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Cross-posted from Rall.com:

Four consecutive weeks of Obamacare columns is enough to make anyone sick. But an update is clearly in order.

The latest ACA-related fiasco is the story, much touted by Republicans, that millions of Americans are receiving cancellation notices from their insurers because their policies don't meet the requirements of ACA for coverage. Between that and the fact that it's basically impossible to buy a healthcare plan online (you can register, but registration isn't buying), it is entirely possible that by January 1st there will be more  people uninsured than before.

Granted, Republicans don't enjoy any credibility when it comes to healthcare. After all, their solution was none at all. They were fine with the current, crappy, who-cares-if-you-die system. But that doesn't mean the ACA is an improvement.

And if Democrats keep spouting talking points like the one I saw all over MSNBC yesterday, encapsulated perfectly by this post,  which I found on Daily Kos this morning, they shan't long have any cred left themselves:

They are trash policies that would have left policy-holders paying thousands out of their own pockets at time of claims. Non-guaranteed renewable, limited in benefit coverage, no preventive care, and most have absolutely no drug coverage. The maximum limit of coverage, which is a lifetime maximum, and is soon reached in this day and age.

The insurance companies issuing these policies knew they had three years to comply with the mandates of the Affordable Care Act, and they decided this was the way to get rid of that line of business, and rack up more premiums on better plans. The small percentage of people whose policies are being canceled should really thank God that it is forcing them to re-look at what they have in the way of health care. Most don't even know they had inferior policies they were paying for.

Let's bring this country of under-insureds up to normal and reasonable limits for the 21st century.

The thing is, Democrats, President Obama didn't tell the public "If you like your current plan, you can keep it unless it doesn't meet the new standards." There was no qualifier. Instead he said, over and over, so often that even Americans remember, "If you like your current plan, you can keep it." The qualifier matters.

Democrats are whistling past the graveyard if they think this doesn't matter. Getting a cancellation letter is a major pain in the ass. People who thought they were fine and didn't have to worry about the ACA now have to break their routines, take hours out of their lives, to deal with shopping for new coverage. They're not going to be happy about it, no matter how much they're told their old plan was shitty and worthless in the first place.

Sure, I'd rather drive a Dodge Challenger than a Honda Civic. But what Obama is doing is pulling me over, towing away my Civic and telling me I'll be fined — and have to walk home — unless I buy a Challenger that I may or may not be able to afford. That's pretty bad, but the last thing he'd better add is that he's doing me a favor.

So in other news, I received a letter from nystateofhealth, the New York state ACA marketplace. A letter. Via snail mail. Good news! "We have determined that you are eligible to enroll in a qualified health plan through the Marketplace," it reads. "Your health insurance plan will begin shortly after you have selected a health plan and paid the premium payment (if applicable).

I went online right away to log in. But...

All my personal data, all the information I spent hours uploading, including three months of personal financial statements related to my self-employment business as a cartoonist and writer, were gone!

So I got on the phone. The phone mail tree is byzantine but eventually a person picked up, accessed my account, and confirmed that indeed, I do qualify for coverage. "Can I choose a plan through you?" I asked the agent.

"No," he replied, "you'll get a letter, probably in early December. Go ahead and disregard the one you received."
Really? Disregard it? What will the second letter say?

"You'll be able to choose the plan through the letter," he said. Twice, because I made him.

"Through the mail?"

"Yes. Then your plan will be effective January 1st."

Let's hope this is true. And that it works.

Even so, I wonder: why'd they bother with the websites in the first place? Why didn't they just do the whole thing by mail?

I'll let you know what happens. Or doesn't.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Oh my God. Another Republican talking point... (12+ / 0-)
    Sure, I'd rather drive a Dodge Challenger than a Honda Civic. But what Obama is doing is pulling me over, towing away my Civic and telling me I'll be fined — and have to walk home — unless I buy a Challenger that I may or may not be able to afford. That's pretty bad, but the last thing he'd better add is that he's doing me a favor.
    This is the Ferrari comment from that dumbass GOP congresswoman.  

    Let me guess, you always don't want to drink out of stemware?

    Tax and Spend I can understand. I can even understand Borrow and Spend. But Borrow and give Billionaires tax cuts? That I have a problem with.

    by LiberalCanuck on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 05:59:58 AM PDT

    •  Republicans are turds (11+ / 0-)

      But that doesn't make some of what they say true.

