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Supporter Mark Renner smokes at a rally for Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio in Fountain Hills, Arizona April 28, 2012. Arpaio, who styles himself as
Why oh why won't Latinos vote for this guy's party?
Once upon a time, Republicans looked at Census Bureau numbers and realized, "Oh shit, we're f'd!" if they didn't do something to arrest their decline among the nation's fastest growing demographics—Latinos and Asians. The gender gap with women was a problem too, as was their inability to connect with young voters.

But connecting with women is hard! You have to stop trying to shove transvaginal probes into them. And young people? Forget it! That would require things like "stop hating gays" and "stop being racist" and "stop being Republican". No shot there.

But Latinos? Why, conservatives convinced themselves they were naturally one of them because Latinos love their families, are Catholic, and work hard, except when they're being lazy Mexicans. Of course, no one else loves their families or work, and don't tell them about the new Pope, but in any case, the solution there was supposedly easy: pass comprehensive immigration reform. And by all indications, there is majority House support for the Senate's immigration reform bill. There might even be majority support within the GOP caucus itself!

But as we know, John Boehner abdicated his gavel to Ted Cruz and his merry band of nihilist terrorists. And they're still shedding tears over their inability to destroy the world economy. So, you know, f' you immigrants!

Other prominent immigration supporters like Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) have also backed off any deal, saying the Obama administration has “undermined” negotiations by not defunding his signature health care law. Rep. Raul Labrador (R-Idaho) went further, saying Obama is trying to “destroy the Republican Party” and that GOP leaders would be “crazy” to enter into talks with Obama.
Who knew that political parties were in the business of lending their opponents a helping hand? And why, immigration reform was sailing through the House until Obama undermined all those efforts with his unreasonable efforts to prevent Republicans from undermining a properly passed Constitutional law!

And there's even more whining!

“After Obama poisoned the well in the fiscal showdown and [House Minority Leader Nancy] Pelosi now is actively trying to use immigration as a political weapon, the chances for substantive reforms, unfortunately, seem all but gone,” said one GOP operative involved in the conservative pro-immigration movement.
Poisoned the well, ha ha ha! Why didn't the president let a tiny minority of the House, backed by a tiny minority of the American people, undermine a law outside of the legislative process? Hate to say it GOP operative too chickenshit to speak on the record—immigration is a political weapon. It's a big-ass honkin' political weapon. It's fucking huge. But once again, it's only a weapon because Republicans made it one. Just like the shutdown, had Republicans just shut the f' up and passed the routine continuing budget resolutions and debt ceiling increases, they'd be looking ... not great, but not as bad as today. Similarly, had Republicans passed immigration reform without histrionics, their standing with Latinos wouldn't be as rock-bottom as it is today.

But his tea party-dominated Republican Party has an uncanny ability to weaponize the most mundane and non-controversial matters (immigration reform is wildly popular with all Americans), and then point that weapon at their face.

So dear GOP, you want to disarm that weapon poised to blow up on your face? Just put it down. It's that simple. Pass immigration reform, and no Democrat will be able to use your intransigence against you in future elections. The choice is yours.

Originally posted to kos on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 09:58 AM PDT.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  hard to poison a well when the GOP put a lid on it (19+ / 0-)

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013

    by annieli on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 10:04:56 AM PDT

    •  OT/ Fukushima hit by 7.3 earthquake (5+ / 0-)

      Japan Hit By 7.3-Magnitude Earthquake Off Fukushima Prefecture Coast, Tsunami Advisory Issued

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

      Nuclear Reactor = Dirty Bomb

      by olo on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 10:58:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  If anyone "poisoned the well"... (8+ / 0-)

      It was the G-O-TEA by dumping so much arsenic into it!

    •  Here's the GOP's effort to fix itself (7+ / 0-)
      GOP's 'Growth and Opportunity Project' Report on 2012 Election & what went wrong, sure to be ignored
      America is changing demographically, and unless Republicans are able to grow our appeal the way GOP governors have done, the changes tilt the playing field even more in the Democratic direction. In 1980, exit polls tell us that the electorate was 88 percent white. In 2012, it was 72 percent white. Hispanics made up 7 percent of the electorate in 2000, 8 percent in 2004, 9 percent in 2008 and 10 percent in 2012.
      According to the Pew Hispanic Center, in 2050, whites will be 47 percent
      of the country while Hispanics will grow to 29 percent and Asians to 9 percent.

      If we want ethnic minority voters to support Republicans, we have to engage them and show our sincerity.

