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False-color mosaic courtesy of NASA’s Cassini spacecraft shows differences in the composition of surface materials around hydrocarbon lakes at Titan, Saturn’s largest moon. Kraken Mare, which is Titan’s largest sea and covers about the same area as Earth’s Caspian Sea and Lake Superior combined, can be seen spreading out with many tendrils on the upper right. The orange areas are thought to be the Titan equivalent of salt flats on Earth. Click image for more info at National Geographic online.
One important fundamental difference in value between a diamond ring and an armful of kindling is man-hours, one takes a lot more to make than the other. But it's conceivable, one day, with sufficient advances in hardware and software, that man-hours will be rendered moot. Which would mean money as we know would cease to matter and that sounds great to those of who don't have much. But there could necessarily be a phase along the way that might not be so appealing:
But a funny thing is going to happen when the machines start taking the jobs of doctors, lawyers, stockbrokers, managers and professors. We're not quite there yet, but the day is coming very soon when many of what had traditionally been considered untouchable jobs will be done just as effectively or better by machines. .. When the machines and the Internet start taking the white collar jobs, look for a moral panic and rethinking of the capitalist bargain that should have started 30 years ago, but didn't because blue collar workers have no political power.
I imagine two things might happen: Many of those displaced white-collar workers will suddenly discover that social safety nets, food and housing assistance, and unemployment payments matter after all, and many politicians paid by the owners of profitable AI run corporations will just as suddenly discover their conservative leaning white-collar suburbanite base was a bunch of lazy, socialist, commie leeches. That's one possible version of the approaching singularity anyway. Another is the AIs might not have anything against us per se, they just might see humans and our artifacts as made of atoms that could be recycled to make something way more useful in a new world order of machine axioms: the opposite of love or respect is not hate or contempt, it's indifference.
  • Grats, it's a baby dino!
  • Imagine if Joe-not-a-Plumber posed as a future doctor instead of a future plumbing mogul, only to have his dream dashed by the cruel Kenyan usurper, and viola, you have not-a-doctor Michael Lofti.
  • The Canadian Arctic is now warmer than ever.
  • Speaking of climate change, turns out that may have caused the collapse of bronze-aged cultures in the Holy Land around the same time the first roots of Old Testament were being laid down.
  • The story of my fellow science blogger who was called an urban whore for not donating her expertise to a well funded, for profit science publisher landed in this follow up post at TPM:
    In a political setting, which demands that people of color pick themselves up by their proverbial bootstraps and overcome institutional racism through hard work and dedication, it is telling that a black woman as intelligent, accomplished and professional as Lee is subject to such offensive ridicule when she refuses to work for free.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 06:00 AM PDT.

Also republished by SciTech.


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Comment Preferences

  •  We're aware (15+ / 0-)

    for most readers this isn't showing on the FP right now. A crack team of ACA developers is on the case.

  •  The singularity divide (14+ / 0-)

    Watching I, Robot I realized that the biggest question is not can a robot, through heavy convolutions of the plot, be induced to kill a human being. The big question is: how does grandma afford that new robot?

    The schism between out economic system and the one implicit in the film is greater than the technological boundaries. In a world of omni-capable automation, what are you going to do that makes it worthwhile to put those tools under your control?

  •  Arctic warming (10+ / 0-)

    The story is getting the deniers over at WUWT and Climate Etc in a tizzy

    The deniers are suggesting that the Arctic vegetation that is re-emerging as the ice peels back may have been dead for a long time, but that doesn't prove that warming episodes have not occurred in the interim of the thousands of years since it was warm enough for them to grow.

    Team Denier really does need convoluted arguments to keep their fantasy going.

  •  Thanks DarkSyde nt (7+ / 0-)

    nosotros no somos estúpidos

    by a2nite on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 06:20:51 AM PDT

  •  When the singularity passes will it (5+ / 0-)

    Slow thinkers - keep right

    by Dave the Wave on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 06:26:37 AM PDT

  •  What happens when robots take the jobs? (9+ / 0-)

    The Swiss are preempting massive unemployment with a guaranteed $2800/month for every citizen.