      •  Here's what was said: (12+ / 0-)
        REP. MARSHA BLACKBURN, R-TN (10/30/2013): What do you say to Mark and Lucinda in my district, who had a plan, they liked it, it was affordable, but it is being terminated, and now they do not have health insurance? ... I will remind you, some people like to drive a Ford, not a Ferrari, and some people like to drink out of a red Solo Cup, not a crystal stem.  You're taking away their choice.
        The problem is, what she is saying is horse crap. What is being terminated are the "no insurance" insurance policies that aren't Fords (or Honda's) but really just pictures of Ford's and Honda's and the assurance that "don't worry, you really have a car" when you have nothing.

        Tax and Spend I can understand. I can even understand Borrow and Spend. But Borrow and give Billionaires tax cuts? That I have a problem with.

        by LiberalCanuck on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 06:12:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes (7+ / 0-)

          That's true. Her implication is that people prefer to drive a Ford over a Ferrari, and frankly, that's not true. People don't prefer shitty healthcare plans.

          Which still doesn't change my point.

          •  The point is, complaints about the ACA should be.. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            a2nite, second gen, jdsnebraska

            based on verified fact, not misinfomation, hyperbole or ideology.

            I get that you don't like the ACA (a lot don't for good reason) and that single-payer is the best option, but quoting right wing talking points that don't address what is REALLY wrong with the ACA doesn't make an effective argument.  It just sounds like you have ideological reasons for opposition.

            Tax and Spend I can understand. I can even understand Borrow and Spend. But Borrow and give Billionaires tax cuts? That I have a problem with.

            by LiberalCanuck on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 06:42:17 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Got Cancer? OON you go for care. (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gooderservice, poligirl, Dave925, Johnny Q

              OON=  "Out of Network"

              That's a fact.  These plans are very narrowly drawn.  Kind of like the old Ford Falcon.  It's not anywhere near the Single Payer we needed.

              Top Hospitals Opt Out of Obamacare
              Americans who sign up for insurance on the state exchanges may not have access to the nation's top hospitals, Watchdog.org reports.

              Though top-ranked hospitals like Case Medical Center accept plans from dozens of private insurers, if you buy your insurance on the Obamacare exchanges your options for treatment may be limited.

              Wellpoint and Aetna's decision to not educate the public on its choices doesn't sit well with two experts.

              "There is no reason to keep that quiet. It's not going to be a good secret for very long when people want to use the plans," Wilensky said.

              "In many cases, consumers are shopping blind when it comes to what doctors and hospitals are included in their Obamacare exchange plans," said Josh Archambault, senior fellow with the think tank Foundation for Government Accountability. "These patients will be in for a rude awakening once they need care, and get stuck with a big bill for going out-of-network without realizing it."

              If the insurers aren't informing the consumers, isn't it the role of the government to protect people from them.

              If the goal of Obamacare was to protect consumers from "lousy plans" and "junk insurance" shouldn't consumers be warned about the issues surrounding these plans?

              Ted kick the tires first!
              •  in Maine (4+ / 0-)

                I was able to check which doctors and hospitals are 'in network' in my county. This was crucial for me. They are ALL included.

                 Admittedly, there was nothing about fancy hospitals for specialized care. That's a question I'll be asking when I contact the new Co-op that my plan will be with.

                “Good things don’t come to those who wait. They come to those who agitate!” Julian Bond

                by Dvalkure on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 10:15:30 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Aaaaaaaand BOJO! (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                jdsnebraska

                Again, RW propaganda has no place on this site.

                Sad that this got 5 up-rates, but not too surprising when looking at who some of the up-raters are.

                I'm a "right-wing freak show," or at least that's what one nobody on DKOS seems to think.

                by kefauver on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 03:32:23 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  That's truly horrifying (0+ / 0-)

                I will look into it, both for personal and political reasons.

                Truly, why are we asking anyone to shop blindly for a product that costs thousands of dollars a year?

                Also, why is the government subsidizing private insurers yet not imposing price controls on them? Seems to me the feds have issued a blank check to Hartford.

                •  You apparently aren't clear on how this works. (0+ / 0-)

                  The insurers are limited to 15% gross profits on their group insurance plans, and 20% gross profits on their individual plans.  If they make gross profit over those amounts (which they have done for many, many years), they have to return the excess to the policy holders.

                  Keeping people out of ERs for minor illnesses will hold down health care costs.

                  Providing the means for individuals to seek medical attention that's covered by their insurance plan means that treatable minor illnesses will be addressed before they become major illnesses, again holding down health care costs.