      Instead Republicans in congress are very likely to dismiss these ominous demographic trends, and instead show minorities their insincerity and rigidity by rejecting Immigration Reform. Why? Out of the fear of enfranchising millions of longtime undocumented Hispanic residents and risking them voting for the more inclusive Democrats.

      "If Wall Street paid a tax on every “game” they run, we would get enough revenue to run the government on." ~ Will Rogers

      by Lefty Coaster on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 11:23:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Very disappointed that we can't have an (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      alwaysquestion, ivorybill

      intelligent discussion about Comprehensive Immigration Reform without so many ignorant and borderline hateful anti immigrant comments here.
      Almost every (non right wing) economists say that immigration reform will create jobs and would be good for the American economy. The unions support immigration reform.
      Newly legalized immigrants would buy houses, buy cars, get better jobs and be able to provide for their families. That is America. Saying that immigrants steal jobs and illegals are illegal sounds so Republican.
      Those undocumented residents are here with their families and deserve immigration reform now.
      Lets have an intelligent discussion rather than a Republican sounding discussion.
      Lets have a discussion that sounds like a Democratic discussion.

      •  wtf are you talking about? (4+ / 0-)

        who here on this site, except for maybe the rare troll, is seriously using that type of Republican language?  No one, but maybe you're just another one of those tedious people who has to find offense where none exists, along with false equivalence.  

        You do realize that kos is mocking the guy in that picture, not endorsing his message?  Find some other real examples to support your claim, otherwise stop your phoney whining.  

      •  This is a great place to have an (0+ / 0-)

        intelligent discussion about immigration reform.  
        So we should ignore the current laws about immigration?    Then provide "permanent residence" to everyone who applies, then create new laws that may or may not be followed in the future?

        What percentage of these new Americans have a higher degree or skill set to get a high paying job?

        What percentage of these new Americans will be on some government assistance?

        If the American system is strong enough to absorb 11 million new people, why do we currently have more people on food stamps than full time workers?

        If it was so easy to "get better jobs" then we would not have articles like this here : Walmart pay scale

        My solutions:
        Stream line the immigration process.  Put it on a web site just like the Affordable Health Care site.  Enforce the e-Verify right now.  Stream line the Guest Worker Program with a web site.
        Enforce the current laws to the letter.  Let the individual States determine if they want to modify laws to reflect the will of the residents of that State.

      •  agree (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        immigradvocate

        There is a very troubling underlying idea that immigrants just steal jobs.  I tend to make fun of it by saying that too many Americans are afraid that they cannot compete.  There are comments in this thread that equate 'illegals' with wage stealing.

        The reason that it is so hard to pass immigration reform, the reason that the dream act did not pass in a senate of 59 caucusing as democrats, the reason that Texas is still red, is because too many progressives are as scared as Hispanics as conservatives.  Too many progressives live in areas where 4 out 5 people are white non-hispanic.  Too many progressives see their cushy life with not too much work, and wonder if they have the ability to do what it takes to maintain that life while still not working very hard.

  •  It is really hard (24+ / 0-)

    to do something that makes sense and simultaneously pander to the frothing-at-the-mouth base you have done a ton of work to cultivate for decades.

    The Republicans at the top must feel like Dr. Frankenstein right about now. They created a monster and have now lost complete control of it.

  •  More Cheaper Labor!!! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alwaysquestion, KittyPawFive

    Pass immigration reform

    25% youth unemployment? We can do better.

    Whatever S744 does Markos, I guarantee you it isn't going to 'reform' anything.

    I won't be coming home tonight, my generation will put it right - Genesis 9:3

    by superscalar on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 10:09:55 AM PDT

  •  Please proceed, GOP (8+ / 0-)

    Sometimes you just gotta get outta their way.

    The road to excess leads to the palace of Wisdom, I must not have excessed enough

    by JenS on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 10:22:53 AM PDT

    •  Make their predictions come true! (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      eps62, alwaysquestion, cocinero, JenS

      Rep. Raul Labrador (R-Idaho) went further, saying Obama is trying to “destroy the Republican Party”

      If Marco Rubio withdraws his support from the bipartisan immigration bill, fine. If John McCain, Lindsey Graham and Jeff Flake pull out, that’s OK, too.

      No bipartisan bill? No problem!
      Redraft the bill the way the Democratic Party believes it should be formulated. First and foremost: Give the "Pathway to Citizenship" a far shorter timeframe -- say three years.

      Let the Senate pass the bill.
      Send the bill over to the House.