    In fact, we are already in the early stages of the "no jobs" economy. The robots are giving us leisure time that was stolen from us by the Industrial Revolution. We should be learning how to take advantage of it and get some of that $2800 a month for ourselves. Imagine no more food stamps. No more substandard housing. No more chiseling "health care" megacorps.

    We cannot win a war crime - Dancewater, July 27, 2008

    by unclejohn on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 06:34:02 AM PDT

    •  What makes you think... (7+ / 0-)

      You should live at leisure based on the labor of beings more capable than yourself?

      If any significantly advanced automation is indistinguishable from intelligence, then any subjugation of that intelligence is indistinguishable from slavery.

      (Yeah, I'm just a little dark cloud this morning.)

      •  I (4+ / 0-)

        think I'll just justify my robot slaves as being souless Chinese rooms :)

      •  conservatives (3+ / 0-)

        For Republicans and/or conservatives who's political beliefs are based on economics and not racism, I think that the idea that a post-capitalist society is right a round the corner is the core of their fears.

      •  Labor-saving machines do just that. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        belinda ridgewood, BusyinCA

        France has recognized for some years that technological improvements have been reducing the number of people and hours needed to perform jobs. As a result, they shortened the work week from 39 to 35 hours at the same pay. That has given French workers about 200 hours more leisure time each year. When I worked in France I got an extra 23 days annual leave from this policy.

        As robotics becomes increasingly prevalent in coming decades there will be less and less work to go around. Of course, we could just let people without jobs starve. But the Swiss approach seems a bit more humane.

        I have no qualms about machines doing work. That's what the Industrial Revolution has been about. We'll have to see whether your concern about enslaving machine "intelligence" coheres with the reality of future machines' capabilities.

        You might enjoy Ray Kurzweil's take on the eventuality of truly intelligent machines in The Singularity Is Near.

        We cannot win a war crime - Dancewater, July 27, 2008

        by unclejohn on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 07:54:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Is intelligence equivalent to agency? Personhood? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mark Sumner, BusyinCA

        Really, is that all that matters in such an equation?  Is intelligence the ONLY salient factor in the definition of a "being"?  I think not:  most if not all machines fall so far short of true intelligence that they don't even qualify as smart at all - idiot-savantry is still beyond us...sensitive, of course, that not long ago, 'nice people' were having a similar conversation with themselves about Negroes....

        Having read all the Culture novels (at your instigation, I may say, and thank you), I find Banks' ideas about such things far more interesting than his actual imagining OF them.  My assessment of AI research tells me that we are far closer to creating a cataclysmic failure than we are to creating an artificial free-standing intelligence with agency.  Maybe ten generations.  Maybe three, maybe twenty.  It depends, of course, on the actual goals of the actual efforts made, and whether we have learned by [then] to include externalities in our planning, instead of just billing the powerless for them.

        Hell, having read tales (and seen commercials!) of "the world of the future" since I was a child, all 'work' was supposed to be button-pushing by now;  all those "labor-saving devices,"  all that automation...yet NO ONE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT TECHNO-INDUSTRIAL 'PROGRESS' PUTTING HUMAN BEING OUT OF WORK...much less economies of scale that allow the makers of such things to starve and die at the bottom so their "betters" can have the fruits of their labors essentially for free.

        NO-ONE wanted to even look at questions of who would have those flying cars and those jet-packs, or the bed that tweaked you into perfect health every night while you wanted to consider a society in which the 'wrong' people were no longer being punished economically.

        The two most common responses I recall:  "we'll deal with that when we get to it" and "don't be interrupting the grown-ups, kid".  So I've been wondering about this exactly since the 50s, and we still have only the merest outlines of some pretty bad ideas....which under the current circumstances means the current situation is even more dire than it seems, as we're trying to shore up a world-system that cannot keep from falling:  we're doomed not just to failure in that regard, but guaranteed at least one truly spectacular (and deadly) failure.

