Skip to main content

Sort of want to reiterate a story I told a few diaries ago about Richard Rorty commenting scholarship is a conversation we join in the middle and leave before the end. Just getting the idea there are more factions and fictions than I was aware of. Shouldn't be surprised, since the same was true at LiveJournal (the fanfiction corner) and it took me about a year to notice, so I guess this is better. But I like to know how to avoid triggering other people.

Anyone know if there are any historical glossaries, texts, or wikis I could read to get up to speed? Ran into an interesting, if rather defensive diary today which taught me some new things and got my adrenaline going (very fun Saturday night stuff, better than SNL!) and that led to another diary I recc'd for its nice writing and POV. Then I realized that the FIRST diary I read was actually in response to this SECOND diary, and a whole new wave of MEANING came flowing through.. including dark hints of something called "HR" which is what -- human resources? I've read too many rules too quickly, I think. Oh, also, what's a concern troll?

I'm assuming this is of no interest to a larger community and has no reason at all to be rec'cd. So please don't. I think of this as the kind of entry where we'll all sitting in Commons and chatting over tea. Or coffee, should you prefer. Civilly. Lightly.

9:21 AM PT: Just remembered a highly important other query -- does the tip jar itself work automatically somehow? (I know that it appears automatically). I mean, how do people use the tip jar -- are you supposed to click on it to tip, or what?

Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 10:22 AM PT: Historical memory of guidelines turns out to be perhaps shorter than I thought. Happened across this, which are the Kos current guidelines, apparently. Of course, they still don't tell me how to tip, but c'est la vie.


Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags


More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (11+ / 0-)

    A beggar on horseback lashes a beggar on foot. The beggars change places, but the lash goes on. --WB Yeats

    by kestrel sparhawk on Sat Nov 02, 2013 at 09:11:26 PM PDT

  •  I really like ... (6+ / 0-)

    ... the reference to the Rorty comment about scholarship. It's Spot On and always reminds me about how good and valuable it is to stay interested and Keep Learning! Such a great quote!

    HR = Hide Rate or Hide Ratio. Check the DKos boards for beginning diarists (sorry, I don't have the links available), but someone will be along shortly to help you more in that regard.

    A "Concern Troll" is basically a person who is feigning concern about a topic and falsely paying lip-service to an idea which concerns the community, but doing so in a biased way, using propaganda and "talking points." They have an agenda beyond the concern they falsely claim in their diary topic. Scout around for numerous examples.

    I agree with you: one of the wonderful things about this site is the depth and breadth of knowledge you can find on SO MANY different topics.

    WELCOME! ... and Keep Going!


    Appraise the Lord! : Tax Church Property. O <-- Circle of Trust. YOU are Here: ------------> x

    by Great Ape on Sat Nov 02, 2013 at 09:53:51 PM PDT

    •  thanks for the definitions (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Technically, I belong to "New Diaries," but I went there and couldn't easily find even the general rules. I suppose they will show up eventually -- I've been writing more or less steadily a month or so now, and have yet to learn all the navigation. For example, I just learned tonight you can tell who's thumbs-upping comments (or whatever it's called) by clicking on the numbers. That was exciting!

      I'll look for example; I can't quite see it. I suppose it's like the nasty people who say, "Can't we all just get along? So and so is a real arse by being so unkind," or whatever?

      Yes, I love the quotation. He spoke in the first class I took in grad school (Rhetoric and Philosophy) and it made the ENTIRE rest of school (and afterwards) make so much more sense. Previous to that, I thought all quotations from everyone just proved I was an ignoramus; after that, I thought of myself as material in space and time. It's hard to describe, but an intensely radical moment, in the original sense of "to the root."

      Nice to meet you. And Love "Appraise the Lord"!"

      A beggar on horseback lashes a beggar on foot. The beggars change places, but the lash goes on. --WB Yeats

      by kestrel sparhawk on Sat Nov 02, 2013 at 10:26:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  reminds me (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        freerad, RiveroftheWest

        of when i switched from just reading this site and became a member and started writing..I love these kinds of diaries thanks for posting

        •  Hello (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          I'm happy for the positive reinforcement because I'm horrible at etiquette and always feel I'm violating rules I haven't yet learned if I go in this direction.