      Let Republican Senators and Congressmen record their NO votes.

      Then pass the "bipartisan" bill in the Senate.
      Send that, too, over to the House.

      Let the GOP show every voter, loud and clear, that they oppose a reasonable immigration bill.

      (Oh, there might be some interesting collateral damage from the civil war in the Republican Party, as Tea Party extremists fight it out with more rational politicians, but that’s good entertainment and more than OK.)

      .
      Then the Republican Party can kiss the Latino vote goodbye in 2014, and forever thereafter! Yes, President Obama, you devil you -- what a way to destroy the Republican Party!
      .

      “The meaning of life is to find it.”

      by ArcticStones on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 11:31:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The GOP House won't vote on it (5+ / 0-)

        That's the problem.  Boehner won't bring up any version of the bill for a vote, even the one the Senate has already  passed.  

         The lack of a vote is not very exciting to the media, but this needs to be hammered at every day.

        •  Blocking it is the same as voting NO (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Be Skeptical

          ...provided our Democratic representatives and the President make that clear, and keep hammering away at that truth. That’s the way to control the narrative.

          After the government was reopened, Democratic politicians could and should have highlighted the $ 24 billion in damages done -- and taken the GOP to task for that.

          They didn’t.

          So now it’s all about Obamacare.
          But on that topic, too, there is lots to be said, which is not being said loudly and intelligently enough.

          For far too long, the GOP has set the narrative. In my opinion, if the Democratic Party wants to launch an offense in 2014, that has to change -- and it has to start now.

          “The meaning of life is to find it.”

          by ArcticStones on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 12:56:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  As a weapon? republicans should be careful about (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        catilinus

        What they wish.
        If The president wanted to use this a a political weapon, the only thing he need to do is use a executive order to grant REAL AMNESTY to almost every undocumented worker currently living in the U.S. Then  while the republcans are attacking him for doing that, Obama should make the case to the hispanic community that if the republicans win they are going not only to make them illegals again, but they are going to push an Arizona style law across the nation, which they are surely going to threat.
        If something is going to take all the hispanics to the voting polls that is this scenario.
        Cynical? Maybe...this is a political weapon of mass destruction.

  •  President Obama said it so well the other day. (13+ / 0-)

    "In Washington, there's the belief that if there's something President Obama is for, then that must mean (amongst Republicans) that they must be against it."  - approximate quote from memory.

    These Republicans hate him so much, hate negotiation and compromise so much, hate losing what little grip on power they feel they have, they just cannot bring themselves to consider there might be a benefit to them from releasing their death grip on their current ideas and reaching for a new idea.  I see them like those who would stay in a sinking lifeboat rather than reach for the Coast Guard ladder dropped to them from a helicopter in a tempestuous storm.  They are going to perish in spite of all the help offered to them.  And I really am not upset about that.

  •  Let "those people" in? (6+ / 0-)

    There's a simple reason why Congressional Republicans oppose immigration reform: their base by and large doesn't like people who are different from themselves, and that includes brown people.  It's what Hofstadter called "status politics": the Tea Partiers who dominate the Republican base (and therefore determine primary election outcomes) see "their"  country slipping away because of immigration and other social change, and they want it back.   Congressional Republicans, especially in the House, respond to that kind of sentiment.  

    CF. my blog posting today at www.tony-greco.com.

    Author, Chomsky's Challenge to American Power www.tony-greco.com

    by Tony Greco on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 10:49:40 AM PDT

  •  Let us praise Digby's "The Art of the Hissy Fit" (4+ / 0-)

    This 2007 classic is one of best political essays I have ever read: http://v.gd/...

    "All politics is national."

    by Auriandra on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 10:51:02 AM PDT

  •  S744 (4+ / 0-)

    Rubio's Senate immigration bill is so bad that it isn't really "reform." I'd rather take back the House and get a real immigration reform law. I mean 15-20 years to become a citizen? E-verify with its use against union organizing? MORE border security? A guest worker program with exploitive wages and labor practices and constantly shipped back before one can qualify to stay longer and get in line for citizenship? No real expansion of LEGAL immigration, especially in Latin America and Africa?
    Tighter rules on refugees?

    Fines and back taxes at such  high rates (when corporations are constantly given "tax holidays" to repatriate offshore hoards) that any undocumented worker who comes out of the shadows has to instantly go on welfare?

    S744 is TERRIBLE law.  

    If it passes this year, we have to hope some things are corrected in committee or that we can fix the law after regaining both chambers. And pretend the shit sandwich is delicious.