        My own modest proposal (ahem) would be to INCORPORATE THE NATION, declare all citizens and ONLY citizens to be share-holders, nationalize education, infrastructure, and industrial production of all types, each citizen gets AN EQUAL SHARE of the GNP.  All land held privately pursuant to "grants" provided by foreign kings before nationhood to be divested and held in common.  All "considerations" offered to private entities to "encourage" the "development" of un- or under-utilized resources. terminated.  ALL matters of national import, including  water & waste treatment/disposal/provision, communications systems, the energy grid, health care provision to be approached and solved from a national perspective.

        At least it would give the conversation a place to start - and really, we should have been having this conversation IN PUBLIC for the last couple of generations, instead of be hind closed doors at the Chamber of Commerce....

        trying to stay alive 'til I reach 65!

        by chmood on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 08:03:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Sci-fi has already covered this. (0+ / 0-)

        I think it was Heinlein, but my memory never was much good.

        Y'see, there's this golden robot.  It lives is a semi-rural area and takes long walks.  The locals hate the robot.  Why?
        Because robots took all their jobs and they have nothing to do but sit around hating robots.

        One day they get into an argument with the robot.  It asks why they're mad at it and then gets a chance to explain the situation from its perspective.

        It has nothing to do either.  If you want a machine to manufacture some kind of product, you build one that does that efficiently--you don't waste resources building a human shaped, high-intelligence machine.

        This one robot is the last of its kind.  It was built only to prove that it could be done.  It has no peers and will live for a verrry long time.

        The only way to call robot labor subjugation would be if you call breeding horses to pull your plow subjugation.

        "Our problem is not that the glass is half empty or half full, but that the 1% claims that it is their glass." ---Stolen from a post on Daily Kos

        by jestbill on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 01:09:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Its all part of their diabolically clever plan (0+ / 0-)

      And a lot less fuss, noise and mess than building a bunch of killer robots that look just like Arnold S.

      "Corporations are people" -- SKYNET

    •  NO MORE LANDLORDS (0+ / 0-)

      trying to stay alive 'til I reach 65!

      by chmood on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 08:04:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The palynological analyses from Kinneret (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DrTerwilliker, enhydra lutris

    are very interesting. These data corroborate clues and hints in the documentary evidence from Hattusa, Ras Shamra/Ugarit, Egypt et cetera related to famine, the pressures on the grain supplies and work-forces sustaining palatial centers as well as the inability of the "imperial" capitals to adapt.

    Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. (Terry Pratchett)

    by angry marmot on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 06:34:47 AM PDT

  •  For the record, I'm Anti-Singularity even though (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Stwriley, KenBee

    by saying that, I put myself on the list of those whom our new robot overlords will smite first.

    Let's go back to E Pluribus Unum

    by hazzcon on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 06:39:34 AM PDT

  •  We're giving up to the non-AI machines anyway (9+ / 0-)

    Next time you talk to a human to make a plane reservation, or fill out a bank application, or order some merchandise, pay attention to what is happening.  The human is listening to you on the phone and typing something into a browser (or an app) on their computer and then reading back the results.  This happens all the time in all kinds of situations.

    What is the role of the human in this case?  A peripheral.  An organic peripheral to translate text to speech and speech to text.  And who is in control?  If something goes off script, the peripheral, er, the human, is powerless to over-ride the system.  The machines are taking over – we are just rolling over and putting them in charge.  But there is no intelligence (artificial or otherwise).

    There is a sci-fi staple of something superior (usually malevolent) to displace humanity.  But what if we just cede humanity to nothing?

  •  The Midas Plague by Frederik Pohl (6+ / 0-)

    Frederik Pohl had a great short story about post-scarcity society. Basically the premise is that in the future there is no scarcity because automation drives production costs to zero.  Your duty as a citizen is not to produce but rather to consume.  The lower you are on the socioeconomic ladder, the more you have to consume.