          I read for awhile, but it seems there are the Official DK writers (whose columns are part of site advertising) and then the rest, and since of course I was mostly reading what was rec'cd, I didn't pick up on the Rules and nuances.

          A beggar on horseback lashes a beggar on foot. The beggars change places, but the lash goes on. --WB Yeats

          by kestrel sparhawk on Sun Nov 03, 2013 at 08:41:36 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Hope you comment more. Welcome. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RiveroftheWest, GAS, lightarty
    •  Thank you! (4+ / 0-)

      I discovered today that commenting is a WONDERFUL avoidance for what I'm supposed to be doing (researching and writing Nanowrimo) so I suspect this month at least I'm going to be a major gadfly.

      I particularly enjoyed your "grow a pair" entry. I hate it particularly because it's sexist (am working on making "doesn't have the ovaries" a standard insult) but also of course because it's true -- the question is not whether he has balls, but whether he's acting the way he should as President.

      Nice to meet you. --Kes (or Cassandra)

      A beggar on horseback lashes a beggar on foot. The beggars change places, but the lash goes on. --WB Yeats

      by kestrel sparhawk on Sat Nov 02, 2013 at 10:21:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  If you want civility and lightness (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    you'll want to avoid mentioning Palestine, the Green Party, JFK, Thomas Friedman, AT&T, moderate Republicans, pumas, Rahm Emanuel, the electoral college, drones, chemtrails, Alabama, and politics in general.

    That leaves rock and roll obituaries, which we're good at. Can't wait for one on Pat Boone.

    And if any of that makes sense to you, you'll fit right in.

    Dick Cheney 2/14/10: "I was a big supporter of waterboarding" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . UID: 8519

    by Bob Love on Sun Nov 03, 2013 at 03:31:49 AM PST

  •  cultural immersion (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    There may or may not be a help guide that's still relevant or a list of Frequently Asked Questions with answers. "Relevant" is the key word there. Things have changed here over the years, and maintaining documentation tends to be more difficult than initiating it.

    It's perfectly reasonable to ask. I hope you won't feel too disappointed if the available material isn't what you hoped. Lack of written ethnography and new participant how-to is very common among human organizations.

    It's been my experience and observation, even backed up by some scholarship, that there's no substitute for cultural immersion. My hypothesis is that it's by design the result of our species' evolution.

    Whether it's a new school, new work place, new club, new neighborhood in a new town, any human social group that has a bit of stable history, figuring out the "rules" — really, the culture — almost always involves observation and oral history.

    The recent invention of writing might mislead us into thinking it ought to be easier or quicker, especially if we participants are readers and writers ourselves. :) Our social behaviors have a much longer evolutionary history than our written texts, however, so our built-in default is oral history, observation, and often, trial-and-error participation.

    Here at DK, I find it useful to lurk (read, but not comment) in diaries and comment sections that inspire controversy and contention as well as those that seem socially cohesive to compare how they operate.


    •  Don't throw me in the water (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      etbnc, RiveroftheWest

      But do please tell me the html for the crossed out but still readable words -- I've seen them in many amusing entries and have never known.

      As an ethnographer myself, I'm used to immersive learning -- but for some reason, I still have this anxious need to read ALL about the rules when it's a community which I'm joining instead of studying...

      so far, socially cohesive diaries don't seem to be about politics, but then, I've only actually been reading intensively, as opposed to flirting with the ideas, the last month or so. I do know I wanted to blog, and when I actually looked at posts and arguments, DK seemed more my kind of community than certain others. I'm still at what I hope is just a stage, tossing out whatever I feel like writing about and seeing who salutes -- or spits, or worst of all, ignores me.

      Thank you for your advice; I will indeed go look to compare.

      You mentioned some scholarship. So what's your discipline? And interests? (and yes, I did peek at your profile, and browsed your dialogue strategy, which I appreciated. I can see that I'm going to have to read more of such things, since my main commentary so far has been reactive rather than constructive. I really, really miss seminar arguments, I am finding, now that I've found myself a fair substitute.