    But if it fails. Obama should announce at next year's SOTU that he is forced to take unilateral action: By Exec. Order, he is ending all deportations, granting amnesty--REAL amnesty to all undocumented immigrants who register with INS within 9 months, cutting ICE's budget, and instituting orders to protect immigrant labor, youth, etc.  And announce that these immigrants will pay no fines and can become citizens within 8 years, 5 if sponsored by a relative and gainfully employed and paying all taxes.

    BAM!

    "I was not born for myself alone, but for my neighbor as well as myself."--Richard Overton, leader of the Levellers, a17th C. movement for democracy and equality during the English Civil War.

    by SouthernLeveller on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 10:51:22 AM PDT

    •  Well, there is that! CAN he do all those things? n (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      alwaysquestion, cocinero

      "The poor can never be made to suffer enough." Jimmy Breslin

      by merrywidow on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 11:11:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  There Are No Requirements (0+ / 0-)

      Fines and back taxes

      To 'pay back taxes' in S744. In fact, the word 'tax' is only used ten times in the entire document.

      There is no requirement to 'learn english' or 'go to the back of the line' either

      Even if there was a requirement to 'pay back taxes' in S744, Wall Street Chucky Shumer would make sure that any requirement was eviscerated after any such bill was passed.

      Just like Wall Street Chucky did in 1987 after the 1986 IRCA was passed.

      I won't be coming home tonight, my generation will put it right - Genesis 9:3

      by superscalar on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 12:24:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Running down the clock to 2014, 2016. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    atdnext, ssgbryan, eps62, PorridgeGun, cocinero

    They are running down the clock, wasted daily on yet another abolish the ACA bill.  They can't afford to take a position on any other major issue.  Whatever side they come down on, they will burn bridges, which they can't afford.  They will do ANYTHING but vote.

    I think they will keep this do nothing tactic all the way through the 2014 elections and see what that nets them.  Even though the latest polls say Dems could possibly take the House back, they are holding their bets that the shutdown will be too far in the rearview mirror for anyone to care about.  Plus they will manufacture another outrage in time for elections.

    1. What does it mean? 2. And then what?

    by alwaysquestion on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 10:54:54 AM PDT

    •  Stop, Block, and Quit isn't the way we roll. (4+ / 0-)

      Good bye GOP

      _____

      Only gun owners can control their guns and they say oopsie way too much. I lost it, I forgot it, it just went off. Support Gun Kill Speed Limits and Gun Ownership Speed Limits.

      by 88kathy on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 10:57:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I always had a gnawing feeling... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ssgbryan, alwaysquestion, eps62

      That the House G-O-TEA would pull every stop imaginable to prevent any sort of progress on jobs bills, immigration reform, gun safety, or anything else. After all, they have to expose all those "OBAMA SCANDALZZZ!!!" and stop the nation from paying its bills (hence another "debt ceiling crisis" and government shutdown). They must have figured early on that all this obstruction would make Obama "look weak" while also succeeding in conjuring up the perfect excuses for punting on CIR & GVP. ("Oh, we don't have time for that... We have to get our fiscal house in order!")

      But instead, this seems to be backfiring on Republicans. This is why I'm feeling more confident about 2014. People are just getting sick & tired of the dysfunctional Congress... And they know the G-O-TEA is to blame for it.

  •  Ben Gazzara! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    this just in, alwaysquestion, eps62

    There, I said it.

    The Republican brand: "Consequences, schmonsequences, as long as I'm rich"

    by D in Northern Virginia on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 10:57:02 AM PDT

  •  I always ask, "Have you sped or tailgated?" (9+ / 0-)

    If so, then "You're an illegal!"

    After all, the argument these yahoos screech is, "Those people broke the law." Indeed, by crossing the border without a visa, they did break the law. Now, let's establish that by exceeding the posted speed limit, I have broken the law, too. Am I "an illegal?" Have I exceeded the posted speed limit more or fewer times than that person has entered the U.S. without a visa?

    If we are speaking felony v. misdemeanor, then we're starting to finally have a conversation. (What is felonious about the entry? Shall we speak of the legislative history?)

    Everyone's innocent of some crime.

    by The Geogre on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 10:59:29 AM PDT

    •  Did you ever remove a mattress tag? (5+ / 0-)

      The Republican brand: "Consequences, schmonsequences, as long as I'm rich"

      by D in Northern Virginia on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 11:01:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  What About When I Fraudulently Sign (3+ / 0-)

      An I9 Form stating that I am legally entitled to work in the U.S.? Is that 'just like speeding'?