    It is less far fetched now than it seemed when I did a report on it in high school.  Even now - aren't we all being used as consumers of increasingly large amounts of high-fructose corn syrup?  And on whom does the largest share of that burden fall?

    There is an interesting solution to the problem which I won't give away.  Worth the read - it's just a short story / novella.

    •  Isaac Asimov too (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      in the I Robot series.  Some guy was arrested for having his robots bounce tennis balls against the wall for hours.

      "Our problem is not that the glass is half empty or half full, but that the 1% claims that it is their glass." ---Stolen from a post on Daily Kos

      by jestbill on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 01:20:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  White Privilege # 3106829005: (6+ / 0-)

    No one questions a white person's right to be paid for their hard work in their chosen profession - and no one calls a white person a string of bigoted insults when they insist on pay for such work.

    Notice also how the insult was both racist and misogynist ("urban whore") - there's still an attitude that a woman's work should be done on a volunteer basis, or at least that the little ladies should understand that their contributions just aren't as valuable as a white man's.

    Thank God, the Bob Fosse Kid is here! - Colin Mochrie

    by gardnerhill on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 07:04:46 AM PDT

  •  It grows from an egg to man-sized in a few months? (3+ / 0-)

    How does a cold blooded plant eater DO that?
    For that matter, how could a warm blooded plant eater manage that trick?
    Yeah, I know about birds. Birds grow up fast too. But not to be bigger than you in a few months.

  •  The link to the Michael Lotfi story (8+ / 0-)

    works sporadically.  Here's how the article begins:

    Michael Lotfi was a doctor in training, but no more. He’s quitting. And he blames President Obama, because…Obamacare! After telling us how deep his lifelong commitment to becoming a doctor was, and how deeply in debt he is, he announces that he’s giving up on that precious dream. Why?

    "After quite literally losing my hair from the internal conflict, considering the sunk costs and evaluating different avenues I have decided. I have decided that I believe in the principles of a truly free-market, and I trust the free-market. Because of this deep, internal value system I cannot, with clear conscience, continue on this path. My life has value. Such value cannot be calculated by Washington bureaucrats. I won’t allow it. Only a true free-market can accurately assess the value I am capable of.  Mr President, I’m leaving the medical field. I’m hanging up the white coat. However, let me be clear. You have not won. Unless something “changes”, you’ve lost and will continue to lose. You will fail because you lack principle. Meanwhile, we will succeed because we are born of principle."

    According to the comments, Lotfi "poses in a lab coat and stethoscope, but he isn’t actually a med student. He’s a “political commentator”.... Link

    The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right. -- Judge Learned Hand, May 21, 1944

    by ybruti on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 07:22:27 AM PDT

  •  Singularity is really dangerous. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chmood, earlybird, KenBee, RiveroftheWest

    And you're ignoring one of the main groups which would step into the "Moral Panic."

    The people who think that human evolution must be guided fundamentally by humans and by human choices.

    I am one of those people.

    I think that any sentient AI should have the right to guide its own evolution, and make its own choices, so long as those choices don't effect the rights of others.

    As a species, we need to be allowed to make our own mistakes, and we need to figure this world out for ourselves. We can't hand our future over to a computer program.

    Those people you're talking about? They're not going to just discover the safety net and go quietly into the night. They're not going to say "Looks like the AI is taking everyone's jobs. Oh well!"

    Humans don't do well if we can't have some kind of work. Hopefully the AI is smart enough to make sure that there are spiritually fullfilling jobs available in things like science, exploration, the arts, and the humanities.

    Because if it doesn't provide some outlet for human creativity and self improvement, if it doesn't keep democracy around and let us choose our own destiny, if we just end up in a pre-singularity situation where a bunch of white collar folks are losing their jobs and filling up the social services rolls...

