Skip to main content

Christian Dem in NC has a diary already up about the basic situation in Miami.  Since that is already a lengthy, on-going discussion, I wanted to point to something more recent.

Cris Carter recently appeared on ESPN claiming that Dolphins players don't see Incognito as racist.  Miami Herald columnist Armando Salguero followed that up by contacting Dolphins players.

Well, I've spoken to multiple people today about this and the explanation from all of them is that in the Dolphins locker room, Richie Incognito was considered a black guy. He was accepted by the black players. He was an honorary black man.

And Jonathan Martin, who is bi-racial, was not. Indeed, Martin was considered less black than Incognito.  Non-white teammates such as Brent Grimes and Michael Egnew are on record as saying explicitly that Incognito isn't a racist.

"Richie is honarary," one player who left the Dolphins this offseason told me today. "I don't expect you to understand because you're not black. But being a black guy, being a brother is more than just about skin color. It's about how you carry yourself. How you play. Where you come from. What you've experienced. A lot of things."

Salguero writes that Martin had a problem being accepted, especially by black players, because he was considered soft and because he was the highly educated (he went to Stanford) son of highly educated people (his parents are Harvard-educated lawyers).

I'm not white, but I'm not black either, so I'm not going to jump in with a diary professing to understand everything and explain it, but I'll give a platform in the comments for anyone who wants to take a stab at it.

Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags


More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Does Richie get pulled over for driving (10+ / 0-)

    while black?  He was with the Rams and they got rid of him because he constatly got kicked out of games and played out of control.  They cut him when they needed offensive linemen.

    Miami Dolphins could be sued and since Richie Icognito allegedly was told by team management to "toughen him up," respondeat superior will lead to team liability.

    As for the players defending Richie, they disgust me.  

    Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

    by TomP on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 02:05:13 PM PST

    •  His team mates disgust me, too. I just wrote... (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jayden, Phoenix Woman, Chi, ER Doc, thomask, TomP

      a long comment about how the meme keeps changing: from Martin as a big baby tattle-tale, to Incognito as a racist with his N-word voicemail(s) to Martin, to this current story (first I've heard of it) that white Incognito was considered more black than the real half-black Martin.
      Incognito has always been a bully & needs to be removed from the sport. And the NFL must eliminate all the hazing traditions, including making lower-paid rookies pay for higher-paid players' extravagent meals, vacations & jet skis. The humiliation of tying up rookies in public & spraying them with Gatorade and who knows what else must also end.
      I hope the NFL takes a hard look at all these abuses.

      I share a birthday with John Lennon and Bo Obama.

      by peacestpete on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 03:16:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ugh. (6+ / 0-)

    The excuses these guys make for such disgusting behavior is pathetic. What they're basically saying is that because he was well-liked Ritchie's behavior is acceptable.

    Grow the fuck up NFL players. You aren't in HS anymore.

  •  So they were saying "Being smart is being White" (7+ / 0-)

    Nice.  It's attitudes like that that make the already incredibly difficult job of teaching inner city kids that much harder.

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White -6.00, -5.18

    by zenbassoon on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 02:35:43 PM PST

    •  If anything, it's even more unfair than that! (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jayden, zenbassoon, Phoenix Woman, Chi, ER Doc

      A white player coming from privilege, like Rex Grossman or Andrew Luck, is sen as a cool novelty in the locker room--that dude could do anything (or nothing!) but he's thrown in with us!  But for a black player it's not seen as benignly.

      You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

      by Rich in PA on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 03:28:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  it could be true in the Dolphin lockerroom... (5+ / 0-)

    but I wonder if the rest of the players in the league agree with the Dolphin players' assessment.  I kind of doubt it. incognito was about to become a tremendous liability and a headache for the entire league.

    A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

    by dougymi on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 02:45:32 PM PST

  •  This gives the lie to the entire parade of bs: (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    svboston, jayden, Phoenix Woman, Chi, thomask
    ESPN analyst and former Dolphins wide receiver Cris Carter has know Mike Pouncey since the player's childhood. Today Carter said on air he recently spoke to Mike Pouncey and the center, who is Incognito's friend, addressed race.

    "They don't feel as if he's a racist, they don't feel as if he picked on Jonathan repeatedly and bullied him, but if they could do it all over again there would be situations that they might change but they’re very, very comfortable with Richie,” Carter said.

    If you're so 'very, very comfortable' with Incognito and his behavior, if he's not racist, if he didn't pick on and didn't bully Martin, then what "situations" were there to change?