      How about when I buy a fraudulent or stolen passport, social security card, or driver's license, is this 'just like speeding' too?

      Or how about when I go to the DMV, or the insurance agency, with one or more fraudulent or stolen documents and use those documents to obtain a driver's license? Is this 'just like speeding' too.

      I can smell the stink of your moral relativism from here.

      I won't be coming home tonight, my generation will put it right - Genesis 9:3

      by superscalar on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 11:11:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What about when... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        alwaysquestion, cocinero

        European colonists illegally invaded this continent and stole land that belonged to the Native Americans? Seriously, we're all descendents of "illegals" (except for those here who are Native Americans).

        Since it's too difficult for all of us to migrate back to Europe, Africa, or Asia, it probably makes more sense to fix our broken immigration system so that American families can stay together and all workers can be afforded legal protections.

        •  Actually The Spanish 'Invaded' (0+ / 0-)

          European colonists illegally invaded this continent

          Before the Europeans, and unless I am mistaken, there weren't any immigration laws when that occurred, not to mention that there was no federal government that stated that not only were going to pass so-called 'free trade' agreements like NAFTA, but that I was going to end up on the hook for paying the bill.

          fix our broken immigration system

          Exacly WHAT is 'broken' about the U.S. immigration system? 62% of all illegal immigrants are from Mexico, at the same time that Mexico has dominated the U.S. legal immigration since the 1986 IRCA. In fact in absolute terms legal immigration into the U.S. is higher than it has ever been, all of the so-call 'anti-immigrant fervor' notwithstanding.

          I won't be coming home tonight, my generation will put it right - Genesis 9:3

          by superscalar on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 11:33:47 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  You made your point. California (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Be Skeptical

        is in a different position than the rest of the nation, for the most part.  School systems are strained as well as other.  There is no arguing that point.  You live in California and are frustrated with people refusing to acknowledge what your state is experiencing, yes?

        But, how would you fix it?

        1. What does it mean? 2. And then what?

        by alwaysquestion on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 11:37:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  each of those acts is an instance of a crime (3+ / 0-)

        If every year you had to sign a statement swearing that you never drove above the speed limit and always used your turn signal on penalty of losing your license, what would you do?

        The crimes you list boil down to living in the country, working productively, and paying taxes.  Some people (myself included) have a hard time seeing those things as criminal acts.

        •  So, It Should Be A Crime (0+ / 0-)

          To sell fraudulent or stolen documents, but it shouldn't be a crime to buy them?

          I won't be coming home tonight, my generation will put it right - Genesis 9:3

          by superscalar on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 11:46:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  if you don't want to understand then you wont (3+ / 0-)

            People who are living in this country peacefully, who want to be productive members of our community and are willing to work should be able to do so without having to buy fraudulent or stolen documents.

            If the goal is to have a healthy and productive community, our laws should not compel people to commit crimes in order to be productive members of our society.

            If the goal is to marginalize and criminalize people and create an permanent underclass, then our laws are doing a bang-up job.

            •  You Assume The Predicate (0+ / 0-)

              The 'people' we are discussing either entered the country illegally, or they overstayed a legally obtained visa after having attested that they would leave the country when that visa expired.

              If these 'people' had not entered the country illegally or overstayed a visa, they wouldn't have to commit crimes in order to stay in the country to begin with.

              If the goal is to have a healthy and productive community

              And one of the founding tenets of a democracy, and one of the prerequisites to a 'healthy and productive community' is having some respect for the rule of law.

              Otherwise these 'people' that you speak of are doing nothing more than helping to create the same conditions as those which exist in whatever third world hell hole that they left.

              If the goal is to marginalize and criminalize people

              You have two choices here. Either eliminate any administrative recourse for having broken U.S. immigration law, or enforce that law.

              In other words, you either have immigration law or you don't.

              I won't be coming home tonight, my generation will put it right - Genesis 9:3

              by superscalar on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 12:12:18 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  please refer to the subject of my last reply (nt) (0+ / 0-)
              •  You know, whenever some idiot (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                The Geogre

                tells me I have two choices, I start looking for a third.

                The choice is not to "eliminate any administrative recourse for having broken immigration law, or to enforce that law."

                Prosecutors and government agencies use discretion all the time. Should the federal government immediately raid some small time pot smoker in Seattle because Washington State has decriminalized marijuana use? Or should the federal government tread lightly in jurisdictions that have decided to decriminalize marijuana? I think you can see where I am going with that.

