the social safety net, labor, and government.  Liberals and progressives are weighed down by slogans like "makers and takers," "47%," "nanny state."

            Sometimes, I see liberals and progressives, even on DK, making excuses and covering for their opponents, on principle. They want to be fair.

            I want to shake them and say "Stand up for yourself, dammit. That comes first."

            There is no existence without doubt.

            by Mark Lippman on Sat Oct 19, 2013 at 01:14:02 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Yep. My money goes to campaigns, not (3+ / 0-)

        presents at the holidays.  We are fine and all needs are covered and we never really did much for gifts anyway, but for the last few years, all of the money goes to campaigns.  Every dollar in the bucket counts.  What I really need is a stable society in which to raise my daughter.  She is 13 and her eyes are open.  She is watching.  Pretty soon, she will be able to speak to her peers calmly and with facts about political choices.  This will be an ongoing struggle and those who stop fighting, lose.

        1. What does it mean? 2. And then what?

        by alwaysquestion on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 09:41:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, they can't let ACA get a foot hold (3+ / 0-)

      in cities and communities across our country.  Millions of people will benefit, with thousands of lives being saved.  Word will quickly spread about the benefits of ACA and then the GOP's lies will be revealed for all to see.

      I also think part of what we are seeing are the beginning death throes of majority white rule, which scares these ignorant people who cannot adjust to social evolution.

      "It took us a couple of days because I like to know what I'm talking about before I speak." President Barack Obama 3/24/09

      by sfcouple on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 02:39:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  too late, it already has (0+ / 0-)

        and will accelerate considerably over the next few months (yes even with a web site that has issues, people are having success using the phone number).

        "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Riane Eisler

        by noofsh on Sat Oct 19, 2013 at 05:58:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  there's one thing that may help (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mark Lippman, HappyinNM

    when it comes to the new deadlines for resolving their budget differences...timing.

    Republicans seem to have felt no compunction whatsoever about forcing a government shutdown, probably calculating that with almost a year to go until Congressional elections, most of the public will have forgotten, or, at the very least, they would not longer care as much.

    However, if Republicans start pulling stunts like this again in February, that's getting dangerously close to the November 2014 elections. Not only would another shutdown be relatively fresh on voters' minds in November, but it will also remind them of this year's shutdown, as well.

    My guess is that the Republicans will not be as brazen this next time around. Despite that they were completely to blame for everything, they still managed to convince a fair number of people that "everyone" was to blame (their efforts at creating false equivalence did work, at least to some extent).

    But the main reason Republicans took the bulk of the blame this time, in my opinion, may well have been the way that they did this. They weren't even the least bit suble...or nuanced. When they started just issuing new ransom demand after new ransom demand, it became obvious, even to the most casual observers, that they were just bound and determined to create a crisis.

    If they decide to use that tactic again, my guess is that they will try to be much more nuanced, and provide themselves "plausible deniability" (i.e. an excuse that at least has some degree of plausibility, not matter how lame, unlike this time, when their excuses were so lame that they weren't the least bit plausible).

    The odds of a government shutdown happening in February, however, seem signficantly lower to me. And the president and Democrats come to the table with a little more leverage.

    •  I love it. You described what reasonable & sane (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wdrath, highacidity, HappyinNM, mwm341

      people do, probably because you're reasonable & sane and you know how to choose among alternatives for the best outcome.  Why would anyone do otherwise?

      People are already predicting the demise of the GOP and another crisis in 2014 will do them in.  Except they don't see it that way.  They devote resources to fabricate their own version of events and the news media gives them plenty of cover.  Any mess they make is just one more thing they can blame on Obama.  

      It's rare that anyone ever confronts them point blank.  They're playing by different rules.

      There is no existence without doubt.

      by Mark Lippman on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 01:46:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  democracy (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mark Lippman, highacidity, JVolvo, fleisch

    Democracy doesn't always result in a win for the people.  First off, there's misinformation.  Secondly, the voting rolls have been cut in R run states.  Also,bigotry and fear create people voting against their own best interests.  Our form of democracy cannot endure the above, it is now on a collision course because we are losing our economic edge--we no longer have a frontier, and free trade has made us vulnerable.  Many Americans no longer believe in science--I would laugh but crying is more appropriate.

    Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. John Kenneth Galbraith .

    by melvynny on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 11:25:48 AM PDT

    •  Sure, democracy is being eroded and undermined. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      highacidity, HappyinNM, mwm341

      I think 2012 proved a couple of things.

      1)  There's a limit to the power of money.
      2)  The law of diminishing returns has taken hold.  

      Republicans can saturate the public with lies and propaganda. They can use a variety of voter suppression tactics.  It only goes so far until it reaches a threshold where its malevolent effects are reversed.  The excess effort only accomplishes one thing.  It exposes them for who and what they are.

      This latest episode went way too far to reflect on anyone but them and the irreparable harm they threatened ended up as irreparable harm to their cause.  

      I think they know they've bumped up against a limit to their effectiveness and I think they're capable of coming up with all sorts of stunts and tactics to break out.  

      We can create a wave that will sweep them away like they were never even there.

      There is no existence without doubt.

      by Mark Lippman on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 02:02:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  NC (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        highacidity, HappyinNM, JVolvo, fleisch

        I live in NC, the Rs have undone the last 50 years of progress--has limited voting rights, critically harmed education and health services--and will get re-elected again because of these moves.  Sure, some of this is because of gerrymandering--and of local bigotry--but mostly, it's because of the demise of information caused by local print media shrinking.  Put another way--the victims don't know they're getting victimized.  Ignorance dooms democracy--which is imperfect under the best of circumstances.

        Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. John Kenneth Galbraith .

        by melvynny on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 03:09:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I hope Moral Mondays is a hint that the backlash (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          HappyinNM, mwm341, JVolvo

          is coming.  I believe because I watched extremism in Arizona push too far.  Rumors about a connection between the president of the state senate and a well-known  avowed neo-Nazi were denied and finally admitted which led to a successful recall. Six months later, May 2012, the neo-Nazi shot four people and then himself at his home.  In November 2012 election, the state's nine seats in the House were filled with 5 Democrats and 4 Republicans.  After that, Governor Bruja changed her mind about the expansion of Medicaid that the Affordable Care Act makes possible.  She stood up to the state legislature too when it tried to block the Medicaid expansion and vetoed every single bill they passed until they relented. It's almost like things have to get really bad before people agitate for a correction.  I'm not in North Carolina but from what I've heard I was hoping that it reached a turning point.

          There is no existence without doubt.

          by Mark Lippman on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 03:57:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  won't happen soon (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            HappyinNM, mwm341, JVolvo, fleisch

            The schools were eviscerated--teachers and supervisors bitched--PTAs complained--the Republicans doubled down.  Most of my neighbors--deliberately unaware--think it's about time.  The new voting laws are obscene--even high schoolers are being dissuaded to register.  These aren't tea baggers--these are Confederate operatives--sad to say--many still fly the stars and bars.  Racism is king for many here.  We're gonna have to move.  

            Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. John Kenneth Galbraith .

            by melvynny on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 04:08:01 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Man! Just reading about a secessionist group (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              melvynny, HappyinNM, fleisch

              meeting in Raleigh today.  Says the event is co-sponsored by Republican candidate for US Senator Greg Brannon who was recently endorsed by Rand Paul.  

              There is no existence without doubt.

              by Mark Lippman on Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 05:23:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  What happened in 2012 may be a hopeful sign (0+ / 0-)

              for you in NC. When people realized that there was a group who didn't want them to vote (voter ID's, etc), they made it a point to vote. Even if they had to stand in line all day.

              •  won't happen now (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                fleisch

                They've cut out a whole week of early voting--and sunday voting.  With Obama on the ticket, many African Americans were super motivated--not gonna happen again.  White folk don't always vote in their self interest--neither do black folk.

                Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. John Kenneth Galbraith .

                by melvynny on Sat Oct 19, 2013 at 07:11:21 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  More African-Americans voted in 2012 than in (0+ / 0-)

                  2008. With a history of being deprived of the vote, their vote in 2012 was more reflective of the phenomenon I stated than a vote for the President. If they have to do "souls to the polls" on another day, they will. Art Pope's money can only do so much. The concept of one person, one vote is very strong in this country, including NC. And there's always the Attorney General and his DOJ.

  •  where do these republicans get these numbers? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mark Lippman

    I swear every time I hear them the deficit" number is more and more ridiuclously wrong.

    "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Riane Eisler

    by noofsh on Sat Oct 19, 2013 at 05:57:41 AM PDT

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