    They're going to try to burn everything down. Especially the conservative type for whom self-reliance is a religion.

    An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

    by OllieGarkey on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 07:23:18 AM PDT

    •  I've often said that my job keeps me too busy... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      OllieGarkey, RiveroftheWest actually get any work done.

      Humans don't do well if we can't have some kind of work. Hopefully the AI is smart enough to make sure that there are spiritually fullfilling jobs available in things like science, exploration, the arts, and the humanities
      I look forward to retirement, and hope that I am still in sufficiently good health by then to get some real work done once I have the time.

      I've spent a good deal of money in recent years in fulfilling my lifelong dream in purchasing books for my own personal library for when I retire.

      •  Exactly. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        earlybird, KenBee, RiveroftheWest
        I look forward to retirement, and hope that I am still in sufficiently good health by then to get some real work done once I have the time.

        If we do move in this direction, there needs to be a smooth transition, and we need to create a world where people can do the work that drives them.

        An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail. (The truth against the world.) Is treasa tuath na tighearna. (The common people are mightier than the lords.)

        by OllieGarkey on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 11:51:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I can imagine a two-tier economy... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RiveroftheWest, BusyinCA, OllieGarkey

        ... one - heavily leveraged by automation - to provide the necessities that keep us "free from want". The other would be a more labor-intensive "human-scale" economy of high-quality handcrafted products, personal services, child-rearing, sports, arts, entertainment.

        My relatives in Portland joke that the entire economy there is "based on people feeding each other", so perhaps we're already headed in that direction.

        The Scandinavians are good at "dis-employing" people with free college education, generous time-off policies for parenting, long vacations and secure retirements.

        My utopia would probably involve something like dropping the age for Social Security benefits to 40, coupled with policies that favor local and sustainable production of goods.

        The "two-tier" economy we have now uses automation to compete with human labor - concentrating wealth and forcing human workers into more & more mechanistic labor.

        Things will change when the fossil fuels dry up and it become too expensive to ship goods and materials across oceans. We should start preparing now.

        “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing
        he was never reasoned into” - Jonathan Swift

        by jjohnjj on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 12:54:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Sounds like the line from Dune (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      OllieGarkey, RiveroftheWest

      "Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of the mind of a man."

      Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

      by Omir the Storyteller on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 09:56:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  First ever venemous crustacean found. (6+ / 0-)

    Experts have found the first venomous crustacean - a centipede-like creature that lives in underwater caves.

    The blind "remipede" liquefies its prey with a compound similar to that found in a rattlesnake's fangs.

    It lives in underwater caves of the Caribbean, Canary Islands and Western Australia, feeding on other crustaceans.

    I kept waiting for somebody else to put this up, but nbody did, so here it is.

    That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

    by enhydra lutris on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 07:39:13 AM PDT

  •  The fun thing about the singularity (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Stwriley, RiveroftheWest

    is that its literally impossible for us to imagine what will happen. Once we design a machine that can design and create machines more powerful than itself, everything we knew no longer matters.

    But ive thought about this and I realized something, the one thing that we'll always have that such a system never could: We created it without knowing if it was possible to do so.

    And that will always be true, and it'll always be something it cannot do. yay!

    conversations that make no sense are one of the things that make conservatives so attractive.

    by kamrom on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 07:52:32 AM PDT

    •  I'm a skeptic... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      of the whole idea. The very concept of singularity is one of those things that sounds possible on the surface, but when you dig into it starts to look more and more unlikely. The first problem that every critic looks to is probably the one that will render the whole concept unattainable: intelligence is not just raw processing power and the rise of singularity can't be predicted just by the accelerating curve of technological development, even when only considering computing power. No matter how fast or sophisticated computers become, no matter the complexity we design into software, it is not even certain that we'll achieve real artificial intelligence of any kind, much less the far more complex set of interactions and internal processes needed to produce singularity. It's a long-shot kind of idea, at the fringes of the possible at best and hardly the inevitability that people like Kurzweil and other futurists like to claim.