                Per your example, I know of an actual case. ICE raided O'Hare Airport in the aftermath of 9/11 and rounded up everyone working without legal authorization. The FBI initially decided to charge many of the undocumented food service workers and cleaners with having obtained fraudulent IDs. The US Attorney (Patrick Fitzgerald at the time) realized that was an insane use of resources and didn't waste his time and our money on prosecuting every 60 year old cleaning lady for using a made up social security number.  It had nothing to do with some existential crossroads, leading to lawlessness or upholding the law. It had to do with common sense, and the fact that deportation was way too severe a penalty for most of the people caught up in the raid in the first place.

                And now, with the Dreamers?  The President used his discretion to tell ICE to issue deferred removal for kids who grew up here and have clean records, and are as American or more than you or I.  Does he have the power to direct US law enforcement agencies to defer removal, without an act of Congress? It seems he does; not even the GOP is contesting it, and there's no lawsuit that is in teh works to compel the President to deport the Dreamers.  So much for your "enforce every single law in all cases all the time right now" kind of silly rhetoric.  

                “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

                by ivorybill on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 01:20:59 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  The executive branch (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  ivorybill

                  The branch that executes laws is different from the judicial and the legislative. Remember how, in 2009, we heard how Obama was "refusing to protect our borders," despite deporting twice as many people as Bush? Hence Arizona's SB 1070, which attempted to make a U.S. state in charge of the U.S. border when someone in that state didn't like the executive branch (and hence even the Roberts court slapping them down).

                  Everyone's innocent of some crime.

                  by The Geogre on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 01:54:58 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  guess you're one of the few (0+ / 0-)

            that I mentioned above, indistinguishable from the usual teabagger anti-immigrant crowd.  
            Just like the handful of gun nuts that crawl out like clockwork when there's an article on that issue.  

      •  Oh, goodie! (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        eps62, ivorybill

        So, let's do talk about these things, by all means!

        That I-9 is just like speeding. The principle that you are going to eventually invoke on speeding (I'll save you the time) is "salutary neglect." An employer wishes the lowest cost labor and contracts for it, without interest in nation of origin, as the nation of origin -- just like the religion or diet -- of the individual is not part of the labor contract. The laborer and employer are just like the speeder engaged in salutary neglect. That Congress keeps making more and more ways to ruin the lives of those who are involved is neither here nor there at this level.

        Now, those stolen passports and social security cards. . . number in the millions? Tens of millions? Gazillions? You know for a fact, I presume, that this is commonplace. Are "they" "invading?"

        I can smell the stink of your nativism from the next county. I'm a moral absolutist. You, however, appear to be that brand of fool who conflates ethics with morality and believes that civil laws and the Good are identical.

        My ancestors immigrated in the 1630's, so perhaps I'm not a real American enough. When my great great great great grandfather fought in the Revolutionary War, one of the grievances against King George III was that the Crown was not allowing immigrants to enter the country freely.

        Everyone's innocent of some crime.

        by The Geogre on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 12:25:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You can smell the stink of moral relativism? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        The Geogre

        Funny, I was just thinking that I could "smell the stink" of your moral absolutism from here.

        Did you realize that asylum law routinely disregards the use of fraudulent documents used by persons fleeing persecution?  If you need to escape a repressive regime, and you buy a black market passport to do it, pretty much any sane government in the world gives you a pass.  Varian Fry with the International Rescue Committee set up a printing shop in Marseilles in WWII to print fake passports to help people escape the Nazis.  There is a long and honorable tradition of using (and accepting) fake documents in cases of political persecution.

        But that may seem like a marginal case.  More to the point, undocumented immigrants can sign up for a tax id and pay social security and income taxes using that id... many of them do.  It's legal; it's not stealing someone's identity as you allege.  

        Don't have the time or energy to rebut your other points right now, this should suffice for now.  Others will, no doubt.

        “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

        by ivorybill on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 01:27:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  People are not "Illegal". Period. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite, The Geogre, ivorybill, cocinero

      Saying that dehumanizes them.
      And being undocumented is not a crime.

      •  Amen! (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ivorybill, cocinero

        We must fight words like this. "Illegal" is now so commonly used as to slip by on network news. "Unborn" does the same. "Climate change" is finally losing ground.

        All of these are political coinages, and each is attempting a dirty trick.

        Everyone's innocent of some crime.

        by The Geogre on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 12:31:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  That photo (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Roadbed Guy, alwaysquestion

    really bothers me.