      A beggar on horseback lashes a beggar on foot. The beggars change places, but the lash goes on. --WB Yeats

      by kestrel sparhawk on Sun Nov 03, 2013 at 08:31:58 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  the easy bit first (0+ / 0-)

        <strike>humorous aside</strike>

      •  Error 404: Discipline Not Found (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Discipline is not something I usually associate with my interests in learning and applying knowledge. :)

        Ten years ago I was inspired to think deeply about environmental problems and the general problem of sustaining human life (or any life) on this planet for another generation. The teacher who inspired me was something of a generalist, which was good because I am, too. At that time I learned some concepts drawn from cultural anthropology which seemed to offer a good framework to organize knowledge and ideas obtained by grazing lots of other -ologies with no regard to academic discipline.

        To stereotype, with some basis in observation and experience, engineers like to know how things work, and we're annoyed by things that don't work satisfactorily. It's my experience and observation that the collection of human endeavors vaguely labeled "western civilization" works poorly. It doesn't function to the satisfaction of most of its participants. It's unhealthy. It's broken.

        That annoys me. I'd like to fix it. Fixing it involves understanding it. Understanding it seems to require a very broad range of ideas and knowledge that come from a broad range of categories or disciplines.

        My interest in cultural anthropology includes seeking usable templates for society, ways of life that have seemed healthier and more likely to last, which means comparing indigenous peoples' ways of doing things to our own. That gets into decision-making, the neuroscience of brains that make decisions, conscious and unconscious thought, individual psychology and social psychology. Which leads to beliefs and belief systems, perception, social construction of reality, attitudes and values, narratives, stories, and memes. For my purposes, sociology and economics fall under those others, although that tends to annoy sociologists and economists. (I don't mind annoying economists, generally.) A bit of the chemistry and physics and science needed to understand our energy-based economy and the hurdle of peak oil. Some chemistry and biology to understand peak pollution. Some math, especially geometic doubling and compounding (exponential functions) helps to understand carrying capacity and population overshoot. A little bit of probability and statistics helps. Did I mention human evolution? That's mixed up in all the rest.

        Fixing our culture's problem(s) involves understanding and applying social influence. Which gets into communication, persuasion, and more individual and social psychology. I would imagine rhetoric fits in there somewhere. I've encountered somewhat varying notions of what rhetoric is or ought to be, so I won't try to force fit it myself. Varying notions of what any noun-concept is or ought to be also seem rather common.

        I like your Rorty remark about scholarship as a conversation. Another suggestion I encountered is that scholarship should make things more visible. So, generally, my approach to scholarship (and communicating results of scholarship) is to make things more visible to whatever audience happens to be handy.

        That's a long answer to one of your short questions. I should go run some errands now. I'll try to provide a few observations about Daily Kos later.


        •  I like the long answers (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          As you can probably tell from my own. From what you describe, I think you would have been very happy in British Cultural Studies. I loved it when I found it, because I couldn't quite fit my interests into a tidy area either. Check out Stuart Hall sometime, or John Fiske, and see what you think. You're absolutely right that there are varying notions of what rhetoric is, or ought to be, and I have only one helpful response for that (and for Cultural Studies): Eschew English Departmentss. If you can avoid them and their interpretations, you're pretty safe. But English Departments are kind of like the Blob, if you've ever seen that sf movie. They  assimilate all other mass and just keep getting bigger. They distort whatever existed before, and they keep trying to drag it back to Literature. I can say this because I majored in English and got all the way to MFA before I Found the Light.

          I like the "visibility" idea. I'm a gypsy scholar (which is to say, I left the field for love, which was a stupid mistake, but kept reading and writing nonetheless) and for me, my main goal was to take every idea I thought was cool and try to translate it so other people could get why it was cool also. My biggest challenge so far is explaining post structuralism and semiotics. Semiotics is so simple that everyone in it is terrified they don't understand it, so it's hard to read about.

          A beggar on horseback lashes a beggar on foot. The beggars change places, but the lash goes on. --WB Yeats

          by kestrel sparhawk on Sun Nov 03, 2013 at 12:33:56 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site