So, recently, I debated someone about abortion. I like to do a lot of online debates, especially about abortion since it's such a charged topic, and I follow a formula which seems to work very very often and I wanted to share it with you guys if you think you ever get into an argument with a really kooky uncle. As always, keep it polite, but keep it honest- don't be afraid to call them out.
So my friend posted something about how Republicans are unreasonable, and this guy responded (i briefly edited the transcript in the beginning to reduce unrelated topics we were debating).
conservative guy: Can the Democratic party do anything more than murder babies, destroy freedom, create waste and failed policies, and oppress a nation with debt?
Me: I just want to point out to you that making abortions legal and accessible to women actually decreases abortion, as shown by a lot of studies, so you should reconsider who is the real murderer.
But even then, that language is highly charged. The majority of pediatricians for example, support abortion, does that mean that the majority of pediatricians are supporters of murder? Do you really feel it's appropriate to say that the majority of pediatricians, whose job it is to save the lives of children, are supporters of the murder of children?
I can address all your other points which are also poorly informed, but let me start with abortion.
Basically, here, Im just trying to get him to back off from charged rhetoric of calling people murderers. I'm fine with him being pro-life, but he should at least respect the opposition. Of course this never happens, just like no one listens to Judge Dredd when he tells them to put down their weapons:
Conservative guy: of course the language is highly charged! We're discussing murder of babies in this country! Abortion is murder and those that support it, support murder and there is no other valid way to look at that. I don't care how many people think it is right, who those people are, or what contrived study claims to find justification for it, nothing changes the truth of this matter, which comes from God.
So I switch tack. If he doesn't renege on his rhetoric, I'm going to make him own it along with all its implications.
Me: So what youre saying is that the majority of pediatricians are supporters of murder, since the support the right to abortion?
Conservative guy: If you support abortion, you support the murder of unborn babies, you do not necessarily support the murder of humans outside the womb. Many pediatricians oppose abortion for this very same reason. A majority vote, nor the caring heart of the individual will decide who is right.
Notice his evasiveness, he knows I'm trying to do something, but he can't quite figure out what. So he's rambling, not directly answering my question. But, I press him on this, I keep focused on the question I presented and don't let him get away.
Me: You're not responding to my question, Im not asking about whether they support the murder of humans outside the womb, or what "many" pediatricians do or about the caring heart of an individual.
You said that there is no other way to look at abortion than as murder, so youre basically saying that the majority of pediatricians support murder correct? Yes or no? Simple question based on a simplistic statement you made.
I, then, provided the evidence for my claim about pediatricians:
Me: Here is a poll by the American Academy of Pediatrics, the largest group of pediatricians in the country who suppor the right of murder:
http://www.aap.org/...
56.7% of pediatricians support abortion in all circumstances, while 92.1% support it in at least some circumstances. Doesn't that make 92.1% of America's pediatricians supporters of murder according to your own definitions of abortion and murder?
He finally bites:
conservative guy: Yes, my answer should not have been that hard to understand, according to this article and God's definition of life (not just mine) 92.1% of America's pediatricians support the murder of unborn babies.
So I spring my trap:
Me: I just wanted you to say it that's all, I understood it fine. OK, then in that case do you think it's ok for someone to participate in an institution where 92% of the members support murder? In other words, will you be entrusting your children to a pediatrician when the institution is filled with ungodly, immoral people who support murder? If you have a neighbor or a family member who sends his/her kids to a pediatricians will you stand up and say "this institution you entrust your kids to is filled with ungodly immoral people, don't send your kids there!"?
And he gives a rambling, incoherent response:
Conservative guy: I will be seeking care for my kids in such an institution, if that were to be my view, I would never have kids. The world is not a Godly moral place, and yet my family will live in the world, but I don't have to conform to the world and join in the world's error, the argument is not against the people or institutions but directed at exposing the error of their way. Jesus lived in this world, he obeyed a Roman government of non-believers, but He was never of this world and He stood against the error of the world's ungodliness, and was persecuted for it. In fact, He came to pay the price for our errors, and those of our murderers. To love those who murder, does not equate to condoning their rebellion, their rebellion still had a penalty (and for that reason He paid it himself). I can be a part of the world, love and have relationships with other imperfect people in the world, and not take part in the work of evil but work to expose its presence and effects in our world.
He realizes that it's time to leave:
Conservative guy: and since that really is the heart of this matter, that is the last I will add.
But see, while I don't insist on having someone debate with me, I do like to get in the last word, and I try to make it decisive, essentially daring him to respond.
Me: OK nice talking to you. I just find it interesting that God is willing to cure your child if you pray for it, but instead of trusting God, you would rather entrust your child to the hands of an avowed murderer and pay him money and listen to his advice. That logic frankly boggles my mind.
The heart of the matter for me is the sheer hypocrisy of someone who preaches about God and says a very prestigious institution is filled with people who support murder but then-when his kids' lives may be on the line-is willing to ignore God's message on healing and rely on said murderers instead.
You see, the conservative argument against abortion only works when they have nothing to lose, but when the lives of their children are on the line, suddenly they become a lot more reasonable. So the goal for us is basically to tie one to the other. Make them RELY on their argument as if it's life and death and see them run for the hills.
This argument is basically the same, over and over, with every conservative I've talked to. Some are convinced by the evidence showing that making abortion legal decreases it. This guy wasn't so I had to push him into a smaller box. Some aren't convinced by polls, so you have to push them into a still smaller box ("so youre saying the largest group of pediatricians are lying about the polling?" so they aren't murderers but they are still liars). This guy didn't do that.
You can also find lots of quotes from the bible which say that prayer is sufficient to heal:
Jeremiah 17 : 14.
Heal me, LORD, and I will be healed; save me and I will be saved, for you are the one I praise.
Exodus 15:26
He said, "If you will listen carefully to the voice of the Lord your God, and do what is right in his sight, and give heed to his commandments and keep all his statutes, I will not bring upon you any of the diseases that I brought upon the Egyptians; for I am the Lord who heals you."
Psalm 107:19-21
Then they cried to the Lord in their trouble, and he saved them from their distress; he sent out his word and healed them, and delivered them from destruction. Let them thank the Lord for his steadfast love, for his wonderful works to humankind.
Hope this helps.