    Stirring up multiple childhood fears for me.

    Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

    by a gilas girl on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 11:01:13 AM PDT

  •  Thx 1138 (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hyperstation, alwaysquestion

    While we're in the mood to Thx people

    I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

    by JML9999 on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 11:03:12 AM PDT

  •  The House Is In Freefall And They Can't Get Up (5+ / 0-)

    "Don't Let Them Catch You With Your Eyes Closed"

    by rssrai on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 11:03:42 AM PDT

  •  Let 'em squeal loud! (5+ / 0-)

    Get them all over the media loudly and repeatedly denouncing immigrants and immigration reform.

    Let's face it, the more air time they get on this the more of them will make wildly inappropriate racist statements and the more we turn out the base.

    Please proceed, Republicans.

    "Who is John Galt?" A two dimensional character in a third rate novel.

    by Inventor on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 11:04:40 AM PDT

  •  So, FU immigrants cuz they haz a sad? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alwaysquestion, cocinero

    Meany Obama, wouldnt let us destroy the world economy so we are taking our ball and going home

    is that about it?

    "The poor can never be made to suffer enough." Jimmy Breslin

    by merrywidow on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 11:07:01 AM PDT

  •  New Pope could help the Dems more with (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    immigradvocate, alwaysquestion

    Hispanics...funny, abortion and gay marriage are not the only thing that makes you a Catholic voter anymore, now it's income equality and less greed!!

    "The poor can never be made to suffer enough." Jimmy Breslin

    by merrywidow on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 11:08:38 AM PDT

    •  Catholic Voting Guide (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      alwaysquestion, eps62, merrywidow

      It's a funny read.  There are 5 "non-negotiables".  A Catholic voter can't vote for any candidate who espouses a position in conflict with one of these.  They are abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research, human cloning, and gay marriage.  Genocide?  Knock yourself out!  Pedophilia?  No problem!  Torture?  Murder?  Assault?  Those Catholics are a scream.

      •  this is changing (0+ / 0-)

        Most Catholics pay no attention to that Catholic voting guide; I have hopes that new leadership will start to shift away from that and toward social justice.

        “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

        by ivorybill on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 01:09:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Not true (0+ / 0-)

        link?

        If you are referring to "Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship" from the US Catholic Bishops it contains statements like this:

        Catholic teaching about the dignity of life calls us to oppose torture, unjust war, and the use of the death penalty; to prevent genocide and attacks against noncombatants; to oppose racism; and to overcome poverty and suffering.
        Genocide, torture, and the direct and intentional targeting of noncombatants in war or terrorist attacks are always wrong.
        Affordable and accessible health care is an essential safeguard of human life and a fundamental human right.
        Promoting moral responsibility and effective responses to violent crime, curbing violence in media, supporting reasonable restrictions on access to assault weapons and handguns, and opposing the use of the death penalty are particularly important in light of a growing “culture of violence.”
        It is important for our society to continue to combat discrimination based on race, religion, sex, ethnicity, disabling condition, or age, as these are grave injustices and affronts to human dignity. Where the effects of past discrimination persist, society has the obligation to take positive steps to overcome the legacy of injustice, including vigorous action to remove barriers to education and equal employment for women and minorities.
        A first priority for agriculture policy should be food security for all. Because no one should face hunger in a land of plenty, Food Stamps, the Special Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC), and other nutrition programs need to be strong and effective.
        Most of it is pretty progressive. Have a look.

        Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship

    •  Catholic Bishops support immigration reform. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Be Skeptical
      Bishop R. Walker Nickless of the Sioux City Diocese is encouraging priests in the 111 parishes he leads to use the pulpit and church newsletters to advocate a path to legalized, earned citizenship for undocumented immigrants. link (8/28/13)
      Bishop Nickless is Steve King's bishop. (King is a Catholic.)
      Sioux City Diocese Bishop R. Walker Nickless says remarks U.S. Rep. Steve King, R-Kiron, recently made about Latino immigrants are "disappointing" and detract from the "dignity" of human beings. link
  •  When Did The Editorial Policy Change? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alwaysquestion

    Do we no longer say "fuck" on the front page?  When did that happen?

  •  the dodo bird has nothing on the teanuts. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alwaysquestion

    And luckily, they are taking the entire goper party with them!