                  But of course, those who are looking for things to bitch about can always manufacture them.  We see that here every day ... often by the same people ... over and over.

                  btw, thousands of dollars?  With the subsidy my son's getting, his annual cost out of pocket will be less than a grand.

            •  Some Kossacks are so suspicious of Ted Rall, (10+ / 0-)

              that they're quicker to pin "right wing talking points" on him , than to try and understand the entirety of his diaries. They walk into his diaries carrying two pies behind their back.

              The ACA roll-out is a fiasco, a failure in many directions. And the right-wing has been hating on it, and sharpening their knives, for more than three years now. The odds are, any complaint anyone makes about the ACA and its launch, has already been made by dozens of Republicans, and chain-mailed through the internet.

              Ted Rall has had a most frustrating experience trying to sign up for the ACA - as have millions of people across the country. He's telling his story, giving his opinions, trying to assess this whole mess.

              If the ACA website gets completely sorted out in the next few weeks, as promised - and if Ted is still bashing it after that happens - then it will be reasonable to blame him for spouting right-wing talking points.

              In the meanwhile, we'd have a much more interesting and pleasant conversation here if people didn't come in here, hungrily looking for phrases to throw their pies at (and if Ted avoided the temptation to throw the pies back, too).

              "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

              by Brecht on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 09:12:06 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  It's hard not to pick up republican talking points (3+ / 0-)

      when you're sitting down and talking to Newsmax

      •  It's not like MSNBC ever calls (9+ / 0-)

        Now that Dylan Ratigan is out, they never invite leftists.

        •  That's a great reason to talk to Newsmax. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          citizenx, second gen, jdsnebraska

          They are a reputable news service. If you read them you know that Hillary is a pacifist, lesbian racist who murdered her lover Vince Foster.

          When Glenn Beck calls I am sure you will go on his show too.

          Most of the people taking a hard line against us are firmly convinced that they are the last defenders of civilization... The last stronghold of mother, God, home and apple pie and they're full of shit! David Crosby, Journey Thru the Past.

          by Mike S on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 07:39:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I would absolutely (6+ / 0-)

            go on Glenn Beck.

            I also had David Duke on my radio show.

            These things make me a right-winger. Obviously.

            •  Right winger? No. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              second gen, citizenx

              Person wiling to use right wing frames and help give the right wing the ability to say "even the liberal ted Rall..." Absolutely. You're a "Fox News Democrat" on steroids. You claim to be far to the left of the Democratic Party yet are helping the GOP slam the Democrats to get back into power.

              I suppose that will help you make more money though so at least you have that going for you.  

              Most of the people taking a hard line against us are firmly convinced that they are the last defenders of civilization... The last stronghold of mother, God, home and apple pie and they're full of shit! David Crosby, Journey Thru the Past.

              by Mike S on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 08:05:52 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Your last line is an ad hominem assumption (7+ / 0-)

                unless you have evidence of Ted money grubbing. He wants to make a buck, of course - that's the American way, and necessary to survive.

                If Ted was all about money, he's smart enough, he could have conformed to get ahead in the ubiquitous rat race. He's gone in the opposite direction.

                I don't agree with him, that talking to Glenn Beck does an atom of good. But it's obvious that he's far more motivated by thinking for himself, and promoting free speech in all directions, than he is by the almighty dollar.

                "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

                by Brecht on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 09:21:38 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Thank you. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  raboof, Brecht

                  If I wanted to money grub, I would have taken my mom's advice back in 2001 not to rock the boat, to suck up to Bush like most of my Democratic colleagues did, to pull my punches. Instead, for being stupidly idealistic and consistent, I watched my clients cancel me and my income drop to about 40% of what I earned in 2000...and it has taken 12 years to get back to where I was.

                  If I wanted to money grub, I also would have joined the pro-Obama cartoonist brigade, either pulling punches or not criticizing him at all. This would mean that my work would appear in Mother Jones, the Progressive and The Nation where it used to appear, and no longer does. I would have legions of loyal Democratic fans (as I did in the 1990s and under Bush), who would support my books and my appearances and click the Donate button on my website.

                  But I'm too stupid and stubborn to do that.

                  I didn't get into cartooning to pull my punches because for me, cartooning is punk rock, and if I ever had to not say exactly how I felt about things, it wouldn't be fun anymore. And then I would just go back into banking, which I was actually pretty good at, except for hating wearing a tie.