      When we actually have more of the potential building blocks in place (and there's no sign that even that will happen any time soon) then we might need to start worrying about how we'll deal with our robot overlords. Until then, I'll spend my time worrying about the activities of our very human would-be overlords as they try to reduce most of us to a condition no intelligent machine or human would ever willingly accept for themselves.

      Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory, tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat. Sun Tzu The Art of War

      by Stwriley on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 03:44:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Climate change is rapidly moving towards making (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KenBee, RiveroftheWest

    man-hours moot period, end of story.

  •  ls a corporation made up entirely of machines... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    still a person?

    They say that what you mock will surely overtake you, And you become a monster so the monster will not break you.

    by JustBeKos on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 08:16:44 AM PDT

  •  I am such a nerd when it comes to paleontology (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    and astronomy. :)  Really cool stuff.

  •  Human nature trumps the singularity (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nisi Prius

    For tea baggers human history goes back a few thousand years. That way they can make up their own bogus facts as they need to push their twisted view of reality.

    In reality human history goes back a quarter of a million years and if we count Neanderthals as human then our history goes back 3 quarters of a million to a million years. A seismic shift in human nature took place in the recent past when we began to practice agriculture as a means of feeding ourselves. It is generally agreed this took place about 10 thousand years ago.

    The shift in human nature followed since hunter-gatherer societies prior to agricultural societies don't have divisions of labor or if they do those divisions are cloudy at best. With the practice of agriculture came well defined divisions of labor and  slavery became a fact of life in many early and even modern agricultural societies. A shift in human nature took place as land, slaves, and herds of domestic animals became symbols of wealth. In hunter-gatherer societies wealth was measured collectively and symbolism was used to request divine intervention for a succesful hunt.

    So another seismic shift is taking place as technology replaces human labor. Will human nature undergo a shift as it did 10 thousand years ago? Time will tell. The ideal situation would be for human nature to shift back to what it was like in hunter-gatherer societies when the Earth and the Universe itself were seen as deities. My fear is that the gods of banking and commerce that we appease today will gain more power at the expense of nature. Those who are enamored with technology must see that technology must be used as a means of improving the human condition and not a means of gaining political and economic power. The siren song of the gods of banking and commerce is too strong for some. Many of those who claim to be using technology to improve peoples's lives are simply paying lip service to a social ideal. Unless we move the ideal to match reality we are staring down into the dystopian black hole we want to avoid.

    Knowledge is Power. Ignorance is not bliss, it is suffering. If you like hypocrite Obama, you'll love hypocrite Hillary.

    by harris stein on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 09:24:14 AM PDT

    •  Um, not quite (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KenBee, RiveroftheWest
      The shift in human nature followed since hunter-gatherer societies prior to agricultural societies don't have divisions of labor or if they do those divisions are cloudy at best.
      The hunter-gatherer society I'm most familiar with, Inuit, certainly did have division of labour which arose out of the necessity of the hunter lifestyle (gathering tends to be minimal when ice and snow covers everything for most of the year).
  •  "The singularity" is an illusory epiphenomenon (0+ / 0-)

    of population growth, and the illusion will be dispelled when the population dies back due to resource limits.

    Technology doesn't run by itself - it needs people to run it. Constructing a global infrastructure capable of running without human intervention would take much more time than we have left before the dieback.

  •  The evolution of razor blades (0+ / 0-)

    Razor blade evolution

    The Economist had something to say about it, relevant to the above discussion

    An empty head is not really empty; it is stuffed with rubbish. Hence the difficulty of forcing anything into an empty head. -- Eric Hoffer

    by MichiganChet on Sat Oct 26, 2013 at 12:03:36 PM PDT

  •  Elevator operator (0+ / 0-)

    Was not my career of choice anyway, Linear thinking is at the core of this because we haven't taken things into account that we can't imagine yet.

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