    Earth: Mostly harmless ~ The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (revised entry)

    by yawnimawke on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 11:12:36 AM PDT

  •  Just remember, it's a HISSY FIT, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alwaysquestion, eps62

    NOT a conniptionfit!
    Yes, there IS a damn difference!  :)

  •  Time to keep on the full court press (4+ / 0-)

    If it doesn't happen this fall, it's hopeless during the 2014 election year.  Immigration reform seems to make some House Democrats uncomfortable too, but now is the time to take advantage of the GOP's subterranean ratings and suicidal tendencies.  

  •  GOP Strategy (5+ / 0-)

    The GOP election strategy is clear.  They have decided - again and again - that the issue is that they are not being sufficiently draconian and conservative.  They continue to lurch to the right and are taking actions to create a coalition of the like-minded as well as gaming the system to amplify the power of this dwindling minority.  In the former strategy, this is merely improving the Karl Rove approach of stitching together pockets of motivated, likely-to-turn-out voters from blocs that support the policy underpinnings of hardcore conservatism.  This includes the Christian conservatives, cultural conservatives, small government hawks, pro-military/strong US adherents and the angry old white man constituency (and their descendants) who fondly remember Eisenhower.  In the latter strategy, this includes voter ID laws to suppress or at least create obstacles for likely-Democratic voters, powerful gerrymandering to lock in GOP votes for at least a generation and likely soon-to-be-enacted electoral college reform to reshape the vote tally of the electoral college to adhere more closely to the representation in the House rather than, say, the popular vote.

  •  So what is their excuse? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alwaysquestion, eps62, cocinero

    They can't even talk about immigration now because

    Obama poisoned the well in the fiscal showdown
    So what is their excuse for not taking up the Senate bill for the five months they studiously ignored it before the fiscal showdown?

    The reason they were the good old days: we were neither good nor old.

    by carolita on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 11:22:35 AM PDT

  •  Kos thank you (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alwaysquestion, cocinero

    You are helping to make America a better place, one post at a time.  Thanks!

  •  Would Rather Slit Their Wrists Than Act (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alwaysquestion, eps62

    They have no acceptable options. Every choice is a loser for them.  There is zero chance that anything resembling immigration reform will pass in the next  year. Even if by some miracle, I am wrong and Republicans wised up just long enough to pass something they could call immigration reform, even if its somewhat meaningful, after all the hate and vitriol its too late to make a legitimate short term reach for that part of the electorate they have done so much to alienate. That will take a generation and Republicans will likely be extinct by then. Even if they managed to pick up a small slice of that electoral pie, every day that passes the unstoppable demographic tide grows against Republicans and every time they open their mouths, Dems pick up new converts. No way out. I just fear they will not only slit their own wrists, but try to take the rest of America down with them so they can die with a smug smile of satisfaction on their faces. I hate to think the worst of them, but haven't they earned it and would you really put it past some of them?

    Patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings. Steal a little and they throw you in jail. Steal a lot and they make you king.... Dylan

    by bywaterbob on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 11:27:49 AM PDT

  •  and their real agenda is to make (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, alwaysquestion, eps62

    all voting dems illegal aliens when and if they decide to secede from the union because we would overthrow them in the  seceded states as well.  Just a thought I am sure they have given.

    Good post Kos.

    We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

    by Vetwife on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 11:31:59 AM PDT

  •  Some just wanted to kill the messenger. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ivorybill, immigradvocate
    Once upon a time, Republicans looked at Census Bureau numbers and realized, "Oh shit, we're f'd!" if they didn't do something to arrest their decline among the nation's fastest growing demographics—Latinos and Asians.
    In 2007-08, Republicans refused to provide funding to properly prepare for the 2010 census. This caused some glitches with conducting the census in 2009 (address canvassing) and 2010. In 2009, Michele Bachmann was telling people to boycott the census.

    If you just suppress the evidence, the problem goes away.

    •  Or perhaps (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cocinero, immigradvocate

      they have an odd relationship with time.  They are thinking about a two or four year horizon and assume that some "Latino voter outreach" and some new messaging strategy will work when they absolutely, finally, definitively need Latino voters in Texas, for example.

      In addition to an astounding ability to deny statistics and reality, I'd say the Republicans are also characterized by this strange time-blindness. On the one hand, they have a foreshortened sense of the future, and on the other, they have a magical sense of the past.  Both seem to be flexible, open to making it up as they go along.

      But you are right - the anti-rational, anti-science conspiratorial nutjobs like Bachmann wanted to undermine the census.  

      “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

      by ivorybill on Fri Oct 25, 2013 at 01:39:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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