              •  my gawd man, even the president has used RW (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                DeadHead, Johnny Q, emal, TheMomCat

                frames fcol. think about that every time you hear the word 'entitlement' and 'reform', especially in terms of SS, come out of his mouth.

                he's also pretty friendly with some Republicans too. so why don't you go take him to task.

                "The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those that speak it." ~George Orwell "When it is dark enough, you can see the stars." ~Charles Beard

                by poligirl on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 10:58:36 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I love that it doesn't bother you (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  second gen

                  that he goes on Newsmax. As long as someone is attacking the President it doesn't matter to you that they do it on a site that is dedicated to destroying everything you stand for.

                  Most of the people taking a hard line against us are firmly convinced that they are the last defenders of civilization... The last stronghold of mother, God, home and apple pie and they're full of shit! David Crosby, Journey Thru the Past.

                  by Mike S on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 12:52:40 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  there you go with your assumptions... (4+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    DeadHead, Brecht, emal, TheMomCat

                    i prefer to stick with facts instead of assumptions, but i guess that's just not your cup of tea. carry on.

                    "The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those that speak it." ~George Orwell "When it is dark enough, you can see the stars." ~Charles Beard

                    by poligirl on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 01:46:54 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Fact. (0+ / 0-)

                      You recced every comment he made about going on right wing hate sites and radio and complained about me calling him on it. I don't have to assume anything. Your actions are all anyone needs to see.

                      Most of the people taking a hard line against us are firmly convinced that they are the last defenders of civilization... The last stronghold of mother, God, home and apple pie and they're full of shit! David Crosby, Journey Thru the Past.

                      by Mike S on Sat Nov 02, 2013 at 10:41:34 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

      •  That's okay. Many, many democrats talk to (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        poligirl, Dave925, Johnny Q, TheMomCat

        Fox "News."

    •  Republican talking points definitely get (6+ / 0-)

      repeated way too often by some here at DailyKos nowadays for my taste.

      I had just watched Jon Stewart demolish Blackburn for uttering this silly talking point in Bruinkid's Daily Show diary and then I read this diary and encounter virtually the same talking point.

      That was weird.

      "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

      by Lawrence on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 06:39:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Oh, do shut up, Portia! n/t (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AnnetteK, Dave925, avsp, GoGoGoEverton

    Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

    by Cedwyn on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 06:10:04 AM PDT

  •  In all these rants of yours (5+ / 0-)

    You never give the specifics of your income, family size, or even your policy details

    Considering virtually all the stories we've seen online have been discredited as people not understanding their policy/subsidies...it makes it very hard to believe that you are anything other than confused

    •  Frankly (13+ / 0-)

      Those details are my business. My private life.
      And they don't change my experience trying to register for healthcare one iota.

      There is actually no evidence that anybody has been able to buy a plan through New York State's healthcare marketplace website.

      Nobody.

      I'm not talking about registering.

      Buying.

      And I'm not surprised. If you tried it, you'd see it's impossible for any human being to do so.

      I'm not going to bother getting into the details of my technical expertise, but suffice it to say I've forgotten more code - and math - and science - than you'll probably ever know.

      •  Okay, you're confused (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        second gen

        Don't really understand how insurance policies and subsidies work, it's okay

        If you ever want to learn, just provide your details and I'll slowly explain it to you

        Then you'd finally stop embarrassing yourself with these laughable analogies about Chargers and Civics

      •  Sure they're private. But if you're going to (0+ / 0-)

        come here INCESSANTLY and bitch that something that depends on your income is bad, you have to be able to provide details. Otherwise, it's just bitching without facts.

        I'd like to start a new meme: "No means no" is a misnomer. It should be "Only 'Yes' means yes." Just because someone doesn't say "No" doesn't mean they've given consent. If she didn't say "Yes", there is no consent.

        by second gen on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 08:16:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Aren't we all about protecting people's private (7+ / 0-)

          information?

          Ted's given the salient facts, of his actual experience trying to sign up for health insurance.

          If Ted were to reveal all the details of his personal finances and situation, the squad of flying monkeys that come here to harass him would just pore over them, poking for holes. The only way those exact numbers would be relevant is, if you're determined to prove Ted's lying about the whole thing.

          "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

          by Brecht on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 09:27:55 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  what does MB say? arrow! zing! bullseye!... (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Brecht, Johnny Q, ek hornbeck
            if you're determined to prove Ted's lying about the whole thing.