    "Trust me... I've been right before." ~ Tea party patriot

    by Calvino Partigiani on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 02:51:00 PM PST

  •  Well hell, I'm black (8+ / 0-)

    and I certainly get it.  I get that these young men on the Dolphin's team are about as ignorant and stupid as Incognito is.

    I have 4 words for them:  

    12 Years A Slave.

    They need to go see it and learn a thing or two.

  •  Wow, this story gets curiouser by the day... (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rich in PA, jayden, Phoenix Woman, Chi, ER Doc

    Coaches supposedly asked Incognito to toughen up Martin.
    Isn't that a coach's job, if that's what they wanted?
    From most accounts, it seems the Dolphin players liked Incognito more than Martin.
    But more sports critics by the day are coming out against any type of hazing that's apparently rampant in the NFL. They were supposed to do a quick investigation of the situation, but rumors are rampant because neither the Dolphins nor the NFL have given info about the investigations.
    At 1st, when it was an issue of harassment, most commentators sided against Martin, stating that he was a big baby tattle-tale. But when racism was injected after voicemail transcripts were released from Incognito calling Martin the N-word, the media dialogue changed. Now it may be back to square 1 if the team's black players consider white Incognito more black than their half-black team-mate Martin.
    In any case, Incognito has a history of bullying throughout his football career & should be gone from the sport.

    I share a birthday with John Lennon and Bo Obama.

    by peacestpete on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 03:02:43 PM PST

  •  can't speak to the issue: i'm green. (0+ / 0-)

    don't hold it against me, but it's just how i am.

    some human behavior turns me green, and there's not a Dramamine in sight.

    waiting for GOAT to speak.

    Addington's perpwalk? TRAILHEAD of accountability for Bush-2 Crimes. @Hugh: There is no Article II power which says the Executive can violate the Constitution.

    by greenbird on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 03:16:36 PM PST

  •  It is starting to look, just a little, like... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    ...Incognito was put up to this by the coaching staff.  His bad (and then some) for saying yes, and for doing it that way--who among us could even talk like that on a dare, or for a cash prize?  But it could be that this wasn't a pure case of one person zeroing in on another for the pure sadistic thrill of it.  As for Incognito as an honorary black guy, I can certainly buy the possibility that a more expansive and less phenotypical notion of blackness would embrace Incognito and reject Martin.

    You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

    by Rich in PA on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 03:20:58 PM PST

    •  Recc'ed for thinking about it. (0+ / 0-)

      I can see the things you've pointed out too, but I have to say it does make me a little sick. Mike Pouncey is Markice's twin. Both of them screwed up with the Hernadez situation and as a Steelers' fan that made me a little sick. I don't see anything wrong with aggression on the field. But you need to learn to control it. I doubt there's an offensive player in the league that isn't a little bit afraid to go up against Polamalu (and even more so c. 3 years ago), but most of them would trust him to babysit their kids. I think a lot of people thought the former about Incognito, but not the latter. You can be a monster on the field without being, well, a monster.

      Ceterum censeo Factionem Republicanam esse delendam.

      by journeyman on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 03:55:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, sticking up for Hernandez... (0+ / 0-) more depraved in my book than anything that happened here. I'm not sure why (after all, sticking up for Hernandez is harmless because his fate is solely in the hands of the criminal justice system, while serially abusing a teammate isn't harmless) but that's my visceral reaction.

        You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

        by Rich in PA on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 04:38:09 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  It's starting to look a lot like... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      the NFL has a hazing issue, period.

      You heard it here first.

      •  I don't think this is hazing (0+ / 0-)

        Hazing is done to newbies as newbies.  Martin, who's now in his second year, wasn't being hazed, he was being bullied-or-toughened (well, both, in someone's twisted thinking).

        You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

        by Rich in PA on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 04:35:22 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I liked what Ricky Williams said (0+ / 0-)

    He was very much like Martin where he had some social anxiety issues and left the game for a while. He said that the NFL is not for everyone.  That really makes a lot of sense. And he didn't say it in a way that demeaned Martin. He said it in more of a I've been there myself way.

    I don't think it's right what Incognito said or did by any stretch of the imagination but it's more of the culture than anyone wants to admit and that's why some teammates are supporting him.

    Follow on twitter @progressiveelec -

    by alpolitics on Wed Nov 06, 2013 at 04:30:43 PM PST

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site