            "The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those that speak it." ~George Orwell "When it is dark enough, you can see the stars." ~Charles Beard

            by poligirl on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 11:01:21 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Yes. Just like this lady: (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            citizenx

            Obamacare hysteria: Don't believe the canceled insurance hype

            And that's what Ted's afraid of. That we'll poke holes in a story with huge holes in it. Why is he any different than the rest of the teabaggers who are making false claims?

            I'd like to start a new meme: "No means no" is a misnomer. It should be "Only 'Yes' means yes." Just because someone doesn't say "No" doesn't mean they've given consent. If she didn't say "Yes", there is no consent.

            by second gen on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 11:01:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  2 slam-dunk reasons spring to mind; (5+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              poligirl, triv33, DeadHead, Johnny Q, TheMomCat

              beyond which, there's more nuance to Ted's worldview and personality than I see, and than you seem interested in looking for.

              1) Ted has a long history of opinions, which point in many directions, but skew far more to the left than the right.

              2) Teabaggers are mostly stuck in their own bubble, and adamantly refuse to think outside it. Ted has come to a Democratic website to share his views, and has been engaging a lot of dialog which, while often snarky and sometimes rude, shows that he's been listening and learning since the day he got here.

              I don't think you'll see it that way, but I don't think you're sincerely looking either. In Ted's diaries, he's shown much more active, responsive intelligence than you have.

              "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

              by Brecht on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 11:22:08 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  "I know you are, but what am I." (0+ / 0-)

                Pretty much sums up your responses.

                He's come to Daily Kos to tell his story. He wants sympathy for his story without giving all the facts. People, at first, were trying to help him figure out what his best options were for healthcare. Instead of taking the help, he just wanted to yell "OBAMA!! BAD!" so, his motives are clear. He doesn't really care if he gets affordable insurance or not, he's just here to carry some water.

                I'd like to start a new meme: "No means no" is a misnomer. It should be "Only 'Yes' means yes." Just because someone doesn't say "No" doesn't mean they've given consent. If she didn't say "Yes", there is no consent.

                by second gen on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 11:26:51 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Maybe you're eliciting that type of response (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Johnny Q, Brecht, ek hornbeck, TheMomCat

                  from people, because I'm inclined to make a similar one, in response to this part of your comment:

                  He doesn't really care if he gets affordable insurance or not, he"s just here to carry some water.
                  And you don't really care whether his story is legitimate or not, you're just here to carry water for the administration and shield the ACA from criticism.

                  Ted Rall doesn't strike me as being someone in the market for sympathy. Even if he was, I'd understand why he'd decline to seek it from an army of partisan zealots ready to call "troll" first and ask questions later.




                  Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

                  by DeadHead on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 01:17:36 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Thanks for showing up, as usual, DeadHead! (0+ / 0-)

                    Have a great day

                    I'd like to start a new meme: "No means no" is a misnomer. It should be "Only 'Yes' means yes." Just because someone doesn't say "No" doesn't mean they've given consent. If she didn't say "Yes", there is no consent.

                    by second gen on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 01:35:49 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  My pleasure. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      ek hornbeck, TheMomCat

                      I very much enjoy showing up "as usual" to diaries on the recent list.

                      Especially ones like this, where the usual "Leave Obama Alone!" Squad is guaranteed to have already arrived before me, or will shortly thereafter.




                      Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

                      by DeadHead on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 02:24:38 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

    •  OPB here in Oregon is reporting today that (9+ / 0-)

      Cover Oregon, the agency and website that you must enroll through here, has yet to process a single application.  Either online, which as of today is still not fully functional, or via the mail.

      They have 7300 paper applications that they are trying to process by hand.

      Through early morning fog I see visions of the things to be the pains that are withheld for me I realize and I can see...

      by Keith930 on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 06:39:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  "Virtually all"? You need to expand your sources. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      poligirl

      nt

  •  Obama could hand you a gold... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, second gen

    plated health care plan and agree to pay for it......and you'd still hate him.

    •  Yes (11+ / 0-)

      because of the drones and Gitmo and Afghanistan and Iraq and Syria and Libya and the banksters.

      But I'd give him credit for the ACA if it wasn't a complete piece of shit.

      You'd be amazed how many big bold-face progressives who are trying to buy plans on the NY marketplace tell me the same thing...but they dare not write about it in public because they're worried about accusations of disloyalty by so-called progressives.

      •  Well, at least you're honest. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MsLibrarian

        It's pretty bizarre how you're blaming Obama for Bush's b.s., like Iraq, though.

        Hate tends to be addictive and eat you up from the inside, Ted... it's definitely not healthy for you and tends to cloud your judgement.

        "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

        by Lawrence on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 06:54:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Funny how the Bushies said the same thing (7+ / 0-)

          about my hatred for W eating me inside.

          To the contrary, I sleep well knowing who I hate and why.

          It's not like these things are bizarre and subjective. Obama is 100% responsible for the things I mentioned. He's still in Iraq in 2013. There is zero reason for him to be there, and yet, there he is, there we are, and somehow Bush is still to blame?

          •  I suppose... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Lawrence

            yes Bush is still to blame.  

            As I watched the news about Iraqi officials this AM asking the U.S. for more military support (due to increasing violence) I recalled my first thoughts on Bush II's invasion.  It's going to be never ending quagmire.  It is the ongoing mess many predicted it would become.

            Bush broke it now we've all bought it while he paints pictures of his toesies in the tub.

            So yeah, it's fair to point back to Bush.

            Imperialist artifacts of the ME aren't of stable foundations so when mucking about with them expect it to be a protracted process....at best.  :-(  

          •  What? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Lawrence
            He's still in Iraq in 2013
            What do you mean by "in Iraq?"  Because as far as I know, we haven't had any military there for almost 2 years.  We have a bunch of diplomatic assets, though.
            •  By "in Iraq" (0+ / 0-)

              I mean that the U.S. is still actively involved in combat operations in Iraq.

              In Iraq, occupation by another name
              Even as embassy population is reduced, America is projecting power by adding CIA personnel and Special Operations
              February 16, 2012|By Adil E. Shamoo

              Two recent reports appearing on the same day last week in The New York Times and The Washington Post illustrate U.S. intentions in Iraq. What they reveal is that despite the heralded "end" of U.S. participation in the war there, U.S. policy continues to depend on our security apparatus to influence Iraq, at the expense of Iraqis' sovereignty and dignity.

              The Times report informed us that the U.S. State Department decided to cut the U.S. embassy staff by 50 percent from its current 16,000 personnel. This is a good decision; the U.S. embassy in Baghdad is the largest in the world. The reason given for the decision is primarily to reduce the American footprint in Iraq with the hope of reducing Iraqi hostility toward these evident remnants of occupation.

              The second report, in the Post, informs us that the U.S. is significantly ramping up the number of CIA personnel and covert Special Operations forces in order to make up for reducing the American military and diplomatic footprint. These added covert personnel will be distributed in safe houses in urban centers all across the country. This represents a new way to exert U.S. power, but it is betting on the Iraqis not noticing the increased covert personnel. Really? This is a bad decision as it contradicts the reasons for the decision to reduce embassy staff.

              •  Doesn't change the underlying dynamics one bit... (0+ / 0-)

                once you create a power vacuum in these ME countries it becomes 'our' problem (if the country affected is of strategic importance to the U.S.) and will be the problem of future administrations.

                How many 'combat ops' would we have if Bush and Co. had not invaded Iraq to begin with?

                I suspect we'll be mucking about in Iraq until we no longer rely on oil and Isreal no longer relies on us so much.  In other words the U.S. is stuck, for a very, very, very long time and a lot of people warned of this.

                That's not to say Pres. Obama is squeaky clean on every issue. Fair is fair though and to 'blame' him for the need of ongoing U.S. presence in Iraq CIA, special OPs, security, Embassy protection (and whatever else the Baltimore Sun wants to call 'combat ops') is ignoring reality and history.

                (**if the country affected is of strategic importance to the U.S.)

          •  lol! (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jdsnebraska
            Obama is 100% responsible for the things I mentioned. He's still in Iraq in 2013. There is zero reason for him to be there, and yet, there he is, there we are, and somehow Bush is still to blame?
            Now I know not to take you seriously.

            "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

            by Lawrence on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 10:28:30 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  "Four consecutive weeks of Obamacare columns is (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jdsnebraska

    enough to make anyone sick."

    Yes.

    Yes it is.

    I'd like to start a new meme: "No means no" is a misnomer. It should be "Only 'Yes' means yes." Just because someone doesn't say "No" doesn't mean they've given consent. If she didn't say "Yes", there is no consent.

    by second gen on Fri Nov 01, 2013 at 08:12:35 AM PDT

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